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The new Amarr interceptor bonuses are backwards!!

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Higgous Gallente Divine Retribution	Posted - 2007.10.18 09:50:00 - [1] It's a simple enough point really: As i'm sure you all now realise, in Rev 3, one of each races interceptors will get a bonus to its warp scrambling range. Link to the new ceptor stats As you can see the 4 ceptors that get a "5% bonus to warp scrambler and warp disrupter range per level" are the Malediction, Raptor, Ares, and Stiletto. Lemme take a quick look at these... Raptor - Slower of the two caldari ceptors but is granted a nice range bonus on its guns, thus allowing it to shoot at its new scramble range. Stiletto - Similar to the raptor. No range bonus, but gets a nice tracking bonus allowing you to use arties. Ares - Not only is it one of the fastest interceptors around, it also gets a nice tracking bonus to its guns allowing it to use its new scrambling range! Malediction - Just lol. Not only is it the slower of the two amarr ceptors, its also a rocket boat meaning it has a max range of what 7k? Yes i know you can fit missiles.. but then that rocket bonus is a bit useless no? I'm not really sure i see the logic here. Maybe i'm just not thinking outside the box and if so would someone please correct me. For the record, and to try and put out some of the expected flames, i fly all ceptors and the Ares is one of my fav tacklers, i just feel sorry for anyone who only flys amarr ceptors Higgous 'Lister to Red Dwarf....'
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0	Posted - 2007.10.18 09:58:00 - [2] 7km max range is a bit moot indeed with the scram range bonus Paradox V2.0 is recruiting!
twit brent Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.10.18 10:09:00 - [3] Still I would be realy ****ed off if they touched the crusader.
Viryana	Posted - 2007.10.18 10:14:00 - [4] The Crusader should be the one with the scrambler range bonus, not the malediction. Not only the rocket bonus thing but also you'd be likely to web the target in a malediction too (which also negates scramble range bonus), whereas the crusade only scrambles.
twit brent Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.10.18 10:17:00 - [5] Crusader is perfect as it is right now and does not need a change. Its one of the very few amarr ships I will actually take to PVP with.
Viryana	Posted - 2007.10.18 10:23:00 - [6] Originally by: twit brent Crusader is perfect as it is right now and does not need a change. Its one of the very few amarr ships I will actually take to PVP with. I agree I liky the sader as it is too - I'm just saying if you compare the two ships, the crusader is much more suited for the scrambler range bonus than the male****.
Dristra Amarr Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.18 10:24:00 - [7] Originally by: Viryana Originally by: twit brent Crusader is perfect as it is right now and does not need a change. Its one of the very few amarr ships I will actually take to PVP with. I agree I liky the sader as it is too - I'm just saying if you compare the two ships, the crusader is much more suited for the scrambler range bonus than the male****. so you would cry if it got a extra mid? It's great being Amarr isn't it.
Higgous Gallente Divine Retribution	Posted - 2007.10.18 10:28:00 - [8] Originally by: twit brent Crusader is perfect as it is right now and does not need a change. Its one of the very few amarr ships I will actually take to PVP with. Thats as maybe, but a change is happening, so i'd rather it happen to the right ceptor. Even if they removed the 5% damage bonus per frig level, swapped the 7.5% tracking bonus to be frig level based eg: Amarr Frigate Skill Bonus: 10% reduction in Small Energy Turret capacitor use and 7.5% bonus to Small Energy Turret Tracking Speed per level Interceptors Skill Bonus: 5% reduction in Signature Radius and 5% bonus to warp scrambler and warp disrupter range per level That would at least bring it in line with the other "tackling" frigs, even if it did cost a bit of dps. 'Lister to Red Dwarf....'
Zy Nox	Posted - 2007.10.18 10:32:00 - [9] Your in a ceptor anyways, its not like your gonna be topping killmails now is it?
Thraxor Blacksoul	Posted - 2007.10.18 10:34:00 - [10] Well I'd hope some things get changed before Rev 3 goes live but I have to agree the malediction is totally gimped and I'm not sure what they can with that ship given it's bonuses. "Hey look I can scramble ya from long range, but don't worry I won't fire at you, my rockets won't effectively reach that far out" Ummmmmm........... So, fly in close to use a short range jammer with 2pts, and get webbed/podded, but you can shoot your rockets. Or, stay at a distance with a 20k jammer and not be able to fire on your target. Woot! Amarr yet again proves to be the red headed step child of Eve. Change the Malediction bonus to light missles, rockets really suck IMO. Give the jammer bonus to the Crusader with an extra mid slot or up the base cap of the Crusader and change 10% turret cap use to 10% turret range. Hell do anything but whats showing for Rev 3 Amarr Inties so far. And yes before it's mentioned, Javelins. So what? I don't see anyone else having to fit specialty crap just to be able to shoot while scrambling someone from long range. And taking away a bonus on the Malediction to give it a rocket range bonus doesn't fly either. It would need to be something like a 50% bonus and again like Amarr cap bonuses, you shouldn't have to waste a bonus to shoot your weapons.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.18 10:35:00 - [11] The Malediction has three mid slots, and is therefore better suited to tackling than the Crusader. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Viryana	Posted - 2007.10.18 10:43:00 - [12] Originally by: Rodj Blake The Malediction has three mid slots, and is therefore better suited to tackling than the Crusader.
