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Highly Suspicious Large Scale Criminal Activity

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Jobby Minmatar UNITED STAR SYNDICATE Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.11.09 17:15:00 - [301] :\| Isk laundering 4t ignore
Loyal Servant Caldari Viper Intel Squad Pure.	Posted - 2007.11.09 18:24:00 - [302] I'm with Voogru on this. Farming is so far out of hand at this point that you may as well just shut the thing off. The problem is that there is obviously a market for the isk, which means people are buying it left and right. We need a massive ban stick wielding around here pronto.
Ess Erbe Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.11.09 18:50:00 - [303] Agreed. One month ban for first ISK buying offense, as well as a very stern GM message stating that they will permanently ban them the next time, and they will discover it just like they did now. Weekly popup about the consequences for buying ISK should be displayed to all who log in. Some would say that a permaban should be put in place at the first offense, and I understand their reasoning, but I feel that even ISK buyers should have a shot at redemption.
Anti Protagonist Archron Dusyfe Industries Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.11.09 18:52:00 - [304] Originally by: Ess Erbe Weekly popup about the consequences for buying ISK should be displayed to all who log in. No thanks. Pop-ups sucked on websites, don't need them for the game now. I need a sig....
Loyal Servant Caldari Viper Intel Squad Pure.	Posted - 2007.11.09 22:02:00 - [305] Agreed. popups = bad. Just ban isk buyers.
Pango Ein Topps Corp	Posted - 2007.11.10 06:36:00 - [306] "hves" and "Don cat" formally the the disposable alt Isk Farmer/Bagman/Nodes have upgraded to active accounts using GTC ordered by BK520. It looks like they will be continuing still selling Navigation, and Drone Navigation skill books for 100-500M Isk each without fear of being banned. BK520 was ordering lots of GTC but pressure from other players has forced him into use alts like "The guards". There are so many Isk farmers buying in the GTC forum that it is hard to know who is who. Fortunately their purchases of GTCs increase the ISK value of GTC which in turn reduces the value of the ISK they are selling. Another GTC buyer, "Lord utbh" ordered GTC for the founder of Datae's corp , Datae. The same order included GTC's for "hoho cool" and blueangle whose roles have yet to be determined. For those not paying attention, search in game for the player "hves" or "Don Cat" and press the Show Contracts button on their Character Info Page. They are auctioning basic skill books for 100-400M Isk each and makes 5-10B Isk per day. And all the buyers are repeat buyers.
Darth Nerf	Posted - 2007.11.10 08:28:00 - [307] Originally by: Pango Ein BK520 was ordering lots of GTC but pressure from other players has forced him into use alts like "The guards". There are so many Isk farmers buying in the GTC forum that it is hard to know who is who. "blant wwaass" is another of his aliases, buying GTC's for chars like: 9 Character name: efsin 10 Character name: oilmn 11 Character name: ikjuhg 12 Character name: sonwtwo 13 Character name: it granite 14 Character name: one graphite 15 Character name: english old 16 Character name: meat ancient 17 Character name: u umlaut 18 Character name: three years 19 Character name: rotten potato 20 Character name: rich rcher 22 Character name: bluesister 23 Character name: jack road 24 Character name: furioussister 3 Character name: ikjuhg 4 Character name: sonwtwo 5 Character name: it granite 6 Character name: one graphite 7 Character name: english old 8 Character name: meat ancient 9 Character name: u umlaut 10 Character name: three years 11 Character name: rotten potato 12 Character name: rich rcher
Loyal Servant Caldari Viper Intel Squad Pure.	Posted - 2007.11.10 16:13:00 - [308] Most of us have already established that the 'accounts banned' are still in play and still buying 1 ammo for 500 million isk. I add them to my address book and i add notes to them :) Time consuming, yes.... but I have detailed info that way.
Ess Erbe Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.11.10 18:39:00 - [309] Originally by: Loyal Servant Most of us have already established that the 'accounts banned' are still in play and still buying 1 ammo for 500 million isk. I add them to my address book and i add notes to them :) Time consuming, yes.... but I have detailed info that way. Time consuming but necessary. CCP needs to be reminded of how their customers are unsatisfied with their actions towards the ISK farmers. Suspend buyer accounts!
