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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Uninvited Guests
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Posted - 2007.10.18 16:32:00 -
[31]
Excuse me but what are people smoking? You can hit up to 29km with javelin rockets in a malediction. Where does this 7k rocket range come from?
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Nomakai Delateriel
Amarr
Delictum 23216
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Posted - 2007.10.18 17:05:00 -
[32]
Yep. Long range rockets means you can take advantage of that extra range.
Besides. Weapons on a tackling inty are mainly for self-defense.
Imagine this, there might be MORE than one target out there for your gang to shoot. With those rockets you're fending off drones and other frigates while having more room to maneuver as you can now get even further away from your primary tackling target.
...and that third slot might not be for a Web, you might want it for a Sensorbooster for Gatecamp duty but also being able to take advantage of the extra disruptor range (I'm not sure if they're boosting the "tackling intys" targeting range).
______________________________________________
-You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary. |
Julius Romanus
Amarr
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.10.18 17:18:00 -
[33]
Explosion Velocity has a falloff, the falloff on javlin rockets is 3000m/s. Also, things worth tackling for a gang are not faster than 750m/s without their MWD on. Contrary to forum belief, most ships do not run the mwd all the time.
Anyway, the only thing I have against this change is losing the DMG bonus will make the diction much less capable in the field of frigate murder. But CCP are pretty clear that they want seperation between the 2 int choices. So be it.
--
All these graphs show is how bad the apocalypse is with different kinds of weapons.
-Dr Jigglez |
Rashmika Sky
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Posted - 2007.10.18 19:03:00 -
[34]
No, no, you're looking at it all wrong guys. ;)
You don't want to use the Disruptor bonus on the Malediction, but the Scrambler bonus - t2 Warp Scrambler has 9k range, add 1.25 range from the bonus and you've got 11.25km.
So you get to stay in rocket range, have 2 points of scram with one slot, and use less cpu and cap than a Disruptor. Just hope to hell your target can't get a web on you... lol
-Rash
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Udyr Vulpayne
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.18 19:11:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Udyr Vulpayne on 18/10/2007 19:11:11
using long range rockets gimps your speed...and seeing how your speed is somewhat vital to surviving in an interceptor thats not something you want to do. also i dont see a requirement on using t2 ammo for the other interceptors.
"your not going to do any damage anyway"
if that was the case why not remove all weapon bonuses from all of the new longrange interceptors then? if your not going to need them anyway?
changing the maled as planned is simply crappy design and a case of being too lazy to get it right.
there are quiet a number of possible solutions:
- turn it back into a laser boat
- dual range bonuses to rockets instead of dmg and armor
- change 5% rocket damage to a bonus wich removes the speed penalty from jav rockets.
or just leave it as it is and have yet another amarrian ship where you need to use unbonused weapons to ge thte most out of it.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Uninvited Guests
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Posted - 2007.10.18 19:11:00 -
[36]
 Originally by: Rashmika Sky
No, no, you're looking at it all wrong guys. ;)
You don't want to use the Disruptor bonus on the Malediction, but the Scrambler bonus - t2 Warp Scrambler has 9k range, add 1.25 range from the bonus and you've got 11.25km.
So you get to stay in rocket range, have 2 points of scram with one slot, and use less cpu and cap than a Disruptor. Just hope to hell your target can't get a web on you... lol
-Rash
Have you actually ever flown an interceptor? Because there is no way in hell youre gonna be able to keep and orbit between 10-11.25 km. You fail miserably by either getting out of scram range or getting into his web range. Either way youll fail to do your job as an interceptor.
Btw the inties are getting bonuses for disruptor AND scrambler.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Uninvited Guests
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Posted - 2007.10.18 19:14:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne
Edited by: Udyr Vulpayne on 18/10/2007 19:11:11
using long range rockets gimps your speed...and seeing how your speed is somewhat vital to surviving in an interceptor thats not something you want to do. also i dont see a requirement on using t2 ammo for the other interceptors.
