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angggggry
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Posted - 2007.10.22 00:38:00 -
[211]
 Originally by: Talon Karrad
WOW, I swear nobody actually reads what we write.
We aren't wondering why we died. We know exactly why we died. We used a hastily put together mixed gang of T1 and some T2 ships to counter a very well organized gang of very fine pvp pilots. Again Hats off to Tri and PA, very well done.
Originally by: Dark Motoko
That said, this is NOT about the outcome of that engagement. I'm starting to wish I hadn't mentioned it. It was an EXAMPLE used to demonstrate a point.
Enough flaming.
We aren't calling for rebalances cause we lost, we just don't want to see everyone jumping on the nano bandwagon. Its hard enough to stop a few nano ships in a gang, but a whole fleet... ouch.
Anyways all the speed fitted jocks out there need to take a chill pill and get off your high horse.
We're not calling for a speed nerf but maybe another counter or so would be nice other than having to spend 3 more months training to get into a specialized ship not in my race.
speeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed is theeeeeeeeeeeeee neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew wiiiiiiiiiiin buuuuuuuuuuuuuuutton
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Dark Motoko
Caldari
Stormlord Battleforce
Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.10.22 11:34:00 -
[212]
Originally by: Frank Monkey
Dark Mobilephone,
"Winning does not tempt that man.
This is how he grows: by being defeated, decisively,
by constantly greater beings."
Rilke, The Man Standing
I evemailed that to you on the 05th July this year.
After you got your ass kicked [again].
Again you have been defeated by superior pilots, with superior skill sets, with superior ships, superior leadership and superior tactics.
All of which are all LEARNED by said pilots in the hotbed that is PvP in EVE. It is a time consuming, labour-intensive and isk expensive process.
Which I can say that all of us from the Tri-side have put in.
Again in your post you quote excuses, i was late to the battle, you are all spies, you are cheating with faster ships etc...
And about being outnumbered, damn man I can't remember fighting in Tri when we have had more bodies than the opposition.
Really you need start learning and growing man or leave the game.
Two words, personal responsibility.
Frank
Three words; You Have Issues
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angggggry
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Posted - 2007.10.22 14:55:00 -
[213]
stooooop whining oooook
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Frank Monkey
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Posted - 2007.10.24 12:40:00 -
[214]
Issues is it?
Man-mobilephone-thing you have no idea.
However at least one of them isn't being a whining-responsibility-ditching-self-deluding-excuse-for-a-pvper-type-thing.
Of which I am heavenly thankful, to all religious denominations of course.
I think thats probably smack talk.
I love you really Mr Mobilephone.
You are the best FC and PvPer in EVE.
I mean that in all seriousness. But please remember I do have issues...
Frank
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Dark Motoko
Caldari
Stormlord Battleforce
Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.10.25 11:48:00 -
[215]
Ok, allow me to correct a serious misunderstanding that's gone throughout this thread.
I did NOT at any point try to say that DMC should have been able to defeat Tri in this engagement. In fact, I heartily congratulate them on a fine victory which they richly deserved.
I'll also agree strongly that a full t2 fleet should anihilate a t1 group.
The reason I referenced the battle report from DMC vs Tri in that engagement was to provide an EXAMPLE to underline my point that alliances ARE starting to field speed-fit groups as large as they did on that day.
I was NOT, repeat, NOT making any point on what should or should not have been the outcome of the fight. I have to marvel at how many people seemed to be trying to grasp at any reason to flame here.
My main point was, that it is very difficult to organise a defensive force to combat a group like this in a short period of time, generally due to how large these groups can be, vs how many huginns/rapiers you're able to field.
Where you can't field the recons, you're left with very flimsy frigate size vessels to handle webbing which can be easily massacred.
Other counters such as precision ammo, good tracking can help, yes, but nothing is particularly effective compared to the webbing recons; they're the only realistic options.
Here's a thought - the rook/falcon possess a tech 1 variant; the blackbird, allowing those with less skills to still utilise the jamming bonuses. Look at the huginn and rapier, and you'll see their t1 counterparts oddly enough have bonuses to target painting, not webbing.
