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Turin
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Posted - 2004.02.19 21:16:00 -
[1]
I really want to try PvP at this game.
The few problems I have are this. Since this game is faily established at this point ( people are reaching the outer power curves so to speak )
I assume PvP is NOT meant for newer people ( this tends to be the case in most mmorpgs... the experienced wipe the floor with the noobs )
I also assume ou pretty much NEED a battleship to compete? Can you do it in a crusier?
Last but not least. If you DO need a battleship ( like I assume ) to compete... This is out of range of the avg player who only plays like an hour or 2 a day.
How do you practice? Is there any place you can go and practice PvP against someone and NOT loose your ship/gear? BESIDES the test server?
Basically is, what do you need to compete, and how do you get bewtter without ammounting to huge huge losses.
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Nightfang
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Posted - 2004.02.19 21:17:00 -
[2]
You don't. Join a pirate corp and you will learn... or die and quit the game 
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.02.19 21:19:00 -
[3]
PvP is for anyone - just be prepared to lose ships.
Learn from your mistakes and one day you'll be as good as Eltigre.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
ZzeusS
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Posted - 2004.02.19 21:22:00 -
[4]
 Quote:
I really want to try PvP at this game.
The few problems I have are this. Since this game is faily established at this point ( people are reaching the outer power curves so to speak )
I assume PvP is NOT meant for newer people ( this tends to be the case in most mmorpgs... the experienced wipe the floor with the noobs )
I also assume ou pretty much NEED a battleship to compete? Can you do it in a crusier?
Last but not least. If you DO need a battleship ( like I assume ) to compete... This is out of range of the avg player who only plays like an hour or 2 a day.
How do you practice? Is there any place you can go and practice PvP against someone and NOT loose your ship/gear? BESIDES the test server?
Basically is, what do you need to compete, and how do you get bewtter without ammounting to huge huge losses.
Right now, you need to join a corporation that has some people with pvp experience that can you can train with - with each other.
There are no pvp arenas or anything like that. Maybe get some Frigates or something and play around.
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voodoo
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Posted - 2004.02.19 21:31:00 -
[5]
<?CCP if ($thisShip=="Caldari BS")
echo " id=\"nerf\""; ?>
LMFAO
The Blue Pills Make Me Happy |
Darkrydar
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Posted - 2004.02.19 21:32:00 -
[6]
Come to Curse we'll, I mean you'll get some practice.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.02.19 21:34:00 -
[7]
You could also get on Chaos to test setups - it's a bit limited because a setup that's good on chaos may not work on the live server (most people fail to equip webifiers/warp-jammers on Chaos).
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Riddari
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Posted - 2004.02.19 21:35:00 -
[8]
Practise in frigates.
Read the stats for ammo, the range and damage modifiers.
In a battle you usually need one type of ammo (missiles/crystals etc) to tear down the shields and then switch to another type to eat the armor and hull.
Read a bit about Electronic Warfare, how it works. A popular cruiser for new PVP players is the Blacbird since you have 6 medium slots to configure to be able to scramble and lock people down or to "tank".
Tanking is a method of making your shield last better and longer using hardeners and shield boost modules. For tanking you often need to have capacitor power relays.
Besides Gunnery skills you need high Electronics and Engineering skills simply to be able to fit better weapons and modules.
PVP is as you see, about more than just finding a target, putting some random ammo in and engaging.
¼©¼
a history |
Jarjar
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Posted - 2004.02.19 22:03:00 -
[9]
Quote:
(most people fail to equip webifiers/warp-jammers on Chaos).
Which is stupid.
People equip modal mega neutron blasters, arbalests siege lanchers, XL C5-Ls and brag about winning all the time.
Not even ONE percent of those can really afford that stuff on TQ.
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Skokeh
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Posted - 2004.02.19 22:04:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Skokeh on 19/02/2004 22:07:54
Jump into A2-V27 or surrounding area in the next few days, and I'll teach you some PvP 
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Maud Dib
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Posted - 2004.02.19 22:07:00 -
[11]
you will learn. They will teach you.
