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Mourn Navarre
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.10.23 20:51:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Jasai Kameron
Originally by: Deva Blackfire now check damage from 3 ogres... 180 or so dps iirc. Plus 7 guns with 25% damage bonus = a lot. Compare it now to claymore/damnation/vulture. Now you should understand why eos is set BACK IN LINE with others.
We just agreed it had 5 turret slots. With 5 ions, 3 ogres and a mag stab you get 490 dps. Great.
Now tell me why you would fly that ship over an Astarte? Any offers? It's tank is terrible. DPS is pitiful in comparison.
Now why fly it over another Gang Ship? It loses the 15% (max) bonus to a useful gang mod boost that the others get, it has another wasted bonus boosting a 150m3 dronebay when it can only 75m3 bandwidth, and it's tank is terrible. What are you going to do? Use it as a blaster ship, while using it as a gang boosting ship and perhaps at the same time use its drone bay for logistic purposes? Not to mention that it's tank will pop at any moment, which rather defeats the whole point of a Command Ship.
You're fixated on a number. DPS. Fleet Command Ships shouldn't be caring about dps. Balancing the dps and capabilities between them is fine. Eos needed a nerf to dps. But it also needed a boost to being an actual Command Ship. Instead its been nerfed even further.
I have actually used its gang bonus before. I had trained for it when I had decided to focus on ewar skills and I was a drone ship specialist so it only seemed natural for me. It works best with sensor damps in a gang of Celestis or Arazu/Lachesis. I always found the resist bonus ones the least useful. I had someone with max leadership skills while using my own hardeners, I was maybe getting an extra 1.2% resist from the gang leader. Gee, be still my heart. The bonus was ok without using my own resists but it was still uncomfortably low compared to using resistance modules.
The other thing about the Eos is that as a drone ship, you can always just use your the largest logistic drones to rep your gang buddies. Another useful ability that other command ships cannot take full advantage of.
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Jasai Kameron
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.23 20:52:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire You clearly compared eos to astarte. Asking why you would fly it over astarte. And astarte is FIELD command ship. So check what you post instead of smashing keyboard in blind fury.
Yes, mate. And then I clearly compared the Eos to FLEET command ships. Hence why I used the word FLEET command ships. Go back, read the post. Right under the paragraph you quoted, I compared the Eos to other FLEET command ships. Should be darn easy to find.
If you want to fly field command ships, that's fine. But you are currently comparing fleet command ships as if there role is to be field command ships. Their role is not to be field command ships. Thay aren't there to do large amounts of dps and tackle. They are there to deliver bonuses to their gang. That's the most important part of their role.
I'm not sure how I can make that any more simple. I don't think you are actually reading my posts, so I don't see much more point in continuing this.
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Jasai Kameron
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.23 20:56:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Mourn Navarre I have actually used its gang bonus before. I had trained for it when I had decided to focus on ewar skills and I was a drone ship specialist so it only seemed natural for me. It works best with sensor damps in a gang of Celestis or Arazu/Lachesis. I always found the resist bonus ones the least useful. I had someone with max leadership skills while using my own hardeners, I was maybe getting an extra 1.2% resist from the gang leader. Gee, be still my heart. The bonus was ok without using my own resists but it was still uncomfortably low compared to using resistance modules.
The other thing about the Eos is that as a drone ship, you can always just use your the largest logistic drones to rep your gang buddies. Another useful ability that other command ships cannot take full advantage of.
With a mindlink and max skills, an armor resist gang mod should give every ship in your fleet approximmtely the equivalent of an extra EAN. Combine that with better armor rep (equiv of a T2 armor rate rig for example) and the tanks of the ships should be improving massively.
Yes, the Eos can boost EWAR ships, but that's only one part of your gang. So I think it's significantly less useful.
That's just my opinion. Obviously you disagree. Fair enough.
I'm outa here.
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slothe
Caldari 0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.10.23 20:57:00 -
[34]
eos was always overated tbh
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SpaceTrucker 3000
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Posted - 2007.10.23 20:59:00 -
[35]
Wow this coming patch is shaping up as the best patch ever. This nerf was strongly needed, I didn't even think they were going to nerf a gallente ship ever. Now damage is in par with the other fleet commands, it probably still outdamages them but not so ridiculously much. |
Nicocat
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.23 21:02:00 -
[36]
I am SO rubbing this in my friends' faces that trained exclusively for the Eos. ----------------
Originally by: Splagada SEED ME DADDY
Down with alts! One character per account per IP! |
Deva Blackfire
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.23 21:04:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Nicocat I am SO rubbing this in my friends' faces that trained exclusively for the Eos.
