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a51 duke1406 Order Of The Sentinel	Posted - 2007.10.25 03:10:00 - [1] Logged onto sisi and Im very unhappy with some of the changes, what can I say I like my drone ships. The myr and eos did need to be nerfed but anyway. I have yet to see anyone comment about the shield recharge on drones. When they are now scouped their shields do not recharge. They do recharge while out, pretty fast, but still it makes them extremly easy to now pop. Gallente do one of to things with their ships. Blasters and drones. The domi and the ishtar are the only 2 drone boats left to gallente. Now with our only 2 ships left, why, WHY are they also being nerfed, in small gang or 1v1 action other ships go for your drones, if you payed attention you could scoup these fast enough, relaunch and with full shield, not anymore. Drones are now going to die very very fast. They are already easy to kill, why do they need to be made near usless? Do CCP think that this will help matters when the carrier nerf is eventually implemented? As i said I understand why some of the drone boats got nerfed, I really do, but from a young player who has trained for drones, enjoys solo combat, Im not happy with the new patch. Any taughts on this?
Pure Murder	Posted - 2007.10.25 03:19:00 - [2] Being destroyable is now a disadvantage of drones, imagine that.
Anini	Posted - 2007.10.25 03:33:00 - [3] I want to refer you to my post earlier regarding drone changes... Originally by: Gaige Gamba Edited by: Gaige Gamba on 24/10/2007 23:14:03 1. Warp to mission/room. 2. Get aggro. 3. Launch drones. 4. If a new wave spawns, recall drones, and restart at step 2. Edit: Launcher drones indeed... I absolutely love that edit...Launcher drones a new high slot mod that you can only fit on drone boats, take away 2 turret slots from myrm and domi and you can fit a T1 (drum roll.....)Drone Launcher I which takes up the same powergrid and cpu as a med hybrid railgun that launches your drones at 2,500 m/s up to 15km from your ship. Only the drone travel the distance its engines kick on and it is responsive to your command. A Drone Launcher II would allow you to launch a drone up to 30km away and begin the assault. Imagine, you can now launch your drones at those damn NPC Battleships that AB/MWD away from you so that you can really put the pressure on them. If you want them back you still have to fly towards them and recall them (scoop) back into your drone bay. It would take the same time to reload the drone launcher as it does to reload any other launcher, i.e. approximately 10 seconds. Now this, coupled with new bandwidth function would actually serve a purpose. What if drones were "throw away" weapon systems. What if you could launch a webbing drone or two at your target, once the target is webbed you move in for the kill and either launch two more attack drones, or deploy normally three attack drones from your bay? And what if you didn't need to scoop them all back up? What if you could purchase webbifying drones that have limited charges? Example, they can be launched and used to web one single target up to five times. After the fifth time, poof, they just pop. Now, I can carry a complement of drones in my larger drone bay, use them for situational purpose instead of treating them like precious gems that I can't afford to lose and you have just rebalanced both PVE and PVP for drone ships. I really think this idea can grow legs, give some feedback, what could you do different if drones were able to be launched towards your enemy instead of just kinda falling out of your ship as they do now? What if the myrm has only 1 turret slot and 5 drone launcher slots? That way it still has the drone bonus and is still a drone boat, it can fit 1 gun to draw agro, pepper frigs, inty's etc but relies on launching its drones via a launcher to effectively deploy its drones against its foes. Lets think outside the box, lets come up with a plan to run with the upcoming changes and make them fun and exciting. Last comment: What role would the Eos have if it could launch drones on the battleship where they are needed most? Example, need something webbed, launch 5 web drones and apply your gang mod bonus to help the fleet slow down that damn nanophoon. Or, man my buddy on my right flank needs an armor boost and now; launch 5 armor rep drones on him. I still only have 5 drones out at a time, I must choose to scoop them or execute the auto distruct button. What do you think?
Captain Narmio Baptism oF Fire VENOM Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.25 03:33:00 - [4] Edited by: Captain Narmio on 25/10/2007 03:33:04 Every drone-user whine I've read has completely ignored the second part of the bandwidth changes - massively increased bay space. You can now have twice as many (if not more!) drones in your bay, Mr Young Gallente Pilot. This means that when they get popped, you can just spit out some moreand have at it. Couple that with a few damps and the already nasty lock time for a drone, and you can put a lot of hurt on someone while they're taking out your three whole waves of drones. It might get a little expensive if your Ogre and Hammerhead IIs keep dying, but you'll still be pretty damn effective.
Vulsutyr	Posted - 2007.10.25 03:42:00 - [5] you have twice as many drones to launch because you can only launch half your drones at a time and really none of the ships gained much drone bay size
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2007.10.25 03:45:00 - [6] Which would mean more waves because everyone's bays arnt filled with ogre 2s
a51 duke1406 Order Of The Sentinel	Posted - 2007.10.25 04:19:00 - [7] Edited by: a51 duke1406 on 25/10/2007 04:22:15 Originally by: Captain Narmio Edited by: Captain Narmio on 25/10/2007 03:33:04 Every drone-user whine I've read has completely ignored the second part of the bandwidth changes - massively increased bay space. You can now have twice as many (if not more!) drones in your bay, Mr Young Gallente Pilot. This means that when they get popped, you can just spit out some moreand have at it. Couple that with a few damps and the already nasty lock time for a drone, and you can put a lot of hurt on someone while they're taking out your three whole waves of drones. It might get a little expensive if your Ogre and Hammerhead IIs keep dying, but you'll still be pretty damn effective. Which drone bay? the only drone bay that has been extended as far as I can tell is the ishkur, so now I can hold 2 sets of light drones..... does this help my domi or my ishtar which have remained exactly the same, if the domi got an extra 125m3, I would not be complaining, but this un-nerf the devs called it has been anything but.
