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Fix Roden.... OR DIE!

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Pattern Clarc Reikoku	Posted - 2007.10.08 05:35:00 - [1] With the introduction of at least 2 more roden ships and between them, no missile hardpoints, the sexual identity of everybodies favorate gallentean manufacturer has never been more confused. Case one. Nemisis vs Enyo.... Roden are typically suppost to favour missiles over drones and ewar... So, what more perfect opertunity to demonstrate this than with the nemisis... With a 5 high, 3 mid 3 low slot layout... limited ewar capiblities but with perhaps greater flexiblities in terms of overall combat f.. wait Quote: Developer: Duvolle Laboratories Duvolle Labs manufactures sturdy ships with a good mix of offensive and defensive capabilities. Being the foremost manufacturer of particle blasters, its ships tend to favor turrets and thus have somewhat higher power output than normal. Excuse me for being captain obvious but what the hell - WHY WOULD A STEALTH BOMBER NEED BLASTERS .... .... I'm sure the CCP has a great reason which combines neatly with the games lore and backstory - of which i'm sure theres heaps and heaps about of which I'm sure the CCP will revel to us in there own good time.... ....but I digress Now we have a thoroughbread blaster boat - in the enyo, except it has an extra missile hardpoint... cool, whatever - defenders are like cool and st... huh.... Drone bay... Roden.... To be fair, the enyo isn't that bad an example of rodeness, if all roden ships where based around it's weapon hardpoint ratio, at least there would be some consistancy, however... Eris vs Ares... Is this the roden way?, half damage bonuses, split weapon systems and a distingt lack of midslots? They might balance out with there other racial counter parts (well, actually they don't but whatever) in terms of raw stats (dps/speed/dps-tanked) but with the reality of these high speed enviroments garringly clear ie (2 midslots = DOOM) x (armour tank = useless) = Lame , we end up with 2 ships which aer decididly poor performers for there role which is sharply reflected in the market cost and demand for these items... ... And no, "because it's cheaper" isn't a reason to not fix/boost/balance a ship or a module, especially a t2 one. Lachesis (roden sucess?) Every time I see this ship, I say, this could have been an awesome his could have been an awesome Creodon ship - the Helios's big brother... Quote: Developer: CreoDron As the largest drone developer and manufacturer in space, CreoDron has a vested interest in drone carriers. Opertunity lost.... What we have still is a reasonible ship, but a stilly amount of mids, better ewar than the arazu and an uncompromising missile/turret hardpoint... compromise... It's just not consistant, with anything else, theres no lore in the description or progression, it just feels like a bastard stepchild of a ship concept designed purely by looking over balance spreadsheets with no real respect to the players who care about this stuff. Now enter Sin and Phobos. I really don't know enough about these ships to even speculate on the details - the only thing for certain is that they are Roden. Now, you've got 2 options... Make it up, add a bunch of mids and missiles to the hulls of ships that frankly just don't fit.... Or Define what Roden is.... Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus
Pattern Clarc Reikoku	Posted - 2007.10.08 05:41:00 - [2] To me Roden should be about: low mass (high mwd speed and high agility) mwd cap bonuses (eg thorax/vindicator) full single hybrid damage and tracking bonuses and falloff bonuses (eg enyo) the 2:3 mid to low slot ratio seen on some of my favourate roden ships with the following resulting in less drone compatiblity and poor cpu/ewar capiblities. Eris 8x highs (6 turrets + grid) 2 mids 4 lows 5% missile damage becomes 5% turret damage massive mass reduction minus drone bay Ares 4 highs (3 turrets no launchers) 2 mids 4 lows 5% missile damage becomes 10% bonus to falloff or 5% less penalty to max capacitor for MicroWarpdrive usage per level. Enyo 5 highs (5 turrets, no missiles or drones) 2 mids 4 lows Major mass reduction and the removal of the drone bay however with the bonuses staying the same.... Deimos - (now becomes roden, with the phobos becoming the dictor cruiser.... or the phobos becoming the HAC or whatever) Change to pink.... (with the recent deimos mass reductions...) +1 turret, reduce drone bay size to 25m3 *Done Lachesis TBA Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2007.10.08 05:45:00 - [3] I agree. Ares needs a boosting...
