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1olsus	Posted - 2007.10.24 07:49:00 - [1] PLZ Don't nerf, 3 heavy drons it's shockingly
DasDizzy	Posted - 2007.10.24 07:53:00 - [2] /signed people only whine because they dont know how to fight drone boats
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr Do Or Die And Live Or Try	Posted - 2007.10.24 08:04:00 - [3] /Unsinged Heavy drones are a large weapon supposed to be used by battleships. I don't see a harbinger capable of fitting 5 Mega Pulse Lasers, do you?
Vandamsel Gallente Dark Star LTD Atrocitas	Posted - 2007.10.24 08:06:00 - [4] Originally by: DasDizzy /signed people only whine because they dont know how to fight drone boats exactly, /signed SAVE THE EOS TOO!!STOP the nerfs CCP!!!
Weenkee	Posted - 2007.10.24 08:26:00 - [5] /signed It was a great ship for ratting. But not with 3 drones....
Valery Galaxy	Posted - 2007.10.24 08:32:00 - [6] /signed
DasDizzy	Posted - 2007.10.24 08:47:00 - [7] how to fight droneboats 1. engage 2. shoot drones 3. ????? 4. profit
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2007.10.24 08:58:00 - [8] Guys, are you just stating that the myrmidon should have more firepower than the ishtar? As in -ishtar gets 3*1.25 turrets and 5 heavy drones -myrmidon gets 6 turrets and 5 heavy drones This sounds quite wrong... -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Say hello to my tiny friends !
Swamp Ziro GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.24 09:19:00 - [9] signed, qft, twisted twisted not really, cry more :V
1olsus	Posted - 2007.10.24 09:22:00 - [10] for example Harbringer have 5 med drones and bonus for lasers Myrmidon have 5 drones but don't have bonus for turrets

Banzai OdiN Caldari Species 5618 R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.24 09:43:00 - [11] /signed
Nuelon Amarr Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.10.24 09:49:00 - [12] but harbinger dont has drone bonus...
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2007.10.24 09:53:00 - [13] Taking a harbinger in EFT with all skills at 5 : 435 DPS on heavy beam laser II with multifrequency and 5 hammerhead II (needs rigs to fit, also suffers some cap problems) and the tank is rated as 234 (2 mar II) Taking a myrmidon 639 DPS on 250mm railgun II with antimatter and 5 ogre II (needs exactlty same rigs as prophecy, and has very little cap problems) and the tank is rated as 322 (2 MAR II) So, should the myrmidon be so clearly superior to the harbinger? With 5 med drones (hammerhead II), and same fit, it has 401 DPS which sounds fine as it tanks more and has less cap problems. With 75 m3 of drones in space (2 ogre II, 2 hammerhead II, 1 hobgob II) if goes up to 479 DPS which is STILL more than the harbinger... Really, nothing to worry about, the myrmidon is still much better, it just can have its drones destroyed, but as you will have larger dronebay than the bandwidth, you'll replace them as they fall. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Say hello to my tiny friends !
rik jonno ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.24 10:01:00 - [14] /signed & signed
Tradesman Mcgee Caldari Derek Knows Us	Posted - 2007.10.24 10:06:00 - [15] Good rebalancing on the myrm, /unsigned. -------------------------- Research & Trade
Kappas. Galaxy Punks O X I D E	Posted - 2007.10.24 10:09:00 - [16] /Signed. Poor myrmi :(
Mandarth Maelstrom Crew	Posted - 2007.10.24 10:11:00 - [17] Balances out the Myrmidone which can outdamage Most Tier 1 BS /unsigned
Presidente Gallente Pirate Hunters Inc Exa Nation	Posted - 2007.10.24 10:14:00 - [18] /signed as president I had many situations where 5 drones were the absolute minimum. A good PvPer will try to take out a Myrm's drones first. Drones are the damage dealer. A Myrm without drones is dead. I had a hard fight against a 2003 Pilgrim pilot. He took out 4 drones and I could kill him in the last second. So say we all! Pres G +++ JOIN PAP +++
Presidente Gallente Pirate Hunters Inc Exa Nation	Posted - 2007.10.24 10:16:00 - [19] Originally by: Mandarth Balances out the Myrmidone which can outdamage Most Tier 1 BS /unsigned Just the ones who jump too early in a BS. A high skilled BS is near impossible to kill with a Myrm. Depends on the fittings and pilot's experience. Pres G +++ JOIN PAP +++
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr Do Or Die And Live Or Try	Posted - 2007.10.24 10:42:00 - [20] Originally by: Presidente Gallente /signed as president I had many situations where 5 drones were the absolute minimum. A good PvPer will try to take out a Myrm's drones first. Drones are the damage dealer. A Myrm without drones is dead. I had a hard fight against a 2003 Pilgrim pilot. He took out 4 drones and I could kill him in the last second. So say we all! Pres G You can still field 5 drones.

Spring Wind NorthWest Russian Corp United Legion	Posted - 2007.10.24 11:00:00 - [21] /signed
Narusegava Naruu	Posted - 2007.10.24 11:07:00 - [22] /SIDNED cause not_gallentian cant ever understand us.. its great (but not uber, like vaga) solo-pvp-ship and it'll be dead without 5xheavy
eded	Posted - 2007.10.24 11:46:00 - [23] /signed
Torperdoo	Posted - 2007.10.24 11:47:00 - [24] /signed
oniplE NED-Clan R i s e	Posted - 2007.10.24 11:50:00 - [25] well, goodbye ratting myrmidon..
The fed Minmatar Alfa Corporation	Posted - 2007.10.24 12:09:00 - [26] /signed
AshtarDJ Filthy Scum	Posted - 2007.10.24 12:22:00 - [27] NOT signed. With the new tier 2 BCs there were 2 overpowered boats: The drake (cuz of it's tank) and the myrm (cuz of the insane DPS while still being able to maintain a good tank). The drake got nerfed rly quickly, now it's time for the myrm. I like the new change.
Liman Rus Stella Polar	Posted - 2007.10.24 12:24:00 - [28] /signed unfortunately Мyrmidon with good-looking design going to trash.
Ronin Hybonashi Caldari Spectral Wolves	Posted - 2007.10.24 12:33:00 - [29] /signed The myrmidon is one of the few stable and usable tier 2 battle cruisers in the game, and I dont care what your stats are I have been killed by more hurricanes than myrmidons. Smart bomb's seem to always equal the playing field when it comes to drones.... ------------
Minith Jin Amarr Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.24 12:37:00 - [30] /Unsigned DPS is more balanced imo, gives me more reason to fly other ships (ie, why ishtar when I could get a myrm for 1/4 of the price and less skills). Also with 5 hammerhead IIs and your ~500 dps with blasters, you're opponent will be spending a lot of time working through 3 waves of them, which is time he's not shooting at you. Does sort of *****it for ratting though ------- Killing innocents since Jan 06

Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.10.24 12:44:00 - [31] Originally by: Minith Jin /Unsigned DPS is more balanced imo, gives me more reason to fly other ships. QFT. /NOT signed The Myrmidon is going to be just fine after the changes, and in-line with the rest of the Tier 2 BCs. I really don't get what's the moaning about, people killed other tier 2 BCs with medium drones and guns nicely even before the changes.
Rabajaba	Posted - 2007.10.24 12:45:00 - [32] /signed Ship has bonus to drones and don't have drones? O_o It is not fare.
Feng Schui Minmatar The Ninja Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.24 12:48:00 - [33] whats the problem? currently, on sisi, i'm running 3 groups of drones: 2 heavies, 2 medium, 1 light 5 mediums 5 lights other than that, I will add nothing to this thread.
The fed Minmatar Alfa Corporation	Posted - 2007.10.24 12:49:00 - [34] Originally by: Rabajaba /signed Ship has bonus to drones and don't have drones? O_o It is not fare. right, remove all turrets but drones must stay
Escuro Caldari Alfa Corporation	Posted - 2007.10.24 13:18:00 - [35] Originally by: The fed Originally by: Rabajaba /signed Ship has bonus to drones and don't have drones? O_o It is not fare. right, remove all turrets but drones must stay /unsigned BC shoudn't have BS sized warfare! We don't have a Domi with fighters, do we?
Sandzibarr A.W.M Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.10.24 13:37:00 - [36] Originally by: Escuro Originally by: The fed Originally by: Rabajaba /signed Ship has bonus to drones and don't have drones? O_o It is not fare. right, remove all turrets but drones must stay /unsigned BC shoudn't have BS sized warfare! We don't have a Domi with fighters, do we? its the final dps that seems to count in ccp's eyes.. so having 1 turret and 125Mb and a 375bay is the same roughly as the current 6 turret 75Mb SiSi itteration. Yet more appealing to all the people who spent time training up their drone skills for a dedicated BC sized drone boat. CCP has now really only left the ishtar and domi as dedicated drone boats. If you want BC turrets fly a f**king brutix.
Sirial Soulfly	Posted - 2007.10.24 13:45:00 - [37] Not signed, this whinage is what happens when a dev slips up and makes something too powerful from the beginning.
Razin The xDEATHx Squadron	Posted - 2007.10.24 13:53:00 - [38] /signed The Myrm's drone bandwidth needs to be 100. With the added change of no more instant drone shield repare in drone bay the total nerf is just too much. ...
Goth Dabbar	Posted - 2007.10.24 13:54:00 - [39] /signed
ViperLSS 97	Posted - 2007.10.24 13:58:00 - [40] /signed

Holy Cheater Red Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.24 14:11:00 - [41] Wondering if Eos is nerfed too....
Lucas Avignon	Posted - 2007.10.24 14:13:00 - [42] /signed ... this is crap
Holy Cheater Red Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.24 14:25:00 - [43] Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes /Unsinged Heavy drones are a large weapon supposed to be used by battleships. I don't see a harbinger capable of fitting 5 Mega Pulse Lasers, do you? Then, according to your logic, CCP should nerf my astarte cause it have a battleship-sized damage
Mifter Hogdido Amarr The 0ri Origin Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.24 14:30:00 - [44] Edited by: Mifter Hogdido on 24/10/2007 14:30:03 /signed - I don't fly Gallente at all but I've never had a problem killing one of these ships before. What is up with CCP trying to nerf all that is good in this game at once... its almost like their trying to drive half their community away. -----------------
Presidente Gallente Pirate Hunters Inc Exa Nation	Posted - 2007.10.24 14:57:00 - [45] Edited by: Presidente Gallente on 24/10/2007 15:05:08 /signed again A Myrm is like other ships just dangerous with great skills. Especially drone skills but also good tanking and gunnery skills and BC5 at the end. A Myrm can't usually take out a BS with ease if the BS pilot is a well skilled PvPer. We all need to understand that skills also make a big difference here. A nasty Myrm took loads of weeks to skill and without PvP experience it's waste of ISK. I don't see the real problem here. If a Myrm could take out a BS then the BS pilot was just wrong fitted, skilled or had lack of routine in PvP. I had a test fight against a passive Drake. My 466 DPS drones and Blaster II with Void M could not break his tank but he could take out my Ogre II with 2-3 hits easily. Even get them in and out had not help me. You just need to face the wrong target. There's always a bigger or better fitted fish. My presidential 2 ISK. Pres G +++ JOIN PAP +++
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2007.10.24 15:05:00 - [46] Originally by: Holy Cheater Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes /Unsinged Heavy drones are a large weapon supposed to be used by battleships. I don't see a harbinger capable of fitting 5 Mega Pulse Lasers, do you? Then, according to your logic, CCP should nerf my astarte cause it have a battleship-sized damage Astarte is a T2 battlecruiser specialized in damage dealing, so it hurts and it's what it's supposed to do. Myrmidon is a T1 battlecruiser, so it should not be able to do BS damage output, it has much more DPS than the other tier 2 BCs. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Say hello to my tiny friends !
Aomis Caldari Dakine Technologies	Posted - 2007.10.24 15:14:00 - [47] /signed
Syberbolt8 Gallente soni Corp Imperium Sonorumance	Posted - 2007.10.24 15:15:00 - [48] /Signed The myrmidon should be able to use 5 heavy drones, thats where all the damage for this ship is. Ok so the harby cant use a full set of heavys, well guess what, amarr arnt drone boat flyers, they are heavy tank and lasers, that being an example of course, each race has its own thing, if you want to nerf the myrmidons dmg then remove some highslots, or turret slots at least. Leave the drones alone, If you bothered to train for this ship at all then you trained drones not guns, simple as that. so take out the highslots, if you have to remove anything, but really no change should be made to the myrmidon, it is the only BC that has the ability to lose 75% of its dmg while still being in combat, and with the drone sheild recharge nerf means its now alot easier to lose you drones. You want to kill this ship as in now, then kill its drones, after that it wont matter that you have a full set of t2 blasters, faction ammo, and a good tank, bc the dmg wont be there to kill any bc. Leave the myrmidon alone. ------------------------------------ Soni-Corp Co-CEO Start a fire for a man, he stays warm for a day. Catch a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
Jagerin Gallente AB INITO VooDoo Technologies	Posted - 2007.10.24 15:48:00 - [49] /signed 100mbit will be enough
inza onoa Gallente GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.24 16:02:00 - [50] /signed Over the last 3 big patches, drones were nerfed greatly. From the beginning of my eve life i decided to choose drone as my main weapon, so from beginning till now i have been training drone skills.. guess whats the result? After each great patch i noticed how my drones did less dmg to same corp mates raven and against the same types of rats. Im now almost finished drone interface lvl5, but i guess i will not be amazed with the outcome because in some time probably they do as much dmg as when i had drone interface on lvl2. Sigh. First nerfing the drones, then nerfing the boats that uses drones primarely.

Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.10.24 16:29:00 - [51] Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes /Unsinged Heavy drones are a large weapon supposed to be used by battleships. I don't see a harbinger capable of fitting 5 Mega Pulse Lasers, do you? True, but then those 5 lasers cant be destrozed either. if fighting a myrm, fry its drones first. Have 2 or 3 light ships such as destroyers or cruisers on drone duty and blow them up. Then the myrm will be disarmed. If the myrm can continue to disgorge them then that could become a problem of balance but that depends on the implementation of the new drone bandwidth. Four years is long enough to leave the corp interface broken!
Dark Flare Caldari Corpus PCG The State	Posted - 2007.10.24 16:40:00 - [52] No, it did need a nerf. Now it'll be balanced.
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.10.24 16:42:00 - [53] Originally by: Dark Flare No, it did need a nerf. Now it'll be balanced. With bandwidth you might be right. The only defense to drone ships like the Myrm is to fry his drones. If he can keep spitting out ogre IIs then that is a serious problem. Four years is long enough to leave the corp interface broken!
Subakt Gallente Red Assault Brigades United Legion	Posted - 2007.10.24 16:44:00 - [54] Quote: PLZ Don't nerf /signed
Silver Morning Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.24 16:47:00 - [55] /signed
Zaphenatpanea	Posted - 2007.10.24 16:48:00 - [56] /signed
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.10.24 16:53:00 - [57] Its not much of a surprise that myrmidon pilots are signing this. Start arguing the merits, not silly petitions. Four years is long enough to leave the corp interface broken!
Ferocious FeAr Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.24 17:14:00 - [58] Edited by: Ferocious FeAr on 24/10/2007 17:16:32 Originally by: DasDizzy /signed people only whine because they dont know how to fight drone boats Not really. Killing drones is not brain surgery. Oh and for a t1 ship to be doing more damage then some command ships I see that as a problem. Not signed. Good game CCP, well done. Don't hate me, learn to love me
RisenPhoenix Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.10.24 17:15:00 - [59] not signed myrm can do waaay more dps than the other tier 2 battlecruisers the changes proposed are perfect ------------------------------------------------
Riebart Norith Gallente Interstellar Business Federation Tartarus Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.24 17:23:00 - [60] Originally by: Dark Flare No, it did need a nerf. Now it'll be balanced. Ouch, my brain. 1) Compare ranges The Myr has Optimal + Falloff less than Optimal of the med pulses. 2) It's DPS is DESTRUCTIBLE! Blow up Drones = no DPS. Live with it. Learn. Scoop/relaunch doens't fix them anymore, so fit smarties or primary the drones. 3) Blasters = High DPS. Everyone knows this. Why would this even be an issue? Why are you fitting blasters on it anyway? Why not fit on lasers or, better yet, projectiles? It's got no gun bonus, it relies on it's dr-...Oh yeah! No gun bonus! So, let's just completely nerf the rest of it's DPS. Adapt. Just because you got catered to for your inability to do so doesn't mean we can't be ***ed about it. I'm just glad I got through using it for level 3s while I could. Personally, reduce it to 4 heavy drones or a 7.5% (as opposed to 10%) per level, and I'd have been happy. 3 heavies is just too broken. Also, what is this about Heavies = BS weapons? Gee it looks like the Sentinel can use them....But that's a BS class weapon! Give me 1 heavy back. I never use 5 anyway. I'll adapt. Change my drone loadout, but I can't be the DPS powerhouse. I'll be relegated to cruiser/BCs and my role as a support ship is now broken. </rant> /so-very-very-signed ---------- [ 2006.10.09 03:03:14 ] (combat) The Forum Whiner strikes My Patience perfectly, wrecking for A Spite Filled Post of Doom*.

Kaileen Starsong Amarr Down In Flames	Posted - 2007.10.24 17:28:00 - [61] Edited by: Kaileen Starsong on 24/10/2007 17:30:47 Originally by: Riebart Norith 2) It's DPS is DESTRUCTIBLE! Blow up Drones = no DPS. Live with it. Learn. Scoop/relaunch doens't fix them anymore, so fit smarties or primary the drones. Meh, stop repeating this silly mantra already. You know what ecm/damps/TDs/neuts/transversal/range does to guns? Yeah, all this stuff makes them do less dps, ultimately down to 0. And you can't break lock on to you by rescooping, neither can you neutralize damp/ecm effects, etc. Ofc this is exaggerating a bit, but really, stop pretending that only drones have drawbacks. Edit. I'm kinda surprised how precisely CCP whacked only the source of a disbalance, that silly fotm-setup, not nerfing more in-line setups, neither did they gimp it as they could. Armor rep bonus for hybrid optimal anyone?
Syberbolt8 Gallente soni Corp Imperium Sonorumance	Posted - 2007.10.24 17:55:00 - [62] Its a drone boat, like I said, remove guns if your have to reduce the power grid, or remove turret hardpoints then do so but leave the drones as is. Im not saying dont reduce the dps im saying reduce it some other way, FACT, yes as is the myrmidon has the highest dps of any BC, and a good tank to boot, but if you want the dps balanced remove guns. ------------------------------------ Soni-Corp Co-CEO Start a fire for a man, he stays warm for a day. Catch a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
Ferocious FeAr Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.24 18:02:00 - [63] Edited by: Ferocious FeAr on 24/10/2007 18:03:20 Originally by: Syberbolt8 Its a drone boat, like I said, remove guns if your have to reduce the power grid, or remove turret hardpoints then do so but leave the drones as is. Im not saying dont reduce the dps im saying reduce it some other way, FACT, yes as is the myrmidon has the highest dps of any BC, and a good tank to boot, but if you want the dps balanced remove guns. Why in the hell would you remove guns? You know for sure that guns will give you DPS, its not like you can kill turrets. Drones on the other hand is micromanagement hell! Especially when you meet someone who is set on killing your drones. If anything this patch will help eliminate those who are worried about drones being the bulk of the DPS. I've fought against this ship so many times, this is more of a blessing to the pilots. Don't hate me, learn to love me
Holy Cheater Red Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.24 18:08:00 - [64] Edited by: Holy Cheater on 24/10/2007 18:12:51 Originally by: Eleana Tomelac Originally by: Holy Cheater Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes /Unsinged Heavy drones are a large weapon supposed to be used by battleships. I don't see a harbinger capable of fitting 5 Mega Pulse Lasers, do you? Then, according to your logic, CCP should nerf my astarte cause it have a battleship-sized damage Astarte is a T2 battlecruiser specialized in damage dealing, so it hurts and it's what it's supposed to do. Myrmidon is a T1 battlecruiser, so it should not be able to do BS damage output, it has much more DPS than the other tier 2 BCs. Damage is not the only one measure when comparing ships.. For example, Harbinger has a good shooting range in exchange with damage.. Myrmidon has to wait while drones/blasters will be close to its target... Also drones can be killed, turrets/missile launchers - no. Different ships, different playstyle.. If you don't like a harbinger and its playstyle, then you needed to learn another race, that's all.. Anyways, Myrmidon is a drone-boat, not a gunner, so I think it deserves 5 heavy drones..
Mataki Onimareu Gallente Dirty Deeds Corp.	Posted - 2007.10.24 18:14:00 - [65] /signed Atleast give it a better bonus to drones. Or maybe hybrid bonues.
Syberbolt8 Gallente soni Corp Imperium Sonorumance	Posted - 2007.10.24 18:19:00 - [66] Originally by: Ferocious FeAr Edited by: Ferocious FeAr on 24/10/2007 18:03:20 Originally by: Syberbolt8 Its a drone boat, like I said, remove guns if your have to reduce the power grid, or remove turret hardpoints then do so but leave the drones as is. Im not saying dont reduce the dps im saying reduce it some other way, FACT, yes as is the myrmidon has the highest dps of any BC, and a good tank to boot, but if you want the dps balanced remove guns. Why in the hell would you remove guns? You know for sure that guns will give you DPS, its not like you can kill turrets. Drones on the other hand is micromanagement hell! Especially when you meet someone who is set on killing your drones. If anything this patch will help eliminate those who are worried about drones being the bulk of the DPS. I've fought against this ship so many times, this is more of a blessing to the pilots. Because this is a DRONE boat, not a gunboat, If you wanted guns use a brutix, it still packs a lot of dps with guns, You wouldn't have to remove them all, but reduce the number that can be used, and as a drone boat pilot I would rather dish out great amounts of dps and have the risk of losing that dps, instead of dealing out good amounts of dps and knowing that i wont lose it but i prob wont break that harbys tank either. its the risk vs reward, i risk the loss of 3 mil isk drones each, for the reward of having great dps. as for it being micro management its really not that hard, if you dont like the micromanagement then dont fly it. I would also like to point out that I very rarely fit 5 heaves or sentry's but I would like the option should i choose to. ------------------------------------ Soni-Corp Co-CEO Start a fire for a man, he stays warm for a day. Catch a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
Ezekiel Sulastin Gallente Eve University	Posted - 2007.10.24 18:23:00 - [67] Maybe they should give drone boats a remote armor rep bonus for the reppers they now have to fit to be able to sustain extended engagements.
Transcendant One	Posted - 2007.10.24 18:31:00 - [68] /not signed. This isn't a nerf, it's rebalancing.
Ferocious FeAr Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.24 18:40:00 - [69] Edited by: Ferocious FeAr on 24/10/2007 18:41:08 I wouldn't really call something that has 125 m3 dronebay a 'droneboat' type ship. Maybe your perception of it is a bit skewed... It's going to be effective with the new changes, people just can't accept the fact that this ship was outperforming some command ships. That is a problem. Honestly you are the first person that I know that is willing to trade guaranteed 100% DPS from guns for drones. In fact, you gallente pilots are always complaining about how drone AI is 'stupid.' There should be no argument here. The ship tanked like a beast and was dishing out nasty damage, it was on par with the t2 variants. I'm glad its being adjusted. Don't hate me, learn to love me
Daedim	Posted - 2007.10.24 19:07:00 - [70] /signed

freedOm rus	Posted - 2007.10.24 19:11:00 - [71] /signed
freed0m rus	Posted - 2007.10.24 19:12:00 - [72] /signed
Holy Cheater Red Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.24 19:26:00 - [73] Edited by: Holy Cheater on 24/10/2007 19:26:26 Originally by: RisenPhoenix not signed myrm can do waaay more dps than the other tier 2 battlecruisers the changes proposed are perfect Vaga is the only cruiser/tech2-cruiser that flies like a ceptor. When it will be nerf... umm, rebalanced?
Danjira Ryuujin Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.24 20:26:00 - [74] Edited by: Danjira Ryuujin on 24/10/2007 20:27:22 Originally by: Riebart Norith Adapt... rabble rabble rabble I agree, you should adapt. You've been balanced. Deal with it. Unsigned. Amarr - Annoying the Eve Community since 2005
pipman	Posted - 2007.10.24 20:52:00 - [75] /signed EOS... i train it 1 year... now it is trash...
Tadehiro Kudzu Collective Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.10.24 21:01:00 - [76] /signed. I find it mild irritating that my vexor can match the damage of a myrmidon now but has far better nanoship capability. :s
Star Hunter Gallente RUS-1-UKR Red Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.24 21:44:00 - [77] /signed
Dark Flare Caldari Corpus PCG The State	Posted - 2007.10.24 21:57:00 - [78] Originally by: Holy Cheater Edited by: Holy Cheater on 24/10/2007 19:26:26 Originally by: RisenPhoenix not signed myrm can do waaay more dps than the other tier 2 battlecruisers the changes proposed are perfect Vaga is the only cruiser/tech2-cruiser that flies like a ceptor. When it will be nerf... umm, rebalanced? Erm, just because it's different doesn't make it needing a nerf. Vaga does rubbish dps. Having said that, and being a Vagabond pilot myself, I think speed needs re-assessing. But that's a different matter to this.
Holy Cheater Red Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.24 22:17:00 - [79] Originally by: Dark Flare Originally by: Holy Cheater Edited by: Holy Cheater on 24/10/2007 19:26:26 Originally by: RisenPhoenix not signed myrm can do waaay more dps than the other tier 2 battlecruisers the changes proposed are perfect Vaga is the only cruiser/tech2-cruiser that flies like a ceptor. When it will be nerf... umm, rebalanced? Erm, just because it's different doesn't make it needing a nerf. Exactly. Same for an Eos. Quote: Vaga does rubbish dps. More than a ceptor (hello to whiners which want all the damage ships nerfed to Ibis level:))
Aerandir Telrunya Gallente Bears Inc	Posted - 2007.10.24 22:48:00 - [80] /signed I thought it was supposed to be a drone boat?! Either take some grid/turret hard points and give it back its drones or drop all pretence, swap the drone bonus to a hybrid bonus and call it the brutix mk2. Nerf was needed but this is the wrong way to do it!