J'Mkarr Soban Amarr Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.18 10:48:00 - [13] Edited by: J''Mkarr Soban on 18/10/2007 10:48:34 The way I see it, you've got two strains of Interceptors: anti-small-ships, and tacklers. It's just been that there were no real distinction between the two before, now there is. The Crusader works wonderfully as the anti-small-ships, it will rip them apart. The Malediction, whilst yes has a shorter range, is one of those tacklers - designed not so much for damage. In fact, it's weapons are probably only there to defend it from the other type of interceptor. EDIT: The armour resistance bonus goes a long way to showing this too - it can tackle for longer. Just my thoughts. ----------------------------- "Oh, we're sorry, you had the 'NakedAmarrChicks' bit flagged in your account somehow." "Wait, why was there even a flag for that to begin with?" "..."
Higgous Gallente Divine Retribution	Posted - 2007.10.18 10:50:00 - [14] Originally by: Rodj Blake The Malediction has three mid slots, and is therefore better suited to tackling than the Crusader. I feel you may be missing my point a little bit. The mal does have 3 meds granted. But if you consider this: Web range = 10Km Tech ii Disrupter range at ceptor 4 = 28.8Km Rocket range = 8Km ish? Its a bit of a mish mash of bonuses don't you feel? (Again i realise you can use javlins, but why on earth would you want to slow down your tackling frig?) 'Lister to Red Dwarf....'
twit brent Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.10.18 11:01:00 - [15] Originally by: Higgous Originally by: twit brent Crusader is perfect as it is right now and does not need a change. Its one of the very few amarr ships I will actually take to PVP with. Thats as maybe, but a change is happening, so i'd rather it happen to the right ceptor. Even if they removed the 5% damage bonus per frig level, swapped the 7.5% tracking bonus to be frig level based eg: Amarr Frigate Skill Bonus: 10% reduction in Small Energy Turret capacitor use and 7.5% bonus to Small Energy Turret Tracking Speed per level Interceptors Skill Bonus: 5% reduction in Signature Radius and 5% bonus to warp scrambler and warp disrupter range per level That would at least bring it in line with the other "tackling" frigs, even if it did cost a bit of dps. Then amarr would have 2 crappy inties.
Higgous Gallente Divine Retribution	Posted - 2007.10.18 11:07:00 - [16] Originally by: twit brent Originally by: Higgous Originally by: twit brent Crusader is perfect as it is right now and does not need a change. Its one of the very few amarr ships I will actually take to PVP with. Thats as maybe, but a change is happening, so i'd rather it happen to the right ceptor. Even if they removed the 5% damage bonus per frig level, swapped the 7.5% tracking bonus to be frig level based eg: Amarr Frigate Skill Bonus: 10% reduction in Small Energy Turret capacitor use and 7.5% bonus to Small Energy Turret Tracking Speed per level Interceptors Skill Bonus: 5% reduction in Signature Radius and 5% bonus to warp scrambler and warp disrupter range per level That would at least bring it in line with the other "tackling" frigs, even if it did cost a bit of dps. Then amarr would have 2 crappy inties. A little justifaction here would be nice? You may well be right but unless you explain why i'm none the wiser! 'Lister to Red Dwarf....'
Straife Hounds Of War Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.10.18 11:13:00 - [17] First off I get a range of 9,400m with rockets on the malediction (some 5's some 4's). Secondly you can always drop in Javelin rockets and pull 27km range while still doing 5.4km/s with my skills. Oh and you could always use it with a domination scrambler to get 13.2km 2pt range at inty lvl 4. Would be a nice stab killer.
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.10.18 11:16:00 - [18] Originally by: Higgous Originally by: twit brent Originally by: Higgous Originally by: twit brent Crusader is perfect as it is right now and does not need a change. Its one of the very few amarr ships I will actually take to PVP with. Thats as maybe, but a change is happening, so i'd rather it happen to the right ceptor. Even if they removed the 5% damage bonus per frig level, swapped the 7.5% tracking bonus to be frig level based eg: Amarr Frigate Skill Bonus: 10% reduction in Small Energy Turret capacitor use and 7.5% bonus to Small Energy Turret Tracking Speed per level Interceptors Skill Bonus: 5% reduction in Signature Radius and 5% bonus to warp scrambler and warp disrupter range per level That would at least bring it in line with the other "tackling" frigs, even if it did cost a bit of dps. Then amarr would have 2 crappy inties. A little justifaction here would be nice? You may well be right but unless you explain why i'm none the wiser! It's pretty obvious: Dedicaced tackler with 2 mids slots = crap. If you use an interdictor with +20-25% tackling range, you're here for tackling, not to add some pathetic dps compared to what the heavy hitters of your gang will dish out. Besides, once your target is tackled, what prevent you from closing to rocket range? It's not as if you were slow , after all... ------------------------------------------ What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs.
Atius Tirawa Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.18 11:17:00 - [19] You actually think you are going to kill anything at 30km in any of the ceptors? The Saider is the best inti out there, don't play with it. . .
