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Message to CCP - The Speed Situation

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Dark Motoko Caldari Stormlord Battleforce Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.18 00:25:00 - [1] Now before I begin I request that this thread not be flamed or trolled as I'm going to try to make a serious point. In recent months, I've noticed a trend become more and more obvious, as power in pvp slowly turns entirely over to who can field the largest groups of the fastest ships. I have no shame in showing you this killboard report of a battle between DMC defenders and an attacking force of Triumvirate; http://www.eve-dmc.com/killboard/?a=kill_related&kll_id=6224 In it you can clearly see how combatting any of the ships in this Tri fleet would have required at least one stasis webifier on him to allow him to be hit effectively and even if you did, his enertia and remaining speed would often be adequate to take him out of any dictor sphere, or webifier range to where he could warp away happily. I remember CCP's alteration of warp core stabilisers, aimed at stopping pilots from being able to enter combat and then being able to easily leave at will. This is precisely what the game mechanics now allow with these speed setups, and I heartily congratulate those alliances who have succeeded in gathering such large groups of them, but something must change. There are counters, of course. The fast tackler with a 10km webifier. The huginn or rapier with their ranges of up to 30-40km with the right equipment. However the list ends there. Countless times, I've witnessed a speed fit jump into system, and then run back onto the gate in order to escape, and even hastily arranged groups to cover both sides usually fail. With groups able to field this many speed fits, it's easy for them to seek out your interceptors, and easily anihilate them, and it's well known that webbing recons have weak tanks. So your webbing power can be easily destroyed, and then your remaining ships are at the speed fits mercy, as your primary target runs from the battle whenever they wish or get into trouble. If CCP wanted to stop this with WCS, why is this so different? We need one of two things. Either the microwarpdrives or the shiptypes so compatible with them need to be rebalanced, or new counters need to be introduced. Ideas such as a webbing interdiction sphere for example, or for the base range of webbers to be increased would fit well. If not, I predict in months to come we'll start to see more and more larger fleets with nothing but speed tanked ships and eve will all be about how fast you can go. Again, vaga and ishtar pilots please don't flame this thread. Your ships should remain strong/fast by all means, but even you must admit that you primarily use them because there are few counters to them.
Damon Blood Empirius Enigmus Navy Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.18 00:30:00 - [2] Signed
Athalan Wrath	Posted - 2007.10.18 00:30:00 - [3] I totaly agreed
Imperius Blackheart Caldari Trinity Nova KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.18 00:31:00 - [4] Apart from having fast ships of your own with webs on them, I notice you had no precision cruise missiles in your gang as well. T2 > T1. Don't complain, adapt. http://www.myspace.com/cakeisalie
Roscoee	Posted - 2007.10.18 00:39:00 - [5] Originally by: Imperius Blackheart Apart from having fast ships of your own with webs on them, I notice you had no precision cruise missiles in your gang as well. T2 > T1. Don't complain, adapt. Try reading comprehension ftw. The point of the OP is that is EVE is turning into a race of speed
Devian 666 Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.18 00:43:00 - [6] There are even more counters than what are suggested here. Be creative and field real pvp ships not just a ship with the disruptor and some guns/missles. Instead build to kill your enemy. I agree I don't have the features to be a holoreel star. Quote: Astarte Nosferatu > You'd mind if I ask for your asl? SirMolle > eh?
HighSpartan	Posted - 2007.10.18 00:44:00 - [7] Well said Dark!
C601	Posted - 2007.10.18 00:48:00 - [8] Tuff ******* 4 Triumvirate (TTT)
Kar Stoertebecker	Posted - 2007.10.18 00:49:00 - [9] signed or let me say at least give huginn /rapier insta lock bonus :)
Ghost Avatar Empirius Enigmus Navy Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.18 00:50:00 - [10] The fight was great fun while the hostile non nano ships were alive, both sides shooting, killing and dieing. Fun stoped once all there was left to shoot was speed tanks, start lock when they are within 5km, by the time lock completed they were outside scram range, I know eve isn't ment to be fair, but all I am after is decent fights,dosn't matter who has more numbers, but a straight up slug fest with both sides not only hitable but killable is the best fun you can have it eve. You can't get that when u can't engage nano ships, all u can do is run or die, wheres the fun in that.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.18 00:53:00 - [11] Actually the reason we fly nano roaming gangs is because of blobs like yours. Notice how many inties we had. How to beat it? Outbreak did it just fine with huginns+logistics support.
