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BhallSpawn
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Posted - 2007.10.06 13:13:00 -
[1]
Yes, I said it.
I specifically made a caldari only character, I now have a total of 30 million skill points and tried to make a pure racial based character.
But it seems CCP has had it decided to make caldari suck ass in pvp.
Not sure why they did this.
But I'm not very happy...
It seems I'm almost forced to cross train into another race in order to pvp well.
Tried of this crap.
only ships I see as competitive in pvp for caldari is drake\scorpion\rokh\recon ships(everyone has a good one)
That only leaves hawk(sucks)raven(sucks)missles in general(sucks)ferox(sucks)..
need I go on?
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Zosana
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Posted - 2007.10.06 13:14:00 -
[2]
Moa - Blows.
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Alvin Elte
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Posted - 2007.10.06 13:15:00 -
[3]
well you suck since your caldari.
you sir suck balls
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Sirial Soulfly
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Posted - 2007.10.06 13:15:00 -
[4]
On the bright side you can breeze through lvl 4 missions real easy and make some decent isk 
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iiOs
Blood Corsair's
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Posted - 2007.10.06 13:16:00 -
[5]
yea, caldri kinde blow, specily solo
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BB
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000Hunter000
Gallente
Magners Marauders
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Posted - 2007.10.06 13:21:00 -
[6]
Well seeing how u hate ur own racial ships...
Can i have them?
CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
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Death Kill
Caldari
direkte
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Posted - 2007.10.06 13:25:00 -
[7]
OP is 50% right.
Caldari sucks for PVP but is good for PVE.
When it comes to pvp :
Scorpion sucks ass, its supposed to be an all out EW platform but a frig with a damp can disable it.
The raven is a joke. It can tank fairly well but its no match against other bs's 1vs1. Its DPS is crap.
Rhook is ok if you wear a telescope. you cant choose your battles, your enemy wont warp in at 200km
Call to arms!!! |
Boomershoot
Caldari
Insurgent New Eden Tribe
Deus Ex.
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Posted - 2007.10.06 13:26:00 -
[8]
manticore, moa, crow, nighthawk, vulture, chimera, wyvern, leviathan
yeah, it's not much :|
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Forum Warfare - Rank (4) - Level V
Forum Warfare Specialist - Rank (9) - Level III
Armor Flame Compensation - Rank (5) - Level IV |
maCH'EttE
Veto.
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Posted - 2007.10.06 13:30:00 -
[9]
How about the Crow? I also like the Cerberus quite a lot, and looking into potential Eagle setups (I don't fly one yet) it looks fairly promising, as does the Nighthawk. I just finished training for Recons and haven't had a chance to play with them yet, but from what I've seen, they can be extremely effective.
Caldari do suck for solo work though and it would be nice if this were looked at, but I don't imagine it will be.
 Originally by: Devil Hanzo (ISD)
I got pwned! 
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Snake Doctor
Paradox v2.0
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Posted - 2007.10.06 13:33:00 -
[10]
Uhhh----
Rokh, fully fitted, decent pvp.
Raven, not stupidly fitted, great pvp support.
Scorp, Awesome fleet support.
Caracal- learn how to use it, it's a good, cheap pvp'r
Moa - blows
If you know what you're doing, you can easily take a Domi in a Hawk or Harpy. I killed a Brutix in a Hawk a while back.
What we really need to get you is a t2 shuttle.
Rifter Flight Manual! |
iiOs
Blood Corsair's
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Posted - 2007.10.06 13:35:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Snake Doctor
Uhhh----
Rokh, fully fitted, decent pvp.
Raven, not stupidly fitted, great pvp support.
Scorp, Awesome fleet support.
Caracal- learn how to use it, it's a good, cheap pvp'r
Moa - blows
If you know what you're doing, you can easily take a Domi in a Hawk or Harpy. I killed a Brutix in a Hawk a while back.
What we really need to get you is a t2 shuttle.
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Miss Ore
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Posted - 2007.10.06 13:39:00 -
[12]
Why dont you train Gallente has your second race choise just like I did? 
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Boomershoot
Caldari
Insurgent New Eden Tribe
Deus Ex.
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Posted - 2007.10.06 13:44:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Miss Ore
Why dont you train Gallente has your second race choise just like I did?
umh, lol
keep seeing caldari ppl training for gallente, may be that gallente pvp rocks with drones
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Forum Warfare - Rank (4) - Level V
Forum Warfare Specialist - Rank (9) - Level III
Armor Flame Compensation - Rank (5) - Level IV |
Death Kill
Caldari
direkte
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Posted - 2007.10.06 13:55:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Snake Doctor
Rokh, fully fitted, decent pvp.
Yeah from a distant.
Quote:
Raven, not stupidly fitted, great pvp support.
Support? You mean your missiles will hit before your gang kills primary?
Quote:
Scorp, Awesome fleet support.
And thats that.
Quote:
Caracal- learn how to use it, it's a good, cheap pvp'r
caracal is cool.
Quote:
If you know what you're doing, you can easily take a Domi in a Hawk or Harpy. I killed a Brutix in a Hawk a while back.
What we really need to get you is a t2 shuttle.
I dont think its you knowing what you are doing. Its more the pilots you fought being morons.
Call to arms!!! |
Arana Tellen
Gallente
The Blackguard Wolves
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.10.06 14:03:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Death Kill
Quote:
Raven, not stupidly fitted, great pvp support.
