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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 10 post(s)

CCP kieron	Posted - 2007.10.10 17:45:00 - [1] The current Killmail system is showing its age. With advances in ship design such as freighters and their tremendous cargo capacity, NPCs holding the possibility of dealing the 'final blow', truncations, and more, it is apparent that a revamp is overdue. Enter our resident API wizard, Garthagk. He has, with the assistance of Chronotis, Kalmukaru, and t20, taken ownership of the Killmail system and started a major redesign. This new system, Killmail mk 1.5, will include a number of changes and improvements that will not only be more intuitive, but also be more informative, easier to view and best of all, won't generate additional database lag. With no further ado, an introduction to The Killmail Mk 1.5 Project. kieron Director of Community Relations, EVE Online EVE Online, CCP Games Email/Netfang Look Ma, I'm in a Dev thread! Oh wait...

Rhaegor Stormborn Pestilent Industries Amalgamated	Posted - 2007.10.10 17:49:00 - [2] Awesome. Rhaegor Stormborn Fleet Admiral - Pestilent Industries Amalgamated [PIA] Recruitment Thread
Felben Modoltov	Posted - 2007.10.10 17:56:00 - [3] Sounds great--the amount of damage dealt is a nice touch. What will happen to old killmails? Will they be imported to the new database somehow, or is this information going to be lost?
Charlie Crocodile Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.10.10 17:58:00 - [4] Great Dev Blog, can't wait to see these changes implemented. CC Signature inappropriate for Teen rated forum. Mail us at [email protected] if you require further information - Valorem
Andargor theWise Collateral Damage Unlimited Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.10 18:00:00 - [5] Nice. Will you stop sending the mails when the API has been upgraded? - Stop the Feature Glut: Take the API to the Next Level
Seleene Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.10 18:04:00 - [6] Currently, if your corp loses a starbase tower or any modules connected to it, you get a loss mail for that. So... Will I, person DOING THE KILLING, get a 'mail' for that now? Will we, the people doing the killing, finally be able to track the numbers of towers and POS modules lost in a military campaign? - THIS FLEET FOR RENT!
Azrael Maxim Flexible Demeanour	Posted - 2007.10.10 18:10:00 - [7] Will it show destroyed implants if any when you make a podkill ?
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2007.10.10 18:12:00 - [8] Great, really great. A big step ahead! Especially the corp (and alliance?) kills sound like a really sweet thing. Also it is always nice to learn a bit more how things are working at CCP, good blog there.
Gridwalker	Posted - 2007.10.10 18:21:00 - [9] This is the sort of insight into new features that makes EVE such an exciting universe to live in, and CCP such a unique company. Nice work on the design--it is exactly what I hoped would be implemented! -Grid
Cyberman Mastermind	Posted - 2007.10.10 18:26:00 - [10] I'm curious about this: Quote: Killmails going to NPCs. Will not happen. If there are any players involved, the player with the highest damage done to the victim will be granted the final blow. I hope the part not written is "The NPCs are still listed as actively shooting at the victim" ? Because otherwise expect a huge rise in kills where the heroic attacker chose a target already weakened by NPCs. (Second try to post. Didn't show first time?) -------------------------------------------------- I'm a rich person. How I know? I can afford to be a miner.
Altaree Red Frog Investments Blue Sky Consortium	Posted - 2007.10.10 18:35:00 - [11] Two devblogs in one day? You are spoiling us!
Carrie Me	Posted - 2007.10.10 18:38:00 - [12] This is GOLD. Now I may have to get my develop hat on and start writing statistical tools based on the API you will release. It would be really great to see what ships are dealing/taking most damage and in what types of fleet they are most successful. Although this might expose a little too much some of the tactics of the more successful pvpers, I'd view it as a great learning tool for people like me who tend to freeze like rabbits in headlights as soon as a red appears. Great work CCP and please continue along these lines of exposing more API content, it really makes this community buzz.
Dire Lauthris Bridgeburners Squadron	Posted - 2007.10.10 18:39:00 - [13] Awesome stuff! No more stressing about killmails. \o/ ------ [The Exiled]
Carrie Me	Posted - 2007.10.10 18:40:00 - [14] Will the system also allow for damage repaired ? otherwise some figures may not add up.
Altaree Red Frog Investments Blue Sky Consortium	Posted - 2007.10.10 18:41:00 - [15] WOW! I will get to see the full setups of the ships that got killed? All I can say is WOOO HOOO!
Adam C 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.10.10 18:46:00 - [16] Hey. Will I be able to view my history of kills or just the kills I take part in after the Implementation?
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.10 19:05:00 - [17] This is awesome, you are awesome.
General StarScream THE DECEPTIC0NS	Posted - 2007.10.10 19:22:00 - [18] Edited by: General StarScream on 10/10/2007 19:24:25 Great stuff, very nice ide and layout. aa yes, with the new strategic star map, this would be cool if you could load up or something like that your losses and kills, to see where you killed or lost ships, and shuch, or starebase structure, if this map could show your poses in systems and numbers of moons and such as well, it would truly be epic.

CCP Garthagk	Posted - 2007.10.10 19:24:00 - [19] Edited by: CCP Garthagk on 10/10/2007 19:24:50 To answer some questions: The new system will basically start a "new world order" of killmails. The old ones, as they are text and not in a suitable format for our purposes, will not be imported into the new system. And new kills will not show up in your "mail", but you can still copy the text format for your own logs, killboards, etc. Yes, POS and structure kills show up in your kill list. I've got a row of tracking arrays and various structures in my character sheet right now. NPCs will still show up on the mail, they just can't get final blow. (Unless they're the only entity on the kill! If you die to NPCs, it still shows you lost your pretty ship to a bunch of measly Gurista scum...) For the question about amount repaired - it's total damage taken over time. So if your tank is going and going, you'll see that you took lots of damage, way more than you have HP. So in a fleet fight, you get popped and it shows 15,000 or whatever your structure+shield+armor is, but in a smaller engagement that lasts longer it might show several times that. And I'm really curious to see the results of supercaps going down. Hope that answers your questions so far! -------------- Garthagk - EVE Software Group - EVE API Guy To err is human to really ***** up takes admins. -Hellmar