Jarne Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2007.10.18 11:24:00 - [20] Scrambler range bonus is for better tackling only, not for extended orbit range. As such it totally makes sense to give that bonus to the inties with higher warp speed and better scan resolution, making them better "interceptors" in the literal meaning. - Success=Achievements/Expectations
Terazuk Amarr Rogen's Heroes Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.10.18 11:27:00 - [21] Originally by: Shadowsword Besides, once your target is tackled, what prevents you from closing to rocket range? It's not as if you were slow , after all... Webbers are designed to slow down fast ships, they have a range of 10km. That is what prevents you from closing to rocket range. Is it really that hard to work out?
Gagarish Amarr VVS Corporition Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.10.18 11:31:00 - [22] Can some1 tell me what is crusader's locking range on SISI? It is 20 km now with no skills, and if it's not changed, 28.8 disruptor range is a joke.
Higgous Gallente Divine Retribution	Posted - 2007.10.18 11:48:00 - [23] Edited by: Higgous on 18/10/2007 11:49:42 Honestly? The whole damn ship needs re-"redesigning" from the ground up. If its role is to be a long range tackler, it needs a bonus to long range weapons in line with the other long range tacklers. Yes there are "excuses" you can throw at it like "you're not doing any dps in a ceptor", but lets face it, after several maledictions have been ripped apart by the ares (which is not only faster than you, but scrambling AND dmging you from 28k away), this "whine" will be the staple diet of amarr pilots for months to come. Lets try and get the ship right from day one shall we? I for one don't want yet another gimped ceptor, changed and untouched for the next 2 years. 'Lister to Red Dwarf....'
Lisento Slaven Amarr BAD ATTITUDES	Posted - 2007.10.18 12:30:00 - [24] So why don't they just change the rocket damage to a velocity or flight time bonus on the Malediction. Why do we keep talking about changing the Crusader? --- Put in space whales!
Higgous Gallente Divine Retribution	Posted - 2007.10.18 12:37:00 - [25] Originally by: Lisento Slaven So why don't they just change the rocket damage to a velocity or flight time bonus on the Malediction. Why do we keep talking about changing the Crusader? Just trying to get a feel for what the community wants from thier ships! It seems alot of people dont want to touch the crusader, whilst most people agree that changing the malediction this way is ilogical. 'Lister to Red Dwarf....'
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.10.18 12:43:00 - [26] Originally by: Terazuk Originally by: Shadowsword Besides, once your target is tackled, what prevents you from closing to rocket range? It's not as if you were slow , after all... Webbers are designed to slow down fast ships, they have a range of 10km. That is what prevents you from closing to rocket range. Is it really that hard to work out? How many ships are faster than a Malediction, exactly? As for the web comment, I fail to see how it can be used to support the OP's statement. A crusader with a scrambler has no web. ------------------------------------------ What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs.
LastTraitorStanding Amarr The Imperial Assassins	Posted - 2007.10.18 13:13:00 - [27] Crusader needs another midslot. End of story. -------------------------------- Semper ubi sub ubi
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.18 13:32:00 - [28] Originally by: LastTraitorStanding Crusader needs another midslot. End of story. And following other intys logic, it should get 3 guns and 50% dmg bonus and 3/3/4 layout and 25 cpu more. And same with claw tbh.
Xequecal	Posted - 2007.10.18 13:39:00 - [29] Originally by: Straife First off I get a range of 9,400m with rockets on the malediction (some 5's some 4's). Secondly you can always drop in Javelin rockets and pull 27km range while still doing 5.4km/s with my skills. Oh and you could always use it with a domination scrambler to get 13.2km 2pt range at inty lvl 4. Would be a nice stab killer. Javelin rockets have an explosion velocity of 500 m/sec. Battleships go faster than this, let alone other interceptors.
Juha85 Beasts of Burden YouWhat	Posted - 2007.10.18 16:11:00 - [30] Edited by: Juha85 on 18/10/2007 16:14:48 Originally by: Xequecal Originally by: Straife First off I get a range of 9,400m with rockets on the malediction (some 5's some 4's). Secondly you can always drop in Javelin rockets and pull 27km range while still doing 5.4km/s with my skills. Oh and you could always use it with a domination scrambler to get 13.2km 2pt range at inty lvl 4. Would be a nice stab killer. Javelin rockets have an explosion velocity of 500 m/sec. Battleships go faster than this, let alone other interceptors. And? Explosion velocity doesnt work like that.. if you are going faster than the explosion velocity you are still taking damage. Actually to make a big difference you need to go alot faster than explosion velocity.. With max skills your jav rockets will have an explosion velocity of 750m/s and if your target is moving at 1500m/s you will do 20% less dmg. Somewhere between 3-4km/s your dmg will be totally negated. ---------------------------------------
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.18 16:32:00 - [31] Excuse me but what are people smoking? You can hit up to 29km with javelin rockets in a malediction. Where does this 7k rocket range come from?