"your not going to do any damage anyway"
if that was the case why not remove all weapon bonuses from all of the new longrange interceptors then? if your not going to need them anyway?
changing the maled as planned is simply crappy design and a case of being too lazy to get it right.
there are quiet a number of possible solutions:
- turn it back into a laser boat
- dual range bonuses to rockets instead of dmg and armor
- change 5% rocket damage to a bonus wich removes the speed penalty from jav rockets.
or just leave it as it is and have yet another amarrian ship where you need to use unbonused weapons to ge thte most out of it.
If you dont have really low navigation skills the javelin rocket penalty wont hurt you at all. Youll still be going too fast for missiles and turrets to hurt you and you can pop warriorIIs easily with your missiles. Even warrIIs will have trouble catching you with decent nav skills.
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Reto
The Last Resort
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Posted - 2007.10.18 19:51:00 -
[38]
one question is DOES THIS MAKING CEPTORS TOO POWERFUL VS BIGGER SHIPS ? what are the effective counters for 25km 5km/s inties ?
and is ccp also considering the fact that a tackling inty needs more targeting range in order to utilize the up 25 and more disruptor range ?
and ofc whats about the af etc ?
so many qustions and only one change so far...
Originally by: s4mp3r0r
"Hey man, you're mom has a cruise missile".
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Rashmika Sky
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Posted - 2007.10.18 19:51:00 -
[39]
Quote:
Have you actually ever flown an interceptor? Because there is no way in hell youre gonna be able to keep and orbit between 10-11.25 km. You fail miserably by either getting out of scram range or getting into his web range. Either way youll fail to do your job as an interceptor.
Btw the inties are getting bonuses for disruptor AND scrambler.
Have you ever actually heard of sarcasm?
Read my post again:
Quote:
No, no, you're looking at it all wrong guys. ;)
Quote:
Just hope to hell your target can't get a web on you... lol
I thought it was pretty obvious I wasn't being serious...
Next time I'll just write "I'm being sarcastic" in big bold letters at the end of my post, although that is kinda against the nature of sarcasm, isn't it?
Quote:
Btw the inties are getting bonuses for disruptor AND scrambler.
Yes, and that is what I was making fun of - everybody is totally ignoring the bonus to scramblers because it is considered useless to work in that range with a frigate, and given this, it is funny that CCP put this bonus on a frigate.
The only way it could approach being worth considering is if there are some scramblers that give around 11 or 12 km scrambler range before the bonus, a 12 km scrambler would work out to 15 km. But then we're talking faction gear if even that is capable of such ranges, which I haven't checked. And if that gear were available, it'd probably cost more than most players would spend to fit on a cheap ship like an inty.
-Rash
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Uninvited Guests
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Posted - 2007.10.18 19:57:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Rashmika Sky
Quote:
Have you actually ever flown an interceptor? Because there is no way in hell youre gonna be able to keep and orbit between 10-11.25 km. You fail miserably by either getting out of scram range or getting into his web range. Either way youll fail to do your job as an interceptor.
Btw the inties are getting bonuses for disruptor AND scrambler.
Have you ever actually heard of sarcasm?
Read my post again:
Quote:
No, no, you're looking at it all wrong guys. ;)
Quote:
Just hope to hell your target can't get a web on you... lol
I thought it was pretty obvious I wasn't being serious...
Next time I'll just write "I'm being sarcastic" in big bold letters at the end of my post, although that is kinda against the nature of sarcasm, isn't it?
Quote:
Btw the inties are getting bonuses for disruptor AND scrambler.
Yes, and that is what I was making fun of - everybody is totally ignoring the bonus to scramblers because it is considered useless to work in that range with a frigate, and given this, it is funny that CCP put this bonus on a frigate.
The only way it could approach being worth considering is if there are some scramblers that give around 11 or 12 km scrambler range before the bonus, a 12 km scrambler would work out to 15 km. But then we're talking faction gear if even that is capable of such ranges, which I haven't checked. And if that gear were available, it'd probably cost more than most players would spend to fit on a cheap ship like an inty.