Support? You mean your missiles will hit before your gang kills primary?
Support, as in anti support in this case perhaps?
---------------------------------
Core 2 Duo E4300 1.8ghz @ 3ghz, 2GB Gskill DDR2 5400 @ 800mhh 4-4-4-12, Abit fatality mATX F-I90HD @ 334mhz, 8800GTS 320mb
2x250GB 7200.10s Raid 0, Vista 64 Home. |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.06 14:04:00 -
[16]
Caldari is fine, there are a few minor ship specific issues[caracal needs another low slot, moa and ferox need more turrets, eagle needs another role(but not more dps), and some general issues [siege/ham PG use is too high, missiles in general move too slowly], but other than that there isnt really anything bad about the ships, it mainly comes down to people who think they can pvp in the same way they pve, or that dont understand the power of hit points and the power of electronic warfare.
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Zaxslann
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Posted - 2007.10.06 14:11:00 -
[17]
Hey, it could be worse, at least you didn't pick an ugly Achura face.
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Bosie
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.10.06 14:25:00 -
[18]
Caldari ships tend to have set roles that they play very well. Yes this tends to not include DPS machine but the roles they do play they excel at. Flying Caldari is like playing the cleric in D&D.
"There is a forgotten, nay almost forbidden word,
which means more to me than any other.
That word is EN |
Stitcher
Caldari
legion of qui
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.06 14:29:00 -
[19]
used properly, Caldari ships can rule the field. The operative section of that statement, however, was "used properly."
There's definitely a place for hardcore tanking vessels in any fleet - you want something that can soak up the firepower and buy time for its friends to do some real damage. The Caldari are possibly some of the best damage sponges in the game, well able to soak up ridiculous quantities of firepower before going down, if outfitted properly. I've seen drakes easily handle the combined firepower of multiple command ships - it took the arrival of a carrier to break its tank.
it's my firm opinion that no particular race "sucks" too hard next to their counterparts. Sure, the Amarrians have damage output issues, and the Caldari have a problem with delayed DPS, but they compensate by having the tougher resistance tanks.
The trick is to learn what works, then do it as hard as you possible can.
-
The game is not the problem.
The problem is that you are not adapting to the game.
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Tommiles
Gallente
valiant shadows
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Posted - 2007.10.06 14:35:00 -
[20]
caldari ships suck, are you on ***** BhallSpawn ?
its amarr ships that suck maybe you need to go try them out and you will find out that caldari ships are not that bad
i had lots of fun doing pvp with them
Originally by: CCP Prism X
If nobody buys ISK then this wouldn't be an issue, but sadly there will always be people who fancy taking the shortest route to eternal n00bness and pay real money for it to boot. |
DJ P
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Posted - 2007.10.06 14:36:00 -
[21]
One advice.
Do not go to PVP with your Caldari ship fitted for ratting. After that Caldari has some very good specialised ships.
Especialy Eagle and Drake and must for roaming cheap cost gangs.
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Brackun
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.10.06 14:45:00 -
[22]
I came to the conclusion a while ago that Caldari is for PvE and Gallente is for PvP, but that's thinking in absolute. I can have some pretty decent 1v1's in my Raven though, so it's not all that bad.
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Phoenix Lord
The Arrow Project
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.10.06 14:55:00 -
[23]
TBH the only race that is really hurting right now is Amarr. Every other race kick ass easily, if the pilot knows how to fly the ship.
You CANNOT say Ravens are bad in PVP... i have guys in my corp that are crazy with them. Maybe theyre not as good for large fleets, due to the missile travel time, but they can dominate in small gangs. You guys can fit a tank in the mids and damage mods in the lows, gallente cant :(
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Zana Kito
Antares Fleet Yards
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.06 15:00:00 -
[24]
Eve is not balanced around 1v1 pvp. No, it's true!
This is like gallente whining about how drone ships are useless in fleet fights.. or blasters are useless cos people can kite them.
Caldari are the best in the pve game. They perform great in gangs and fleets. Take a look at major alliance killboard and you'll see a lot of ships involved in fleet ops are caldari. Just because some of you want to be great at everything does not mean caldari suck..  |
Lea Re
Dirty Labs
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Posted - 2007.10.06 15:04:00 -
[25]
omg, yet another 'caldari suck' thread
which is not the case. my first char was gallente/minnie. then i had a break from eve, sold the char. after .5 year i reactivated my caldari alt. my first thought after pvping a bit was... 'omg, caldari suck big time'
over time i learned how to use caldari ships. they arent best at pvp but they do not suck
raven - when in gang, start shooting at secondary instead of primary if you know your missiles won't hit
caracal - awesome cheap ship. paperthin tank but few damping caracals are deadly
rokh - great 250 sniper
rook - small gang beauty. just fit racial jammers
drake - amazing tank. with 1k dps tanked on lowest resist without any faction gear you can't complain
crow - a hell of an inty
nighthawk - gotta love it
and then youve got moa and eagle
oh... and cerberus. i hate pvping in it but with 2 cargo expanders it has got over 1k m3 cargo space making it the most beatiful small low sec hauler ever ;)
if you think caldari suck at pvp, look at what burn eden does with ravens
and to someone mentioning that amarr suck at pvp: watch cown videos
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Phoenix Lord
The Arrow Project
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.10.06 15:06:00 -
[26]
Never said amarr sucked at PVP. Just said theyre hurting the most right now, as in its harder for them than every one else. But still possible.