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.10.18 17:05:00 - [32] Yep. Long range rockets means you can take advantage of that extra range. Besides. Weapons on a tackling inty are mainly for self-defense. Imagine this, there might be MORE than one target out there for your gang to shoot. With those rockets you're fending off drones and other frigates while having more room to maneuver as you can now get even further away from your primary tackling target. ...and that third slot might not be for a Web, you might want it for a Sensorbooster for Gatecamp duty but also being able to take advantage of the extra disruptor range (I'm not sure if they're boosting the "tackling intys" targeting range). ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
Julius Romanus Amarr Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2007.10.18 17:18:00 - [33] Explosion Velocity has a falloff, the falloff on javlin rockets is 3000m/s. Also, things worth tackling for a gang are not faster than 750m/s without their MWD on. Contrary to forum belief, most ships do not run the mwd all the time. Anyway, the only thing I have against this change is losing the DMG bonus will make the diction much less capable in the field of frigate murder. But CCP are pretty clear that they want seperation between the 2 int choices. So be it. -- All these graphs show is how bad the apocalypse is with different kinds of weapons. -Dr Jigglez
Rashmika Sky	Posted - 2007.10.18 19:03:00 - [34] No, no, you're looking at it all wrong guys. ;) You don't want to use the Disruptor bonus on the Malediction, but the Scrambler bonus - t2 Warp Scrambler has 9k range, add 1.25 range from the bonus and you've got 11.25km. So you get to stay in rocket range, have 2 points of scram with one slot, and use less cpu and cap than a Disruptor. Just hope to hell your target can't get a web on you... lol -Rash
Udyr Vulpayne Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.18 19:11:00 - [35] Edited by: Udyr Vulpayne on 18/10/2007 19:11:11 using long range rockets gimps your speed...and seeing how your speed is somewhat vital to surviving in an interceptor thats not something you want to do. also i dont see a requirement on using t2 ammo for the other interceptors. "your not going to do any damage anyway" if that was the case why not remove all weapon bonuses from all of the new longrange interceptors then? if your not going to need them anyway? changing the maled as planned is simply crappy design and a case of being too lazy to get it right. there are quiet a number of possible solutions: - turn it back into a laser boat - dual range bonuses to rockets instead of dmg and armor - change 5% rocket damage to a bonus wich removes the speed penalty from jav rockets. or just leave it as it is and have yet another amarrian ship where you need to use unbonused weapons to ge thte most out of it.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.18 19:11:00 - [36] Originally by: Rashmika Sky No, no, you're looking at it all wrong guys. ;) You don't want to use the Disruptor bonus on the Malediction, but the Scrambler bonus - t2 Warp Scrambler has 9k range, add 1.25 range from the bonus and you've got 11.25km. So you get to stay in rocket range, have 2 points of scram with one slot, and use less cpu and cap than a Disruptor. Just hope to hell your target can't get a web on you... lol -Rash Have you actually ever flown an interceptor? Because there is no way in hell youre gonna be able to keep and orbit between 10-11.25 km. You fail miserably by either getting out of scram range or getting into his web range. Either way youll fail to do your job as an interceptor. Btw the inties are getting bonuses for disruptor AND scrambler.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.18 19:14:00 - [37] Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne Edited by: Udyr Vulpayne on 18/10/2007 19:11:11 using long range rockets gimps your speed...and seeing how your speed is somewhat vital to surviving in an interceptor thats not something you want to do. also i dont see a requirement on using t2 ammo for the other interceptors. "your not going to do any damage anyway" if that was the case why not remove all weapon bonuses from all of the new longrange interceptors then? if your not going to need them anyway? changing the maled as planned is simply crappy design and a case of being too lazy to get it right. there are quiet a number of possible solutions: - turn it back into a laser boat - dual range bonuses to rockets instead of dmg and armor - change 5% rocket damage to a bonus wich removes the speed penalty from jav rockets. or just leave it as it is and have yet another amarrian ship where you need to use unbonused weapons to ge thte most out of it. If you dont have really low navigation skills the javelin rocket penalty wont hurt you at all. Youll still be going too fast for missiles and turrets to hurt you and you can pop warriorIIs easily with your missiles. Even warrIIs will have trouble catching you with decent nav skills.
Reto The Last Resort	Posted - 2007.10.18 19:51:00 - [38] one question is DOES THIS MAKING CEPTORS TOO POWERFUL VS BIGGER SHIPS ? what are the effective counters for 25km 5km/s inties ? and is ccp also considering the fact that a tackling inty needs more targeting range in order to utilize the up 25 and more disruptor range ? and ofc whats about the af etc ? so many qustions and only one change so far... Originally by: s4mp3r0r "Hey man, you're mom has a cruise missile".
