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Curiosity: how will ccp make marauders only usefull to missions/rattin

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Caldorous Gallente	Posted - 2007.10.07 19:08:00 - [1] This is, how to make a ship usefull only to missions, ratting and surviving a long time away from stations (which is heavily focused on combat) while not making it overpowered in pvp? Making warp scramblers in marauders useless? I've noticed that marauders have less turrets, without guns, there is no way to kill npcs, i hope that marauders doesnt have crappy dps... Any thoughts? -----------------------------
JoeSomebody No Trademark	Posted - 2007.10.07 19:10:00 - [2] rumor is that they getting insane damage bonuses to compensate for that
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.07 19:17:00 - [3] CCp never said they will be only usefull for missions. That woudl be plain stupid. They just said they woudl be good for missions. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Xilimyth Derlin OldBastardsPub SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.07 19:19:00 - [4] All CCP said was don't expect them to be 'Heavy Assault Battleships'. 4 turrets with a nice damage / tracking bonus to make them comparable to a normal BS isn't breaking.
Caldorous Gallente	Posted - 2007.10.07 20:14:00 - [5] yes but... how will they manage to stay away from home more time than the other ships? -----------------------------
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.07 20:29:00 - [6] Originally by: Caldorous yes but... how will they manage to stay away from home more time than the other ships? 1. Less turrets (= less ammo use) with bigger damage 2. Bigger cargohold 1. you use 1/2 of ammo (so can stay 2x longer) 2. you can carry 2x more ammo (so again 2x longer) = 4x longer total ;p
Caldorous Gallente	Posted - 2007.10.07 20:45:00 - [7] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: Caldorous yes but... how will they manage to stay away from home more time than the other ships? 1. Less turrets (= less ammo use) with bigger damage 2. Bigger cargohold 1. you use 1/2 of ammo (so can stay 2x longer) 2. you can carry 2x more ammo (so again 2x longer) = 4x longer total ;p Yes, and the amarr ships does not use ammo. They are t2 ships, there should be more "cooler" features implemented -----------------------------
Gecko O'Bac Aquilae Stellaris YouWhat	Posted - 2007.10.07 20:55:00 - [8] Originally by: Caldorous Yes, and the amarr ships does not use ammo. They are t2 ships, there should be more "cooler" features implemented Dammit, I thought they were removing amarr in rev 3... I think I read somewhere they were an april's fool jest gone bad
Black Lily	Posted - 2007.10.07 21:59:00 - [9] As the Amarr marauder is Apocalypse hull and we know that it is going to be black aka Khanid ship. Why does it have 4 turrets instead of 4 torpedoes which would also make it better at carebearing.
Tonto Auri	Posted - 2007.10.07 22:10:00 - [10] Originally by: Black Lily As the Amarr marauder is Apocalypse hull and we know that it is going to be black aka Khanid ship. Why does it have 4 turrets instead of 4 torpedoes which would also make it better at carebearing. It isn't "Khanid Black" and it isn't of Khanid design (Too bright to be Khanid I suppose). -- Thanks CCP for cu<end of sig>
Skiving Larry	Posted - 2007.10.08 01:07:00 - [11] Edited by: Skiving Larry on 08/10/2007 01:09:04 Verb1.maraud - raid and rove in search of booty; "marauding rebels overran the countryside" They can't call a ship a marauder and not make it good for marauding. PS. But then again I just 'invented' a stealth bomber
Zeph Solaris Firing Squad Pure.	Posted - 2007.10.08 01:33:00 - [12] My bet is they're getting powergrid/cpu reduction bonuses for capital sized weaponry.
IHaveTenFingers Caldari ADVANCED Combat and Engineering Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.10.08 01:53:00 - [13] Originally by: Zeph Solaris My bet is they're getting powergrid/cpu reduction bonuses for capital sized weaponry. Thats not ******** at all. -TF
Zeph Solaris Firing Squad Pure.	Posted - 2007.10.08 04:01:00 - [14] It makes sense. The skills are pretty much what it takes to fly a capital and has a very similar slot layout. It's also a perfect anti-blobbing tool. The capital guns wouldn't have the tracking to hurt moving battleships, so it's not a pwnmobile, just an anti-capital/POS ship. It'd have the mobility of a normal battleship so it could hop through gates and not be bothered much by cyno-jammers. In turn, it'd still be easily vulnerable to a normal fleet and POS guns. A roaming gang of these would be something to fear for logistic capitals hopping back and forth between empire and 0.0. From what I've heard, a lot of the level 5 missions dont let capitals through the gates, so this would be a great way to do them.
