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Dragon Lord Caldari InQuest Ascension R i s e	Posted - 2007.10.17 21:03:00 - [1] Well its happened, Torps are now useless in missions. The max range of all torps is now know more than 40kms, the base range of javs is now a mear 13.5kms, with no skills. On the up side the javs have there old exp radius back, as do normal torps and rage torps. And the rof on the siege missiles is skill 33% quicker so you still get nice dps. It looks like caldari have ther high dmg short range weapons now, so id better dust down my cruise missile launchers for pve because after testing the new javs i loose to much time closing down the npcs. Guess this should pull the raven and cnr back in line with other ships when it comes to pve. As for pvp, looks like if you get close to a raven its gonna realy realy hert, but stay at range and they can do nothing with siege. Just need an agility buff to the raven know so we can actually get in range like the other close range high dmg bs's.
Okkie2	Posted - 2007.10.17 22:11:00 - [2] I'm usually at less then 30km in my Raven when doing lvl4 missions so sounds like a nice buff to me Furthermore it was about time cruises and torps got different stats. I do agree on the agility though, for PvP those torps sounds very nice, but there's no way anybody will let a Raven come close enough to fire them.
Slayton Ford Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.17 22:19:00 - [3] The fix for the PvE'rs is for defenders to take 2 hits to pop a cruise, not 1. --------------- This sig has been censored in fear of recieving the ban hammer...
NoNah Unseen University	Posted - 2007.10.17 22:19:00 - [4] Originally by: Dragon Lord Well its happened, Torps are now useless in missions. The max range of all torps is now know more than 40kms, the base range of javs is now a mear 13.5kms, with no skills. On the up side the javs have there old exp radius back, as do normal torps and rage torps. And the rof on the siege missiles is skill 33% quicker so you still get nice dps. It looks like caldari have ther high dmg short range weapons now, so id better dust down my cruise missile launchers for pve because after testing the new javs i loose to much time closing down the npcs. Guess this should pull the raven and cnr back in line with other ships when it comes to pve. As for pvp, looks like if you get close to a raven its gonna realy realy hert, but stay at range and they can do nothing with siege. Just need an agility buff to the raven know so we can actually get in range like the other close range high dmg bs's. You realize were still talking 30km optimal for a "shortrange" capless ew-immune weapon right? Keeping your range won't be an option really. =) Postcount: 433472 [02:40:22] <elmickers> if you're caldari in a fleet fight, bring a corp
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.18 00:38:00 - [5] Originally by: Dragon Lord As for pvp, looks like if you get close to a raven its gonna realy realy hert, but stay at range and they can do nothing with siege. siege 30k range neutron II: optimal @ 6.8k with void and max skills.
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.10.18 04:21:00 - [6] Switch to javelins. With that RoF bonus they are very very good for missions. Assuming they wont get nerfed under 120 km range with max skills before change hits TQ.
murder one Gallente Blood Corsair's	Posted - 2007.10.18 04:44:00 - [7] Until torps have a max range of 10km or less, I don't want to hear any Caldari noob whining about 'short ranged'. 30km is 'long range' when it comes to small/medium gang PVP. [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2 Fleet Combat Ships
Dragon Lord Caldari InQuest Ascension R i s e	Posted - 2007.10.18 07:19:00 - [8] Originally by: Carniflex Switch to javelins. With that RoF bonus they are very very good for missions. Assuming they wont get nerfed under 120 km range with max skills before change hits TQ. If you read my post i state that jav range is under 40kms now so no javs arent so good for missions anymore and im not complaining, i always liked my cruise cnr anyway.
iudex Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.18 07:36:00 - [9] Originally by: Dragon Lord ... Guess this should pull the raven and cnr back in line with other ships when it comes to pve. .. . Oh c'mon we all know cruise missiles are better for missions, even before any changes. Being able to take out the ships at 70km with cruises traveling with 8.4km/s before a torp would even arrive there, killing frigs, cruisers and even bc faster than torps, and most important: comfortable afk missionrunning with fof cruises. Never understood that people who used torps ... ok they finished some of the mission faster, when they used targetpainters and fired only that much torps as it took to finish the enemy ship and not more etc. but what a stress, targeting evry ship, painting it, firing only few torps (if they fire those slow torps on the ship untill its dead it actually takes longer for it to die than using fast travelling cruises) - compared to activating launchers with fof cruises every 3 minutes on many missions. The CNR is still the undisputed missionrunner-king, the only ship that could take it's throne is the Golem, but for being sure we must wait for more info on Golem's ship bonus. My skills
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.10.18 07:58:00 - [10] Originally by: Dragon Lord Originally by: Carniflex Switch to javelins. With that RoF bonus they are very very good for missions. Assuming they wont get nerfed under 120 km range with max skills before change hits TQ. If you read my post i state that jav range is under 40kms now so no javs arent so good for missions anymore and im not complaining, i always liked my cruise cnr anyway. Jep. Noticed javelin torp range reduction in SiSi after I had posted. It's not final ofc, but I think it's unlikely that they would rise javelin range enough from current values on SiSi to be useful in level 4 missions. My mission running wingman-alt will finish cruise missiles lev 1 in few minutes .