Curzon Dax Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.10 20:42:00 - [310] On another note, I would be content if CCP would at least give me the tools to ignore the problem. As long as they let ISK sellers spam me, spam trade channels and such, its going to be at the front of my attention and I'm going to demand action. Here's my idea.

Ogdru Jahad Amarr War Dawgs	Posted - 2007.11.10 21:38:00 - [311] all they need to do really is ban the accounts the isk ends up in... when they start spreading out the isk amongst them selves they then do a massive ban. - At last the Gallente can finally lay claim to saying... "my DICtor" is bigger than yours.
Jobby Minmatar UNITED STAR SYNDICATE Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.11.12 17:11:00 - [312] Edited by: Jobby on 12/11/2007 17:11:35 In some convoluted way, is this akin to cra.cking down on drug dealers? Demand is what drives supply, if only knobs couldnt buy isk. Filter 4tl. Isk laundering 4t ignore
Hellspawn01 Amarr Shadow Rebellion	Posted - 2007.11.12 18:25:00 - [313] Originally by: Ogdru Jahad all they need to do really is ban the accounts the isk ends up in... when they start spreading out the isk amongst them selves they then do a massive ban. As if. Buyers just end up in negative wallet, thats it. And it has been proven here that sellers dont get banned. Its always the same. Topics like this get a tiny golden bar but no answer. As I said before: IF this topic were about beer or dev boobs, it would be filled with golden bars more than you can count. And where are they now? Screw them tbh. Ship lovers click here
LathanRiose Devers	Posted - 2007.11.12 18:50:00 - [314] Edited by: LathanRiose Devers on 12/11/2007 18:52:46 You are looking in the wrong direction for a solution to this problem. As long as its possible to buy and sell things, transfer isk, it's going to be possible for isk sellers to operate. There is no way CCP can manually look at every transaction in the game, or even all the slighly odd ones. How many stations have a shuttle being sold for 9mil in them? There are simply far too many transactions to hope to spot and stop even a small number of suspicious ones. It is impossible to remove the mechanics for making isk and transferring isk, the game's economy and existence depends on these. Its also extremely hard to tell 100% if someone is a normal player or involved in isk buying/selling. Plenty of players have weird names, lots of people put up silly contracts/sell orders hoping someone will accidentally buy something for 100 times its value. It is nigh impossible for CCP to distinguish clearly enough between legit and illegal actions / players in the amount of time they have to look at each case. Therefore it is not possible to seriously dent isk selling by manually banning/hurting perpetrators. This is like the police thinking they can stop drug use by locking up drug dealers. No drug addict has ever given up a habit because their dealer has been put in prison, another one fills their place almsot immediately or they simply go somewhere else. Obviously the police need to lock up drug dealers, but has almost no overall effect on the drug trade each time one gets locked up, overall it is simply far to vast to be affected by something so small. CCP is like a police force with 5 men, against a drug trafficing operation with 5000. They cannnot hope to seriously dent the isk selling/RMT trade because there are too many people doing it. All the players out there thinking they are being shining vigilante knights blowing up macro miners or farmers are wasting their time, I doubt they even hurt 5% of of the farming characters out there. The reason is this, isk selling/buying is limited by buyer demand, not by the amount of isk the farmers can make. Isk farming is an extremely scalable operation, if they have an increase in demand of 10%, they will simply make, buy, or reactivate a few more accounts to cope with demand. Yes there is an overhead of time in seting up a decent ratting/mining character, but they probably have dormant accounts or likely a huge a isk surplus to cope with this. My guess is no real money transfers are ever stopped by a lack of isk to sell, there are too many farmers, with too much isk in the bank, and isk "production" is too scalable for demand to higher than supply for a short time. You people need to understand this: RMT in EVE is not limited by the amount isk sellers can make. Stopping them altogether is not possible, hurting them only hurts their profit margins. Because of the economics of it, the only way to stop isk selling/buying it is to kill the MARKET for isk sellers i.e. people buying isk. Without people willing to buy isk for real money, there is no such things as RMT/isk buying. It would evaporate overnight if no one wanted to buy isk for money. CCP needs to be much harsher on people caught buying isk to limit demand, as limiting supply is useless. Perma banning accounts, possibly multiple accounts of a single player, removal of all in game assets and isk, halving skillpoints, and a forum / page naming and shaming all those caught are all ideas that could deter people from buying isk. In summary, stopping isk farming, laundering and transfer is not possible through policing, or game design. Manually hurting/punishing offenders will only dent the operation, because there will never be enough manpower / time to seriously affect it. Deterrence through much harsher punishment for those caught *BUYING* isk is the only way to seriously dent the RMT market in eve. Farmers and sellers will disappear, becase they have no one to sell to.
