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Aerandir Telrunya
Gallente
Bears Inc
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Posted - 2007.10.26 23:49:00 -
[181]
Edited by: Aerandir Telrunya on 26/10/2007 23:51:15
 Originally by: Mila Prestoc
Exactly my point about orbiting out of web range so you can seperate drone from ship to kill it, for some reason all Myr pilots take this 1v1 situation as normal. All it takes is 1 ship capable of catching the quicker ship for the Myr to get in range to kill it, because no othee BC could deal so much damage and tank so much. Going in web range was suicide against a char with good skills, even if well skilled yourself, things will be a bit more realistic in damage dealing.
If the issue is they really are to easy to kill, especially with no more instant shield recharge by scoop and deploy, ask for more HP or more spare drones.
5 Med drones (not even the max dps you can get with 75m3) still gives 200+ DPS, plus an easy 150-250 DPS from turrets with no damage mods, thats 350-450 DPS, with no damage mods, the 3rd best BC tank and can fit EW. Thats still a lot of upsides.
So your complaining that a 2v1 (tackling ship + gank ship) will kill your Hurricane... yes... but the same applies the otherway around. One ship to tackle the myrmidon and one to kill drones and gank it... still not seeing the problem.
In a small gang (4-5 ships) where your after DPS and the chance of the drones coming under fire is smaller then yes its a good dps ship. But then so are a lot of ships! And so what if it has a niche? Surely its allowed to be the best at something?
And as for using 5 medium drones for my DPS... then why would I choose this ship over the brutix for providing gang DPS? Or even the 2 ogres, 1 hammerhead and 1 light the vexor is faster and cheaper!
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Mila Prestoc
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Posted - 2007.10.27 02:34:00 -
[182]
Originally by: Aerandir Telrunya
Edited by: Aerandir Telrunya on 27/10/2007 00:11:10
Edited by: Aerandir Telrunya on 26/10/2007 23:51:15
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
....
So your complaining that a 2v1 (tackling ship + gank ship) will kill your Hurricane... yes... but the same applies the otherway around. One ship to tackle the myrmidon and one to kill drones and gank it... still not seeing the problem.
In a small gang (4-5 ships) where your after DPS and the chance of the drones coming under fire is smaller then yes its a good dps ship. But then so are a lot of ships! And so what if it has a niche? Surely its allowed to be the best at something?
And as for using 5 medium drones for my DPS... then why would I choose this ship over the brutix for providing gang DPS? Or even the 2 ogres, 2 hammerhead and 1 light the vexor is faster and cheaper!
Please don't put words in my mouth, I was saying everyone says "just kite and kill the drones, your quicker and lighter so can do it", my point was as soon as you get more than 1v1 suddenly things arn't so simple, never said can should beat a Myr in a outnumbered (even skilled) fight which would obviously be a stupid arguement. So thats 1v1s away from stations and gates that kiting is possible...
"so are a lot of ships"... no, it was clearly the best overall, now nothing will be.
"best at something"... so without damage mods you want it to have better damage than tank bonused ships using damage mods? along with top 3 tank, easiest to fit with EW and in top half of speed/agility of BC's, cos thats what it was.
5 hammers, 5 valks, 5 warriors, pick the best vs the target, and have spares was my point, along with the extra mid (or 2) over other (none shield tanking) BC's, and 6 lows with a tank bonus would still be a powerful ship, you've got more potential dps than even this. Why use it over a Brutix... extra low along with more HP so more tank and extra mid for EW maybe?
Vexor this Vexor that... Myr's got spare drones, along with 2 more mids, 2 more lows, tank bonus and more effective number of turrets. They are completely differnet ships so what they can field the same drones, they can't do the same total damage!
I think i've made my points unless anything else has been misunderstood, will let others discuss there views, which is always better than /signed with no arguements.