Grapez	Posted - 2007.10.08 06:04:00 - [4] I'll see your suggestion a raise you another one: remove missile hardpoints from all Gallente ships. I mean, there's 2 launcher hardpoints on the Megathron, and 1 on the Hyperion. Has anyone, anywhere ever seen a Mega or a Hyp shoot a missile? Change the bonus and weapon layout of the Nemesis so that it can fit 350mm rails instead. Maybe only allow it to fit 2 rails, for balance. I don't care that it's supposed to be a 'stealth bomber,' call it a 'stealth sniper' or whatever. Bottom line; Gallente are the hybrid users. Caldari are the missile users, Minmatar are the projectile users and Amarr use flashlights. If you're spec'ed in Gallente ships and you want to use missiles, train Caldari. I think the racial differences in weapon systems are not as pronounced as they should be.
Pattern Clarc Reikoku	Posted - 2007.10.08 06:05:00 - [5] Originally by: Jinx Barker I agree. Ares needs a boosting... I'm not too concerned about boosting a specific ship, I jus want a manufacturer to have some sort of identity/niche - khanid MKII is a good, much needed example of this. Something similar is needed with roden Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus
Battlecheese Caldari Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.10.08 06:10:00 - [6] Originally by: Grapez Has anyone, anywhere ever seen a Mega or a Hyp shoot a missile? If defender missiles were slightly more effective these might get used quite a bit.
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2007.10.08 06:13:00 - [7] Originally by: Pattern Clarc Originally by: Jinx Barker I agree. Ares needs a boosting... I'm not too concerned about boosting a specific ship, I jus want a manufacturer to have some sort of identity/niche - khanid MKII is a good, much needed example of this. Something similar is needed with roden Don't get me wrong, although what I said is perhaps a bit facetious, I see where you are going. Each manufacturer should have its own identity when it comes to their products. In other words, yes, having half-arsed bonuses and hard-points is a bit silly, and yea it would be nice to have Roden ships be more uniform and in line with other recent balances in game.
Pattern Clarc Reikoku	Posted - 2007.10.08 06:17:00 - [8] Originally by: Battlecheese Originally by: Grapez Has anyone, anywhere ever seen a Mega or a Hyp shoot a missile? If defender missiles were slightly more effective these might get used quite a bit. Don't knock my tristan, my dual defender missile setup pwns Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus
Haffrage Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.08 06:22:00 - [9] Falloff bonuses, on Roden? The Enyo a "thoroughbred" blaster boat (with 2 mids and optimal bonus?), making duvolle an ewar producer? I'm sorry, but good god, if you're aiming to balance something take it 1 step at a time. Turning Roden into a web-less bastardization of Duvolle, and then turning Duvolle into an ewar producer is just...disgusting. If not pointless. Why totally redefine TWO producers when you can just do one? We already have a producer which specializes in close range. Roden is the only gallente producer that has no clear defined role. The Enyo is a star of a ship, and functions extremely well in both theory and practice. It's ALSO the only Gallente ship I'm aware of that has an optimal bonus (ignoring the Ishkur). A great setup is to fit it with rails and hang just at web range. Gallente has very, very few ships that specialize in medium to long range. The other ships that do it well are the Lach and Arazu. The Lach better so than the Arazu due to additional mid and gank. Between the Enyo and the Lach it's clear that medium range works with Gallente. So why not step it up and make ALL Roden designed for it? All the other races have their 3 very defined platforms and roles. Amarr have lasers/missiles/tank. Caldari have ecm/range/missiles. Minmatar have speed/arty/ac (arties/ac's being two radically different weapons systems). Gallente is stuck with drones, blasters, and then blasters/drones/missiles/pink. Why not make that drones/closerangegank/mediumrangegank? T2 Tier 2 Battlecruisers \| Eve GUI Tweaks
Celedris Stimulus	Posted - 2007.10.08 06:24:00 - [10] Lachesis is totally fine as is.
Dr Ming Mindworks	Posted - 2007.10.08 06:38:00 - [11] I think the simple truth of Roden is that Roden = lazy. None of their ships show any evidence whatsoever of actual design work being put into them. Now the mother of all drone ships is getting turned into a Roden ship. The fail factor that will be this ship is already clear: They had a skin, the skin didn't make ANY sense for the ship in question, and their using it anyways. The primary criteria that describes Roden is met: lazy. It is like primordial half-finished lazy fail is bubbling up from the prehistory of EVE and coalescing into a giant pink blob of sloth. No wonder its called the Sin.