Riebart Norith Gallente Interstellar Business Federation Tartarus Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.18 00:54:00 - [12] I totally agree. Case in point? A post-nerf Domi that can hit 7 km/s. If that's not broken, I don't know what is (That's with no faction stuff, and ***, not even T2 mods in the lows. An HG Snake set, but still no base velocity boost, or MWD velocity boost implants.) The fact that speed-fits can dictate ecounters is, well.....iffy. I understand that's their role, but it's being taken to such an extreme that the imbalance is being made readily apparent: They're just so fast that they're untouchable. Nothing can hit something over 6km/s Warrior Iis don't even move that fast. Fighters are faster than most T2 med drones, but those cap out well under 6km/s... A nice step would be give us super-fast light/med/heavy web drones. Heavies do 2km/s, meds do 4 or 5, and lights do 7.5km/s base (With the usual ratio of effectiveness: 1 Heavy = 2 meds = 4 lights). That's a start. /SuperSigned ---------- [ 2006.10.09 03:03:14 ] (combat) The Forum Whiner strikes My Patience perfectly, wrecking for A Spite Filled Post of Doom*.
Jade190	Posted - 2007.10.18 00:54:00 - [13] Entire post sounds like the school bully going, "Teacher, Billy and his friends started to gang up on me and hit me while running instead of standing there and letting me beat them up one at a time." T.T Seriously, you got beat. So what? You know what beats nano-gangs already. So fricken use it. GO GO GADGET RAPIER GANG!
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.18 00:56:00 - [14] Originally by: Riebart Norith I totally agree. Case in point? A post-nerf Domi that can hit 7 km/s. If that's not broken, I don't know what is (That's with no faction stuff, and ****, not even T2 mods in the lows. An HG Snake set, but still no base velocity boost, or MWD velocity boost implants.) I'd love to see this magical domi that goes 7km/s with no faction stuff and only a snake set.
Pheonix Kanan Caldari Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.10.18 00:58:00 - [15] Looks like Tri wins again. Good job on using your brains guys. Originally by: Curzon Dax shrugs Play the game the way you want to, and respect other peoples' ability to do the same.
Dark Motoko Caldari Stormlord Battleforce Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.18 00:59:00 - [16] Edited by: Dark Motoko on 18/10/2007 01:01:03 Originally by: Gamesguy Actually the reason we fly nano roaming gangs is because of blobs like yours. Notice how many inties we had. How to beat it? Outbreak did it just fine with huginns+logistics support. Actually, you outnumbered us at the beginning of that battle. I came online to witness more people being requested in alliance chat, and they went in as a stream after initial contact. That said, this is NOT about the outcome of that engagement. I'm starting to wish I hadn't mentioned it. It was an EXAMPLE used to demonstrate a point. Enough flaming.
Darth Pheonix	Posted - 2007.10.18 01:01:00 - [17] Originally by: Dark Motoko Actually, you outnumbered us at the beginning of that battle. I came online to witness more people being requested in alliance chat, and they went in as a stream after initial contact. Well, there's the problem right there. Tactical Error. You should not have had guys jumping in one at a time into a hostile gang. That's just a bad move.
Vex Castle	Posted - 2007.10.18 01:01:00 - [18] Signed
Antoinette Civari Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.10.18 01:02:00 - [19] Originally by: Dark Motoko [...] and they went in as a stream after initial contact. There's your problem, your tactics suck.
Tomic The Illuminati. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.18 01:03:00 - [20] reserve
Devian 666 Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.18 01:05:00 - [21] Webbing isn't the only way to kill speed tanked ships. My response to OMG speed dictates counters. Well a heavily tanked cs/bs is a counter to low dps. Eve is a game of sophisticated paper, scissors, rock. If you fight in your home system refit to counter the gang. Gather intel on the gang, etc. Use tactics instead of blob. If speed is the counter to blobbing then speed tanking needs to be buffed to counter blobs. Blobbing is bad for the game. I agree I don't have the features to be a holoreel star. Quote: Astarte Nosferatu > You'd mind if I ask for your asl? SirMolle > eh?
Essque Starlancers Insurgency	Posted - 2007.10.18 01:05:00 - [22] I understand your frustration, nano ships aren't easy to beat, which doesn't mean that they can't be caught or killed. I happen to know all parties involved in the fight shown on your killboard. I fought against and with all of them. I all honesty, the Triumvirate / Phalanx Alliance gang would have won against you anyway, if they would've fielded Battleships instead of nano ships, for instance. With that numbers, they would have won, there is no question about that for me, no question whatsoever. Your killboard would have looked the same, only with different ship types. This is by no means a flame, but a direct observation made by someone who lives in the area and knows the situation. Nano fittings were not the problem in this fight, nor the reason you lost. Yes, I do fly nano ships sometimes, and I lost enough of them to know that they're by no means invincible, but more of a one trick pony. Speed was nerfed to oblivion in this game, one more nerf is by no means necessary.