Amaefm	Posted - 2007.10.25 04:25:00 - [8] Originally by: Captain Narmio Edited by: Captain Narmio on 25/10/2007 03:33:04 Every drone-user whine I've read has completely ignored the second part of the bandwidth changes - massively increased bay space. You can now have twice as many (if not more!) Do you read the changes or just prefer to assume and look uninformed? Twice as many drones? Hardly, drone bay size has barely been increased at all, most ships have been left unaltered while the change has been used as a stealthy way to nerf a few select ships that "apparently" were problematic. Last I looked, for example, the myrm has been changed from 125 to 150 drone bay, which means it's capable of holding 1, ONE extra heavy drone, which is a far cry from double the drones it could hold prior to changes. At the same time it's bandwidth is now 75, so 3 heavies at a time, or some other various combination. Yes, now the myrm can field two waves of heavies, but each wave is merely 3 drones, meaning that it's gaining the capacity of only one extra heavy drone. So, it's nowhere near the astronomical figures you're presenting out of nowhere.
Centurion1	Posted - 2007.10.25 04:41:00 - [9] Originally by: Amaefm Originally by: Captain Narmio Edited by: Captain Narmio on 25/10/2007 03:33:04 Every drone-user whine I've read has completely ignored the second part of the bandwidth changes - massively increased bay space. You can now have twice as many (if not more!) Do you read the changes or just prefer to assume and look uninformed? Twice as many drones? Hardly, drone bay size has barely been increased at all, most ships have been left unaltered while the change has been used as a stealthy way to nerf a few select ships that "apparently" were problematic. Last I looked, for example, the myrm has been changed from 125 to 150 drone bay, which means it's capable of holding 1, ONE extra heavy drone, which is a far cry from double the drones it could hold prior to changes. At the same time it's bandwidth is now 75, so 3 heavies at a time, or some other various combination. Yes, now the myrm can field two waves of heavies, but each wave is merely 3 drones, meaning that it's gaining the capacity of only one extra heavy drone. So, it's nowhere near the astronomical figures you're presenting out of nowhere. When i can fit battleship sized guns on my hurricane you can use 5 heavy drones again. The myrm is supposed to out tank and chew through its oppenent with waves and waves of medium drones. Not one wave of heavies.
a51 duke1406 Order Of The Sentinel	Posted - 2007.10.25 04:49:00 - [10] Originally by: Centurion1 Originally by: Amaefm Originally by: Captain Narmio Edited by: Captain Narmio on 25/10/2007 03:33:04 Every drone-user whine I've read has completely ignored the second part of the bandwidth changes - massively increased bay space. You can now have twice as many (if not more!) Do you read the changes or just prefer to assume and look uninformed? Twice as many drones? Hardly, drone bay size has barely been increased at all, most ships have been left unaltered while the change has been used as a stealthy way to nerf a few select ships that "apparently" were problematic. Last I looked, for example, the myrm has been changed from 125 to 150 drone bay, which means it's capable of holding 1, ONE extra heavy drone, which is a far cry from double the drones it could hold prior to changes. At the same time it's bandwidth is now 75, so 3 heavies at a time, or some other various combination. Yes, now the myrm can field two waves of heavies, but each wave is merely 3 drones, meaning that it's gaining the capacity of only one extra heavy drone. So, it's nowhere near the astronomical figures you're presenting out of nowhere. When i can fit battleship sized guns on my hurricane you can use 5 heavy drones again. The myrm is supposed to out tank and chew through its oppenent with waves and waves of medium drones. Not one wave of heavies. As I said myr is over powered, this tread is about drone shield recharge and how it impacts on combat, Not the myr, not the eos.

Lisento Slaven Amarr BAD ATTITUDES	Posted - 2007.10.25 04:55:00 - [11] Wasn't it technically a glitch that the shields were recharged to full when you scooped your drones? Also on a side note -> I believe the Arbitrator's drone bay was expanded drastically. Probably the same with the Vexor. Maybe even some frigates =P --- Put in space whales!
Mr Bodacious mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.10.25 04:59:00 - [12] WELCOME TO THE BOTTOM OF THE TOTEM POLE. AT LEAST YOU'RE NOT PLAYING AMARR. This reminds me of when Shamans got Windfury nerfed for the first time in WoW. Verrrrrry similar, if anyone else gets it.
Gavri The Republican Guard Zenith Affinity	Posted - 2007.10.25 05:02:00 - [13] Originally by: Centurion1 When i can fit battleship sized guns on my hurricane you can use 5 heavy drones again. The myrm is supposed to out tank and chew through its oppenent with waves and waves of medium drones. Not one wave of heavies. Lols, that be some expensive ammo there, a mil per drone.... No thanks.
Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services	Posted - 2007.10.25 05:05:00 - [14] The ability to destroy drones is a designed drawback for an EW-immune better tracking weapon system that uses no slots or fittings and can be deployed in multiple waves with differing capabilities.