Syberbolt8 Gallente soni Corp Imperium Sonorumance	Posted - 2007.10.25 01:08:00 - [81] Originally by: Aerandir Telrunya /signed I thought it was supposed to be a drone boat?! Either take some grid/turret hard points and give it back its drones or drop all pretence, swap the drone bonus to a hybrid bonus and call it the brutix mk2. Nerf was needed but this is the wrong way to do it! QTF ------------------------------------ Soni-Corp Co-CEO Start a fire for a man, he stays warm for a day. Catch a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
Trent Nichols Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.25 02:30:00 - [82] /Signed Lets see how it fares after the drone shield nerf before nerfing it again. It can't carry spares.
Tral Kul	Posted - 2007.10.25 02:36:00 - [83] Originally by: Holy Cheater Originally by: Dark Flare Originally by: Holy Cheater Edited by: Holy Cheater on 24/10/2007 19:26:26 Originally by: RisenPhoenix not signed myrm can do waaay more dps than the other tier 2 battlecruisers the changes proposed are perfect Vaga is the only cruiser/tech2-cruiser that flies like a ceptor. When it will be nerf... umm, rebalanced? Erm, just because it's different doesn't make it needing a nerf. Exactly. Same for an Eos. Quote: Vaga does rubbish dps. More than a ceptor (hello to whiners which want all the damage ships nerfed to Ibis level:)) Nice way to only partially quote his answer, (if you had read it all you'd note that he said even being a vaga piliot he thinks speed needs looking into). Nice reading comprenshion skills. And the Eos is far from fine, when a fleet command can out dps some field commands (and even start to approach the lower end of BS dps) there's a probelm. I'm sorry you can't accept that but anyone not in love with the Eos (and even some that are) saw this coming.
Holy Cheater Red Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.25 03:46:00 - [84] Edited by: Holy Cheater on 25/10/2007 03:46:40 Originally by: Tral Kul Nice way to only partially quote his answer, (if you had read it all you'd note that he said even being a vaga piliot he thinks speed needs looking into). Nice reading comprenshion skills. Probably I didn't quote it cause I can't comment something on his last part of an answer? So, get lost. Quote: And the Eos is far from fine, when a fleet command can out dps some field commands (and even start to approach the lower end of BS dps) there's a probelm. I'm sorry you can't accept that but anyone not in love with the Eos (and even some that are) saw this coming. Well, regarding it like a fleet command makes it totally useless. If you tried to use Information Warfare links instead of teaching someone how to read"e you'd knew it's a total crap.
Pure Murder	Posted - 2007.10.25 03:52:00 - [85] No chance.
Pudnucker Boennerup Banden	Posted - 2007.10.25 04:42:00 - [86] Adapt. Myrmidon rebalancing was necessary. As for the Harbinger vs Myrmidon analogy, it's flawed but I'll leave someone else to point out exactly why as I CBF. Originally by: Copine Callmeknau PROJECTILE WEAPONS ARE CORPSE LAUNCHERS! LASERS ARE SOUL CANNONS!
Mes Ren No Trademark Notoriety Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.25 05:10:00 - [87] Originally by: Ferocious FeAr Edited by: Ferocious FeAr on 24/10/2007 18:41:08 I wouldn't really call something that has 125 m3 dronebay a 'droneboat' type ship. Maybe your perception of it is a bit skewed... It's going to be effective with the new changes, people just can't accept the fact that this ship was outperforming some command ships. That is a problem. Honestly you are the first person that I know that is willing to trade guaranteed 100% DPS from guns for drones. In fact, you gallente pilots are always complaining about how drone AI is 'stupid.' There should be no argument here. The ship tanked like a beast and was dishing out nasty damage, it was on par with the t2 variants. I'm glad its being adjusted. The reason they are willing to dump the guns is due to the fact that so few Myrm pilots were fitting guns to begin with, and when they did fit guns, it was an after thought. On the other hand, LOTS of Mrym pilots were fitting NOS, and now Neut/Nos combinations, along with a great tank, AND a bunch of midslots of for all the fun goodies. I have a Myrm build that does 530+ dps from an OPTIMAL of 65km+, can do 2,100+m/s (without snakes or gang bonuses), has damps, and uses t2 sentries with instant damage (also with the same optimal). I have another Mrym build that can snipe out to 132km (90km optimal) with Bouncer II's for 439DPS (and has very little problems hitting ANYTHING). This is just ridiculous. The balancing changes to Mrym are just what is needed. (And no, I never have any problems killing myrms, but has more to do with the fact that most myrm pilots have no idea how to build a good ship.) ________________________ No Trademark -- Mes Ren, Mes Builder -- -- CEO --
Lionel Redstar	Posted - 2007.10.25 05:36:00 - [88] /signed If you are fited for damage with medium hybrid & antimater, you will have short range and tracking a small ship with a decent orbit speed can be a pain. If you are fited for a decent range to keep tracking ok, your damage will be ****. The myrm is relaying on drones to have a decent range/damage balance. Without the help of 4-5 heavy drones it is just "a ship".
Exx Aequo Amarr	Posted - 2007.10.25 05:55:00 - [89] /signed its completly wrong, when small ishtar can have 5 heavy, but the racial tier2 BC myrmi is not
Dark Flare Caldari Corpus PCG The State	Posted - 2007.10.25 07:00:00 - [90] Originally by: Exx Aequo /signed its completly wrong, when small ishtar can have 5 heavy, but the racial tier2 BC myrmi is not What exactly is wrong with you? OMG MY HUGINN WEBS AT 40KM BUT MY SLEIPNIR DOESN'T, AND MY SLEIPNIR IS BIGGER SO IT SHOULD DO EVERYTHING ALL MY SMALLER SHIPS DO. Just no. It's a different ship, so you can't compare it like that.

Gmoorick R.u.S.H. Red Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.25 07:29:00 - [91] Edited by: Gmoorick on 25/10/2007 07:29:55 /sighned while i'm not a myrm flier I think 75 bandwidth is crap. Myrm get its high dps only in really close range and with all drones active. Strike 1 drone and it'll be killed or scooped for regen. Imho drake (less dps then close combat bc, but strikes up to 60km and got insane tank) and hurricane (both arti and close) are much better ships for gangs and myrm was better for solo and really small gangs. With 3 heavy drones (or 2 heavies 2 meds 1 light) it's a trash.
Rabajaba	Posted - 2007.10.25 07:48:00 - [92] Nerf Drake then. There is no BCs which can defeat even it's PASSIVE tank. Nerf vagabond, it's not normal ship. Not every interceptor can get it. Minmatar always has a speed like race feature. Caldari always has no tracking misslies and passive tank. Ammar always were good tanker with crazu beam lasers. And gallente always were best damage dialer in close range. It would be better, if you left 2-3 turret slots on myrmi.
Kibagami Jubey	Posted - 2007.10.25 09:00:00 - [93] /signet
Vort X EON Order Te-Ka	Posted - 2007.10.25 09:14:00 - [94] Edited by: Vort X on 25/10/2007 09:16:15 Myrm has decent dps only at 1km. Keep out of it's range and kill the ogres ffs, then it's a sitting duck. Overpowered eh? /signed
WAuter Gallente	Posted - 2007.10.25 09:47:00 - [95] Originally by: Eleana Tomelac Guys, are you just stating that the myrmidon should have more firepower than the ishtar? As in -ishtar gets 3*1.25 turrets and 5 heavy drones -myrmidon gets 6 turrets and 5 heavy drones This sounds quite wrong... Who talks about firepower? I usually fit 2 salvagers and 2 tractor beams! No change plz
Razor Jaxx Minmatar Cosmic Odyssey	Posted - 2007.10.25 09:50:00 - [96] Yeah, let's all create dumbass petitions with no constructive argumentation whatsoever. After all, blackmail seems to work just fine. So, bring back the following, or I will cancel my 279 accounts : - Dual oversized AB Mallers - 7/8 heat sink Gankageddons - Dual MWD Ravens - Tempest alphastrike with insta-tracking of small targets - 18 km/s Nanophoons (and all their offspring) - NosDomis - Old-school Gallente drone bays (15 ogre IIs YEAH) - Cap relays that don't nerf shield boosters - Cruise Kestrels (no I don't mean Manticores) & Rifters - Plated Thoraxes w/ oversized drone bays - 5sec-cycle pulse jamming (not chance-based) Thank you.
Gypsio III Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.25 10:01:00 - [97] Not signed. No single aspect of the Myrm made it overpowered, as such, not even the 1000 DPS possible. The problem is that it's arguably the best BC at doing anything. Best gank BC? Yes. Best tank BC? Passive shieldtanked with AC and drones, arguably. Best sniper BC? Yes. Best nano BC? Arguably so. A Hurricane may be faster, but drones get round the tracking problems. Best ewar BC? Five midslots for ewar, along with tank and gank. Yes. And don't blather on about short-range blasters, when everyone fits MWD and web, range is largely a non-issue.
Presidente Gallente Pirate Hunters Inc Exa Nation	Posted - 2007.10.25 11:49:00 - [98] Edited by: Presidente Gallente on 25/10/2007 11:50:24 Originally by: Gypsio III Not signed. No single aspect of the Myrm made it overpowered, as such, not even the 1000 DPS possible. The problem is that it's arguably the best BC at doing anything. Best gank BC? Yes. Best tank BC? Passive shieldtanked with AC and drones, arguably. Best sniper BC? Yes. Best nano BC? Arguably so. A Hurricane may be faster, but drones get round the tracking problems. Best ewar BC? Five midslots for ewar, along with tank and gank. Yes. And don't blather on about short-range blasters, when everyone fits MWD and web, range is largely a non-issue. You all forget one detail here: Drones are the damage. A Myrm without drones is dead. Period. It's all about experience, coolness and tactics in PvP. In most battles no one tried even to attack my drones. Big mistake. So do not wonder when Ogre II hit hard and take you out. A passive shield Myrm tanks great. That's correct but it can't tackle and run. So it's just a gang ship and it makes no sense to use it in 1v1. Overall again: this ship rocks with high skills trained over months. But it can't take out a similar skilled BS with ease. I would say depending on the focus on skills a Myrm will loose in most cases if the BS pilot is not stupid fitted. The real DPS power you will get with t2 skills, BC5, more drone skills to 5 like Drone Interfacing ... which takes ages. The drones have one weak point compared to guns. You can kill them. So I see really no frakking reason here why to nerf that ship. We have the old problem here: learn, adapt, SKILL [!!!] and train combat and do not +whine½ when a 30 Million SP Myrm pilot took down a 10 Million BS noob. My presidential pov as a long time Myrm pilot. I don't see really big advantages for that ship compared to other ships. Pres G +++ JOIN PAP +++
Lionel Redstar	Posted - 2007.10.25 12:15:00 - [99] And pls, stop comparing Myrm with the Ishtar. They are diferent ship types. + the Ishtar have great damage resists from being a T2 ship. Resists that can be reached on a myrm only using some (many) slots. And what good will be the drones bonuses for the myrm (Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 10% increase to drone hitpoints and damage dealt by drones) if you will gonna nerf exactly THE BONUSES ?
Katier	Posted - 2007.10.25 12:21:00 - [100] Originally by: Nuelon but harbinger dont has drone bonus... Nore does a harby ( annoyingly ) have spares. IMO the Harby should be 50/100 not 50/50.

Lillandra Peregrine	Posted - 2007.10.25 13:31:00 - [101] /signed c'mon ccp. the myrm's good as it is. frankly this 'nerf' to the myrm's drones using the new bandwidth feature is a bit underhanded and offensive. I thought it was supposed to 'improve' drone ships? Fix ships that are lacking with new features/improvements/tweaks. Don't nerf good ships!
MTX PT New European Regiment Pax Atlantis	Posted - 2007.10.25 13:31:00 - [102] /Signed That nerf it's too much.
rafaman New European Regiment Pax Atlantis	Posted - 2007.10.25 13:35:00 - [103] /Signed This nerf kills Myr as a decent BC. Please reconsider the bandwith.
Ankerr Feranniss	Posted - 2007.10.25 15:23:00 - [104] /signed
Andre Coeurl Gallente TOHA Heavy Industries Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.10.25 16:03:00 - [105] /signed! --- --- ---
Eka Maladay	Posted - 2007.10.25 16:22:00 - [106] /sighed
Dark Flare Caldari Corpus PCG The State	Posted - 2007.10.25 16:38:00 - [107] Originally by: Presidente Gallente Edited by: Presidente Gallente on 25/10/2007 11:50:24 Originally by: Gypsio III Not signed. No single aspect of the Myrm made it overpowered, as such, not even the 1000 DPS possible. The problem is that it's arguably the best BC at doing anything. Best gank BC? Yes. Best tank BC? Passive shieldtanked with AC and drones, arguably. Best sniper BC? Yes. Best nano BC? Arguably so. A Hurricane may be faster, but drones get round the tracking problems. Best ewar BC? Five midslots for ewar, along with tank and gank. Yes. And don't blather on about short-range blasters, when everyone fits MWD and web, range is largely a non-issue. You all forget one detail here: Drones are the damage. A Myrm without drones is dead. Period. It's all about experience, coolness and tactics in PvP. In most battles no one tried even to attack my drones. Big mistake. So do not wonder when Ogre II hit hard and take you out. A passive shield Myrm tanks great. That's correct but it can't tackle and run. So it's just a gang ship and it makes no sense to use it in 1v1. Overall again: this ship rocks with high skills trained over months. But it can't take out a similar skilled BS with ease. I would say depending on the focus on skills a Myrm will loose in most cases if the BS pilot is not stupid fitted. The real DPS power you will get with t2 skills, BC5, more drone skills to 5 like Drone Interfacing ... which takes ages. The drones have one weak point compared to guns. You can kill them. So I see really no frakking reason here why to nerf that ship. We have the old problem here: learn, adapt, SKILL [!!!] and train combat and do not +whine½ when a 30 Million SP Myrm pilot took down a 10 Million BS noob. My presidential pov as a long time Myrm pilot. I don't see really big advantages for that ship compared to other ships. Pres G So you're saying this nerf will be terrible because your BC won't be able to kill BS anymore?
Dzajic Gallente	Posted - 2007.10.25 16:53:00 - [108] Yeah, sure, in EFT, with all skills at 5, with implants and rigs, with T2 blasters with T2 ammo, and 5 bonused Ogre IIs, Myrm had way too much DPS. First, removal of drone shield recharge on scoop is a huge nerf to drones. And when fitting 5 Ogre IIs, Myrm has no spares. Second, all that damage is at 1500m distance, as thats the distance to scoop drones, out of that and those drones die, and DPS falls. But OK, all in all, with crazy skills and in gank mode, Myrm and Eos had a lot of DPS. But think about what you had done? 5 Hammerheads II do way to little damage.(For a drone specializing BC) And the crazy combo of 2H 2M and 1L drone will fly like bunch of headless flies. This cuts Myrm DPS too much. 80 or 95 and loosing two or three turret hardpoints (not highs) would have been enough.
Futher Bezluden Minmatar ORIGIN SYSTEMS Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.25 17:03:00 - [109] Edited by: Futher Bezluden on 25/10/2007 17:06:52 Originally by: Minith Jin /Unsigned DPS is more balanced imo, gives me more reason to fly other ships (ie, why ishtar when I could get a myrm for 1/4 of the price and less skills). Also with 5 hammerhead IIs and your ~500 dps with blasters, you're opponent will be spending a lot of time working through 3 waves of them, which is time he's not shooting at you. Does sort of ***it for ratting though /unsigned as well. Myrm isn't a BS, nor a HAC, it's a Tier 2 BC. It doesn't do as much damage as before, but the ship is built to last in an engagement. There are other setups for a Myrm than nos/neut with damage drones. Get creative. THUKKER -Be Paranoid Skeet** Skeet L33t
Cyberus Caldari Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.25 17:48:00 - [110] Originally by: Rabajaba Nerf Drake then. There is no BCs which can defeat even it's PASSIVE tank. Nerf vagabond, it's not normal ship. Not every interceptor can get it. Minmatar always has a speed like race feature. Caldari always has no tracking misslies and passive tank. Ammar always were good tanker with crazu beam lasers. And gallente always were best damage dialer in close range. It would be better, if you left 2-3 turret slots on myrmi. Well CCp just cut the cord from the server and burn your HQ to the ground. All problems solved :). Guys SHIPS are curently in testing so YOU CANT SAY its nerfed what you can do is give feedback with information what can be better and more looks like balanced for that tipe of ship, so dont start damn petitions before its even happence.

Acci'De	Posted - 2007.10.25 18:16:00 - [111] Please dont nerf Myrmidon. it'll be not a BC((
voidvim Minmatar Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.25 18:22:00 - [112] Myrmidon is getting nerf because it is used to gank in 0.5+ risk Vs reward is to good it's insurable relatively cheap needs very little fitting has high dps that concord has problems stoping CCP has made a lot of small changes over the years to make high sec ganking hard but still posible. If you want the Myrmidons not to be nerfed the community needs to suggest changes to stop it being abused for high sec ganking.
Dzajic Gallente	Posted - 2007.10.25 18:32:00 - [113] Suggestions? OK. Lower grid and CPU a bit, so it cant fit a rack of blasters or ACs. Remove one turret slot or two. Maybe remove one mid or low, but just maybe. Some of those things combined, but not all, could balance it, with leaving it with 125MB/s. Nerf Myrms shield so it cant passive tank like it can. Perhaps a moderate amount of above for 80-90MB/s bandwith, and all of above for 125? Regarding the "BS weapon on a BC". Domi has a large nice bay for replacements, and large hybrid bonus. So they are not making same damage. Now drones will be more easy to pop, so bay size means a lot. Drake in famous passive mega tank uses a lot of BS intended modules and no one argues. And when you're at it, change Eos completely. Drop it to 4 guns, remove drone bay size bonus, give 200 or 250 sized bay, and drone damage bonus. And 125MB/s bandwidth. Astarte is a blaster boat, now Eos is nothing. And change its warfare link bonuses so it can be usefull.
Valerax Orion Fourth Circle Total Comfort	Posted - 2007.10.25 18:39:00 - [114] Originally by: Mandarth Balances out the Myrmidone which can outdamage Most Tier 1 BS /unsigned If you have decent skills (And I mean bloody amazing tbf) a drake will maybe not out-damage but outlast a t1 battleship. I've been engaged in mine by even ravens and won simply because my tank was able to hold out against his cruises and my damage overcame his tank, and that was an '05 player. Principle with the myrm is much the same, enough skills and set up right, yeh it'll outdamage a T1BS.
Andreya Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.10.25 18:54:00 - [115] /unsigned myrm made the vex, ishtar, brutix, and even the domi when it came to cost pretty obsolete. now you will have a BC in line with the other BCs, this isnt a nerf. its a balance _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything.
Detur Digniori	Posted - 2007.10.25 21:33:00 - [116] \signed Myrm had only five heavy drone in the form of the basic weapon which could be lost having left the ship without protection and fire power, it was balace (use smart), is true droner ship. And now it is equal to the Arbitrator (see them with 150m dronbay and bonuses). It is validity? Brut On this background it looks more firepowered, and its tir2 BC ? If will make so Myrm will die as BC, being and so not especially popular (we compare quantity Drake, Hyric and Harb)
Detur Digniori	Posted - 2007.10.25 21:38:00 - [117] i think, one of high slot may be cuted..... but not drones
Detur Digniori	Posted - 2007.10.25 21:41:00 - [118] For validity I suggest to cut off on 2-highslots from all others tir2 BC.... Then it will be fair!
Tral Kul	Posted - 2007.10.25 22:18:00 - [119] Originally by: Rabajaba Nerf Drake then. There is no BCs which can defeat even it's PASSIVE tank. Nerf vagabond, it's not normal ship. Not every interceptor can get it. Minmatar always has a speed like race feature. Caldari always has no tracking misslies and passive tank. Ammar always were good tanker with crazu beam lasers. And gallente always were best damage dialer in close range. It would be better, if you left 2-3 turret slots on myrmi. Do you know what explosive radius is? How about explosive velocity? You should think before you open your mouth cause you just look stupid.
Obsidian Hawk FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.25 22:22:00 - [120] /signed We dont need the myrmidons nerfed, you all just need to learn to fight them. Its not that hard, especially if the guy only used 5 ogres. If you have drones too use your drones to shoot down the myrmidons and it's dps goes to crap. Or LEARN to use e-war people. A team of frigates with ewar can take down a myrmidon easily. Finally. WE HAD THIS DISCUSSION when revelations first came out, this is just a dead horse being beaten even more. If you dont remember, everyone fought for the 125 m¦ drone bay, there is no reason to change it now. Just learn to fight a drone ship.

