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Ilya Murametz Caldari Cruororis Consors Conlegium Ivy League	Posted - 2007.10.21 18:41:00 - [1] http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=618303 Posting a link here just incase some eve'er don't check test server forum... and I think as many people as possible have to see this... "idea" lol
Ishmael Hansen No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2007.10.21 18:46:00 - [2] Go complain to the noobs that camp low sec in carriers, mom's and titans, cos killing cruisers and stuff with 3 capitals must surely be fun.
Ilya Murametz Caldari Cruororis Consors Conlegium Ivy League	Posted - 2007.10.21 18:50:00 - [3] Originally by: Ishmael Hansen Go complain to the noobs that camp low sec in carriers, mom's and titans, cos killing cruisers and stuff with 3 capitals must surely be fun. What in the holly mother of eve does that have to do with this .....lol bitter much? P.S. my personal opinion, capital ship low sec camping, specially in clocked moms = the ghey, but this has nothing to do with this, a mom or carrier can still do that after this nerf, say hello to smartbombs.
Locke Ateid Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.10.21 18:50:00 - [4] Originally by: Ilya Murametz Linked Posting a link here just incase some eve'er don't check test server forum... and I think as many people as possible have to see this... "idea" lol Link-ified
Ilya Murametz Caldari Cruororis Consors Conlegium Ivy League	Posted - 2007.10.21 18:55:00 - [5] Originally by: Locke Ateid Originally by: Ilya Murametz Linked Posting a link here just incase some eve'er don't check test server forum... and I think as many people as possible have to see this... "idea" lol Link-ified You the greatest Guess i should of done the same But its 2pm, i just woke up and my head really hurts for some reason
Locke Ateid Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.10.21 19:05:00 - [6] Originally by: Ilya Murametz Originally by: Locke Ateid Originally by: Ilya Murametz Linked Posting a link here just incase some eve'er don't check test server forum... and I think as many people as possible have to see this... "idea" lol Link-ified You the greatest Guess i should of done the same Fear not fleshy mortal, you are bound to make mistakes, you are only human after all. Originally by: Ilya Murametz But its 2pm, i just woke up and my head really hurts for some reason You appear to be malfunctioning, carbon life-form. Please be advised to visit your nearest homosapien mechanic.
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This Derek Knows Us	Posted - 2007.10.21 20:51:00 - [7] Originally by: Ishmael Hansen Go complain to the noobs that camp low sec in carriers, mom's and titans, cos killing cruisers and stuff with 3 capitals must surely be fun. err, 'noobs' don't fly expensive ships that take a year or more to train for... begone troll anyways, the carrier blog is interesting to read... good thing I stopped training for carriers ;) __________________________________________________ FOLD. The Ultimate PVP. It really is Us vs. Them. clicky
Albatron St	Posted - 2007.10.21 20:52:00 - [8] omg .....thats it stop whit the nerfs fix the deam bugs and leave ships as they are ...M.....s if they do this im selling my carrier account and quting eve i had it whit freaking nerfs FIX THE BLOODY bugs - LAG and stop nerfing stuff looks like ccp realy wonts us to leave eve ...
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This Derek Knows Us	Posted - 2007.10.21 21:02:00 - [9] Originally by: Albatron St omg .....thats it stop whit the nerfs fix the deam bugs and leave ships as they are ...M.....s if they do this im selling my carrier account and quting eve i had it whit freaking nerfs FIX THE BLOODY bugs - LAG and stop nerfing stuff looks like ccp realy wonts us to leave eve ... can I have your stuff? __________________________________________________ FOLD. The Ultimate PVP. It really is Us vs. Them. clicky
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy	Posted - 2007.10.21 21:06:00 - [10] Seems fair - bigger and more expensive should NOT mean better in all situations... Carriers are meant as support and not as gankmonsters... - I'm a nice guy!! MOA is NOT UGLY!!! It's A FREAK SHOW!!!!
The Fate Caldari Hammerfall Industries	Posted - 2007.10.21 21:08:00 - [11] Tell me how can they support if they are sensor damped/jammed????