Rashmika Sky	Posted - 2007.10.18 19:51:00 - [39] Quote: Have you actually ever flown an interceptor? Because there is no way in hell youre gonna be able to keep and orbit between 10-11.25 km. You fail miserably by either getting out of scram range or getting into his web range. Either way youll fail to do your job as an interceptor. Btw the inties are getting bonuses for disruptor AND scrambler. Have you ever actually heard of sarcasm? Read my post again: Quote: No, no, you're looking at it all wrong guys. ;) Quote: Just hope to hell your target can't get a web on you... lol I thought it was pretty obvious I wasn't being serious... Next time I'll just write "I'm being sarcastic" in big bold letters at the end of my post, although that is kinda against the nature of sarcasm, isn't it? Quote: Btw the inties are getting bonuses for disruptor AND scrambler. Yes, and that is what I was making fun of - everybody is totally ignoring the bonus to scramblers because it is considered useless to work in that range with a frigate, and given this, it is funny that CCP put this bonus on a frigate. The only way it could approach being worth considering is if there are some scramblers that give around 11 or 12 km scrambler range before the bonus, a 12 km scrambler would work out to 15 km. But then we're talking faction gear if even that is capable of such ranges, which I haven't checked. And if that gear were available, it'd probably cost more than most players would spend to fit on a cheap ship like an inty. -Rash
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.18 19:57:00 - [40] Originally by: Rashmika Sky Quote: Have you actually ever flown an interceptor? Because there is no way in hell youre gonna be able to keep and orbit between 10-11.25 km. You fail miserably by either getting out of scram range or getting into his web range. Either way youll fail to do your job as an interceptor. Btw the inties are getting bonuses for disruptor AND scrambler. Have you ever actually heard of sarcasm? Read my post again: Quote: No, no, you're looking at it all wrong guys. ;) Quote: Just hope to hell your target can't get a web on you... lol I thought it was pretty obvious I wasn't being serious... Next time I'll just write "I'm being sarcastic" in big bold letters at the end of my post, although that is kinda against the nature of sarcasm, isn't it? Quote: Btw the inties are getting bonuses for disruptor AND scrambler. Yes, and that is what I was making fun of - everybody is totally ignoring the bonus to scramblers because it is considered useless to work in that range with a frigate, and given this, it is funny that CCP put this bonus on a frigate. The only way it could approach being worth considering is if there are some scramblers that give around 11 or 12 km scrambler range before the bonus, a 12 km scrambler would work out to 15 km. But then we're talking faction gear if even that is capable of such ranges, which I haven't checked. And if that gear were available, it'd probably cost more than most players would spend to fit on a cheap ship like an inty. -Rash Its hard to detect sarcasm in the forums, people have said alot crazier things and have meant it for real. :-p
Rashmika Sky	Posted - 2007.10.18 20:13:00 - [41] Edited by: Rashmika Sky on 18/10/2007 20:13:37 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Rashmika Sky Quote: Have you actually ever flown an interceptor? Because there is no way in hell youre gonna be able to keep and orbit between 10-11.25 km. You fail miserably by either getting out of scram range or getting into his web range. Either way youll fail to do your job as an interceptor. Btw the inties are getting bonuses for disruptor AND scrambler. Have you ever actually heard of sarcasm? Read my post again: Quote: No, no, you're looking at it all wrong guys. ;) Quote: Just hope to hell your target can't get a web on you... lol I thought it was pretty obvious I wasn't being serious... Next time I'll just write "I'm being sarcastic" in big bold letters at the end of my post, although that is kinda against the nature of sarcasm, isn't it? Quote: Btw the inties are getting bonuses for disruptor AND scrambler. Yes, and that is what I was making fun of - everybody is totally ignoring the bonus to scramblers because it is considered useless to work in that range with a frigate, and given this, it is funny that CCP put this bonus on a frigate. The only way it could approach being worth considering is if there are some scramblers that give around 11 or 12 km scrambler range before the bonus, a 12 km scrambler would work out to 15 km. But then we're talking faction gear if even that is capable of such ranges, which I haven't checked. And if that gear were available, it'd probably cost more than most players would spend to fit on a cheap ship like an inty. -Rash Its hard to detect sarcasm in the forums, people have said alot crazier things and have meant it for real. :-p True enough. I have said crazier things and meant them, myself. ;) Probably I should have made my stance a little more clear, considering. -Rash
Udyr Vulpayne Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.18 21:12:00 - [42] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer If you dont have really low navigation skills the javelin rocket penalty wont hurt you at all. Youll still be going too fast for missiles and turrets to hurt you and you can pop warriorIIs easily with your missiles. Even warrIIs will have trouble catching you with decent nav skills. eh...fitting 3x javelin rockets should easily shave about 1000m/s off your topspeed. depending on your setup missiles and drones could very well be able to get to you because of this loss of speed. obviously you will be able to fit for more speed and still evade them but that also reduces your fitting options as you have to go for higher speeds to reach the same survivability other interceptors can get. i dont really see why the maled should be penalized like that compared ot the other long range tackling inties.
Julius Romanus Amarr Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2007.10.18 21:21:00 - [43] Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne Originally by: Lyria Skydancer If you dont have really low navigation skills the javelin rocket penalty wont hurt you at all. Youll still be going too fast for missiles and turrets to hurt you and you can pop warriorIIs easily with your missiles. Even warrIIs will have trouble catching you with decent nav skills. eh...fitting 3x javelin rockets should easily shave about 1000m/s off your topspeed. depending on your setup missiles and drones could very well be able to get to you because of this loss of speed. obviously you will be able to fit for more speed and still evade them but that also reduces your fitting options as you have to go for higher speeds to reach the same survivability other interceptors can get. i dont really see why the maled should be penalized like that compared ot the other long range tackling inties. Fit standards if you're really worried about it. A pretty reasonable Malediction setup: 2x ODII 1x DC2, 2x Polycarbons, 3x t2 rockets 1x t2 small ac still pulls ~5.7km/s with javs. Thats plenty fast considering you can actually hit with your weapons. And if you find you need to go faster for some reason, as soon as you start reloading to your faction rockets your speed jumps back up to ~7.3km/s+ -- All these graphs show is how bad the apocalypse is with different kinds of weapons. -Dr Jigglez
Wild Rho Amarr Endgame.	Posted - 2007.10.18 21:22:00 - [44] My impression is the maledictions rockets are perfect for taking out enemy drones chasing you while you've got a target pinned down tbh. No tracking issues at close range and a nice hard punch to knock them out.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.18 21:24:00 - [45] Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne Originally by: Lyria Skydancer If you dont have really low navigation skills the javelin rocket penalty wont hurt you at all. Youll still be going too fast for missiles and turrets to hurt you and you can pop warriorIIs easily with your missiles. Even warrIIs will have trouble catching you with decent nav skills. eh...fitting 3x javelin rockets should easily shave about 1000m/s off your topspeed. depending on your setup missiles and drones could very well be able to get to you because of this loss of speed. obviously you will be able to fit for more speed and still evade them but that also reduces your fitting options as you have to go for higher speeds to reach the same survivability other interceptors can get. i dont really see why the maled should be penalized like that compared ot the other long range tackling inties. Because rockets always hit nomatter what speed youre going? Because right now malediction is pretty much an amarr crow? 4500+ with javs in bay with mediocre nav skills is quite enough to make you invincible against drones, missiles and turrets.
