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Razor Jaxx Minmatar Cosmic Odyssey	Posted - 2007.11.06 13:38:00 - [271] I'm starting to believe that in spite of their claims, CCP can't be bothered driving ISK farmers & sellers out of the game - probably because they already represent a fair share of EVE's subscription revenue. I mean, CCP has total access & control of the database, how hard can it be to cross-reference characters with high corp standings and permanent mission activity with characters that take part in dodgy contract deals (i.e. grossly unbalanced item exchange values)? This could be taken care of by an automated process being run every downtime. Not only that, identifying bagmen using the same means and tracing the distribution of ISK to (supposedly) ISK buyers wouldn't be any harder. The database is likely collecting all relevant information to dismantle ISK selling ventures from A to Z. So it has to be an actual, financial-driven decision not to hunt these people down.
Loyal Servant Caldari Viper Intel Squad Pure.	Posted - 2007.11.06 13:53:00 - [272] Edited by: Loyal Servant on 06/11/2007 13:53:50 Originally by: Razor Jaxx I'm starting to believe that in spite of their claims, CCP can't be bothered driving ISK farmers & sellers out of the game - probably because they already represent a fair share of EVE's subscription revenue. It is, definitely! Originally by: Razor Jaxx I mean, CCP has total access & control of the database, how hard can it be to cross-reference characters with high corp standings and permanent mission activity with characters that take part in dodgy contract deals (i.e. grossly unbalanced item exchange values)? This could be taken care of by an automated process being run every downtime. Not only that, identifying bagmen using the same means and tracing the distribution of ISK to (supposedly) ISK buyers wouldn't be any harder. The database is likely collecting all relevant information to dismantle ISK selling ventures from A to Z. So it has to be an actual, financial-driven decision not to hunt these people down. I have been arguing this for a long time. is it a financial, business decision - yes. Until the playerbase rises up and says WE ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE - all bets are off, and isk farming and isk buyers will remain. Until then, we will have CCP trolls like Kieron posting here about their 'rare disclosure of bans' and say they banned one of these isk laundering operations, on the first or second page of this thread... Thing is, the characters are in my address book - and they are still here in eve laundering isk. They will lie in order to continue doing business with isk farmers. Edit: botched quote code.
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2007.11.06 14:28:00 - [273] This is why carebears crying for security is bad for the game. With a few small changes we could police stuff like this ourselves. And what more effective cure could there be? - NPC corpers should be limited to only ships/mods that are trainable while on a trial account or maybe even more limited. Want bigger, better mining or mission ship? Join a PC corp. - Wardecs should not be totally dodgeable. Only X amount of corperation changes per character per week or something similar. - Roll back the Privateers nerf a little bit. 100s of wars at once was indeed rediculous. But the nerf went too far to the other extreme. Want to make billions in highsec? Want to wipe out entire belts in highsec? Want to run missions 23/7? Fine. Do it WITHOUT being practically completely untouchable. But the cries of the paranoid always win out. "You just want unlimited griefing blah blah". Which is completely unfounded. There's highsec player corps that have existed for years that have never been war dec'ed. And if people had to leave their NPC corps to be able to fully use all game content, there would be so many PCs that they would be even less likely to get war dec'ed. Lost in the crowd, so to speak. But it's selfish, paranoid players that must have their NPC security blanket that give these isk selling dorks the loopholes to slip through. These topics always make me a bit disapointed with CCP, and disapointed with my fellow players. ---- WSSH