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Tibor Ferenc
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Posted - 2004.02.19 22:12:00 -
[12]
Get a group of pals, armor, hull reps and loads of ammo. go somwhere safe for you to fight with your pals. Then you get better with no risk.
Tib
http://mmogcenter.com/tiborsig.jpg
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Turin
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Posted - 2004.02.19 22:13:00 -
[13]
So in other words, as a noob, in a small corp that isnt pvp oriented.. im doomed and I cant pvp cause I will get my ass handed to me.
Im not surprised mind you. Just a little discouraged. Anarchy Online ( the other mmorpg I play ) is exactly the same way. Noobs get smoked. Vets always win. But at least it doesnt cost you everything you own to find that out.
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2004.02.19 22:19:00 -
[14]
If you happen to live in the west coast US, and play evenings, I'd be willing to take you on and train you. I need more BB pilots. You gotta be able to use teamspeak though.
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Riddari
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Posted - 2004.02.19 22:39:00 -
[15]
Quote:
So in other words, as a noob, in a small corp that isnt pvp oriented.. im doomed and I cant pvp cause I will get my ass handed to me.
Nope, just read up on the material you can find here and on EVE-I etc on PVP.
Get to know the skills and modules you see on market.
And as Tibor said, find a friend or two and go somewhere to practise loadouts and settings.
¼©¼
a history |
ProphetGuru
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Posted - 2004.02.19 23:12:00 -
[16]
Quote:
So in other words, as a noob, in a small corp that isnt pvp oriented.. im doomed and I cant pvp cause I will get my ass handed to me.
Im not surprised mind you. Just a little discouraged. Anarchy Online ( the other mmorpg I play ) is exactly the same way. Noobs get smoked. Vets always win. But at least it doesnt cost you everything you own to find that out.
getting your ass handed to you is in and of itself a learning experience no?
No, you will not go out alone with a merlin and own a fleet of apocs, but you will gain experience.
On your corp, why be in a corp that is not pvp oriented when you want to do pvp? Join a corp that will bring you along in the arts of eve space combat.
No it does not have to be a pirate corp.
Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
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Skokeh
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Posted - 2004.02.19 23:18:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Skokeh on 19/02/2004 23:18:49
Quote:
Get a group of pals, armor, hull reps and loads of ammo. go somwhere safe for you to fight with your pals. Then you get better with no risk.
Tib
If you do it with your corp pals then you dont take a security hit when fighting (as long as you dont cause any splash damage to other parties), and so you can shoot/fight anywhere you want
Also, not every Vet is a always a good fighter, they may have their skills in different areas other than gunnery, such as hauling/productions/mining(They may also be complete n00bs...) So even after a short while you will catch up with the less specialist players. And, after a while, and with the right attributes and training scheme, you will become a good PvP character.
It's what set-up's, lay-outs and modules you use, combined with some small tactics you can use in 1v1 that will play a big part of the outcome.
And, in fleet battle, every gun/shield/target jammer, no matter how new, is always welcome to any side 
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2004.02.19 23:53:00 -
[18]
Yeah, shields down sparring with corp mates is a good way to practice. But it often isn't realistic becuase you can't sparr effectively with cruise missles without accidentally blowing up a few cruisers...
Most of the really valuable things I've learned about PvP I learned by getting killed... But if you are a good listener you can avoid this expensive form of learning.
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Shintoko Akahoshi
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Posted - 2004.02.20 00:20:00 -
[19]
Quote:
So in other words, as a noob, in a small corp that isnt pvp oriented.. im doomed and I cant pvp cause I will get my ass handed to me.
You can, but you'll have a much harder time. Not because you're a rookie, but because you're in a corp that isn't PvP oriented. The best thing for learning PvP is to do a lot of it and learn from people who know more. You'll be surprised how little "character sheet skills" you need to be effective in combat. Skills follow a diminishing returns curve, too, so that once you start approaching a million skill points you are in the same skill neighborhood as people with five or six million skill points.
As far as good PvP corps for beginners: Mercenary Frigates are good. I believe Oracle and PIE have some good "university" type programs to teach PvP, too.
