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Shuttles - Too Fast?

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Sahra Elcon	Posted - 2007.10.13 00:16:00 - [1] Edited by: Sahra Elcon on 13/10/2007 00:32:48 NOTE: For the sake of argument I'm not considering microwarp drives or afterburners. Ok, so we all know what shuttles areàcheap, easy-to-construct transportation throughout empire space, or a quick way to move a couple of modules back and forth. Unfortunately IÆve noticed a disturbing trend of shuttles being used not just in high-security space, but also low-security space and even 0.0 space. These ships are not being used as transports, but as an incredibly effective and cheap means to avoid gatecamps and penetrate alliance space. This is an exploit of the shuttle and needs to be stopped immediately. LetÆs go over the stats for the shuttle, shall we? Specifically: -Speed (500 m/s) -Agility (1) -Signature Radius (25) -Cost (9000 ISK) The standard shuttle has a speed of 500 m/s plus any modifiers from the pilotÆs navigation, giving it a top speed of 625 m/s with Navigation 5. This doesnÆt seem that fast, but letÆs take a look at frigates (the fastest T1 ships in EVE): Rifter: Speed: 320 * 1.25 * 1.6 for 3 speed increasers = 600 meters per second Agility: 3.1 Signature Radius: 35 Cost: 300K isk Ok so with a few fitting the Rifter can get up to 600 meters per second, which is almost as fast as the shuttle. But itÆs agility suffers greatly compared to the shuttle û itÆs three times as poor actually. In addition, the signature radius of the Rifter is about a third larger as well. But check out the cost û the Rifter costs over 30 times as much as the shuttle. Is this huge increase in price worth the couple high slots that the Rifter gains as a result? Well, maybe we should compare the stats of T2 ships, surely interceptors would be better, correct? Yes, letÆs do that! HereÆs the Ares, an awesome gallente interceptor and the fastest ship IÆve ever flown: Ares: Speed: 450 * 1.8 * 1.25 = 922.5 Agility: 3.1 Signature Radius: 35 (down to 27) Cost: 5 million ISK Whoah! ThatÆs a big increase in speed, wouldnÆt you say? The 922 meters per second is definitely a lot faster than your average shuttle, but once again, you have to look at the cost here û the interceptor costs over 1200 times as much! In addition, it takes a lot of ISK in skillbooks and time to use interceptors, where any new player can use a shuttle immediately. Well maybe we should look at this in terms of speed vs. cost! Ares: 5000000/922 = 5420 ISK per meter/second Rifter: 300000/600 = 500 ISK per meter/second Shuttle: 9000/625 = 14.4 ISK per meter/second No matter how it looks, the shuttle is by far the most efficient when it comes to cost vs. speed. No amount of high-slots or modules can make up for this, and itÆs over 100 times as cheap as itÆs closest rival in speed. DoesnÆt anyone see a problem with this The ShuttleÆs impact in Alliance Warfare ItÆs obvious that shuttles are the premier source of intelligence info in 0.0 space as well. Given itÆs cheapness, low skill requirements, and insane speed itÆs capable of outrunning almost any other ship and it can be used by disposable alts in case a blunder on the pilotÆs part gets it killed. This has led to difficulties in mounting effective defenses since people know whatÆs going to attack through intelligence gathering. I'm not done yet!
Galactic reporter Galactic reporter independant news corp	Posted - 2007.10.13 00:16:00 - [2] Eve is a game.