Pango Ein	Posted - 2007.11.07 05:57:00 - [274] Today's disposable alt Isk Farmer/Bagman/Node is still "Don cat". Selling Electronics, Mechanic, and Drones skill books for 100-500M Isk each. Good news is that the older characters have not been active for 3-6 days. However there are still 40 younger characters making up for the lost output. Additional good news! All the characters have now moved into Datae Corp [DDP]. Datae corp is affiliated with Charisma Q Corp [CHARI]. There is also another smaller set of Isk Farmers using the same method to launder isk. The current bag man for this group is "Lovemaike" For those not paying attention, search for the player "Don cat" and press the Show Contracts button on her Character Info Page. He is auctioning single skill books for 100-400M Isk each and makes 5-10B Isk per day. And all the buyers are repeat buyers. And she is 1 days old, ie. a disposable alt.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2007.11.07 07:54:00 - [275] Originally by: Roy Batty68 .. - Roll back the Privateers nerf a little bit. 100s of wars at once was indeed rediculous. But the nerf went too far to the other extreme. Interesting theory - CCP nerfed the privateers at the behest of ISK farmers and gold sellers whos subs they are dependant on to fuel their ungodly icelandic lifestyles. SKUNK
MorbidPenguin Hard Corp Brotherhood Of Steel	Posted - 2007.11.07 14:04:00 - [276] I've been waging a personal war against the following: BK520 mr gree The Guards sanling and all the other alts buying huge amounts of GTCs in the Character and Time Code bazaar to supply farmers. It's fairly apparent they are farming ISK. I also have proof they are selling ISK. BK520 convoed me on his main, who happens to be in a well-known alliance, and offered to sell me ISK. XXX > i'm BK520 MorbidPenguin > Ah, really? XXX > what do you said ? MorbidPenguin > Your Chinese? MorbidPenguin > you're Chinese, I mean. XXX > yeah XXX > i'm hongkong MorbidPenguin > Do your friends run missions? MorbidPenguin > Do they fly RAvens? XXX > yes. MorbidPenguin > Where does the ISK go? MorbidPenguin > Do you know where I can buy ISK? XXX > friends run missions MorbidPenguin > DO you have a website? XXX > How much do you need ISK XXX > i have XXX > [email protected] <---- tom.com is a Chinese website. Looks a lot like Yahoo. MorbidPenguin > You sell ISK? MorbidPenguin > How much? XXX > 5.0$=100M MorbidPenguin > So all your friends.... they run missions and give you the ISK? MorbidPenguin > THen you sell the ISK? XXX > yes MorbidPenguin > This chat log has been recorded. MorbidPenguin > I don't buy ISK from *******s like you that sell it. MorbidPenguin > I'm sending this to CCP and informing your CEO. MorbidPenguin > You ruin the game by selling ISK. YOu just tried to sell it to me. Edited to take out his name. Like I said, he's in a well_known alliance. Gave me the email and a price,and I immediately sent a petition to CCP. If you see BK520, mr gree, The Guards, or any of the other alts in the Time Code forums trying to buy GTCs for farmers, please help stop them. Join in-game channel Hard-Recruiting to get signed up.
Pango Ein Topps Corp	Posted - 2007.11.07 16:15:00 - [277] Today's disposable alt Isk Farmer/Bagman/Node is "hves". Now selling Navigation, and Drone Navigation skill books for 100-500M Isk each. All the usual suspects have made their skill book purchases resulting in billions in profit for "hves". Don't forget that the isk farmers involved in this operation have all moved into Datae corp however I do not see any wardecs on them yet. For those not paying attention, search for the player "hves" and press the Show Contracts button on her Character Info Page. He is auctioning basic skill books for 100-400M Isk each and makes 5-10B Isk per day. And all the buyers are repeat buyers. And she is 2 days old, ie. a disposable alt.