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.10.21 21:23:00 - [12] Originally by: The Fate Tell me how can they support if they are sensor damped/jammed???? They have a sensor strength of 50+ (over twice the sensor strength of battleships) so they're very resistant to jamming. ...and Damps are supposedly getting nerfed. IMHO this is a good move as it will reduce the power of the capital blob and the people flying around solo in capitals. It won't in any way reduce the power of people using assigned fighters except that it might take a few more seconds to set it up. ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
Albatron St	Posted - 2007.10.21 21:24:00 - [13] can I have your stuff? what part off selling didnt you get ?
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.10.21 21:37:00 - [14] Edited by: Nomakai Delateriel on 21/10/2007 21:37:56 Originally by: Albatron St Quote: can I have your stuff? what part off selling didnt you get ? "Can I have your stuff" is the traditional response to people going "ZOMG u nerfed my [Insert item, class or character of your choice]. I'm quitting [insert MMO of your choice]!!!111" ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
DarkFollower Amarr Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.21 21:38:00 - [15] Edited by: DarkFollower on 21/10/2007 21:39:58 Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel Originally by: The Fate Tell me how can they support if they are sensor damped/jammed???? They have a sensor strength of 50+ (over twice the sensor strength of battleships) so they're very resistant to jamming. ...and Damps are supposedly getting nerfed. IMHO this is a good move as it will reduce the power of the capital blob and the people flying around solo in capitals. It won't in any way reduce the power of people using assigned fighters except that it might take a few more seconds to set it up. Can u tell me where i can find these solo carriers motherships that u speak of? As it is now , a solo carrier/mom that goes solo will die horribly even to a small gang of 10 people , maybe more for a mom even if they have a high sensor strenght it dosent mean that they cant be jammed , and even with the damp nerf they will still be rendered ussels by 1 or 2 good arazu/lachesis If they would want to remove the capital blob then they should look at the way poses and soverinity works , removing the effects of a problem wont solve the problem as good as if removing the problem alltogether Cap recharges on PvP ships Suxxor monkey ballzorz!!
Albatron St	Posted - 2007.10.21 21:38:00 - [16] and this wont fix the lag from fighter/drones at all it will just make it easy to gank ^solo carriers^ that is to eaasy as it is
NoNah Unseen University	Posted - 2007.10.21 21:42:00 - [17] Indeed, it's good that they acknowledge the problem, but they're doing it all wrong. The problem with supercapitals is that they run vitually no risk in lowsec. Titans is not an issue as they can't do much damage unless they're fielding an obscene fitting - and more importantly, they're to expensive to generally be found on a lowsec gate, when a mothership does the job better. This won't put an end to lowsec camps. This won't even change lowsec camps. The number of carriers i've found solocamping a gate, and surviving, is... ignorable. Dreads are not affected by their solution, and are not very common either. Motherships will still have their power due to smartbombs, they will still be able to eat anything that passes through their gate. And if they were serious about catching everything, they had an intie or some other kind of tackler with a sensor resolution actually able to lock things. This leaves carriers, that never was that much of a problem in the first place, and when they were found solo, they were killed solo. They couldn't stay smartbombing a gate very well, simply because of that fact. They can be killed - in lowsec. So what does this change actually do? Well, it makes carrierpilot do some more micromanagement of their drones, when used right. And it makes them just a tad easier to take down, when they've made a mistake. Only reason I dislike the change is that I see it as pointless. It doesn't solve anything, and it gives drone users even more control issues with drones. It does help those who are organized i tiny tiny bit, then again, thats more or less just a way of forcing even more players to use third party software to compete in EVE... Postcount: 973446 [02:40:22] <elmickers> if you're caldari in a fleet fight, bring a corp
Albatron St	Posted - 2007.10.21 21:51:00 - [18] Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel Edited by: Nomakai Delateriel on 21/10/2007 21:37:56 Originally by: Albatron St Quote: can I have your stuff? what part off selling didnt you get ? "Can I have your stuff" is the traditional response to people going "ZOMG u nerfed my [Insert item, class or character of your choice]. I'm quitting [insert MMO of your choice]!!!111" heh your funy, wish the world woud work like eve. I woud love to see your car get nerfed or something you like. Anyway its lame nerf not needed and it wont fix anything and you know it And if ccp wonts to keep all the alts in game they wil leave carriers as they are .... the carrier-pos nerf was needed this one isnt ....
