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Verx Interis
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Posted - 2007.10.18 01:36:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Gamesguy
You ARE aware the super skills on sisi yesterday bugged a LOT of things right? Things like abaddons with 120% resists to all 4 damage types, and moros with 800x damage mod.
And -16090 Duration. Also there is no way an ogre II can do 20k damage in one shot.
-----sig-starts-here------
I not what know I is doing. |
Helderharrim
Segunda Fundacion
O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.10.18 02:03:00 -
[32]
Funny figth 
No Comment |
Stakhanov
Katana's Edge
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Posted - 2007.10.18 02:05:00 -
[33]
I get the feeling , from the killboard link alone , that their gang was much more organized than yours. Your ship types seem very random , definitely not a gang meant to counter speedy opponents. Obviously 2 huginns won't be enough to catch 34 nanoships...
Maybe you should have been using some logistics ships - or just remote reppers on most of your fleet. Hell , even just a core of remote repping / rep drones BS with heavy neuts on the domi might have saved your gang.
It's perfectly normal that a disorganized and poorly fitted (seen some ratting fits , and a frightening amount of stasis webifier Is) blob of random ship dies to a dedicated hunting gang. Still , you killed 1/4 of their nanoships , so it's not like there is an invulnerability issue.
Originally by: F'nog
One does not simply log into Jita.
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Gamesguy
Amarr
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.18 02:25:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Riebart Norith
Edited by: Riebart Norith on 18/10/2007 01:25:49
Edited by: Riebart Norith on 18/10/2007 01:23:40
Originally by: Gamesguy
Originally by: Riebart Norith
Edited by: Riebart Norith on 18/10/2007 01:05:59
Originally by: Gamesguy
Originally by: Riebart Norith
Stuff...
I'd love to see this magical domi that goes 7km/s with no faction stuff and only a snake set.
Built one on SiSi the other day. Lots of fun 
You ARE aware the super skills on sisi yesterday bugged a LOT of things right? Things like abaddons with 120% resists to all 4 damage types, and moros with 800x damage mod.
You MIGHT wanna actually try this on eft before you go telling everyone how its possible(hint, its not).
Did it a few weeks back; not yesterday. Try again.
Edit: For the record. I'm ok with nanoships in general, but it's the excessive speed that is achievable on them that's a problem. The fact that webber drones are so....meh, I don't like that. Give me light web drones, and I'll be happy.
Edit 2: EFT's calculations based on mass reduction for MWDs is grossly inaccurate. Also, try overloading the MWD. When Trinity 2 hits, that will be an actually viable strategy (In-space module repping and heat dispersion!)
I'm gonna have to call proof or stfu on this one.
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Riebart Norith
Gallente
Interstellar Business Federation
Tartarus Coalition
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Posted - 2007.10.18 02:59:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Gamesguy
Stuff...
I'm gonna have to call proof or stfu on this one.
Setup used:
100MN MWD II (Overloaded)
3x Local hull ODIs, 2x Local hull nanofibers, 2x local hull i-stabs
2x polycarb II, 1x low-friction II
HG Snake set (Don't forget the omega!)
Navigation 5
EFT says 6457, and it is low on it's estimates when using mass reduction. Actual max was closer to 7000 (6875 or something). I rounded to 7km/s for dramatic effect. Sue me. 
Replacing it with all-faction/T2 gear, with the applicable hardwirings (CY-2 and MY-2) and EFT spits out 9221 m/s  .
Happy now? Try and tell me this is a natural use of a Domi. Remember this is post nerf. pre-nerf this would be up around 11km/s I think. We're talking serious ISK investment, but a Domi that can outrun everything else in Eve that isn't also a nanoship is a problem. The Domi should max out with this setup at 5km/s or so, not 9.
If you still don't believe me, try it out on Multiplicity or SiSi (No uber skills now).
Have fun!
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[ 2006.10.09 03:03:14 ] (combat) The Forum Whiner strikes My Patience perfectly, wrecking for A Spite Filled Post of Doom. |
Sharupak
Minmatar
Knights Of the Black Sun
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.10.18 03:14:00 -
[36]
Please watch this very informative instructional video on EVE Game mechanics! As this is what you nerf whiners sound like! I think you will find it most helpfull.
Linkage
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RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude. |
Brunswick2
coracao ardente
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.18 03:32:00 -
[37]
Nobody actually uses nanodomis though anyway. The nano nerf pretty much killed the days of the nano bs.
Right now, there are 5 main strategies in eve:
Ubergank
Ubertank
UberTOTALHELLDEATH blob
EW
and nano speed
Nerfing nanos would just further limit the different ways of fighting in eve (making it even more centered around blobbing).
