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Hermosa Diosas
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Posted - 2007.10.16 09:14:00 -
[1]
Thinks it time to address the problem with how the eve universe has shaped. Eve really is fairly new, and its only been the past couple of years its expanded, i remember only 10000 people max on the system.
So at this time obviously alliances have come and gone D2, ASCN etc and then BoB has clearly stamped its authority on half the universe. Morsus Mihi, Razor, Red, Goons, Pure and Triumvirate have all staked a very large part of eve, and really all the others you see that have sov are pretty much renters, most of them BoBs *****es - and yes you are...whether you like it or not (Take the Rise situation for example, Praes with Triumvirate) They dont really have control of the system Bob ALLOWS them to. And turfs them out whenever.
So what happens to these once 'friends' alliances? The move and have to fight for there space or dissolve like a lot have to, even the once mighty D2 and ASCN sadly died.
Thats not necessarly a bad thing howeverm because we need that balance.
So lets get to the point..
0.0 Space is running out now, and all thats left is the scraps, if you want to claim 0.0 then you have to be in one of the Already big alliances or try claim it yourself, which is impossible if your a small corp or alliance.
Its pretty difficult now to recruit to create a larger alliance as everyone wants to join the big alliances.
So the big alliances just get bigger and bigger and bigger, leaving small alliances dead in the water and no chance of expaning, as they quickly get squished.
This i feel truly unbalances the game, as eve will no doubt get bigger and more players will enter, i dont see the situation changing, and i feel eve will actually lose players due to the fact there will be no space left and no way to expand their own alliances, without becoming pets to say BoB, then get turfed out when they are no longer required.
Even the northern alliances are now doing the same, weeding out the smaller corps and alliances that have probably helped them more than their so called 'friends'
Yes eve can create more space like they did with drone regions (which to be honest nobody wanted as ratting drones aint very exciting is it) But then this will just get swallowed up by the big alliances yet again, just like Branch has dine recently.
I do feel that its time limits where set on the amount of space you can claim. Then super powers like bob, MM etc will not be as powerful as they are now, they wont be able to rent space for silly amounts of money and basically extorsion money jsut because alliances are desperate to get into 0.0.
Even before being in 0.0 guaranteed members, it no longer does.
There needs to be some balancing now and if that means taking space from big alliances then so be it, a limit needs to be set to allow other alliances to enjoy what eve is about.
If you look at the numbers the 32000 mark as stayed static for a long time. I feel that this game will just end up being home to the already powerful alliances and thats it.
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JoeyDee
Minmatar Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation
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Posted - 2007.10.16 09:17:00 -
[2]
Yo mate .err u need your corp thingies turned on.
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Mortuus
Minmatar Viper Squad Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.16 09:17:00 -
[3]
Really? Because we've fought for ever scrap of space we've taken, so has every other alliance in one way or another. If you put in the effort, you will reap the rewards.
ex-Occassus Republica <3 |
Hermosa Diosas
The-Secret-Service
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Posted - 2007.10.16 09:20:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Hermosa Diosas on 16/10/2007 09:22:48
Never said you hadnt, I had alot of respect for Tri until what the did to Prae, but look at how much space you have now, and to be honest you took what D2 left so you didnt really have to fight for it, BoB did that for you, and the people that was in there well wasnt that strong were they.
And arent Tri going down the resident/rent route..Yes they are...Give us lots of cash live in our space, dont take anything, and we will pretend to be friends, then throw you out when we want to be a bit more greedy.
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Talpa Iute
Murder-Death-Kill
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Posted - 2007.10.16 09:27:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Hermosa Diosas Edited by: Hermosa Diosas on 16/10/2007 09:22:48
Never said you hadnt, I had alot of respect for Tri until what the did to Prae, but look at how much space you have now, and to be honest you took what D2 left so you didnt really have to fight for it, BoB did that for you, and the people that was in there well wasnt that strong were they.