Kerdrak 3B Legio IX Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.18 21:29:00 - [46] D O N O T T O U C H T H E C R U S A D E R ________________________________________
Julius Romanus Amarr Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2007.10.18 21:47:00 - [47] Originally by: Kerdrak D O N O T T O U C H T H E C R U S A D E R Not even to lower the cap use on its disruptor? Idiot. And to the postever above that, you are correct rockets are wonderful anti drone weapons. We had a noob in a flycatcher during an empire war, his entire job was to lob rockets at drones. -- All these graphs show is how bad the apocalypse is with different kinds of weapons. -Dr Jigglez
Byzan Zwyth Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.10.18 21:57:00 - [48] shame the ares is even less of a missile ship now, should give it 3 bays and a let it keep a thermal damage bonus. Wont be as good as a crow but still nice. Maybe a 10% thermal missile damage per frigate level 5% sig reduction & 5% web/scram range per cepter level Fun ship. ---------------------- Rank: Tech 1 and a 1/2 cannon fodder Pointless forum slowing bandwidth hogging signature pic inc?
Udyr Vulpayne Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.19 00:03:00 - [49] Edited by: Udyr Vulpayne on 19/10/2007 00:03:15 Originally by: Julius Romanus Fit standards if you're really worried about it. great argument...almost as good as "go fit autocannons on your punisher lol" Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Because rockets always hit nomatter what speed youre going? Because right now malediction is pretty much an amarr crow? and only caldari should be allowed to have the advantages of missiles without having to gimp their speed in return for it? if your that worried about it jsut change the rocket bonus of the maled to lasers again. laser capuse and tracking seem pretty much in line with the other long range interceptors.
Higgous Gallente Divine Retribution	Posted - 2007.10.19 08:01:00 - [50] Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne Edited by: Udyr Vulpayne on 19/10/2007 00:03:15 Originally by: Julius Romanus Fit standards if you're really worried about it. great argument...almost as good as "go fit autocannons on your punisher lol" Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Because rockets always hit nomatter what speed youre going? Because right now malediction is pretty much an amarr crow? and only caldari should be allowed to have the advantages of missiles without having to gimp their speed in return for it? if your that worried about it jsut change the rocket bonus of the maled to lasers again. laser capuse and tracking seem pretty much in line with the other long range interceptors. You seem to be one of only a few people who's actually grasped my original point! To everyone saying "use missiles not rockets" - Get ccp to give us a bonus to missiles To everyone saying "leave the crusader alone" - If you're too dumb to see the potential in a crusader with a sustained 28km point, then maybe there is no hope for amarr To everyone saying "just use it to kill drones" - Are you fricken kidding me? To everyone saying "use long range rockets" - Yeah sweet, make our slowest ceptor even slower, and give it ammo that is half the speed of a crows? I can't believe you lot seem to be defending this change?! Are Amarr pilots really that used to getting the short end of the stick, they just roll over and take it every time a crappy change like this happens? 'Lister to Red Dwarf....'
Julius Romanus Amarr Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2007.10.19 08:11:00 - [51] Try flying the malediction before crying about it. I'm on sisi right now finding i'm not opposed to the change one bit. -- All these graphs show is how bad the apocalypse is with different kinds of weapons. -Dr Jigglez
Perry Amarr The X-Trading Company Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.10.19 08:12:00 - [52] The good thing is, amarr will have two capable close range Interceptors. The question is, do close range ceptors make any sense. ________________ Kali 3.0 Patchnotes: Amarr Oompf! ~~-Armageddon: +1 Missile Slot~~ -Omen: Autocannon RoF Bonus -Apocalypse: 5% Mining Bonus ~~-Zealot: +10% more golden hull~~
Swamp Ziro GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.19 08:14:00 - [53] Originally by: Viryana Originally by: Rodj Blake The Malediction has three mid slots, and is therefore better suited to tackling than the Crusader. This is the problem with today's people :V If Rodj ******* Blake tells you something about an amarr ship, you listen.