Quutar Ars ex Discordia	Posted - 2007.10.10 19:29:00 - [20] will there be a way for corps to access the loss mails of all of their members via API... or will each member have to register their own API with a kill board? and... in the "confirmed kills" section of the char sheet... will only kills that you got the last shot... or most damage (in the case of NPCs) show up... or all the kills you were part of? Quutar Research Services Selling Amarr Outpost BPCs ME:10
Tareen Kashaar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.10.10 19:31:00 - [21] Good vibrations! This is gonna rock. I imagine a new tab in the corporation window as well, to allow directors to review what their members have lost when and where? Also, why send the kill to only the person with the highest damage dealt - Why not list them in everyone's kill sheet instead? Final blow can still be a bragging rights thing, but it would make things so much more practical in mixed engagements. HF with the programming work :D --- WTS: Forum Signatures, price negotiable. Evemail me!
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.10 19:38:00 - [22] Originally by: CCP Garthagk Edited by: CCP Garthagk on 10/10/2007 19:24:50 To answer some questions: The new system will basically start a "new world order" of killmails. The old ones, as they are text and not in a suitable format for our purposes, will not be imported into the new system. And new kills will not show up in your "mail", but you can still copy the text format for your own logs, killboards, etc. Yes, POS and structure kills show up in your kill list. I've got a row of tracking arrays and various structures in my character sheet right now. NPCs will still show up on the mail, they just can't get final blow. (Unless they're the only entity on the kill! If you die to NPCs, it still shows you lost your pretty ship to a bunch of measly Gurista scum...) For the question about amount repaired - it's total damage taken over time. So if your tank is going and going, you'll see that you took lots of damage, way more than you have HP. So in a fleet fight, you get popped and it shows 15,000 or whatever your structure+shield+armor is, but in a smaller engagement that lasts longer it might show several times that. And I'm really curious to see the results of supercaps going down. Hope that answers your questions so far! Will there be a delay so as to not cause status update lag? Or will it be possible to have that as an option?[just figuring that since mails lag you out when you get them, these would likly as well] Will this new data be minable by CCP?[id assume yes] Do you plan on incorporating this new data into game balance testing and decisions?
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.10.10 19:47:00 - [23] Even though a functional killmail system is only going to cause me embarrassment, I think this is completely awesome. Great work. :) Originally by: CCP Garthagk NPCs will still show up on the mail, they just can't get final blow. (Unless they're the only entity on the kill! If you die to NPCs, it still shows you lost your pretty ship to a bunch of measly Gurista scum...) * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Dr Aryandi Hematite Rose Bionic Dawn	Posted - 2007.10.10 19:49:00 - [24] It's probably too complex but will assists show on killmails? For example if I remote rep or sensor boost someone it may be instrumental to them getting a kill/surviving - but atm I do not appear on the mail at all. I should be listed as assisting in the kill if I aid any of the people doing the killing - just as having done 0 damage. Blueprint Research Service Available See thread for details.
Ishina Fel Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.10.10 19:51:00 - [25] Lookin good! Buff room for large link addresses in sigs plz :(
Zilkin Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.10.10 19:53:00 - [26] Originally by: Azrael Maxim Will it show destroyed implants if any when you make a podkill ? Can you answer this question please ? :)
Tzrailasa Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.10 20:02:00 - [27] Originally by: Zilkin Originally by: Azrael Maxim Will it show destroyed implants if any when you make a podkill ? Can you answer this question please ? :) ...And if the answer is 'no', please change it to a 'yes' My views are my own. They do not represent the views of my corporation or alliance.
Vayla Bellurdan Fusion Enterprises Ltd Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.10.10 20:14:00 - [28] Yeah, being able to see destroyed implants would really be golden.
Shaun Livingstone Amarr White Wolf Enterprises	Posted - 2007.10.10 20:15:00 - [29] Excellent :) With the API thingie, that means the killboards can be updated automagically on a hourly basis kinda like how EveMON works? Without anyone having to post their own killmails anymore, that is... No, I'm not a coder, I'm a lover! Explain this to meeeeeeeeeee.
Solar Shard	Posted - 2007.10.10 20:20:00 - [30] podmails and implant changes happening??? If not, when?
Aramendel Amarr North Face Force	Posted - 2007.10.10 20:35:00 - [31] Edited by: Aramendel on 10/10/2007 20:41:21 What about when someone selfdestructs? With bigger ships, especially capitals, you can get into a situation where you can do nothing to prevent getting killed, but are going down only slowly. It happens frequently that people then initiate a selfdestruct for 2 reasons: - to prevent that their killers get any loot (since SD kills almost everything) - to prevent that their killers get a confirmation of the kill (since no mail is sent) Will the new killmail system recognize such a type of kill? Of cource, technically they did not "kill" the ship, but they caused without any shadow of a doubt the destruction of it.
Osiris Occido Laughing Leprechauns Corporation	Posted - 2007.10.10 20:59:00 - [32] looking forward to the changes, long overdue overhaul Perfect Quality with Windows Movie Maker
Vitaki Rens 911	Posted - 2007.10.10 21:03:00 - [33] Will there be an easier way to tell if a given bpo was a copy or an origional when you get a kill?
Kvarium Ki Legion Du Lys GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.10 21:45:00 - [34] This is interesting but what will happen when someone has 6 or 7 thousand kill mails? Will it take an hour to open his/her character sheet? I hope you are taking this into consideration and doing some tests on that. Personaly I wouldn't mind if this feature was only accessible out of game via a web interface.
IlluminatedOne Amarr Tycho Brahe Fan Club	Posted - 2007.10.10 21:48:00 - [35] Originally by: Kvarium Ki This is interesting but what will happen when someone has 6 or 7 thousand kill mails? Will it take an hour to open his/her character sheet? I think (I hope...) that it'll be like a Transactions tab in a Wallet, i.e. a dozen of records and a "previous"/"next" arrows.
Tonto Auri	Posted - 2007.10.10 22:09:00 - [36] Sounds good... -- Thanks CCP for cu<end of sig>
Dal Rath	Posted - 2007.10.10 22:11:00 - [37] Last I heard the reporting of lost implants had been nixed by game design. Still, this is a big step forward. Now that the data is reliable it opens up the possibility of player to player insurance covering modules as well as ships, with pricing tailored to cover (high sec only, low sec, 0.0, PvE, PvP, etc) and individual history (kill/loss ratio). Anyone want in on the first insurance company IPO in EVE?
Sky Marshal Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.10.10 23:10:00 - [38] It would be a bad idea to do implants too, because this will permit to make fun of the killed player, specialy if he had good implants... I hope that damage statistics will not create the same situation between good and bad damage dealer. Yes, I hate statistics in general ^^
Kurann Amarr	Posted - 2007.10.10 23:20:00 - [39] would it be possible to differentiate between BPC and BPO's on the new kill mail's dropped/destroyed list?
sableye principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.10 23:22:00 - [40] only thing that is gonna be annoying is I blow up noob ships/shuttles up outside stations (in iac space) often that have been abondend now if I do this it will mess up my kill sheet with useless stuff and also mess up any automated system for killboards unless of course you take into account that an empty ship is not a true kill but then you get the cases were people eject just before death so no idea what you can do with this. Join The Fight With Promo Today
Darkwolfi	Posted - 2007.10.10 23:29:00 - [41] What if an attacker has the aggresion on a ship but say he dies before you, but you then stray of and get blown up by rats or sentries, would that still credit (get him a mail) the dead player for the kill even if, say he practically had no influence on the death?
Feng Schui Minmatar The Ninja Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.11 00:12:00 - [42] It seems like you guys want to have a "play by play", however, will it show damage done by drones? other than that, I will add nothing to this thread.
Random Womble Minmatar Master Miners Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.11 00:55:00 - [43] As has allready mention why not add in remote repping info it might work especially well with the inclusion of damage taken surely you could show damage remotely healed and by whom giving logistics pilots a small measurement of their sucess also it would add to the cap kills where carriers can have huge ammounts repped. Other than the minor issue of the pilot dieing being a slight failure for a logistics pilot this could to an extent show how much each entity is using logistics and how well it is being used.
Ares Splinter Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.10.11 02:40:00 - [44] So in the future with the API we could see automatic killboards. Each member just registers themselves and the killboard updates automatically using the API.... That would be awesome, no more missing killmails or lossmails...
Tareen Kashaar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.10.11 02:42:00 - [45] /me pokes Garthagk for more answers --- WTS: Forum Signatures, price negotiable. Evemail me!
R0ot Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.11 04:37:00 - [46] Some nice things it that blog And the "programmer art" is nice so can't wait for the artists take on it ------------------------------------------------------------------
James Potkukelkka Karjala Inc. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.10.11 04:44:00 - [47] And the destroyed implants in pods? Can we see them too? --
Ferocious FeAr Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.11 05:07:00 - [48] Edited by: Ferocious FeAr on 11/10/2007 05:08:52 How much information (kills) can it hold? Don't hate me, learn to love me
Gem 2Grind	Posted - 2007.10.11 05:46:00 - [49] Edited by: Gem 2Grind on 11/10/2007 05:47:36 This looks really cool but I have some concerns: With the inclusion of both Dropped & destroyed modules any one that reads the kill can see the fit out. which is fine & great. Until you started talking about being able to search for KM's. Will I have permission to control who sees my KM's in game? or will all the searching be done/controlled out side eve on Kill broads? Can I suggest a selection like: - me only - My corp - My ally - every one The Reason I ask is there is no perfect fit, all fits have a way to be killed. If you can search then I can search in game for known fleet fits for XX Corp if my corp is starting a war with them and fit our fleet to combat that. Also on this point, I'm guessing from what you said here that there is no change to the details on the killers other than the DPS stuff? Will it mean that you will see multi-able weapons in the KM from the killers? will EW still be in there? If the Searching will be all out of game, it would be cool for the Kill board designers to thing about this stuff. That way you could have full view to trusted users & limited veiw on ur corps loses as to not give up Corp fit outs. just thoughts, sry it's a bit long :) enjoy
Fenlaw	Posted - 2007.10.11 05:58:00 - [50] Gem 2Grind my guess is that when he mentions that they can search the killmails he is referring to the fact that they are now stored in a structured database format and thus CCP has the ability to use a query language to poke around like they want. This does not mean that there will be any kind of search functionality available to the community. He also states that the killmail will be exposed with the help of the EVE API which requires the player to activly give ut his limited API key. If you are unsure how the API keys work, please refer to http://myeve.eve-online.com/api/ for more information. They might had some sort of filter parameters (for instance pass in a date range or a system name) for the API query but thats for the future to reveale. All in all, this is going to be lovely. To the developers of killboard please make is so that the admin section has the ability to track (a) who has entered their API key and (b) if any key appears to be invalid (i.e API calls using it that fail).
Templer Relleg Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.10.11 06:42:00 - [51] Edited by: Templer Relleg on 11/10/2007 06:43:09 I bow for you, Garthagk. Even the non-artistic screenshot looks awesome One thing, i hope really much that you will do, is pod mails and their implants. Pretty please? And when will we be able to test this on sisi?
Ambo 2nd Outcasters	Posted - 2007.10.11 07:42:00 - [52] This sounds great - good effort. On the subject of the API functionality, I'm assuming that you will only be able to get info for a character that you have the UID and APIKey for. Do you know yet if this will require the high or low security key?
Leya Marcsson	Posted - 2007.10.11 07:54:00 - [53] Edited by: Leya Marcsson on 11/10/2007 07:54:48 What about the ECM guys doing no damage? Do they get listed in the kill?
Logi3 Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.10.11 08:06:00 - [54] Theres a big on the old KM System which i hope wont be in the new. Lock target and make warp scramble your first action, firing weapons second. Remove point. Target gets destroyed, and your not on the KM! ----
Nefeylia Ira Lyonesse. United Legion	Posted - 2007.10.11 10:06:00 - [55] Looks great and will simplify many programming jobs \o/ Maybe I missed it, but when will the new System start? As part of Rev3 or as an extra Update in 3.x? ---
Dav Varan	Posted - 2007.10.11 10:55:00 - [56] Looks fantastic. Great work guys. And the "art" is just fine ;) , functional thats all we need
Windryder New Fnord Industries Black Scope Project	Posted - 2007.10.11 12:11:00 - [57] What about Ransoms? How about an in-game mechanic for paying/receiving a ransom that generates killmail data on who, where, what ship/pod and how much? This could then be read into a killboard and added to the "Isk Damages" stats (or even to a ransom total). At the moment you can rake in the billions by ransoming ships but this makes your efficiency look crap because the killboard doesn't recognise anything but value destroyed.
Edgars Sults LFC	Posted - 2007.10.11 12:23:00 - [58] Very good job. I approve. Although, I really hope it doesn't increase the lag too much in fleet fights. We have enough lag as it is.