Darth Nerf	Posted - 2007.11.07 16:17:00 - [278] Disgusting, but it's all supported by CCP... I mean they support CCP... erm, what?? Originally by: Li Flying Everyone, I was only 220 million ISK If your card 220 million to sell my words 3 I ~ Thank you all to the
Eshezo Old Buggers	Posted - 2007.11.07 16:52:00 - [279] OK, I've been doing some homework .... and will continue to do so and update here, lets hope CCP bloddy do something because we are all putting time into it. OK so... lets all get heavy with these guys:- They actually started in December 2006 with a couple of characters Zhu Liya; Vera Nicard; Jin Jisi; Shi Pomfu.... these characters were playing around and this is when it looks like tehy started to get the system together it wasn't until September when they started hitting it hard and on the 14th-18th of September they created alot of characters, most of the 46 members in Datae's Corp were established around then (although in another Corp). So when they got serious they set up suppliers and Buyers, unlike originally when their characters were doing both. So the money trail goes like this:- Character one places multiple orders with multiple characters, when those characters have the isk they buy the contracts consolidating the isk with a small number of characters ready for laundering. The characters at the moment who are consolidating the isk are: Golden Leader; Finacial Department; Don Cat; boarder go; with milk; Head paste; Regiment wealth; Regiment fund; and Hves (there is no point in banning these characters because they are just re-created to consolidate the isk from others), they add a new one every few days. So who supplies the isk ?, a good chunk of it comes from the 46 members in Datae's corp, each member seems to transfer something like 5 billion in a single batch of contracts, who are they..... Has you; sign magnetism; Armed; My Motive; Dry COuntry; Publication; Leap forward; registered; The motive's; Unimpeded; Law net; Regardless; Capital; Bill exchange; Resists; Thinks every; Geography Law; Right Country; Presses buckles; Kilogram stomach; Dilligent me; Passenger Vehicle; Evaluation because; Dilligently you; Bans entire, and I'm getting the other names as we speak. Remeber these names and the corp are active online and the supplies of the actuall isk so KOS should be applied to them. Other characters that supply isk but not in a corp and these characters must be getting their isk to buy from somewhere else, ie they are being fed isk to buy just to confuse the trail because they are relativley new characters and not in a corp and certainly not capable of earning it never the less they show as heavy buyers of the contracts:- stomach anger; for opportunity; thimage; aodman; pressure energy; Shi pomfu; Jack eyes; Relocation; Swims across; Moakes you; Assembly hall; Origin you; scene obtains; Jin Jisi; Poiew; Closed river; Periodc=ical stops; Doublet smoke; Military person, there are more but I don;t have the relationships yet. OK so mark the characters in your book, KOS on sight and lets expose them, it doesn;t matter what they create I'll keep the trail up to date and I;m almost at a stage now where I can see the the origin of the whole trail, I have all the characters on a relationship sheet which shows me all transactional relationships and dates now, if anyone wants specific info, ie dates, corps where they are now, who traded with who then ask me and I'll post it. LET THEM know if they read this they will be stopped if not by CCP by us the eve community. As a last note there is an Alliance link somewhere, think about it there is no way that these guys could make the isk without being in 0.0 for extended period and there is no way they will survive in 0.0 without being Allianced in some way, this starts to go in the direction of why CCP are maybe hesatant in wiping them out because it could involve the distruction of an Alliance, lets face it we have some pretty big alliances these days, all I can say to them is be carefull because it won;t matter how they move now they will be tracked and their time is running out. rgds
Eshezo Old Buggers	Posted - 2007.11.07 16:59:00 - [280] Edited by: Eshezo on 07/11/2007 17:01:24 Edited by: Eshezo on 07/11/2007 17:00:27 Lets also get heavy with them.... MorbidPenguin posted the convo log with tom.com listed well here is the info regarding tom.com:- (THIS IS PUBLIC INFO SO THERE IS NO BREACH OF ANY RULES REGARDING THE PUBLISHING OF IT ON THE FORUM) Domain Name: TOM.COM Registrar: MELBOURNE IT, LTD. D/B/A INTERNET NAMES WORLDWIDE Whois Server: whois.melbourneit.com Referral URL: http://www.melbourneit.com Name Server: BROWN.HUTCHCITY.COM Name Server: EDNS.WYITH.NET Name Server: NS1.TOM.COM Name Server: NS2.TOM.COM Status: clientDeleteProhibited Status: clientTransferProhibited Updated Date: 18-oct-2006 Creation Date: 13-mar-1995 Expiration Date: 08-dec-2014 INfact let me know if everyone would like the info on all isk selling websites ?, happy to post it if so...

Hellspawn01 Amarr Shadow Rebellion	Posted - 2007.11.07 17:19:00 - [281] Thats just insane. This is starting to look like a fulltime job to fight them instead of just disrupting their farming operations. Btw, I¦m interested how that one alliance got out of that story when they were hiding ISK farmers in their space and knew about it. If your conclusions are right then I dont care if any alliance gets kicked out of eve for harbouring ISK farmers. They dont deserve to stay. Ship lovers click here
Eshezo Old Buggers	Posted - 2007.11.07 17:30:00 - [282] If I remeber correctly they were an alliance that was kinda working for BOB protecting an area at the time that BOB couldn't and it was to the credit of BOB that they instigated the removal of them because it was known that they were full of isk farmers but at the end of the day it was the death of an alliance and I agree with you that it should be if they are just harbouring isk farmers.