Riebart Norith Gallente Interstellar Business Federation Tartarus Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.18 01:05:00 - [23] Edited by: Riebart Norith on 18/10/2007 01:05:59 Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Riebart Norith I totally agree. Case in point? A post-nerf Domi that can hit 7 km/s. If that's not broken, I don't know what is (That's with no faction stuff, and ***, not even T2 mods in the lows. An HG Snake set, but still no base velocity boost, or MWD velocity boost implants.) I'd love to see this magical domi that goes 7km/s with no faction stuff and only a snake set. Built one on SiSi the other day. Lots of fun ---------- [ 2006.10.09 03:03:14 ] (combat) The Forum Whiner strikes My Patience perfectly, wrecking for A Spite Filled Post of Doom*.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.18 01:17:00 - [24] Originally by: Riebart Norith Edited by: Riebart Norith on 18/10/2007 01:05:59 Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Riebart Norith I totally agree. Case in point? A post-nerf Domi that can hit 7 km/s. If that's not broken, I don't know what is (That's with no faction stuff, and ****, not even T2 mods in the lows. An HG Snake set, but still no base velocity boost, or MWD velocity boost implants.) I'd love to see this magical domi that goes 7km/s with no faction stuff and only a snake set. Built one on SiSi the other day. Lots of fun You ARE aware the super skills on sisi yesterday bugged a LOT of things right? Things like abaddons with 120% resists to all 4 damage types, and moros with 800x damage mod. You MIGHT wanna actually try this on eft before you go telling everyone how its possible(hint, its not).
LORD KRYAZ	Posted - 2007.10.18 01:17:00 - [25] good point dark but most of these's people just dont get it - so what the hell- nuf said- as for tri mmmmm count the days m8 ,count the days -------------- well be coming for ya soon enough -- think dinosoars youll get the picture
cptblood Exanimo Inc Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.18 01:19:00 - [26] Well it makes a change for the moaning to be about the ship setups rather than lag.There are counter measures to almost everything in EVE learn to adapt.
StellaBlue Minmatar Exanimo Inc Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.18 01:21:00 - [27] Originally by: Dark Motoko but something must change. yes I agree.... something Must change.... and that change would be for people to stop bleeding crying about fast ships. I mean seriosly... what would u like for people to do.. jump thru the gate.. and ummm .. just sit there and be your friggin target. what a joke. So tired of people just like you whining about this or that or nerf this or nerf that.... it's people just like you that truely are making eve a boring.. and lackluster game, due to continual crying and nerfing. maybe for once.. u look at ur fleet setup vs the opposing force.. and say.. hey... we really had the wrong ship types.. or classes to match what the other side brought out to play.... Instead of crying FOUL.. and OMFG.. PLZZZZZ NERF them. you had 2 rapiers... no wonder u got wtf BBQ.
Riebart Norith Gallente Interstellar Business Federation Tartarus Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.18 01:21:00 - [28] Edited by: Riebart Norith on 18/10/2007 01:25:49 Edited by: Riebart Norith on 18/10/2007 01:23:40 Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Riebart Norith Edited by: Riebart Norith on 18/10/2007 01:05:59 Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Riebart Norith Stuff... I'd love to see this magical domi that goes 7km/s with no faction stuff and only a snake set. Built one on SiSi the other day. Lots of fun You ARE aware the super skills on sisi yesterday bugged a LOT of things right? Things like abaddons with 120% resists to all 4 damage types, and moros with 800x damage mod. You MIGHT wanna actually try this on eft before you go telling everyone how its possible(hint, its not). Did it a few weeks back; not yesterday. Try again. Edit: For the record. I'm ok with nanoships in general, but it's the excessive speed that is achievable on them that's a problem. The fact that webber drones are so....meh, I don't like that. Give me light web drones, and I'll be happy. Edit 2: EFT's calculations based on mass reduction for MWDs is grossly inaccurate. Also, try overloading the MWD. When Trinity 2 hits, that will be an actually viable strategy (In-space module repping and heat dispersion!) ---------- [ 2006.10.09 03:03:14 ] (combat) The Forum Whiner strikes My Patience perfectly, wrecking for A Spite Filled Post of Doom.
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.18 01:28:00 - [29] Originally by: Dark Motoko http://www.eve-dmc.com/killboard/?a=kill_related&kll_id=6224 sorry i cant resist but: omg owned¿!
Blind Man Angel Deep Corporation	Posted - 2007.10.18 01:35:00 - [30] speed stuff is kinda boring, I agree

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