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Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.06 15:10:00 -
[27]
Caldaris and missiles are good at pvp.
The last alliance tournament has shown it.
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maCH'EttE
Veto.
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Posted - 2007.10.06 15:14:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Yakia TovilToba
The last alliance tournament has shown it.
Not exactly the best comparison to 'real' PVP.
Originally by: Devil Hanzo (ISD)
I got pwned!
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Snake Doctor
Paradox v2.0
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Posted - 2007.10.06 15:43:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Death Kill
Originally by: Snake Doctor
Rokh, fully fitted, decent pvp.
Quote:
Yeah from a distant.
No, you can fit 8 of anything you like in those slots. Use them wiseley.
Quote:
Raven, not stupidly fitted, great pvp support.
Quote:
Support? You mean your missiles will hit before your gang kills primary?
I've had some very successful fights with a raven. No one says you have to put missiles in every slot.
Quote:
Scorp, Awesome fleet support.
Quote:
And thats that.
You must not fly one much. Scorpions can act as logistics bs's in the best way with a good fit.
Quote:
Caracal- learn how to use it, it's a good, cheap pvp'r
caracal is cool.
Quote:
If you know what you're doing, you can easily take a Domi in a Hawk or Harpy. I killed a Brutix in a Hawk a while back.
What we really need to get you is a t2 shuttle.
Quote:
I dont think its you knowing what you are doing. Its more the pilots you fought being morons.
Hrmm. The last one sounds like a dig at me, but I can assure you I know what I'm doing + the other pilot might be a moron. Always a good combination to have.
It just sounds a lot like you asked us for an opinion by posting and just don't like the answers you're getting.
Rifter Flight Manual! |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Please Enter Password
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Posted - 2007.10.06 15:52:00 -
[30]
Like they say, it's not the size of the missile that counts, but how you use it
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Mictain Orgasie
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Posted - 2007.10.06 15:54:00 -
[31]
i love how noobs or ppl who never used caldari chars in pvp or even never pvped, claim that they are fine
get a clue, then comeback
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Susan Acid
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Posted - 2007.10.06 16:04:00 -
[32]
How come it took 30 million sp until you came to this conclusion?Don't you read the forums?did you miss the 5 whines a week about Caldari not being very good at PvP?
The most important question is:
Why did you pick Caldari in the 1st place?
I'm 100% serious when I say that CCP should change the description of Caldari in the Char creation screen because it's misleading.
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MITSUK0
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Posted - 2007.10.06 16:04:00 -
[33]
Edited by: MITSUK0 on 06/10/2007 16:05:01
The game enviroment constantly changes, how things are at the moment means that the caldari damage based ships can not compete. However there ewar ships are still totally awesome and they have a strong inty/dictor. (I remember when the raven was omgpwn but the game is different now)
If you do not want to fly support or tackling roles then yeh maybe your not happy. It is the same with ALL mmo's, everyone wants to be dealing the most damage but not everyone can.
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Helluin
Caldari
Stimulus
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Posted - 2007.10.06 16:06:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Mictain Orgasie
i love how noobs or ppl who never used caldari chars in pvp or even never pvped, claim that they are fine
get a clue, then comeback
Hi. I fly Caldari and Amarr ships in small gang warfare. Some say this makes me a masochist, I say you're stupid.
Rokh - Excellent ship for sniping or as a medium range blaster platform.
Raven - Learn2fly if you think this ship sucks. If you use siege, engage at close range and your missile velocity won't really matter. If you use cruise, engage at medium range and see above. You only have problems if you engage at 120km+.
Cerberus - Good ship, a bit supplanted by the Sacrilege now, but still has it's uses.
Caracal - One of the best T1 cruisers out there. Damps+extender+ precision light missiles make you an excellent gang ship.
Drake - You have to think outside the box to make this thing more useful other than a ****ty bait ship, but it really is a wonderful ship once you do.
Eagle - Wannabe Deimos or one of the best sniper ships out there.
Caldari have a few issues, but are by in large just fine. Missiles aren't the best for large fleet warfare, but Caldari certainly offers enough support to make their ships worthwhile.
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Fara'a
Pringles Inc.
STYX.
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Posted - 2007.10.06 16:25:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Snake Doctor
Uhhh----
...
If you know what you're doing, you can easily take a Domi in a Hawk or Harpy. I killed a Brutix in a Hawk a while back.
...
i sir dare you to kill my alt's domi, i'm my self a ****** when it comes to gallente ships. if you kill it with a hawk or a harpy i'll give you one fully fitted.
"Those that care not for the sting of the Scorpion are either reckless or stupid. And usually dead." |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.10.06 16:25:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Helluin
Originally by: Mictain Orgasie
i love how noobs or ppl who never used caldari chars in pvp or even never pvped, claim that they are fine
get a clue, then comeback
Hi. I fly Caldari and Amarr ships in small gang warfare. Some say this makes me a masochist, I say you're stupid.
Rokh - Excellent ship for sniping or as a medium range blaster platform.
Raven - Learn2fly if you think this ship sucks. If you use siege, engage at close range and your missile velocity won't really matter. If you use cruise, engage at medium range and see above. You only have problems if you engage at 120km+.
Cerberus - Good ship, a bit supplanted by the Sacrilege now, but still has it's uses.
Caracal - One of the best T1 cruisers out there. Damps+extender+ precision light missiles make you an excellent gang ship.
Drake - You have to think outside the box to make this thing more useful other than a ****ty bait ship, but it really is a wonderful ship once you do.