CCP Garthagk	Posted - 2007.10.11 12:48:00 - [59] Lots of questions, and now some answers! These are slightly scrambled, I just pulled general questions out, so don't be offended if I didn't quote you directly. 1) When will this be released? This is part of our upcoming expansion due in November! 2) Will there be implants in podmails? Design has shot this one down. If you would really like to see this, you'll have to convince Hammerhead of how awesome it'd be to have full details of that bit of biomass you're holding in your hangar. I mean, you've got his corpse, should be able to pull open the head and see what's inside. Right? Maybe that's just me. 3) Who can see my kills/losses? Don't worry, we're not changing the rules here. The only people who can see kills (right now) are the person who get assigned the final blow and the victim. This applies to the API as well. We have the technical capability to serve mails for your corp/alliance/etc no problem, but we haven't made a decision on if/how we're going to use this functionality in the game or API. 4) How many kills can it hold? Will it explode under its own weight? It's designed to be limitless. The system holds kills until the cows come home - and then some, probably, sticking around for the milking. Your character sheet will only show the most recent 25 kills and losses, however, but you can scroll back through the list to view older ones. We take full advantage of the caching built into the system. It also does no information processing or loading at kill time, so you do not have to worry about your client slowing down in fleet fights due to kills being processed. It's all server side aside from one message to your client saying 'kills changed'. The client then invalidates its local cache, but doesn't do anything else. 5) What if I die and then the person dies to rats? How does a kill actually get decided anyway? The system tracks data in what it calls engagements. These last for 15 minutes from the time of the last activity, based on the involved parties. When something explodes, all of the parties that are listed in the engagement are considered as parties of the kill. (I am simplifying somewhat, as you can imagine EVE is a complex system, and has many rules and exceptions to those rules to cover the myriad edge and corner cases.) By and large, changing session clears the participants of your active engagement, but not the fact that you were in one. So if your victim jumps, then gets blown up on the other side, you will often not see yourself on the killmail if you didn't make it through to the destination system and re-aggress. How this ends up working out is that if you attack someone, flee or die, and later that person dies, you can still end up on the killmail if you are still on the person's active engagement list. Otherwise not. The system itself is not changing much for this release. What is classified as a kill, who gets on it, what it shows, all of that is going to be remaining fairly static. The system could use a more complete overhaul end to end, but that's not in scope for this release. 6) Self-destruct is lame. At this time, the behavior hasn't changed. I don't see any reason it can't change, but that'd be up to the design group. I'll point them at this discussion and see if they have an opinion. 7) Blueprints in list: original? copy? I'm not certain if this data is easily available, or if we'd want to show it. I'll touch base with the design guys and see what they think. -------------- Garthagk - EVE Software Group - EVE API Guy To err is human to really ***** up takes admins. -Hellmar