F90OEX	Posted - 2007.10.25 22:27:00 - [121] Originally by: Rabajaba Nerf Drake then. There is no BCs which can defeat even it's PASSIVE tank. Nerf vagabond, it's not normal ship. Not every interceptor can get it. Minmatar always has a speed like race feature. Caldari always has no tracking misslies and passive tank. Ammar always were good tanker with crazu beam lasers. And gallente always were best damage dialer in close range. It would be better, if you left 2-3 turret slots on myrmi. You nub and have no idea what your talking about, Myrm shield tanks better then the drake.
Harkwyth Mist Caldari The Black Ops	Posted - 2007.10.25 22:50:00 - [122] Originally by: Holy Cheater upd: I just can't understand why all the ships should be the same and why you're whining about dps/tank stats and forgetting about that weapons have different strike-range/cap-use, you're also forgetting about that drones can be killed. They aren't forgetting, they are deliberately ommitting those facts as it might damage thier argument against the Myrmidon. PS i fly a Drake.
Nissa Cal	Posted - 2007.10.25 23:43:00 - [123] /signed
Arokan Manturi Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.10.25 23:48:00 - [124] I purely gallente specced and i unsign this. The changes to gallente drone ships are fine.
Azorius Nas Bulgarian Mafia Squad Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2007.10.25 23:53:00 - [125] signet
Swirler Shadows of the Dead	Posted - 2007.10.26 00:19:00 - [126] Do not change the Myrmidon, and mess it up. The ship is slow, can't fit any EW, is a big fat target, has no gun bonuses at all. The ship has more than enough short comings, as designed, to make up for where it specializes in - more drone capacity, gotten by sacrificing, slots an electronics. Leave it alone!
Maria Borman	Posted - 2007.10.26 01:07:00 - [127] /signed
Danjira Ryuujin Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.26 04:42:00 - [128] Originally by: Swirler Do not change the Myrmidon, and mess it up. The ship is slow, can't fit any EW, is a big fat target, has no gun bonuses at all. The ship has more than enough short comings, as designed, to make up for where it specializes in - more drone capacity, gotten by sacrificing, slots an electronics. Leave it alone! "has no gun bonuses at all" was the only true statement in your post. Amarr - Annoying the Eve Community since 2005
Angor The JORG Corporation Methods of Mayhem Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.26 05:28:00 - [129] /SIGNED. Eos Included! Wish i was head of CCP, design team your nerf bat rights would be REVOKED!!! _______________________________ [ 2007.06.07 21:07:22 ] FrankyWave > ransom me guys I am joining XElas !!!
Zolian	Posted - 2007.10.26 06:10:00 - [130] Originally by: Rabajaba Nerf Drake then. There is no BCs which can defeat even it's PASSIVE tank. Nerf vagabond, it's not normal ship. Not every interceptor can get it. Minmatar always has a speed like race feature. Caldari always has no tracking misslies and passive tank. Ammar always were good tanker with crazu beam lasers. And gallente always were best damage dialer in close range. It would be better, if you left 2-3 turret slots on myrmi. There's a whole lot of wrong in that post, but two posters have already nailed it. Tracking for missiles is exp radius/velocity. Myrm has a passive tank similar to the drake's while putting out way more damage (pre nerf). So... STFU!

Presidente Gallente Pirate Hunters Inc Exa Nation	Posted - 2007.10.26 07:37:00 - [131] Edited by: Presidente Gallente on 26/10/2007 07:46:24 Originally by: Dark Flare Originally by: Presidente Gallente Edited by: Presidente Gallente on 25/10/2007 11:50:24 Originally by: Gypsio III Not signed. No single aspect of the Myrm made it overpowered, as such, not even the 1000 DPS possible. The problem is that it's arguably the best BC at doing anything. Best gank BC? Yes. Best tank BC? Passive shieldtanked with AC and drones, arguably. Best sniper BC? Yes. Best nano BC? Arguably so. A Hurricane may be faster, but drones get round the tracking problems. Best ewar BC? Five midslots for ewar, along with tank and gank. Yes. And don't blather on about short-range blasters, when everyone fits MWD and web, range is largely a non-issue. You all forget one detail here: Drones are the damage. A Myrm without drones is dead. Period. It's all about experience, coolness and tactics in PvP. In most battles no one tried even to attack my drones. Big mistake. So do not wonder when Ogre II hit hard and take you out. A passive shield Myrm tanks great. That's correct but it can't tackle and run. So it's just a gang ship and it makes no sense to use it in 1v1. Overall again: this ship rocks with high skills trained over months. But it can't take out a similar skilled BS with ease. I would say depending on the focus on skills a Myrm will loose in most cases if the BS pilot is not stupid fitted. The real DPS power you will get with t2 skills, BC5, more drone skills to 5 like Drone Interfacing ... which takes ages. The drones have one weak point compared to guns. You can kill them. So I see really no frakking reason here why to nerf that ship. We have the old problem here: learn, adapt, SKILL [!!!] and train combat and do not +whine½ when a 30 Million SP Myrm pilot took down a 10 Million BS noob. My presidential pov as a long time Myrm pilot. I don't see really big advantages for that ship compared to other ships. Pres G So you're saying this nerf will be terrible because your BC won't be able to kill BS anymore? Did you not read or understand my post??? Again: a Myrm can't generally kill a BS. It's all about experience in PvP, fitting style and SKILLS. A similar skilled Domi with Drones and BS5 etc. will kill a Myrm with Drones and BC5. Ofc it's possible to kill a weak skilled or just bad fitted BS. And excactly those pilots will whine then on the forums when they died with 12 Million SP against a 25 Million SP pilot with awesome skills in drones, gunnery, tanking, navigation and BC5 ... using jamming. Those BS noobs just believe in their own defined fact that a BS MUST kill a BC because it's a bigger ship. I just can answer: you did not understand the concept of EVE and its skilling system. If I can easily kill all kind of BS like a brutal skilled Blasterthron then I would agree. But that's not possible or my oponent is doing something really wrong here or his client is lagged out. If I meet a BS with smartbombs and Neuts then I better run. Understood? Pres G +++ JOIN PAP +++
Vultureian Minmatar Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2007.10.26 08:35:00 - [132] signed i use the myrm for rattin and pvp but if they nerf the dronebay i wont be able to use it for ratting and then i'll cry and tell my mum.... so CCP, you have been warned
Bobbechk Spartan Industries Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.10.26 08:49:00 - [133] Edited by: Bobbechk on 26/10/2007 08:51:46 Battlecruiser = cruiser size ship = medium size weapons Medium Drones = medium size weapons and all this about not being able to rat, use a domi for god sake :P NUFF SAID
Aerandir Telrunya Gallente Bears Inc	Posted - 2007.10.26 09:21:00 - [134] Originally by: Bobbechk Edited by: Bobbechk on 26/10/2007 08:51:46 Battlecruiser = cruiser size ship = medium size weapons Medium Drones = medium size weapons Large Shield extender (and perhaps even more so 1600mm plate) = Battleship sized module So shall we ban cruisers/battlecruisers from using them too?
Noowb Gallente Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.10.26 09:58:00 - [135] /signed
foxden Russian Specnaz Red Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.26 11:03:00 - [136] /signed
Raneru Darwin With Attitude oooh Shiny	Posted - 2007.10.26 11:08:00 - [137] Can we compromise with being able to launch 4 heavy drones? Or stick with 5 drones but 3 turret slots?
Presidente Gallente Pirate Hunters Inc Exa Nation	Posted - 2007.10.26 11:33:00 - [138] Edited by: Presidente Gallente on 26/10/2007 11:37:42 Edited by: Presidente Gallente on 26/10/2007 11:35:32 Originally by: Raneru Can we compromise with being able to launch 4 heavy drones? Or stick with 5 drones but 3 turret slots? Well ... if CCP does we need to accept and adapt. But why should this nerf happen? Because too many low-skilled Noobs loose their early weak BS's to high skilled PvPer in Myrm's? The Myrm has still a very critical spot for both sides: drones. Take them out and this ship is dead. 6 Electron Blaster II without bonuses will not help then. A Myrm with Ogre II is in solo fights a close combat ship. Sending drones at a higer distance is a bad idea IF the engaged pilot will concentrate on them what most pilots surprisingly not do. If I would face all the time smart bombs I could also scream: nerf smart bombs because they kill my drones without giving them a chance to strike back. This all thinking is noob buuuushi**t! The Myrm is powerful indeed but just with t2 drones and some important skills to level 5 which takes a while to train. It's fair enough to have good drone dps when taking out the drones will cause loosing all that DPS what will not happen to gun boats. Of what kind of BS's you all are talking about a Myrm can take out easily? Don't forget skills, guys. SKILLS!!! That's one aspect in EVE which makes that game so great compared to the lame WOW Arcade style. That's one important point here beside PvP experience and controlling adrenaline by knowing how to fight with your skills and setups. I have seen vids where a Thorax killed a Myrm. EVE is not a shooter with rules of a +food chain½ like BC's can kill smaller ships only but not bigger one. That's pathetic. Learn to play and try EW tactics to get an advantage in combat. Pres G +++ JOIN PAP +++
Aleranie	Posted - 2007.10.26 11:35:00 - [139] People are going to whine about nerfing ecm drones now, since every myrm is going to have a set.
Phatntom	Posted - 2007.10.26 11:46:00 - [140] /signed

Leela Onios The Ends of Invention	Posted - 2007.10.26 13:45:00 - [141] /signed
Razin The xDEATHx Squadron	Posted - 2007.10.26 14:10:00 - [142] Now that the Myrm can't deploy 5 heavies, nor repair drone shields on scoop, it needs to have it's missing slot back. It's the least the devs can do (though I'd prefer the bandwidth go up to 100). ...
kattak4 Gallente	Posted - 2007.10.26 14:26:00 - [143] people are saying the myrm should be nerfed, because it could take out a poorly fitted BS. Okay great, thing is, it's been nerfed down to a slightly better tanked vexor.. So it shouldn't be balanced, it should be down right punished for once being a decent ship? vexor: 75Mb/s and 100m3 myrm: 75Mb/s and 125m3 why fly the myrm for 40mil a pop when you can fly a vex for 1/10 the price and field the same ammount of drones, with just a few less spares?
Daan Sai HAZCON Inc Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.10.26 14:27:00 - [144] As a primarily myrm pilot I'm sad about the reduction in DPS, sure, but I accept that. What I can't see is why the fear of ogre IIs means I can' field ogre 1s. They have a chance with bandwidth to do this better, give T2 drones different bandwidth requirements, not just copies of their base volume and the same as weaker T1 drones. For younger chars there is no real harm in letting them use 5 heavy T1s, if they want to run will few backup options, but the T2 drone DPS nerf hits low end players when they can least afford it! Also, at least make the myrm BW 80 Mbits - 2 heavy, 3 meds as an option. at 75, you can do 3 heavies, or 2 heavies, 2 meds and what ? 1 light? 80 won't break the bank and gives more flexibility, without blowing the dps budget. /unisgned with provisos....
Daan Sai HAZCON Inc Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.10.26 14:30:00 - [145] Originally by: kattak4 people are saying the myrm should be nerfed, because it could take out a poorly fitted BS. why fly the myrm for 40mil a pop when you can fly a vex for 1/10 the price and field the same ammount of drones, with just a few less spares? Myrm is the best looking ship in the game (ducks!) :) duh! And the myrm tank is great, shield or armor.
Syberbolt8 Gallente soni Corp Imperium Sonorumance	Posted - 2007.10.26 15:05:00 - [146] Originally by: Bobbechk Edited by: Bobbechk on 26/10/2007 08:51:46 Battlecruiser = cruiser size ship = medium size weapons Medium Drones = medium size weapons and all this about not being able to rat, use a domi for god sake :P NUFF SAID This kills me, the myrmidon is not a cruiser it is a battle cruiser, even the eve-o sites item database says "A class of powerful combat vessels midway between cruisers and battleships.", did you read that Midway Between, so it makes sense that it can fit larger items like the large shield extenders, and 1600 MM plate as mentioned, as well as using heavy drones, now while I'm not going to say the DPS on the Myrmidon with a very well skilled player isn't high, I will say that you have to have those high skill points to get this high dps, and its not like its hard to destroy that dps either, heavy drones are slow, very slow, most med size guns can hit them, with a web most large ship guns can hit them, plus med and light drones rip them to bits in no time. If there has to be a dps nerf then reduce the myrmidon to 3 or 4 turret slots. Also I agree with the guy that posted having different bandwidths for t1 and t2, thus allowing 5 t1 heavies, or 3 or 4 t2s. I don't normaly fit 5 heavys, but I would at least like to fit 4. You use a DOMI, I want to use my myrmidon. ------------------------------------ Soni-Corp Co-CEO Start a fire for a man, he stays warm for a day. Catch a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
Mila Prestoc	Posted - 2007.10.26 15:25:00 - [147] Edited by: Mila Prestoc on 26/10/2007 15:26:42 /not signed I look at it this way, if you were to pick 3 or 4 BC's to go hunting in, why not just pick 4 Myr's? Best damage, great tank (only drake can better), and 5 mids so space for EW. To the "you don't know how to fight drone boats", stop being so stupid, yes fighting a solo drone boat you can kite them and kill the drones, but if you do that at station/gate they will just jump out or dock as they can tank your poor ranged damage. And if they arn't used solo then kiting is much harder, if they get hold of something it will melt like no other BC can do. If you want to argue for anything, ask for a bit more drone bay for more spares, not for a damage increase like you all did back when the Myr was in testing for Rev (it didn't need it then and doesn't need it now). ------------------------- Originally by: "Lord Violent" EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
Syberbolt8 Gallente soni Corp Imperium Sonorumance	Posted - 2007.10.26 17:16:00 - [148] Originally by: Mila Prestoc Edited by: Mila Prestoc on 26/10/2007 15:26:42 /not signed I look at it this way, if you were to pick 3 or 4 BC's to go hunting in, why not just pick 4 Myr's? Best damage, great tank (only drake can better), and 5 mids so space for EW. To the "you don't know how to fight drone boats", stop being so stupid, yes fighting a solo drone boat you can kite them and kill the drones, but if you do that at station/gate they will just jump out or dock as they can tank your poor ranged damage. And if they arn't used solo then kiting is much harder, if they get hold of something it will melt like no other BC can do. If you want to argue for anything, ask for a bit more drone bay for more spares, not for a damage increase like you all did back when the Myr was in testing for Rev (it didn't need it then and doesn't need it now). First off im sorry, but anyone can sit on a station or gate and jump or dock, thats not a myrmidon feature. past that, the myrmidon is slow, yes it can in groups melt down ships like nothing, but it has to catch them first, its not the solopwner eveyone is making it out tobe, and the majority of its dmg is dealt only if you have very high skills, every other BC for the most part can be traind for and flown in a few months well at best. the myrmidon to get anywhere near the dmg your talking about has to have a few months in drone training alone, plus at least bc lvl 4 to be very effecitve. Then that dmg can be removed, its a risk the myrmidon pilot takes, so if you like BCs and your gallente speced then this is your options, 1 Brutix, gunboat, nice tank lots of dps on the gun side, drones are a plus but not a major part of the dps. or 2 myrmidon guns plan out suck on this ship, may as well put a nos domi setup on it bc the poor dmg output of the guns without a dmg bouns is a joke. so yes you can use 5 heavy drones that can be locked and killed, and with no extra space to fit extra. you kill them and the myrmidon is doing the same dmg as a frig if little better. This ship is fine as is. ------------------------------------ Soni-Corp Co-CEO Start a fire for a man, he stays warm for a day. Catch a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
Gypsio III Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.26 17:35:00 - [149] Originally by: Presidente Gallente Edited by: Presidente Gallente on 25/10/2007 11:50:24 Originally by: Gypsio III Not signed. No single aspect of the Myrm made it overpowered, as such, not even the 1000 DPS possible. The problem is that it's arguably the best BC at doing anything. Best gank BC? Yes. Best tank BC? Passive shieldtanked with AC and drones, arguably. Best sniper BC? Yes. Best nano BC? Arguably so. A Hurricane may be faster, but drones get round the tracking problems. Best ewar BC? Five midslots for ewar, along with tank and gank. Yes. And don't blather on about short-range blasters, when everyone fits MWD and web, range is largely a non-issue. You all forget one detail here: Drones are the damage. A Myrm without drones is dead. Period. It's all about experience, coolness and tactics in PvP. In most battles no one tried even to attack my drones. Big mistake. So do not wonder when Ogre II hit hard and take you out. A passive shield Myrm tanks great. That's correct but it can't tackle and run. So it's just a gang ship and it makes no sense to use it in 1v1. Overall again: this ship rocks with high skills trained over months. But it can't take out a similar skilled BS with ease. I would say depending on the focus on skills a Myrm will loose in most cases if the BS pilot is not stupid fitted. The real DPS power you will get with t2 skills, BC5, more drone skills to 5 like Drone Interfacing ... which takes ages. The drones have one weak point compared to guns. You can kill them. So I see really no frakking reason here why to nerf that ship. We have the old problem here: learn, adapt, SKILL [!!!] and train combat and do not +whine½ when a 30 Million SP Myrm pilot took down a 10 Million BS noob. My presidential pov as a long time Myrm pilot. I don't see really big advantages for that ship compared to other ships. Right. First of all, saying that a BC is not overpowered because it can't easily kill a BS is absolute Tottenham. It's supposed to be balanced with the other Tier 2 BCs. Secondly, guns, missiles and drones and balanced perfectly in their ability to be "killed" vs. their ability to kill. Guns are more powerful yet more vulnerable to ewar, than missiles. Drones can be shot yet are largely immune to ewar. The situation is fine. And that ignores the fact that drones can be replaced while you have spares, rendering the effects of shooting them minimal until spares are gone, and the critical fact of "drone-tanking" - whilst your enemy is shooting your drones he's not shooting you. Incidentally, this will be boosted by having replacement drones, and if your enemy knows you have replecement drones then he'll be less likely to shoot yours. A couple of days ago my passive-HP Drake was engaged by a Hurricane and Taranis, I had to choose whether to kill their drones, or try to kill the Cane before I ran out of HP. By the time I'd locked the drones the Cane was in armour, so I decided to ignore the drones and try to kill the Hurricane. It worked, and I got some nice T2 Hammerheads. If I'd shot the drones... maybe I'd have run out of HP first? "So it's [passive Myrm] just a gang ship and it makes no sense to use it in 1v1." This game is not balanced solely around 1v1, fortunately. "Drones are the damage." Please tell me that you actually have some guns fitted on your Myrm?
Syberbolt8 Gallente soni Corp Imperium Sonorumance	Posted - 2007.10.26 17:51:00 - [150] Originally by: Gypsio III Originally by: Presidente Gallente Edited by: Presidente Gallente on 25/10/2007 11:50:24 Originally by: Gypsio III Not signed. No single aspect of the Myrm made it overpowered, as such, not even the 1000 DPS possible. The problem is that it's arguably the best BC at doing anything. Best gank BC? Yes. Best tank BC? Passive shieldtanked with AC and drones, arguably. Best sniper BC? Yes. Best nano BC? Arguably so. A Hurricane may be faster, but drones get round the tracking problems. Best ewar BC? Five midslots for ewar, along with tank and gank. Yes. And don't blather on about short-range blasters, when everyone fits MWD and web, range is largely a non-issue. You all forget one detail here: Drones are the damage. A Myrm without drones is dead. Period. It's all about experience, coolness and tactics in PvP. In most battles no one tried even to attack my drones. Big mistake. So do not wonder when Ogre II hit hard and take you out. A passive shield Myrm tanks great. That's correct but it can't tackle and run. So it's just a gang ship and it makes no sense to use it in 1v1. Overall again: this ship rocks with high skills trained over months. But it can't take out a similar skilled BS with ease. I would say depending on the focus on skills a Myrm will loose in most cases if the BS pilot is not stupid fitted. The real DPS power you will get with t2 skills, BC5, more drone skills to 5 like Drone Interfacing ... which takes ages. The drones have one weak point compared to guns. You can kill them. So I see really no frakking reason here why to nerf that ship. We have the old problem here: learn, adapt, SKILL [!!!] and train combat and do not +whine½ when a 30 Million SP Myrm pilot took down a 10 Million BS noob. My presidential pov as a long time Myrm pilot. I don't see really big advantages for that ship compared to other ships. Right. First of all, saying that a BC is not overpowered because it can't easily kill a BS is absolute Tottenham. It's supposed to be balanced with the other Tier 2 BCs. Secondly, guns, missiles and drones and balanced perfectly in their ability to be "killed" vs. their ability to kill. Guns are more powerful yet more vulnerable to ewar, than missiles. Drones can be shot yet are largely immune to ewar. The situation is fine. And that ignores the fact that drones can be replaced while you have spares, rendering the effects of shooting them minimal until spares are gone, and the critical fact of "drone-tanking" - whilst your enemy is shooting your drones he's not shooting you. Incidentally, this will be boosted by having replacement drones, and if your enemy knows you have replecement drones then he'll be less likely to shoot yours. A couple of days ago my passive-HP Drake was engaged by a Hurricane and Taranis, I had to choose whether to kill their drones, or try to kill the Cane before I ran out of HP. By the time I'd locked the drones the Cane was in armour, so I decided to ignore the drones and try to kill the Hurricane. It worked, and I got some nice T2 Hammerheads. If I'd shot the drones... maybe I'd have run out of HP first? "So it's [passive Myrm] just a gang ship and it makes no sense to use it in 1v1." This game is not balanced solely around 1v1, fortunately. "Drones are the damage." Please tell me that you actually have some guns fitted on your Myrm? First off, if your worried about a cepter and a cane breaking your tank in a drake, then your tanking it wrong, 2nd off, normaly drones are the dmg for drone boats, kind of what they are ment for drone dmg, not gun dmg, yes most of the time I do fit guns, but there is no reason you shouldnt be able to fit a nos neut setup instead. This is a drone boat, its not supposed to rely on guns to fill its dmg role. ------------------------------------ Soni-Corp Co-CEO Start a fire for a man, he stays warm for a day. Catch a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life

Incantare Caldari Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.10.26 17:55:00 - [151] You don't get it. Passive regen tanked drakes are terrible pvp ships, they cannot tackle and have poor dps. He's talking about an hp tank.
Syberbolt8 Gallente soni Corp Imperium Sonorumance	Posted - 2007.10.26 17:58:00 - [152] Originally by: Incantare You don't get it. Passive regen tanked drakes are terrible pvp ships, they cannot tackle and have poor dps. He's talking about an hp tank. Your telling me some fool is sitting out there in a drake with an hp tank? where are you, i need to see if your red to me lol. Not the fourm for this so thats as much as im gonna talk about this. ------------------------------------ Soni-Corp Co-CEO Start a fire for a man, he stays warm for a day. Catch a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
Presidente Gallente Pirate Hunters Inc Exa Nation	Posted - 2007.10.26 18:02:00 - [153] Edited by: Presidente Gallente on 26/10/2007 18:03:20 "Drones are the damage." Please tell me that you actually have some guns fitted on your Myrm? Look ... Ogre II full max'ed out do 475dps. A full rack of Electron Blaster II with Void M max'ed out do 271dps. Overall all skills at level 5 for guns and drones give a volley of 586. Another setup [not gank] with a mix of Ion and Electron Blaster and more powergrid = less armor tanking capabilities can give a volley of 823 and overall DPS of 759. Loosing drones is 284dps at level 5. All that can't even break the tank of a passive Drake with good skills but the Drake can kill Ogre II with good missile skills in 2-3 hits. So tell me that you can kill just with guns left a BS?! Pres G +++ JOIN PAP +++
Incantare Caldari Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.10.26 18:10:00 - [154] Edited by: Incantare on 26/10/2007 18:10:28 Originally by: Syberbolt8 Your telling me some fool is sitting out there in a drake with an hp tank? where are you, i need to see if your red to me lol. Not the fourm for this so thats as much as im gonna talk about this. You're not going to kill anything with a full out passive tank, so might as well. The Drake can do damage too, you know, as hard to believe as that might be , when fitted with HAMs and BCUs.
Syberbolt8 Gallente soni Corp Imperium Sonorumance	Posted - 2007.10.26 18:25:00 - [155] Originally by: Incantare Edited by: Incantare on 26/10/2007 18:10:28 Originally by: Syberbolt8 Your telling me some fool is sitting out there in a drake with an hp tank? where are you, i need to see if your red to me lol. Not the fourm for this so thats as much as im gonna talk about this. You're not going to kill anything with a full out passive tank, so might as well. The Drake can do damage too, you know, as hard to believe as that might be , when fitted with HAMs and BCUs. Yea kindof always relyed on the t2 drones to offset the lack of dmg output by the 6 missles launchers. ------------------------------------ Soni-Corp Co-CEO Start a fire for a man, he stays warm for a day. Catch a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
Jovanovi Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.10.26 18:30:00 - [156] /unsigned No way a T1 Battlecruiser should be in line or even outpower a HAC.
Syberbolt8 Gallente soni Corp Imperium Sonorumance	Posted - 2007.10.26 18:44:00 - [157] Originally by: Jovanovi /unsigned No way a T1 Battlecruiser should be in line or even outpower a HAC. Hate to say it, but most of the time, a BC will win over a HAC, at least that has always been my experience, but maybe I always end up running into noob's in HACs ------------------------------------ Soni-Corp Co-CEO Start a fire for a man, he stays warm for a day. Catch a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
Aerandir Telrunya Gallente Bears Inc	Posted - 2007.10.26 18:50:00 - [158] Originally by: Jovanovi /unsigned No way a T1 Battlecruiser should be in line or even outpower a HAC. Huh? Ok, go EFT a Brutix and a Deimos then come back and say that again... A HACs main advantage over a BC is that its smaller and faster.
Syberbolt8 Gallente soni Corp Imperium Sonorumance	Posted - 2007.10.26 18:51:00 - [159] Originally by: Aerandir Telrunya Originally by: Jovanovi /unsigned No way a T1 Battlecruiser should be in line or even outpower a HAC. Huh? Ok, go EFT a Brutix and a Deimos then come back and say that again... A HACs main advantage over a BC is that its smaller and faster. QTF ------------------------------------ Soni-Corp Co-CEO Start a fire for a man, he stays warm for a day. Catch a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
cpt rhodes Caldari Silver Eagles Crusader Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.26 18:52:00 - [160] /signed