Eagle - Wannabe Deimos or one of the best sniper ships out there.
Caldari have a few issues, but are by in large just fine. Missiles aren't the best for large fleet warfare, but Caldari certainly offers enough support to make their ships worthwhile.
Does your post consist entirely of 'they're ok, because I'm uber and no one else knows how to fly'?
Rokh I'm happy with. Niche role, but good at it. Or would be, if it wasn't for that stupid locking range cap.
Ravens in gangs? Sorry, I'm not sure where you're coming from. I've always found 'em to be seriously hampered, except in situations where almost any other BS would do the same thing, better.
Drake can do nice things, I'll agree, but again, better than the alternatives? What it's really good at is a passive tank. It's normal tank, especially when fitting a MWD is seriously limited.
Caracal, I don't agree. They're cheap and cheerful, yes, but horrifically outclassed by vexor, thorax and rupture. Can't really comment on the ammarrian options. They're made of tinfoil, and have a poor cap - they make lovely RSD platforms, but that's about it.
Eagle? Yeah, ok. Best sniper, but is still competing in the same arena as battleships, and doing a worse job of it.
At the moment, Caldari are totally awesome at midrange combat - missiles are excellent midrange weapons, and are also effective at short and long ranges - this was admirably demonstrated in the PvP tournament. They can shield tank pretty well, but at cost of their mobility, and their ability to restrict someone elses mobility. Again, the Pvp tournament demonstrated this.
Railguns, the caldari snipers are good at it. They suffer somewhat, on anything sub battleship, from being in the same arena as larger ships - eagles or ferox trading fire with a battleship is just screwed. But they're generally 'ok' if a bit niche. (Well, ferox smells, but I don't think anyone's disputing that)
They work great if you have someone tackling, and you do a tank/gank fit. Problem is, if you've got the support you need to pull that off, then you're probably _still_ better off with a different ship.
IMO Caldari are really good at two things. Sadly, neither of them are actually relevant to 'real' PvP in EVE at the moment.
Maybe it will be, but at the moment the vast majority of fights are close range due to gate jumpins, warp to zero, and bubble and warp radiuses, and they tend to involve fast mobile ships. Neither of these are things Caldari ships are good at.
--
Crane needs more grid
249km locking?
GMP and TNP |
TylerJames
Silentium.
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Posted - 2007.10.06 16:35:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Zosana
Moa - Blows.
Poor Moa.....no one likes you but me. I think it is a great ship fitted right.
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maCH'EttE
Veto.
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Posted - 2007.10.06 16:35:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Mictain Orgasie
i love how noobs or ppl who never used caldari chars in pvp or even never pvped, claim that they are fine
get a clue, then comeback
They are fine. They could certainly be better and you generally have to make sacrifices to make them work effectively (like no tackling), but they do work and very well in smaller gangs.
I find myself towards the top of most killmails and at the top of many. If setup right, they can put out fairly nice DPS and have a good tank. I tend not to fit 'cookie cutter' setups to my Caldari ships, and I'm pretty happy with the way they perform.
Originally by: Devil Hanzo (ISD)
I got pwned!
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Krows
Resource Reallocators Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.10.06 17:15:00 -
[39]
I'd say the real solution is quit looking for the end all be all race and be content flying a race that isn't inherently unbalanced. This kind of behavior is the crap that pervades WoW (U KAN'T WiN UN3LSS U H43v teh b3st OF EVEERYTING!!!!)You'd be amazed the stuff you can do thinking outside the box and avoiding 0.0 blob warfare.
30 million skillpoints? I think you're lying.
What I say here... does not reflect on my corp or alliance. |
Sewotai Didthair
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Posted - 2007.10.06 17:18:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Bosie
Flying Caldari is like playing the cleric in D&D.
More like playing a fighter, no?
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.10.06 17:25:00 -
[41]
No. more like Cledaric.
Back to Caldari. Honestly, armor tankers are kings in this game at the moment. If you are smart, don't fly Caldari or fly Caldari in fights that you can win.
The problem with Caldari is too many people are playing theory online.
---------
Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Kali is for KArebearLIng.
I 100% agree with Avon.
Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game. |
Rilder
Caldari
THC LTD
Dogs of War.
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Posted - 2007.10.06 17:31:00 -
[42]
Its the meat in the seat not the seat of the meat.
Doesn't really apply in eve in the sense that were in pod but its meaning still holds ground.
--
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Cutie Chaser
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.10.06 17:52:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Cutie Chaser on 06/10/2007 17:56:19
Quote:
Back to Caldari. Honestly, armor tankers are kings in this game at the moment. If you are smart, don't fly Caldari or fly Caldari in fights that you can win.
The problem with Caldari is too many people are playing theory online.
The problem with using midslots for your tank is that every Caldari pilot in the world fills every available midslot with a tanking mod, and then whines because they can't fit e-war.
Christ people, skimp on that third hardener and fit a damned Remote Sensor Dampner. Every ship you fly doesn't have to be armoured like the damned Death Star.
***
Thats a Templar, the amarr fighter. Its a combat drone used by carriers. |
Hasak Rain
Amarr
|
Posted - 2007.10.06 18:07:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Cutie Chaser
Edited by: Cutie Chaser on 06/10/2007 17:56:19
Quote:
Back to Caldari. Honestly, armor tankers are kings in this game at the moment. If you are smart, don't fly Caldari or fly Caldari in fights that you can win.