-Rash
Its hard to detect sarcasm in the forums, people have said alot crazier things and have meant it for real. :-p
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Rashmika Sky
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Posted - 2007.10.18 20:13:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Rashmika Sky on 18/10/2007 20:13:37
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Rashmika Sky
Quote:
Have you actually ever flown an interceptor? Because there is no way in hell youre gonna be able to keep and orbit between 10-11.25 km. You fail miserably by either getting out of scram range or getting into his web range. Either way youll fail to do your job as an interceptor.
Btw the inties are getting bonuses for disruptor AND scrambler.
Have you ever actually heard of sarcasm?
Read my post again:
Quote:
No, no, you're looking at it all wrong guys. ;)
Quote:
Just hope to hell your target can't get a web on you... lol
I thought it was pretty obvious I wasn't being serious...
Next time I'll just write "I'm being sarcastic" in big bold letters at the end of my post, although that is kinda against the nature of sarcasm, isn't it?
Quote:
Btw the inties are getting bonuses for disruptor AND scrambler.
Yes, and that is what I was making fun of - everybody is totally ignoring the bonus to scramblers because it is considered useless to work in that range with a frigate, and given this, it is funny that CCP put this bonus on a frigate.
The only way it could approach being worth considering is if there are some scramblers that give around 11 or 12 km scrambler range before the bonus, a 12 km scrambler would work out to 15 km. But then we're talking faction gear if even that is capable of such ranges, which I haven't checked. And if that gear were available, it'd probably cost more than most players would spend to fit on a cheap ship like an inty.
-Rash
Its hard to detect sarcasm in the forums, people have said alot crazier things and have meant it for real. :-p
True enough. I have said crazier things and meant them, myself. ;) Probably I should have made my stance a little more clear, considering.
-Rash
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Udyr Vulpayne
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.18 21:12:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
If you dont have really low navigation skills the javelin rocket penalty wont hurt you at all. Youll still be going too fast for missiles and turrets to hurt you and you can pop warriorIIs easily with your missiles. Even warrIIs will have trouble catching you with decent nav skills.
eh...fitting 3x javelin rockets should easily shave about 1000m/s off your topspeed. depending on your setup missiles and drones could very well be able to get to you because of this loss of speed.
obviously you will be able to fit for more speed and still evade them but that also reduces your fitting options as you have to go for higher speeds to reach the same survivability other interceptors can get. i dont really see why the maled should be penalized like that compared ot the other long range tackling inties.
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Julius Romanus
Amarr
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.10.18 21:21:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
If you dont have really low navigation skills the javelin rocket penalty wont hurt you at all. Youll still be going too fast for missiles and turrets to hurt you and you can pop warriorIIs easily with your missiles. Even warrIIs will have trouble catching you with decent nav skills.
eh...fitting 3x javelin rockets should easily shave about 1000m/s off your topspeed. depending on your setup missiles and drones could very well be able to get to you because of this loss of speed.
obviously you will be able to fit for more speed and still evade them but that also reduces your fitting options as you have to go for higher speeds to reach the same survivability other interceptors can get. i dont really see why the maled should be penalized like that compared ot the other long range tackling inties.
Fit standards if you're really worried about it. A pretty reasonable Malediction setup: 2x ODII 1x DC2, 2x Polycarbons, 3x t2 rockets 1x t2 small ac still pulls ~5.7km/s with javs.
Thats plenty fast considering you can actually hit with your weapons. And if you find you need to go faster for some reason, as soon as you start reloading to your faction rockets your speed jumps back up to ~7.3km/s+
--
All these graphs show is how bad the apocalypse is with different kinds of weapons.
-Dr Jigglez |
Wild Rho
Amarr
Endgame.