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.10.21 21:58:00 - [19] Originally by: Albatron St heh your funy, wish the world woud work like eve. I woud love to see your car get nerfed or something you like. Anyway its lame nerf not needed and it wont fix anything and you know it And if ccp wonts to keep all the alts in game they wil leave carriers as they are .... the carrier-pos nerf was needed this one isnt .... In some ways real life does work like EVE, except that you can't switch characters and quitting is not a good idea. The thing is in real life, when the rules change, people adapt and overcome. "Oh sorry, regulation [insert arbitrary number here] changed and we can't run the logistical division like we used to? Oh **** lets just commit suicide instead of restructuring it" is not the way things work in real world business. ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
Albatron St	Posted - 2007.10.21 22:22:00 - [20] Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel Originally by: Albatron St heh your funy, wish the world woud work like eve. I woud love to see your car get nerfed or something you like. Anyway its lame nerf not needed and it wont fix anything and you know it And if ccp wonts to keep all the alts in game they wil leave carriers as they are .... the carrier-pos nerf was needed this one isnt .... In some ways real life does work like EVE, except that you can't switch characters and quitting is not a good idea. The thing is in real life, when the rules change, people adapt and overcome. "Oh sorry, regulation [insert arbitrary number here] changed and we can't run the logistical division like we used to? Oh **** lets just commit suicide instead of restructuring it" is not the way things work in real world business. anyway ill leave it at that, so we dont get off topic you can ignore me if you wont. im not paying you im paying ccp for now.. maybe eve woud have more players if they woudnt nerf stuff who knows, mayeb worth a try ? afer all you like money dont you ccp ?
Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services	Posted - 2007.10.21 23:19:00 - [21] It's a good change. Carriers were never supposed to be the solopwnmobiles they became.
Ishmael Hansen No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2007.10.21 23:20:00 - [22] Originally by: Mr Friendly Originally by: Ishmael Hansen Go complain to the noobs that camp low sec in carriers, mom's and titans, cos killing cruisers and stuff with 3 capitals must surely be fun. err, 'noobs' don't fly expensive ships that take a year or more to train for... begone troll anyways, the carrier blog is interesting to read... good thing I stopped training for carriers ;) Well some do tho I should have called them griefers and not noobs, I have never seen a low sec gatecamp with capitals, but I think it's kinda lame.
Shereza	Posted - 2007.10.22 00:40:00 - [23] Quote: err, 'noobs' don't fly expensive ships that take a year or more to train for... They do if they buy a bunch of GTCs and convert them into isk for a carrier and a carrier pilot. At any rate, I'm not a carrier pilot so this doesn't personally affect me. However, based on years of experience with pretty much similar mentalities and reactions towards similar game changes I can say this. #1 This stuff has happened in the past. #2 This stuff is happening right now. #3 It will happen happen again in the future. #4 Life will go on. #5 People will continue using whatever gets changed. #6 People will continue to whine about other things getting changed.
Surius	Posted - 2007.10.22 00:59:00 - [24] I personally hate this idea... It looks like yet another attempt to reduce lag due to "drone" overpopulation as well as a rather nasty nurf to solo carrier piolots. As one who was aiming at a carrier (alt account) and would have no problems aquireing the funds to fly one I will have to say I'd give up on this if the change goes through. However I have no idea what I'll do with the alt I had training for one...probably cancel the account. Too bad too, learning skills were done as well as quite a few prereq's...
Ceramik Black Avatar	Posted - 2007.10.22 01:05:00 - [25] This is how Star Wars Galaxies began to turn into a piece of crap. Everyone was complaining about the equivalent of the carrier/titan of the game(Jedi) being too powerful. The nerfbat started swinging and they didn't stop swinging it until they had killed the game. This is a slippery slope if CCP chooses to take it. This Space for Rent.
bldyannoyed Un4seen Development	Posted - 2007.10.22 01:13:00 - [26] Look at the numbers after this. On its own a carrier can out out a staggering 500 DPS using 5 max skilled fighters. Assuming its targetting a BS. Anything smaller and fighters wont track and it'll will have to use 5 heavies. For a massive 300 DPS. So basically what CCP plan to do is render these ships utterly defenseless. You will now ONLY be able to use them in blobs, because taking them into a fight where you have only a small supoprt gang will be suicidal. If the support ships die you may as well self destruct because you're probably not even going to be able to fight off a single HAC. ******* garbage.