The problem with Caldari is too many people are playing theory online.
The problem with using midslots for your tank is that every Caldari pilot in the world fills every available midslot with a tanking mod, and then whines because they can't fit e-war.
Christ people, skimp on that third hardener and fit a damned Remote Sensor Dampner. Every ship you fly doesn't have to be armoured like the damned Death Star.
This is so true it isn't even funny. It is similar to Raven Mission runners whining about how far apart the Acceleration Gates used to be and how slow it was to get to them because they didn't want to fit in Afterburner in the Mids.
For mission running and PvE. I actually prefer the Abaddon over the Raven. The only thing a Raven does better is range. Abaddon will kill faster and tank just as well, if not better than a Raven. The only time I would prefer a Raven is if I am doing something like "Silence the Informant" or "Stop the Thief" where all the rats are in little groups far apart.
For PvP, i never understood why people roll Caldari characters and then whine when they can't solo as well in their ships when there are much better options for that.
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.10.06 18:18:00 -
[45]
Okay. If you guys are so rigid with your opinion, how about this?
 Here is an idea. Why not make all warp disruption, and web modules low slots
CCP, please do that and I am sure there won't be any Caldari player crying. Other races would have very balanced ships because their ships have many low slots. Almost 8 lows for battleships? I am sure they can sacrifice a slot or 2 for tackling.
Sounds very fair to me.
---------
Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Kali is for KArebearLIng.
I 100% agree with Avon.
Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game. |
Zosana
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Posted - 2007.10.06 18:20:00 -
[46]
I'd rather they create high slot versions of web and/or scram. That would make utility highs more useful as well.
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F90OEX
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Posted - 2007.10.06 18:26:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Stitcher
used properly, Caldari ships can rule the field. The operative section of that statement, however, was "used properly."
Problem is most people who fly Caldari ships don't know how to fit or use them the way they where intended in PvE or PvP Ops. Most times its fit it with anything and hope for the best kinda mentality.
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Grapez
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Posted - 2007.10.06 18:50:00 -
[48]
Autobus
Scene: Urban. Sky is overcast, and it is clearly Fall. Two males, a Gallente and a Caldari, stand by a bustop, the bench is covered in brown and orange leaves. Occasional gust of wind. Each wears a dark overcoat. Caldari is gesturing wildly, while Gallente keeps hands in his pockets and watches.
Caldari: ...and then we totally owned you guys at Luminaire. Oh man, you guys are lucky that you figured out drones. That's right, lucky! You guys are such liberal, democratic puzzies! If only you were so noble and brave as Tovil-Toba, you might have won back then--
Gallente (unamused): Uh-huh.
Caldari: --but now, man, whoooh! You're just lucky those drones saved your...
Caldari continues. Gallente notices two people approaching from behind Caldari. One is a male Amarr, in a grey sweatshirt and covered in gold-colored jewelry, watches etc. The other is a female Minmattar, in a sequin bikini. Because it's Fall. Gallente c.0cks is head around Caldari to greet the two
Amarr: Hey, you ready for the op?
Gallente (nonchalantly): Yeah, the rest should be here any moment.
Caldari: --and missiles can do all types of-- Oh, cool! An op! Mind if I come along? I could bring my Scorpion.
Gallente (raises a hand out of his pocket): Actually, I'm going to be in a recon, so we've kind of got EW covered.
Amarr: And any--
Caldari: Well, I've also got a Raven. Lots of range on a Raven. Damage too.
Minmatar snickers
Caldari: What?
Amarr (diplomatically): It's just that, well.. Do you have a Rohk? We could use some rails, for sniping, and stuff..
Caldari: A Rohk? Man, those things are expensive, and slow as Hell. I could buy a Ferox.
Amarr: It's just that we're supposed to be leaving soon, and well.. Can you fly a logistics ship?
Caldari (offended, loudly): A WHAT? Are you serious?
Gallente notices something down the street and takes his hands out of his pockets
Gallente: We've got to get going. You guys ready?
Amarr: Yeah, hopefully my Curse can keep up.
Minmatar (to Caldari): I was thinking of running a mission a little later, maybe, if there's time. You want to join me if I go?
Caldari (cooly, but feigned): No, that's alright. I have to.. do some research. Invention you know. It's pretty fun.
Minmatar: K.
A bus filled with drunken Vagabond and Ishtar pilots pull up. The doors open and loud revelry is heard inside. Gallente boards, followed by Minmatar and Amarr. Gallente flashes a smile out to Caldari from the window. Caldari returns the smile, and places his hands in his pockets. The bus pulls away, and the wind kicks up.
@º¬íí-T«+ºH
for all your political humor needs |
Hasak Rain
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.10.06 18:51:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Okay. If you guys are so rigid with your opinion, how about this?
Here is an idea. Why not make all warp disruption, and web modules low slots
CCP, please do that and I am sure there won't be any Caldari player crying. Other races would have very balanced ships because their ships have many low slots. Almost 8 lows for battleships? I am sure they can sacrifice a slot or 2 for tackling.
Sounds very fair to me.
Because both Armor tankers and shield tankers have trade offs. Armor tanks have less mid slots which mean after a speed module and probably an injector, you are left with one or two slots left for EW.
Shield tanks can fit more EW even with their tanks in tact. However, they have to decide how much of each they want to fit. Usually that means no Warp Disrupter or Web.