There are other ways to counter a nano gang than just webs. Go for heavy tank with logistics ships, no way a nanogang will be able to do enough dps to beat a well organized turtle gang.
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Gamesguy
Amarr
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.18 03:33:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Riebart Norith
Setup used:
100MN MWD II (Overloaded)
3x Local hull ODIs, 2x Local hull nanofibers, 2x local hull i-stabs
2x polycarb II, 1x low-friction II
HG Snake set (Don't forget the omega!)
Navigation 5
EFT says 6457, and it is low on it's estimates when using mass reduction. Actual max was closer to 7000 (6875 or something). I rounded to 7km/s for dramatic effect. Sue me.
Replacing it with all-faction/T2 gear, with the applicable hardwirings (CY-2 and MY-2) and EFT spits out 9221 m/s .
Happy now? Try and tell me this is a natural use of a Domi. Remember this is post nerf. pre-nerf this would be up around 11km/s I think. We're talking serious ISK investment, but a Domi that can outrun everything else in Eve that isn't also a nanoship is a problem. The Domi should max out with this setup at 5km/s or so, not 9.
If you still don't believe me, try it out on Multiplicity or SiSi (No uber skills now).
Have fun!
Edit: No faction stuff, just T2 lows and a T2 MWD, EFT reports 7100 m/s......So if you can say that Nanoships are ok, then you're justifying a 7km/s Domi. Think about that for a second...
P.S: With T1 rigs, and T2 mods, you get 6500 m/s or so.
Overload isnt sustainable, its only good for like 4 cycles, without it goes 3.8km/s.
In addition, the problems is more with snakes than nano-fits. Without the snake set the domi is only 2.5km/sec.
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Fenderson
Finite Horizon
Synchr0nicity
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Posted - 2007.10.18 03:34:00 -
[39]
organization, planning, and skill should always trump numbers.
if they had killed you with a well organized remote tanking gang you would be crying "OMGHAX nerf remote tanking!"
the point is that you were attacked by a well organized gang of t2 ships and responded with inferior setups/tactics.
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WarGod
The Illuminati.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.18 04:16:00 -
[40]
Edited by: WarGod on 18/10/2007 04:16:14
2 tired 2 read all that but, u wonna kill a nano gang, make sure ur ships got good tracking, some1 said on TS the abso is tracking well so he got called coz of it, and fit more webs? bring rapiers? overload ur webs? theres a reason 2 huginns got killed at the start.
Plus id like to state your guys suck at focusing fire - ALOT, so u wonna blame some1 u should blame them tbh.
other then that. GF
p.s. theres nothing wrong with using nanos, but when 1 tactic beats another u shouldnt complain to get it removed coz u didnt win.
its not like snakes come cheap :P
You Know! |
Tomic
The Illuminati.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.18 04:27:00 -
[41]
I have to totally agree with wargod. If a gang comes roaming and it's t2 ships, with t2 fittings and rigs (and expensive implants on some :P) it should beat a gang of t1 ships, piloted by idiots with bad fittings and no expensive extras (rigs, implants etc.) This is not a case of OMGHAX fix the nanos. It is a case of a gang outclassed you in every respect.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.10.18 04:33:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Dark Motoko
STUFF FROM THE OP
We need one of two things. Either the microwarpdrives or the shiptypes so compatible with them need to be rebalanced, or new counters need to be introduced. Ideas such as a webbing interdiction sphere for example, or for the base range of webbers to be increased would fit well. If not, I predict in months to come we'll start to see more and more larger fleets with nothing but speed tanked ships and eve will all be about how fast you can go.
Somebody didn't look at the new "cruiser interdictor" thread and its new toy, the 16km webbing/scrambling/mass-reducing/propulsion-nerfing ship-centered field.
Not only does it reduce the speed of the ships caught in it, it reduces it very fast too, so that they can no longer get away from it on inertia alone.
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Gamesguy
Amarr
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.18 04:50:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Dark Motoko
STUFF FROM THE OP
We need one of two things. Either the microwarpdrives or the shiptypes so compatible with them need to be rebalanced, or new counters need to be introduced. Ideas such as a webbing interdiction sphere for example, or for the base range of webbers to be increased would fit well. If not, I predict in months to come we'll start to see more and more larger fleets with nothing but speed tanked ships and eve will all be about how fast you can go.
Somebody didn't look at the new "cruiser interdictor" thread and its new toy, the 16km webbing/scrambling/mass-reducing/propulsion-nerfing ship-centered field.
Not only does it reduce the speed of the ships caught in it, it reduces it very fast too, so that they can no longer get away from it on inertia alone.