Hellspawn01 Amarr Shadow Rebellion	Posted - 2007.11.07 17:55:00 - [283] Originally by: Eshezo If I remeber correctly they were an alliance that was kinda working for BOB protecting an area at the time that BOB couldn't and it was to the credit of BOB that they instigated the removal of them because it was known that they were full of isk farmers but at the end of the day it was the death of an alliance and I agree with you that it should be if they are just harbouring isk farmers. I think you are speaking of another incident. The alliance that I think of has been called out here in this forum section by a known ISK farmer hunter. I try to find that post (gotta love forum searches). Ship lovers click here
Aypse D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.07 18:37:00 - [284] The OP, Pango, and others have done an incredible service to the game here with this thread. Honestly, I am disappointed that CCP has just stuck their head in the sand with this one. Originally by: Oveur Eve is primarily a PVP game and hence our focus is on making that experience balanced.
AnnMarie Matari	Posted - 2007.11.07 18:39:00 - [285] Wow first I want to comend all of you actually doing the work... thats alot of info. Next I want to say that of course CCP isnt going to do anything about it, its quite obvious by the fact that they posted a 1 liner to try and appese us(the EVE community) and on page 3 of all places. 7 more pages of hardcore investigative info and no more response. CCP would lose alot of money by banning all those accounts, becuase(puts on his tin foil hat)I think CCP contacted these farmers already in RL and told them if they pay CCP an extra dividend of there profits they wont do anything about it, so not only is CCP getting there GTC sold and sub fees, there also making a little on the side.. which is maybe when they decided to open an office in beijing. If CCP really cared about its Game and not the money, made from its game, then they wouldnt care about the size of the playerbase...infact a slighlty smaller playerbase would result in better game play and less work for them = more time to actually make game improvements. As well you have to remember that CCP isnt run by the origional 7 anymore, they had to expand and hire REAL business men that really only care about 1 thing.. the bottom dollar, a.k.a ISK, a.k.a Icelandic Kronos. this is all a business and the best thing for all of us as citizens to do to make an impression on them is 1. stop paying for all our accounts for no less than 3 months, that would make a huge financial hurt for CCP. 2. Start encouraging another game manufacturer to come out with a game near exactelly like EVE(same skill learning system, Battle style) 3. Everyone wardec in game the corps which are harvesting all these farmers, if there alliance bound then we form our own allaince and camp them in every second we can, I know theres lots of US and Euro Players that could prolly cover most every hour of the day and we can thru locator agents track everyone of these guys. 4. I also think we need to make this real news not just forum posts, whoever is maybe a real journalist can send NY times a comprehensive story about the whole thing, I mean they already did a story about EVEs economy. They( the journalist) can write the same story and send it to EVE news. im sure they wont mind bringing it to light.. We as a community have to remember that Bad news is the most effective news. CCP dosnt want bad PR. they WILL act quickly when it brings a bad light on them...as of right now all the international community have done is praise CCP for making leaps and bounds on the game.. lets be the ones to enlighten them. DOWN WITH ISK FARMERS- IF THATS CCP THEN DOWN WITH THEM TOO...
Dahin Maza Nostra oooh Shiny	Posted - 2007.11.07 18:55:00 - [286] The sad state of affairs is that even though eve is designed to be self-regulated, CCP's love for the hardcore pve group (also known as phat market pie) has made the isk selling schemes possible. Had we been able to wardec and hunt to extinction every single farmer, we'd do it gladly. Hell, it'd probably lead to witch hunts, but that'd give the game more flavor And it's not the pve players that the nubcorps protect, it's their fears. I mean seriously, the worst a small-time corp can have is get wardecced for a week from a random bored pirate corp attempting silly extortion.
Rathyn Mercer	Posted - 2007.11.07 19:04:00 - [287] Datae's corp.... I beleive thats the name of the corp holding the main farmers... I might be wrong but after reading 10 pages of info thats what I got.