There are advantages and disadvantages to both types. Caldari whiners crying about their lack of solo PvP options should have done their research before picking their race only "because the race description at the Char Creation sounded cool."
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Helluin
Caldari
Stimulus
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Posted - 2007.10.06 19:00:00 -
[50]
Originally by: James Lyrus
Does your post consist entirely of 'they're ok, because I'm uber and no one else knows how to fly'?
Rokh I'm happy with. Niche role, but good at it. Or would be, if it wasn't for that stupid locking range cap.
Ravens in gangs? Sorry, I'm not sure where you're coming from. I've always found 'em to be seriously hampered, except in situations where almost any other BS would do the same thing, better.
Drake can do nice things, I'll agree, but again, better than the alternatives? What it's really good at is a passive tank. It's normal tank, especially when fitting a MWD is seriously limited.
Caracal, I don't agree. They're cheap and cheerful, yes, but horrifically outclassed by vexor, thorax and rupture. Can't really comment on the ammarrian options. They're made of tinfoil, and have a poor cap - they make lovely RSD platforms, but that's about it.
Eagle? Yeah, ok. Best sniper, but is still competing in the same arena as battleships, and doing a worse job of it.
At the moment, Caldari are totally awesome at midrange combat - missiles are excellent midrange weapons, and are also effective at short and long ranges - this was admirably demonstrated in the PvP tournament. They can shield tank pretty well, but at cost of their mobility, and their ability to restrict someone elses mobility. Again, the Pvp tournament demonstrated this.
Railguns, the caldari snipers are good at it. They suffer somewhat, on anything sub battleship, from being in the same arena as larger ships - eagles or ferox trading fire with a battleship is just screwed. But they're generally 'ok' if a bit niche. (Well, ferox smells, but I don't think anyone's disputing that)
They work great if you have someone tackling, and you do a tank/gank fit. Problem is, if you've got the support you need to pull that off, then you're probably _still_ better off with a different ship.
IMO Caldari are really good at two things. Sadly, neither of them are actually relevant to 'real' PvP in EVE at the moment.
Maybe it will be, but at the moment the vast majority of fights are close range due to gate jumpins, warp to zero, and bubble and warp radiuses, and they tend to involve fast mobile ships. Neither of these are things Caldari ships are good at.
I think our difference in opinion is grounded in definitions of "gangs" and "pvp"
Gangs are not 100v100, and PVP is not the 300v300 fleet battles that seem so common. When everyone's lagged to death it doesn't matter what ship you're flying.
Anyway, onto the ships. The Raven works just fine in gang warfare especially if you're facing heavier gangs. Good dps(800+), and an excellent tank, or an excellent e-war boat, your choice.
We must have different experiences with the Caracal then. For about 6mil ISK you can get a ship that does around 250-300dps, 3 damps, and a somewhat decent passive tank.
The Eagle doesn't compete with battleships at all. If you're trying to take out a BS with an eagle, you're doing it wrong. Take these into a fleet fight and hose any hostile support on the field.
We agree that Caldari are not solo ships, everyone knows that. But in gangs they are NOT useless.
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dor amwar
Foundation
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.06 20:05:00 -
[51]
Edited by: dor amwar on 06/10/2007 20:08:35
Originally by: iiOs
yea, caldri kinde blow, specily solo
thought solo was dead ? caldari are fine.
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cal nereus
Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.10.06 20:12:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Zaxslann
Hey, it could be worse, at least you didn't pick an ugly Achura face.
Quoted for truth. 
---
Join BH-DL |
Jezze Flay
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Posted - 2007.10.06 20:51:00 -
[53]
Originally by: BhallSpawn
Yes, I said it.
I specifically made a caldari only character, I now have a total of 30 million skill points and tried to make a pure racial based character.
But it seems CCP has had it decided to make caldari suck ass in pvp.
Not sure why they did this.
But I'm not very happy...
It seems I'm almost forced to cross train into another race in order to pvp well.
Tried of this crap.
only ships I see as competitive in pvp for caldari is drake\scorpion\rokh\recon ships(everyone has a good one)
That only leaves hawk(sucks)raven(sucks)missles in general(sucks)ferox(sucks)..
need I go on?
Hmm, it only takes me a few million SPs to decide whether i am going to like a race or not.
Would you do me a favor? Would you now train 30 million in Amarr and let me know if they suck too? I will get back to you on this in two years. Thanks.
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firepup82
The Ankou
The Reckoning.
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Posted - 2007.10.06 21:47:00 -
[54]
Originally by: BhallSpawn
Yes, I said it.
I specifically made a caldari only character, I now have a total of 30 million skill points and tried to make a pure racial based character.
But it seems CCP has had it decided to make caldari suck ass in pvp.
Not sure why they did this.
But I'm not very happy...
It seems I'm almost forced to cross train into another race in order to pvp well.
Tried of this crap.
only ships I see as competitive in pvp for caldari is drake\scorpion\rokh\recon ships(everyone has a good one)
That only leaves hawk(sucks)raven(sucks)missles in general(sucks)ferox(sucks)..
need I go on?
Maybe its just you. I'm fine in a nighthawk or vulture.
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Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.10.06 22:00:00 -
[55]
NERF AMARR! 
Originally by: Akita T
No, it's a trap ! I can tell from some of the modules and from seeing quite a few traps in my time...