Sahra Elcon	Posted - 2007.10.13 00:17:00 - [3] How to Balance Shuttles One possible way of balancing shuttles would be to reduce their maximum speed. Changing the base speed of a shuttle from 500 m/s to something like 50 m/s (and maybe increasing their cargo a bit) would prevent them from outrunning anything other than interceptors, and it would also give them more utility as cargo-carrying ships in empireàthey might even become more popular except among the industrial crowd! Another way would be to increase their cost significantly. If their costs were more in line with interceptors they might become less popular than they currently are and people would have to risk real ships in combat. I think a 5000% increase in cost (to about 45 million ISK) would be an honest representation of their value as intelligence gathering tool. This would also be good for producers because their 10% profit is now 4.5 million ISK instead of 900 ISK! CCP can adjust the market levels to compensate if they have to. A third technique would be to make Shuttles T2 ships. This would be more in line with their speed and maneuverability, and would increase the cost to more reasonable levels as well. At the same time, you could significantly reduce the skill requirements for industrials so pretty much everybody will be able to use them. What it Would Do for 0.0? The reduction of shuttle use in 0.0 would make things more interesting and also help break up blob warfare since less intelligence will give people less time to form defensive forces and make them spread out a bit. It will also generally make things more interesting because spies will be used more in order to gain intelligence - their I-Win button of reconnaissance wouldnÆt be available anymore. I donÆt post in the forum that often, so IÆm interested in seeing how the community will react to these ideas. I appreciate your input. P.S. û Another question I wanted to ask while I was at it. I went to a Mexican restaurant named Guapos last night and they had this really cool desert. I think they took bananas and fried it with sugar and cinnamon, then they put all of it on top of the ice cream. I thought it was awesome and wanted to look up a recipe myself.
Jita Alt	Posted - 2007.10.13 00:20:00 - [4] Been killed by a shuttle then? Wait..... O.o __________________________________ Calling you an idiot on a forum nearby
Karanth Gallente Crazy 88's	Posted - 2007.10.13 00:20:00 - [5] Your whine is made of fail. Tarminic does it better. All that's left... There is only one sig hijack that matters, the orginal and only member of the hijack squad. me. -Eris. ps Black russians are better then beer. Well, there's not many of us left! -Rauth
Dave White Beagle Corp	Posted - 2007.10.13 00:23:00 - [6] Are you being serious? Originally by: GM Tacgnol Oveur descended from the heavens (also known as the second floor) and beat us all with his nerfbat.
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.10.13 00:23:00 - [7] Shuttles don't tank well. Also, they can't fit a MWD... --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Mel Ionix	Posted - 2007.10.13 00:25:00 - [8] Not funny.
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2007.10.13 00:26:00 - [9] This guy is obviously a throwaway alt, just check his post history. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in Forum Warfare
Sahra Elcon	Posted - 2007.10.13 00:30:00 - [10] Originally by: Hllaxiu Shuttles don't tank well. Also, they can't fit a MWD... Well, for the sake of argument here I'm not considering microwarp drives. This is the first I've heard of them.
Narodnaia	Posted - 2007.10.13 00:34:00 - [11] a vigil is faster than any rifter, and with decent skills and 3x overdrives, any shuttle :)
Maltitol Gallente Tides of Silence Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.13 00:34:00 - [12] Pure classic! NERF THE SHUTTLE!
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.10.13 00:34:00 - [13] Shuttles are fine. --- Join BH-DL
Kyoi Shuttles Dont Tank Well	Posted - 2007.10.13 00:36:00 - [14] Didn't you have anything better to do than write this forum essay ?
Sahra Elcon	Posted - 2007.10.13 00:38:00 - [15] Originally by: Kyoi Didn't you have anything better to do than write this forum essay ? I just thought that it was important, that's all. Also, any idea about the desert part? I still wanna know that at least.
Hana Lena Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.10.13 00:40:00 - [16] ROFLOL Shuttles dot exclaty tank well and there doing what they are supost to be doing transporting small ammounts of "stuff" be that a modual a (pod +5{agensent ogers}) or information (E.G. scouting in 0.0) there fine. ADHD + Dyslexia = BAD SPELLING F.N.A. F! T! W! Meow Mix! Bacon! DOOM!
Maltitol Gallente Tides of Silence Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.13 00:43:00 - [17] Originally by: Sahra Elcon Originally by: Kyoi Didn't you have anything better to do than write this forum essay ? I just thought that it was important, that's all. Also, any idea about the desert part? I still wanna know that at least. Bananas Foster?
Sahra Elcon	Posted - 2007.10.13 00:44:00 - [18] Originally by: Maltitol Originally by: Sahra Elcon Originally by: Kyoi Didn't you have anything better to do than write this forum essay ? I just thought that it was important, that's all. Also, any idea about the desert part? I still wanna know that at least. Bananas Foster? Thanks Maltitol! Geez, first helpful reply. You guys sure are a grouchy bunch.