And arent Tri going down the resident/rent route..Yes they are...Give us lots of cash live in our space, dont take anything, and we will pretend to be friends, then throw you out when we want to be a bit more greedy.
Oy.. dont like it.. go kick them out and stop whining.
/Talpa _____________________________________________
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Hermosa Diosas
The-Secret-Service
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Posted - 2007.10.16 09:31:00 -
[6]
lol well done your the first idiot to post the usual Dont like it..post..
Congrats - here have a gold star for your efforts..
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Blind Escort
Xenobytes Stain Empire
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Posted - 2007.10.16 09:33:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Hermosa Diosas
bla-bla-bla
Translate:
I want to have ____ (put quantity here) personal 0.0 systems for mining and ratting BUT:
1) I don't have needful forces 2) I don't want pay tax 3) I don't want to create a strong PvP corp and have all this bull**** with PvP training, recruiting, logistic etc 4) I don't want to be involved into POS wars 5) I hope that large alliances will ignore me because I'm harmless little carebear and want to get mush ISK without any troubles
Right? |
Hermosa Diosas
The-Secret-Service
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Posted - 2007.10.16 09:36:00 -
[8]
Ermm no totally wrong atually..
We have a good strong pvp alliance, we havent carebeared we never do, we have actually been involved in helping with security of 0.0 space, and have been very active. So please get your facts right before you flame.
See i was waiting for all the pets to post and here they are...
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Cippalippus Primus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.16 09:36:00 -
[9]
CCP NERF BIG ALLIANCES THEY UNFAIR
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Hermosa Diosas
The-Secret-Service
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Posted - 2007.10.16 09:39:00 -
[10]
Yay a goon, see what i like here are the response of the people im talking about.
Please ccp dont take anything away from us, as we wont be able to coherese anyone anymore..
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Nekumi
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.16 09:40:00 -
[11]
CCP should reset the servers to be honest. Then everyone can start all over again and it would totally fair and stuff.
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Hermosa Diosas
The-Secret-Service
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Posted - 2007.10.16 09:42:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Nekumi CCP should reset the servers to be honest. Then everyone can start all over again and it would totally fair and stuff.
See its not difficult just to give a normal answer is it? And the best one yet
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Talpa Iute
Murder-Death-Kill
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Posted - 2007.10.16 09:43:00 -
[13]
To sum it up :
Originally by: Hermosa Diosas
....... Me and my mates are unable to take space for various reason, thus we fail, thus we go to the boards and whine. ......
Cry me a river.
/Talpa _____________________________________________
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Nekumi
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.16 09:47:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Hermosa Diosas
Originally by: Nekumi CCP should reset the servers to be honest. Then everyone can start all over again and it would totally fair and stuff.
See its not difficult just to give a normal answer is it? And the best one yet
Wow thanks, I never thought this would happen to me. I was gonna make my whine a little less extreme but now that you've given me some mad props for posting it, I feel vindicated that I made the right decision.
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Hermosa Diosas
The-Secret-Service
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Posted - 2007.10.16 09:50:00 -
[15]
Ermm again no your wrong.. we have our own space...
Obviously it seems we cant have a constructive discussion as usual, as the children are off school at the moment, so when mums and dads kick off the kids perhaps we can talk about this properly.
This isnt about me at all, it a general consensus. Ive played this game for a lot of years, been in alot of alliances spent alot of time in 0.0 so please dont humour me.
You dont like the what im saying - which is the truth then hey your problem..Anyway im not going to argue about it. You want to flame go ahead, its all that people do when they are faced with something they dont like or the truth its a natural reaction..
So i wont reply anymore and just see if people dare actually say something useful.
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Jakiri
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.16 09:53:00 -
[16]
Last I checked, noone counted VENOM as a superpower and yet they gained sov in Omist within the past couple of months, largely off the back of their own efforts.
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Kernel Sander
Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Combined Planetary Union
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Posted - 2007.10.16 09:55:00 -
[17]
Just to debunk the one remaining undiscredited remark the OP made, my alliance has never held station space before, and are now in Branch. Same for Destiny., our next-door neighbors to the west. That's two new alliances on the sov maps in the last few weeks.