Haldor Gret Minmatar	Posted - 2007.11.07 20:23:00 - [288] Kill them all In Rust We Trust Duct Tape Forever
Eshezo Old Buggers	Posted - 2007.11.07 21:19:00 - [289] Edited by: Eshezo on 07/11/2007 21:21:14 Originally by: Rathyn Mercer Datae's corp.... I beleive thats the name of the corp holding the main farmers... I might be wrong but after reading 10 pages of info thats what I got. No kinding, thats what I and others have said in previous, posts anyway , I've done some more work this evening and will be posting tomorrow extra info and some web links to really detailed info to make it easy to get them on our KOS lists and track them, also a secure area to post really relevant info and espeonage away from here because they will simply read this anyway and make faster changes. On the subject of Alliance involvement and my thoughts, I can confirm that there is an Alliance link but I'm not at a point to confirm it yet, however tomorrow I'll be back on the case and my main focus is to confirm the links that I have strong suspisions of further. rgds
Darth Nerf	Posted - 2007.11.08 07:47:00 - [290] Originally by: Eshezo ..also a secure area to post really relevant info and espeonage away from here because they will simply read this anyway and make faster changes. How about a in-game mailing list or chat-channel? I'd participate with a verifiable main there. Originally by: Li Flying Everyone, I was only 220 million ISK If your card 220 million to sell my words 3 I ~ Thank you all to the

Sellerella2	Posted - 2007.11.08 08:11:00 - [291] In case you guys haven't figured it out yet, CCP doesn't care that we've outted these farmers. They are very aware of these accounts. Their single stance (as said in this thread, another thread posted today, and one posted last week) is that players need to stop buying isk. Somehow we need to shame people into no longer buying isk, and these farmers and spammers will go away. The problem is, who here doesn't know of even one player of a mmorpg who buys ingame currency, knows it's against the rules, and doesn't care? What does CCP expect us to do? And why is it the responsibility of non-buyers to police buyers? Heck, we are trying - this thread is proof - and does CCP try to meet us half way and do something about it? Nah. Oh that's right! They said some accounts were banned. Only they weren't...
Per Bastet Amarr B.O.O.M Socius Tutaminis Velox	Posted - 2007.11.08 11:41:00 - [292] Originally by: Siriyana And, I have plans on killing every last one of them that comes through the gate in one hell of a gankfest sometime in the near future. :) Can you Give us warning so we can Join in?
Pango Ein Topps Corp	Posted - 2007.11.09 07:17:00 - [293] "hves" the disposable alt Isk Farmer/Bagman/Node is still selling Navigation, and Drone Navigation skill books for 100-500M Isk each. All the usual suspects are from "datae's corp", a spin off of "charisma q corp", and have made their skill book purchases resulting in billions in profit for "hves". "Don cat" the disposable alt Isk Farmer/Bagman/Node is also still selling Navigation, and Drone Navigation skill books on a smaller scale. The buyers are mostly drop outs from "datae's corp". I guess they don't want to put all their eggs in one basket. All the contracts are being made in Jufvitte (0.5) - Verge Vendor or Todifrauan (0.1) - Metropolis For those not paying attention, search for the player "hves" and press the Show Contracts button on her Character Info Page. He is auctioning basic skill books for 100-400M Isk each and makes 5-10B Isk per day. And all the buyers are repeat buyers. And she is 3 days old, ie. a disposable alt.