Qui Shon	Posted - 2007.10.18 08:57:00 - [11] Originally by: Dragon Lord Well its happened, Torps are now useless in missions. The max range of all torps is now know more than 40kms, the base range of javs is now a mear 13.5kms, with no skills. On the up side the javs have there old exp radius back, as do normal torps and rage torps. And the rof on the siege missiles is skill 33% quicker so you still get nice dps. So the exp radius of all torps is back to 400, did I understand you correctly?
Dragon Lord Caldari InQuest Ascension R i s e	Posted - 2007.10.18 11:03:00 - [12] Originally by: Qui Shon Originally by: Dragon Lord Well its happened, Torps are now useless in missions. The max range of all torps is now know more than 40kms, the base range of javs is now a mear 13.5kms, with no skills. On the up side the javs have there old exp radius back, as do normal torps and rage torps. And the rof on the siege missiles is skill 33% quicker so you still get nice dps. So the exp radius of all torps is back to 400, did I understand you correctly? No Javs have 350m exp radius as they did last year before they got nerfed all to hell, normal torps are 450m and rage 530m
Dominator9987 Minmatar The Shambling Horde	Posted - 2007.10.18 12:18:00 - [13] Torps make me sleepy when Im doing PvE. If I get stuck in a raven doing a mission, I want things zipping around and explosions that arent excessive beyond their actual damage...
ardik TunkbwahCorp	Posted - 2007.10.18 19:48:00 - [14] so use cruise missiles?
Dragon Lord Caldari InQuest Ascension R i s e	Posted - 2007.10.18 20:07:00 - [15] Yes use cruise missiles, ive always liked them better than torps anyway, but torps at the moment are still faster in missions than cruise and if have tested both a hell of a lot. So cruise raven ftw :) And i like the changes to torps as it gives caldari some major dps in close combat at the exp radius allows full dmg to other bs's. The only aside id make is how exactly do you close a target down in a raven? every other race is quicker than caldari which for me always seemed wrong.
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.10.18 21:37:00 - [16] Originally by: Dragon Lord Yes use cruise missiles, ive always liked them better than torps anyway, but torps at the moment are still faster in missions than cruise and if have tested both a hell of a lot. So cruise raven ftw :) And i like the changes to torps as it gives caldari some major dps in close combat at the exp radius allows full dmg to other bs's. The only aside id make is how exactly do you close a target down in a raven? every other race is quicker than caldari which for me always seemed wrong. In my experience most pvp action takes place within scram range. And torps are (currently on TQ) so slow you wouldn't want to use them in long range fights anyway. So it seems to me they're actually getting a hell of a boost. Especially considering it takes three defenders to take out a torp. More since they'll only be fired from within 30km now. You can just forget about shooting them down. ----------- Support fixing the EVE UI
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.10.18 23:10:00 - [17] /waiting for Leandro Salazar to post... * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Toria Nynys Minmatar	Posted - 2007.10.19 02:52:00 - [18] Yay I'm flavor of the month for mission running! Go me!
Dungar Loghoth Caldari Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.10.20 16:16:00 - [19] Originally by: ardik so use cruise missiles? Cruises have always been better than torps, even if you are dual-boxing/running missions with multiple people. People that disagree are usually the same people that fit six hardeners or salvagers on their ravens.
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.10.21 15:40:00 - [20] Originally by: Dungar Loghoth Originally by: ardik so use cruise missiles? Cruises have always been better than torps, even if you are dual-boxing/running missions with multiple people. People that disagree are usually the same people that fit six hardeners or salvagers on their ravens. I don't think you have actual experience with torps to claim that. I have used and still use until nerf hits both faction fitted torpedo and cruise CNR. Currently torpedo CNR is approx 25 % faster in missions than cruise CNR, assuming you have skills and rest of the setup reasonable. After the torpedo change then indeed, cruise will be better as torp range will not be enough for level 4 missions.
Xorth Adimus	Posted - 2007.10.31 12:32:00 - [21] The new change to torpedos will be very interesting. Yes- solo PVE cruise missiles are best all around Torpedos are very useful (and fun!) on any mission where the enemy is mostly battleships and especially for taking out a bonus drop battlestation, or if your in a PVE group where you can concentrate on battleships. Caldari ships are great for PVP gangs in a major support role. Don't listen to those idiots who claim caldari are rubbish at PVP. Its fear and ignorance speaking. DPS is lower at close range by comparison but missiles are much more flexable then any other weapon and you'll never be under or over optimal range take advantage of this! Torpedos are used in PVP and are pretty nasty for shock damage to break tanks in group 0.0 skirmishes. I have been on the recieving end of this myself, Torp ravens on gatecamps are as regular and deadly as any other battleship. This change will make torpedos even better for PVP and I look forward to it. What I would like to see is a fast caldari torpedo ship (T2 caldari battlecruiser/battleship, that at least appears to move!) to take advantage of this. I think the new T2 caldari battleships may supply this from the stats I have seen so far. For now I'll stick with my new typhoon! Xorth Adimus - Zero Divide

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