Pattern Clarc Reikoku	Posted - 2007.10.08 06:38:00 - [12] Originally by: Haffrage Falloff bonuses, on Roden? The Enyo a "thoroughbred" blaster boat (with 2 mids and optimal bonus?), making duvolle an ewar producer? I'm sorry, but good god, if you're aiming to balance something take it 1 step at a time. Turning Roden into a web-less bastardization of Duvolle, and then turning Duvolle into an ewar producer is just...disgusting. If not pointless. Why totally redefine TWO producers when you can just do one? We already have a producer which specializes in close range. Roden is the only gallente producer that has no clear defined role. The Enyo is a star of a ship, and functions extremely well in both theory and practice. It's ALSO the only Gallente ship I'm aware of that has an optimal bonus (ignoring the Ishkur). A great setup is to fit it with rails and hang just at web range. Gallente has very, very few ships that specialize in medium to long range. The other ships that do it well are the Lach and Arazu. The Lach better so than the Arazu due to additional mid and gank. Between the Enyo and the Lach it's clear that medium range works with Gallente. So why not step it up and make ALL Roden designed for it? All the other races have their 3 very defined platforms and roles. Amarr have lasers/missiles/tank. Caldari have ecm/range/missiles. Minmatar have speed/arty/ac (arties/ac's being two radically different weapons systems). Gallente is stuck with drones, blasters, and then blasters/drones/missiles/pink. Why not make that drones/closerangegank/mediumrangegank? Sounds good - probably better than my idea... However We dont' need missiles as a secondary weapons platform, drones do this fine. I also want consistancy with the role focus, the lachesis my be an OK ship, but it shatters this consistancy to pieces. It's also what I fear the Sin may do if they dev's don't rightly change it to a Creodron ship, or use the megathron hull. So optimal range bonuses instead of fall off bonuses? sounds good... ... Would work on the eris and ares (+1 turret - missiles each) and also on the new Eos... Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus
Pattern Clarc Reikoku	Posted - 2007.10.08 06:39:00 - [13] Originally by: Dr Ming I think the simple truth of Roden is that Roden = lazy. None of their ships show any evidence whatsoever of actual design work being put into them. Now the mother of all drone ships is getting turned into a Roden ship. The fail factor that will be this ship is already clear: They had a skin, the skin didn't make ANY sense for the ship in question, and their using it anyways. The primary criteria that describes Roden is met: lazy. It is like primordial half-finished lazy fail is bubbling up from the prehistory of EVE and coalescing into a giant pink blob of sloth. No wonder its called the Sin. Sir, I could not have wrote a more damning (but awesome) analysis of roden if I tried. Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus
Pattern Clarc Reikoku	Posted - 2007.10.08 06:42:00 - [14] new idea... Roden signature bonus - 50% reduction to defender missile rof per level Yes? No? Maybe? Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus
Grapez	Posted - 2007.10.08 06:51:00 - [15] Originally by: Pattern Clarc new idea... Roden signature bonus - 50% reduction to defender missile rof per level Yes? No? Maybe? Hmm... Originally by: Battlecheese Originally by: Grapez Has anyone, anywhere ever seen a Mega or a Hyp shoot a missile? If defender missiles were slightly more effective these might get used quite a bit. I haven't used defenders since I was running level 1 missions, but back then they were broken beyond belief. Have they gotten aby better?