TomParad0x Caldari Silver Snake Enterprise Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.10.26 19:17:00 - [161] /signed
Mila Prestoc	Posted - 2007.10.26 19:44:00 - [162] Originally by: Syberbolt8 Originally by: Mila Prestoc ... First off im sorry, but anyone can sit on a station or gate and jump or dock, thats not a myrmidon feature. past that, the myrmidon is slow, yes it can in groups melt down ships like nothing, but it has to catch them first, its not the solopwner eveyone is making it out tobe, and the majority of its dmg is dealt only if you have very high skills, every other BC for the most part can be traind for and flown in a few months well at best. the myrmidon to get anywhere near the dmg your talking about has to have a few months in drone training alone, plus at least bc lvl 4 to be very effecitve. Then that dmg can be removed, its a risk the myrmidon pilot takes, so if you like BCs and your gallente speced then this is your options, 1 Brutix, gunboat, nice tank lots of dps on the gun side, drones are a plus but not a major part of the dps. or 2 myrmidon guns plan out suck on this ship, may as well put a nos domi setup on it bc the poor dmg output of the guns without a dmg bouns is a joke. so yes you can use 5 heavy drones that can be locked and killed, and with no extra space to fit extra. you kill them and the myrmidon is doing the same dmg as a frig if little better. This ship is fine as is. /me applauds as you totally miss the point. The point was quite simple, what are you meant to do to stop a Myr GETTING to the gate / station? Web them = Your webbed and pawned by supieror damage, tank and ew ability. Myr has same mass and speed as the Brutix, and I belive only the minnies are lighter in the BC class. So the difference in "catching things" isn't huge. What do you think the damage of the Hurricane or Harbinger or Brutix is without good skills? The hurricane needs its ROF and DMG bonus for a reason. What happens to turret ships damage if jammed/damped or TD'd? Yup those "months of training" are removed, just because it might take X training time to get the the max doesn't mean that max is acceptable otherwise the Typhoon should have the biggest damage of all the BS since it needs drones, missiles and gunnery maxed to reach its potential. LOL @ guns suck on Myr comment, no wonder you cry so much about your drones. Didn't you see the Nos nerf? "The ship is fine as it is"... because it sounds like your using a setup where your relying 100% on your drones with no backup drones. p.s. Paragraphs makes things easier to read FYI. ------------------------- Originally by: "Lord Violent" EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
Shereza	Posted - 2007.10.26 19:58:00 - [163] Quote: You nub and have no idea what your talking about, Myrm shield tanks better then the drake. Um, how? Quote: The ship is slow, can't fit any EW, And yet I hear people talking about how they routinely do short-range combat so they can do a scoop up their drones and relaunch them on the target as soon as they take damage and that one of the PvP problems with the myrmidon is that it can fit a nasty (armor) tank, do nasty DPS, and still fit EW. _____________________________ I think a lot of people are missing something. "Worried that their hot-shot pilots would burn brightly in their eagerness to engage the enemy, the Federation Navy created a ship that encourages caution* over foolhardiness. A hardier version of its counterpart, the Myrmidon is a ship designed to persist in battle. It's numerous medium and high slots allow it to slowly bulldoze its way through the opposition, while it's massive drone space ensures that no enemy* is left unscathed." * - Rushing into extremely short range to do as much DPS as possible with blasters or ACs and heavy drones does not strike me as caution. - Slowly bulldoze... Seems to me that mediums and guns qualify as slowly if they can eventually break a ship's tank as opposed to breaking it twice as fast with heavy drones, though heavies do feel more like "slow bulldozers" than mediums. * - It's kind of hard to shoot down a lot of frigates with heavy drones. Seems like the myrmidon could use some light drones to do that, yet a lot, if not most, of the myrmidon pilots have been using what, 5 heavies? Not much room left for light drones. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that while the myrmidon's a great ship (I fly it and like it) the way people are currently using it does not fit with the apparent/suggested intent of the designers, the same problem that's apparently going on with carriers, and something needs to change on that part.
Sorum Daemoth Insidious Existence Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.26 20:14:00 - [164] Edited by: Sorum Daemoth on 26/10/2007 20:15:22 Originally by: Eleana Tomelac Edited by: Eleana Tomelac on 24/10/2007 10:00:52 Taking a harbinger in EFT with all skills at 5 : 435 DPS on heavy beam laser II with multifrequency and 5 hammerhead II (needs rigs to fit, also suffers some cap problems) and the tank is rated as 234 (2 mar II) Taking a myrmidon 639 DPS on 250mm railgun II with antimatter and 5 ogre II (needs exactlty same rigs as prophecy, and has very little cap problems) and the tank is rated as 322 (2 MAR II) So, should the myrmidon be so clearly superior to the harbinger? With 5 med drones (hammerhead II), and same fit, it has 401 DPS which sounds fine as it tanks more and has less cap problems. With 75 m3 of drones in space (2 ogre II, 2 hammerhead II, 1 hobgob II) if goes up to 479 DPS which is STILL more than the harbinger... Really, nothing to worry about, the myrmidon is still much better, it just can have its drones destroyed, but as you will have larger dronebay than the bandwidth, you'll replace them as they fall. PS : Tried with the hurricane too : 371 DPS (but great alpha), 5 light drones and 720 II with EMP. 241 for tank. It won't even reach the myrmidon's firepower on autocannons... Sooo... it just sounds like the myrmidon is still the best (I don't know how to fit a drake, I'm crap at shield tank ideas, so I didn't do it) conformist....... why do you want everything to be the same? like, really? why cant eve have any variation, if everything does the same as the other that would just be bland. ok so now i can fly gallante BC, lets try amarr, o wait, its all the same **, im bored i quit <<< that is WoW style. btw signed, dont nerf myrms, it has a drone dmg bonus unlike the eos, and is a combat ship not a support ship so it should keep its drones. And even so, I dont fly em but eos shouldnt lose its heavys either...... *You just got WTF EXIT ganked!*
Syriano Keldon	Posted - 2007.10.26 20:18:00 - [165] /signed
necranomicon	Posted - 2007.10.26 20:19:00 - [166] /signed
Syberbolt8 Gallente soni Corp Imperium Sonorumance	Posted - 2007.10.26 20:26:00 - [167] Originally by: Mila Prestoc /me applauds as you totally miss the point. The point was quite simple, what are you meant to do to stop a Myr GETTING to the gate / station? Web them = Your webbed and pawned by supieror damage, tank and ew ability. Myr has same mass and speed as the Brutix, and I belive only the minnies are lighter in the BC class. So the difference in "catching things" isn't huge. What do you think the damage of the Hurricane or Harbinger or Brutix is without good skills? The hurricane needs its ROF and DMG bonus for a reason. What happens to turret ships damage if jammed/damped or TD'd? Yup those "months of training" are removed, just because it might take X training time to get the the max doesn't mean that max is acceptable otherwise the Typhoon should have the biggest damage of all the BS since it needs drones, missiles and gunnery maxed to reach its potential. LOL @ guns suck on Myr comment, no wonder you cry so much about your drones. Didn't you see the Nos nerf? "The ship is fine as it is"... because it sounds like your using a setup where your relying 100% on your drones with no backup drones. p.s. Paragraphs makes things easier to read FYI. Look, first off, I'm not an English major and have very poor writing skills, so Ill apologize for my poor writing structure. That being said, Your point is mute, there is no stopping you from webbing that myrmidon, if you want to beat it, you have to attack its drones, simple as that. If they are using heavies then you will notice it. So they wont be sending out more drones after you kill what they have on them. Then they are toast, even with great gun skills your not looking at much dps without a poor tank. The simple fact that this ship has no gun bonus means it relies on the drone's for its dmg. Now I think the ship is fine as it is, it has to be attacked from a range instead of 0m, and a warp disrupter. Plus its not like you need to go vs this ship solo anyway. This game is based on group pvp so with support to wont matter how much dps this thing can put out, if you have a good FC then it will be call pirmary if its just a BC gang, to kill its dmg, and ew will be all over it. Like I said the ship is fine as is. But if you insist that the dps needs to be lower then take out some turret slots. the drones are what this ship is all about. ------------------------------------ Soni-Corp Co-CEO Start a fire for a man, he stays warm for a day. Catch a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
Aerandir Telrunya Gallente Bears Inc	Posted - 2007.10.26 20:43:00 - [168] Originally by: Mila Prestoc /me applauds as you totally miss the point. The point was quite simple, what are you meant to do to stop a Myr GETTING to the gate / station? Web them = Your webbed and pawned by supieror damage, tank and ew ability. TBH I'm failing to see your argument... how is the Myr meant to do to stop you getting to the gate / station? Your webbed = Web them See it works in reverse! As for the superior firepower, I think that really is the key point of the debate - If you were to take out his drones (which considering the drone shield recharge nerf will be a lot easier) then his DPS drops significantly and in a lot of cases to zero. Now I AGREE that the Myrmidon needed some of its DPS taking away but as I've previously said they should have taken its guns (or grid/cpu to fit guns)... or just swap the drone bonus to a hybrid one and call it the brutix mk2. If your going to reduce a ships DPS surely taking its SECONDAY dps is a more sensible approach. On your drake would you rather lose your drone bay or a couple of missile hardpoints? Or on a hurricane should they take a turret or a launcher hardpoint?
Mila Prestoc	Posted - 2007.10.26 20:47:00 - [169] Originally by: Syberbolt8 Originally by: Mila Prestoc ... Look, first off, I'm not an English major and have very poor writing skills, so Ill apologize for my poor writing structure. That being said, Your point is mute, there is no stopping you from webbing that myrmidon, if you want to beat it, you have to attack its drones, simple as that. If they are using heavies then you will notice it. So they wont be sending out more drones after you kill what they have on them. Then they are toast, even with great gun skills your not looking at much dps without a poor tank. The simple fact that this ship has no gun bonus means it relies on the drone's for its dmg. Now I think the ship is fine as it is, it has to be attacked from a range instead of 0m, and a warp disrupter. Plus its not like you need to go vs this ship solo anyway. This game is based on group pvp so with support to wont matter how much dps this thing can put out, if you have a good FC then it will be call pirmary if its just a BC gang, to kill its dmg, and ew will be all over it. Like I said the ship is fine as is. But if you insist that the dps needs to be lower then take out some turret slots. the drones are what this ship is all about. So, not only do I have to shoot the drones, I have to web the Myr... so what stopping the Myr getting right on top of me and scooping the drones? All the time i'm shooting drones i'm not shooting there ship, they don't have to tank, all the time they're shooting me which I have to tank. I thought the ship was fine before when it had less turrets and drone space back when it was being tested, but people wern't happy so it got changed, then they still wern't happy so spammed whine topics yet again and got it boosted. When tux back then said he didn't want people using 5 heavy drones (100m3 drone bay at the time) he was "talked" into it by all the gallente pilots saying "no one will use 5 heavies, we just want more spare drones" well that was wrong, but now you've got no choice, you got what you asked for. ------------------------- Originally by: "Lord Violent" EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
Maestro Ulv Phaze-9	Posted - 2007.10.26 20:59:00 - [170] As a droner for the last several years and a full on lover of drone boats I can state my honest opinion that a BC should NEVER have access to 5 heavy drones. /unsigned by a droner I'm not bored, I'm merely in the Queue.

Aerandir Telrunya Gallente Bears Inc	Posted - 2007.10.26 21:03:00 - [171] Originally by: Mila Prestoc So, not only do I have to shoot the drones, I have to web the Myr... ok - welcome to pvp! Generally yes you have to web the ship too (oh and warpscramble it - or it'll warp away), Originally by: Mila Prestoc so what stopping the Myr getting right on top of me and scooping the drones? Well if you have him webbed (and assuming that your moving at the same/faster speed) he won't. Originally by: Mila Prestoc All the time i'm shooting drones i'm not shooting there ship, they don't have to tank, all the time they're shooting me which I have to tank. But if you shoot his drones he will recall them (unless he wants to lose them) and when he does that he's not shooting you (or at least if he is it's with a greatly reduced DPS) and so you don't have to tank whilst he does (or you could really screw him over and set your drones on his whilst still shooting him Originally by: Mila Prestoc I thought the ship was fine before when it had less turrets and drone space back when it was being tested, but people wern't happy so it got changed, then they still wern't happy so spammed whine topics yet again and got it boosted. When tux back then said he didn't want people using 5 heavy drones (100m3 drone bay at the time) he was "talked" into it by all the gallente pilots saying "no one will use 5 heavies, we just want more spare drones" well that was wrong, but now you've got no choice, you got what you asked for. 100m3 = 4 heavys... well its better than what we're getting now :-( and if 5 heavys wasn't intended then why not say... 120m3? 75m3 is a joke :-( TBH I think having your DPS made destroyable and non replaceable makes up for the extra DPS you get from fielding the heavys
Gypsio III Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.26 21:04:00 - [172] Originally by: Syberbolt8 Originally by: Incantare You don't get it. Passive regen tanked drakes are terrible pvp ships, they cannot tackle and have poor dps. He's talking about an hp tank. Your telling me some fool is sitting out there in a drake with an hp tank? where are you, i need to see if your red to me lol. Not the fourm for this so thats as much as im gonna talk about this. Oh dear. Another unimaginative fool. It can't have been that bad, it blew the Hurricane away before I hit half shield, and it seemed a fairly standard Cane fit, if a bit short on T2. Personally, 591 DPS and 62000 HP sounds alright to me, and that's the cheap fit, but what do I know, I solo pvp in a Drake...
Phrixus Zephyr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.26 21:12:00 - [173] Edited by: Phrixus Zephyr on 26/10/2007 21:16:18 Originally by: Eleana Tomelac Guys, are you just stating that the myrmidon should have more firepower than the ishtar? As in -ishtar gets 31.25 turrets and 5 heavy drones -myrmidon gets 6 turrets and 5 heavy drones This sounds quite wrong... Brutix does more damage than a Deimos.... soo, your point? Edit: Im not fussed btw. I dont even fly the thing. It's just every single nerf/no-nerf thread is filled with people who don't know what they're talking about and cant be arsed to take the 5 minutes to clue themselves up on the subject. Originally by:* consider telos ..then we had a fight and he was so dead and then I like became champion of eve and then ccp gave me a medal and a t-shirt and asked me to go out with him on a date to mcD'
Plekto Priory Of The Lemon R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.26 21:12:00 - [174] Wow - same thread, different month. The Myrmidon is fine as it is, because it is silly easy to pop drones. Larges are either too slow to hit a tiny ship or your ship is large enough to easily deal with them. Go test this. Fit your ship with one large smartbomb and one large t2 drone. Dies very quickly, doesn't it? Absent its drones, the Myrm is pretty mediocre. the real problem, IMO, is that drones need to have a way to get more of them out. People use 5 larges because they can't use more mediums or smalls anymore.(used to be TEN max with the right ships) Bring back ten drones and it'll be a lot better compromise. Say, Myrm has 80-100m3 drone space. Drake would be increased to 30m3 or 3 mediums. Well, you can fit 3-4 larges or 8-10 mediums. Problem is, mediums die easy, which is a good tradeoff.
Aerandir Telrunya Gallente Bears Inc	Posted - 2007.10.26 21:19:00 - [175] Edited by: Aerandir Telrunya on 26/10/2007 21:20:07 ? Say what now... Quote: So the Myr, the ship that wants to be in web range has to web the ship that doesn't want to be in web range? Yes thats correct... Quote: While to do the same thing the ship that doesn't want to go into web range has to do so to stop the ship that wants to go into web range. Yes I can see why that would be bad for the Myr. Rolling Eyes Well no - if you don't want to be webrange then you should aim to go faster than the other guy (not hard against a myrmidon). If on the other hand you are keeping your distance and or running for the gate/station then webbing him will mean he won't gets on top of you as quickly. Simmilaraly if he is running for the gate/station then webbing him will slow him down allowing you more time to kill him. As for the hurrican - ok, that I didn't know, although comparativly we are loosing more than 1 turret hard point.
Magister Herm	Posted - 2007.10.26 21:46:00 - [176] Edited by: Magister Herm on 26/10/2007 21:49:00 Edited by: Magister Herm on 26/10/2007 21:46:48 Originally by: Dark Flare No, it did need a nerf. Now it'll be balanced. Ok.. i don't have any idea of how a good harbinger fit looks like, but why not like that? (ok, the neutralizer is a joke ;) I would generally just count half or 2/3 of the Drone's DPS when comparing DPS, since 1) Drones fly a lot of the time, as they need to engage the target, or to change to another one, are coming back,.. So the difference between theoretical and real dps is wider than with other weapons. 2) ATM, Drones are still very dumb. It doesn't hurt much in 1vs1, but whenever they change targets, it does. We'll have to see if that new "focus fire"-switch will help. (btw: why can't i change that behaviour on a per-drone(group) basis?) 3) ok that's been said a lot: Drones can be killed. Alltogether the difference between now and new is as follows: now: I can choose lower drone damage with a very high refill amount I can choose medium drone damage with a good refill amount I can choose extremely high drone damage with 0 refill amount new: I can choose lower drone damage with a very high refill amount I can choose medium drone damage with a bit better as before refill amount Keep in mind that you have to dock to put new drones into your bay. I just think that reducing versatility isn't a good thing if you want to keep people happy. If the total dps (taking into account that maybe 2/3 rating above, or with fixing the things which are the reason for that factor) are too high: reduce them. But don't do that at the cost of versatility. So: /signed
Mila Prestoc	Posted - 2007.10.26 22:01:00 - [177] Edited by: Mila Prestoc on 26/10/2007 22:02:08 Originally by: Aerandir Telrunya Originally by: Mila Prestoc So, not only do I have to shoot the drones, I have to web the Myr... ok - welcome to pvp! Generally yes you have to web the ship too (oh and warpscramble it - or it'll warp away), Originally by: Mila Prestoc so what stopping the Myr getting right on top of me and scooping the drones? Well if you have him webbed (and assuming that your moving at the same/faster speed) he won't. Originally by: Mila Prestoc All the time i'm shooting drones i'm not shooting there ship, they don't have to tank, all the time they're shooting me which I have to tank. But if you shoot his drones he will recall them (unless he wants to lose them) and when he does that he's not shooting you (or at least if he is it's with a greatly reduced DPS) and so you don't have to tank whilst he does (or you could really screw him over and set your drones on his whilst still shooting him Originally by: Mila Prestoc I thought the ship was fine before when it had less turrets and drone space back when it was being tested, but people wern't happy so it got changed, then they still wern't happy so spammed whine topics yet again and got it boosted. When tux back then said he didn't want people using 5 heavy drones (100m3 drone bay at the time) he was "talked" into it by all the gallente pilots saying "no one will use 5 heavies, we just want more spare drones" well that was wrong, but now you've got no choice, you got what you asked for. 100m3 = 4 heavys... well its better than what we're getting now :-( and if 5 heavys wasn't intended then why not say... 120m3? 75m3 is a joke :-( TBH I think having your DPS made destroyable and non replaceable makes up for the extra DPS you get from fielding the heavys I know how to PvP thank you, was fighting Myr's as soon as they came out, and even with the 7 turret Hurricane going into web range was suicidal. Ever tried shooting unwebbed drones that can be scooped because you've not got enough slots to web both the ship and drone to keep them appart? I even tried double web setups to prevent that. Sure, he recalls it, deploys it again... lots of micromanagement for everyone, nevermind if he's used the extra mid of the Myr on EW that can cause loss of lock, delayed locking or bad tracking of guns to make shooting the drones even harder. 120 instead of 125? 4 heavies + med (with spare med) isn't that much. Everyone is still forgetting the Myrs tank, only the Proph (lol rubbish damage) and Drake better its tank, and neither are quicker/lighter or with EW slots. Yet everyone is saying having the best damage with no damage mods aswell as great tank is acceptable because the damage can be reduced, put TD on a turret ship losses damage all the time till fight is over (hit quality and even hitting issues), put ECM on a target and it loses (on average) 20% of its damage (like scooping and redeploying loss). Sure drones have disadvantages, but don't make out like drones don't have advantages over other weapon systems to. This was what drones users asked for to get the drone bay boosted, this is what you've got, talk about hard to please, always wanting a bit more. ------------------------- Originally by: "Lord Violent" EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
Jinmie	Posted - 2007.10.26 22:40:00 - [178] Edited by: Jinmie on 26/10/2007 22:40:54 /signed save the mymidon. drone are destroyed so easily. unless you make them untargetable and smartbombed only it will always suck to be a drone ship.
Aerandir Telrunya Gallente Bears Inc	Posted - 2007.10.26 22:47:00 - [179] Originally by: Mila Prestoc I know how to PvP thank you, was fighting Myr's as soon as they came out, and even with the 7 turret Hurricane going into web range was suicidal. Ever tried shooting unwebbed drones that can be scooped because you've not got enough slots to web both the ship and drone to keep them appart? I even tried double web setups to prevent that. Right ok, so your in a Hurricane, and you come across a myrmidon, you orbit him as say 17km (which as your faster than him shouldn't be a problem). As he is a close range ship and can't catch you he either runs for the gate or sends out his drones. If he runs for the gate, well thats life. Sometimes you win sometimes you lose. Often in 1v1 pvp on gates/stations if one party wants to run then he stands a good chance of getting away (which is why most pvp happens in gangs). If on the other hand he sends his ogres after you then you web them and pop them (or just use your drones to pop his). Sure, he recalls them, deploys it again (which now WON'T recharge the shields) but if you even pop one of his drones his DPS is reduced. Pop 2 and he's really in trouble, 3... well you get the idea It seems to me that you want your hurricane to be able to solo kill a myrmidon, but if you were the myrmidon pilot, how would you kill a hurricane you can't catch? And anyway how would the hurricane fare against a drake? If the drake is setup with a strong passive tank then you won't be able to kill that either. As for the Myrs tank, well thats another issue not related to the drones but TBH if its slow and has got destroyable DPS it needs a good tank! And yes drones have their advantages, thats why we use them but to my mind the fact they can be destroyed (and in the case of 5x ogres on a myrm can't be replaced mid battle) more than makes up for that. As for asking for replacements - I never did and previous to this I didn't see any 'boost myrm' threads - the only threads I saw was nerf ones which TBH I agreed with, but I feel this nerf has been done the wrong way. The fact they couldn't be replaced was the trade off you paid for having awesome dps. Otherwise why would anyone want an ishtar or domi?
Mila Prestoc	Posted - 2007.10.26 23:15:00 - [180] Originally by: Aerandir Telrunya Originally by: Mila Prestoc ... Right ok, so your in a Hurricane, and you come across a myrmidon, you orbit him as say 17km (which as your faster than him shouldn't be a problem). As he is a close range ship and can't catch you he either runs for the gate or sends out his drones. If he runs for the gate, well thats life. Sometimes you win sometimes you lose. Often in 1v1 pvp on gates/stations if one party wants to run then he stands a good chance of getting away (which is why most pvp happens in gangs). If on the other hand he sends his ogres after you then you web them and pop them (or just use your drones to pop his). Sure, he recalls them, deploys it again (which now WON'T recharge the shields) but if you even pop one of his drones his DPS is reduced. Pop 2 and he's really in trouble, 3... well you get the idea It seems to me that you want your hurricane to be able to solo kill a myrmidon, but if you were the myrmidon pilot, how would you kill a hurricane you can't catch? And anyway how would the hurricane fare against a drake? If the drake is setup with a strong passive tank then you won't be able to kill that either. As for the Myrs tank, well thats another issue not related to the drones but TBH if its slow and has got destroyable DPS it needs a good tank! And yes drones have their advantages, thats why we use them but to my mind the fact they can be destroyed (and in the case of 5x ogres on a myrm can't be replaced mid battle) more than makes up for that. As for asking for replacements - I never did and previous to this I didn't see any 'boost myrm' threads - the only threads I saw was nerf ones which TBH I agreed with, but I feel this nerf has been done the wrong way. The fact they couldn't be replaced was the trade off you paid for having awesome dps. Otherwise why would anyone want an ishtar or domi? Exactly my point about orbiting out of web range so you can seperate drone from ship to kill it, for some reason all Myr pilots take this 1v1 situation as normal. All it takes is 1 ship capable of catching the quicker ship for the Myr to get in range to kill it, because no othee BC could deal so much damage and tank so much. Going in web range was suicide against a char with good skills, even if well skilled yourself, things will be a bit more realistic in damage dealing. If the issue is they really are to easy to kill, especially with no more instant shield recharge by scoop and deploy, ask for more HP or more spare drones. 5 Med drones (not even the max dps you can get with 75m3) still gives 200+ DPS, plus an easy 150-250 DPS from turrets with no damage mods, thats 350-450 DPS, with no damage mods, the 3rd best BC tank and can fit EW. Thats still a lot of upsides. ------------------------- Originally by: "Lord Violent" EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.