Viashivan Amarr FM Corp Insomnia.	Posted - 2007.10.11 13:31:00 - [60] awesome Blog. Don't realy know what to ask. :-) /me eagerly awaits the result
Zarch AlDain The Establishment Establishment	Posted - 2007.10.11 13:38:00 - [61] Looks excellent, just two requests when you add the API though: 1. Add a new limitted api key (kills api key or something) that provides this info only. It's fine in my case cos we are a small corp and trust each other but I would be dubious about giving even my limitted api key to some random alliance I was just joining. 2. Can we please please please have a "change user" option on the API page. At the moment its a right pain getting API keys when you have multiple accounts as you need to go to the forums, log out, then go back to the API page, etc etc. (Unless there is something I have missed?) Zarch AlDain
Dillon Arklight Unit 14	Posted - 2007.10.11 14:09:00 - [62] Looks great. It is a shame that when you have a corpse at your mercy you cant rip it open to find out what implants it has, but maybe thats something for the furture is Hammerhead reconsiders.
Kropotkin Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2007.10.11 14:11:00 - [63] Not to be disagreeable or anything, but ... Isn't this the kind of Creaping Featuritis that drives up Lag?
Danny Centurai New Age Solutions New Age Solutions Amalgamated	Posted - 2007.10.11 14:30:00 - [64] I love you No more flying support in a fleet shooting at god knows how many carriers and never seeing a mail because of it. Much love from me and most likely everyone who has ever flown in a large fleet.
Khan Soriano Beyond Divinity Inc Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2007.10.11 14:37:00 - [65] I understand that when we were using TEXT-MAIL based system the decision about sending the mail only to one attacker and the victim was done so that not only the one putting the final blow got his ego boost but also to ease the lag (not sending 2 mails vs 10-20). But now that we have a proper database-oriented system its just plain silly to maintain this pattern. If you fix most of our KM related problems (hint: implants) then please reconsider being able to view all kills that the pilot was a part of. I looked up to this change not because of the minor tweaks here and there or performance improvement, but because I thought 'no more inaccurate, incomplete KM data on KBs'. If you leave it like this again we are still at the mercy of some 'other' pilot that got the mail but didn't upload it to the boards!! ----- Arbitrator - Life & Death
Tusko Hopkins HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded	Posted - 2007.10.11 15:06:00 - [66] If you are already changing the killmail generation code around, can you please get two more things sorted? 1) Which module was in which slot This was in long, long ago (format was something like "Warp disruptor I (Fitted - Medium Slot), but recently it only says (Cargo) or nothing. However, if stuff is in a container, it does not put anything into the specific line, so it is not so easy to parse. I would like to see this information back. 2) Proper indication of weapon type In the current system the indication of the attackers weapon is pretty erratic. Looking at the killmails, I found that: if the attacker used a gun, and his last shot hit, it says the gun's name (425mm Railgun if the attacker used a gun, and his last shot didnt hit, it says his ship class (Megathron) if the attacker used a launcher, and the last action he did was a missile hit, it says the missiles name (Devastator Cruise Missile) if the attacker used a launcher, and the last action he did was launching a missile, it says the missile launchers name (Cruise Missile Launcher I) Because of this, the weapon usage statistics on the killbaords are all screwed, they include weapons, missiles, ships, not very nice. Can you get these things fixed?
RiotRick Black-Sun	Posted - 2007.10.11 15:14:00 - [67] With the new system, only the 'Final Blow' person will get the mail added to their killist? Why not have it in the killist of every involved party? Seems so much more logical to do it that way. Otherwise great, much needed changes :)
Helison Gallente Times of Ancar Pure.	Posted - 2007.10.11 16:25:00 - [68] Two requests (they are already in this thread, but they are quite important): 1) Please make it possible to retrieve all killmails, of which you are part of (and not only if you scored the last shot). It would be ok to make them accessible only by API/MyEve-page, but please include it in any way. It¦s not fun to check all killboards after multi-alliance engagements to gather all the killmails. 2) Please include implants. If Hammerhead insists on his position, please make him to write an explanation of his refusal.
KarateKid D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.11 16:40:00 - [69] Originally by: Helison Two requests (they are already in this thread, but they are quite important): 1) Please make it possible to retrieve all killmails, of which you are part of (and not only if you scored the last shot). It would be ok to make them accessible only by API/MyEve-page, but please include it in any way. It¦s not fun to check all killboards after multi-alliance engagements to gather all the killmails. 2) Please include implants. If Hammerhead insists on his position, please make him to write an explanation of his refusal. Just wanted to quote this because I totally agree! ________________________________________________________
Leya Marcsson	Posted - 2007.10.11 16:41:00 - [70] Edited by: Leya Marcsson on 11/10/2007 16:42:39 Originally by: CCP Garthagk The only people who can see kills (right now) are the person who get assigned the final blow and the victim. Pretty please, let all ppl who fight the target down get a info about the kill. Also it would be nice if the ECM guys are included. Its cruel to be forced to gimp a ECM fitting to make it into a killmail.
Buyerr	Posted - 2007.10.11 16:43:00 - [71] Edited by: Buyerr on 11/10/2007 16:44:05 okey why again should you be able to see which modules the victum had on?! this is so freaking stupid :S i mean seriusly, "yer ty i would like to know excatly what each npc had on him when i kill it WITHOUT having to fly over to it " .. baaahh.... got your head on straight.. well my 2isk ps. besides that, killboards whoring should not be incuraging. but else AWSOME new system ^^
Donathan Slade Kay Korporation Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.10.11 16:44:00 - [72] I believe that without my suggestion, the new system will nerf drone pilots. My suggestion is as follows: Drone pilots rely on their drones for DPS, (Curse, Dommy, Myrm, Vexor...) and without their drones, their DPS is minimal because they receive bonuses to drone damage and not to their own weapons. If drones are drones, and players are players, players flying these ships will never get the final blow because their Ogre II's could be ripping into a ship and helping get max damage but will never get the final blow on the killmail. SO, why not calculate the drone damage done and add it to the "controller's" total damage. This way, the true damage of these drone ships is calculated. The reason I say "controller" is because a carrier pilot doesn't get damage assigned unless "he" is controlling the fighters. So, if a carrier delegates fighters, the damage that the fighters do would be added to the DPS of the person that they were delegated to. Without this, the true damage done by the pilot and all his weapons will not be counted. This goes for fighters as well because it is the delegated pilot who is controlling the drones to victory of damage. Or, exclude fighter damage unless the carrier is controlling the fighters. So that damage does not go crazy.. However, drones from ships like the myrm, vexor, and the like need to have their drone damage added to their damage or these pilots will never get kill mails as the ships themselves don't put out the damage of say, a drake or a raven. Please consider this.
Buyerr	Posted - 2007.10.11 16:46:00 - [73] Originally by: Donathan Slade I believe that without my suggestion, the new system will nerf drone pilots. My suggestion is as follows: Drone pilots rely on their drones for DPS, (Curse, Dommy, Myrm, Vexor...) and without their drones, their DPS is minimal because they receive bonuses to drone damage and not to their own weapons. i read that though wtf?! domi don't get a drone dps bonus, it get hybrid bonus :S and then my thought, he don't got a clue what he is saying...
Moon Dogg Gallente The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.10.11 16:50:00 - [74] Edited by: Moon Dogg on 11/10/2007 16:51:23 Edited by: Moon Dogg on 11/10/2007 16:50:18 Originally by: Buyerr Originally by: Donathan Slade I believe that without my suggestion, the new system will nerf drone pilots. My suggestion is as follows: Drone pilots rely on their drones for DPS, (Curse, Dommy, Myrm, Vexor...) and without their drones, their DPS is minimal because they receive bonuses to drone damage and not to their own weapons. i read that though wtf?! domi don't get a drone dps bonus, it get hybrid bonus :S and then my thought, he don't got a clue what he is saying... Ummm, from EveMon Skill Planner: ******* The Dominix is one of the the old warhorses.... ....Special Ability: 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret damage and 10% bonus to drone hitpoints and damage per skill level. Now I'm just a miner geek, so I hardly spend any time in my dusty old Domi. Is the EveMon lying to me? ********************************* "Burn the land, boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me..."
Donathan Slade Kay Korporation Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.10.11 16:53:00 - [75] ECON RECOMENDATION as well as killmail. As you know, many kill boards keep track of the "value" of the items lost. Would it be possible to once a week, or once every other week to have a process run which calculates the average price of the markets in eve for that specific item. This way, when they are added to the kill mails, we have relatively accurate price information on how much a person lost in total.
Donathan Slade Kay Korporation Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.10.11 16:55:00 - [76] Originally by: Moon Dogg Edited by: Moon Dogg on 11/10/2007 16:51:23 Edited by: Moon Dogg on 11/10/2007 16:50:18 Originally by: Buyerr Originally by: Donathan Slade I believe that without my suggestion, the new system will nerf drone pilots. My suggestion is as follows: Drone pilots rely on their drones for DPS, (Curse, Dommy, Myrm, Vexor...) and without their drones, their DPS is minimal because they receive bonuses to drone damage and not to their own weapons. i read that though wtf?! domi don't get a drone dps bonus, it get hybrid bonus :S and then my thought, he don't got a clue what he is saying... Ummm, from EveMon Skill Planner: ******* The Dominix is one of the the old warhorses.... ....Special Ability: 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret damage and 10% bonus to drone hitpoints and damage per skill level**. Now I'm just a miner geek, so I hardly spend any time in my dusty old Domi. Is the EveMon lying to me? Um, no. :P It gets the damage. Thats why I use a Domi for ratting :)
Chruker	Posted - 2007.10.11 18:12:00 - [77] Garthagk, will POS gunners (by name) show up on the kills? Or will it be just the POS/structure. Are there any kind of filtering. Like if a heavy tanker tanks for hours and hours before he finally decides to end the fight? ----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi - Speedup IGB table rendering
Veng3ance New Dawn Rising Synchr0nicity	Posted - 2007.10.11 18:13:00 - [78] I will admit I'm a bit disappointed that you are not including implants for pod kills, however I must say this is an AWESOME change overall, thank you.
Scimon Tinker	Posted - 2007.10.11 18:17:00 - [79] hey hey Is there any possiility for every character who participated to get the KM added to their Char Sheet. If your a "tackler" then your kill sheet may forever be empty.
James Potkukelkka Karjala Inc. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.10.11 18:43:00 - [80] Oh please. Doing such a nice feature but leaving the most important thing -podkills- out would be a mistake. --
Saba Quiestador AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.10.11 18:47:00 - [81] Can you please figure out some way to include dictor pilots on killmails? If I dictor a blob of 15 battleships during a fleet engagement, resulting in 13 of them getting tackled and killed... I get on 0 killmails. It would sure be nice if I got on the killmail once in a while, even if it was only if they tried to warp during the engagement and were denied. Of course, this would also mean that once in a while I get on friendly killmails (possibly even my own!), but I'm ok with that - if I dropped the bubble and a friendly died inside, perhaps I should be on their killmail. If nothing else, it shows who the poor dictor pilots are when you look at your alliance killboard...
Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2007.10.11 19:23:00 - [82] for pod kills showing implants, i think you should be able to find out what implants were involved, but i do NOT think the system should give this to you for free in the killmail. If you want to know, you should have to scoop the frozen body, take it back to a pos or station, "salvage" the body to get the info. Later, we can add cool stuff you can get from bodies that had implants, that you could use for some process like drug manufacturing or the like. would add a neat element to the game i think, and makes you work for information thats potentially embarrasing for you enemy. other stuff like seeing all kills you are involved in can come later after the system is rolled out. At least with this system it will be possible. Originally by: Snuggly It's just so great to have an actual reason to not die, incentive is fantastic!
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.11 19:36:00 - [83] Edited by: Goumindong on 11/10/2007 19:37:47 Originally by: CCP Garthagk 3) Who can see my kills/losses? Don't worry, we're not changing the rules here. The only people who can see kills (right now) are the person who get assigned the final blow and the victim. This applies to the API as well. We have the technical capability to serve mails for your corp/alliance/etc no problem, but we haven't made a decision on if/how we're going to use this functionality in the game or API. This is a perfect use for say, a limited use API key. You could even tie corp/alliance limited use API keys to player API keys through an association feature and then allow alliances to design alliance spanning killboards, or even alliance encompasing killboards that could automatically update through limited use API keys. Alternatly, this could be a check-box option to allow your kills/losses to be applied to the corp/alliance API.[an opt-in system] Obviously not something that is likly to be implemented in the first version, but certianly something that ought to be thought about since that functionality would be great.
Vim Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.11 21:53:00 - [84] Is it just me that feel rigs shouldnt be on the km? They are after all changes to parts of your ship and not a module per se, if you want to know the rigs, bring a analyzer and the skills to do a technical report on the wreck =) Yes, I do feel rig combinations is one of the last pieces of information you can have to yourself out there, secret of the trade so to say =) /* Whats a guy got to do to get a smile off around here */
Eraggan Sadarr Phoenix Tribe	Posted - 2007.10.11 22:03:00 - [85] Edited by: Eraggan Sadarr on 11/10/2007 22:03:47 Originally by: Donathan Slade I believe that without my suggestion, the new system will nerf drone pilots. My suggestion is as follows: Drone pilots rely on their drones for DPS, (Curse, Dommy, Myrm, Vexor...) and without their drones, their DPS is minimal because they receive bonuses to drone damage and not to their own weapons. If drones are drones, and players are players, players flying these ships will never get the final blow because their Ogre II's could be ripping into a ship and helping get max damage but will never get the final blow on the killmail. SO, why not calculate the drone damage done and add it to the "controller's" total damage. This way, the true damage of these drone ships is calculated. The reason I say "controller" is because a carrier pilot doesn't get damage assigned unless "he" is controlling the fighters. So, if a carrier delegates fighters, the damage that the fighters do would be added to the DPS of the person that they were delegated to. Without this, the true damage done by the pilot and all his weapons will not be counted. This goes for fighters as well because it is the delegated pilot who is controlling the drones to victory of damage. Or, exclude fighter damage unless the carrier is controlling the fighters. So that damage does not go crazy.. However, drones from ships like the myrm, vexor, and the like need to have their drone damage added to their damage or these pilots will never get kill mails as the ships themselves don't put out the damage of say, a drake or a raven. Please consider this. I agree on this. Seems like an important aspect, on such a big update to an integral part of the game (brag rights ) On another note I'm not sure how i feel about the show all modules feature. No need for fitting forums anymore, just go to nearest pvp alliance killboard and get your fit....hmmmm Could also result in a lot of standardized/optimized fits. Well, no point in hiding it anymore. Actually it would probably result in more frequent refitting, when the corp your at war with can see your favorite fit (provided they get you, of course), Eve Market Scanner
Khan Soriano Beyond Divinity Inc Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2007.10.11 23:07:00 - [86] Originally by: Vim Is it just me that feel rigs shouldnt be on the km? They are after all changes to parts of your ship and not a module per se, if you want to know the rigs, bring a analyzer and the skills to do a technical report on the wreck =) Yes, I do feel rig combinations is one of the last pieces of information you can have to yourself out there, secret of the trade so to say =) It's just you. ----- Arbitrator - Life & Death