Haffrage Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.08 07:30:00 - [16] Edited by: Haffrage on 08/10/2007 07:32:20 I'd REALLY like to see Roden become Amarr/Gallente hybrids, like how Khanid became proper Caldari/Amarr. This is already displayed in slot layout and CPU issues (), I say we should put rails and optimal bonuses into the mix. Instead of cap use reduction, tracking bonuses. Why? Graph 1, Graph 2 (Left is maximum damage potential, bottom is distance in KM, right is...I dunno) Beams have significantly higher tracking than rails, but at a cost of being closer range. Amarr ships increase range and damage, and reduce cap cost. Why not mirror the net results with Roden? They could increase range, damage, and tracking. And, to stress the preference of range, give them lots of guns. More cap. Good armor. VERY few mids. The Enyo should have 5 turrets. But little CPU to work with for damage mods. Make them mirror Amarr, ships built to endure. So, the Enyo would have 5/2/4 slot layout with 5 turrets. More cap. No drone. Reduce structure and increase armor, 15% more armor and 25% less structure. This would result in a setup that has no room for nos and no room for a web - a clear long range brawler. Due to additional armor it also has more breathing room with its tank, built to endure. Not mind-blowing DPS, but plenty to kill a target. And Roden would still be as Gallente as Khanid is Amarr. Not everything HAS to be exactly the same, we'd all be playing Pong Online if it were. At least, that's what I would like to see. T2 Tier 2 Battlecruisers \| Eve GUI Tweaks
Pattern Clarc Reikoku	Posted - 2007.10.08 07:37:00 - [17] Ok, new t2 Gallente Manufacturers Profile... Creodon Drone Controlers (drone hp bonuses + spares) Gank (drone and turret bonuses) Ewar Slower than average 1:1 mid to low slot ratio Duvolle Blaster specialist (fall off bonuses) Gank (double damage bonuses) Counter Meauses (in drones) Average speed 2:3 mid to low slot ratio Roden Medium Range specialists (tracking/optimal range specialists) Tank higher speed (lower mass) 1:2 mid to low slot ratio ~~less drones than average~~ ~~missiles~~ Which leaves the Sin, Lachesis and Nemisis in totally the wrong places. I'd change the Nemisis to roden, Lachesis to Creodon and Sin to Duvolle (following on from the Arazu). The Eos could also become Roden if the Nemisis or Sin stayed the same - 7 turrets + tracking bonus would be pretty useful, but not overpowering all fitting in neatly into one tight Roden pakage.... Am I dreaming? Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus
Shevar Minmatar A.W.M Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.10.08 07:42:00 - [18] Some of your ideas are horribly overpowered (AF with 5 bonussed high slots?), also it would make roden t1 with t2 resists. I would prefer CCP moving roden ships more towards missile ships then towards gun boats. Also how come you call the enyo a blasterboat? If anything it's a railboat. --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
Pattern Clarc Reikoku	Posted - 2007.10.08 07:43:00 - [19] Originally by: Haffrage Edited by: Haffrage on 08/10/2007 07:32:20 I'd REALLY like to see Roden become Amarr/Gallente hybrids, like how Khanid became proper Caldari/Amarr. This is already displayed in slot layout and CPU issues (), I say we should put rails and optimal bonuses into the mix. Instead of cap use reduction, tracking bonuses. Why? Graph 1, Graph 2 (Left is maximum damage potential, bottom is distance in KM, right is...I dunno) Beams have significantly higher tracking than rails, but at a cost of being closer range. Amarr ships increase range and damage, and reduce cap cost. Why not mirror the net results with Roden? They could increase range, damage, and tracking. And, to stress the preference of range, give them lots of guns. More cap. Good armor. VERY few mids. The Enyo should have 5 turrets. But little CPU to work with for damage mods. Make them mirror Amarr, ships built to endure. So, the Enyo would have 5/2/4 slot layout with 5 turrets. More cap. No drone. Reduce structure and increase armor, 15% more armor and 25% less structure. This would result in a setup that has no room for nos and no room for a web - a clear long range brawler. Due to additional armor it also has more breathing room with its tank, built to endure. Not mind-blowing DPS, but plenty to kill a target. And Roden would still be as Gallente as Khanid is Amarr. Not everything HAS to be exactly the same, we'd all be playing Pong Online if it were. At least, that's what I would like to see. I almost completely agree... I'm not sure about the bit in which you mentioned the changes to the armor/structure balance, it would depend on the numbers however I recon duvolle should have more HP overall allowing roden ships in generall having lower mass (more mwd speed and agility) which is something mid range ships need to have, and where roden sorely lack atm. The question now is what the **** do you do with all the ships the CCP has missplaced? Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus
Pattern Clarc Reikoku	Posted - 2007.10.08 07:50:00 - [20] Originally by: Shevar Some of your ideas are horribly overpowered (AF with 5 bonussed high slots?), also it would make roden t1 with t2 resists. I would prefer CCP moving roden ships more towards missile ships then towards gun boats. Also how come you call the enyo a blasterboat? If anything it's a railboat. When you look at the CPU the enyo has, fitting rails the way a harpy would often demotes it to blasters in my mind, but I suppose your right - hybrid boat? With 5 bonused turrets and a mass reduction yes, it would be unbalanced - but to be frank, it's the kinda boost all af's are looking for atm. (tbh, when the drone is removed and the rocket launcher is replaced with a turret, the dps diference isn't that game breaking) Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus
Haffrage Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.08 08:11:00 - [21] That's the cool thing. The Lach would be different, yet still good if not better. 5 turrets, more grid, more armor, more cap. Optimal bonus instead of missile ROF. 30 m3 drone bay. So with good skills, say, capable of fitting MWD, med cap injector, 3x 250mm II, 2x 200mm II, 4x hobgobs+1x hammerhead. Still very close DPS, higher or lower depending on your skills. The Ares gets 1 more turret and an optimal bonus. More cap and grid. The Phobos is switched for the Duvolle Vexor, which it should have ***** been in the first place. CCP hasn't even got the excuse that it's the wrong tier - the Caracal is tier 2 while all the other 3 are tier 3. The only real reason is how none of them have drone bays, bah. The Sin stays as is. With less mids, lots of armor, and ranged gank it becomes an entirely different kind of ship. It would keep its drones, but it wouldn't focus 100% on them. Keep in mind, these ARE Black Ops BS, they have less HP and can cloak. They're not designed to be immense solopwnmobiles, and making the Domi anything BUT Roden would have done the exact opposite. Creodron? The only real option is more damage bonuses, it's got the drone bay the Ishtar and Eos wanted to have. Duvolle? More blaster damage, on a BO BS? Oi. Besides, with an optimal bonus and Null fitting it like a Rokh isn't entirely out of the question, you do have grid set up for medium tier rails and enough lows to fit 1 or 2 rcu's. The Occator gets a turret hardpoint for **s and giggles. T2 Tier 2 Battlecruisers \| Eve GUI Tweaks
Lucia Warbler Eve University	Posted - 2007.10.08 10:30:00 - [22] /me thinks you need advanced weapon upgrades to fit 5 turrets into Enyo. I wouldn't mind a little boost though... Enyo didn't get much love from the Devs to begin with. As for the missile points; I think it's a controller nerf to keep Gallente dps in line with other faction's ships.
Shevar Minmatar A.W.M Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.10.08 10:53:00 - [23] Originally by: Lucia Warbler /me thinks you need advanced weapon upgrades to fit 5 turrets into Enyo. I wouldn't mind a little boost though... Enyo didn't get much love from the Devs to begin with. As for the missile points; I think it's a controller nerf to keep Gallente dps in line with other faction's ships. Enyo is probably the 4th best AF out of 8. Only Jaguar, Ishkur and hawk are better, if the ishkur wasn't in that list then yes enyo needed a small boost but quite frankly the gallente AF's are on average pretty good already. --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
Jinmie	Posted - 2007.10.08 11:37:00 - [24] The Sin is just***** and that's that.
DeadRow Dragonstar	Posted - 2007.10.08 12:23:00 - [25] Leave things as they are, kthxbai. /DeadRow
Pattern Clarc Reikoku	Posted - 2007.10.08 15:31:00 - [26] Originally by: Haffrage The Sin stays as is. With less mids, lots of armor, and ranged gank it becomes an entirely different kind of ship. Duvolle or bust tbh Especially if you plan to change the ishtar to Duvolle, or go Creodron for both if you most. I just see it as a massive dissapoint that the CCP are going to disregard there own lore in this way. In a game which revolves around spaceships, the lore driving the manufacturers should be god. Roden is a massive failure in this regard. Sure i'd like them to be boosted, but beyond that i'd like more consistancy, i'd like to know what you'd get whenever you jumped into a pink ship, whether it be an ewar mistro or a hardcore armarrian like middrange turret ship. Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus
Hurricane	Posted - 2007.10.08 15:54:00 - [27] Originally by: Shevar Enyo is probably the 4th best AF out of 8. Only Jaguar, Ishkur and hawk are better, if the ishkur wasn't in that list then yes enyo needed a small boost but quite frankly the gallente AF's are on average pretty good already. How is hawk better? It has the lowest dps of the AF class afaik, and its shield boost bonus is 'meh'. Or were you thinking of the harpy?
Redpants Gallente Dead Eagle North Star Confederation	Posted - 2007.10.08 16:50:00 - [28] Originally by: Haffrage Gallente is stuck with drones, blasters, and then blasters/drones/missiles/pink. You got it right there brother. "My once immaculate white pants are now stained from the weak and innocent. I don't wear red."
Shevar Minmatar A.W.M Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.10.08 16:53:00 - [29] Originally by: Hurricane Originally by: Shevar Enyo is probably the 4th best AF out of 8. Only Jaguar, Ishkur and hawk are better, if the ishkur wasn't in that list then yes enyo needed a small boost but quite frankly the gallente AF's are on average pretty good already. How is hawk better? It has the lowest dps of the AF class afaik, and its shield boost bonus is 'meh'. Or were you thinking of the harpy? Yeah sniper harpy, excuse me. --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
Gabriel Magnar	Posted - 2007.10.08 23:16:00 - [30] I vote for Roden Mk II.