Also, should TRI manage to win their war against YW, I highly doubt they would try to hold all of Cloud Ring, Fade and Pure Blind on top of lower Deklein, so I'd expect to see fresh faces arriving there as well. Or, even if TRI does decide to shoot for an empire (and assuming they win the war) events down south are going to leave huge swaths of depopulated territory ready for fighting over, regardless of who wins. Goons don't seem to want all that space, and the war is proving that the GBC is stretched about to its' limits holding the land it already has.
Powerbloc's in EVE are very mutable, and after this war is finished I expect things will settle out to their normal "we want more reds damnit" periodic standings resets, just like what's happening in the north right now (hence the solid week of twice daily "X anounces standings reset" threads coming from the north). --- THIS IS MY SIG. BUNNIES AND STUFF --- ----- INSERT ASCII AMIGA LOGO HERE ----- |
Kasak Black
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.10.16 10:00:00 -
[18]
Its not ALL about how much space you as an alliance lay claim to, its about many other things. For example, take Razor, they own a much larger area of space than AAA, yet if the two we're to have it out I would place my money on AAA.
btw I'm just giving an example. I have nothing but the upmost respect for Razor/Friends and what they have achived over the past few months.
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VoYvod
Murder-Death-Kill
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Posted - 2007.10.16 10:00:00 -
[19]
i'm pretty sure praes was NOT paying rent to tri , read that thread its in there somewhere
i recomend reading that thread again b4 making accusations about Tri and co.
and i agree with you to a point , small alliance that cant handle the taking of space - npc 0.0 awaits you (tri did it and look at them now)
there should be more 0.0 tho - the west of the eve map seems to be lacking space compared to the rest of eve(of real 0.0, not npc)
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Pychian Vanervi
Kasparov Stratagems
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Posted - 2007.10.16 10:03:00 -
[20]
Ok to the op, what would your hypothetical alliance of 100 bring to the table different to the already large power blocks that exist?
Would you have everyone as KOS, or NAP city and live as peacefully as you could. Oh yeah if you live peacefully then you may have the potential of becoming a 'pet'... and heaven forbid you become labled pet to a larger alliance.
Would you treat your space as a home for your own needs or share the wealth?
Would you think, hypothetically, if your alliance got to a larger size want more space or would you limit your alliance to the 100 mark for example?
Answer some of the questions above and maybe then other will see you have a very cunning plan in how your space will be run differently by being small?
Otherwise, its survival of the fittest, you become fit by being either big and over power or smart and be in the right place at the right time. Non of the big power blocks got where they are by sitting back and agreeing who has this part of 0.0 and who has that part. Its a hard world sh*t happens and you will have to come up with a better way to get in the game that to moan you are small.
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Upset Vet
Bitter Vets Inc
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Posted - 2007.10.16 10:11:00 -
[21]
I think the real issue isnt the fact that there isnt any space left, because most systems arent claimed in anyhthing other than name.
As I see it the real problem is the fact that space is difficult for smaller alliances to hold onto, mainly due to the whole pos/cap ship spam.
But then, like has been said before, it was never supposed to be easy.
Oh and technically there are limits now in the fact that you cant place more than 5 pos per alliance per day iirc.
I can guarantee that if the restrictions on claiming space were stringent enough to create the 'free systems' you seem to be looking for, then 0.0 would go back to being dead.
Just because they wouldnt be able to claim a system, doesn't stop them steamrolling the claimants just for laughs.
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Lazuran
Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation
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Posted - 2007.10.16 10:11:00 -
[22]
The EVE universe is far too small now, this is the main reason for blobbing. Until CCP realizes and fixes this, Alliances can forget about holding (good) space unless they are in the top 10 by population.
The current size of the universe is pushing it even for 10K concurrent players, especially since WTZ. It needs to be expanded by 3-5 times if EVE is to grow even more.
isn't it funny how some people advocate both GTC<=>ISK trades and EVE being superior due to its cruelty and costly losses, when they use the former to circumvent the latter?