Actually I'm pretty sure the penalties only affect the dictor, not a bubble effect.
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gojwer
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Posted - 2007.10.18 05:35:00 -
[44]
/signed
2km/s should be good enough for the max a ship can go in this game.
only small guns should be able to hit something going 2km/s, with identical skills and implants as a medium+ gun user.
webs and warp drive disrupters force these 4km/s ships outside your range which makes them a long range invincible ship. I think the point that they are invincible unless you have a ship that can catch them is the problem.
how is invincibility fair ever? isnt that the reason ECMs were nerfed before? even with ECMs theres still smartbombs and FoF missiles (though they should really be called heatseekers, FoF means friend or foe, and so should be able to judge which target to hit by the FoF emitter on ships, which means allies should NOT be getting hit by them, if you know anything about what FoF is and is based on. these missiles should be renamed sigseekers or heatseekers.)
now the changes will give even more bonuses to distance for webbing, which means that if they hit you first with web they can orbit you with impunity, even if you were designed to catch them.
its becoming a system of "it takes a ship A to beat ship A, anything else is useless". for all those saying its a complex rock paper scissor game, look at that, it takes rock to beat rock, woo
I dont really like webs at all anyway, if they didnt exist frigates wouldnt need such speed, which means speed could be nerfed, at aleast as far as stackable bonuses go, and then it would be a matter of bringing missiles, frigates and destroyers to a fight instead of, "look they have intys at 5km/s out of our web range, we lose.".
truthfully I do have my own agenda, I really want frigates to be viable in close range combat so my desy can be viable with short range dps guns and we'll all be in the mix fighting for our lives instead of "they have invincible tactics set, we lose".
for the record, T2 was designed to be more specialized ships, not superior ships, see stealth bombers.
before intys, the unnerfed stackable bonuses were fine with frigates, but I somehow think it was some people's whining that got intys put in in the first place, which is just more bonuses to bonuses.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.10.18 05:39:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Akita T on 18/10/2007 05:43:02
Originally by: Gamesguy
Actually I'm pretty sure the penalties only affect the dictor, not a bubble effect.
And you're basing that "sureness" on what exactly ?
To me personally, it makes no sense whatsoever to have that effect on the ship only, could as well just made it a "speed -100%" (or -95%, whatever) mod instead.
_
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mechtech
Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2007.10.18 05:57:00 -
[46]
A nano ship only does about 1/2 the damage as a normal ship, and has no tank other than speed. With a properly fitted gang, 1/2 the amount of ships can take out a nano gang. They will be further nerfed when damps are changed.
They've already nerfed speed once, they don't need to do it again, ships in eve already feel slow. Adapt or die.
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Brunswick2
coracao ardente
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.18 06:01:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 18/10/2007 05:43:02
Originally by: Gamesguy
Actually I'm pretty sure the penalties only affect the dictor, not a bubble effect.
And you're basing that "sureness" on what exactly ?
To me personally, it makes no sense whatsoever to have that effect on the ship only, could as well just made it a "speed -100%" (or -95%, whatever) mod instead.
If it reduced speed it would also be ridiculously overpowered.
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Reem Fairchild
Minmatar
Republic University
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Posted - 2007.10.18 06:18:00 -
[48]
Originally by: mechtech
A nano ship only does about 1/2 the damage as a normal ship, and has no tank other than speed.
A Vagabond can fit 2 large shield extenders and a have a total of some 8k shield hp (while being able to fit everything else it needs to fight in a normal speed fit) and has pretty high base shield resists across the board. I think that counts as a pretty reasonable shield tank.
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Dr Ming
Mindworks
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Posted - 2007.10.18 06:22:00 -
[49]
I highly doubt the heavy interdictors will have an anti-inertia, anti-speed, anti-warp bubble.
It would break the game beyond all measure for amazingly obvious reasons.
It makes far more sense that their supposed to be slow moving bubbles designed to be remote repped to keep smart-bombing super-caps pinned.
I think the real nanoship 'nerf' are the new interceptor bonuses. Vaga and Ishtar pilots might not think their so clever when an interceptor is perma running a 28km Tech2 warp disruptor + MWD.
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gregory j
Gallente
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Chaos Incarnate.
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Posted - 2007.10.18 06:32:00 -
[50]
From the KB it looks like the trouble you had was more based on organization and tactics than game mechanics. However, I do agree on the matter of speed.
I think a potential solution could be to stretch out the velocities of different ship classes so that they were more unique in their respective roles.
For instance, I hate the vagabond, but I firmly believe it should be the fastest HAC in game and that there is nothing inherently wrong with its speed...that is its purpose after all.