Hell, even t1 cruisers with 5% web range bonuses would satisfy.
Not all alliances have access to huge numbers of high SP minmatar pilots. A weaker t1 variant would be great.
Frankly, I DONT WANT A SPEED NERF. I'd just like an improvement to the counters even as simple as that.
Anyhow, hopefully this redeems this rather badly burned thread.
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JennyCraigSuccessStory
Hi Friend
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Posted - 2007.10.25 13:30:00 -
[216]
you guys just suck, no offense. You were probably spread out as well. If you had stayed together and remote repped each other you would have been fine. n00bs.
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Gaven Blands
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Posted - 2007.10.25 13:47:00 -
[217]
I don't know what happened in your scenario with Tri / Pa / whoever, but when I see speedfit it's only used as one thing, a replacement for WCS.
Way too many people are too quick to replace DPS for the "Nope, don't like it, going home" option, and are just happy to pick up any opportunistic kills rather than going to the effort of deliberately arranging the demise of others, and thereby actually risk losing a ship.
That's fine and everything, it's normal, but speedfit is very different to other means of protecting yourself, as it grants the user an extraordinary chance to not lose. Other mechanisms for increasing your chances tend to increase your chance of winning, not your chance of escaping.
Since this is what WCS did, and "real pvpers" or "hardcore pvpers" or "we don't play WoW pvpers" etc would cry about WCS because it was cowardly, well... duh, how is that different to speed fit?
IF somebody took the trouble to bring a couple more scrams, your WCS did nothing. But with speedfit you have to bring extra SHIPS and very specific ones at that, not simply extra mods to decrease the chance of the coward escaping.
So from a purely logical, and by logical I mean disregarding the speedfit fanboi hysteria, Speedfit is actually more cowardly than WCS ever was, since it the counters to it require a lot more effort than the counters to WCS did.
Speedfit Fanboi hysteria in five.....
four....
three...
two..
one.
--
Any views or opinions expressed are only the ones I want to ram down your throat. |
Gort
Storm Guard Elite
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Posted - 2007.10.25 20:17:00 -
[218]
It's the internet. The internet, I tell you!
Too much information shared with too many people, and entirely too fast.
Get rid of the internet and it will all be fine again.
We can go back to sex, drugs and rock n roll (ok, so you never left....) if it wasn't for the internet.
Gortimus Minimus
--
When in doubt, empty the magazine. |
Mark Foley
Roid Vandals
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.10.25 21:10:00 -
[219]
@ OP, omfg signed. I cbfa to read the rest of the thread 
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Cruel Fox
Singulerity
Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.10.25 21:17:00 -
[220]
Oh yea - sorry - speed is good, marvles.
What the hell has internet and speed informations to do with this.
Just ask your wife how good speed is after u came in less then 60 sec
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Arnold Duncan
A.N.A.R.C.H.I.C.A
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.10.25 22:13:00 -
[221]
I perctly agree with OP. Speed is the new wcs.
Would you like to lose your precious, hard earned, faction fitted ship? NO, then you put wcs.
They nerfed them.
Today only way to avoid being scrambled is exiting points range. How do you do that? Outspeeding the chaser.
Speed tank > all.
Minmatar are built to be speedy, gallente need to be speedy to shoot with blaster thus mwd is always considered, caldari at least have precision missiles (but they have problem too), amarr... well... meh.
------------------------------
Playing minmatar is "like going down a flight of stairs in a office chair firing an Uzi".
Playing amarr is "like going down a flight of stairs in a office chair". |
Pew Pewk
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Posted - 2007.10.25 22:54:00 -
[222]
"we need nano to counter blobs"
"speed gimps our damage output severely"
"there is multiple counters to speed"
vs
"fly shiptype zyx"
"fit xyz expensive mod"
* so basicly, nano lacks damage and has so many counters and is so vulnerable, that it is only good if it's not countered.