Norris Packard Wings of Redemption Black Flag Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.08 04:49:00 - [15] Originally by: Zeph Solaris It makes sense. The skills are pretty much what it takes to fly a capital and has a very similar slot layout. It's also a perfect anti-blobbing tool. The capital guns wouldn't have the tracking to hurt moving battleships, so it's not a pwnmobile, just an anti-capital/POS ship. It'd have the mobility of a normal battleship so it could hop through gates and not be bothered much by cyno-jammers. In turn, it'd still be easily vulnerable to a normal fleet and POS guns. A roaming gang of these would be something to fear for logistic capitals hopping back and forth between empire and 0.0. From what I've heard, a lot of the level 5 missions dont let capitals through the gates, so this would be a great way to do them. There is so way that they would fit Capital ship mods. other than the launchers they would not work on the models so it is not going to happen. If they wanted them to do capital ship damage they would probaly get a role bonus to get the dps up to that level and then have them fit the capital mod Seige modual to make them do high dps and lowered tracking. The ships would look stupid with capital guns on them and that would never happen. I doubt that this is what they are going to do but its a better presentation of your idea than oversized guns.
Icome4u Caldari Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.10.08 04:54:00 - [16] You guys need to get real lol... those ships will NOT do capital size damage... But hey stick a 2 billion isk price tag then 'maybe'... dps of a capital ship with the tank of a BS, i'm going to love those if they come out like that. Gonna be fun to pop them :) ______ Originally by: Vyger If I lose connection while walking around a station will my avatar run off in a random direction and go hide in a corner?
Relnala	Posted - 2007.10.08 05:11:00 - [17] Uhh, capital turrets before siege modules do crap damage. So if it fit capital turrets it would just plain suck, if it got a siege mod... well its still pretty much suck.
Zeph Solaris Firing Squad Pure.	Posted - 2007.10.08 05:20:00 - [18] Just saw the change to the Nightmare. Cutting the number of guns in half and giving everything a 100% boost to damage would lower the amount of things the server has to deal with in a fight. It'd be like how mission rats have all their damage of a volley done in one shot. Still, with the near-capital level skills, I'd like to think they'd have bonuses to fit the XL guns and siege module. I mean, come on, it'd pretty much only be useful in sieges and be just as vulnerable as a normal battleship. It's the trade off you'd get from the extra mobility.
murder one Gallente Blood Corsair's	Posted - 2007.10.08 05:40:00 - [19] Originally by: Zeph Solaris It makes sense. The skills are pretty much what it takes to fly a capital and has a very similar slot layout. It's also a perfect anti-blobbing tool. The capital guns wouldn't have the tracking to hurt moving battleships, so it's not a pwnmobile, just an anti-capital/POS ship. It'd have the mobility of a normal battleship so it could hop through gates and not be bothered much by cyno-jammers. In turn, it'd still be easily vulnerable to a normal fleet and POS guns. A roaming gang of these would be something to fear for logistic capitals hopping back and forth between empire and 0.0. From what I've heard, a lot of the level 5 missions dont let capitals through the gates, so this would be a great way to do them. No, it doesn't make sense. [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2 Fleet Combat Ships
Mnengli Noiliffe	Posted - 2007.10.08 05:43:00 - [20] Edited by: Mnengli Noiliffe on 08/10/2007 05:44:38 4 turrets, interesting.. I see 3 possible ways - 1. They have sub par dps making them useless for damage dealing, useful only for their dedicated role. 2. They have bonuses for the turrets that make 4 guns as good as t1 BS's 7. This makes them perfect for mission running because why would you bring 2 bil ship into fleet battle.. Besides they will chew up much less ammo and cap and have slightly better resists than t1 - ideal for missions. 3. Well this one is from fantasy world but what the heck (maybe it's been suggested already though). One t2 BS is using cyno jumping .... Dreads use cyno AND siege mode .. See the pattern here? Maybe they'll make a light weight BS sized siege engine? That surely would make those 4 turrets as good or better than t1's 7 :) Along with some other things perhaps... Anyway this would make them useful for missions (but perhaps too expensive to be viable), plus make them suitable for duties like killing high sec POS perhaps...