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Posted - 2007.10.18 21:22:00 -
[44]
My impression is the maledictions rockets are perfect for taking out enemy drones chasing you while you've got a target pinned down tbh. No tracking issues at close range and a nice hard punch to knock them out.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Uninvited Guests
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Posted - 2007.10.18 21:24:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
If you dont have really low navigation skills the javelin rocket penalty wont hurt you at all. Youll still be going too fast for missiles and turrets to hurt you and you can pop warriorIIs easily with your missiles. Even warrIIs will have trouble catching you with decent nav skills.
eh...fitting 3x javelin rockets should easily shave about 1000m/s off your topspeed. depending on your setup missiles and drones could very well be able to get to you because of this loss of speed.
obviously you will be able to fit for more speed and still evade them but that also reduces your fitting options as you have to go for higher speeds to reach the same survivability other interceptors can get. i dont really see why the maled should be penalized like that compared ot the other long range tackling inties.
Because rockets always hit nomatter what speed youre going? Because right now malediction is pretty much an amarr crow?
4500+ with javs in bay with mediocre nav skills is quite enough to make you invincible against drones, missiles and turrets.
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Kerdrak
3B Legio IX
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.18 21:29:00 -
[46]
D O N O T T O U C H T H E C R U S A D E R
________________________________________
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Julius Romanus
Amarr
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.10.18 21:47:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Kerdrak
D O N O T T O U C H T H E C R U S A D E R
Not even to lower the cap use on its disruptor? Idiot.
And to the postever above that, you are correct rockets are wonderful anti drone weapons. We had a noob in a flycatcher during an empire war, his entire job was to lob rockets at drones.
--
All these graphs show is how bad the apocalypse is with different kinds of weapons.
-Dr Jigglez |
Byzan Zwyth
Dark Centuri Inc.
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.10.18 21:57:00 -
[48]
shame the ares is even less of a missile ship now, should give it 3 bays and a let it keep a thermal damage bonus. Wont be as good as a crow but still nice.
Maybe a 10% thermal missile damage per frigate level
5% sig reduction & 5% web/scram range per cepter level
Fun ship.
----------------------
Rank: Tech 1 and a 1/2 cannon fodder
Pointless forum slowing bandwidth hogging signature pic inc? |
Udyr Vulpayne
Amarr
PIE Inc.
|
Posted - 2007.10.19 00:03:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Udyr Vulpayne on 19/10/2007 00:03:15
Originally by: Julius Romanus
Fit standards if you're really worried about it.
great argument...almost as good as "go fit autocannons on your punisher lol"
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Because rockets always hit nomatter what speed youre going? Because right now malediction is pretty much an amarr crow?
and only caldari should be allowed to have the advantages of missiles without having to gimp their speed in return for it?
if your that worried about it jsut change the rocket bonus of the maled to lasers again.
laser capuse and tracking seem pretty much in line with the other long range interceptors.
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Higgous
Gallente
Divine Retribution
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Posted - 2007.10.19 08:01:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne
Edited by: Udyr Vulpayne on 19/10/2007 00:03:15
Originally by: Julius Romanus
Fit standards if you're really worried about it.
great argument...almost as good as "go fit autocannons on your punisher lol"
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Because rockets always hit nomatter what speed youre going? Because right now malediction is pretty much an amarr crow?
and only caldari should be allowed to have the advantages of missiles without having to gimp their speed in return for it?
if your that worried about it jsut change the rocket bonus of the maled to lasers again.
laser capuse and tracking seem pretty much in line with the other long range interceptors.
You seem to be one of only a few people who's actually grasped my original point!
To everyone saying "use missiles not rockets" - Get ccp to give us a bonus to missiles
To everyone saying "leave the crusader alone" - If you're too dumb to see the potential in a crusader with a sustained 28km point, then maybe there is no hope for amarr
To everyone saying "just use it to kill drones" - Are you fricken kidding me?
To everyone saying "use long range rockets" - Yeah sweet, make our slowest ceptor even slower, and give it ammo that is half the speed of a crows?
I can't believe you lot seem to be defending this change?!  