I already did. Twice. Especially that he ended skill training week ago and i told him before he even began that eos WILL be nerfed in rev3.
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Emperor D'Hoffryn
No Quarter. Vae Victis.
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Posted - 2007.10.23 21:05:00 -
[38]
the EOS was/is a crappy fleet command ship, due to the close range nature of its damage even now, before the nerf.
To be a GOOD fleet command, it needs to get its damage primarily from rails, and lose the drones all together. There is a reason it was only ever used to solopwnmobile.
I suppose it could protect other fleet command ships against things that got close....
Either way, it should NOT have been the solopwnmobile that it was...but it does need, I think, a significant redesign.
Originally by: Snuggly It's just so great to have an actual reason to not die, incentive is fantastic!
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Mourn Navarre
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.10.23 21:08:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Jasai Kameron With a mindlink and max skills, an armor resist gang mod should give every ship in your fleet approximmtely the equivalent of an extra EAN. Combine that with better armor rep (equiv of a T2 armor rate rig for example) and the tanks of the ships should be improving massively.
I don't think she had a mindlink on but I am not sure how much of a difference that would made. I trained to fly so many ships so I wouldn't be forced to just look at stats. But her bonuses never even came close to an extra EANM. Maybe if I was just using one and nothing else. With the way the math works, the more mods you use, the lower the bonus is. You wouldn't want someone having a 100% resist bonus after all. Closest I have seen is around 92%
Originally by: Jasai Kameron
Yes, the Eos can boost EWAR ships, but that's only one part of your gang. So I think it's significantly less useful.
That's just my opinion. Obviously you disagree. Fair enough.
Um, but wouldn't the reverse be true as well? :) You have ewar ships in your gang and the resist bonuses do nothing for them. Nor do they do anything for speed based ships like a Claymore would. Eh, eh? *nudge* *nudge*
I think the Eos is the most useful of all the command ships. It can, if you want, use the resist bonus links. I didn't actually use all 3 infoware links, I only used 2. I dropped a skirmish one on there too. 5 med slots let me slap on some dampeners plus I got the strength bonus from my own links to give me an effective damp strength nearly equal to that of a celestis. Then you got logistic drones to help with some repping on your gangmates. It's all good.
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Cornette
Gallente M. Corp M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.10.23 21:08:00 -
[40]
I'm will take my eos and myrmidon and go shoot things in lowsec until I blow up. Then I will never fly these ships again. It was fun as long as it lasted.
To bad the whine crowd got what they asked for. Only fair that it is the same people that was screaming for a nerf of them that are now crying over the possible carrier nerf :)
//Cornette
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Shereza
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Posted - 2007.10.23 21:18:00 -
[41]
Heh, I'll still be training for and flying an eos. Looks cool. Don't care about the changes since I want to fly it for reasons other than stats that didn't do a thing for me before it was changed.
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Horza Otho
Minmatar Infortunatus Eventus HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2007.10.23 21:26:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Cornette To bad the whine crowd got what they asked for.
The ship is grossly overpowered when compared to other fleet command ships. Fly an Astarte.
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dalman
Finite Horizon
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Posted - 2007.10.23 21:28:00 -
[43]
Sigh, CCP strikes again.
Yes, the Eos was a very good solo ship. Perhaps it was appropriate to nerf it, as this wasn't it's "intended" role. And this nerf, removal of turrets and drone nerf (hey, remember it doesn't have a damage bonus plz!) makes it pretty much useless for solo PvP.
But the problem then is that the Eos is completely useless in it's "intended" role. And I'm not talking about the "uselessness" of information links. First off, the Eos has the worst tank of the 4 fleet ships. In a gang situation, where it's intended, it has by far the worst tank. For example, the rep bonus is pretty much useless, it's got a big sig radius, it only have 5 lows and it has a huge exp hole that has to be filled. Except the fact that a plate doesn't get the resist bonus of damnation/vulture, it really lacks grid to fit one. The fitting reqs also continue to haunt it when trying to fit gang links. You'll pretty much be flying with 4 empty highs (some exaggeration, but you can't fit decent guns).