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2007.10.08 07:08:00 - [21] They have a huge (and I do mean HUGE) weakness, which everyone seems to have overlooked. I don't think it's a mistake either, as it's the same across all four Marauders, we shall see once you can test these puppies... ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'
Gor Kraon Minmatar Red Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.08 07:23:00 - [22] You mean the scan res and sensor strength being low? I find it interesting capacitor capacity no longer appears on info at all... just recharge time.
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2007.10.08 07:30:00 - [23] Yes, easier to jam than a T1 cruiser. ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'
Mnengli Noiliffe	Posted - 2007.10.08 07:39:00 - [24] haha yeah 25% larger sig and almost half the sensor strength, scanners rejoice. but if you mission run in low in any kind of BS you beg to be scanned down anyway.
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.10.08 10:13:00 - [25] Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe Edited by: Mnengli Noiliffe on 08/10/2007 07:52:36 comparing to t1 BS... 25% larger sig radius almost half the sensor strength the rest of stuff seems to be superior except for the grid but that's for the missing turrets. Both of these parameters affect, among other things, how easy it is to scan them down. so maybe that is done to prevent them from being mission pwn mobile ... Actually they are supposed to be mission pwnmobiles. Especially the low sensor strength is there to prevent them from being PvP pwnmobiles. I mean, with a proper scorp, you can permajam a Vagyr with just one racial jammer... There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Abbadon Wrath Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.10.08 10:24:00 - [26] I'm betting on a siege type module that gives a huge dmg (and mabe tanking bonus), but only works in deadspace.
Abbadon Wrath Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.10.08 10:29:00 - [27] Oh and all those people saying that Marauders will NOT only be missions ships, read this... Quote: Once they're released for full player testing and seeded on the market, more useful information will come forth in the forms of real practical combat tests, or in the case of the Marauders, how they fare in missions and complexes. Source

CCP Atropos	Posted - 2007.10.08 10:36:00 - [28] Originally by: Abbadon Wrath Oh and all those people saying that Marauders will NOT only be missions ships, read this... Quote: Once they're released for full player testing and seeded on the market, more useful information will come forth in the forms of real practical combat tests, or in the case of the Marauders, how they fare in missions and complexes. Source The Marauders aren't only mission ships. They're designed to be more flexible than the current ships in play in missions, whilst at the same time not becoming a new solo-pwn-mobile. This can be seen with the lower sensor strength on them. Of course the greatest test will come when they're released to the players and the results of their tinkering become apparent; the adaptability and problem solving demonstrated by the player base is immense, and I have no doubt that there will be niche roles that these ships fill, that we would never have considered. Yes, you can on the one hand say that they seem a little lackluster with respect to their stats, but that's only because the full role and description information hasn't been released along with the final ship stats. So please, remember to take speculation at face value, and not a final definition of what the ship will be like.

Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.08 11:08:00 - [29] Originally by: CCP Atropos Originally by: Abbadon Wrath Oh and all those people saying that Marauders will NOT only be missions ships, read this... Quote: Once they're released for full player testing and seeded on the market, more useful information will come forth in the forms of real practical combat tests, or in the case of the Marauders, how they fare in missions and complexes. Source The Marauders aren't only mission ships. They're designed to be more flexible than the current ships in play in missions, whilst at the same time not becoming a new solo-pwn-mobile. This can be seen with the lower sensor strength on them. Of course the greatest test will come when they're released to the players and the results of their tinkering become apparent; the adaptability and problem solving demonstrated by the player base is immense, and I have no doubt that there will be niche roles that these ships fill, that we would never have considered. Yes, you can on the one hand say that they seem a little lackluster with respect to their stats, but that's only because the full role and description information hasn't been released along with the final ship stats. So please, remember to take speculation at face value, and not a final definition of what the ship will be like. lol, dont forget our capability of creating problems also :P If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Tonto Auri	Posted - 2007.10.08 11:16:00 - [30] Yea... remeber nanophoons... -- Thanks CCP for cu<end of sig>
Mnengli Noiliffe	Posted - 2007.10.08 11:31:00 - [31] so basically this officialy the mission mobile with rudimental scanners, will pwn guristas missions how exactly?