Keithos Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.25 05:16:00 - [15] Originally by: Mr Bodacious WELCOME TO THE BOTTOM OF THE TOTEM POLE. AT LEAST YOU'RE NOT PLAYING AMARR. This reminds me of when Shamans got Windfury nerfed for the first time in WoW. Verrrrrry similar, if anyone else gets it. Actually I do and I agree
Meditril	Posted - 2007.10.25 10:36:00 - [16] I love the introduction of Drone Bandwich, because it allows ships to take more drones with them without beeing overpowered. Good work, CCP!
Kayna Eelai Gallente GNATHIC	Posted - 2007.10.25 10:45:00 - [17] when i heard about the drone shield change i was worried. i tried to find out more about this but could not. now that i know they DO recharge shield, but have to be in space, and they do it faster than they did before... i am relieved. in missions, if a drone got aggro i just scooped it back, to lose aggro and released it again, telling it to attack. now i will do the same, except i'll wait a bit more before the final engage command, so to have it's shield recharge a bit. ofc the drone shield change hit the pvpers most, as they can't just call back drones, release em knowing no1 would attack them, and wait for shield recharge to attack. however, i think it's a good change, also for pvp... now the battles will actually be more between players and their ships, than just drones drones drones. fixed to 23.15 kB (23710 bytes)
Acoco Osiris Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.10.25 10:45:00 - [18] Originally by: Meditril I love the introduction of Drone Bandwich, because it allows ships to take more drones with them without beeing overpowered. Good work, CCP! Few of them can take more drones (in fact some have LESS room, notably the Eos), and there were ships which pointlessly suffered from the nerfbat. Myrm should've gotten 80 mbit at the least, for 2 heavies and 3 mediums. There is no way in hell I'll stand for the Vexor having the same drone control as the Myrm. The nerf to the Ishkur drone control was pointless. From what I hear, the sole redeeming quality of the Eos over its fleet command counterparts was its good DPS with 5 heavy drones. Now, it does similarly low DPS, has ****ty gang links, and still doesn't have the good tank the other races have going. ------------------------------ One more soldier off to war... And one Velator in my hangars.
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0	Posted - 2007.10.25 10:49:00 - [19] Edited by: Sokratesz on 25/10/2007 10:49:47 Originally by: Anini I absolutely love that edit...Launcher drones a new high slot mod that you can only fit on drone boats, take away 2 turret slots from myrm and domi and you can fit a T1 (drum roll.....)Drone Launcher I which takes up the same powergrid and cpu as a med hybrid railgun that launches your drones at 2,500 m/s up to 15km from your ship. Only the drone travel the distance its engines kick on and it is responsive to your command. A Drone Launcher II would allow you to launch a drone up to 30km away and begin the assault. Imagine, you can now launch your drones at those damn NPC Battleships that AB/MWD away from you so that you can really put the pressure on them. If you want them back you still have to fly towards them and recall them (scoop) back into your drone bay. It would take the same time to reload the drone launcher as it does to reload any other launcher, i.e. approximately 10 seconds. Paradox V2.0 is recruiting!
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.10.25 11:03:00 - [20] Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 25/10/2007 11:03:21 Originally by: Captain Narmio Edited by: Captain Narmio on 25/10/2007 03:33:04 Every drone-user whine I've read has completely ignored the second part of the bandwidth changes - massively increased bay space. Eat less mushrooms. After the effects have worn off, let me show you the drone bay of the Eos: decreased. No, it makes no sense whatsoever given we now have the drone bandwidth thingy, but there you have it. Oh, you mean the ship that actually got a slight drone bay increase, the Ishkur? The same ship that was bizarrely also massively nerfed in the drone use department? I know that actually checking facts before spouting off is to troublesome, but life's a *****.

Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.10.25 11:18:00 - [21] Originally by: Pure Murder Being destroyable is now a disadvantage of drones, imagine that. People who said 'Drones are the pwn.' would get 'Drones are destructable DPS, they are fine.' as response. With the new changes. drones are destructable DPS for all ships, not just the ones with great alpha, and people are whining
Kayna Eelai Gallente GNATHIC	Posted - 2007.10.25 11:19:00 - [22] well, as i already mentioned, i hope to see more PVP (player vs player) instead all this crappy DVD/DVP (drone vs drone/drone vs player) fixed to 23.15 kB (23710 bytes)
Vyktor Abyss The Abyss Corporation Abyss Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.25 11:21:00 - [23] To the OP: As a Gallente specialised pilot (I can't even fly other race frigates) - I'm VERY upset at all the nerfs coming our way. Oddly enough though I can honestly say that I'm happy about the scoop and insta-recharge of drone shields. I've always carried spare drones on my Dominix or Ishtar anyway because I'd rather the enemywas wasting their time attacking my drones rather than my ship. I'd never scoop my drones unless disengaging or to remove aggro. It used to annoy me greatly when I'd be fighting a myrmidon specifically where I knew to kill one of their Ogre IIs would be very worthwhile, only to see them being scooped to recharge. It is fair enough to remove the insta-repair so long as the recharge rate is high enough. A small remote rep instead of a Salvager isn't to harmful. The real harm comes from every other race getting buffed dronebay sizes, Gallente having reduced dronebays AND ridiculous drone bandwidth limitations put on us to effectively kill half our drone ships effectiveness. - Ideas are my business...maybe thats why I'm always skint! Please read my ideas
Mr Ignitious Gallente Kingpins	Posted - 2007.10.25 11:23:00 - [24] so whenever i go out shopping for my 2m a piece hammerhead 2 people want them to be more easily killed? thats cool, every time to you kill a wave i gotta put 10 mil more into it. i wouldn't care if ccp found a way to make t2 drones less expensive...cuz seriously, thats ****ing ridiculous that i should have to pay that much for destructible ammo... also, about ships getting drone bay increased, like 2 ships had a noticable change. like people said, eos LOST bay size and had the drone bandwidth limited. if they wanna stay true to their word then they would have to increase it more. i think the vexor went from 75m3 to 100m3 with bandwidth of 75, so it's just about the same. someone already pointed out the myrm. the myrm can have 3 wave of mediums. if you expect to kill anyone you're going to use t2 drones and then we're back to drones costing way to damn much to just pick up and suicide on a target. i suppose the only real remedy i can think of is this (it PAINS me to say this...) start fitting remote reppers on all drone ships...(i just puked a little in my mouth) but thats the only real remedy for the current proposed situation.