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David Miliband
Evil Proctologists
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Posted - 2007.10.16 10:12:00 -
[23]
You have a point in that space is too easy to hold however your proposed solution of a territorial limit per entity is awful.
All the major territorial alliances live for one thing - to conquer the whole of 0.0. Some don't like to admit this because it is bad PR but it is nothing to be ashamed of, it's a natural product of the nature of the game. There are two types of employment in the game: military and industrial. To be an effective organisation in either of these two fields you need a pretty rigid hierarchical structure (as in the real world) now if you compare the ranks in these two hierarchies you will see why conquest is the ultimate goal of all major alliances and why they will never just be happy to peacefully settle down.
Military Hierachy - Industrial Hierachy Emperor - CEO General - Director Squad leader - Line Manager Soldier - Worker
Because of the nature of these hierarchies most people fit into the bottom rank ie. Soldier in a military organisation or Worker in an industrial one so let us (very simplistically) compare the pros and cons of these two jobs in a real world context.
Soldier: Pros: exciting Cons: dangerous
Worker: Pros: safe Cons: boring
however in the context of a game your safety is immaterial as the penalty for injury or death is extremely low in comparison to real life and so in Eve being a soldier has no relative penalties and being a worker has no relative benefits. So if you belong to a large organisation you want to belong to one that is on a war footing for as large a proportion of the time as is possible however if you artificially limit the number of systems an entity can hold then once it has achieved its limit it will die as it has reached it's ultimate goal. So in effect the ideal system in Eve is one where the ultimate goal is almost impossible to achieve and that is very nearly what we have at the moment; however it is not quite what we have in that it is conceivable that one of the power blocs of Eve could take over the whole Eve universe hence you have a point in that space is too easy to control.
I propose that a better solution would be to nerf the blob in a way that didn't involve an artificial limit but an increasing penalty with blob size (line of sight firing, ship collisions, removing names from overview, sensor interference etc) and reducing stront timers to a maximum of 36 hours (this was rumoured to be in the pipeline a while ago iirc but it never happened). This would make large tracts of space much more difficult to control and would reduce the power differential between large and small alliances. Incidentally sov itself is a completely artificial system and I believe in an ideal situation would not be a part of game mechanics, just got to figure out a reasonable way of removing it :)
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sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente The JORG Corporation Methods of Mayhem Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.16 10:14:00 -
[24]
The fact is that ppl in this game want to win, or at least they do not want to lose. This means that when a fight starts they will gather as many blue buddies together as possable so no matter what happens there will always be massive numbers of ppl either in a single alliance or in a group of them.
I agree that as a new alliance you will have an almost impossable time at the moment to gain a foot hold in 0.0 without having a lot of blues around you unless your a largeish alliance and you pick the correct area to live. Isuggest if your looking for a nice bit of real estate in 0.0 you do your home work and a bit of advanced diplomacy and see what you can find.
My views may represent those of my corp/alliance but you will have to ask em to be sure. |
Hermosa Diosas
The-Secret-Service
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Posted - 2007.10.16 10:24:00 -
[25]
Ok i just to need respond to a few points
Quote: i'm pretty sure praes was NOT paying rent to tri , read that thread its in there somewhere
i recomend reading that thread again b4 making accusations about Tri and co.
1) Never said Prae rented off Tri at all m8, I was stating that when Tri decided they didnt want them they turfed them out which is true. And I did state i had the utmost respect for Tri for what they have done, but they have become like the rest, which they promised not to do when they started.
Quote: Its not ALL about how much space you as an alliance lay claim to, its about many other things
Totally agree, my post says we should cut down the amount of space some can have, you guys yes dont need to claim loads of it, but still very strong, so that to be is perfect, you havent had the need to take over the universe.