Then there is the drone thing. Who is the dev @ CCP that is designing ships without understanding that drones are very useful in a solo fight but becomes more and more useless the more ships that are involved?
It's seriously some kind of achievement to come up with the idea of making a fleet ship that is based on drones and armor rep bonus, both of which are ******* useless in a fleet.
Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me |
hattifnatt
Gallente The Movement
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Posted - 2007.10.23 21:30:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Horza Otho Edited by: Horza Otho on 23/10/2007 21:27:02
Originally by: Cornette To bad the whine crowd got what they asked for.
The ship is grossly overpowered when compared to other fleet command ships. This wasnt a nerf, it was a balance and it got what it needed. Fly an Astarte.
Why not boost the other fleet commands then? (they do suck bad.) i suxz at grammar, k? |
Acoco Osiris
Gallente Sublime.
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Posted - 2007.10.23 21:36:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Kai Shinkachi Edited by: Kai Shinkachi on 23/10/2007 20:24:59 OMFG, what is it with you people!1!!11!!! Drone boats are not overpowered....
Why? Because drones are about as durable as paper... paper damnit! Hell most ships have the power to use 5 Light drones, send those after Heavy drones and watch what happens... ice cream dumped into the sun. Or better yet, people could think and bring a smart bomb with them. One blast, one wave of drones. Honestly people drones are not that powerful. They may have some hefty damage but they're sooooooo flimsy. So come on, at least let the Eos have 100 bandwith. It is a bloody command ship that takes NEAR 50 DAYS of training to get just on the Space ship command skills (stop rolling your eyes carrier/Dread pilots, i know that is not a long time for you). But honestly. The point of the Gallente drone boats is to be better than everyone else's drone boats. And now they have the same damn bandwith as other non gallente ships? So what is the point of being Gallente special ops then? (have picked that as my starter I always have used drones... the only weapon I ever used until L4s). So basically, being gimped at startup as Gallente by picking drones is even worse now! That Gallente cannot field more drones that are more powerful than everyone else? So we might as well just give everyone drone boats then...
EDIT: This rant is not just about the Eos, which if anything needing a Tanking nerf because it can tank a planet...
I'm going to point out a few flaws with your wall of text. First-drones actually can take a fair bit of abuse before dying. If the drone controller is close to his drones, it is very difficult to kill the drones before they're scooped. Some ships (notably the Drake) can do it, but require a full volley on a single drone. Light drones sure would be nasty vs. heavy drones, but again, they can't kill the heavies before they're back with Mommy, unless Mommy's being an inattentive idiot. Second-It takes several heavy smartbombs to pop a drone, and they are absolute cap hogs. If you fit to kill drones, guess what your entire role will be-oh, it'll be killing drones! Third-Just because the Eos has been nerfed does not mean that the plethora of Gallente drone boats have been nerfed, or that the Gallente gunboats have lost their large drone bays. Fourth-the Eos, despite having a good tank, doesn't have an ungodly tank. ------------------------------ One more soldier off to war... And one Velator in my hangars. |
shinsushi
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.10.23 21:39:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Acoco Osiris
Originally by: Kai Shinkachi Edited by: Kai Shinkachi on 23/10/2007 20:24:59 OMFG, what is it with you people!1!!11!!! Drone boats are not overpowered....
Why? Because drones are about as durable as paper... paper damnit! Hell most ships have the power to use 5 Light drones, send those after Heavy drones and watch what happens... ice cream dumped into the sun. Or better yet, people could think and bring a smart bomb with them. One blast, one wave of drones. Honestly people drones are not that powerful. They may have some hefty damage but they're sooooooo flimsy. So come on, at least let the Eos have 100 bandwith. It is a bloody command ship that takes NEAR 50 DAYS of training to get just on the Space ship command skills (stop rolling your eyes carrier/Dread pilots, i know that is not a long time for you). But honestly. The point of the Gallente drone boats is to be better than everyone else's drone boats. And now they have the same damn bandwith as other non gallente ships? So what is the point of being Gallente special ops then? (have picked that as my starter I always have used drones... the only weapon I ever used until L4s). So basically, being gimped at startup as Gallente by picking drones is even worse now! That Gallente cannot field more drones that are more powerful than everyone else? So we might as well just give everyone drone boats then...
EDIT: This rant is not just about the Eos, which if anything needing a Tanking nerf because it can tank a planet...