a51 duke1406 Order Of The Sentinel	Posted - 2007.10.25 20:08:00 - [25] At least some people have put in some taught on this, this has been over looked by many, I doubt most of the comunity will know about the changes to drones untill they have already been introduced. As i said I understand why some of the gallente ships have been nerfed, but why has every single drone ship have had this extra and un-needed nerf. Are drones so overpowered that they need to be made even easier to kill. As the shield currently seems to be on the test server, the recharge rate on orge 2s, seems to not be able to stand up to anything. Well as other nerfs have come in we will just have to figure out a way get around it, as we did with nos etc. But still why nerf something that does not need nerfing!!! This game is starting to annoy me to a huge extent. Every patch that comes out eventually nerfs something. We have gotten a few new ships, that we did not need. The release of Trinity has been dominated by "whiners" like me, rather then looking forward to new graohics, ships etc.
Monticore D'Muertos Caldari United Society Starfleet Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.10.25 20:28:00 - [26] is remote repping your drones viable?
CampyloBacter Gallente Chlamydia Online	Posted - 2007.10.25 20:49:00 - [27] Would drone shield recharge skills ie. drone shield management and drone shield operation be an idea?
Dracon Zethera	Posted - 2007.10.25 21:15:00 - [28] Adapt and move on.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Blood Corsair's	Posted - 2007.10.26 04:00:00 - [29] Originally by: Centurion1 Originally by: Amaefm Originally by: Captain Narmio Edited by: Captain Narmio on 25/10/2007 03:33:04 Every drone-user whine I've read has completely ignored the second part of the bandwidth changes - massively increased bay space. You can now have twice as many (if not more!) Do you read the changes or just prefer to assume and look uninformed? Twice as many drones? Hardly, drone bay size has barely been increased at all, most ships have been left unaltered while the change has been used as a stealthy way to nerf a few select ships that "apparently" were problematic. Last I looked, for example, the myrm has been changed from 125 to 150 drone bay, which means it's capable of holding 1, ONE extra heavy drone, which is a far cry from double the drones it could hold prior to changes. At the same time it's bandwidth is now 75, so 3 heavies at a time, or some other various combination. Yes, now the myrm can field two waves of heavies, but each wave is merely 3 drones, meaning that it's gaining the capacity of only one extra heavy drone. So, it's nowhere near the astronomical figures you're presenting out of nowhere. When i can fit battleship sized guns on my hurricane you can use 5 heavy drones again. The myrm is supposed to out tank and chew through its oppenent with waves and waves of medium drones. Not one wave of heavies. Most ret@rded thing I've ever heard. You know how much T2 hammerhead cost? I'd lose more in drones in one fight than the cost of your entire ship. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I
Stuart Price Caldari Havoc Inc	Posted - 2007.10.26 04:17:00 - [30] I don't care about the cost of t2 gear because cost is an effect of market forces, therefore largely artificial. Stats are not. Every single time someone summons the whaaaambulance over drone bandwidth and their inability to throw out triple the dps of other ships in their class any more; I smile a little more. But of course, they fail to see the improvements being made to drone AI and drone control interface as well. Lastly, god forbid that some people should learn how to fly their ships. It was like this for Caldari ships after they changes missiles to be affected by the size and speed of the target; shall we go back to the days when a cruise raven could pop three inties in one volley? Or maybe we should remove the stacking penalty on modules and have invincible tanks and gankgeddons back? I think not. These drone changes will not stop the better players using their droneboats to kick arse. It will merely show up the lack of skill in those who are used to flying overpowered ships. "I got soul but I'm not a soldier"

Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2007.10.26 04:43:00 - [31] The myrm nerf has been incoming for months, you all knew it was coming yet everyone acts all surprised. Maybe now we will see some of the drone ship setups actually using guns in their high slots instead of just relying on Nos/Neuts. Originally by: MOTOK0 A bit like the second coming of jesus only with screaming and tears and whine threads.
Shiken Kan	Posted - 2007.10.26 04:49:00 - [32] i really like the idea of that drone repair unit as a mid or loslot module.