* the usual arguments to counter speed it so use specific shiptypes, or modules, which takes alot of time and isk. Time is something we all don't have much of, basicly you mean that everyone should spend x time to get shiptype y? Then why not just give this to all players to balance it so people can chose what to spend their time on instead of being pigeonholed.
* speed is needed to counter blobs. So, if we remove blobs from the game, and as speed is so vulnerable, it won't be used as much as it is today? (I rather think the opposite, that it'd escalate.. easier to solo).
There's flaws with both arguments, and I admit that I frequent flew nanoed ships into hostile 0.0 to get some good roaming pvp - it worked well to get past blobs. Then again, I can't remember any situation at all where my counterparts got me. It's too easy to run away, I can pick my fights (you chose before you engage, so saying it can be countered by fittings etc is pure lies), and thus it makes you "invulnerable".
Yah it's easy to counter, yeah it's easy to shoot speedships down. No it's never a fair fight, just like cloaked ships they can just pick their fight and thus they will very seldom lose.
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kittykatkat
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Posted - 2007.10.25 23:10:00 -
[223]
Learn to use webifiers among ALL your ships in gang.
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Deison
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Posted - 2007.10.25 23:14:00 -
[224]
I didn't bother to read the thread, but has anyone mentioned heavy interdictors yet?
I think this might be a pretty decent solution, and they're already being implemented. I think CCP is aware, at least partially, considering the nerfs regarding speed and the fact that they're adding even more counter-measures toward this in the upcoming patches.
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Mr Bodacious
mUfFiN fAcToRy
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Posted - 2007.10.25 23:29:00 -
[225]
heavy interdictor = vagabond killer..
theres your counter. STFU now. thanks.
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Dupac
Grumpy Old Farts
Gruntfuttocks
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Posted - 2007.10.25 23:44:00 -
[226]
So some bunch of noobs got pwned by people who knew what they were doing.
And we are meant to jump up and scream nerf!!!!
Don't think so....... |
Mister Xerox
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Posted - 2007.10.25 23:58:00 -
[227]
Edited by: Mister Xerox on 26/10/2007 00:00:18
Originally by: Pew Pewk
"there is multiple counters to speed"
With huginn/rapier There are no effective counters to speed beyond about 34km. A few missiles can outrun a moderately speed tanked cruiser, but not a highly-speed tanked cruiser, and none can outrun a speed tanked frigate, and even those that can catch a speeder won't do enough damage to worry them.
Without those two specific ships there are no counters to speed beyond 10km. Nos/Neut have very limited viability vs/ speeders within 25km, esp with Nos nerf. And with upcoming interceptor scram range buffs there will be no counter whatsoever to speed tacklers. No drone or missile will catch them and lowered (a necessity, I admit) cap usage on scrams will mean an inty can tackle and fly like lightning indefinately, 100% untouchable w/o having a very quick to die Minnie recon.
There need to be different webbers for each sizeclass of ship. 10km for frig, 20km for cruiser, 30km for BS, just give them heavy fitting/skill reqs.
WCS were nerfed for a reason, then Nos were nerfed for a reason. Speed mods were nerfed for a reason (and it only really affected nano BS). Time for yet another nerf to bring speed down to reasonable levels.
And the joke about 'speed tank having low DPS' is only partially true. A fleet of them obviates that entirely.
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kittykatkat
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Posted - 2007.10.26 00:10:00 -
[228]
Originally by: ****c
So some bunch of noobs got pwned by people who knew what they were doing.
And we are meant to jump up and scream nerf!!!!
Don't think so.......
Agreed.
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Cruel Fox
Singulerity
Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.10.27 23:19:00 -
[229]
Linkage
Hmm - Outbrake complaining about it - they must have been noobs or something
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Remejiah
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Posted - 2007.10.28 01:00:00 -
[230]
I'm not sure if it's been posted already, but wouldn't Goumindong's proposed web changes help fix the issue of speed tanking?
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Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Hooligans Of War
Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.10.28 02:30:00 -
[231]
Considering how the Huginn was fitted in that fight I'm not surprised you lost. Did he even manage to lock someone before he died? 
Jita fix: The distributed market hub
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