However, it is bizarre (imo) that T1 battleships should be able to achieve much higher velocities than non-deadspace interceptors.
By leaving BS's as they are and then giving each ship class below them a respectively higher base speed based on the ship class size, there may be less overlapping in ship roles and even the room for ship classes like AF's to be more useful again. Inties and BS's should not even be in the same realm of speed in any normal circumstance...but it has become a common sight.
These are just ideas, but the main thing is that I'd like to see them do something more constructive than nerfing speed...EVE is already significantly less dynamic than it used to be because of all the nerfing.
------------------------------------------------
2007.02.22 03:34
This evemail message is subject to a CSPA service charge of 2,000,000,000 ISK, which you must accept to complete the invitation. |
Nyack
GREY COUNCIL
Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.10.18 06:40:00 -
[51]
also have to consider.. sure there are coutners to nano gangs (guilty as charged)but a nano gang wont fight a gang that has effective counter.. as soon as they see your huginns, rapier cruise ravens etc they will simply disengage having lsot maybe 1 or 2 ships tops and continue to roam..
the thing i dont like about nano gangs isnt that they cant be coutnered but if countered you will not kill them just scare them away.. experienced nano gangs pick their fight and on rare occasions they will maybe loose a few fights..
on the other hand if you get an effective counter to nanogangs we will jsut go back to recon gangs again.. when everyone cloaks instead of speed to avoid unfavoured fights.. the black ops BS wont help in that aspect jsut make it worse...
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Reem Fairchild
Minmatar
Republic University
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Posted - 2007.10.18 06:45:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Nyack
also have to consider.. sure there are coutners to nano gangs (guilty as charged)but a nano gang wont fight a gang that has effective counter.. as soon as they see your huginns, rapier cruise ravens etc they will simply disengage having lsot maybe 1 or 2 ships tops and continue to roam..
the thing i dont like about nano gangs isnt that they cant be coutnered but if countered you will not kill them just scare them away.. experienced nano gangs pick their fight and on rare occasions they will maybe loose a few fights..
on the other hand if you get an effective counter to nanogangs we will jsut go back to recon gangs again.. when everyone cloaks instead of speed to avoid unfavoured fights.. the black ops BS wont help in that aspect jsut make it worse...
I don't see how any of that is wrong or a problem. Speed should give you this advantage. It does in real life war. Read up on steppe nomad horse archer armies in ancient and medieval times.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.10.18 06:52:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Brunswick2
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Gamesguy
Actually I'm pretty sure the penalties only affect the dictor, not a bubble effect.
And you're basing that "sureness" on what exactly ?
To me personally, it makes no sense whatsoever to have that effect on the ship only, could as well just made it a "speed -100%" (or -95%, whatever) mod instead.
If it reduced speed it would also be ridiculously overpowered.
So, an infinite strength warp disruption area-of-effect items are not overpowered, but a moderate webbing area of effect one is ?
_
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Imperius Blackheart
Caldari
Trinity Nova
KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.18 07:18:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Roscoee
Originally by: Imperius Blackheart
Apart from having fast ships of your own with webs on them, I notice you had no precision cruise missiles in your gang as well. T2 > T1.
Don't complain, adapt.
Try reading comprehension ftw. The point of the OP is that is EVE is turning into a race of speed
I was purely pointing out that there are plenty of counters to it, having a decent amount of anti support ships and weapons is a must. If you find yourself facing something often adapt to it.
There always should be and will be fast weak ships and heavy hitting slower ones. The original poster was complaining about a lack of counters, i'd point out target painters/webs and T2 precision ammo.
http://www.myspace.com/cakeisalie
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Nyack
GREY COUNCIL
Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.10.18 07:53:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Reem Fairchild
I don't see how any of that is wrong or a problem. Speed should give you this advantage. It does in real life war. Read up on steppe nomad horse archer armies in ancient and medieval times.
well this is a game not RL it takes the fun out of the game.. if people can time and time again avoid the fights.. if you choose a fight your in it until you are either dead or have killed of most of your enemy. I dont see it as fun to get into a fight.. ooh **** they got a couple of rapier, disengage and move on..
capital warfare offers this kind of fights still, if you cyno in dreads and carriers you either win the fight or you die.. often you dont escape the fight(bar superaps).. that is however big engagements and brings lags.. small size fights should have the same type of play style but without the lag =)
i dont have the read up on history.. this is eve not cavalry..
ccp says they want to offer small scale engagement but these days you can roam with a gang deep in 0,0 and only find cloaking ratters and speed gangs.. yeay thats fun...