Xaldor	Posted - 2007.10.26 05:05:00 - [33] Originally by: Paulo Damarr The myrm nerf has been incoming for months, you all knew it was coming yet everyone acts all surprised. Maybe now we will see some of the drone ship setups actually using guns in their high slots instead of just relying on Nos/Neuts. I don't think the changes will affect ships with reserves, it is people that squeeze the biggest drones into their small ships. Sticking 5 mediums into a ship with 50m3 drone space or 5 heavies for ships with 125m3 is a good way to maximise your dps but you have no reserves. I think the intention with the bandwidth and the regen changes is to encourage people to look at the drone bay not so much as what are the biggest drones I can fit into it but what drone configuration gives me the kind of staying power I need. If you have 125m3 sure 5 heavies are going to significantly out-damage 5 mediums, but you can have 12 mediums in your bay instead of 5 heavies, if your drones are more vulnerable and are harder to protect individually then the person that can launch 12 mediums is going to out-dps the heavy drone user if he has lost 2 or 3 drones or if he has left them in his drone bay because they are too badly damaged. It has greater consequence for the type of drones you use.
Vulsutyr	Posted - 2007.10.26 05:14:00 - [34] Originally by: Xaldor Originally by: Paulo Damarr The myrm nerf has been incoming for months, you all knew it was coming yet everyone acts all surprised. Maybe now we will see some of the drone ship setups actually using guns in their high slots instead of just relying on Nos/Neuts. I don't think the changes will affect ships with reserves, it is people that squeeze the biggest drones into their small ships. Sticking 5 mediums into a ship with 50m3 drone space or 5 heavies for ships with 125m3 is a good way to maximise your dps but you have no reserves. I think the intention with the bandwidth and the regen changes is to encourage people to look at the drone bay not so much as what are the biggest drones I can fit into it but what drone configuration gives me the kind of staying power I need. If you have 125m3 sure 5 heavies are going to significantly out-damage 5 mediums, but you can have 12 mediums in your bay instead of 5 heavies, if your drones are more vulnerable and are harder to protect individually then the person that can launch 12 mediums is going to out-dps the heavy drone user if he has lost 2 or 3 drones or if he has left them in his drone bay because they are too badly damaged. It has greater consequence for the type of drones you use. That should be the players choice not something that ccp forces upon you. If you don't want to have reserves then go all heavies if you want reserves go with mediums its about how you want to play and really ccp is deciding how your supposed to play your ships with most of these nerfs
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2007.10.26 05:17:00 - [35] Originally by: Xaldor Stuff I might be talking out of my backside but I think the whole bandwidth thing is down to more than just spares, I can fly some of the T1 drone ships and I can see the extra space along with the incentive of not packing in the biggest drones you can creating more tactical flexibility among the more creative pilots. You can now pack combat drones with EW drones or logistical drones, The extra 25m3 the Vexor and Myrmidon now have can contain a greater combination of drones. Originally by: MOTOK0 A bit like the second coming of jesus only with screaming and tears and whine threads.
Xaldor	Posted - 2007.10.26 05:40:00 - [36] Originally by: Vulsutyr That should be the players choice not something that ccp forces upon you. If you don't want to have reserves then go all heavies if you want reserves go with mediums its about how you want to play and really ccp is deciding how your supposed to play your ships with most of these nerfs There is still a choice, you can fit heavies instead of mediums. The Myrm change was to lower it's maximum damage output via a reduction in bandwidth because it significantly outgunned other battlecruisers. 4x Ogre IIs with maxed skill is still 380dps compared to 238dps of 5x Hammerhead IIs. Having 475dps from 5x Ogre IIs with the ability to protect them a lot easier didn't really make for an environment where you had much of a choice. I am not pro-nerfing, especially to drones. Despite being Caldari I have twice as much SP in drones than I do Missile skills.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.26 05:48:00 - [37] Originally by: Mr Bodacious WELCOME TO THE BOTTOM OF THE TOTEM POLE. AT LEAST YOU'RE NOT PLAYING AMARR. This reminds me of when Shamans got Windfury nerfed for the first time in WoW. Verrrrrry similar, if anyone else gets it. LoL yes.
Kanoba	Posted - 2007.10.26 07:09:00 - [38] Originally by: Captain Narmio Edited by: Captain Narmio on 25/10/2007 03:33:04 Every drone-user whine I've read has completely ignored the second part of the bandwidth changes - massively increased bay space. You can now have twice as many (if not more!) drones in your bay, Mr Young Gallente Pilot. This means that when they get popped, you can just spit out some moreand have at it. Couple that with a few damps and the already nasty lock time for a drone, and you can put a lot of hurt on someone while they're taking out your three whole waves of drones. It might get a little expensive if your Ogre and Hammerhead IIs keep dying, but you'll still be pretty damn effective. absolutely fine by me - provided the price on T2's goes down!!!
wide Gallente	Posted - 2007.10.26 08:03:00 - [39] Edited by: wide on 26/10/2007 08:04:07 this seems like terrible news. although i haven't had a chance to try the changes, i was under the impression the community felt that changes to drones were needed to improve drones, not nerf them.