L'Arbitrageur	Posted - 2007.10.13 00:45:00 - [19] you want shuttles to cost 45million isk??? and....you want to be taken seriously???
Arana Tellen Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.10.13 00:47:00 - [20] Originally by: Sahra Elcon Originally by: Maltitol Originally by: Sahra Elcon Originally by: Kyoi Didn't you have anything better to do than write this forum essay ? I just thought that it was important, that's all. Also, any idea about the desert part? I still wanna know that at least. Bananas Foster? Thanks Maltitol! Geez, first helpful reply. You guys sure are a grouchy bunch. If you are so new not to even know about shuttles, what's this about 0.0 warfare? --------------------------------- Core 2 Duo E4300 1.8ghz @ 3ghz, 2GB Gskill DDR2 5400 @ 800mhh 4-4-4-12, Abit fatality mATX F-I90HD @ 334mhz, 8800GTS 320mb 2x250GB 7200.10s Raid 0, Vista 64 Home.
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2007.10.13 00:49:00 - [21] Originally by: Sahra Elcon Thanks Maltitol! Geez, first helpful reply. You guys sure are a grouchy bunch. Cut the act...you're obviously an alt trying to take my...thing that I've been doing, and you're doing a bad job of it. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in Forum Warfare
Eval B'Stard Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.10.13 00:53:00 - [22] A shuttle nerf is already in the pipeline to remove the price cap on Tritanium. It'll either be shuttle only obtained by player manufacture or Shuttle price increase. A shuttle is by definition a fast way to get a pilot from one place to another nothing more nothing less. It's speed is it's only defence. Now enough with the NERF whines FFS !!!! ------------------------------------------- When we gonna see the 40km and 80km tractor beams ?
Sorja E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.10.13 00:53:00 - [23] I wholeheartedly agree and propose to nerf pods too! Thanks for the laugh though ____________________ A gentleman is someone who can play the bagpipe, but who does not.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2007.10.13 00:53:00 - [24] Originally by: Jita Alt Been killed by a shuttle then? Wait..... O.o Are you a jita alt? SKUNK Originally by: Jeximo I also like how your cat only managed to hit the enter button when he/she jumped on your keyboard.
Flinx Evenstar Minmatar Spartan Industries Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.10.13 00:54:00 - [25] Originally by: Sahra Elcon The ShuttleÆs impact in Alliance Warfare ItÆs obvious that shuttles are the premier source of intelligence info in 0.0 space as well. In low sec maybe sweetheart. Shuttles are well known to insta pop when they meet dictors Believe it or not, most 0.0 intel is gathered using something known as a covert Have no idea what your rant is meant to achieve tbh...are you actually trying to suggest that a shuttle is overpowered Nice troll I, erm, like kill things and stuff
Trask Kilraen The Older Gamers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.13 00:55:00 - [26] Sweet Jeebus! Is someone actually suggesting that CCP nerf SHUTTLES! ------------------------------------------
Maltitol Gallente Tides of Silence Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.13 00:55:00 - [27] you know.. ive been pretty drunk in my time.. and plan on doing some more in about 20 minutes... but wtf? you know nothing of shuttles, yet know about 0.0 warfafe and how to gather intel and the intricacies of stats of other ships (which you say you;ve piloted the ares)... and you want the shuttle to cost 45 million isk? are you out of your tree? you are either smoking some seriously good stuff, are drunk off your ass, or need to be podded over and over and over... i will gladly pay 45 mill isk for the ship once i can mount a citadel torp to it with 95/95/95/95 resists..... well.. im off to get wasted.. im jealous of how wasted you are
Monkayy	Posted - 2007.10.13 00:57:00 - [28] Originally by: Flinx Evenstar The ShuttleÆs impact in Alliance Warfare ItÆs obvious that shuttles are the premier source of intelligence info in 0.0 space as well. [/quote I challenge you to gather intel from a deathstar pos in a shuttle.
Franga Caldari NQX Innovations Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.13 00:58:00 - [29] I've heard shuttles don't tank well. Might just be a rumor. _____________________________ Eldo spanked my sig but I can't be bothered changing it just now.
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2007.10.13 01:15:00 - [30]

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