I'm going to point out a few flaws with your wall of text. First-drones actually can take a fair bit of abuse before dying. If the drone controller is close to his drones, it is very difficult to kill the drones before they're scooped. Some ships (notably the Drake) can do it, but require a full volley on a single drone. Light drones sure would be nasty vs. heavy drones, but again, they can't kill the heavies before they're back with Mommy, unless Mommy's being an inattentive idiot. Second-It takes several heavy smartbombs to pop a drone, and they are absolute cap hogs. If you fit to kill drones, guess what your entire role will be-oh, it'll be killing drones! Third-Just because the Eos has been nerfed does not mean that the plethora of Gallente drone boats have been nerfed, or that the Gallente gunboats have lost their large drone bays. Fourth-the Eos, despite having a good tank, doesn't have an ungodly tank.
Just to back you up, OGRE IIs on a bonused ship have nearly te effective HP of a frigate, at around 5,000 HP.
AMARR - Taking it up the butt since 2005 |
Sandzibarr
A.W.M Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.10.23 21:42:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Sandzibarr on 23/10/2007 21:42:33 dont forget that rev3 will also bring in the new 'drones dont heal shields' feature once you scoop and re-release them..
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shinsushi
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.10.23 21:44:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Sandzibarr dont forget that rev3 will also bring in the new 'drones dont heal sheilds' feature once you scoop and release em..
True, so that just means pre-emptively scoop/deploy your drones in combination with dampners. Really... how fast can another BS lock your drones with 2-3 damps on it?
Test it out with a friend, figure out a good amount of time, get used to it... then pretend nothing happened.
AMARR - Taking it up the butt since 2005 |
xHoodx
The Establishment Establishment
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Posted - 2007.10.23 21:52:00 -
[49]
Originally by: shinsushi
Originally by: Sandzibarr dont forget that rev3 will also bring in the new 'drones dont heal sheilds' feature once you scoop and release em..
True, so that just means pre-emptively scoop/deploy your drones in combination with dampners. Really... how fast can another BS lock your drones with 2-3 damps on it?
Test it out with a friend, figure out a good amount of time, get used to it... then pretend nothing happened.
Of course if you want to solo in the eos you pretty much want scrambler, webber, injector and mwd taking up 4 of your mid slots leaving 1 slot to fit a dampener in.
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shinsushi
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.10.23 21:55:00 -
[50]
Originally by: xHoodx
Originally by: shinsushi
Originally by: Sandzibarr dont forget that rev3 will also bring in the new 'drones dont heal sheilds' feature once you scoop and release em..
True, so that just means pre-emptively scoop/deploy your drones in combination with dampners. Really... how fast can another BS lock your drones with 2-3 damps on it?
Test it out with a friend, figure out a good amount of time, get used to it... then pretend nothing happened.
Of course if you want to solo in the eos you pretty much want scrambler, webber, injector and mwd taking up 4 of your mid slots leaving 1 slot to fit a dampener in.
Your right, 1 dampner would be a bit of a pain in the ass for the scoop deploy method. I was think along the lines of the domi.
*me shows himself outta the thread.
AMARR - Taking it up the butt since 2005 |
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dalman
Finite Horizon
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Posted - 2007.10.23 22:18:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Augeas
Quote: Of course if you want to solo in the eos you pretty much want scrambler, webber, injector and mwd taking up 4 of your mid slots leaving 1 slot to fit a dampener in.
There should be no reason to solo in a Fleet Command.
Yes, but do I have to link you to my post a bit up on the page? Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me |
OneSock
Crown Industries
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Posted - 2007.10.23 22:49:00 -
[52]
:P CCP. The beauty of the Eos was it's flexibility. It may suck as a fleet command but was perfect PVE ship and now it's next to useless.
Well time to sell her before she's left to gather dust in the hanger.
I mean what the hell sort of bonus is that when you can't bloody use it ? 150 is 3 sets of meds right ? so 210 bay at lev 4 is 4 sets of meds... er great... that's a great bonus... NOT.
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Mashie Saldana
Minmatar Hooligans Of War Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.10.23 23:07:00 -
[53]
With 3 gangmods fitted you don't have space for more than 5 guns and that is what the ship is intended for.
If you want firepower get an Astarte.
Jita fix: The distributed market hub
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Shevar
Minmatar A.W.M Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.10.23 23:09:00 -
[54]
Originally by: dalman Sigh, CCP strikes again.