Billy Bobbb	Posted - 2007.10.26 08:55:00 - [40] Originally by: Stuart Price I don't care about the cost of t2 gear because cost is an effect of market forces, therefore largely artificial. Stats are not. Every single time someone summons the whaaaambulance over drone bandwidth and their inability to throw out triple the dps of other ships in their class any more; I smile a little more. But of course, they fail to see the improvements being made to drone AI and drone control interface as well. Lastly, god forbid that some people should learn how to fly their ships. It was like this for Caldari ships after they changes missiles to be affected by the size and speed of the target; shall we go back to the days when a cruise raven could pop three inties in one volley? Or maybe we should remove the stacking penalty on modules and have invincible tanks and gankgeddons back? I think not. These drone changes will not stop the better players using their droneboats to kick arse. It will merely show up the lack of skill in those who are used to flying overpowered ships. Actualy yes.. A Battleship SHOULD be able to alpha strike a Frig class hull. I Don't really care if it is a T2 Frig hull or not . A BS should allways Own a frigate. For that mater a BS should also own a Cruiser. You see chief.. The way things are in real life goes like this. The bigger better armed ship wins against the little ship. (1vs1) But seriusly .. Frigs should be insta poped by anything larger then its class. And a inty is nothing more then a fast frig. I personally think CCP is sticking its head up its rear with all these nerfs. But mehh they are going to do what they want to do.. Not what is best for us.

Dzajic Gallente	Posted - 2007.10.26 09:07:00 - [41] Originally by: Xaldor Originally by: Vulsutyr 4x Ogre IIs with maxed skill is still 380dps compared to 238dps of 5x Hammerhead IIs. Having 475dps from 5x Ogre IIs with the ability to protect them a lot easier didn't really make for an environment where you had much of a choice. Except, its not 4xOgre II, its 2x Ogre II, 2x Hammerhead II and 1 Hobogoblin II, its some 310DPS from dones now.
R'adeh Gallente 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.10.26 09:07:00 - [42] Originally by: Captain Narmio Edited by: Captain Narmio on 25/10/2007 03:33:04 Every drone-user whine I've read has completely ignored the second part of the bandwidth changes - massively increased bay space. Actually, both the Eos and Ishkur had their drone bay REDUCED! _______________________________________________ <Random sig with a hot chick>
Tanox	Posted - 2007.10.26 09:36:00 - [43] The drone scoop nerf is just another nail in the coffin of the drone ships. Sadly it seems like EVE is getting more and more linear.
Tar Kara Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.26 10:05:00 - [44] I see ... go and instal Shield Transporters and your drones will have full shild.
Soeniss Delazur Gallente Spack Lords	Posted - 2007.10.26 10:24:00 - [45] Edited by: Soeniss Delazur on 26/10/2007 10:24:35 That's a hell lot of information right now about the drone changes, but nobody's mentioned anything about sentry drones. Since they are my primary weapon I feel a bit concerned. I really hope they won't be given a bigger bandwith than heavies, mainly because I don't see any of the pros of getting the new drone software being applicable on them: - I fail to see how one could have a use of drone thrower modules loaded with sentries, that would sound weird - Having more sentry drone types in the drone bay thanks to a larger bay wouldn't help much, since they are mainly used for PvE and you know what damage type you¦re gonna be dealing depending on the faction you're fighting against. - The best pro with sentries is that you can scoop in them to insta-repair them. If you can't do that anymore then what's the point. - They are MUCH MORE expensive (tech 2 varies between 4 and 4.5 Mil in Lonetrek/The Forge and they almost never get contracted. So having them killed is nothing I¦m looking forward (I already spend too much when TQ goes down). Now some solutions, because I don't want any one-way discussion there: - as mentioned above in the previous posts, make t2 sentries less expensive. - create a remote shield repair module affecting an area of 1k around the ship like smarties do, to counterbalance the no-repair issue when in drone bay. - re-think the use of sentries in the game. If the use of drones is all about "throwing" then what purpose do they deserve.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.10.26 10:32:00 - [46] Originally by: Billy Bobbb Actualy yes.. A Battleship SHOULD be able to alpha strike a Frig class hull. I Don't really care if it is a T2 Frig hull or not . A BS should allways Own a frigate. For that mater a BS should also own a Cruiser. Like hell it should - and CCP explicitely stated they don't want that. You really want to play a game of 'battleship online'? Or 'capital online'? I dislike the idea that everyone should be flying a BS or capital, because bigger == win - it's a idiotic (and, ultimately, unrealistic) concept. CCP wants varied fleets in EvE. Originally by: Billy Bobbb You see chief.. The way things are in real life goes like this. The bigger better armed ship wins against the little ship. (1vs1) When you bring RL in the equation, surely you've noticed that all US fleets are composed exclusively of carrier blobs? Crap, they aren't... And if you really think that 'bigger better armed ship wins against the little ship', every time, then you're even more clueless then I though. In fact, all the firepower advances of the last (and this) century have just made it more possible for a smaller vessel to counter (multiple) large ones. If anything, you'd expect a frigate in EvE to have much more of a chance taking on a battleship. Originally by: Billy Bobbb But seriusly .. Frigs should be insta poped by anything larger then its class. And a inty is nothing more then a fast frig. You're one of those pilots which doesn't know how to counter interceptors or even T1 frigs, aren't you? Originally by: Billy Bobbb I personally think CCP is sticking its head up its rear with all these nerfs. But mehh they are going to do what they want to do.. Not what is best for us. What is best for you is definitely not best for me, so don't give 'us' the 'best for us' rethoric.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.10.26 10:37:00 - [47] Back on topic - the scoop & redeploy nerf was necessary to give all people a chance to destroy the drones. Everyone was saying 'drone DPS is destructible' as an answer to drone complaints - well, now it is. T2 drones, though, are kindof expensive. Maybe a production cost tweak would make sense to drop their prices a bit - although, really, all T2 ammo is expensive. Barrage M costs some 950 ISK / shot - for a D180 AC II user, it means I can easily shoot half a million worth of rounds in a fight.