Ok with Psychian
Quote: Would you have everyone as KOS, or NAP city and live as peacefully as you could. Oh yeah if you live peacefully then you may have the potential of becoming a 'pet'... and heaven forbid you become labled pet to a larger alliance.
Ok everyone needs some friends in the areas you are in. You can live around each other without being a pet. If there was a balance perhaps alliances would be of much more equal size. Eve is fickle that way as soon as an alliance aint doing so great look how mnay people soon leave...
Honestly do you think if BoB, Razor etc came in the game now they would achieve what they have now? NOT A CHANCE, why? because they established themselve whilst eve was still very very quiet in terms of numbers. All im saying is the future, im not knocking anyones achievements, far from it. Im stating that from this point as space is running out, the big alliances are much more established now, and for new people coming into the game its basically impossible to gain the same level.
Quote: Would you treat your space as a home for your own needs or share the wealth?
Well if you had you own equal slice then it would be for yourself of course..
Quote: Would you think, hypothetically, if your alliance got to a larger size want more space or would you limit your alliance to the 100 mark for example?
Again im not saying limit the size, im saying limit the space they can have.
Id rather have a 300 strong man alliance anyday than a 1500 weak fragmented one.
Guys this isnt a moan or critism at all, look its plain to see space is running out, this isnt only the future of alliances but eve as a game and its survivablity.
Also to state alliances dont talk with each other about what space to own is total rubbish, as i know its goes on by first hand knowledge.
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Ahistaja
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.16 10:24:00 -
[26]
If you don't have the power, and you can't make friends, then what makes you think you deserve any space of your own in the first place?
It's not particularly hard to find an unoccupied piece of space to move to. The key is to get along with your neighbors, one way or another.
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Heikki
Gallente Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.16 10:32:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Hermosa Diosas limits where set on the amount of space you can claim
Any suggestions how to effectively set such limits? People are quick to go around artificial limits; splitting alliance to smaller units, getting alt members/corps etc.
Even making conquered space hard to maintain would just mean renters would have to sweat some more.
What you really seem to miss are those nostalgic simpler times. Even if we did full server reset, the situation wouldn't much differ. Tri would be there as well, just fighting with kestrels instead of dreads.
If the game is about conquering space, the people will learn how to do it well.
-Lasse for amnesia instead
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arghy steelwill
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.16 10:33:00 -
[28]
Damn i seem to remember a certain alliance that was a couple hundred active players in NPC 0.0(HURR) hell look what they became after they simply tryed? You are all fricken spoiled- you need to fight for 0.0 if you dont like it go back to empire. Do you know what i did in GS to enjoy its space? how many countless hours of POS sieges and a constant war ever since i joined- this is why i play the game.
So we ruled out skill points with goonswarm and we ruled out numbers with RA, so do you just suck?
Shot at 2007-07-19 |
Hermosa Diosas
The-Secret-Service
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Posted - 2007.10.16 10:35:00 -
[29]
Hmmm this aint real life tho is it..its a game.
So what about all the other players that now what to join? Remember eve is still very small compared to the MMO market..
If players cant expand then Eve IMO can only fail to expand too..Or shall we now just stick the big alliances that we now have and be done with it?
So my point big get bigger small disappear rings true
Its a game not RL.
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Hermosa Diosas
The-Secret-Service
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Posted - 2007.10.16 10:38:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Hermosa Diosas on 16/10/2007 10:38:09
Originally by: arghy steelwill Damn i seem to remember a certain alliance that was a couple hundred active players in NPC 0.0(HURR) hell look what they became after they simply tryed? You are all fricken spoiled- you need to fight for 0.0 if you dont like it go back to empire. Do you know what i did in GS to enjoy its space? how many countless hours of POS sieges and a constant war ever since i joined- this is why i play the game.
So we ruled out skill points with goonswarm and we ruled out numbers with RA, so do you just suck?
Argy your a being just an idiot now- read my posts THIS ISNT ABOUT US FOR CRYING OUT FECKING LOUD!!!
If you get excited about POS sieges then i feel for you.
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