Are Amarr pilots really that used to getting the short end of the stick, they just roll over and take it every time a crappy change like this happens?
'Lister to Red Dwarf....' |
Julius Romanus
Amarr
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.10.19 08:11:00 -
[51]
Try flying the malediction before crying about it. I'm on sisi right now finding i'm not opposed to the change one bit.
--
All these graphs show is how bad the apocalypse is with different kinds of weapons.
-Dr Jigglez |
Perry
Amarr
The X-Trading Company
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2007.10.19 08:12:00 -
[52]
The good thing is, amarr will have two capable close range Interceptors. The question is, do close range ceptors make any sense.
________________
Kali 3.0 Patchnotes: Amarr Oompf!
-Armageddon: +1 Missile Slot
-Omen: Autocannon RoF Bonus
-Apocalypse: 5% Mining Bonus
-Zealot: +10% more golden hull |
Swamp Ziro
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.19 08:14:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Viryana
Originally by: Rodj Blake
The Malediction has three mid slots, and is therefore better suited to tackling than the Crusader.
This is the problem with today's people :V
If Rodj ******* Blake tells you something about an amarr ship, you listen.
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Izo Azlion
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.10.19 08:17:00 -
[54]
Right, your all complaining about the Maledictions role after the patch. Why?
Its the tackling Amarr inty, the Crusader is the Damage one. Maled has the faster warp speed, and it can orbit out to 26km keeping people there (2km buffer or so)
Okay, cant use rockets. So what? Use standard missiles. Your guarenteed for your weapons to hit provided they're not travelling too fast (Unlike turrets which will still miss a stationary target sometimes)
With a Gistii fit, LG Snakes and some basic Rogue implants, you can get 13.6km/s out of gang, which at 26km equates to a 10.8km/s orbit. While doing damage. While tackling outside of large Neut range. With no capacitor recharge modules. At all.
Your all complaining, but it doesnt need changing. Yet again, the populace of EVE havnt realised the Amarrian potential.
Izo Azlion.
---
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Julius Romanus
Amarr
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.10.19 08:22:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Izo Azlion
Right, your all complaining about the Maledictions role after the patch. Why?
Its the tackling Amarr inty, the Crusader is the Damage one. Maled has the faster warp speed, and it can orbit out to 26km keeping people there (2km buffer or so)
Okay, cant use rockets. So what? Use standard missiles. Your guarenteed for your weapons to hit provided they're not travelling too fast (Unlike turrets which will still miss a stationary target sometimes)
With a Gistii fit, LG Snakes and some basic Rogue implants, you can get 13.6km/s out of gang, which at 26km equates to a 10.8km/s orbit. While doing damage. While tackling outside of large Neut range. With no capacitor recharge modules. At all.
Your all complaining, but it doesnt need changing. Yet again, the populace of EVE havnt realised the Amarrian potential.
I knew Ren liked Veto for a reason.
Everything in the above post is correct. And if you're willing to lose a few kms and only do like 8.5 you can keep fitting rockets, and do more dmg with your javs than the standards.
--
All these graphs show is how bad the apocalypse is with different kinds of weapons.
-Dr Jigglez |
Izo Azlion
Veto.
Veto Corp
|
Posted - 2007.10.19 08:29:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Julius Romanus
Originally by: Izo Azlion
Right, your all complaining about the Maledictions role after the patch. Why?
Its the tackling Amarr inty, the Crusader is the Damage one. Maled has the faster warp speed, and it can orbit out to 26km keeping people there (2km buffer or so)
Okay, cant use rockets. So what? Use standard missiles. Your guarenteed for your weapons to hit provided they're not travelling too fast (Unlike turrets which will still miss a stationary target sometimes)
With a Gistii fit, LG Snakes and some basic Rogue implants, you can get 13.6km/s out of gang, which at 26km equates to a 10.8km/s orbit. While doing damage. While tackling outside of large Neut range. With no capacitor recharge modules. At all.