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.10.08 12:22:00 - [32] For all I know, NPC jamming is flat chance, so the sensor strength makes no difference. So as with any other ship, you just wait it out or use FoFs/drones. There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Dan Grobag Caldari Oyster Colors	Posted - 2007.10.08 12:34:00 - [33] They may be too expensive for pvp too.
Kayna Eelai	Posted - 2007.10.08 13:49:00 - [34] i've read somewhere when CCP said they would implement new mission running ships... i didn't read where they said it would be the marauders. can some1 link that please?
Kayna Eelai	Posted - 2007.10.08 13:50:00 - [35] Originally by: Leandro Salazar For all I know, NPC jamming is flat chance, so the sensor strength makes no difference. So as with any other ship, you just wait it out or use FoFs/drones. i've found plenty of lvl4 mission BS jamming me... well, not sure if it was ECM jam or dampener
TerrorWOLF PURE Legion Pure.	Posted - 2007.10.08 14:08:00 - [36] Originally by: Kayna Eelai Originally by: Leandro Salazar For all I know, NPC jamming is flat chance, so the sensor strength makes no difference. So as with any other ship, you just wait it out or use FoFs/drones. i've found plenty of lvl4 mission BS jamming me... well, not sure if it was ECM jam or dampener Guristas Pirates - ECM Angel Cartel - dont know (painters?) The Blood Raider Covenant - NOS Sansha's Nation - cant remember Serpentis - damps May Your Death Be Slow And Painful
Keiko Matsumoto Caldari Dragon Enterprises	Posted - 2007.10.08 14:11:00 - [37] Originally by: TerrorWOLF Originally by: Kayna Eelai Originally by: Leandro Salazar For all I know, NPC jamming is flat chance, so the sensor strength makes no difference. So as with any other ship, you just wait it out or use FoFs/drones. i've found plenty of lvl4 mission BS jamming me... well, not sure if it was ECM jam or dampener Guristas Pirates - ECM Angel Cartel - dont know (painters?) The Blood Raider Covenant - NOS Sansha's Nation - cant remember Serpentis - damps Sansha = Tracking Disruptors Angel Cartel = Painters and ECM on guri missions in a CNR seems less jamming than on other ships for me.
Lunch Money	Posted - 2007.10.10 16:43:00 - [38] Edited by: Lunch Money on 10/10/2007 16:43:59 now imagine doing missions/ratting vs guristas, low sensors -> perma jamm and those ships will be sooo expensive 1b+ that one few will use them to pvp (those who use rattlesnakes/nightmares etc)
Shiela Caldari Warrior Nation United SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.10 22:45:00 - [39] The purpose of this ship is to allow isk farmers in 0.0 the ability to fit 4x weapons, 2x tractors, 1x salvager, and 1x cloaking device. Now they get to do it all, plus they get to farm even longer before having to re-suplly on ammo. --------------------------------------------- Need cheap and safe rearch done? Feel free to contact Steve TheWraith in game, or visit: http://warriornation.net/Forum/showthread.php?t=290332
Arana Tellen Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.10.10 23:57:00 - [40] Originally by: Shiela The purpose of this ship is to allow isk farmers in 0.0 the ability to fit 4x weapons, 2x tractors, 1x salvager, and 1x cloaking device. Now they get to do it all, plus they get to farm even longer before having to re-suplly on ammo. It does mean they are laying even MORE on the line ofc, so if you manage to get them you will make them cry --------------------------------- Core 2 Duo E4300 1.8ghz @ 3ghz, 2GB Gskill DDR2 5400 @ 800mhh 4-4-4-12, Abit fatality mATX F-I90HD @ 334mhz, 8800GTS 320mb 2x250GB 7200.10s Raid 0, Vista 64 Home.