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Barkode
Fourth Dimension
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Posted - 2007.10.18 08:23:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Nyack
Originally by: Reem Fairchild
I don't see how any of that is wrong or a problem. Speed should give you this advantage. It does in real life war. Read up on steppe nomad horse archer armies in ancient and medieval times.
well this is a game not RL it takes the fun out of the game.. if people can time and time again avoid the fights.. if you choose a fight your in it until you are either dead or have killed of most of your enemy. I dont see it as fun to get into a fight.. ooh **** they got a couple of rapier, disengage and move on..
capital warfare offers this kind of fights still, if you cyno in dreads and carriers you either win the fight or you die.. often you dont escape the fight(bar superaps).. that is however big engagements and brings lags.. small size fights should have the same type of play style but without the lag =)
i dont have the read up on history.. this is eve not cavalry..
ccp says they want to offer small scale engagement but these days you can roam with a gang deep in 0,0 and only find cloaking ratters and speed gangs.. yeay thats fun...
So the answer is to sit on a gate all day in cloaked BS? 
Looks like Tri had a good time.
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Sovereignty Level Warfare a.k.a. No Alliance Left Behind |
Semkhet
KR0M
The Red Skull
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Posted - 2007.10.18 08:44:00 -
[57]
So lemme see if I understand correctly...
Raw firepower was well in favor of the OP's wing, fielding no less than 11 BS, 3 CS, 5 BC, 2 HAC and 3 recons against 3 CS, 11 HAC, 3 recon, the rest being dictors and ceptors.
It's interesting to check the various KM's and discover how TRI's FC did a better job than his opponent. In the 4 first minutes of the engagement, TRI destroyed opponent's ships at an average rate of one every 16 seconds.
Furthermore, while the fight lasted a total of 18 minutes, the only kill against TRI during the last 12 minutes was a pod. In the mean time, TRI downed no less than 8 BS, 1 CS and 3 BC...
Why do I believe that your FC must have sucked big time ? It's not the speed which is the culprit.
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Reem Fairchild
Minmatar
Republic University
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Posted - 2007.10.18 09:02:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Nyack
Originally by: Reem Fairchild
I don't see how any of that is wrong or a problem. Speed should give you this advantage. It does in real life war. Read up on steppe nomad horse archer armies in ancient and medieval times.
well this is a game not RL it takes the fun out of the game.. if people can time and time again avoid the fights.. if you choose a fight your in it until you are either dead or have killed of most of your enemy. I dont see it as fun to get into a fight.. ooh **** they got a couple of rapier, disengage and move on..
capital warfare offers this kind of fights still, if you cyno in dreads and carriers you either win the fight or you die.. often you dont escape the fight(bar superaps).. that is however big engagements and brings lags.. small size fights should have the same type of play style but without the lag =)
i dont have the read up on history.. this is eve not cavalry..
ccp says they want to offer small scale engagement but these days you can roam with a gang deep in 0,0 and only find cloaking ratters and speed gangs.. yeay thats fun...
If your also fast, they can't run. And if you're going to say"I shouldn't have to fit for speed if I don't want to", well others shouldn't have to fit for gank and tank and engage in boring slugging matches if they don't want to.
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ellamea
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Posted - 2007.10.18 09:36:00 -
[59]
1st of allppl should look at this frcking noobs set-ups , if u watch their stupid loss mail closer u will see that 3 ships had fitted 2x WCS (huggin,bb,something else). and yet they talk about the nerf of wcs's and basicly whine about how crappy they are. i sugest ppl stop posting on this whine-isuck-weareuseless- thread and do something constructive.As for DMC lose u`r wcs's fit t2 on ships stop whining grow a brain and go back to minerals, now sit.
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Cpt Branko
The Bloody Red
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Posted - 2007.10.18 09:48:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Stakhanov
I get the feeling , from the killboard link alone , that their gang was much more organized than yours. Your ship types seem very random , definitely not a gang meant to counter speedy opponents. Obviously 2 huginns won't be enough to catch 34 nanoships...
Maybe you should have been using some logistics ships - or just remote reppers on most of your fleet. Hell , even just a core of remote repping / rep drones BS with heavy neuts on the domi might have saved your gang.
It's perfectly normal that a disorganized and poorly fitted (seen some ratting fits , and a frightening amount of stasis webifier Is) blob of random ship dies to a dedicated hunting gang. Still , you killed 1/4 of their nanoships , so it's not like there is an invulnerability issue.
This is correct.
Any well-organised T2 ship gang will own a randomly built gang, unless they're crazily out-blobbed. At any rate, the fact you killed some of their nanoships proves they're not invunerable.
Organisation, experience, and well-fitted ships in a thought-out gang beat the ones which don't have those elements, that is hardly news.
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