Aerandir Telrunya Gallente Bears Inc	Posted - 2007.10.26 23:49:00 - [181] Edited by: Aerandir Telrunya on 26/10/2007 23:51:15 Originally by: Mila Prestoc Exactly my point about orbiting out of web range so you can seperate drone from ship to kill it, for some reason all Myr pilots take this 1v1 situation as normal. All it takes is 1 ship capable of catching the quicker ship for the Myr to get in range to kill it, because no othee BC could deal so much damage and tank so much. Going in web range was suicide against a char with good skills, even if well skilled yourself, things will be a bit more realistic in damage dealing. If the issue is they really are to easy to kill, especially with no more instant shield recharge by scoop and deploy, ask for more HP or more spare drones. 5 Med drones (not even the max dps you can get with 75m3) still gives 200+ DPS, plus an easy 150-250 DPS from turrets with no damage mods, thats 350-450 DPS, with no damage mods, the 3rd best BC tank and can fit EW. Thats still a lot of upsides. So your complaining that a 2v1 (tackling ship + gank ship) will kill your Hurricane... yes... but the same applies the otherway around. One ship to tackle the myrmidon and one to kill drones and gank it... still not seeing the problem. In a small gang (4-5 ships) where your after DPS and the chance of the drones coming under fire is smaller then yes its a good dps ship. But then so are a lot of ships! And so what if it has a niche? Surely its allowed to be the best at something? And as for using 5 medium drones for my DPS... then why would I choose this ship over the brutix for providing gang DPS? Or even the 2 ogres, 1 hammerhead and 1 light the vexor is faster and cheaper!
Mila Prestoc	Posted - 2007.10.27 02:34:00 - [182] Originally by: Aerandir Telrunya Edited by: Aerandir Telrunya on 27/10/2007 00:11:10 Edited by: Aerandir Telrunya on 26/10/2007 23:51:15 Originally by: Mila Prestoc .... So your complaining that a 2v1 (tackling ship + gank ship) will kill your Hurricane... yes... but the same applies the otherway around. One ship to tackle the myrmidon and one to kill drones and gank it... still not seeing the problem. In a small gang (4-5 ships) where your after DPS and the chance of the drones coming under fire is smaller then yes its a good dps ship. But then so are a lot of ships! And so what if it has a niche? Surely its allowed to be the best at something? And as for using 5 medium drones for my DPS... then why would I choose this ship over the brutix for providing gang DPS? Or even the 2 ogres, 2 hammerhead and 1 light the vexor is faster and cheaper! Please don't put words in my mouth, I was saying everyone says "just kite and kill the drones, your quicker and lighter so can do it", my point was as soon as you get more than 1v1 suddenly things arn't so simple, never said can should beat a Myr in a outnumbered (even skilled) fight which would obviously be a stupid arguement. So thats 1v1s away from stations and gates that kiting is possible... "so are a lot of ships"... no, it was clearly the best overall, now nothing will be. "best at something"... so without damage mods you want it to have better damage than tank bonused ships using damage mods? along with top 3 tank, easiest to fit with EW and in top half of speed/agility of BC's, cos thats what it was. 5 hammers, 5 valks, 5 warriors, pick the best vs the target, and have spares was my point, along with the extra mid (or 2) over other (none shield tanking) BC's, and 6 lows with a tank bonus would still be a powerful ship, you've got more potential dps than even this. Why use it over a Brutix... extra low along with more HP so more tank and extra mid for EW maybe? Vexor this Vexor that... Myr's got spare drones, along with 2 more mids, 2 more lows, tank bonus and more effective number of turrets. They are completely differnet ships so what they can field the same drones, they can't do the same total damage! I think i've made my points unless anything else has been misunderstood, will let others discuss there views, which is always better than /signed with no arguements. ------------------------- Originally by: "Lord Violent" EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
Banzai OdiN Caldari Species 5618 R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.27 11:38:00 - [183] Still no dev feedback ?
Xenomorphea Gallente	Posted - 2007.10.27 11:48:00 - [184] Edited by: Xenomorphea on 27/10/2007 11:48:36 /signed Bandwidth on Myrmidon should be at least 100 Mbit. While I can accept it may not have the same bandwidth as a Dominix, it should also not have the same bandwidth as a Vexor, it is a BC drone-boat, ffs! (and does not even have a hybrid weapon bonus like the Vexor) And for all those who whine about it's "overpowerness": its main weapon is destroyable, with missiles you can take out heavy drones really fast. And with the new shield regen nerf, even more so. Once the drones are killed, a Myrm is just a useless tank. If you think a Myrm is overpowered, you probably do not know how to fight drone boats. 2 options: - leave bandwidth at 125 Mbit, and just remove 2 turret hardpoints (max 4 turrets). - set bandwidth to 100 Mbit, and leave all 6 turrets. Cheers, Xeno
Aerandir Telrunya Gallente Bears Inc	Posted - 2007.10.27 12:12:00 - [185] Quote: So thats 1v1s away from stations and gates that kiting is possible... Ok - So you admit that in this situation a hurricane will 'beat' a myrmidon... Ok so thats one situation where its certainly not overpowered. Quote: "so are a lot of ships"... no, it was clearly the best overall, now nothing will be. I disagree, well sorta - If the fleet has to disengage then the chances are the myrmidon will lose its dps for the next fight (unless he can find a friendly station to dock at). Similarly if he loses an ogre or 2 - I don't call that the best! A hurricane can keep on going, its not like he can leave his guns behind (assuming he's brought enough ammo). Ok - so basically what you have a problem with is that at the moment the myrmidon can put out (due to is ogres) a much higher DPS than any other BC against a slow moving target whilst maintaining a good tank on the condition no one shoots his drones. If this is the case then you must also have the same problem with the ishtar, perhaps even more so as it can actually replace its drones. I think you are only seeing the myrmidon in this one situation. The one where people arn't shooting its ogres, which TBH although it happens, 1/2 the time it shouldn't do. Now no one said it shouldn't be nerfed - I just feel they are doing it the wrong way. There is now little to choose from between the brutix and the myrmidon even for the dedicated drone user! As for the vexor, ok that was meant a little tongue in cheek but as drone boats go, should a drone cruiser (drones being the primary dps) be able to field the same as a drone battlecruiser? You've made your points but I still don't agree with them, particularly the one about it not being allowed to be the best dps dealer in a situation where its drones arn't being shot at. If thats the case perhaps we should nerf the drake for clearly being able to tank the best (say in a situation where ewar and actual DPS wasn't an issue) or the the hurricane where speed is a requirement (but tank and DPS wasn't such an issue). As far as I can see there is always a ship which is better than the others at a certain role/in a certain situation, thats just the way eve works. I guess it comes down to how big an issue is it that you can lose your DPS. I say it's a huge drawback, you don't think it is. We both agree that the DPS needs to be reduced, you (assuming you actually fly a myrmidon) would rather keep the turrets and lose the heavy drones (and the option of very high very vulnerable dps) where as I like the fact you have an option of having different setups (including the very cool sniping one) and would be happier if we lost some guns to drop the dps. I guess I just like the option to do different things with my ships and be able to think out of the box when it comes to setups for them, I guess you don't :-( ps. as a primary drone user I also like having the option of a battle crusier sized drone boat, I guess I will have to (as people keep saying) go back to my domi (or the ishtar).
Lillandra Peregrine	Posted - 2007.10.28 06:49:00 - [186] i just hope the feedback in this thread is sufficient for ccp to take notice. myrmi pilots have the same tactical issues to deal with as any gallente drone pilot - distance and a fragile weapon system. (yes those drones that ppl seem to worry about so much are actually quite easy to destroy). high risk and high gain. just as a snaked-up minmatar pilot doesn't engage at pointblank range and knows when to run, so should anyone facing a dangerous drone boat. (yes the myrm is dangerous, no doubt about that, but so are many other ships in the right situation). the whole general 'point' of gallente is drones and close up unmatchable damage. it keeps with the flavor and threat of this whole race's ships. 'balancing' drones for all other races i can understand to a certain extent but taking away the key features that make these kinds of gallente ships so fun to fly is unwarranted. also a point on ship flexibility - I really hope we're not going in a WOW type direction where you have very 'fixed' character classes. Leave room for flexibility and the creativity of the players to come up with powerful ideas and configurations. EVE has always been a unique game which stood on it's own strengths - it's the only mmorpg i play because of these reasons.
A Sinner Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.28 10:00:00 - [187] /signed
Rabid Sheep Anqara Expeditions The OSS	Posted - 2007.10.28 10:30:00 - [188] NOT signed! Myrm as it is = too much. I am Paper, Nerf Scissors, Rock is fine..
1Evildude Gallente Kingdom of Kador	Posted - 2007.10.28 10:50:00 - [189] /Signed
Denga Vulture The X-Trading Company Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.10.28 10:58:00 - [190] /signed and to all the whiners about the "overpowered" myrmi ...every skilled player can kill easily the heavies of the myrmi ... learn to play the game and stop crying - All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me - Pure drone user... give us a mini carrier and faction Dominix please

Aerandir Telrunya Gallente Bears Inc	Posted - 2007.10.28 12:47:00 - [191] Originally by: Rabid Sheep NOT signed! Myrm as it is = too much. Yes, but do you think this is the correct way to nerf it? Or do you just want it nerfed?
Mush Morton Caldari Wolf Echelon Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2007.10.28 22:28:00 - [192] Edited by: Mush Morton on 28/10/2007 22:31:51 /unsigned The myrm is able to push too much damage in its current state. I personally have the skills and capabilities to take out drones, but many players do not. For them, it's not easy to follow the prescribed methods of "fighting" drone boats. Not only this, but the ew/energy tricks drone boats are able to get away with for pvp is shameful. Nerf the bloody thing to the stone age. ----------------- Molon Labe!
kattak4 Gallente	Posted - 2007.10.28 23:08:00 - [193] Edited by: kattak4 on 28/10/2007 23:08:37 In reality i think that because people who fail to shoot drones on drone ships are so very vocal in their whining that ccp will not reverse the gallente/drone nerf. This means: Amarr nerf? check. Gallente nerf? check. We'll be seeing either the caldari or minmatar pilots pleading for their ships come the next expansion, the question is which will it be? caldari or minmatar? Of course at that time we'll get to say "Lol, (insert ship) was too overpowered anyway, there was no way to combat it! It needed a rebalance" I've already posted here with my opinion but i thought i would add that. There is no reason the Myrm should be a larger more expensive vexor.
Ishicko Intakino	Posted - 2007.10.29 07:43:00 - [194] /signed Don't nerf it! Myrm is my first combat ship! I used to ride a hauler.
mythrindar	Posted - 2007.10.29 09:30:00 - [195] /signed, ccp put away your nerf bat FFS!!!!!!!!!!!
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.29 09:52:00 - [196] /Unsigned, Why should gallente get a super BC that can gank and tank at the same time while everybody else has 1 tanking BC that does minimal damage(ferox, prophecy, cyclone) and 1 gank BC that doesnt tank so well(ok so drake is the exception, Caldari gets 2 tanking BCs). Myrmidon has a tanking bonus, it needs to be brought inline with other tanking BCs like the ferox, drake, prophecy, and claymore. Use a brutix if you want dps. signature removed - please email us to find out why (include a link to the image URL) - Jacques([email protected])
Ladis Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.29 10:52:00 - [197] /Signed The nerf should be ajusted.
Presidente Gallente Pirate Hunters Inc Exa Nation	Posted - 2007.10.29 11:03:00 - [198] Edited by: Presidente Gallente on 29/10/2007 11:05:53 Originally by: Mush Morton Edited by: Mush Morton on 28/10/2007 22:31:51 /unsigned The myrm is able to push too much damage in its current state. I personally have the skills and capabilities to take out drones, but many players do not. For them, it's not easy to follow the prescribed methods of "fighting" drone boats. Not only this, but the ew/energy tricks drone boats are able to get away with for pvp is shameful. Nerf the bloody thing to the stone age. A low skilled Myrm is easy to kill. A high skilled Myrm to BC5 and Ogre II near maxed out is indeed not an easy target for noobs. BUT again: I had just one fight so far against a Pilgrim where the pilot concentrated on my drones and this is where the Myrm pilot ends up in serious trouble. If someone tries to take out your drones you need to stay in close combat anyway and your dps is distracted by take them in and eject them all the time. But it seems that many pilots fight drone ships wrong. They have not set up an overview for that or just concentrate on the ship itself in hope to get it down fast. Facing a Myrm pilot with Ogre II means: give the drones a hard time and the Myrm pilot is under stress to watch the drone overview, combat field, mods and local all the time. Gun pilots don't have that kind of additional multi-tasking. I have the impression that only long time Myrm pilots can really discuss here. I fly the Myrm from the beginning and it's not that kind of overpowered ship where you engage everything. If we have to talk about a compromise than nerf it to 4 Ogre in combat. Because a nerf to 3 Ogre is switching the whole situation to opposite. CCP should learn not to listen to low-skilled whiners all the time. For those whiners I just recommend: get PvP experience and more skills ... get some more backup and a Myrm is dead for sure if you are not totally disorganized. Pres G +++ JOIN PAP +++
Lukas Rox Galactic Nightmare Helghast.	Posted - 2007.10.29 12:51:00 - [199] /signed, BUT give it 100mbits instead of 75mbits (not 125 either) since drones are the first target in PvP (thats what I do anyway) myrm ends up with the lowest dmg output of all t2 BC once its drones are toasted. 4 Ogres are still able to give you nice ratting capability while you don't have as much power as lets say Ishtar, which is in line with other races. --- Visit in game for nice items links http://eve.interkam.pl/eveships
Digital Anarchist Minmatar	Posted - 2007.10.29 15:03:00 - [200] /signed ------------------------ This space for rent

Korran Minare Gallente Spaced Cowboys	Posted - 2007.10.29 15:08:00 - [201] /signed
Kublai Khan Caldari TAOSP Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.29 15:21:00 - [202] Edited by: Kublai Khan on 29/10/2007 15:25:49 Originally by: Syberbolt8 Originally by: Incantare You don't get it. Passive regen tanked drakes are terrible pvp ships, they cannot tackle and have poor dps. He's talking about an hp tank. Your telling me some fool is sitting out there in a drake with an hp tank? where are you, i need to see if your red to me lol. Not the fourm for this so thats as much as im gonna talk about this. only a fool (and selfish one) will bring a regen tank in gang pvp...
Ynos Fukse	Posted - 2007.10.29 15:52:00 - [203] Edited by: Ynos Fukse on 29/10/2007 15:54:58 I don't sign here becose i'm gallente and all the other races noobs will scream: "AWWWWwwww he want he's UBER DUPER myrmidon UNTUCHED!" Train for the god damn ships.. face a myr and then say it is uber. (of cource i have all lvl5 needs for myr, maybe those are making me uber.. not the ship itself god damn it) . later edit: Originally by: Ronin Hybonashi /signed The myrmidon is one of the few stable and usable tier 2 battle cruisers in the game, and I dont care what your stats are I have been killed by more hurricanes than myrmidons. Smart bomb's seem to always equal the playing field when it comes to drones.... NERF THE HURRICANE!!!! .
Altaica Amur	Posted - 2007.10.29 17:38:00 - [204] Quote: (besides a drake CANNOT! tank 800+ dps, for that long(and 1-2 neut/nos will kill it in 2sec, since no cap=no res= dead drake and lost X billion isk (if it should be able to tank 800+ dps.) Errrr, no. Passive tanking means that even with active hardeners Nos/Neut doesn't destroy you that easily because they have very very low cap use. Furthermore if someone has a full set of nos/neut on(which is what would be required to take down BC cap quickly) they're not doing that much damage against your poor poor drake so it's unresisted tank 549 or so on top skills will probably be taking that damage fine and for the paranoid you can just put passive hardners on instead and tank 800 dps instead of the 864 you get with active hardners ( and a PDS instead of a shield relay for cap production ). BTW such a setup won't even cost you 1 billion isk, more like ~100 mil which for something that will be completely passively tanking many megathrons, is a good deal. As for the Myr, I think that it would be a shame to kill one of the most interesting to fit ships in the game by removing nearly 50% of it's damage which would probably go on to be the biggest nerf in EVE history, especially when combined with the changes to scooping. There might still be issues with the Myr being overpowered after the changes to drones but we don't know that yet and especially when considering how changing scooping will negatively affect the survivability of drones the entire replacement thing will probably drive people away from the 5 heavies setup anyways, I know I'm already on the fence with moving to a set of mediums and replacements instead. I think what a lot of people are forgetting is that the destructibility of drones is a permenant thing, drones don't come out of being destroyed like you come out of ECM and with heavy setups on the myr you never get that DPS back and even if you have replacements it costs money. I've often run into PvP situations where drones and the ships that launch them are manipulated by speedier or more ranged setups resulting in the destruction of their drones or worse the isolation of their ship entirely. I'm not saying that the myr dosen't have it's issues in balancing, but I do think we should wait and see what the changes to drones are going to do to it before hitting it that hard with the nerf bat.
Krissie Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.29 17:43:00 - [205] IMPORTANT NEWS JUST LEAKED BY CCP: They are now not paid by the hour, but by the nerf, well, we are ****** now guys, cya back in WOW!
agram tabris Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.10.29 20:32:00 - [206] /signed for all accounts i have.. no sig.
Xenomorphea Gallente	Posted - 2007.10.31 20:03:00 - [207] /bump Suggested options: - leave bandwidth at 125 Mbit, and just remove 2 turret hardpoints (max 4 turrets). - set bandwidth to 100 Mbit, and leave all 6 turrets. Still no reaction from CCP? Cheers, Xeno
kattak4 Gallente	Posted - 2007.10.31 20:09:00 - [208] Originally by: Krissie IMPORTANT NEWS JUST LEAKED BY CCP: They are now not paid by the hour, but by the nerf, well, we are ****** now guys, cya back in WOW! Why not wait till march? By then they will have "rebalanced" everything to the point where the game is a chore. Also Age of Conan comes out march
Hober Mallov	Posted - 2007.11.01 16:42:00 - [209] /signed
Hestia Millie	Posted - 2007.11.02 07:26:00 - [210] /signed "scoop-deploy" nerf = myrm w/ 5 heavies nerf no need to nerf twice imho :\ sry for alt posting

lin ta	Posted - 2007.11.02 09:33:00 - [211] Originally by: AshtarDJ NOT signed. With the new tier 2 BCs there were 2 overpowered boats: The drake (cuz of it's tank) and the myrm (cuz of the insane DPS while still being able to maintain a good tank). The drake got nerfed rly quickly, now it's time for the myrm. I like the new change. not signed actually the cane was the first, removed a turret. with 7 still wasn't at the dps of the current myrm. and it wasn't just the drake that got the hp reduction, all bc did.
Entilzah Valen 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.11.02 12:58:00 - [212] Edited by: Entilzah Valen on 02/11/2007 13:01:09 Who remembers 10 Heavy Drone Thoraxes? I bet half of you don't. Anyone? Hmmm? /unsigned. Wanna rat? Get a damn battleship.
LUH 3471	Posted - 2007.11.02 13:00:00 - [213] /signed dont nerf the myrmidon
WrathOfOprah Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.02 13:00:00 - [214] /signed
deadmeet	Posted - 2007.11.02 13:34:00 - [215] All myrmidon flyer will sign.... All non myrmidon flyer will unsign... So it's an useless post...
Ricky1989 Caldari Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.02 15:10:00 - [216] /notsigned. Love Ricky1989. "I Can Make A Mess Like Nobody's Business"
Arushia Nova Labs Empire Research	Posted - 2007.11.02 19:14:00 - [217] Please, give it a 4th heavy, otherwise it's just an overpriced vexor.
Jagdgewehr Layered Orbital Logistics and Industrial Supply	Posted - 2007.11.02 22:27:00 - [218] If the issue with the Myrmidon is that it does too much gank'n'tank with 5 heavies, 6 turrets, and the ability to field a massive, bonused tank... then, well... Reduce its turret slots/grid so that you have to make the choice between gank and tank? Given that tier 2 BCs are supposed to be gank-y, why not remove the tanking bonus, too? No clue what to replace it with, but why in the world would you make a battlecruiser that's supposed to be THE drone boat for its size... and turn it into something a Vexor can out-DPS? The drones are the reason to fly it, so reduce other areas while letting it maintain the drones. As someone else said, the shield recharge nerf is enough to make the drones easier to kill. Same logic applies for the Eos, really. But everyone just screams "5 HEAVY DRONES OH GOD I CAN'T POSSIBLY HANDLE THAT MUCH DAMAGE! " and... welp.
Luthair StoneDog Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2007.11.03 00:59:00 - [219] Originally by: deadmeet All myrmidon flyer will sign.... All non myrmidon flyer will unsign... So it's an useless post... /unsigned I'm a very highly skilled drone *****... The Ishtar should be better than the Myrm.. and let's face it, the Myrm has not been killed by this, just brought more in line with her pricetag.
Tral Kul	Posted - 2007.11.03 01:57:00 - [220] Originally by: Entilzah Valen Edited by: Entilzah Valen on 02/11/2007 13:01:09 Who remembers 10 Heavy Drone Thoraxes? I bet half of you don't. Anyone? Hmmm? /unsigned. Wanna rat? Get a damn battleship. I'd further bet that even those that do remember were actually the ones complaining that it 'wasn't fair' to nerf the thorax like that.