-------------------------
Originally by: "Lord Violent"
EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
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Banzai OdiN
Caldari
Species 5618
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.27 11:38:00 -
[183]
Still no dev feedback ? 
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Xenomorphea
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.10.27 11:48:00 -
[184]
Edited by: Xenomorphea on 27/10/2007 11:48:36
/signed
Bandwidth on Myrmidon should be at least 100 Mbit. While I can accept it may not have the same bandwidth as a Dominix, it should also not have the same bandwidth as a Vexor, it is a BC drone-boat, ffs! (and does not even have a hybrid weapon bonus like the Vexor)
And for all those who whine about it's "overpowerness": its main weapon is destroyable, with missiles you can take out heavy drones really fast.
And with the new shield regen nerf, even more so. Once the drones are killed, a Myrm is just a useless tank.
If you think a Myrm is overpowered, you probably do not know how to fight drone boats.
2 options:
- leave bandwidth at 125 Mbit, and just remove 2 turret hardpoints (max 4 turrets).
- set bandwidth to 100 Mbit, and leave all 6 turrets.
Cheers, Xeno
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Aerandir Telrunya
Gallente
Bears Inc
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Posted - 2007.10.27 12:12:00 -
[185]
Quote:
So thats 1v1s away from stations and gates that kiting is possible...
Ok - So you admit that in this situation a hurricane will 'beat' a myrmidon... Ok so thats one situation where its certainly not overpowered.
Quote:
"so are a lot of ships"... no, it was clearly the best overall, now nothing will be.
I disagree, well sorta - If the fleet has to disengage then the chances are the myrmidon will lose its dps for the next fight (unless he can find a friendly station to dock at). Similarly if he loses an ogre or 2 - I don't call that the best! A hurricane can keep on going, its not like he can leave his guns behind (assuming he's brought enough ammo).
Ok - so basically what you have a problem with is that at the moment the myrmidon can put out (due to is ogres) a much higher DPS than any other BC against a slow moving target whilst maintaining a good tank on the condition no one shoots his drones. If this is the case then you must also have the same problem with the ishtar, perhaps even more so as it can actually replace its drones.
I think you are only seeing the myrmidon in this one situation. The one where people arn't shooting its ogres, which TBH although it happens, 1/2 the time it shouldn't do.
Now no one said it shouldn't be nerfed - I just feel they are doing it the wrong way. There is now little to choose from between the brutix and the myrmidon even for the dedicated drone user!
As for the vexor, ok that was meant a little tongue in cheek but as drone boats go, should a drone cruiser (drones being the primary dps) be able to field the same as a drone battlecruiser?
You've made your points but I still don't agree with them, particularly the one about it not being allowed to be the best dps dealer in a situation where its drones arn't being shot at. If thats the case perhaps we should nerf the drake for clearly being able to tank the best (say in a situation where ewar and actual DPS wasn't an issue) or the the hurricane where speed is a requirement (but tank and DPS wasn't such an issue). As far as I can see there is always a ship which is better than the others at a certain role/in a certain situation, thats just the way eve works.
I guess it comes down to how big an issue is it that you can lose your DPS. I say it's a huge drawback, you don't think it is. We both agree that the DPS needs to be reduced, you (assuming you actually fly a myrmidon) would rather keep the turrets and lose the heavy drones (and the option of very high very vulnerable dps) where as I like the fact you have an option of having different setups (including the very cool sniping one) and would be happier if we lost some guns to drop the dps.
I guess I just like the option to do different things with my ships and be able to think out of the box when it comes to setups for them, I guess you don't :-(
ps. as a primary drone user I also like having the option of a battle crusier sized drone boat, I guess I will have to (as people keep saying) go back to my domi (or the ishtar).