CCP Garthagk	Posted - 2007.10.11 23:34:00 - [87] Originally by: Saba Quiestador Can you please figure out some way to include dictor pilots on killmails? ...snip... This might be doable - I really like the idea. I will investigate this tomorrow. I think it is possible, but it will bear a little investigating. Same thing to the drone boat pilots - I will look into how drone damage is handled. To be honest, I'm not sure how drones are handled presently, I don't know what happens if they get the final blow. Though, I've been doing most of my killing with an Ishtar in testing and I've never seen anything other than me getting final blow. Maybe my Heavy Neutrons are just that good. -------------- Garthagk - EVE Software Group - EVE API Guy To err is human to really ***** up takes admins. -Hellmar

Helison Gallente Times of Ancar Pure.	Posted - 2007.10.11 23:48:00 - [88] Originally by: CCP Garthagk Same thing to the drone boat pilots - I will look into how drone damage is handled. To be honest, I'm not sure how drones are handled presently, I don't know what happens if they get the final blow. Though, I've been doing most of my killing with an Ishtar in testing and I've never seen anything other than me getting final blow. Maybe my Heavy Neutrons are just that good. In the current version, drones can get final blows: "Name: xxx (laid the final blow) Security: 0.0 Alliance: xxx Corp: xxx Ship: Ishtar Weapon: Ogre II"
Kamen SRBI Circle 0f Two	Posted - 2007.10.12 02:17:00 - [89] I hope you will also be addressing the issue of people missing on killmails -- not due to truncation but most likely due to shooting at drones before the kill, or because they dropped the dictor bubble. I lost already 4 killmails due to this and I submitted the bug a while back, but the QA just "shoo"-ed me off with "we can't reproduce". Also, the kill weapons is missing on most killmails with "unknown" stated. The podmails are HIGHLY desirable due to diplomatic accountability -- being able to confirm claims for pod losses in FF/standing incidents and "I lost a full set of +5 implants" types of claims. ------------------------------------------------ (Recruiting ad) SRBI regrutuju! Dodjite na nas javni SRBI kanal.
Sirius Problem Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.12 03:45:00 - [90] Please include in the KM a unique, verifiable, ID code, like a GUID that cannot be faked, for use by out-of-game killboards and websites to download the killmail via the API. Pilots then only need submit this KM ID to their corp KB for processing, Or use this ID on 3rd party websites, tools, etc to download their mails without having to provide character API keys. ---- Some people say I have a bad attitude. Those people are stupid.
Alexander Knott Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.12 06:40:00 - [91] Originally by: CCP Garthagk Originally by: Saba Quiestador Can you please figure out some way to include dictor pilots on killmails? ...snip... This might be doable - I really like the idea. I will investigate this tomorrow. I think it is possible, but it will bear a little investigating. Same thing to the drone boat pilots - I will look into how drone damage is handled. To be honest, I'm not sure how drones are handled presently, I don't know what happens if they get the final blow. Though, I've been doing most of my killing with an Ishtar in testing and I've never seen anything other than me getting final blow. Maybe my Heavy Neutrons are just that good. How about tackling statistics? First point, longest point, last point, etc. ----- "I like to loot, especially going to the can of the battleship, sometimes there is a surprise inside, sometimes there is only carp..."
Frug Zenithal Harvest BROTHER'S WORD	Posted - 2007.10.12 09:04:00 - [92] Speedy G strikes again. GJ, G. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Sky Marshal Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.10.12 10:26:00 - [93] Originally by: Helison 2) Please include implants. If Hammerhead insists on his position, please make him to write an explanation of his refusal. I would do the reverse situation : Can you explain why implants must be added ? Despite the "LOL he had some +4/+5 Implants LOL he's s**" with all problems that can appear (joking evemail etc...), so a bad idea for a game, I don't see why add implants can be interresting. Rigs/Modules display is also a problem. Permit to anyone to access easily of the complete** fitting setup of someone with no need of reflect can be considered as a nerf, because the actual situation need some efforts to find what I use (Killboard data compilation), so this bring a small privacy about my setups.
Dave White Beagle Corp	Posted - 2007.10.12 10:38:00 - [94] Perhaps I missed this or I'm just stupid but errh.. The new killmail system, everyone receives the log entry if they were involved on it, or just the person who did most damage? Originally by: GM Tacgnol Oveur descended from the heavens (also known as the second floor) and beat us all with his nerfbat.
babel2501	Posted - 2007.10.12 12:10:00 - [95] very pretty
Tiny Carlos Destructive Influence	Posted - 2007.10.12 12:11:00 - [96] Quote: How about tackling statistics? First point, longest point, last point, etc. This is one I'd like to see, or at least some stats other than damage. Maybe having the time spent engaged on the target, or time each pilot started on the target. So thoses heroic holds while the DPS arrives can be noted Another thing I'd like to see is the abilty to add people to the kill like FCs, scouts, co-ops, etc. An option to have the whole gang on the kill would be one way to do this that would work well for roaming gangs. "Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others." - Groucho Marx
Eraggan Sadarr Phoenix Tribe	Posted - 2007.10.12 12:50:00 - [97] Originally by: Dave White Perhaps I missed this or I'm just stupid but errh.. The new killmail system, everyone receives the log entry if they were involved on it, or just the person who did most damage? I hope that everyone on the KM gets it, as this is the singlemost annoying thing with the current killmail system. So please let everyone involved have an entry in their "killmail history". BTW, what about lossmails who and where will they be "sent to"? Eve Market Scanner
Thraxon Black-Sun-Inventions	Posted - 2007.10.12 14:35:00 - [98] Originally by: Eraggan Sadarr I hope that everyone on the KM gets it, as this is the singlemost annoying thing with the current killmail system. So please let everyone involved have an entry in their "killmail history". Indeed this should most definately get into the new system!
Shacksman Gallente Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.10.12 14:49:00 - [99] i would love to see lost implants as well from pod kills
Dane el'Galen	Posted - 2007.10.12 15:12:00 - [100] These changes are awesome, I can't wait for the November release. Would definitely want to see drone damage added though ... and perhaps something for the guys in gang working e-war or tackling otherwise it's just the gankers who will get to strut their stuff and the guys working those other roles won't ever get a look in. Anyway, as someone that has heavily modified their own killboard (too far now to go back to original eve-dev code) is there any chance of getting access to the information the guys at eve-dev or griefwatch get? Thanks, ~Dane