SirMoric	Posted - 2007.10.09 01:00:00 - [31] Originally by: Grapez and Amarr use flashlights. Unfortunately the Amarr missed the invention of the mirror...... rgds
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2007.10.09 02:34:00 - [32] We definitely need Roden Mk II. Especially the Ares and Eris need fixing, and the general ship design on the Roden Shiyards needs to be more focused.
Admiral Nova Strike Team Nova	Posted - 2007.10.09 03:14:00 - [33] Edited by: Admiral Nova on 09/10/2007 03:15:05 It worries me ship functionality is being designed to fit the models rather than the models designed to fit the ships.... If that doesn't immediately raise alarm bells I think some people need to find an entirely new proffession.
Pattern Clarc Reikoku	Posted - 2007.10.09 18:34:00 - [34] ...writes roden mk II speach Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus
Frug Zenithal Harvest BROTHER'S WORD	Posted - 2007.10.09 18:41:00 - [35] Edited by: Frug on 09/10/2007 18:41:35 You gallente hippies have enough good ships. Stop asking for more. Your stealth bomber has blasters for the same reason our sniper platforms have shield resist bonuses. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Sakura Nihil Stimulus	Posted - 2007.10.09 18:52:00 - [36] Edited by: Sakura Nihil on 09/10/2007 18:52:05 Originally by: Celedris Lachesis is totally fine as is. Knew you were going to find this thread Cele . PS: I doubt wanting to change the Deimos to being pink and with some missile power is going to happen. Eve Golden Rules
Daelin Blackleaf No Joy Corp Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.09 19:33:00 - [37] Roden design philosophy: Poor number of mids Lack of drones In exchange for: Split weapons system Theres also supposed to be improved armor but I'm not seeing it. We take two drawbacks and balance them with a third, great thinking. Of course this doesn't need fixing at all because Gallente have so many other great pvp ships. /sarcasm Lachesis and Nemesis have been assigned to companies who are the exact reverse of their design philosophy. A texture change could fix this and more effort could be made to assign each shipyard a design philosophy and stick to it in future. Future improvements/nerfs/tweaks made to ships that need them could be used to bring them more in-line with their shipyards. That is of course assuming you don't give shipyards the above noted philosophy of fail.
Pattern Clarc Reikoku	Posted - 2007.10.09 20:29:00 - [38] Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 09/10/2007 20:31:31 Originally by: Frug Edited by: Frug on 09/10/2007 18:41:35 You gallente hippies have enough good ships. Stop asking for more. Your stealth bomber has blasters for the same reason our sniper platforms have shield resist bonuses. Waa? Thats like saying electric cars have exhaust pipes for the same reason birds have wings... In other words, get a clue mate. actually, heres one for free... rokh + rails + 1-2x invul field II = DD proof.. Useful? I'm gunna go with YES Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus
Elodie Belanger Moonlight Sonata	Posted - 2007.10.09 20:53:00 - [39] Edited by: Elodie Belanger on 09/10/2007 20:54:45 No extensive changing of ship manufacturers on current T2 ships is unneccessary.. This will just overcomplicate things and risk destabilising even more Gallente ships. [Edit] Although a Nemesis/Lachesis switch would make a lot of sense. The current Roden ships just need to be looked at and given a proper identity, and for the love of god the T2 Dominix needs to be made by Creodon and not Roden what are you thinking CCP. The Ares is the only ship I know enough about to consider it confidently. Basically if it's ever going to do anything well, it needs to be turned into a missile tackler which can orbit between 15-20km, run a mwd and disruptor and use standard missiles (another launcher hardpoint added) to drop a modest but not stunning amount of DPS on its target. For the fast tackler role it needs a weapon system that can actually hit anything while going at 5km/s+, which is why the missiles. A bonus to propulsion jamming module cap usage would be a novel and useful bonus instead of one hybrid bonus and a missile explosion velocity (idk I'm not a missile user, this just seemed like it might give it a chance against other inties) instead of the other. I don't see it using rockets because it just can't use a web. This is frankly pretty disappointing because then it's just a Gallente and slightly different version of the Crow and Malediction. I always thought that a Creodron DRONERCEPTOR would be an interesting Gallente response to the Crow. It's the same idea as a nanoCrow with a disruptor - use a weapon system that will hit regardless of how fast your ship is flying around the target - but actually using GALLENTE weapons. It could have, say, 10m^3 drone bay with 20%(?) drone damage per interceptor level instead of the missile bonus and a drone velocity and tracking bonus instead of the hybrid damage bonus. Keep the hybrid tracking bonus, drop the two missiles and add another turret. Wham, a cool ship. Unfortunately I'm rambling and I doubt this will ever happen. Yet all experience is an arch wherethro' Gleams that untravell'd world, whose margin fades For ever and for ever when I move. Tennyson, Ulysses
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2007.10.09 20:56:00 - [40] I *****ed about Ares before, <<sniffles>> she needs to be looked at.