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.10.11 10:52:00 - [41] Originally by: CCP Atropos The Marauders aren't only mission ships. They're designed to be more flexible than the current ships in play in missions, whilst at the same time not becoming a new solo-pwn-mobile. This can be seen with the lower sensor strength on them. Of course the greatest test will come when they're released to the players and the results of their tinkering become apparent; the adaptability and problem solving demonstrated by the player base is immense, and I have no doubt that there will be niche roles that these ships fill, that we would never have considered. Yes, you can on the one hand say that they seem a little lackluster with respect to their stats, but that's only because the full role and description information hasn't been released along with the final ship stats. So please, remember to take speculation at face value, and not a final definition of what the ship will be like. I'm suspecting you did a partial release of them (showing off the stats, but not the bonuses) just for the giggle of seeing the community's reaction to 4 weapons on them. In previous releases they were either full stats, or not at all. A social engineering test? ------------------------------------------ What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs.
Beowulf Scheafer Gallente M34t p0p s1ckle Manufacturing	Posted - 2007.10.11 12:47:00 - [42] i can only speculate, too. but i guess the insane dps for missions (and other stuff) might depend on a somewhat siegemode-like module. the golem for example has a very similar layout to the phoenix. that fact would aswell explain the huge cargo (for fuel, like a dread) and the few weapon slots (like a dread again ). i'm not sure they will work in the same way a dread does, but they at least look damn similar to it...
iudex Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.11 12:57:00 - [43] Originally by: Beowulf Scheafer i can only speculate, too. but i guess the insane dps for missions (and other stuff) might depend on a somewhat siegemode-like module. the golem for example has a very similar layout to the phoenix. that fact would aswell explain the huge cargo (for fuel, like a dread) and the few weapon slots (like a dread again ). i'm not sure they will work in the same way a dread does, but they at least look damn similar to it... Yea, maybe 4 citadel launchers, no siegemod bonus like a dread, but ship/maradeur/-bonus to explosion velocity and target navigation prediction, so that they hits BS and BC for full damage But i think it's probably only able to fit cruise or sige launchers and gets nice ship bonus, heavy assault bonus, maradeur bonus on damage/precision/missile velocity so in the end, if you train maradeurs to 4 or 5, you end up having more firepower than a cnr + extra highslots for tractor beams + more cargo (for loot) + slightly better tank = better mission boat. Hope the devs reveal this quite soon, already started to train the missing skills for the maradeur. My skills
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.10.11 15:15:00 - [44] Originally by: Beowulf Scheafer i can only speculate, too. but i guess the insane dps for missions (and other stuff) might depend on a somewhat siegemode-like module. the golem for example has a very similar layout to the phoenix. that fact would aswell explain the huge cargo (for fuel, like a dread) and the few weapon slots (like a dread again ). i'm not sure they will work in the same way a dread does, but they at least look damn similar to it... There won't be a siege module for those ships. It would cut into the "lots of utility slots" those ships are supposed to have for versatility. And someone from CCP spoke on singularity about a 100% damage bonus. The only remaining question being wether it's one of the two marauder skill bonus (20% damage/level) or a role bonus. ------------------------------------------ What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs.
Futher Bezluden Minmatar ORIGIN SYSTEMS Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.11 23:31:00 - [45] hopefully role bonus or they'll be fit with capital guns and the ship gets insane rof/tracking bonus so they're like uber bs guns. Sanshas use tracking disruptors iirc. THUKKER -Be Paranoid
pandymen Caldari Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade	Posted - 2007.10.12 08:43:00 - [46] This isn't the first thread on the subject...and in every other similar thread, ppl commented on the sensor strengths. It was repeatedly stated that the stats are not final, and may very well be tweaked. Furthermore, you have no idea about what the bonuses will be like. For all we know, there will be a +5 sensor strength per level for the ship class. All I know is, it was specifically stated that the sensor strenghts were not finalized...and I know that CCP wouldn't make it that easy to jam a BS, but hey, if they do, my rook is lookin alot nicer

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