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Lady Caeser
Open Fist of Castallus
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Posted - 2007.10.06 22:06:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Grapez
Autobus
Scene: Urban. Sky is overcast, and it is clearly Fall. Two males, a Gallente and a Caldari, stand by a bustop, the bench is covered in brown and orange leaves. Occasional gust of wind. Each wears a dark overcoat. Caldari is gesturing wildly, while Gallente keeps hands in his pockets and watches.
Dude, you touched my soul
--------------------------------------
What are you looking at?
-------------------------------------- |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.10.06 22:47:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Helluin
I think our difference in opinion is grounded in definitions of "gangs" and "pvp"
Gangs are not 100v100, and PVP is not the 300v300 fleet battles that seem so common. When everyone's lagged to death it doesn't matter what ship you're flying.
OK. In my opinion, a gang is from 2 to about 10 ships. The sort of numbers you can pull together yelling in corp chat (or alliance if revelant) 'hey, does anyone want to go pewpew right ... now ish'
Quote:
Anyway, onto the ships. The Raven works just fine in gang warfare especially if you're facing heavier gangs. Good dps(800+), and an excellent tank, or an excellent e-war boat, your choice.
With T2 sieges, and 3 BCS the raven does 594 DPS + 100 or so from 5 medium drones. Use CN torps, that goes up to 683. So, yes, nearly 800. Of course, this assumes entirely that you're shooting ships with >400m signature. With a single, 36% target painting, you can put a 300m signature ship, to this size, which will cover the majority of battlecruiser sized ships too.
Fitting T2 torps is tough, but doable, assuming you don't want to be putting anything else in those highslots, like reps or neuts.
Cruise missiles on the other hand, is noticably less - 6x cruise II, 3 BCS you're looking at 420dps + 100 from drones.
Now, that's ruling out armour tanks, because the above is with 3 ballistic control IIs fitted.
BUt ... ok. I find that I'm then really having problems with filling the rest of my mids with tank - MWD II is a pig to fit with sieges, and XL booster and heavy injector are real pain. EWAR fits fairly easy I suppose, but I still feel edgy flying an untanked T2 raven.
Quote:
We must have different experiences with the Caracal then. For about 6mil ISK you can get a ship that does around 250-300dps, 3 damps, and a somewhat decent passive tank.
6mil isks, 250dps? Please, give me a hint here. I keep playing with the Caracal, because I do actually like it as a ship, and either end up concluding that MWD + HAMs just doesn't work, because it's hurting so badly for powergrid.
OR that heavies just don't do enough damage - I just about get to 250 dps (ok +2 hobgoblin drones) with T2 heavies, and T2 BCS. But that's hardly a 6mil caracal any more :). And you still don't get an LSE on there, with an MWD - damps, yeah, they'll fit.
Quote:
The Eagle doesn't compete with battleships at all. If you're trying to take out a BS with an eagle, you're doing it wrong. Take these into a fleet fight and hose any hostile support on the field.
We agree that Caldari are not solo ships, everyone knows that. But in gangs they are NOT useless.
I agree entirely. They're not useless. However, I'm also of the opinon that in every situation where you have enough support to make a Caldari ship 'not suck' (because I think we agree, solo + caldari is just not a good idea) you have other options, from other races, which do the job better.
--
Crane needs more grid
249km locking?
GMP and TNP |
Akkarin Pagan
Minmatar
Raddick Explorations
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2007.10.07 00:16:00 -
[58]
What people really need to do is stop looking at EVE like it's one of the many fantasy RPGs out there. By saying, "I'm going to be Caldari only." you limit yourself so much. Saying that about any race limits you.
CCP saw fit to allow you to train and be as good as any other pilot in any ship in the game. Of course you're likely to be better at your own races ships, than any others, but myself, I can fly all T1 battlecruisers. Of course I'm better in a 'cane or 'clone (T2 medium projectiles), but I can jump into any of the other 6 BCs and perform to a similar standard across them all.
Caldari sucks at solo pvp. This is a known fact. Stop trying to force a slow long range ship to do something it was never intended to do, and cross train to another race.
I saw the changes to Khanid ships. I liked what I saw, and I can fly the Malediction. It's my favorite inty for fleet. I could have sat there and struggled with a Stiletto (I know that they are good, I just don't get on with them) or carried on flying a Claw with no web. If I'd taken that route I could have come on the Eve-o forums and complained that Minmatar inties suck. The Claw needs another med slot, the Stiletto another high slot. Instead, I saw the Malediction, and thought "Yes, that ship does exactly what I want in an inty, so I'll train to use it". 3 weeks later, I have a Malediction with T2 rockets on it, and really enjoy flying it.
This has also given me access to the Heretic, so now in big fleets, I have an effective camping dictor (which doesn't hurt too much when it gets popped), and I can use the Sabre for roaming.
More cross training people less whining. The only reason to spec entirely in your own race is to RP! Caldari do their role great. Their role is not solo wtfbbqpwn, don't try and make them such.
In closing, as the great Sarmaul said "You are not your ship!"
Akkarin
Hopefully the mods won't play with this one
<3 - Immy
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Sorja
E X O D U S
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.10.07 00:58:00 -
[59]
I'm Caldari only, way past 40mill SPs and I think Caldari are absolutely great at PvE.
That is all.
The wheel will turn though, Caldari were once great, like Amarr was overpowered for long (longest bug in the gaming industry with megapulses ).
For now, consider flying Caldari for PvP a challenge.
Some ok ships (none outstanding) and the cheapest HACs
____________________
A gentleman is someone who can play the bagpipe, but who does not. |
murder one
Gallente
Blood Corsair's
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Posted - 2007.10.07 01:24:00 -
[60]
Originally by: BhallSpawn
Yes, I said it.