Haffrage Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.09 22:35:00 - [41] Originally by: Elodie Belanger I always thought that a Creodron DRONERCEPTOR would be an interesting Gallente response to the Crow. It's the same idea as a nanoCrow with a disruptor - use a weapon system that will hit regardless of how fast your ship is flying around the target - but actually using GALLENTE weapons. It could have, say, 10m^3 drone bay with 20%(?) drone damage per interceptor level instead of the missile bonus and a drone velocity and tracking bonus instead of the hybrid damage bonus. Keep the hybrid tracking bonus, drop the two missiles and add another turret. Wham, a cool ship. Unfortunately I'm rambling and I doubt this will ever happen. How did you know my solution to the Eris? :D I've had a writeup made for months, just never gotten around to posting it. Basically the same idea, only on the dictor, with 5 light drones and velocity/optimal bonuses with plenty of replacements. Bandwidth is the only thing that makes it possible. T2 Tier 2 Battlecruisers \| Eve GUI Tweaks
Pattern Clarc Reikoku	Posted - 2007.10.10 00:08:00 - [42] Originally by: Haffrage Originally by: Elodie Belanger I always thought that a Creodron DRONERCEPTOR would be an interesting Gallente response to the Crow. It's the same idea as a nanoCrow with a disruptor - use a weapon system that will hit regardless of how fast your ship is flying around the target - but actually using GALLENTE weapons. It could have, say, 10m^3 drone bay with 20%(?) drone damage per interceptor level instead of the missile bonus and a drone velocity and tracking bonus instead of the hybrid damage bonus. Keep the hybrid tracking bonus, drop the two missiles and add another turret. Wham, a cool ship. Unfortunately I'm rambling and I doubt this will ever happen. How did you know my solution to the Eris? :D I've had a writeup made for months, just never gotten around to posting it. Basically the same idea, only on the dictor, with 5 light drones and velocity/optimal bonuses with plenty of replacements. Bandwidth is the only thing that makes it possible. what to compare notes? On a side issuse, until they start making caldari drone ships (which, ironically would be closer to the feel of the origanal lore) then I don't really believe roden ships or any gallente ships should have a missile focus... Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus
Arana Tellen Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.10.10 00:12:00 - [43] Originally by: Pattern Clarc Originally by: Haffrage Originally by: Elodie Belanger I always thought that a Creodron DRONERCEPTOR would be an interesting Gallente response to the Crow. It's the same idea as a nanoCrow with a disruptor - use a weapon system that will hit regardless of how fast your ship is flying around the target - but actually using GALLENTE weapons. It could have, say, 10m^3 drone bay with 20%(?) drone damage per interceptor level instead of the missile bonus and a drone velocity and tracking bonus instead of the hybrid damage bonus. Keep the hybrid tracking bonus, drop the two missiles and add another turret. Wham, a cool ship. Unfortunately I'm rambling and I doubt this will ever happen. How did you know my solution to the Eris? :D I've had a writeup made for months, just never gotten around to posting it. Basically the same idea, only on the dictor, with 5 light drones and velocity/optimal bonuses with plenty of replacements. Bandwidth is the only thing that makes it possible. what to compare notes? On a side issuse, until they start making caldari drone ships (which, ironically would be closer to the feel of the origanal lore) then I don't really believe roden ships or any gallente ships should have a missile focus... Caldari went with frigates, gallente upgraded mines into drones to fight them. So how does that fit in at all? --------------------------------- Core 2 Duo E4300 1.8ghz @ 3ghz, 2GB Gskill DDR2 5400 @ 800mhh 4-4-4-12, Abit fatality mATX F-I90HD @ 334mhz, 8800GTS 320mb 2x250GB 7200.10s Raid 0, Vista 64 Home.