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Lillandra Peregrine
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Posted - 2007.10.28 06:49:00 -
[186]
i just hope the feedback in this thread is sufficient for ccp to take notice. myrmi pilots have the same tactical issues to deal with as any gallente drone pilot - distance and a fragile weapon system. (yes those drones that ppl seem to worry about so much are actually quite easy to destroy).
high risk and high gain. just as a snaked-up minmatar pilot doesn't engage at pointblank range and knows when to run, so should anyone facing a dangerous drone boat. (yes the myrm is dangerous, no doubt about that, but so are many other ships in the right situation).
the whole general 'point' of gallente is drones and close up unmatchable damage. it keeps with the flavor and threat of this whole race's ships. 'balancing' drones for all other races i can understand to a certain extent but taking away the key features that make these kinds of gallente ships so fun to fly is unwarranted.
also a point on ship flexibility - I really hope we're not going in a WOW type direction where you have very 'fixed' character classes. Leave room for flexibility and the creativity of the players to come up with powerful ideas and configurations.
EVE has always been a unique game which stood on it's own strengths - it's the only mmorpg i play because of these reasons.
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A Sinner
Umbra Congregatio
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.10.28 10:00:00 -
[187]
/signed
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Rabid Sheep
Anqara Expeditions
The OSS
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Posted - 2007.10.28 10:30:00 -
[188]
NOT signed!
Myrm as it is = too much.
I am Paper, Nerf Scissors, Rock is fine.. |
1Evildude
Gallente
Kingdom of Kador
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Posted - 2007.10.28 10:50:00 -
[189]
/Signed
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Denga Vulture
The X-Trading Company
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2007.10.28 10:58:00 -
[190]
/signed
and to all the whiners about the "overpowered" myrmi ...every skilled player can kill easily the heavies of the myrmi ... learn to play the game and stop crying 
- All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me
- Pure drone user... give us a mini carrier and faction Dominix please |
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Aerandir Telrunya
Gallente
Bears Inc
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Posted - 2007.10.28 12:47:00 -
[191]
Originally by: Rabid Sheep
NOT signed!
Myrm as it is = too much.
Yes, but do you think this is the correct way to nerf it? Or do you just want it nerfed?
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Mush Morton
Caldari
Wolf Echelon
Combined Planetary Union
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Posted - 2007.10.28 22:28:00 -
[192]
Edited by: Mush Morton on 28/10/2007 22:31:51
/unsigned
The myrm is able to push too much damage in its current state. I personally have the skills and capabilities to take out drones, but many players do not. For them, it's not easy to follow the prescribed methods of "fighting" drone boats. Not only this, but the ew/energy tricks drone boats are able to get away with for pvp is shameful.
Nerf the bloody thing to the stone age. 
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Molon Labe! |
kattak4
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.10.28 23:08:00 -
[193]
Edited by: kattak4 on 28/10/2007 23:08:37
In reality i think that because people who fail to shoot drones on drone ships are so very vocal in their whining that ccp will not reverse the gallente/drone nerf. This means:
Amarr nerf? check.
Gallente nerf? check.
We'll be seeing either the caldari or minmatar pilots pleading for their ships come the next expansion, the question is which will it be? caldari or minmatar?
Of course at that time we'll get to say "Lol, (insert ship) was too overpowered anyway, there was no way to combat it! It needed a rebalance"
I've already posted here with my opinion but i thought i would add that. There is no reason the Myrm should be a larger more expensive vexor.
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Ishicko Intakino
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Posted - 2007.10.29 07:43:00 -
[194]
/signed
Don't nerf it! Myrm is my first combat ship! I used to ride a hauler.
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mythrindar
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Posted - 2007.10.29 09:30:00 -
[195]
/signed, ccp put away your nerf bat FFS!!!!!!!!!!!
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Gamesguy
Amarr
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.29 09:52:00 -
[196]
/Unsigned,
Why should gallente get a super BC that can gank and tank at the same time while everybody else has 1 tanking BC that does minimal damage(ferox, prophecy, cyclone) and 1 gank BC that doesnt tank so well(ok so drake is the exception, Caldari gets 2 tanking BCs).