There's no meaning to life when you cling only to common sense |
Turin
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Posted - 2004.02.20 00:34:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Turin on 20/02/2004 00:34:44
Quote:
getting your ass handed to you is in and of itself a learning experience no?
No, you will not go out alone with a merlin and own a fleet of apocs, but you will gain experience.
On your corp, why be in a corp that is not pvp oriented when you want to do pvp? Join a corp that will bring you along in the arts of eve space combat.
No it does not have to be a pirate corp.
Yes, but in EvE it gets very expensive getting your ass handed to you. :)
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Tituan
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Posted - 2004.02.20 00:49:00 -
[21]
Like everyone else said join a pvp corp. Seeing as you're fairly new don't even try going for battleship any time soon but pick either cruiser or frig and specialize.
If some of the stats for some of the ELITE frigs in EVE-DB are true (sometimes they end up being botched because they are untested) then gunship class frigs will be a seriouse threat to many cruisers. As such logic would dictate that some elite cruisers will be nasty threats to battleships.
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Corpsicle
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Posted - 2004.02.20 00:51:00 -
[22]
PvP is not just for the high level players by far. The most important thing, expecially for new players, is to have a group of friends to work with. You'd be well advised to get some form of voice comms software like Teamspeak as typing mid battle just doesnt cut it.
Get a few friends, make an alt character with combat related skills, train up for a week or two and you can pirate/fight in a team of frigates in 0.1-0.4 space at very low cost. So long as you pick your targets and between you cover, jamming, web scrambling and stasis webifying you can take on ships much more powerful than yourselves. Just be prepared to die lots but always make sure you have fun regardless.
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Hand over the coffee and no one gets hurt |
Gaius Kador
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Posted - 2004.02.20 00:59:00 -
[23]
It is important to do the grades, thru frig to cruiser into battleship, and familiarise yourself with different weaponry and their functionality. NPC hunting can be a good place to start, not kidding here, you learn the basics of combat.
In PIE we try to ease our new pilots into small scale combat (live stuff ofc, with podding opportunities) using frigates, AFTER they have gone though a period of familiarising themselves with the game mechanics of EVE.
Even if it means just coming along in a missile boat or an EW frig, it gets you experience from which you learn.
To learn PvP, you need to participate in PvP. So I recommend you seek out a PvP corp ;)
Good luck!
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Robotek Hybrid
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Posted - 2004.02.20 02:05:00 -
[24]
Quote:
Yeah, shields down sparring with corp mates is a good way to practice. But it often isn't realistic becuase you can't sparr effectively with cruise missles without accidentally blowing up a few cruisers...
Most of the really valuable things I've learned about PvP I learned by getting killed... But if you are a good listener you can avoid this expensive form of learning.
He is right the forst experiance of pvp u get u will die and u will die and u will keep dying. BUT each time u die u will get better and better until uve died enuff and are kikass.
A lil history of my pvp in list form.(note 85% of my skills are towards combat)
Passiari-Battled mOo in my first cruiser a moa. nonetheless i got wasted so fast i was ****ed for days and confused on how they killed me so dam fast.
Passari-came back in a merlin. Died again (escaped with pod im good at that mostly) realized that they didnt cheat or w/e they just had funky ass mod priate drops that no1 else discovered yet.
My corp then declared war on an ancient pirate corp that id dead now and whose name i forgot- had some encounters and died every time.
Passiari ( again and last time) i got another moa by now and had some basic layouts i played with ( not even all the slots were filled up) attacked mOo with tankCEO and watched him and a moo duke it out at a planet cant remember who won but i hitailed it outta ther ein the end.
from there it was random kiling of npcs and watching and listening to better pvpers talk about layouts and mods.
I then got bored b/c they implemented sentry guns at gates and me and corp went into 0.0 and tried out killing the nva which was fun and by now i was pretty good.