CCP Garthagk	Posted - 2007.10.12 15:49:00 - [101] Originally by: Dane el'Galen These changes are awesome, I can't wait for the November release. Would definitely want to see drone damage added though ... and perhaps something for the guys in gang working e-war or tackling otherwise it's just the gankers who will get to strut their stuff and the guys working those other roles won't ever get a look in. Anyway, as someone that has heavily modified their own killboard (too far now to go back to original eve-dev code) is there any chance of getting access to the information the guys at eve-dev or griefwatch get? Turns out drone damage is already included as part of its owner. No worries there, your drones will be plinking along and adding up correctly. Also, the information is available on the EVE-Development Network wiki, it's under "killboard resources" I believe. -------------- Garthagk - EVE Software Group - EVE API Guy To err is human to really ***** up takes admins. -Hellmar

Donathan Slade Kay Korporation Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.10.12 16:29:00 - [102] Originally by: CCP Garthagk Turns out drone damage is already included as part of its owner. No worries there, your drones will be plinking along and adding up correctly. Also, the information is available on the EVE-Development Network wiki, it's under "killboard resources" I believe. Thanks for investigating this! :) Now to check tower guns that are being controlled by a player! :)
Bu Jinkan Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.12 16:39:00 - [103] Can you please publish the new parser information before the launch, instead of only touching base with a couple major public killboards? Many alliances have in-house killboards.
Solar Shard	Posted - 2007.10.12 16:43:00 - [104] Originally by: Sky Marshal Originally by: Helison 2) Please include implants. If Hammerhead insists on his position, please make him to write an explanation of his refusal. I would do the reverse situation : Can you explain why implants must be added ? Despite the "LOL he had some +4/+5 Implants LOL he's s**" with all problems that can appear (joking evemail etc...), so a bad idea for a game, I don't see why add implants can be interresting. Rigs/Modules display is also a problem. Permit to anyone to access easily of the complete** fitting setup of someone with no need of reflect can be considered as a nerf, because the actual situation need some efforts to find what I use (Killboard data compilation), so this bring a small privacy about my setups. IMHO, the only valid reason to have all the data (rigs, implants, modules destroyed/dropped) in the killmail is so that you can see what kind of fiscal damage you are doing to a hostile force, so that you can see how effective you are against them, compared to how effective they are against you. Modules dropped is awesome, because it allows you to split the loot more efficiently, and with less distrust involved than there is currently.
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2007.10.12 16:52:00 - [105] Edited by: Haniblecter Teg on 12/10/2007 16:53:15 I say NO to podmails showing implants. It'd only increase the rate of poddings, and who the hell wants to risk their Snakes any more than they have to? Also, implants are a personal expense, and not something that should be included in total ISK lost in wars against corps and such. ----------------- Friends Forever Kill. BoB. Dead.
Donathan Slade Kay Korporation Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.10.12 17:09:00 - [106] Originally by: Haniblecter Teg Edited by: Haniblecter Teg on 12/10/2007 16:53:15 I say NO to podmails showing implants. It'd only increase the rate of poddings, and who the hell wants to risk their Snakes any more than they have to? Also, implants are a personal expense, and not something that should be included in total ISK lost in wars against corps and such. 1) LOL, Um... ships are ALSO a "personal" loss. You loose implants just like you loose ships. PEople will still podkill even if you don't have implants, the point is to make you pay more money to buy a new clone. 2) I would like to know if somebody is using a Halo/Slave. Because it also allows us to future judge our opponents and see the "True" fiscal damage when a pod is popped. 2a) Price of their current clone not needed or wanted as how many SP and the price of the clone is truly personal and is NOT shared.
Harisdrop Gallente Omega Enterprises Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.10.12 17:49:00 - [107] As I am a veteran. I would like to have kills and losses in my show info. Soo when the poor sap opens up my show info he sees 1000kill point and 50 kill point loses or somthing like that. I think it would be cool to see how many times someone dies in a hauler or a zealot thru thier show info. Killboards would go away.

CCP Garthagk	Posted - 2007.10.12 18:29:00 - [108] Originally by: Bu Jinkan Can you please publish the new parser information before the launch, instead of only touching base with a couple major public killboards? Many alliances have in-house killboards. I published the information above your post, the link to the EVE-Development Network wiki. My post has big shiny gold bars which just seem to shout "hey read me". But then, that might just be me. -------------- Garthagk - EVE Software Group - EVE API Guy To err is human to really ***** up takes admins. -Hellmar