Myrmidon has a tanking bonus, it needs to be brought inline with other tanking BCs like the ferox, drake, prophecy, and claymore. Use a brutix if you want dps.
signature removed - please email us to find out why (include a link to the image URL) - Jacques([email protected]) |
Ladis
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.10.29 10:52:00 -
[197]
/Signed
The nerf should be ajusted.
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Presidente Gallente
Pirate Hunters Inc
Exa Nation
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Posted - 2007.10.29 11:03:00 -
[198]
Edited by: Presidente Gallente on 29/10/2007 11:05:53
Originally by: Mush Morton
Edited by: Mush Morton on 28/10/2007 22:31:51
/unsigned
The myrm is able to push too much damage in its current state. I personally have the skills and capabilities to take out drones, but many players do not. For them, it's not easy to follow the prescribed methods of "fighting" drone boats. Not only this, but the ew/energy tricks drone boats are able to get away with for pvp is shameful.
Nerf the bloody thing to the stone age.
A low skilled Myrm is easy to kill.
A high skilled Myrm to BC5 and Ogre II near maxed out is indeed not an easy target for noobs.
BUT again: I had just one fight so far against a Pilgrim where the pilot concentrated on my drones and this is where the Myrm pilot ends up in serious trouble. If someone tries to take out your drones you need to stay in close combat anyway and your dps is distracted by take them in and eject them all the time.
But it seems that many pilots fight drone ships wrong. They have not set up an overview for that or just concentrate on the ship itself in hope to get it down fast. Facing a Myrm pilot with Ogre II means: give the drones a hard time and the Myrm pilot is under stress to watch the drone overview, combat field, mods and local all the time. Gun pilots don't have that kind of additional multi-tasking.
I have the impression that only long time Myrm pilots can really discuss here. I fly the Myrm from the beginning and it's not that kind of overpowered ship where you engage everything.
If we have to talk about a compromise than nerf it to 4 Ogre in combat. Because a nerf to 3 Ogre is switching the whole situation to opposite. CCP should learn not to listen to low-skilled whiners all the time. For those whiners I just recommend: get PvP experience and more skills ... get some more backup and a Myrm is dead for sure if you are not totally disorganized.
Pres G
+++ JOIN PAP +++ |
Lukas Rox
Galactic Nightmare
Helghast.
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Posted - 2007.10.29 12:51:00 -
[199]
/signed, BUT
give it 100mbits instead of 75mbits (not 125 either)
since drones are the first target in PvP (thats what I do anyway) myrm ends up with the lowest dmg output of all t2 BC once its drones are toasted. 4 Ogres are still able to give you nice ratting capability while you don't have as much power as lets say Ishtar, which is in line with other races.
---
Visit in game for nice items links http://eve.interkam.pl/eveships
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Digital Anarchist
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.10.29 15:03:00 -
[200]
/signed
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This space for rent |
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Korran Minare
Gallente
Spaced Cowboys
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Posted - 2007.10.29 15:08:00 -
[201]
/signed
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Kublai Khan
Caldari
TAOSP
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.10.29 15:21:00 -
[202]
Edited by: Kublai Khan on 29/10/2007 15:25:49
Originally by: Syberbolt8
Originally by: Incantare
You don't get it. Passive regen tanked drakes are terrible pvp ships, they cannot tackle and have poor dps. He's talking about an hp tank.
Your telling me some fool is sitting out there in a drake with an hp tank? where are you, i need to see if your red to me lol. Not the fourm for this so thats as much as im gonna talk about this.
only a fool (and selfish one) will bring a regen tank in gang pvp...
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Ynos Fukse
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Posted - 2007.10.29 15:52:00 -
[203]
Edited by: Ynos Fukse on 29/10/2007 15:54:58
I don't sign here becose i'm gallente and all the other races noobs will scream:
"AWWWWwwww he want he's UBER DUPER myrmidon UNTUCHED!"