We were then INVITED into the nva for reason beyong me ( after killing them ud think theyd kill us but they invited us instead go figure)
then there were pirates abound as i travelled 0.0 space killing npcs and pirates.While in 0.0 space i could kill npc thoraxes but pc pirates wasted 3 fully fitted mallers and lord knows how many BB's mind u i have yet to actually get a kill.
then comes FE im still in nva and we have some large fleet battles not a single kill but i lost another bb in one of these.
i then quite my corp and enjoy some down time with mining relaxing and getting some isk and a backdrop.
the corp i joined was a t war with curse so im immediately in the **** still no kill but again i lost a few BB's. Then im in the FE where im killing the newly founded PA and passerbys in the region. I finally obtain a scorpian my first battleship a scorpian. I finally get my 1st few kills of my own. then i am off to fountain where after getting some kills in gem im feeling confident about my pvp skills and waste 2 bbs a hauler and a noobship. then FE left fountain ( i got left there lol ) and im using pirate tactics to hurt the small stuff before the 5 or 6 bs's in the system jump to my position. i finally escape with my scorp and head back to base where i am currently at today.
now it sounds lame that i only got my kills really late in the game but i have strong EW skills and i used BB's and a scorpian and they are used for EW so i was always support not a hvy hitter who ussually gets the kills. But nonetheless i got almost 90% of my skills from trying and dying. over and over. Practice makes perfect no matter what u do.
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Shintoko Akahoshi
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Posted - 2004.02.20 03:30:00 -
[25]
Quote:
Yes, but in EvE it gets very expensive getting your ass handed to you. :)
Not necessarily. I use frigates for most of my PvP. Not the most expensive ones, either. If I look around and buy in bulk (I usually buy combat frigates in lots of 5 or 10) I can be set up with a PvP ship for around 200k including all modules and ammunition. Think past battleship lust...
There's no meaning to life when you cling only to common sense |
Mitchman
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Posted - 2004.02.20 11:03:00 -
[26]
The minute you stop worrying more about getting killed than focus on being relaxed and do The Right Thing(tm) in combat, you will be well on your way to being good in PvP. Where most people fail is in the relaxation phase. I'm not saying your heart shouldn't race, but many are in such a hurry to start modules that they make mistakes and get killed because of that.
Take your time, it (usually) won't matter if you activate a module half a second later than the opponent, but you will atleast hit the right keys.
Lastly, don't fight while being drunk. You might feel like you're the ruler of the universe, but it's not true 
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Riddari
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Posted - 2004.02.20 11:19:00 -
[27]
Quote:
focus on being relaxed and do The Right Thing(tm) in combat
Exactly.
The heart racing is just healthy and maybe a tiny sting in the stomach... but don't panic!
I've heard of lots of ships being lost because someone forgot to activate or deactivate a module because the pilot could not think straight.
It's good to feel the rush but don't become a victim of it yourself.
¼©¼
a history |
Marabeth
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Posted - 2004.02.20 11:40:00 -
[28]
Quote:
Lastly, don't fight while being drunk. You might feel like you're the ruler of the universe, but it's not true
I really need that written in large letters over the top of my monitor 
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Trianon Starstealer
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Posted - 2004.02.20 11:47:00 -
[29]
Quote:
Quote:
Lastly, don't fight while being drunk. You might feel like you're the ruler of the universe, but it's not true
I really need that written in large letters over the top of my monitor
LOL......I think I could send this to several people.... after pasting it to my monitor.....
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Alynthir
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Posted - 2004.02.20 11:58:00 -
[30]
If you really want to fight, try to join a corp like Omega in the CA or Tyrell in the SA. Both corps support dedicated frigate and cruiser squads that mix it up on a regular basis. It is very possible to be lethal in this game with less than 350-400k skill points if you spend them the right way. It just depends on what your goals are.
As others have said, confidence and attitude are what will let you come out on top of most PvP situations. Insure your ship, have a good clone and just be ready to do your best. If you go into combat thinking, "OMG!! If I die, I'm gonna lose everything!!", chances are... that you're gonna die.
Stay cool, focus on what's in front of you and don't forget to use all those fancy modules on your ship. It's amazing how many people panic and forget something so simple as to activate thier shield booster.
_____
CLS Civil Affairs Bureau
"Permanent = Today's Plan."
Training: Noob Instructor Level 5  |
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