Jagdgewehr Layered Orbital Logistics and Industrial Supply	Posted - 2007.11.03 03:17:00 - [221] Originally by: Tral Kul Originally by: Entilzah Valen Edited by: Entilzah Valen on 02/11/2007 13:01:09 Who remembers 10 Heavy Drone Thoraxes? I bet half of you don't. Anyone? Hmmm? /unsigned. Wanna rat? Get a damn battleship. I'd further bet that even those that do remember were actually the ones complaining that it 'wasn't fair' to nerf the thorax like that. At least with the drone re-balance during that time, there were lag issues and drone interfacing was changed to make up for the loss. A t1 cruiser lobbing around heavies can be seen as a bit much now. A battlecruiser designed to lob 5 heavies and balanced around that, rather than having its ability to field them stripped? Not so much. Now there's nothing but nerf, nerf, nerf with nothing but crybabies to blame for it.
Tral Kul	Posted - 2007.11.04 02:43:00 - [222] Originally by: Jagdgewehr Originally by: Tral Kul Originally by: Entilzah Valen Edited by: Entilzah Valen on 02/11/2007 13:01:09 Who remembers 10 Heavy Drone Thoraxes? I bet half of you don't. Anyone? Hmmm? /unsigned. Wanna rat? Get a damn battleship. I'd further bet that even those that do remember were actually the ones complaining that it 'wasn't fair' to nerf the thorax like that. At least with the drone re-balance during that time, there were lag issues and drone interfacing was changed to make up for the loss. A t1 cruiser lobbing around heavies can be seen as a bit much now. A battlecruiser designed to lob 5 heavies and balanced around that, rather than having its ability to field them stripped? Not so much. Now there's nothing but nerf, nerf, nerf with nothing but crybabies to blame for it. Right, a battlecruiser with one of the best tanks for its class (yes the drake is probably the best but the myri is close) and argueably the most dps at the same time. Yeah that's completely balanced.....wait no it isn't. The only crybabies here are the people that didn't see this nerf coming a mile away. PS the myri was NEVER designed to lob heavies, it's been stated before that myri got 125m3 so that it could field at least 2 wings of mediums and 1 of lights (which makes sense).
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.04 05:29:00 - [223] Originally by: Entilzah Valen Edited by: Entilzah Valen on 02/11/2007 13:01:09 Who remembers 10 Heavy Drone Thoraxes? I bet half of you don't. Anyone? Hmmm? /unsigned. Wanna rat? Get a damn battleship. If i can rat angels in a tech 1 arbitrator with 500k in drone skills and no guns fitted, then you all can rat anything in the new myrm or a vexor.
Ev1lD	Posted - 2007.11.04 09:49:00 - [224] signed
The RedSun Goats In Coats	Posted - 2007.11.04 10:21:00 - [225] Edited by: The RedSun on 04/11/2007 10:24:19 Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes /Unsinged Heavy drones are a large weapon supposed to be used by battleships. I don't see a harbinger capable of fitting 5 Mega Pulse Lasers, do you? lol LOL Signed !!!!! and Signed again !! ----------- Also i can understand part of the EOS nerf but havin the room to have 5 heavy drone but u just can not lauch them makes me cry. ------------- Ow look the Sun it burns !
Dzajic Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.04 11:00:00 - [226] OK, but Myrm Eos and Vexor having basically same damage potential, only difference being tank??? Is that really like it should be?
Car Wars The Coalition Of Buccaneers Mercenary Services	Posted - 2007.11.04 12:00:00 - [227] they myrmidon needs to be more inline wiht other droneboats like dominix and ishtar, vexor: They have turrets and a damage bonus, they lack the powergrid to fit top end guns AND a tank. Their is nothing wrong with a gank myrmidon with 7x blasters, 5 heavys and a weak tank, thats a choice. On the otherhand if you want to do a dual med rep tank you will need to switch to small guns and 5 heavys. Its BC, it should be hard to kill. So gimp its powergrid and keep the ability to use 5 heavy drones, it was promised to be a droneboat, so please do not make it use 5 mediums. Whats the dps from 5 heavys? 400 dps? thats not much, you will have to wait and see someones tank fail cap wise.
Braise Erighani Gallente Galaxia Entertainment	Posted - 2007.11.04 12:25:00 - [228] /signed and to EFT warriors : you fail.
Johnatan VVS Corporition Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.11.04 22:30:00 - [229] /signed If i could kill guns of any other BC it would be overpowered. But till you cant lock and shoot guns of your enemy this ships is in line with other BC. ---- start cut here ---- Evil Thug`s alt. ----- end cut here -----
General Brothel	Posted - 2007.11.05 02:30:00 - [230] Edited by: General Brothel on 05/11/2007 02:31:45 /signed Myrmidon without 5 t2 ogre - is not myrmidon or make bonuses for hybrid damage - some hybrid damage and tracking/optimal or keep drone ability - 5 heavy/sentry or down Bandwith for logistick drones - for 15 for heavy shield/armor

White Don	Posted - 2007.11.07 16:27:00 - [231] /me and my corp signed
Incantare Caldari Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.11.07 17:03:00 - [232] Sign all you want, you're not stopping the nerf bat.
Gypsio III Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.07 17:44:00 - [233] Quote: If i could kill guns of any other BC it would be overpowered. You can û it's called ewar. And guess what? Drones are largely immune to ewar!
Eka Maladay	Posted - 2007.11.07 18:40:00 - [234] Originally by: Gypsio III Quote: If i could kill guns of any other BC it would be overpowered. You can û it's called ewar. And guess what? Drones are largely immune to ewar! Drone are ONLY immune to ewar, it can be destroyed by -any- weapon. Plus it also have a counter measure made almost specifically against it, smartbomb.
Plekto Priory Of The Lemon R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.07 22:39:00 - [235] ^^^^ People need to realize that ONE medium smartbomb will obliterate drones faster than most pilots can recall them. Almost all Cruiser and larger ships have an empty high slot or two now. Fit one medium and suddenly the Mrym is castrated. What's the guy going to do? The drones pop from a couple of hits, so they can't keep them out. With the drones docked, it's no better than a good Cruiser. Maybe a tier 1 BC, if that. Kind of like running a Prophecy, actually - really really useless in combat without the drones. ONE Medium smartbomb keeps the drones from being launches(or pulled in in seconds). It doesn't need a nerf.
Gypsio III Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.07 23:15:00 - [236] Quote: People need to realize that ONE medium smartbomb will obliterate drones faster than most pilots can recall them. Almost all Cruiser and larger ships have an empty high slot or two now. Fit one medium and suddenly the Mrym is castrated. 1. It really won't. It'll work better as a self-neuting device. 2. Won't work in highsec wars particularly well, or outside stations or gates, where most small-gang combat occurs 3. PG/CPU requirements mean that fitting that smartie can be hard/impossible. A Drake has an 8th high but not the fittings to put much in it, for example.
Andre Coeurl Gallente TOHA Heavy Industries Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.11.08 19:35:00 - [237] The nerf-lovers are still forgetting that the myrm can do its theoretical damage at very short range, where: its blaster will eat cap fast, cap needed to sustain the tank, it will be vulnerable to nos, it will have sustained damage while engaging, and its drones can be shot off, bombed, engaged by the enemy's drones... So, if you all still think the myrm DPS is too high, remove the chance to fit 1 or 2 turrets, but leave the drones as they are! WHY a specifical DRONE BC should be able to field the SAME HIGH END DRONES A VEXOR CAN? (vexor cost = 1\10th myrm cost) "Drone BC" should mean that drones are the strong point, so a Myrm should field 5 heavy combat drones if the pilot loves risk, OR 5 heavy remote reppers for support, OR various combinations of smaller drones. Otherwise it will become an hugely overpriced Vexor, having more tank but proportionally larger signature, dullness and slowness. Is this really so sensible and righteous? As far as I've seen, a lot of the "nerf-lovers" continue to say "nerf the myrm" only because their favourite ships got nerfed too, a short or a long time ago... I can understand your bitterness, but that's the wrong way to go on IMO. I believe we dont't want to play "NERF-online", a game where you train months and spend money, time and efforts to be able to use your favourite ship, only to be frustrated the next month when it becomes a shiny piece of expensive junk, right? So we better try to be more objective, put bitterness aside (even if it arises from good reasons) and look towards a better way to balance those few things that REALLY need it, without adding further frustration to the people who like this game. --- --- ---
Vicious Phoenix	Posted - 2007.11.08 19:47:00 - [238] /unsigned Say no to battlecruisers using a full rack of battleship weapons. CFW (Certified Forum Warrior) I kill people ingame too. Originally by: CCP Tuxford I prefer dew over pepsi. I prefer beer over most things. Damn now I want beer.
Lionel Redstar	Posted - 2007.11.14 11:44:00 - [239] Originally by: Vicious Phoenix /unsigned Say no to battlecruisers using a full rack of battleship weapons. And what that "full rack of battleship weapons" is? A myrm can't fit large hybrids because of the power req. What are those "battleship weapons" you speak about? No.. don't tell me ... are the heavy drones? Is myrm supose to use heavy drones ? YES beacuse it is a drone boat. YES because it is a BATTLEcruiser and is supose to be somehow stronger than a cruiser, even a T2 one. It is stronger than a Ishtar? In some way yes, but on a overall NO. A HAC strong points are the speed and the T2 resists, things that a BC don't have. So stop comparing those two ship clases. P.S. I really would like to see how all of those "/unsigned/nerf the **" would react if their long and hard skilled toys would be nerfed. /signed again
Bishop 5 Gallente The Flying Tigers STELLAR LEGION	Posted - 2007.11.14 12:52:00 - [240] To all those saying 'heavy drones are BS sized weapons' vexor can launch them, so can any drone ship with 25mb bandwidth - ISHKUR included, so maybe they can't fit the full 5 but they can still launch them. So please, go find another argument. Drones are easily killed and expensive to replace - do you have to worry about replacing your HAMII's to enemy fire after every fight? Or your T2 Pulse lasers? No. You don't. Leave the Myr's drones alone and nerf the amount of turrets it gets, or give it the extra slot it's missing compared to the other teir 2 BC's. ------------- meh

Enigma Crysis	Posted - 2007.11.14 12:56:00 - [241] lets give the drones (and only the drones) the ability to attack turrets hardpoints of other ships.
Heliocon Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.14 12:56:00 - [242] Dont nerf my main damage type CCP!!!! I cant get shield rep on them now all they need to happen is they get webbed and popped in 2 volleys + sentries nearly insta pop L drones :( there each 1.5mil -3 mil in 0.0. WHy nerf drone boats drones and not high slots?? [/url]
Paltuf	Posted - 2007.11.14 13:00:00 - [243] Well I am all for what ccp are doing. The Mry is way to overpowered for the cost with 5 ogres II's you can own most other ships with the pure damage.. AND DONT give me OO they can be destroyed because you would have a sencer damper on and scoop the drone they shoot and they would have a lock time near 30 seconds on your drones.. SO the change on sheild time makes NO differnce if you know how to use drones. you can get over 600 dps with the mry for a very cheap ship yet for 150 mill (depends on kit) you only get 520 on a ishtar So which ship would you go for?? A battlecruser should not have the same damage as a HAC or a Battleship the Domi should be the Drone king not a battlecruser as it can do everything the domi can for very few SP. Also what about the Ishkur? name another AF that can out damage it? enyo is about 70 DPS from it 3 Hammerhead II and 2 lights anyone? People still fly a thorax yet they used to be able to fit 5 heavys, now no one is saying unerf that are they? The Changes are needed. Eos is hit abit hard but one rule applys for all.
dor amwar Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.14 13:13:00 - [244] /not signed it's really funny how all the arguments start with how easy it is just to kill the drones and then the myrm is dead. their suggestion is instead take the a turret, even 2! if the drones are not the big threat and so easy to take out, why all the fuss and don't say the range, if the fight starts at a distance the myrm has the advantage. even if the other is fit for longer range he loses because the myrm can still move at full speed (giving full drone dmg) making turrets worthless because of tracking. unless the myrm is up against a missile boat, but that's another story.
OneSock Crown Industries	Posted - 2007.11.14 15:02:00 - [245] Originally by: Paltuf The Mry is way to overpowered for the cost with 5 ogres II's you can own most other ships with the pure damage.. AND DONT give me OO they can be destroyed because you would have a sencer damper on and scoop the drone they shoot and they would have a lock time near 30 seconds on your drones.. SO the change on sheild time makes NO differnce if you know how to use drones. If I can run a sensor damper you can run a sensor booster. quid pro quo. If my drones don't recharge on scoop/deploy you can kill them a lot easier. quid pro quo If my drones can be popped so easily, is it not fair to have a DPS advantage ? If my drones can be popped so easily, I am throwing away a lot of isk, is it not fair to have a DPS advantage ? Nope, the DPS has been taken away. So what balances are there ? none I can see.
Paltuf	Posted - 2007.11.14 15:36:00 - [246] Originally by: OneSock Originally by: Paltuf The Mry is way to overpowered for the cost with 5 ogres II's you can own most other ships with the pure damage.. AND DONT give me OO they can be destroyed because you would have a sencer damper on and scoop the drone they shoot and they would have a lock time near 30 seconds on your drones.. SO the change on sheild time makes NO differnce if you know how to use drones. If I can run a sensor damper you can run a sensor booster. quid pro quo. If my drones don't recharge on scoop/deploy you can kill them a lot easier. quid pro quo If my drones can be popped so easily, is it not fair to have a DPS advantage ? If my drones can be popped so easily, I am throwing away a lot of isk, is it not fair to have a DPS advantage ? Nope, the DPS has been taken away. So what balances are there ? none I can see. Your not thinking of the real fight... if you are attacking a ship that has a sensor your most likey fighting a long range setup and it cannot hit your drones anyway.. Also once you redeployed your drones again.. he will have to run the 30 second lock time to find out which drone he attacked in the first place.. Now working on the 30 second lock time... you are still doing 600 dps so in 30 seconds you have done 18000 damage to that ship (depending on Res) thats alot of damage to take before he can start damaging your drones and then you scoop them and he loses lock.. and he has another 30 seconds... see where i am going with this?
Bishop 5 Gallente The Flying Tigers STELLAR LEGION	Posted - 2007.11.14 16:11:00 - [247] Originally by: Paltuf Well I am all for what ccp are doing. The Mry is way to overpowered for the cost with 5 ogres II's you can own most other ships with the pure damage.. AND DONT give me OO they can be destroyed because you would have a sencer damper on and scoop the drone they shoot and they would have a lock time near 30 seconds on your drones.. SO the change on sheild time makes NO differnce if you know how to use drones. you can get over 600 dps with the mry for a very cheap ship yet for 150 mill (depends on kit) you only get 520 on a ishtar So which ship would you go for?? A battlecruser should not have the same damage as a HAC or a Battleship the Domi should be the Drone king not a battlecruser as it can do everything the domi can for very few SP. Also what about the Ishkur? name another AF that can out damage it? enyo is about 70 DPS from it 3 Hammerhead II and 2 lights anyone? People still fly a thorax yet they used to be able to fit 5 heavys, now no one is saying unerf that are they? The Changes are needed. Eos is hit abit hard but one rule applys for all. So what if the Myrmidon has high DPS? Gallante are the DPS race, Gallante are the drone race. Teir 2 BC's were supposed to be 'Gank' - Look at the other races BCs. Why should we not have the highest DPS BC? We have the advantage of high DPS, sure.. but we also have all the disadvantages that go with; i.e. destructible DPS, short range, slow and if we want to use 5x ogre IIs then we can't fit any spares so a well setup interceptor could theoretically keep us tackled for a looong time. Battlecruisers should have the damage of a HAC. More so. BS? Maybe... I can get sick DPS out of my Brutix (higher than a Domi with 5x Ogre II) but I don't see anyone crying NERF TEH BRUTIX!!11 Domi is the drone king as guess what? It can fit spares. Handy that when your DPS starts dropping as the other guy is killing your drones. Also, Thorax could fit 8x heavy drones. Then they fixed medium blasters fitting/tracking. ------------- meh
Stylus Cool	Posted - 2007.11.14 16:55:00 - [248] Battlecruisers should have the damage of a HAC. More so. BS? Maybe... I can get sick DPS out of my Brutix . LOL. what are you on about... Why should a Battlecruser have the same damage as a HEAVY ASSAULT CRUSER?? errr do the names not mean anything? did you know what HAC stood for?
Bishop 5 Gallente The Flying Tigers STELLAR LEGION	Posted - 2007.11.14 17:02:00 - [249] Originally by: Stylus Cool Battlecruisers should have the damage of a HAC. More so. BS? Maybe... I can get sick DPS out of my Brutix . LOL. what are you on about... Why should a Battlecruser have the same damage as a HEAVY ASSAULT CRUSER?? errr do the names not mean anything? did you know what HAC stood for? Yes, I do, thanks for asking. CAPITAL LETTERS DO NOT MAKE A VALID ARGUMENT. Explain or be silent, alt. ------------- meh
Xenomorphea Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.14 18:34:00 - [250] It is amazing how many unqualified, incompetent comments we are getting by some pilots who do not even understand the game mechanics behind the drones, or how to compare DPS between completely different types of ships. To compare raw "paper" DPS between an ultra-close range ship using blasters + destroyable weapons (drones) against a mid/long range missile or gun boat using fixed turrets is SO wrong. Please try to compare the DPM isntead (Damage Per Minute) and consider this: 1. a drone/blaster boat needs time to approach a target and get into optimal range: no damage dealt during this phase ... 2. ... but you have to tank the enemy in the meanwhile and you are using using a MWD, which means your signature radius is about the size of a dreadnought (no kidding: Myrmidon with tech II MWD = 1650m signature radius, Moros dreadnought 1750m ...). The fact you usually fly directly in the direction of your tartet to minimize flight time, also means your transversal to the enemy's weapons is 0. 3. your drones are going to be tartgeted and shot at, so you have to scope them in: very little residual damage fron un-bonused blasters while they are being scoped and re-deployed; 4. with virtually no drone shield recharge (post patch), once you re-deploy your drones they are likely to be popped in one volley: there goes your primary weapon. 5. having just one additional set of drones as backup is not good enough: after a few minutes battle you are likely to have no drone left, or only drones damaged to the point of being useless; so you would have to redock to refill your drone bay every few minutes (?!?). 6. Besides, good drones (those for which we drone-*****s spent about 2 extra month to train for) are very expensive. Losing 5 Hammerhead IIs cost 6.2 - 7.5 mil ISK, about as much as a full rack of T2 turrets! Ogre II are somewhat less expensive, and not as easy to pop, but they travel slowly and risk to take more damage while scooping/redeploying .. Now, considered the above points, do you really think after a few minutes fight you are doing sustained 6-800 dps with a Myrmidon (depending on fit, and whether you still want to fit a tank or just go full damage)? DPS might translate to "effective" damage over time with a Harbinger or Drake, they definitely do not with a Myrm and also not with a Hurricane (which would normally fight in falloff range). My original suggested fix on this thread: here Also: give that turret back to the Hurricane, give some tank bonus to the Harbinger, if must be. Leave the Myrmidon alone, or just remove 2 turret hardpoints / adjust the grid to make full neutron fit impossible. Cheers, Xeno

kattak4 Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.14 20:04:00 - [251] If they intend for drones to be useless to the point where you have to spam the enemy with your several waves of drones(even though drone bays have BARELY been increased to fit this new ideal) then they should help themmarket make them cheaper. I haven't come across an ammo type that costs 2mil a pop yet. And can someone who spends their days on sisi tell me how the navy vexor is fairing during this nerfage?
MingRan Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.14 20:34:00 - [252] Originally by: Xenomorphea My original suggested fix on this thread: here Also: give that turret back to the Hurricane, give some tank bonus to the Harbinger, if must be. Leave the Myrmidon (and the Drake) alone, or just remove 2 turret hardpoints / adjust the grid to make full neutron blaster fit impossible. Cheers, Xeno Well, just... signed
Plekto Priory Of The Lemon R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.14 21:57:00 - [253] Edited by: Plekto on 14/11/2007 21:59:04 Edited by: Plekto on 14/11/2007 21:57:32 Finally a good post. A proper missile-boat at any sort of range(note how the Myrm is very very slow) will engage at 50-80km out with heavy missiles and literally ream a drone per volley. You launch your drones and he's locked three of them them a few seconds later(large drones). He assigns two heavy missile launchers per drone and sees the resulting carnage. Every 6 seconds each drone gets two missiles up its exhaust pipe. You're down to two drones by the time you either recall them or get in range with your blasters. Two remaining uninjured Orge IIs isn't going to do much other than annoy a Drake. Net result - 2/3 of his shields are gone and he's still tanking fine. His DPS vs yours at close range, minus your drones. My Drake can easily tank a Raven - what's a Mrym relying on guns alone going to do vs that? In any case, it's a pretty even fight. Certainly not overpowered. And that's if he doesn't have a SB fitted. Yes, I can easily fit a SB on a Drake, BTW. Stupid, really, not to fit one considering how many people use advanced drones and fighters these days.
Tesal Red Frog Investments Blue Sky Consortium	Posted - 2007.11.15 00:51:00 - [254] I have a different argument than most. Except during wars, I could care less about pvp as an occupation. I want my Myrmidon for level 2 and 3 missions and exploration. The Brutix is complete garbage for missions, it can't fit enough resists, and it armor tanks without enough slots in he right places to fit a decent perma armor tank. With a Myrmidon, I can seek out mission sites and complete most of them solo, a Brutix is useless for that. Now I will have to get an even slower and more expensive Domi, that sucks at killing frigs. As we all know, the Mrym is a great utility ship, but it is not nearly the PvE ship that the Drake is, still, it is the best that Gallente have. Taking out that extra couple of heavy Drones will make a few solo PvE missions/exploration very hard to handle in a Myrmidon because they will take a very long time to punch through ships, it will become fustrating and pointless to use anything but a Domi. The missioners out there are going to say "train Caldari", everyone should not have to train Caldari. Every race should a least have a marginal PvE BC, and Gallente is about to lose that. Also, why do you have to make flying the ship a royal pain. So now I have to carry 12 different drone types in my hangar for PvE, large, medium and small of each damage type. That is idiotic. This may be a stupid point, but if you need to nerf why not just reduce the drone damage bonus, or go with 3 heavies and boost the damage bonus. It is more controllable, and doesn't force the Myrmidon pilot to fit a frankenstein drone setup of multiple drones of different kinds which is a pain to manage. No person would propose forcing a drake to carry light, heavy and cruise missiles in order to allow it to carry out its function. That would be stupid. So why is it ok to propose 3 different drone types for a Myrmidon? If you need to nerf damage, just nerf damage, don't force stupid setups on people. This nerf kills the Myrmidon for PvE. I guess I don' really care about the Myrm specifically, I will stop using the Myrmidon and use a Domi, it just makes being Gallente a lot less useful and less fun. It is fun to hop in a Myrmidon and go cruise around. Now that will suck as much as flying a Brutix. Seriously, it will be pointless to fly the myrmidon after this for PvE. And this is one more reason why EVERYONE will only consider training Caldari because until you have at least 7 million SP, every other race is at a disadvantage. Caldari can blast away at long range of any damage type without tracking issues. I think the purpose of the Myrmidon was close range mayhem. Now it still is close range, but can't crank out DPS. The entire benefit of drones is close range mayhem. That is what Gallente are for, like Caldari are long range, Amarr are tank, and Minmatar are speed. Saying Gallente shouldn't be able to crank out close range DPS is silly. The Myrmidon should epitomize that spirit and should be able to stand toe to toe with anyone at close range for a time. I think the reason the Myrm is getting nerfed is that other players want the racial specifics of Gallente, which is close range gank, but they don't want to train Gallente. And when they try to play that way, and they die. /signed
Jane Salva Gallente Oyster Colors	Posted - 2007.11.15 03:13:00 - [255] /signed and signed again
dor amwar Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.15 08:03:00 - [256] Originally by: Xenomorphea Edited by: Xenomorphea on 14/11/2007 18:52:51 stuff you really consider drones to be 'ultra-close range' weapons, last i checked they could work at greater than 30 km as well as 1 km from launching boat. they have an initial closing time, but after that it's full on dmg.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.15 08:18:00 - [257] Originally by: Tesal I have a different argument than most. Except during wars, I could care less about pvp as an occupation. I want my Myrmidon for level 2 and 3 missions and exploration. The Brutix is complete garbage for missions, it can't fit enough resists, and it armor tanks without enough slots in he right places to fit a decent perma armor tank. With a Myrmidon, I can seek out mission sites and complete most of them solo, a Brutix is useless for that. Now I will have to get an even slower and more expensive Domi, that sucks at killing frigs. As we all know, the Mrym is a great utility ship, but it is not nearly the PvE ship that the Drake is, still, it is the best that Gallente have. Taking out that extra couple of heavy Drones will make a few solo PvE missions/exploration very hard to handle in a Myrmidon because they will take a very long time to punch through ships, it will become fustrating and pointless to use anything but a Domi. The missioners out there are going to say "train Caldari", everyone should not have to train Caldari. Every race should a least have a marginal PvE BC, and Gallente is about to lose that. Also, why do you have to make flying the ship a royal pain. So now I have to carry 12 different drone types in my hangar for PvE, large, medium and small of each damage type. That is idiotic. This may be a stupid point, but if you need to nerf why not just reduce the drone damage bonus, or go with 3 heavies and boost the damage bonus. It is more controllable, and doesn't force the Myrmidon pilot to fit a frankenstein drone setup of multiple drones of different kinds which is a pain to manage. No person would propose forcing a drake to carry light, heavy and cruise missiles in order to allow it to carry out its function. That would be stupid. So why is it ok to propose 3 different drone types for a Myrmidon? If you need to nerf damage, just nerf damage, don't force stupid setups on people. /signed Thats the most fake excuse I've ever heard. Hammerhead IIs do more damage than every other type of medium drone against all NPCs, except maybe vespas for guristas. You certainly do NOT need 4 different damage type of drones, and 3 of each type. Hammerheads will also rip apart mission frigs, and do reasonable well on the BS you're likely to find in lvl 4 missions. All you need is hammerheads and vespas.
MingRan Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.15 09:22:00 - [258] Originally by: Gamesguy Thats the most fake excuse I've ever heard. Hammerhead IIs do more damage than every other type of medium drone against all NPCs, except maybe vespas for guristas. You certainly do NOT need 4 different damage type of drones, and 3 of each type. Hammerheads will also rip apart mission frigs, and do reasonable well on the BS you're likely to find in lvl 4 missions. All you need is hammerheads and vespas. I guess what Tesal meant is that with a 75Mbit bandwidth you have to use 3 different sizes to get the most out of it: 315 dps - 2 OgreII/2 Hammerhead II/1 HobgoblinII 285 dps - 3 OgreII 238 dps - 5 Hammerhead II And controlling 3 different sizes at once is just a pain. At least a minimum 80Mbit Bandwith should be given, you still can`t use more then 3 heavies, but at least you can get rid of the lights (which have the most bugs at the moment) in a single wave.
Heliocon Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.15 14:30:00 - [259] Originally by: dor amwar Originally by: Xenomorphea Edited by: Xenomorphea on 14/11/2007 18:52:51 stuff you really consider drones to be 'ultra-close range' weapons, last i checked they could work at greater than 30 km as well as 1 km from launching boat. they have an initial closing time, but after that it's full on dmg. Wow you are truly stupid. If I work at 30km with heavy dornes they travel aprox 1000ms. That = 30-40 (once you tell them to engage) for them to get to target by that time (takes 20 sec for bc to lock dorne and about 4 for frig) they are getting shot at and it takes another 30 sec for them to return but they can get popped in 1-2 volleys easy! And mean while oyur caps gone mwd to target so i can get within 5000m to use blasters or scoop drones! ( all the enemy needs to do is web a dorne and it is not escaping either) [/url]
Xenomorphea Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.15 14:58:00 - [260] Edited by: Xenomorphea on 15/11/2007 15:03:09 Originally by: dor amwar Originally by: Xenomorphea stuff you really consider drones to be 'ultra-close range' weapons, last i checked they could work at greater than 30 km as well as 1 km from launching boat. they have an initial closing time, but after that it's full on dmg. Please, do not twist my words: I did not write anywhere that drones are "ultra-close-range" only. We are discussing the Myrmidon as "ultra-close range ship using blasters + drones". This is the kind of setup that is being criticized for "uber dps". A mid/long range setup using rails + light or medium drones setup that deals 3-400 dps was never going to trouble anyone, and would have never caused all this nerf nonsense. Of course you CAN use drones at 50 km, and you CAN use rails. However, railgun damage is approx. 1/2 than blasters, and far away drones are going to die if targeted, as you have no chance to scoop them back in time and/or you would spend most of the fight with your drones either flying to the target, or flying back to your cargo hold. This would reduce your damage to rails only, which is about 180 dps (6x 200mm Railgun II with Antimatter and 1 MagStab II). So, with all due respect, your point is moot. The only setup that works for max damage on a Myrm is heavy (or a mix of heavy/medium) drones, and blasters. And that IS "ultra close range", as you only manage to do full damage at about 2-3 km from your target. Besides, being on top of your target is also your only chance to scoop and redeploy drones without losing too much time (or losing them altogether). Of course, if you were a drone ship PvP pilot, you would know all this already :-) Peace, Xeno My view on this matter: here