Tanox	Posted - 2007.10.26 11:14:00 - [48] Originally by: Cpt Branko Back on topic - the scoop & redeploy nerf was necessary to give all people a chance to destroy the drones. Everyone was saying 'drone DPS is destructible' as an answer to drone complaints - well, now it is. T2 drones, though, are kindof expensive. Maybe a production cost tweak would make sense to drop their prices a bit - although, really, all T2 ammo is expensive. Barrage M costs some 950 ISK / shot - for a D180 AC II user, it means I can easily shoot half a million worth of rounds in a fight. Don't be silly,if you could not destroy drone before this change, you must really have been "slow". Web it and it's gone within a couple of seconds.
Hugh Ruka Caldari Free Traders Free Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2007.10.26 11:18:00 - [49] Have not been on Sisi lately, but I don't get the point of this whine ? I mean you SD your opponent, and when your drone takes damage, you scoop/redeploy just as before. Until he locks the drone again, it should have recharged it's shields again. Of course a smartbombing ship is a problem, but that was a problem before the nerf too. So why the outcry ? Originally by: Aravel Thon Originally by: Nith Batoxxx Hi my alt just leanred to fly the ferox............... I am so so terribly sorry...
Hugh Ruka Caldari Free Traders Free Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2007.10.26 11:22:00 - [50] Originally by: Billy Bobbb Originally by: Stuart Price I don't care about the cost of t2 gear because cost is an effect of market forces, therefore largely artificial. Stats are not. Every single time someone summons the whaaaambulance over drone bandwidth and their inability to throw out triple the dps of other ships in their class any more; I smile a little more. But of course, they fail to see the improvements being made to drone AI and drone control interface as well. Lastly, god forbid that some people should learn how to fly their ships. It was like this for Caldari ships after they changes missiles to be affected by the size and speed of the target; shall we go back to the days when a cruise raven could pop three inties in one volley? Or maybe we should remove the stacking penalty on modules and have invincible tanks and gankgeddons back? I think not. These drone changes will not stop the better players using their droneboats to kick arse. It will merely show up the lack of skill in those who are used to flying overpowered ships. Actualy yes.. A Battleship SHOULD be able to alpha strike a Frig class hull. I Don't really care if it is a T2 Frig hull or not . A BS should allways Own a frigate. For that mater a BS should also own a Cruiser. You see chief.. The way things are in real life goes like this. The bigger better armed ship wins against the little ship. (1vs1) But seriusly .. Frigs should be insta poped by anything larger then its class. And a inty is nothing more then a fast frig. I personally think CCP is sticking its head up its rear with all these nerfs. But mehh they are going to do what they want to do.. Not what is best for us. Come again ? Maybe you could look at RL and see that the weapon capacity is the only difference. A cruiser can still carry a ship to ship missile that will take down the battleship in one big bang. The battleship has just more defenses, but that's the only difference. It still cannot effectively survive said missile if it hits, just more means to avoid getting hit (phalanx and the like). And the nice thing is cost. Firing the largest ship to ship weapon on a frigate is a waste of resources. But this does not apply in EVE so your analogy does not hold. Originally by: Aravel Thon Originally by: Nith Batoxxx Hi my alt just leanred to fly the ferox............... I am so so terribly sorry...

arbalesttom Caldari Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.26 11:26:00 - [51] See, all those whiners whined long enough and sucked enough ** to get this nerf done. T2 drones cost much. Yes, like the myrm, it can field more waves, BUT ONLY BECAUSE IT CANT LAUNCH MORE THAN 75m3 OF DRONES, AND THE BAY GOT ONLY INCREASED BY 25m3. DAMN THATS AWESOME. OH YOU KNOW WHAT IS AWESOME TOO? DRONES COST ALOT, YOU KNOW? Please ccp, make it so that every non-gallente gun/bay blows up every now and then, to let those whiners feel how it is to lose your damage (and dont start with the point 'the myrm can fit 6 guns AND drones', cause its really obvious already none of you whiners get a ** about how to kill drones, and yes, those 6 unbonused ion blasters do AWESOME DAMAGE....). Thanks for making the myrm a worthless ship! ========================= DONT REMOVE MY SIGGIES!!! No cookies for you! Mr Nerf-O-Whine himself =========================
Reto The Last Resort	Posted - 2007.10.26 11:45:00 - [52] the myrm should have more dronebandwidth than the vexor. at least 80m/bit so it can use 2 heavies and 3 meds. im not vouching for a crazy number like 100m/bit but i think ccp overreacted here since they forgot that the myrm doesnt have any gun bonuses. Originally by: s4mp3r0r "Hey man, you're mom has a cruise missile".
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.26 11:47:00 - [53] Originally by: Tanox The drone scoop nerf is just another nail in the coffin of the drone ships. Sadly it seems like EVE is getting more and more balanced. Fixted it for ya.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.26 11:49:00 - [54] Originally by: Tanox Originally by: Cpt Branko Back on topic - the scoop & redeploy nerf was necessary to give all people a chance to destroy the drones. Everyone was saying 'drone DPS is destructible' as an answer to drone complaints - well, now it is. T2 drones, though, are kindof expensive. Maybe a production cost tweak would make sense to drop their prices a bit - although, really, all T2 ammo is expensive. Barrage M costs some 950 ISK / shot - for a D180 AC II user, it means I can easily shoot half a million worth of rounds in a fight. Don't be silly,if you could not destroy drone before this change, you must really have been "slow". Web it and it's gone within a couple of seconds. They wouldnt be changing this if it wasnt abusable now would they?