Izo Azlion Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.10.19 08:17:00 - [54] Right, your all complaining about the Maledictions role after the patch. Why? Its the tackling Amarr inty, the Crusader is the Damage one. Maled has the faster warp speed, and it can orbit out to 26km keeping people there (2km buffer or so) Okay, cant use rockets. So what? Use standard missiles. Your guarenteed for your weapons to hit provided they're not travelling too fast (Unlike turrets which will still miss a stationary target sometimes) With a Gistii fit, LG Snakes and some basic Rogue implants, you can get 13.6km/s out of gang, which at 26km equates to a 10.8km/s orbit. While doing damage. While tackling outside of large Neut range. With no capacitor recharge modules. At all. Your all complaining, but it doesnt need changing. Yet again, the populace of EVE havnt realised the Amarrian potential. Izo Azlion. ---
Julius Romanus Amarr Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2007.10.19 08:22:00 - [55] Originally by: Izo Azlion Right, your all complaining about the Maledictions role after the patch. Why? Its the tackling Amarr inty, the Crusader is the Damage one. Maled has the faster warp speed, and it can orbit out to 26km keeping people there (2km buffer or so) Okay, cant use rockets. So what? Use standard missiles. Your guarenteed for your weapons to hit provided they're not travelling too fast (Unlike turrets which will still miss a stationary target sometimes) With a Gistii fit, LG Snakes and some basic Rogue implants, you can get 13.6km/s out of gang, which at 26km equates to a 10.8km/s orbit. While doing damage. While tackling outside of large Neut range. With no capacitor recharge modules. At all. Your all complaining, but it doesnt need changing. Yet again, the populace of EVE havnt realised the Amarrian potential. I knew Ren liked Veto for a reason. Everything in the above post is correct. And if you're willing to lose a few kms and only do like 8.5 you can keep fitting rockets, and do more dmg with your javs than the standards. -- All these graphs show is how bad the apocalypse is with different kinds of weapons. -Dr Jigglez
Izo Azlion Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.10.19 08:29:00 - [56] Originally by: Julius Romanus Originally by: Izo Azlion Right, your all complaining about the Maledictions role after the patch. Why? Its the tackling Amarr inty, the Crusader is the Damage one. Maled has the faster warp speed, and it can orbit out to 26km keeping people there (2km buffer or so) Okay, cant use rockets. So what? Use standard missiles. Your guarenteed for your weapons to hit provided they're not travelling too fast (Unlike turrets which will still miss a stationary target sometimes) With a Gistii fit, LG Snakes and some basic Rogue implants, you can get 13.6km/s out of gang, which at 26km equates to a 10.8km/s orbit. While doing damage. While tackling outside of large Neut range. With no capacitor recharge modules. At all. Your all complaining, but it doesnt need changing. Yet again, the populace of EVE havnt realised the Amarrian potential. I knew Ren liked Veto for a reason. Everything in the above post is correct. And if you're willing to lose a few kms and only do like 8.5 you can keep fitting rockets, and do more dmg with your javs than the standards. Even a none-snaked Maled with the same fit will do a considerably faster speed than the Sader, as it doesnt have to be cap stable to include the guns! The Gistii MWD is critical in keeping the CPR's away from it though, as the lesser cap useage is important! But that doesnt mean a T2 fitted one wont kick as much arse. Effectively, its an awesome solo/tiny gang piracy ransom boat. You cannot be touched until your webbed, and they're often fast enough to bail when the inevitable Rapier flies in. :) Izo Azlion. ---
Higgous Gallente Divine Retribution	Posted - 2007.10.19 09:00:00 - [57] Originally by: Izo Azlion Okay, cant use rockets. So what? Use standard missiles. Your guarenteed for your weapons to hit provided they're not travelling too fast (Unlike turrets which will still miss a stationary target sometimes) I give up... every idiots response is somethign along these lines: Instead of them asking why the Mal doesnt get bonuses to things you're actually going to use, they simply reply with "hey - if you spend 12 billion isk on the following modules its a good ship" - well no S%t sherlock.... Let the thread die, i'll be in space flying my newly buffed Ares* laughing my ass off at malediction pilots trying to shoot me from 28k away with rockets. 'Lister to Red Dwarf....'
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.10.19 09:37:00 - [58] Originally by: Higgous I give up... every idiots response is somethign along these lines: Instead of them asking why the Mal doesnt get bonuses to things you're actually going to use, they simply reply with "hey - if you spend 12 billion isk on the following modules its a good ship" - well no S%t sherlock.... Let the thread die, i'll be in space flying my newly buffed Ares* laughing my ass off at malediction pilots trying to shoot me from 28k away with rockets. Not even close to 12 billion. Even a non-rigged, non-implant, non-faction mal can get up to 8km/s. Which with javs is "Fast enough". With polys and a gistii MWD that's 9km per second with javelins (still hitting for full damage) and with Low-Grade snakes that's over 13km per second (still with javelins. 16km without. A full set of high grade snakes, Zor's custom navigational link and a 5% Rogue implant might be close to 12 billion, and then we're going 14.7km/s...with javelins). Overall the problem is that you really can't give sufficient justification why Amarr should be given some kind of special exception in this case. The Malediction is the fastest of the tackling intys and it's given exactly the same treatement as the rest of the intys in this change. It's still the only interceptor with 3 launchers and the one with the lowest weight. It has to give up something for that. ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
Izo Azlion Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.10.19 09:43:00 - [59] Originally by: Higgous Originally by: Izo Azlion Okay, cant use rockets. So what? Use standard missiles. Your guarenteed for your weapons to hit provided they're not travelling too fast (Unlike turrets which will still miss a stationary target sometimes) I give up... every idiots response is somethign along these lines: Instead of them asking why the Mal doesnt get bonuses to things you're actually going to use, they simply reply with "hey - if you spend 12 billion isk on the following modules its a good ship" - well no S%t sherlock.... Let the thread die, i'll be in space flying my newly buffed Ares* laughing my ass off at malediction pilots trying to shoot me from 28k away with rockets. I did infact say that a T2 fitted Maled will still be a great ship. Read my post before you start coming on with the complete ***e that fell out your mouth there. Izo Azlion.* ---
Kerdrak 3B Legio IX Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.19 10:42:00 - [60] Originally by: Julius Romanus Originally by: Kerdrak D O N O T T O U C H T H E C R U S A D E R Not even to lower the cap use on its disruptor? Idiot. I'm talking about actual bonuses, not the new role bonus. And do not insult, your lack of reading comprehension is not my fault. ________________________________________
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.10.19 10:50:00 - [61] Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel Even a non-rigged, non-implant, non-faction mal can get up to 8km/s. I don't have EFT available right now, but... really? 8km/sec sounds very fast without rigs, implants or faction gear, how do you achieve that?