Jason Edwards	Posted - 2007.10.12 19:38:00 - [109] How about a nice official killboard on this website? I love the changes though in general otherwise.
Frug Zenithal Harvest BROTHER'S WORD	Posted - 2007.10.12 20:18:00 - [110] Originally by: CCP Garthagk My post has big shiny gold bars Stop showing off. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Dave White Beagle Corp	Posted - 2007.10.12 21:22:00 - [111] Garthagk, will all persons involved on the kill receive a log entry, or just the highest damage-dealing person? Originally by: GM Tacgnol Oveur descended from the heavens (also known as the second floor) and beat us all with his nerfbat.
Jezala Repo Industries	Posted - 2007.10.12 21:52:00 - [112] Something that has been bothering me in the back of my head, are the kill reports still going to be called "kill mails"? Seriously, "kill mail" is so deeply embedded in our EVE vocabulary that to call it a "kill log" or "kill record" would be blasphemy.
Dave White Beagle Corp	Posted - 2007.10.12 23:57:00 - [113] Originally by: Jezala Something that has been bothering me in the back of my head, are the kill reports still going to be called "kill mails"? Seriously, "kill mail" is so deeply embedded in our EVE vocabulary that to call it a "kill log" or "kill record" would be blasphemy. A wreck is often still called a can, so I think it'll still be called a killmail Originally by: GM Tacgnol Oveur descended from the heavens (also known as the second floor) and beat us all with his nerfbat.
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2007.10.13 07:56:00 - [114] I just came It's great being Amarr isn't it.
darkmancer	Posted - 2007.10.13 09:52:00 - [115] Would it be possible to make a "concorde" sanctioned killboard? Ideally it would be both in & out of game accessable, voluntry (via options screen), and would update every downtime (stop the server falling during fleet fights). It'll be interesting to see how much fighting's going on, how war are going, were the fighting is - etc. Now add it to the starmap and it'd be a interesting advertising tool. Please add implants to KM's, you pop & pod a Nighthawk, and a Harpy. Which was the better kill? The harpy pilot had +5's now which is the better kill? :) PS Can you add a hit quality guide too the eve dev wiki? It'd like to know how to increase the pain my opponent feels as serveral rounds of my antimatter go though his ship :) --------------------------------- There's a simple solution to every problem. It is always invariably wrong
Skyr ECP Rogues The Reckoning.	Posted - 2007.10.13 19:24:00 - [116] Not sure if this was talked about yet, but can we also have more information when pod is killed. Eg. implants lost and skill levels lost if dude didn't have a clone covering all his SPs. Thank you.
Riddick Valer	Posted - 2007.10.13 19:32:00 - [117] I'd like to see everyone included in the kill get the mail. Also, I know this is going to get me flamed, but kill mails and loss mails should include different information. Killmails: List Modules Dropped Basic list of modules destroyed Not list implants Lossmails: List modules Dropped+Destroyed List Implants. The kill mail information includes what could logically be seen after a kill. The modules that were left behind are easily recorded. The exact modules that were destroyed is harder. How can someone easily tell the wreckage of a SAR I and SAR II apart? Only list the meta level 0 item of any items destroyed. Implants would probably be destroyed in a pod kill. The sheer destructive power of most ship weapons applied to something as fragile as a pod? Delicate implants would likely be destroyed. Loss mails should include exact fitting information and implants. This is information a corp/alliance would have access to through medical records/etc... Otherwise, corps might start making their killboards private to avoid sharing more information than they really want to share.
Jehovah Cooper Convergent Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.10.13 20:42:00 - [118] Please, please, please add this to all involved parties not just those who get the final blow. Mixed alliance fleets are the rule these days and there are always many pilots who want the KM. I was really looking forward to this patch just so that people could stop talking about and asking for KM all the time.
Yunii Allied Combat Team Endless Horizon	Posted - 2007.10.13 21:47:00 - [119] Good on ya's. ------------------------------------------- Originally by: CCP Arkanon I think this thread also illustrates perfectly that we neither censor nor do we try to silence our customers.
Chruker	Posted - 2007.10.14 00:04:00 - [120] Originally by: S. Arcasm I would like to see miners getting a kill when they mine out an asteroid. Or perhaps when they clear out a belt. With stats like time taken, cycles done, ore mined, rats killed while mining etc. Awesome idea! ----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi - Speedup IGB table rendering
Fantome Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.10.14 08:29:00 - [121] Tower's gunners should appear too on KM. Will it be implemented too ? Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected]) Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum.
Jaabaa Minmatar Dental Drilling Corporation	Posted - 2007.10.14 10:24:00 - [122] Originally by: CCP Garthagk 2) Will there be implants in podmails? Design has shot this one down. If you would really like to see this, you'll have to convince Hammerhead of how awesome it'd be to have full details of that bit of biomass you're holding in your hangar. I mean, you've got his corpse, should be able to pull open the head and see what's inside. Right? Maybe that's just me. A pod kill should list the implants destroyed, exactly the same way that modules on a ship are listed. What also would be nice is the clone level destroyed, as you said, you have the corpse, you can easily see what model of clone it was. I guess that falls under the insurance system though, kind of like a asking to know the level of ship insurance on a kill. Would still be nice though. -- EVE Tools for cell phones and Windows/linux/Mac systems http://evemsp.sourceforge.net/
Elaine Wiggan	Posted - 2007.10.14 20:32:00 - [123] Edited by: Elaine Wiggan on 14/10/2007 20:32:22 I am concerned with the load this will place on the db .. how is that been addressed ?
Stork DK Synthetic Frontiers	Posted - 2007.10.15 12:23:00 - [124] Sound good :) Question for you though. Scenario: Me and my gangmate, engages 3 other pilots, we manage to kill one of their ships but the other two escapes. Everybody where shooting at the opposite gang. Here's the question: Can we get all ships involved in the fight included, so we can see everybody who was fighting in the killmail. So that we get something like this: Victim: Hostile gang pilot 1 Ship, etc. etc. Involved Parties: My gang pilot 1 My gang pilot 2 Aiding Parties: Hostile gang pilot 2 Hostile gang pilot 3 (As in they where engaging the attackers in the same timespace as the kill occured.) -------------- Originally by: omiNATION Originally by: Triumdicta we're getting a new kind of ore? CAREBEAR ALERT
PSEWAR Amarr Stardust Heavy Industries	Posted - 2007.10.15 14:19:00 - [125] Hello Garthagk, first I have to say this is really good news what you are planning to change with the new killmail system. But I'd like to propose some changes while you are at it. Currently if you remote repair someone you might also show up in the participation list off the kill. My first thought was that you might completely strip them off the kill mails, but as you are adding the damage received and damage done information to the kill mails why not add a new column to the kill mails where the support is written with damage repaired or something alike. You could even go further then and add a third column where ewar ship are listed. So the xml for a kill could look like: - KillMail -- Kill Information (Solarsystem etc) -- Victim Information (Player information / Damage recieved) -- Killer Information (Player information / Damage done) -- Support Information (Player information / Damage repaired) -- EWar Information (Player information / Ewar used) -- Fitting Information (what was fitted/lost/looted) I think this would be a great enhancement to the actual value of a kill if you want to get some statistical information about it. I would also like to propose that pod mails should include implants and that at least everyone in the Killer Information row will get an entry in killmail table. With best regards, PSEWAR
Royaldo Gallente KVA Noble Inc. Institute of Cooperative Education	Posted - 2007.10.15 15:12:00 - [126] love it.
Aluthin Caldari New Light Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.15 16:30:00 - [127] looks and sounds great on a related note can u put something for pos's like the ability to designate who gets the kill-mail details or pos under attack details so that not all directors get spammed and/or the ability to desigante pos operators to get the info.... Also can u fix it so you don't get a mail saying pos under attack when actually the pos structure is being remote repaired.....

CCP Garthagk	Posted - 2007.10.15 16:40:00 - [128] In answer to some previous questions: The only reason we don't show BPC vs BPO in a mail is technical. It's currently not implemented that way. However, as we've right at the feature complete deadline, I'm loathe to go in and add this in after the fact. It can be looked into for post-expansion, but this will probably not make it in for the expansion itself. Second question: changing the mechanics of the self-destruct sequence is out of scope for the current revision of this project. There's been some discussion about it, but we don't want to change how it works right now. Enough is being changed, we'll see how it goes, then see if this needs to be revisited. -------------- Garthagk - EVE Software Group - EVE API Guy To err is human to really ***** up takes admins. -Hellmar

ZaKma Seraphin Technologies Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.16 09:42:00 - [129] Originally by: CCP Garthagk 3) Who can see my kills/losses? Don't worry, we're not changing the rules here. The only people who can see kills (right now) are the person who get assigned the final blow and the victim. This applies to the API as well. We have the technical capability to serve mails for your corp/alliance/etc no problem, but we haven't made a decision on if/how we're going to use this functionality in the game or API. This is stupid. EVERY person that has participated in a kill, should see it in their log. Why only the person with the final blow? This makes no sense.
Eraggan Sadarr Phoenix Tribe	Posted - 2007.10.16 12:07:00 - [130] Originally by: ZaKma Originally by: CCP Garthagk 3) Who can see my kills/losses? Don't worry, we're not changing the rules here. The only people who can see kills (right now) are the person who get assigned the final blow and the victim. This applies to the API as well. We have the technical capability to serve mails for your corp/alliance/etc no problem, but we haven't made a decision on if/how we're going to use this functionality in the game or API. This is stupid. EVERY person that has participated in a kill, should see it in their log. Why only the person with the final blow? This makes no sense. No that has never made any sense! Please let all involved in the kill be able to see it. Eve Market Scanner
Furion118	Posted - 2007.10.16 14:09:00 - [131] So who gets the killmail now? The one who did the last damage or the one who did the most damage?
Quebnaric Deile Fabulous Soulcatchers Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium	Posted - 2007.10.16 14:27:00 - [132] Originally by: Quutar will there be a way for corps to access the loss mails of all of their members via API... Yes please! hehe __ Fabulous Soulcatchers are no longer recruiting.
Malashek Vatrii Kaminjosvig	Posted - 2007.10.16 17:23:00 - [133] So, with the current killmails, they're a bit, screwy right? Example: I find someone at a gate, I start shooting at them, they don't aggress and jump onto other side (barely alive). Then they appear on the otherside and is taken down by another member of my corp/gang. They get the killmail, and I'm not on it, even though I've done the most damage to him... Will this be fixed with the new Killmail system? - Mal * * * *

CCP Garthagk	Posted - 2007.10.16 20:39:00 - [134] Originally by: Malashek Vatrii So, with the current killmails, they're a bit, screwy right? Example: I find someone at a gate, I start shooting at them, they don't aggress and jump onto other side (barely alive). Then they appear on the otherside and is taken down by another member of my corp/gang. They get the killmail, and I'm not on it, even though I've done the most damage to him... Will this be fixed with the new Killmail system? No, this isn't changing. The reason it happens this way is because aggression (and thus, storage of how much damage and what everybody's done) is stored on a solar system basis. So, the second that guy jumps out, we have to transfer his state to another solar system. This could be on the same server, but it more than likely is not. Even if it is on the same machine, it's not in the same object/space in memory. We already send enough data around when we're doing session transfers, adding in an additional potentially large amount of data is not something that would be very good for reducing lag. It sucks when this happens, of course, but for now it's going to remain as a limitation of the kill system. -------------- Garthagk - EVE Software Group - EVE API Guy To err is human to really ***** up takes admins. -Hellmar


CCP Garthagk	Posted - 2007.10.16 20:41:00 - [135] Originally by: Furion118 So who gets the killmail now? The one who did the last damage or the one who did the most damage? Final blow and victim will get the mails in their combat logs. The only time doing the most damage comes into play is when an NPC gets the final blow. Then we promote the player with most damage to have the final blow instead of the NPC. -------------- Garthagk - EVE Software Group - EVE API Guy To err is human to really ***** up takes admins. -Hellmar