WarlockX Amarr Free Trade Corp Kinetic Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.12 19:18:00 - [315] Originally by: Hellspawn01 Every buyer buys mostly only once, every seller sells ISK as long as they have the ISK and they have lots of ISK. No sellers -> no buyers. No buyers -> spam still there. While this might seem logical at first it's completly false. Isk buyers have infinate supply, they can always farm more isk. It doesn't matter how much isk they lose. If the game had no faucets this might work since you can dwindle thier supply down till they can no longer sell, but currently if you take all thier money away nothing gets accomplished since they just make 30 new accounts and start farming again. ----------------------------------------------- "I often quote myself. It adds spice to my conversation."
Aypse D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.12 20:31:00 - [316] Sorry Lathan, but I disagree on many of your points. This thread is not looking in the wrong direction. Its simply looking at 1 of the many ways to spot the problem. No one is looking to remove the mechanics to make/transfer isk. What the OP and others are looking for is for CCP to take stronger action against ISK sellers. Not only that, its extremely easy to spot a portion of the culprits in the ISK trading. In particular this thread is focusing on the characters and accounts responsible for acting as middle men between the farmer characters and the distributors. After I read this thread, I went in game and found several other characters that were not mentioned in this thread. CCP certainly has more capability to track down ISK sellers. While you are correct that CCP cannot completely eliminate ISK selling, that is a poor excuse to fail to take action when its clear that EULA violations are occuring. While there is not evidence to convict someone in a court of law, there certainly enough reasonable evidence to warrant action in a MMOG. CCP may not be able to eliminate ISK selling, but they could certainly do more to reduce it. I agree on stronger penalties for ISK purchasers, including temp/perma bans. By attacking buyers AND sellers more aggressively, CCP can reduce this problem down from its current epidemic level. Originally by: Oveur Eve is primarily a PVP game and hence our focus is on making that experience balanced.
Loyal Servant Caldari Viper Intel Squad Pure.	Posted - 2007.11.13 01:10:00 - [317] My Tri pal, you and I agree Yet people challenge how that is 'proof' that guys are isk farmers. Pray tell, how the same account being 1 month old gets 1 billion isk to buy 2 ammo if he is not an isk farmer or just LOVES to burn RL cash on GTCs? I really give up, the fanboys don't.
Kay Brack Gallente Superior Unified Ruling Federation	Posted - 2007.11.13 04:10:00 - [318] Read the entire thread and am quite amazed by the scope of this. Like the fellow from Veto though i think many of you folks are tiptoeing around the GTC issues. Little hard to get wound up over isk farmers when GTC provide the same thing except it has a stamp of approval. Anyhow awesome investigation by the op and the many other contributors following up on the contract data.
Pango Ein Topps Corp	Posted - 2007.11.13 05:05:00 - [319] Today's disposable alt/ISK Farmer/Bagman/Node is "go match". She has take over the task of selling Drone, Mechanic, and Electronics Skill books to members of "datae's corp" for 50-500M ISK each. It seems that hves and "Don cat" have retired, I guess they reached their quota after 6 days. "go match" has formed a new corp called Dhakane [DHAK] and is rapidly adding new members all of which are coming from "datae's corp". I guess they didn't like the multiple wardecs datae's corp has received. For those not paying attention, search in game for the player "go match", "hves" or "Don Cat" and press the Show Contracts button on their Character Info Page. They are auctioning basic skill books for 100-400M Isk each and makes 5-10B Isk per day. And all the buyers are repeat buyers.