I specifically made a caldari only character, I now have a total of 30 million skill points and tried to make a pure racial based character.
But it seems CCP has had it decided to make caldari suck ass in pvp.
Not sure why they did this.
But I'm not very happy...
It seems I'm almost forced to cross train into another race in order to pvp well.
Tried of this crap.
only ships I see as competitive in pvp for caldari is drake\scorpion\rokh\recon ships(everyone has a good one)
That only leaves hawk(sucks)raven(sucks)missles in general(sucks)ferox(sucks)..
need I go on?
You suck. I love my Caldari buddies when they fly in gangs with me. It's awesome.
[07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now?
[07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2
Fleet Combat Ships |
Frothgar
Caldari
coracao ardente
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.07 02:00:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Frothgar on 07/10/2007 02:00:45
Ok, so I was originally caldari and switched over to Amarr. To this day tho my favorite fleet support ship is the raven.
Load it up with faction cruise missiles, 3x precision rigs and a*****tail of Damps (For small scale), target painters (Fleet), sensor boosters/a MWD in mids, and you have one monster of a Dictor/Inty/Support killer.
I'm not saying its ever gonna be as OMGWTFBBQ as Gheylante, but Caldari can shine in a few roles and mostly do well in Fleet settings.
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Ivor Gunn
No One Expects The Spanish Inquisition
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Posted - 2007.10.07 02:03:00 -
[62]
Originally by: murder one
You suck. I love my Caldari buddies when they fly in gangs with me. It's awesome.
I thought you only flew solo?
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murder one
Gallente
Blood Corsair's
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Posted - 2007.10.07 05:43:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Ivor Gunn
Originally by: murder one
You suck. I love my Caldari buddies when they fly in gangs with me. It's awesome.
I thought you only flew solo?
What gave you that impression?
[07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now?
[07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2
Fleet Combat Ships |
Bigeasy
Caldari
Shadow Of The Light
R i s e
|
Posted - 2007.10.07 06:06:00 -
[64]
Man you guys forgot about the best support cruiser in the game. I find the blackbird to be a excellent fleet support ship, and it fits very well into small gang combat as well. Just fit 4 racial and in small gang combat you can jam anything you run into and in large fleet warfare you can jam those smaller ships like inty's and cruisers to help out you heavy buddies, and the 3 missile slots insure you can help with the DPS
The rook to me is the ultimate small gang ship, not so good in fleet battles though because you will just be primaried and destroyed right off the bat..not very fun :(
Big
Let them hate, so long as they fear-Caligula |
murder one
Gallente
Blood Corsair's
|
Posted - 2007.10.07 07:33:00 -
[65]
BTW, Rook just got a huge buff. High moved to low. Awesome.
[07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now?
[07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2
Fleet Combat Ships |
Bigeasy
Caldari
Shadow Of The Light
R i s e
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Posted - 2007.10.07 07:47:00 -
[66]
sweet
Let them hate, so long as they fear-Caligula |
Death Kill
Caldari
direkte
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Posted - 2007.10.07 07:49:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Snake Doctor
Hrmm. The last one sounds like a dig at me
It wasnt
Call to arms!!! |
iiOs
Blood Corsair's
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Posted - 2007.10.07 07:57:00 -
[68]
Originally by: murder one
BTW, Rook just got a huge buff. High moved to low. Awesome.
----------------------------------------
----------------------------------------
BB
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General StarScream
THE DECEPTIC0NS
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Posted - 2007.10.08 08:22:00 -
[69]
lol dude i feel the same way and im Gallente-
Drones suck.
HYbrid suck.
armor tanking suck,
and we dont have any good ships at all.
i wish i skilled amarr with there uber em dam, wich no one tanks for. its proven that Em dam is the lowest res on both Sheild and armor tanking.
Anything but Gallente cuse they really do suck.
i never should have read the fourm turds saying they where the best pvp race.
im never gona belive a word anyone say on here.
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Luna Nilaya
Ultrapolite Socialites
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.08 08:49:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Luna Nilaya on 08/10/2007 08:49:24
I fly Caldari and Gallente ships but I usually prefer Caldari ships.
Caldari ships that I like to use in PVP are
-Rokh
-Rook
-Falcon
-Drake
-Ferox (with 5x T2 blasters and 2x T2 heavy launchers or with sniping setup)
-Chimera (well.. haven't used this one in PVP yet, but I have no doubt that it's a nice ship to PVP with)
I'm also pretty sure that Crow, Vulture, Nighthawk, Phoenix and Flycatcher are great ones too.
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Selene Bork
Caldari
Umbra Congregatio
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.10.08 09:43:00 -
[71]
Originally by: BhallSpawn
Yes, I said it.
I specifically made a caldari only character, I now have a total of 30 million skill points and tried to make a pure racial based character.
But it seems CCP has had it decided to make caldari suck ass in pvp.
Not sure why they did this.
But I'm not very happy...
It seems I'm almost forced to cross train into another race in order to pvp well.
Tried of this crap.
only ships I see as competitive in pvp for caldari is drake\scorpion\rokh\recon ships(everyone has a good one)
That only leaves hawk(sucks)raven(sucks)missles in general(sucks)ferox(sucks)..
need I go on?
Erm I have 46 m sp and I love to pvp in caldari ships, maybe you should actually learn to use them properly
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