KD.Fluffy The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.10.22 01:21:00 - [27] yeah this nerf irratates me. I was gonna train for carriers, but I think im gonna go for a moros instead...... Boost The Eagle!
Tar Manis	Posted - 2007.10.22 01:31:00 - [28] Originally by: bldyannoyed Look at the numbers after this. On its own a carrier can out out a staggering 500 DPS using 5 max skilled fighters. Assuming its targetting a BS. Anything smaller and fighters wont track and it'll will have to use 5 heavies. For a massive 300 DPS. So basically what CCP plan to do is render these ships utterly defenseless. You will now ONLY be able to use them in blobs, because taking them into a fight where you have only a small supoprt gang will be suicidal. If the support ships die you may as well self destruct because you're probably not even going to be able to fight off a single HAC. ******* garbage. People won't even use them anymore because Dominixes do it better. 500dps can easily be achieved.
J Valkor Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.10.22 01:37:00 - [29] Edited by: J Valkor on 22/10/2007 01:38:50 Originally by: Tar Manis Originally by: bldyannoyed Look at the numbers after this. On its own a carrier can out out a staggering 500 DPS using 5 max skilled fighters. Assuming its targetting a BS. Anything smaller and fighters wont track and it'll will have to use 5 heavies. For a massive 300 DPS. So basically what CCP plan to do is render these ships utterly defenseless. You will now ONLY be able to use them in blobs, because taking them into a fight where you have only a small supoprt gang will be suicidal. If the support ships die you may as well self destruct because you're probably not even going to be able to fight off a single HAC. ******* garbage. People won't even use them anymore because Dominixes do it better. 500dps can easily be achieved. Unless you are flying with a gang, in which case the carrier becomes instantly better. Which I think was the point of the 'fix'. The bigger concern I would have is just managing assigning fighters in large engagements. I would not have much problem with this change, but the idea of defenders have it all pre-assigned and the attacking fleet needing to manage it... it does not sound like a good idea unless they make other fixes first. There should not be solo-carrier pilots. Period. I am not sure how they exist now, given that a solo carrier is essentially free candy to the first good pvp corp that finds.
bldyannoyed Un4seen Development	Posted - 2007.10.22 01:43:00 - [30] Originally by: J Valkor Edited by: J Valkor on 22/10/2007 01:38:50 Originally by: Tar Manis Originally by: bldyannoyed Look at the numbers after this. On its own a carrier can out out a staggering 500 DPS using 5 max skilled fighters. Assuming its targetting a BS. Anything smaller and fighters wont track and it'll will have to use 5 heavies. For a massive 300 DPS. So basically what CCP plan to do is render these ships utterly defenseless. You will now ONLY be able to use them in blobs, because taking them into a fight where you have only a small supoprt gang will be suicidal. If the support ships die you may as well self destruct because you're probably not even going to be able to fight off a single HAC. ******* garbage. People won't even use them anymore because Dominixes do it better. 500dps can easily be achieved. Unless you are flying with a gang, in which case the carrier becomes instantly better. Which I think was the point of the 'fix'. The bigger concern I would have is just managing assigning fighters in large engagements. I would not have much problem with this change, but the idea of defenders have it all pre-assigned and the attacking fleet needing to manage it... it does not sound like a good idea unless they make other fixes first. There should not be solo-carrier pilots. Period. I am not sure how they exist now, given that a solo carrier is essentially free candy to the first good pvp corp that finds. As the game stands now in a small gang a carrier can be used as an offensive frontline weapon. With skills and a drone control mod you can run 10 drones, for a respectable 600 DPS with heavys, 750- 1000 with fighters. That leaves top slots free for a couple of remote arrays, and possibly a neut or 2. Now bear in mind that even pushing 1000 dps,.which, incidentally, requires a thanatos with carrier 5 and fighters 5, you still arent out dpsing a well setup BS. You can at least defend yourself while giving aid to your gang mates. Take away that self defense ability and you'd be mad to do anything other than fit as mony drone control units as you have skill for and remotely assign as many fighters as possible while hiding somehwere safe. I can see that enriching everyones gaming experience.

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