Your all complaining, but it doesnt need changing. Yet again, the populace of EVE havnt realised the Amarrian potential.
I knew Ren liked Veto for a reason.
Everything in the above post is correct. And if you're willing to lose a few kms and only do like 8.5 you can keep fitting rockets, and do more dmg with your javs than the standards.
Even a none-snaked Maled with the same fit will do a considerably faster speed than the Sader, as it doesnt have to be cap stable to include the guns! The Gistii MWD is critical in keeping the CPR's away from it though, as the lesser cap useage is important!
But that doesnt mean a T2 fitted one wont kick as much arse. Effectively, its an awesome solo/tiny gang piracy ransom boat. You cannot be touched until your webbed, and they're often fast enough to bail when the inevitable Rapier flies in.
:)
Izo Azlion.
---
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Higgous
Gallente
Divine Retribution
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Posted - 2007.10.19 09:00:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Izo Azlion
Okay, cant use rockets. So what? Use standard missiles. Your guarenteed for your weapons to hit provided they're not travelling too fast (Unlike turrets which will still miss a stationary target sometimes)
I give up... every idiots response is somethign along these lines:
Instead of them asking why the Mal doesnt get bonuses to things you're actually going to use, they simply reply with "hey - if you spend 12 billion isk on the following modules its a good ship" - well no S%*t sherlock....
Let the thread die, i'll be in space flying my newly buffed Ares laughing my ass off at malediction pilots trying to shoot me from 28k away with rockets.
'Lister to Red Dwarf....' |
Nomakai Delateriel
Amarr
Delictum 23216
|
Posted - 2007.10.19 09:37:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Higgous
I give up... every idiots response is somethign along these lines:
Instead of them asking why the Mal doesnt get bonuses to things you're actually going to use, they simply reply with "hey - if you spend 12 billion isk on the following modules its a good ship" - well no S%*t sherlock....
Let the thread die, i'll be in space flying my newly buffed Ares laughing my ass off at malediction pilots trying to shoot me from 28k away with rockets.
Not even close to 12 billion. Even a non-rigged, non-implant, non-faction mal can get up to 8km/s. Which with javs is "Fast enough". With polys and a gistii MWD that's 9km per second with javelins (still hitting for full damage) and with Low-Grade snakes that's over 13km per second (still with javelins. 16km without. A full set of high grade snakes, Zor's custom navigational link and a 5% Rogue implant might be close to 12 billion, and then we're going 14.7km/s...with javelins).
Overall the problem is that you really can't give sufficient justification why Amarr should be given some kind of special exception in this case. The Malediction is the fastest of the tackling intys and it's given exactly the same treatement as the rest of the intys in this change. It's still the only interceptor with 3 launchers and the one with the lowest weight. It has to give up something for that.
______________________________________________
-You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary. |
Izo Azlion
Veto.
Veto Corp
|
Posted - 2007.10.19 09:43:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Higgous
Originally by: Izo Azlion
Okay, cant use rockets. So what? Use standard missiles. Your guarenteed for your weapons to hit provided they're not travelling too fast (Unlike turrets which will still miss a stationary target sometimes)
I give up... every idiots response is somethign along these lines:
Instead of them asking why the Mal doesnt get bonuses to things you're actually going to use, they simply reply with "hey - if you spend 12 billion isk on the following modules its a good ship" - well no S%*t sherlock....
Let the thread die, i'll be in space flying my newly buffed Ares laughing my ass off at malediction pilots trying to shoot me from 28k away with rockets.
I did infact say that a T2 fitted Maled will still be a great ship. Read my post before you start coming on with the complete ****e that fell out your mouth there. 
Izo Azlion.
---
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Kerdrak
3B Legio IX
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.19 10:42:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Julius Romanus
Originally by: Kerdrak
D O N O T T O U C H T H E C R U S A D E R
Not even to lower the cap use on its disruptor? Idiot.
I'm talking about actual bonuses, not the new role bonus. And do not insult, your lack of reading comprehension is not my fault.
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