Yes, the Eos was a very good solo ship. Perhaps it was appropriate to nerf it, as this wasn't it's "intended" role. And this nerf, removal of turrets and drone nerf (hey, remember it doesn't have a damage bonus plz!) makes it pretty much useless for solo PvP.
But the problem then is that the Eos is completely useless in it's "intended" role. And I'm not talking about the "uselessness" of information links. First off, the Eos has the worst tank of the 4 fleet ships. In a gang situation, where it's intended, it has by far the worst tank. For example, the rep bonus is pretty much useless, it's got a big sig radius, it only have 5 lows and it has a huge exp hole that has to be filled. Except the fact that a plate doesn't get the resist bonus of damnation/vulture, it really lacks grid to fit one. The fitting reqs also continue to haunt it when trying to fit gang links. You'll pretty much be flying with 4 empty highs (some exaggeration, but you can't fit decent guns).
Then there is the drone thing. Who is the dev @ CCP that is designing ships without understanding that drones are very useful in a solo fight but becomes more and more useless the more ships that are involved?
It's seriously some kind of achievement to come up with the idea of making a fleet ship that is based on drones and armor rep bonus, both of which are ******* useless in a fleet.
I fully agree with you, but quite frankly CCP didn't do anything improve the curse/pilgrim gang abilities after nerfing it's solo abilities into the ground. Heck instead they decided to introduce a mini curse which even sucks more...
--- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
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Vitaki
Rens 911
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Posted - 2007.10.23 23:10:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Incantare And FYI I fly blasterboats, Thorax and blaster Myrm specifically, I considered training for an Eos but had the sense to see it was overpowered and would inevitably be nerfed.
Lolol they are nerfing the Myrmidon down to 75/125. Want some ketchup with your foot?
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Kuzya Morozov
Gallente Beets and Gravy Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.10.23 23:14:00 -
[56]
Originally by: shinsushi
Slightly overpowered?
HEy, with 5 turrets and 5 medium drones, the EOS will still be the # damage dealing fleet command ship won't it? How many DPS is it still pumping out anyway?
Are you too busy whining about Amarr or are you joking? --------------------------
"There's always a bigger blob."
-Qui-Gon Jinn |
Bailian Moxtain
Infinitus Odium The Church.
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Posted - 2007.10.23 23:34:00 -
[57]
Originally by: SpaceTrucker 3000 Wow this coming patch is shaping up as the best patch ever. This nerf was strongly needed, I didn't even think they were going to nerf a gallente ship ever. Now damage is in par with the other fleet commands, it probably still outdamages them but not so ridiculously much.
u suck...
- made in Norway - |
Barek Ironfist
Gallente eXceed Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.23 23:39:00 -
[58]
As a long term gallente pilot i cannot compare the eos to the other commandships, however i can say that i disagree with some of the changes to the ship. The bandwidth was an expected change and i can understand that and don't mind. But i vehemently disagree with the removal of 2 turrets from the ship. At most it should have just lost 1.
Not that happy in balance.
Barek
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Malvahne
Sativah Holandica
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Posted - 2007.10.23 23:45:00 -
[59]
since I only fly the Eos for its looks and diversity (sp??) of setups I can only say,
bummer.
but good thing I avoided using those lame 'look at my 7 heavy neutron II, 5 Ogres II dps creamage' /**** /**** /****.
yeah it sucks but please do not say you did not see this comming becous then your just being a ignorent ****.
oh and I'm ******* at the posible carrier nerf. gogogo ccp <3.
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Incantare
Caldari Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.10.24 00:20:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Incantare on 24/10/2007 00:32:28
Originally by: Vitaki Lolol they are nerfing the Myrmidon down to 75/125. Want some ketchup with your foot?
I've known the Myrm would get nerfed for a while now, but you won't see whining about it. Reason is I consider it a good change, the Myrm will be on par with the other tier 2 BCs and I will continue to fly it. Not that it's getting two turrets ripped off.
I didn't train specifically for it though, I picked it up between the Drake and Thorax.
On the Eos:
Originally by: CCP Atropos The Eos has been brought in line with the other Fleet Command ships. It has, for a long time, been immensely overpowered compared to the Claymore, Damnation and Vulture. It was the only Fleet Command ship that could out damage it's equivalent Field Command. If you don't think that's wrong, then can I have some of what you're smoking?
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