CCP Garthagk	Posted - 2007.10.16 20:45:00 - [136] As an update to the post I just posted: We would love to be able to give everybody a copy of the mail in their combat log. That is not going to happen right now, however, because the only ways to do it require storing a lot of extra data in the database that we don't want to do right now. Part of the goal of the Killmail Mk 1.5 project is to not create any additional load on the system and if at all possible to reduce load. We have managed to reduce the database traffic that is generated on a kill down to a single database insert (very good!), but we had to denormalize it. That means we don't have the ability to look up kills based on participants except for the final blow and victim. However, the way the system has been designed does not rule this out for the future. We can easily parse the data and we could, if we decide we have the resources to do it, retroactively 'fix' this for all of the mails that go into the new system. So - not happening yet, but there is hope for the future. It comes down to finding a way of doing it that won't hurt our beloved database. -------------- Garthagk - EVE Software Group - EVE API Guy To err is human to really ***** up takes admins. -Hellmar

Natalie Jax	Posted - 2007.10.16 23:00:00 - [137] I just wanted to chime in with a hearty "thank you". Not as much for the features and changes themselves but yet another example of CCP's dedication to improving the game. I've perused many a killboard and I can see how even a minor change would throw a wrench in the works. I work with far too many people who see such changes as taboo for that reason.
Tkar vonBiggendorf Gallente Snake Eyes Inc The Covenant Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.18 01:17:00 - [138] Originally by: Jaabaa What also would be nice is the clone level destroyed, as you said, you have the corpse, you can easily see what model of clone it was. I guess that falls under the insurance system though, kind of like a asking to know the level of ship insurance on a kill. Would still be nice though. No, this wouldn't even be useful. The body you have is the clone this guy jumped into last time he was podkilled. Or maybe it's his original body if this was his first podkilling. Maybe it was a basic clone and he lost skillpoints 2 weeks ago. Maybe he's got more now than this clone held, but he bought a newer clone (if he was smart), and he's occupying that new clone now. The corpse you have in hand has no bearing on the clone that the recently departed is now occupying. Would be nice though if the corpse in hand revealed the (now broken) implants in it's head. It shouldn't be part of the killmail. It should be part of the corpse, like salvage from a wreck.
Fantome Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.10.18 09:28:00 - [139] Originally by: Fantome Tower's gunners should appear too on KM. Will it be implemented too ? Any update about it ? Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected]) Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum.
Eraggan Sadarr Phoenix Tribe	Posted - 2007.10.18 12:01:00 - [140] Originally by: CCP Garthagk As an update to the post I just posted: We would love to be able to give everybody a copy of the mail in their combat log. That is not going to happen right now... Really sad to hear that. I understand the wish to increase performance and the resulting denormalizing workaround. But imo this is the weakest part of the killmail system. I'd rather have a killmail with less info, but guaranteed to get one if i was involved in the kill. Eve Market Scanner
Inigo Firebird FireTech Pure.	Posted - 2007.10.18 13:31:00 - [141] Originally by: CCP Garthagk As an update to the post I just posted: Part of the goal of the Killmail Mk 1.5 project is to not create any additional load on the system and if at all possible to reduce load. We have managed to reduce the database traffic that is generated on a kill down to a single database insert (very good!), but we had to denormalize it. That means we don't have the ability to look up kills based on participants except for the final blow and victim. However, the way the system has been designed does not rule this out for the future. We can easily parse the data and we could, if we decide we have the resources to do it, retroactively 'fix' this for all of the mails that go into the new system. So - not happening yet, but there is hope for the future. It comes down to finding a way of doing it that won't hurt our beloved database. Have to say that does disappoint me some what but all in all thumbs up. In space licking your frozen corpse !
ArmyOfMe hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.10.19 07:12:00 - [142] Originally by: CCP Garthagk As an update to the post I just posted: We would love to be able to give everybody a copy of the mail in their combat log. That is not going to happen right now, however, because the only ways to do it require storing a lot of extra data in the database that we don't want to do right now. You really took away the only reason to have the new system imo
Markius Proxim Timetravel Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.22 05:12:00 - [143] sry i didn't read it all.... but... 1. Are reimbursements going to cover dropped and popped items now? 2. Will there be a "damage repaired" by for logistics? Give them credit, likely increasing their popularity an making engagements even more dynamic? "i repaired enough damage to cover 2 BS worth of damage before you died dude!" thanks, sorry for being a bad forum ***** and not reading 5 pages of comments
Quebnaric Deile Fabulous Soulcatchers Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium	Posted - 2007.10.22 17:39:00 - [144] Originally by: CCP Garthagk That means we don't have the ability to look up kills based on participants except for the final blow and victim. So does this lookup include corp information? Just wondering if the existing design would be able to easily support he ability for CEO/Directors to lookup all kills/losses that have be delivered to a members of their corp. Cause this would be tasty! __ Fabulous Soulcatchers are no longer recruiting.
Tangki	Posted - 2007.10.23 12:14:00 - [145] Just had to say... WOW Something that will actually be a great for the servers and the user base.... AWSOME... Can you go find Zul and tell him to help you and not screw with things that are not broken. Cheers
Tolarus Aonyma United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.25 16:05:00 - [146] LOL yes, this sounds like it will greatly improve the issues with killmail. I was curious if there had been any discussion of making a characters kills/losses viewable to other pilots through their character sheet. Say theres a pilot in local and someone wants to see how well they've been doing in PvP. Not any great detail like ship type, parties involved and location, something simple like Kills: 30 Losses: 20 or something to that effect.
Del orian Amarr LOCKDOWN. HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2007.11.03 16:57:00 - [147] Edited by: Del orian on 03/11/2007 16:58:06 I would like to see some improfments for the supporter with the new Killmail system. For example: Player A shoots down Player B - so Player A gets all the glory and killmail. But what is with Player C who remote repped Player A during the fight? I would like to see supporting players on the new killmails like: Player A does x Damage to Player B Player C repaired y Shield from Player A Dont know how hard it would be to implement the negative damage Importing thing is getting supporting players on the killmails will encourage players to fly with logistics and other supporters. // oh and first post so be gentle
Viceroy Bolloxim Caldari Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.11.06 22:57:00 - [148] bit disappointed with lack of implants on podmails, minor, although would prefer a random 'intact' module drop from those pods, if someone has 1.5 bil of implants .. seems only fair :) Although you cannot keep track of damage cross jumping, can you actually use the information of the fleet setup, and 'tag' everyone in the killers fleet/squad etc. to show on the killmail. For instance we have scouts both forward and rear, sometimes they just act as a spotter, they wont get on KM, but they are a hugely important factor, such as the covops pilots that have no weapons. maybe have an option to 'direct killmails to fleet commander'? good reason to have fleet skill :) -bollo Digital - Expressed in numerical form, especially for use by a computer. Fury - the property of being wild or turbulent; "the storm's violence"
Kurann Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.07 20:55:00 - [149] Originally by: CCP Garthagk The only reason we don't show BPC vs BPO in a mail is technical. It's currently not implemented that way. However, as we've right at the feature complete deadline, I'm loathe to go in and add this in after the fact. It can be looked into for post-expansion, but this will probably not make it in for the expansion itself. thank you for looking at this, but please do consider it post-expansion as it makes a huge difference in tracking isk destroyed
VauXurne	Posted - 2007.11.21 18:48:00 - [150] When can we expect this to be available in the API?
Paulus Aurelius	Posted - 2007.11.24 10:18:00 - [151] All changes seem really great, thanks devs! Only thing i would really like to add is a 'implants destroyed' section when you pos someone. It gives so much satisfaction when you killed someone with snakes or something and it shouldn't be too difficult (just guessing though, i'm not a dev). The comment in this thread that 1 implant should drop is ridicilous, if you can't take implants out while you're alive, you certainly can't take an intact implant when the victim is podded.
DrAtomic Atomic Heroes Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.29 16:27:00 - [152] Edited by: DrAtomic on 29/11/2007 16:29:44 Looks like it's not in the Trinity "expansion", any chance this is due to change of minds of the design peepz giving us full pod info (implants) and sending all involved parties the mails? Pretty pretty please? There really isnt an excuse not to show lost implants, you are allready showing destroyed modules and cargo. The cause of not showing implants in lossmails is more an oversight then it should be held back as a design decission. Show nothing or all imo. Or even maybe an offical Eve killboard to work around database requirements for parsing all involved parties, even carebear pve WoW with some pvp elements has official stats pages. Corp API? ----------------------------------------------- Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are screwed. My Top 10 List
Drachlen	Posted - 2007.11.30 11:27:00 - [153] Has there been any information given out regarding the usage of the API regarding this? Hopefully there will be a limited access key that players can provide to only allow view of their kill data through the API. If you could provide more information regarding this aspect of the changes, I would appreciate it greatly. I'm currently working on something that will potentially rely on the ability to authenticate this data. And as someone had suggested earlier--if the API will not work to this extent, is there any chance of seeing some sort of hash or related key that can verify the information? Thanks much.

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