Pattern Clarc Reikoku	Posted - 2007.10.10 00:20:00 - [44] Originally by: Arana Tellen Caldari went with single pilot fighters, gallente upgraded mines into drones to fight them. Fixed Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus
Phrixus Zephyr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.10 00:32:00 - [45] Edited by: Phrixus Zephyr on 10/10/2007 00:33:26 I never understood why the Enyo and Nemesis were the manufacturers they were. It makes no sence. The ships might be fine, but the lore is broken. Nothing wrong with the Lachesis though. Roden and the ROF missle bonus is fine. Ares does it's job since a few patches ago, that much can be said for most interceptors, ie you see alot less of them these days so it doesn't matter so much. I think the raptor is the only one without a role now. Eris was the only 'dictor not to get a buff besides the Sabre, which sure as hell doesn't need one. Originally by: consider telos ..then we had a fight and he was so dead and then I like became champion of eve and then ccp gave me a medal and a t-shirt and asked me to go out with him on a date to mcD'
Arana Tellen Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.10.10 00:45:00 - [46] Those fighters became frigates in response to the drones --------------------------------- Core 2 Duo E4300 1.8ghz @ 3ghz, 2GB Gskill DDR2 5400 @ 800mhh 4-4-4-12, Abit fatality mATX F-I90HD @ 334mhz, 8800GTS 320mb 2x250GB 7200.10s Raid 0, Vista 64 Home.
Daelin Blackleaf No Joy Corp Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.10 14:29:00 - [47] Originally by: Pattern Clarc On a side issuse, until they start making caldari drone ships (which, ironically would be closer to the feel of the origanal lore) then I don't really believe roden ships or any gallente ships should have a missile focus... The Chimera and Wyvern fill the place of the Caldar fighter boat, they are not vastly superior as the Caldari moved into frigate construction during the war. As for missiles, they were intended to be a secondary weapon for all races, Caldari ships used to focus heavily on rails (yes the raven was a rail boat once), there is no lore to back up a Caldari monopoly on missiles, in fact with the missiles themselves being produce of all the different empires, and the fact that t2 ships are modern modifications on older designs then there really is no reason a shipyard couldn't logically decide to have launchers with one of it's upgrade kits. The original intent was for missiles to be a secondary weapon system. Thankfully that was changed, but the fact that only Caldari (whose role has always been long range sniping which lets face it missiles are useless for) has dedicated missile boats strikes me as wrong. As for drones, I'm not against drone bonuses on Caldari ships, but the main purpose of drones on a long range sniper is to keep tacklers off you since drones won't be traveling the 200km+ to the target. For this task light drones are in fact superior and so the much maligned Caldari drone bay is quite sufficient for it's task. t2 ships with bonuses to sentry drone range and/or damage would be quite fitting however.
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.10.10 14:42:00 - [48] Originally by: Pattern Clarc Eris 8x highs (6 turrets + grid) 2 mids 4 lows That would still make it a useless piece of ****. Intedictors need an mwd, a web and a scram, anything less and you might as well bring a tackling navitas to the battlefield ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Pattern Clarc Reikoku	Posted - 2007.10.11 01:14:00 - [49] Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Originally by: Pattern Clarc Eris 8x highs (6 turrets + grid) 2 mids 4 lows That would still make it a useless piece of ****. Intedictors need an mwd, a web and a scram, anything less and you might as well bring a tackling navitas to the battlefield Dictors are more work able without the usual 3 midslot layout (mainy because of the probe launcher, however it's not right that khanid ships generally have equal mids/lows and the eris has been left in the gutter with the bogey slot layout. Fine - however, for the eris to have the same amount of hit points as the sabre, it would be going 20-40% as fast, doing less damage, without a web or a scram which equals unbalanced. From my point of view, this is fine, bnot all ships are made equal, they just have to have a niche, a reason for using it instead of another in certain situations, and sadley, there just isn't one for the eris.... My suggestion would be to significantly reduce the mass (ie, making faster and compensating for any tank it would carry) improve the grid/cpu, add a turret whilst removing the drone whilst getting rid of the missile bonuses in favour of turret damage, range and tracking bonuses... Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus
Jennai The Silent Rage M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.10.11 03:21:00 - [50] Eris badly needs more cpu/grid, it really sucks to fit.
Pattern Clarc Reikoku	Posted - 2007.10.12 02:08:00 - [51] Originally by: Jennai Eris badly needs more cpu/grid, it really sucks to fit. I think it needs more cpu than most, the fly catcher recently got a cpu boost, I think it's time for the eris to be looked at - whilst there at it, the whole roden line. Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus

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