Verite Rendition Caldari F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2007.11.13 10:47:00 - [320] Originally by: Pango Ein Today's disposable alt/ISK Farmer/Bagman/Node is "go match". She has take over the task of selling Drone, Mechanic, and Electronics Skill books to members of "datae's corp" for 50-500M ISK each. It seems that hves and "Don cat" have retired, I guess they reached their quota after 6 days. "go match" has formed a new corp called Dhakane [DHAK] and is rapidly adding new members all of which are coming from "datae's corp". I guess they didn't like the multiple wardecs datae's corp has received. For those not paying attention, search in game for the player "go match", "hves" or "Don Cat" and press the Show Contracts button on their Character Info Page. They are auctioning basic skill books for 100-400M Isk each and makes 5-10B Isk per day. And all the buyers are repeat buyers. So now they're not just breaking the ISK selling rule, but the wardec dodiing rule too. How many rules does one have to break to get thrown out of EVE anyhow? ---- FREE Explorer Lead Megalomanic EVE Automated Influence Map

Loyal Servant Caldari Viper Intel Squad Pure.	Posted - 2007.11.13 14:00:00 - [321] No amount of rules will get these guys banned. That much is plainly obvious.
The Chamberlain	Posted - 2007.11.13 14:39:00 - [322] So, where are they? What systems? And in game, can we do anything to stop them? The Chamberlain
Aypse D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.13 15:04:00 - [323] Originally by: Pango Ein It seems that hves and "Don cat" have retired, I guess they reached their quota after 6 days. I will be an optimist and assume that CCP has banned this account. Hopefully CCP is using the leads supplied by the contract system to take action against the farmers/distributors that contributed to Don Cat's Eula violation as well. Score a point(hopefully) for the good guys. Keep up the good work. Originally by: Oveur Eve is primarily a PVP game and hence our focus is on making that experience balanced.
Loyal Servant Caldari Viper Intel Squad Pure.	Posted - 2007.11.13 15:52:00 - [324] Originally by: The Chamberlain So, where are they? What systems? And in game, can we do anything to stop them? The Chamberlain Venal is infested. Stain is infested. Lowsec empire is infested by pirates, but not enough to counter mission running isk farmers oddly enough.
Pango Ein Topps Corp	Posted - 2007.11.13 17:00:00 - [325] The ISK farming operation mentioned many times above has spawned another corp "Ali storehouse" [ALI S] for members of datae's corp to flee to. They are now spread out into at least three corps; datae's corp, Dhakane, and Ali storehouse.
Eshezo Old Buggers	Posted - 2007.11.13 19:29:00 - [326] Bump, because it's important and it needs to be kept going, WE WILL GET THEM AND FINISH THE ISK TRADING.
SEN 5243	Posted - 2007.11.13 20:46:00 - [327] Edited by: SEN 5243 on 13/11/2007 20:49:04 bump ccp pls make it easier for us to kill cloaking ravens npcing in 0.0 and do something about the noobcorp haulers in lowsec
Zavernus Hamarabi Caldari High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.13 21:27:00 - [328] I think perhaps a flagging system should be implemented. If enough players flag a player or a corp for isk farming, it does nothing but flags that player or corp to ccp for them to take a look at that particular entity. Flagging them would do nothing but create an eyebrow raiser for ccp. CCP, a request: Remove rigs Thank you, Zav
Mjnari Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2007.11.14 06:35:00 - [329] Edited by: Mjnari on 14/11/2007 06:35:34 Originally by: SEN 5243 ... and do something about the noobcorp haulers in lowsec That'd be easy - just remove the sec hit for attacking noob corp players in lowsec. Honestly, a) create your own player corp OR b) join a player corp. It's not like there's any legitimate reason for someone to stay in a noob corp for an extended period of time. (And so what if scan/cargo alts can get whacked without penalty -- use a main/indy-corp alt) ------------------------ Minmatar, It should be like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair shooting an Uzi.
MorbidPenguin Hard Corp Brotherhood Of Steel	Posted - 2007.11.14 07:43:00 - [330] One small thing everyone can do is add Voogru's signature to their signature. Pretty soon, it'll be all over the forums and CCP is going to have to take action - they can't avoid the truth.



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