lin ta	Posted - 2007.11.15 18:58:00 - [261] Originally by: Heliocon Originally by: dor amwar Originally by: Xenomorphea Edited by: Xenomorphea on 14/11/2007 18:52:51 stuff you really consider drones to be 'ultra-close range' weapons, last i checked they could work at greater than 30 km as well as 1 km from launching boat. they have an initial closing time, but after that it's full on dmg. Wow you are truly stupid. If I work at 30km with heavy dornes they travel aprox 1000ms. That = 30-40 (once you tell them to engage) for them to get to target by that time (takes 20 sec for bc to lock dorne and about 4 for frig) they are getting shot at and it takes another 30 sec for them to return but they can get popped in 1-2 volleys easy! And mean while oyur caps gone mwd to target so i can get within 5000m to use blasters or scoop drones! ( all the enemy needs to do is web a dorne and it is not escaping either) you guys are really getting shrill. also funny how in ships and setups forums how you rave about yur setup and pwns all. now it's see easy to beat and ccp is bing soooo unfair. poor you. i might have given a reply but opening with stupid remarks doesn't deserve anything.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.15 23:40:00 - [262] If drones are so crappy the you wouldnt object to a harbinger getting 5 heavies now would you? Afterall without them its outdamaged by a mymrmidon with no damage mods when its fitting 3 heat sinks.
Lilane Gallente ICE is Coming to EVE Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.11.15 23:59:00 - [263] Edited by: Lilane on 15/11/2007 23:59:45 Will never "sign". Myrm needs a nerf, but a Balanced one... As i already stated, i would like to see a 4 gun slots 100 Bdwth 200/205 m3 Myrmidion.... Please take in account that i'm a Gallente pilot, mostly piloting droneships from years. Wich means : this is my ship i speaking of. Edit : and i have some very similar feeling about Eos, needing a more balanced nerf... -- Lilane, Dark pinguin from outer ICE
Xenomorphea Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.16 06:58:00 - [264] Originally by: Gamesguy If drones are so crappy the you wouldnt object to a harbinger getting 5 heavies now would you? Afterall without them its outdamaged by a mymrmidon with no damage mods when its fitting 3 heat sinks. Nobody wrote "drones are crappy". We tried to explain what are the pros and cons of a high damge, close range blaster+drones boat. Drones on a Myrmidon are THE primary weapon, unlike on the Harbinger or the other battlecruisers. The Harbinger damage with lasers only is already 453 dps (7x Heavy Pulse Laser, Conflagration and 1 Heat Sink), with 5 Hammerhead II 612 dps. Compare with the Myrm: 6x Heavy Ion Blasters II, Void and 1 MagStab = 331 dps. In a more typical fit with full tank and no MagStab (the close range setup with MWD requires a sturdy tank to have any chance of survical vs. longer range boats) you get just 270 dps out of those blasters (and your blaster optimal range is just 2.8 km with Void). With the suggested changes for the Myrm, you can only use 3 heavy drones (+285 dps = 555 dps total), or 2 heavy, 2 medium and 1 light (+315 dps = 585 dps total), which is anyway a crappy combination due to different micro-management requirements, as explained here. Now, the ONLY advantage of a ultra-close range blaster+drones boat setup is higher damage, once it reaches optimal (after tanking on approach) and at the cost of destroyable primary weapons. Please explain me what good is the Myrm post nerf, if it does not even match the "burst damage" of a mid-range ship like the Harbinger (585 vs 612 dps)? I guess every gallente pilot will go back to flying a Brutix instead. Cheers, Xeno
Paltuf	Posted - 2007.11.16 08:09:00 - [265] Funny that Most people in game that i have spoken to about this ship all agree it is over powered but 80m bandwidth would be better.. anyway from a game point of view.. you just get the mry now you have good drone skills and gunnery/nos-neut now you have doing more damage than any other droneboat.. so what ship do you train for now? if it stays like it is now the mry is the end all drone boat.. you dont need the domi or ishtar in the game theres no point. its like the harbinger out damaging the abaddon.
eeeweeezeee Pastry Coalition	Posted - 2007.11.16 08:12:00 - [266] at first, i mentaly said something along the lines of "OH NOES, MY ALT WITH A MYRMADON IS GETTING TEH NERF BAT! IMA DONE FOR!!!!1111" but Originally by: Eleana Tomelac Guys, are you just stating that the myrmidon should have more firepower than the ishtar? As in -ishtar gets 3*1.25 turrets and 5 heavy drones -myrmidon gets 6 turrets and 5 heavy drones This sounds quite wrong... actualy, if you put it that way, you're right. its just that we are used to having the most uber pvp ships being the easiest to get into and capable of killing the ones people spend years training for. galente ships are a good example of this. the dominix takes about 3 months to train to the point that you can kill any command ship with it. even with the nos nerf, which seems to have had a backwards effect and now everyone uses cap boosters and neuts in large quantities. as is, people who have the skills do not use hacs and command ships because they have a very small if any advantage and are a lot more costly. often, a battle cruiser out preforms a hac anyway, such as the case with the brutix and diemos last time i asked around. this might have changed since then, but its probably still true. it is wrong to reward the younger players the way they have been by doing things such as giving new characters so manny more skill points to start out with. making the game more atractive to newer players is all fine and dandy, but it is just hurting the older players. i would like to think that training galente carrier 5 on my alt will help me and not just be a long skill I threw on because the account was about to run out.
Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2007.11.16 10:13:00 - [267] Originally by: Xenomorphea Edited by: Xenomorphea on 16/11/2007 07:25:38 Edited by: Xenomorphea on 16/11/2007 07:17:12 Originally by: Gamesguy If drones are so crappy the you wouldnt object to a harbinger getting 5 heavies now would you? Afterall without them its outdamaged by a mymrmidon with no damage mods when its fitting 3 heat sinks. Nobody wrote "drones are crappy". Some of us tried to explain what are the pros and cons of a high damge, close range blaster+drones boat. Drones on a Myrmidon are THE primary weapon, unlike on the Harbinger or the other battlecruisers. The Harbinger damage with lasers only is already 453 dps (7x Heavy Pulse Laser, Conflagration and 1 Heat Sink), with 5 Hammerhead II 612 dps. Compare with the Myrm: 6x Heavy Ion Blasters II, Void and 1 MagStab = 331 dps. In a more typical fit with full tank and no MagStab (the close range setup with MWD requires a sturdy tank to have any chance of survical vs. longer range boats) you get just 270 dps out of those blasters (and your blaster optimal range is just 2.8 km with Void). Note: for this setup you'd need a 60 mil ISK Ancillary Current Router rig to enhance your Power Grid, or you won't even manage to fit 2x MAR II, MWD and Cap Booster, all essential for PvP. In a more standard setup using armor rigs (1x Nanobot accellerator, 2x Auxiliary Nano Pump) you would only manage to fit 6x Heavy Electron Blaster II (309 dps with void and 1 MagStab II, 252 dps without MagStab). With the suggested changes for the Myrm, you can only use 3 heavy drones (+285 dps = 555 dps total with Ions, or 534 with Electrons), or 2 heavy, 2 medium and 1 light (+315 dps = 585 dps total with Ions, or 567 with Electrons), which is anyway a crappy combination due to different micro-management requirements, as explained here. Now, the ONLY advantage of a ultra-close range blaster+drones boat setup is higher "burst damage", once it reaches optimal (after tanking on approach) and at the cost of destroyable primary weapons. Please explain me what good is the Myrm post nerf, if it does not even match the "burst damage" of a mid-range ship like the Harbinger (585/567 Myrm vs 612 dps)? I would not mind THAT much, if we could just upgrade to something like the EOS; but that ship is gonna be nerfed even harder. The only true gallente drone boats remaining out there will be the Vexor/Ishtar and the Dominix. If the Myrm needs a nerf, just remove 2 turret hardpoints. Leave the drones alone. Cheers, Xeno midrange boat like the harbinger??? you do realize that the lasers in your example with conflag have an optimal, with max skills, of 7,500m inside web range. you also fail to mention the high cap use on the amarr boat. You also fail to bring up the HUGE rep bonus on the myrm. If you run the numbers, youll see that the myrm has no problem tanking the harbinger, until cap charges run out anyway, while the harbinger wont be ble to rep up the damamge fast enough. oh, and then theres the 5th med on the myrm. Good place for a sensor booster, or TD. Lets assume sensor booster. So we got a 30 second lock time on the drones....assuming we are alive after that, you see the drone take some damage, scope them and redeploy....by the time we relock, its recharged alot of shield after the patch, today its at full health magically. scoping is not a problem, you are sitting right on that harby, giving his pulses a tough time tracking you. Whats that? bring a sensor booster? oh thats right...no room for that. oh well, its amarr, its supposed to die when you look at it, which is really what you want. Harbinger is a bad example if you are trying to argue that the myrm should not be changed. Today, 1 myrm vs 2x harbingers....my money is not on the harbingers. Originally by: Snuggly It's just so great to have an actual reason to not die, incentive is fantastic!
Thraxon Black-Sun-Inventions	Posted - 2007.11.16 10:49:00 - [268] I can understand the myrmidon should be nerfed a bit to bring it more in line with the other races tier2 battlecruisers. BUT since this is a drone carrier, why nerf the drones? Why not give the myrm 125m^3 bandwith an a slightly larger drone bay, sau 175m^3, so you can bring two spare heavies, or some other drones. And nerf the hi slots on. Remove all or most turret hardpoints and give it like 3 High slots for utilities. This will tone down the damage, but it still will be useful as a drone carrier.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.16 11:22:00 - [269] Originally by: Xenomorphea Nobody wrote "drones are crappy". Some of us tried to explain what are the pros and cons of a high damge, close range blaster+drones boat. Drones on a Myrmidon are THE primary weapon, unlike on the Harbinger or the other battlecruisers. The Harbinger damage with lasers only is already 453 dps (7x Heavy Pulse Laser, Conflagration and 1 Heat Sink), with 5 Hammerhead II 612 dps. Compare with the Myrm: 6x Heavy Ion Blasters II, Void and 1 MagStab = 331 dps. In a more typical fit with full tank and no MagStab (the close range setup with MWD requires a sturdy tank to have any chance of survical vs. longer range boats) you get just 270 dps out of those blasters (and your blaster optimal range is just 2.8 km with Void). Note: for this setup you'd need a 60 mil ISK Ancillary Current Router rig to enhance your Power Grid, or you won't even manage to fit 2x MAR II, MWD and Cap Booster, all essential for PvP. In a more standard setup using armor rigs (1x Nanobot accellerator, 2x Auxiliary Nano Pump) you would only manage to fit 6x Heavy Electron Blaster II (309 dps with void and 1 MagStab II, 252 dps without MagStab). With the suggested changes for the Myrm, you can only use 3 heavy drones (+285 dps = 555 dps total with Ions, or 534 with Electrons), or 2 heavy, 2 medium and 1 light (+315 dps = 585 dps total with Ions, or 567 with Electrons), which is anyway a crappy combination due to different micro-management requirements, as explained here. Now, the ONLY advantage of a ultra-close range blaster+drones boat setup is higher "burst damage", once it reaches optimal (after tanking on approach) and at the cost of destroyable primary weapons. Please explain me what good is the Myrm post nerf, if it does not even match the "burst damage" of a mid-range ship like the Harbinger (585/567 Myrm vs 612 dps)? I would not mind THAT much, if we could just upgrade to something like the EOS; but that ship is gonna be nerfed even harder. The only true gallente drone boats remaining out there will be the Vexor/Ishtar and the Dominix. If the Myrm needs a nerf, just remove 2 turret hardpoints. Leave the drones alone. Cheers, Xeno Man, you really like twisting numbers to make a non-existent argument dont you? Both ships have 6 lows, you either compare with the same number of damage mods or none at all. Harbinger in order to fit a dual MAR tank same as the myrmidon needs to do 3 focused medium pulse and 4 heavy pulse. With conflag they have an optimal of 7km, which is really no different from the 3km optimal of blaster fitted myrmidon. With no damage mods it does 456 dps. The new myrmidon with 5 ion blasters, 1 electron blaster, and 3 ogre IIs deal 559 dps, both bc have the same number of lows, the myrmidon has an extra mid for EW, AND has a tanking bonus. The whole argument with neuton blasters is a red herring, since you can easilly downgrade to ion blasters, have plenty of PG/cpu, and lose a mighty 20 dps from the guns. You want to do the same damage as a harbinger with 3 heat sinks? Then the myrm needs to lose the tanking bonus, it shouldnt be able to tank as well as a prophecy while doing harbinger level damage, which it will be able to continue to do even if it lost 2 turret slots(672 dps with ZERO damage mods, which is only 30 lower than harbinger with 2 heat sinks and practically no tank at all).
Xenomorphea Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.16 11:28:00 - [270] Edited by: Xenomorphea on 16/11/2007 11:46:51 Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn midrange boat like the harbinger??? you do realize that the lasers in your example with conflag have an optimal, with max skills, of 7,500m inside web range. you also fail to mention the high cap use on the amarr boat. You also fail to bring up the HUGE rep bonus on the myrm. If you run the numbers, youll see that the myrm has no problem tanking the harbinger, until cap charges run out anyway, while the harbinger wont be ble to rep up the damamge fast enough. oh, and then theres the 5th med on the myrm. Good place for a sensor booster, or TD. Lets assume sensor booster. So we got a 30 second lock time on the drones....assuming we are alive after that, you see the drone take some damage, scope them and redeploy....by the time we relock, its recharged alot of shield after the patch, today its at full health magically. scoping is not a problem, you are sitting right on that harby, giving his pulses a tough time tracking you. Whats that? bring a sensor booster? oh thats right...no room for that. oh well, its amarr, its supposed to die when you look at it, which is really what you want. Harbinger is a bad example if you are trying to argue that the myrm should not be changed. Today, 1 myrm vs 2x harbingers....my money is not on the harbingers. You are not supposed to outdamage or outtank a super-close range boat like the Myrmidon at 0-5 km range in 1 on 1. But you can still win, you just have to know how. Let me enlighten you: A Mid-Range boat deals decent damage between 10 km (out of web range) and 20/24 km (within Warp Disruptor range). To do this effectively, you need to dictate range. So you must fit a MicroWarpdrive and a Cap Booster on your Harbinger. This works in a setup like follows: 7x Focused Medium Pulse Laser II; 10 MN MWD II, Cap Booster II, Faint Warp Prohibitor I, X5 or Fleeting Stasis Webifier; 2x MAR II, DC II, 2x EANM II, Heat Sink II. You switch to Scorch, and your optimal is 20 km + 3.8 Falloff. You are now dealing "only" 466 dps (together with 5x Hammerhead II), but you are faster than the Myrmidon (1057 vs 1034 m/s). Your goal is to stay out of your enemy's stasis webifier range, but within your warp disruptor range. If the Myrmidon is approaching you, you MWD out of the way. A good way to suprise the enemy, is to MWD vertically up or down. If the Myrm is using blasters, they will not hit you at all (even with Null, range is 4-5 km), and if the Myrm pilot deployed only heavy drones, they can hardly catch you (Ogre II MWD speed is slightly less than your Harbinger speed with max skills). The Myrm is now effectively dealing 0 dps against you. If it deployed medium drones, you just have to tank 238 dps (hardly more than 1 MAR running). While all this is happening, you can hit the Myrm with both your drones & lasers for full 466 dps (while using MWD, the sig. radius of both ships is about the size of a Dreadnought, so tracking is not even an issue). Cap usage: using all weapons, scramblers, MWD and both medium armor repairers, cap will last 1m 46s on the Myrmidon, and 2m 55s on the Harbinger - yes, cap usage is much worse on a Myrmidon, just do the math yourself :-) So the Myrm cap dies 1 minute before yours. From now on, it cannot tank any of those 466 dps you are still dealing, nor can it control range without MWD, and is soon dead. In the final stages of this fight, you can even switch to Conflagration (damage boosted to 550 dps) to finish your prey faster. If you are losing 1 on 1 vs. a stadndard Myrm (blasters+heavy drones) it is either because you are fitting your ship wrong (full damage, not MWD, no tank?) or because you still do not know how to make the best out of it. Sure the difference in speed between the two ships is not very much - as long as you manage to keep range, you win; if you don't, you lose. I think that makes a fight exciting. Xeno

Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2007.11.16 12:19:00 - [271] Originally by: Xenomorphea Edited by: Xenomorphea on 16/11/2007 11:46:51 crappy theory nice theory ya got there. to bad the harbinger will NEVER break the myrms tank. 1 minute before myrm caps out? LOL it has cap boosters too ya know. and tanks way more. and now, if it cant catch you, it just returns to gate or station. I guess if its a ratting myrm, so the harbingers options are either: 1. die 2. run away till the myrm gets bored and leaves. this is not what you would call balance. PS. I like how you still fitted a web on the harbinger...even tho web range is death for it. Originally by: Snuggly It's just so great to have an actual reason to not die, incentive is fantastic!
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.16 12:58:00 - [272] Edited by: Gamesguy on 16/11/2007 12:59:26 Originally by: Xenomorphea ******** theory Man you have no clue wtf you're talking about AT ALL do you? First of all, the harbinger is not nearly agile enough to try and keep range. You see a myrmidon and you start running away with a mwd, he chases you and sees he cant catch you, the myrm would simply turn and warp, and you will NOT be able to slowdown/turn fast enough to keep the point. Hell by the time you stop you'd be like 30 km away. Second, it takes a year for the harbinger to acclerate to max speed, if you start the mwd after you see the myrm already mwding towards you, you will simply not acclerate fast enough and die a speedy death inside web range. Third, you will not be outrunning ogres, a measely 20m/s difference means it will take you 300 seconds to get out of the ogre's optimal, thats 5 minutes incase you failed math. Fourth, even if the myrmidon pilot is stupid enough to get into this ridiculous tail chase. You will cap out before he does(cap on a myrm constantly boosting from a medium injector lasts over 8 minutes without guns, vs 3 from the harbinger), not to mention that massive 220 dps tank from dual rep on the harbinger means you will NOT be able to tank the ogres. Fifth, myrm has 5 mids, have you checked what happens to your optimal when there is a tracking disruptor on it? Have fun with the 8km optimal on scorch. So basically the harbinger can run away or die, really balanced right there.
Plekto Priory Of The Lemon R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.17 00:10:00 - [273] Wow. What a lot of garbage from so many people. Look - Xeno's right here. In the hands of a trained pilot, most other ships can get away from a Mrym or lead the drones long enough to give them time to lock them. Just do a calculation - if the drones are going 1500/sec and you are going 1400/sec, it takes a LONG time for them to get into optimal range. Their AI won't start firing until they orbit you at least once, so as long as you keep ahead of them , they do no damage at all until they catch you.(oops) Lock - boom(0 transversal as they stupidly follow you in a straight line). Rinse, repeat. The Myrm has one shot to get you and it's to leap on top of you and hope you can't outrun them in time. As for the DPS, eve fitting tool is junk. 2km range? Seriously you deserve to get killed if you let any ship get than close - or within web range(same diff). So 2km weapon range is unuseable in real PVP. ie - I could take a Prophecy, mod it and stuff one t2 torpedo on it. Do 103DPS. Looks impressive, but you'll never actually find a single person flying that setup. The same is true with 2km range weapons on something that's too slow to overtake most ships that it can actually potentially kill.(BSs will just tank it and laugh) It just doesn't need nerfing at all. It's an argument that just doesn't hold water once you get it into the hands of a player.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.17 04:50:00 - [274] Originally by: Plekto Wow. What a lot of garbage from so many people. Look - Xeno's right here. In the hands of a trained pilot, most other ships can get away from a Mrym or lead the drones long enough to give them time to lock them. Just do a calculation - if the drones are going 1500/sec and you are going 1400/sec, it takes a LONG time for them to get into optimal range. Their AI won't start firing until they orbit you at least once, so as long as you keep ahead of them , they do no damage at all until they catch you.(oops) You're an idiot. What do you think you're flying? An inty that accelerates instantly? Drones have instant acceleration, it takes the harbinger over 15 seconds to get to top speed. Quote: Lock - boom(0 transversal as they stupidly follow you in a straight line). Rinse, repeat. The Myrm has one shot to get you and it's to leap on top of you and hope you can't outrun them in time. As for the DPS, eve fitting tool is junk. 2km range? Seriously you deserve to get killed if you let any ship get than close - or within web range(same diff). So 2km weapon range is unuseable in real PVP. I guess all the blaster megas are useless. Quote: ie - I could take a Prophecy, mod it and stuff one t2 torpedo on it. Do 103DPS. Looks impressive, but you'll never actually find a single person flying that setup. The same is true with 2km range weapons on something that's too slow to overtake most ships that it can actually potentially kill.(BSs will just tank it and laugh) What does that have to do with close range weapons? Quote: It just doesn't need nerfing at all. It's an argument that just doesn't hold water once you get it into the hands of a player. 1v1 my myrm with a harbinger. You will either run away or die, there is no winning.
Atsuko Ratu Caldari Advanced Logistics	Posted - 2007.11.17 22:05:00 - [275] Come on guys, the mym isn't overpowered! I mean look at the examples! If a 3 year old that has never played a game in his life can lose to a perfectly-fit-just-to-beat-a-heavydroneusing-mym, piloted by a max skilled amarr harby pilot with insta-accelerate hacks and has played games since he was in the womb, then the mym is obviously on par with that single BC. NERF HARBINGERS IT CAN BEAT MY MYM IF I PLAYED 20 YEARS AGO. wtf? Wait, since you have to use mediums (or a nasty mix of drones), you can beat the harby now! STOP BUFFING THE MYM NOOoooo000...
Lydia Browm Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.18 12:35:00 - [276] People are using mods that are going to get nerfed to get the myrmidon nerfed do your calculations without damps and scoop deploy ect ... ___________________________________________ Cookies if you hijack or sign my sig. There tasty...
Ethaet Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.18 13:11:00 - [277] /signed. The myrm is going to become useless otherwise, the brutix will outdps it. - TQ has encountered a database issue, we are sitting around wondering why it has crashed this time, waiting for 500,000 petitions and watching the forums fill up. Post with your alt!
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.18 14:01:00 - [278] Originally by: Ethaet /signed. The myrm is going to become useless otherwise, the brutix will outdps it. Not without damage mods it wont.
Ethaet Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.18 14:24:00 - [279] myrm: 6x med neutron ii, 5x bonused hammerhead ii = 533 dps brutix: 7x med neutron ii, 5x hammerhead ii = 589 dps all skills l5, no weapon upgrades, void m ammo for both setups. - TQ has encountered a database issue, we are sitting around wondering why it has crashed this time, waiting for 500,000 petitions and watching the forums fill up. Post with your alt!
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.18 14:50:00 - [280] Edited by: Goumindong on 18/11/2007 14:51:14 Originally by: Ethaet myrm: 6x med neutron ii, 5x bonused hammerhead ii = 533 dps brutix: 7x med neutron ii, 5x hammerhead ii = 589 dps all skills l5, no weapon upgrades, void m ammo for both setups. 1. How about you fit weapons that fit. The Brutix cant fit 7 neutrons and an MWD. Let alone a rep and injector. The Myrmidon gets closer[to the rep/injector, it can fit a full rack and mwd], but still cant. However, as you downfit weapons, the myrmidon starts getting better and the Brutix gets worse. 2. You arent using all the bandwidth of the Myrmidon. Its got 75, not 50. Just as putting 5 Neutron Blasters on a Brutix would not be considered reasonable, leaving 25 cubes free is as well. The myrm actually does 606 with 6 neutrons and no damage bonus 3. In addition to fitting weapons that fit, with a similar tank the Myrm gets a damage mod over the Brutix, which would put its 606 Neutron DPS to 672. Though with similar gank, it just has an extra slot for tank. 4. Range... Actuall numbers you are looking for are, with all ships having 0 damage mods Myrm: Electron Blasters, 2/2/1: 569 Myrm: 220 AC, 2/2/1: 531/485 Brutix: Electron Blasters, Hammerheads: 530 dps. So no, without damage mods, leaving the Myrmidon with +1 slot for tanking and +1 med slot and more powergrid and fitting the Myrm comes out ahead by about 30 dps. And the same when changing to a better damage typed top end with more ability to change range.

Perry Amarr The X-Trading Company Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.11.18 14:51:00 - [281] Reality Check: Harbinger vs Myrm, both MWD, Harbinger tries to kite Myrm: Harb uses 7x Focused Medium Pulse II with Scorch M and 2 Heat Sink II to deal damage. Scorch M does 18em an 4th damage. The Harbinger has 7 Turrets with x5,7 and rof 2,4s. 7x5,7x18/2,4 for EM damage = 300em dps 7x5,7x4/2,4 for TH damage = 67th dps Myrmidon with decent fitting has 80%EM and 68%TH Resistance. That leaves 60em dps and 21th dps, or 81dps combined against the Myrms armor. The Myrmidon has around 5860hp armor. 5860hp/81hps=72s. For Armor alone the Harbinger needs over one Minute. But wait, we said the Myrm has a decent fitting, so 2reps running on a med booster! Typing in the 18em and 4th into EFT gets us 277dps tanked for one rep and 554dps tanked for boths reps running. So the Myrm runs 1 Med Rep and tanks the harb like forever, while the Harb burns his Cap800 charges and does about zilch damage. The Drones are worth a seperate view. But since the Myrm has a webber, harbs Drones are dead after 1minute. Myrms drones last quite a bit longer with spares ready. All in all, Harbinger Pilot must bail or dies the capdeath.
Ethaet Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.18 15:53:00 - [282] Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 18/11/2007 14:51:14 Originally by: Ethaet myrm: 6x med neutron ii, 5x bonused hammerhead ii = 533 dps brutix: 7x med neutron ii, 5x hammerhead ii = 589 dps all skills l5, no weapon upgrades, void m ammo for both setups. 1. How about you fit weapons that fit. The Brutix cant fit 7 neutrons and an MWD. Let alone a rep and injector. The Myrmidon gets closer[to the rep/injector, it can fit a full rack and mwd], but still cant. However, as you downfit weapons, the myrmidon starts getting better and the Brutix gets worse. 2. You arent using all the bandwidth of the Myrmidon. Its got 75, not 50. Just as putting 5 Neutron Blasters on a Brutix would not be considered reasonable, leaving 25 cubes free is as well. The myrm actually does 606 with 6 neutrons and no damage bonus 3. In addition to fitting weapons that fit, with a similar tank the Myrm gets a damage mod over the Brutix, which would put its 606 Neutron DPS to 672. Though with similar gank, it just has an extra slot for tank. 4. Range... Actuall numbers you are looking for are, with all ships having 0 damage mods Myrm: Electron Blasters, 2/2/1: 569 Myrm: 220 AC, 2/2/1: 531/485 Brutix: Electron Blasters, Hammerheads: 530 dps. So no, without damage mods, leaving the Myrmidon with +1 slot for tanking and +1 med slot and more powergrid and fitting the Myrm comes out ahead by about 30 dps. And the same when changing to a better damage typed top end with more ability to change range. 1. I said nothing about a MWD. This is based on theoretical maximum dps. The brutix can easily fit 7 neutrons. 2. ok, fair enough, the myrm outdpses the brutix by a slight margin then. It is still totally nerfed to crap and useless. 3. again, this is a theoretical fit, not sometuing you would actually use, just to demonstrate DPS. Anyway, low slots are needed for tank. 4. the range will be the same for both ships. - TQ has encountered a database issue, we are sitting around wondering why it has crashed this time, waiting for 500,000 petitions and watching the forums fill up. Post with your alt!
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.18 16:27:00 - [283] Edited by: Goumindong on 18/11/2007 16:29:27 Originally by: Ethaet 1. I said nothing about a MWD. This is based on theoretical maximum dps. The brutix can easily fit 7 neutrons. 2. ok, fair enough, the myrm outdpses the brutix by a slight margin then. It is still totally nerfed to crap and useless. 3. again, this is a theoretical fit, not sometuing you would actually use, just to demonstrate DPS. Anyway, low slots are needed for tank. 4. the range will be the same for both ships. 1. In which case the myrmidon does 300 dps and the brutix does 158 dps, because the brutix cant ever get in range. You cant make nerf/buff suggestions on theorhetical maximum dps of a fit that wont ever be able to get in range to do that dps. Not that max gank fittings arent viable, but they arent viable unless they can get in range, and they are viable in different types of combat. Theorheticially the Typhoon does 1400 dps, NERF NERF NERF! 2. No, its not, that is the point. The myrmidon is now in a position where it ought to be, better with a tank fit than the brutix. While the brutix is better with a gank fit. This gives the gallente pilot options when fittng out. He can choose the myrm which is better with a tank and therefor better in smaller gangs where it is more likley to take damage, or he can choose the brutix which is better in larger gangs where it needs to do a lot of DPS and isnt likely to be called primary. 4. Yes, low slots are needed for tank, that is why in the two examples shown, including the final dps listing of the myrmidon at the bottom of my post, there are exactly 0 slots used for damage mods in either fitting. So the myrmidon there, with the 560 dps. It does that DPS with 6 slots of tank. To compare. A Harbinger with 6 slots of tank does 478 dps. That is nearly 100 DPS more than the Harbinger, WITH an Additional tank bonus. The Hurricane runs 521/448 in a full tank fit, and to do that you need missile skills as well as guns and drones. And it still does less than even an autocannon Myrmidon. And the Myrm has extra drones which are harder to kill than the Hurricane does. The new "useless" myrmidon will be the single highest DPS, best tanking battlecruiser[while tackling with supplimentary ewar] in the game! And with a passive shield tank it can still cram out Harbinger or Hurricane GANK fit DPS with more effective hit points[due to the extra med allowing another shield tank mod]. 4. Drones have about a 40km range. So while the Brutix is limited to 158 past its blaster optimal, the myrm can not only fit autocannons to reach out with falloff and still be usefull, but it will have at minimum the same DPS[using 5 light drones! I.E. Drones that are good at killing smaller things] as the Brutix, and at maximum over twice the DPS of the Brutix[2/2/1 produces 315 dps, the same DPS as 5 unbonused heavy drones] at ranges above blaster range. So yea, the myrmidon clearly and easily has more DPS over all ranges than the Brutix in all situations. The only way the Brutix comes out ahead is when ganking, and only at short ranges.
Ethaet Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.18 20:32:00 - [284] Drones can get up to 60km without drone link augmenters. - TQ has encountered a database issue, we are sitting around wondering why it has crashed this time, waiting for 500,000 petitions and watching the forums fill up. Post with your alt!
Plekto Priory Of The Lemon R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.20 00:34:00 - [285] Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Plekto You're an idiot. What do you think you're flying? An inty that accelerates instantly? Drones have instant acceleration, it takes the harbinger over 15 seconds to get to top speed. All you have to do is stay ahead of the Mrym and you take 0 damage from its guns. That's stupidly easy to do in any other BC unless you are an idiot. So all a Myrm fitted with EFT for DPS(blasters/etc) does is drone damage only. Unless you switch to rails, which means crap damage. And the drones are killable, while a Drake will fire at you at full power until it blows up. Plus, one large smartbomb hit equals a neutered Mrym if you can stay out of its blaster range. It's not as overpowered as you might think. And, no, I've never actually seen anyone running blasters on a Mrym, because if it runs into anything faster like a HAC, it's meat. Can't get in range, can't use the drones. So every Mrym that I've ever seen fits longer range weapons, which makes its real-word damage lower than most of the other BCs. Because a LOT of ships exist that can stay out of blaster range. No pilot is going to fly a 2km range Mrym with HACs and AFs being so common. Oh - and it doesn't take a typical BC long to gt to max speed with MWD if you overload the thing for a few seconds. All you need is to get to over 1000m/sec within 15 seconds to outrun most large drones for long enough to target and start killing them(again, since this Mrym setup is a high skill character, high targeting skills are assumed as well)
Morris Falter The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.11.20 02:44:00 - [286] Xenomorphea is dead right about the harbinger vs myrmidon situation as described. Also, never put blasters on a myrmidon. Never, never, never, never. It should be obvious why.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.20 04:39:00 - [287] I'm certain the myrmidon can tank the scorch harbinger longer than the harbinger can mwd and fire lasers at the same time. In addition, all this accomplishes is the harbinger gets to live, it will never ever kill a well setup myrmidon, where as one mistake means the harbinger is screwed. So the harbinger's only options are to die or run away, thats balance right there.
Augeas	Posted - 2007.11.20 09:43:00 - [288] Not only is Xenomorphea flat wrong about the Myrm/Harb situation, he/she also appears to be under the illusion that most combat begins at some ideal mid-range. More usually, at least with the small-gang/solo combat described, combat occurs at undock ramps or gates. So the Myrm starts off within, or very close to, (overheated) web range.
Plekto Priory Of The Lemon R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.20 23:53:00 - [289] Edited by: Plekto on 20/11/2007 23:54:17 So, let's say you are at 7km when you gate in. You are cloaked to start and immediately head out under MWD on overload. Your're at 8-10km+ before they can get a lock, and that's out of normal web range. Oops. They have one tiny window to gank you, otherwise you get away and laugh at them(or pound them from a distance and force the Myrm to leave). And heaven help you if the other BC decides to web the Mrym back. oo - look - 100m/sec with MWD on! Closing to blaster range?? Not going to happen either way unless you are stupidly lucky. Hence, why nobody same fits blasters on a BC. 95% of the time you're unable to hit with them and your DPS won't even pop their shields with only drones.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.21 00:11:00 - [290] Edited by: Gamesguy on 21/11/2007 00:11:16 Originally by: Plekto Edited by: Plekto on 20/11/2007 23:56:50 Edited by: Plekto on 20/11/2007 23:54:17 So, let's say you are at 7km when you gate in. You are cloaked to start and immediately head out under MWD on overload. Your're at 8-10km+ before they can get a lock, and that's out of normal web range. Oops. Bull**. I dont need a lock to hit approach, and normal webs overheat to 13km. Quote: They have one tiny window to gank you, otherwise you get away and laugh at them(or pound them from a distance and force the Myrm to leave). They? In this ridiculous 1v1 scenario its just a solo camping myrmidon. Quote: And heaven help you if the other BC decides to web the Mrym back. oo - look - 100m/sec with MWD on! Closing to blaster range?? Not going to happen either way unless you are stupidly lucky. I see you've never flown a blaster ship in your life. Its called inertia. Quote:** Hence, why nobody sane fits blasters on a BC. 95% of the time you're unable to hit with them and your DPS won't even pop their shields with only drones. And they flat out kill you if they are a t2 ship. No contest - a blaster fitted BC of any kind versus an AF=dead BC every time. Yes because 450 dps isnt enough to dent the unhardened shields of a harbinger. And AF? What af is gonna break a myrmidon's tank, and if it comes in web range its dead, otherwise the myrm deagresses and dock/jumps. In addition, in every scenario so far it only has the harbinger surviving, not killing the myrm. Perfect gallente mentality tbh, "If my ship cant kill this race's counterpart IF he does everything right it must be balanced!" So, I reiterate, the harbinger can only run away or die.

Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2007.11.21 00:31:00 - [291] Originally by: Gamesguy Wisedom via expirence Listen to this guy. Also, dont forget falloff on blasters, and t2 range ammo. If magically, somehow, the harbinger is 9500m from the myrm, and they have each other webbed, and they are somehow both going the exact same speed, the myrm will still win. Everytime. And this assumes the harbinger KNEW he was fitting the myrm, and fit accordingly, and the myrm just had cookie cutter setup number 2 on. (number 1 was all nos in the highs) The hurricane can successfully kite the myrm...but again, that deep in failoff even with barrage, the myrm will just deagress and leave. The myrm will still be fearsome, and will still beat all other BCs 1v1 (or make them run) except its natural enemy, the drake. Which incidentally, cant kill the myrm either, but can strip it of all its drones. Originally by: Snuggly It's just so great to have an actual reason to not die, incentive is fantastic!
Xenomorphea Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.21 01:52:00 - [292] Edited by: Xenomorphea on 21/11/2007 01:55:50 Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn Also, dont forget falloff on blasters, and t2 range ammo. If magically, somehow, the harbinger is 9500m from the myrm, and they have each other webbed, and they are somehow both going the exact same speed, the myrm will still win. Everytime. I had decided to stay out from this debate, because it is somewhat pointless, but let me at least set this straight: Heavy Electron Blaster II (my weapon of choice on the Myrm, as I still need to fit MWD, Cap Booster, dual MAR II, etc. - Neutron Blaster fit gimps the tank too much) with Null M has 3.8+4.7 km optimal+falloff range. This means you deal (at max skills) an average of 198 dps at 3.8 km, 99 dps at 8.5 km and 0 DPS at 13.2 km. With Trinity, the highest damage you can get out of the Myrm's drones is achieved using 2 Ogres, 2 Hammerheads and 1 Hobgoblin - if all tech II they will deal 315 DPS (at max skills). With the above "long range T2 blaster ammo" the Myrm deals its "fearsome" 513/414/315 dps at 3.8/8.5/13.2+ km. Even adding a MagStab II (not necessarily a good idea, as close range setups need a good tank) you'd get 558/436/315 dps. Now compare with my suggested Harbinger setup: you deal 550 dps from 0 to 7 km, or 466 up to 20 km. Does it still look that bad? Of course, we know lasers do not do decent damage vs. armor tanks using EANMs, but otoh, lasers do excellent damage on most shield tanks, or on active armor tanks (where EM turns out to be the lowest resist). Not everybody fits EANMs. I personally use 3 active armor hardeners sometimes also on the Myrmidon, and always use them on my Mega. I personally think CCPs attempt to "balance" the Myrm goes just a bit too far. 100 Mbit bandwidth, or 125 Mbit bandwidth and just 4 turret hardpoints would be a more reasonable change. As for the above mentioned scenarios between Myrm and Harbinger ... instead of discussing this until the end of time, we can just meet in game and try it out :-) Cheers, Xeno
Murder Love	Posted - 2007.11.21 03:50:00 - [293] Edited by: Murder Love on 21/11/2007 03:50:51 IMO the Myrm needs either 95m3 (3 heavy, 2 medium) or 80m3 (2 heavy, 3 medium) drone bandwidth. Having the same bandwidth as a Vexor just dosent seem right.. but having 5x Heavy drones dosent either.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.21 05:20:00 - [294] Originally by: Xenomorphea I had decided to stay out from this debate, because it is somewhat pointless, but let me at least set this straight: Heavy Electron Blaster II (my weapon of choice on the Myrm, as I still need to fit MWD, Cap Booster, dual MAR II, etc. - Neutron Blaster fit gimps the tank too much) with Null M has 3.8+4.7 km optimal+falloff range. This means you deal (at max skills) an average of 198 dps at 3.8 km, 99 dps at 8.5 km and 0 DPS at 13.2 km. With Trinity, the highest damage you can get out of the Myrm's drones is achieved using 2 Ogres, 2 Hammerheads and 1 Hobgoblin - if all tech II they will deal 315 DPS (at max skills). With the above "long range T2 blaster ammo" the Myrm deals its "fearsome" 513/414/315 dps at 3.8/8.5/13.2+ km. Even adding a MagStab II (not necessarily a good idea, as close range setups need a good tank) you'd get 558/436/315 dps. Now compare with my suggested Harbinger setup: you deal 550 dps from 0 to 7 km, or 466 up to 20 km. Does it still look that bad? Of course, we know lasers do not do decent damage vs. armor tanks using EANMs, but otoh, lasers do excellent damage on most shield tanks, or on active armor tanks (where EM turns out to be the lowest resist). Not everybody fits EANMs. I personally use 3 active armor hardeners sometimes also on the Myrmidon, and always use them on my Mega. I personally think CCPs attempt to "balance" the Myrm goes just a bit too far. 100 Mbit bandwidth, or 125 Mbit bandwidth and just 4 turret hardpoints would be a more reasonable change. As for the above mentioned scenarios between Myrm and Harbinger ... instead of discussing this until the end of time, we can just meet in game and try it out :-) Cheers, Xeno Yes it does. Considering the myrmidon has an extra mid which can fit a tracking disruptor and bring the harbinger's optimal down to nothing. Considering the myrmidon has a full 6 slot tank while the harbinger has making do with 5. Considering the myrmidon has a massive armor rep bonus while the harbinger has none. The myrmidon should rightly do MUCH less dps than a harbinger, especially one fitting a damage mod. Even with the nerf the myrm is still better.
Quinter Servarosius The Flying Dutchmen Antesignani Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.22 15:45:00 - [295] Originally by: Mandarth Balances out the Myrmidone which can outdamage Most Tier 1 BS /unsigned WHAT HE SAID --> /unsigned ^see this^ sign here --> http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=619601
Doctor Drones	Posted - 2007.11.29 03:18:00 - [296] It seems most of this argument is about the Myrm having too high DPS because it can run 5 heavy drones and 6 turrets. There are plenty of Galente ships which give bonus to hybrid turrets (and armour repair or something). The Myrm is a rare dedicated drone boat giving bonus to drones (and armour repair) and nothing to hybrid turrets. Players who want to run hybrid turrets, or a mix of turrets and drones, have plenty of other ships to pick from. Players who want to fly a pure drone boat can enjoy the Myrm. If you want to reduce its DPS on the grounds that it is disproportionate, do so by reducing its turret count from 6 to 2, or something like that. It could keep 6 high slots for Drone Link Augmentors or Nos but reducing the turret count will lower the DPS for a drone/turret outfit without crippling it as a pure drone boat.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.29 05:07:00 - [297] Originally by: Doctor Drones It seems most of this argument is about the Myrm having too high DPS because it can run 5 heavy drones and 6 turrets. There are plenty of Galente ships which give bonus to hybrid turrets (and armour repair or something). The Myrm is a rare dedicated drone boat giving bonus to drones (and armour repair) and nothing to hybrid turrets. Players who want to run hybrid turrets, or a mix of turrets and drones, have plenty of other ships to pick from. Players who want to fly a pure drone boat can enjoy the Myrm. If you want to reduce its DPS on the grounds that it is disproportionate, do so by reducing its turret count from 6 to 2, or something like that. It could keep 6 high slots for Drone Link Augmentors or Nos but reducing the turret count will lower the DPS for a drone/turret outfit without crippling it as a pure drone boat. At which point it just becomes a nos/neut domi, still way better than every other BC. No. If ccp wants it to be a pure drone boat, then it needs 250-300 m3 drone bay, 125m3 bandwidth, but it needs to lose the rep bonus and a couple of guns. Replace with drone velocity or durability.
aqil	Posted - 2007.11.29 06:02:00 - [298] /signed
Vergil 577 Gallente MAIDS Antesignani Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.29 06:29:00 - [299] /singed 100Mbit/s would be enough though IMO --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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