Leora Nomen	Posted - 2007.11.09 07:56:00 - [294] Originally by: MorbidPenguin I've been waging a personal war against the following: looks like we aren't going to see BK520 ever again but no worries, he'll make another character and be back making posts requesting GTCs for 100+ other characters in a few days guide to game time codes
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2007.11.09 08:18:00 - [295] Originally by: Hellspawn01 Thats just insane. This is starting to look like a fulltime job to fight them instead of just disrupting their farming operations. Yes, it's a full time job. And CCP has nobody dedicated to doing this task full time, as far as I know. Hate Farmers? Click Here
Adam Weishaupt Minmatar Pyrrhus Sicarii The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.09 08:41:00 - [296] Originally by: voogru Originally by: Hellspawn01 Thats just insane. This is starting to look like a fulltime job to fight them instead of just disrupting their farming operations. Yes, it's a full time job. And CCP has nobody dedicated to doing this task full time, as far as I know. The problem is that labor in China is so undervalued because of the massive labor pool...it doesn't make a lot of economic sense for CCP to devote someone to it on a full-time basis, and they're never going to discourage everyone, because access to a computer in an internet bar is cheap, and so is labor, especially for some unskilled kid who's just screwing around and making some HKD/RMB on the side. I've never done ISD/GM, so I don't know the tools they have available to fight this sort of thing. I'm sure they care, and take out the easier targets, but it would be nice to see some more analysis of the impact. I can't post killboard links, but there was some guy in The Church who killed 300 haulers in one day that were ferrying around one unit of janitors, one exotic dancer, one damage control I, clearly all part of this. I commend him for his truly epic haxploit gatecamp of doom, and encourage more piracy as the answer to ISK farming. We should be grateful we can even have an impact, since we aren't sharded. Also, I thought we were going to be able to scan down non-covert ops cloaked ships eventually? That would make a difference, as well as being a needed feature besides.
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2007.11.09 08:58:00 - [297] Edited by: voogru on 09/11/2007 08:59:41 Originally by: Adam Weishaupt Originally by: voogru Originally by: Hellspawn01 Thats just insane. This is starting to look like a fulltime job to fight them instead of just disrupting their farming operations. Yes, it's a full time job. And CCP has nobody dedicated to doing this task full time, as far as I know. The problem is that labor in China is so undervalued because of the massive labor pool...it doesn't make a lot of economic sense for CCP to devote someone to it on a full-time basis. Well, we can't 100% stop crime in real life, so we might as well not have a police force right? A single person dedicated to this task in CCP would have an astronomical impact on the game, when I dedicated myself to chasing farmers down, I could find just literally hundreds of people who are pretty much tied to ISK selling one way or another. And the only tools I had was: 1. Escrow & Escrow scamming ISK sellers/buyers/farmers trying to launder money. 2. Contracts 3. The logserver application that comes with EVE. 4. A web based utility to convert player character ID's to a clickable link to find out character names. That's it, and I was able to generate very reliable and usually right on evidence against ISK Sellers/Farmers/Buyers. There is no reason why a GM, with access to real tools, can't do the same thing. What takes me 30 minutes to do, takes a GM 2 seconds to do, and I was pretty efficient. What was not efficient was the pathetic responses to the petitions and lack of action on utterly blatant cases of farming & ISK selling. I fully understand that when I petition a group of farmers they wont be banned instantly. The problem is when they are not banned after several months after I discovered them and called them out on it. Some people say, Well if they ban them they come right back, GREAT, that means CCP's income is not affected, and they are still hurting the farmers by making them start all over again. Hate Farmers? Click Here
Omega Man The Geddy Foundation	Posted - 2007.11.09 09:08:00 - [298] Originally by: Adam Weishaupt Originally by: voogru Originally by: Hellspawn01 Thats just insane. This is starting to look like a fulltime job to fight them instead of just disrupting their farming operations. Yes, it's a full time job. And CCP has nobody dedicated to doing this task full time, as far as I know. The problem is that labor in China is so undervalued because of the massive labor pool... Employ some chinese to catch the farmers then. - Happy user of CAOD troll cleaner http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=584345
Sin Meng Gallente Knights Of the Black Sun Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.11.09 09:32:00 - [299] Hey this thread is cool and informative and all but can we knock off the whole "Chinese are to blame" game here? Its just gonna get locked at this rate. ------------------------- EVE is a sandbox with land mines, deal with it.
Aypse D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.09 13:36:00 - [300] Originally by: voogru The problem is when they are not banned after several months after I discovered them and called them out on it. QFT. CCP - This problem has gotten out of hand. You all play the game. YOU KNOW how many farmers are out in 0.0. YOU KNOW how many macros are farming your missions. Its time for a serious and specific dev blog addressing your player's concerns about these matters. You guys have created and continue to create a fantastic game, but in this particular area you are really dropping the ball. Your current methods of dealing with this are insufficient, please make corrections. Originally by: Oveur Eve is primarily a PVP game and hence our focus is on making that experience balanced.



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