Udyr Vulpayne Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.19 10:58:00 - [62] Originally by: Alex Harumichi Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel Even a non-rigged, non-implant, non-faction mal can get up to 8km/s. I don't have EFT available right now, but... really? 8km/sec sounds very fast without rigs, implants or faction gear, how do you achieve that? he certainly doesnt do it by fitting javelin rockets.
Udyr Vulpayne Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.19 11:07:00 - [63] Edited by: Udyr Vulpayne on 19/10/2007 11:07:25 Originally by: Izo Azlion Okay, cant use rockets. So what? Use standard missiles. maled with 3x standard launcher II, mwd II and scram has less than 1 grid and about 46 cpu left to fit 1 high, 1 med, 3 lows. according to the devblog about khanid mk2 this is by design to encourrage people to NOT fit standard launchers but use the proper weaponsystem for the ship instead (hint: its the one it gets a bonus to).
Damned Force	Posted - 2007.10.19 11:31:00 - [64] I like the change because if i use javs i can go and orbit on 30km and still scram the enemy, but if u see logically, the Maledict should be a close range inty(what is stupid also, to force an inty to go under webrange.....) and to a short range inty to get scrambler range bonus...? Interesting i would much more like a +5% rocket velocity bonus, that would be not much, but still put the range around 11-12km
Julius Romanus Amarr Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2007.10.19 23:15:00 - [65] Originally by: Kerdrak Originally by: Julius Romanus Originally by: Kerdrak D O N O T T O U C H T H E C R U S A D E R Not even to lower the cap use on its disruptor? Idiot. I'm talking about actual bonuses, not the new role bonus. And do not insult, your lack of reading comprehension is not my fault. They didnt touch any of the crusaders actual bonus. Once again, idiot. -- All these graphs show is how bad the apocalypse is with different kinds of weapons. -Dr Jigglez
Thraxor Blacksoul	Posted - 2007.10.20 00:13:00 - [66] Whats so hard to understand about this? Is any other Inty stuck with a basic 10k range on their turrets? Will any other Inty be forced to use T2 turrets/ammo to shoot at scramble range? Is there any other Inty forced to use T2 ammo with a speed penalty, on a speed based ship? Does any other Inty have the choice of using T2 or not shooting at all? No, well then theres a problem here. 7.5k to 10k range rockets on a ship build for speed is stupid. No range bonuses on a Inty with 10k base range turrets is just plain ********. It's even more illogical when this is the ship you put the scramble range bonus on. Sure theres Javelins, but a work around for terrible ship design isn't any type of a real 'fix'. There is no middle ground here, about 10k range with non T2 or about 28k with T2 ammo that has a speed penalty. I've flown Amarr for years and am used to the up one year down the next two but even with MMO 'balancing' issues found in every game this specific ship design blows, bigtime. I really don't care what they do with it, just make the damn thing a viable option to fly.
Arana Tellen Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.10.20 01:52:00 - [67] The ares can fit 2 125mm rails at the most or one launcher and one turret. The turret cannot hit at the scram range unless you use tech II ammo, this cuts its tracking by 1/4 and so it cant hit the target anyway. I suppose if you care about the pitiful damage you could use a targetting computer in the mid but that kills your cap. It really cant do any damage either TBH. --------------------------------- Core 2 Duo E4300 1.8ghz @ 3ghz, 2GB Gskill DDR2 5400 @ 800mhh 4-4-4-12, Abit fatality mATX F-I90HD @ 334mhz, 8800GTS 320mb 2x250GB 7200.10s Raid 0, Vista 64 Home.
Udyr Vulpayne Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.20 02:47:00 - [68] Originally by: Arana Tellen The ares can fit 2 125mm rails at the most or one launcher and one turret. The turret cannot hit at the scram range unless you use tech II ammo, with just skills and t1 ammo: - 125mm rails: 22km optimal + 6km falloff - 150mm rails: 29km optimal + 7km falloff (propably dont want to use them due to fitting and tracking) - rockets: 10km theoretical optimal but a bit less in practice - stasis webifier: 10km before overheating it.

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