Train for the god damn ships.. face a myr and then say it is uber.
(of cource i have all lvl5 needs for myr, maybe those are making me uber.. not the ship itself god damn it)
.
later edit:
Originally by: Ronin Hybonashi
/signed
The myrmidon is one of the few stable and usable tier 2 battle cruisers in the game, and I dont care what your stats are I have been killed by more hurricanes than myrmidons.
Smart bomb's seem to always equal the playing field when it comes to drones....
NERF THE HURRICANE!!!!
.
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Altaica Amur
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Posted - 2007.10.29 17:38:00 -
[204]
Quote:
(besides a drake CANNOT! tank 800+ dps, for that long(and 1-2 neut/nos will kill it in 2sec, since no cap=no res= dead drake and lost X billion isk (if it should be able to tank 800+ dps.)
Errrr, no. Passive tanking means that even with active hardeners Nos/Neut doesn't destroy you that easily because they have very very low cap use. Furthermore if someone has a full set of nos/neut on(which is what would be required to take down BC cap quickly) they're not doing that much damage against your poor poor drake so it's unresisted tank 549 or so on top skills will probably be taking that damage fine and for the paranoid you can just put passive hardners on instead and tank 800 dps instead of the 864 you get with active hardners ( and a PDS instead of a shield relay for cap production ). BTW such a setup won't even cost you 1 billion isk, more like ~100 mil which for something that will be completely passively tanking many megathrons, is a good deal.
As for the Myr, I think that it would be a shame to kill one of the most interesting to fit ships in the game by removing nearly 50% of it's damage which would probably go on to be the biggest nerf in EVE history, especially when combined with the changes to scooping. There might still be issues with the Myr being overpowered after the changes to drones but we don't know that yet and especially when considering how changing scooping will negatively affect the survivability of drones the entire replacement thing will probably drive people away from the 5 heavies setup anyways, I know I'm already on the fence with moving to a set of mediums and replacements instead.
I think what a lot of people are forgetting is that the destructibility of drones is a permenant thing, drones don't come out of being destroyed like you come out of ECM and with heavy setups on the myr you never get that DPS back and even if you have replacements it costs money. I've often run into PvP situations where drones and the ships that launch them are manipulated by speedier or more ranged setups resulting in the destruction of their drones or worse the isolation of their ship entirely. I'm not saying that the myr dosen't have it's issues in balancing, but I do think we should wait and see what the changes to drones are going to do to it before hitting it that hard with the nerf bat.
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Krissie
Shadows of the Dead
Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.29 17:43:00 -
[205]
IMPORTANT NEWS JUST LEAKED BY CCP:
They are now not paid by the hour, but by the nerf, well, we are ****** now guys, cya back in WOW!
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agram tabris
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.10.29 20:32:00 -
[206]
/signed for all accounts i have..
no sig. |
Xenomorphea
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.10.31 20:03:00 -
[207]
/bump
Suggested options:
- leave bandwidth at 125 Mbit, and just remove 2 turret hardpoints (max 4 turrets).
- set bandwidth to 100 Mbit, and leave all 6 turrets.
Still no reaction from CCP?
Cheers, Xeno
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kattak4
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.10.31 20:09:00 -
[208]
Originally by: Krissie
IMPORTANT NEWS JUST LEAKED BY CCP:
They are now not paid by the hour, but by the nerf, well, we are ****** now guys, cya back in WOW!
Why not wait till march? By then they will have "rebalanced" everything to the point where the game is a chore. Also Age of Conan comes out march  
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Hober Mallov
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Posted - 2007.11.01 16:42:00 -
[209]
/signed |
Hestia Millie
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Posted - 2007.11.02 07:26:00 -
[210]
/signed
"scoop-deploy" nerf = myrm w/ 5 heavies nerf
no need to nerf twice imho :\
sry for alt posting
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