Tanox	Posted - 2007.10.26 11:49:00 - [55] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Tanox The drone scoop nerf is just another nail in the coffin of the drone ships. Sadly it seems like EVE is getting more and more balanced. Fixted it for ya. Balanced, Sure let me destroy your turrets and we'll talk about balanced.
Tanox	Posted - 2007.10.26 11:50:00 - [56] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Tanox Originally by: Cpt Branko Back on topic - the scoop & redeploy nerf was necessary to give all people a chance to destroy the drones. Everyone was saying 'drone DPS is destructible' as an answer to drone complaints - well, now it is. T2 drones, though, are kindof expensive. Maybe a production cost tweak would make sense to drop their prices a bit - although, really, all T2 ammo is expensive. Barrage M costs some 950 ISK / shot - for a D180 AC II user, it means I can easily shoot half a million worth of rounds in a fight. Don't be silly,if you could not destroy drone before this change, you must really have been "slow". Web it and it's gone within a couple of seconds. They wouldnt be changing this if it wasnt abusable now would they? No, because they never change things that are not broken, where have you been that last year?
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.26 11:52:00 - [57] Originally by: Tanox Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Tanox Originally by: Cpt Branko Back on topic - the scoop & redeploy nerf was necessary to give all people a chance to destroy the drones. Everyone was saying 'drone DPS is destructible' as an answer to drone complaints - well, now it is. T2 drones, though, are kindof expensive. Maybe a production cost tweak would make sense to drop their prices a bit - although, really, all T2 ammo is expensive. Barrage M costs some 950 ISK / shot - for a D180 AC II user, it means I can easily shoot half a million worth of rounds in a fight. Don't be silly,if you could not destroy drone before this change, you must really have been "slow". Web it and it's gone within a couple of seconds. They wouldnt be changing this if it wasnt abusable now would they? No, because they never change things that are not broken, where have you been that last year? Drone scooping is broking, where have YOU been in the last year?
Tanox	Posted - 2007.10.26 11:58:00 - [58] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Tanox Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Tanox Originally by: Cpt Branko Back on topic - the scoop & redeploy nerf was necessary to give all people a chance to destroy the drones. Everyone was saying 'drone DPS is destructible' as an answer to drone complaints - well, now it is. T2 drones, though, are kindof expensive. Maybe a production cost tweak would make sense to drop their prices a bit - although, really, all T2 ammo is expensive. Barrage M costs some 950 ISK / shot - for a D180 AC II user, it means I can easily shoot half a million worth of rounds in a fight. Don't be silly,if you could not destroy drone before this change, you must really have been "slow". Web it and it's gone within a couple of seconds. They wouldnt be changing this if it wasnt abusable now would they? No, because they never change things that are not broken, where have you been that last year? Drone scooping is broking, where have YOU been in the last year? There is nothing broken about it. Web and destroy! They only thing this will do is make tech 2 drone blueprint owners even richer.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.26 12:01:00 - [59] Originally by: Tanox Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Tanox Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Tanox Originally by: Cpt Branko Back on topic - the scoop & redeploy nerf was necessary to give all people a chance to destroy the drones. Everyone was saying 'drone DPS is destructible' as an answer to drone complaints - well, now it is. T2 drones, though, are kindof expensive. Maybe a production cost tweak would make sense to drop their prices a bit - although, really, all T2 ammo is expensive. Barrage M costs some 950 ISK / shot - for a D180 AC II user, it means I can easily shoot half a million worth of rounds in a fight. Don't be silly,if you could not destroy drone before this change, you must really have been "slow". Web it and it's gone within a couple of seconds. They wouldnt be changing this if it wasnt abusable now would they? No, because they never change things that are not broken, where have you been that last year? Drone scooping is broking, where have YOU been in the last year? There is nothing broken about it. Web and destroy! They only thing this will do is make tech 2 drone blueprint owners even richer. And how does an amarr ship fit web when it has to fit propultion, cap booster, scrambler and whoops out of midslots already...?
Bodhisattvas Mentally Unstable Enterprises	Posted - 2007.10.26 12:03:00 - [60] Big ol pile of *****s ccp. every time I log on I see less and less reason to log on. You identify THE SHIP you want, you train for it.......you specialise for it....then it gets nerfed, time and time again. *****s to balance this balance that...more like keep the peeps training (paying more subscription!!!) Personally I am down to one account now just because of the above. I wonder how many others feel the same way.

Tanox	Posted - 2007.10.26 12:06:00 - [61] Originally by: Bodhisattvas Big ol pile of *****s ccp. every time I log on I see less and less reason to log on. You identify THE SHIP you want, you train for it.......you specialise for it....then it gets nerfed, time and time again. *****s to balance this balance that...more like keep the peeps training (paying more subscription!!!) Personally I am down to one account now just because of the above. I wonder how many others feel the same way. I closed an account due to the drone changes aswell.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.26 12:07:00 - [62] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 26/10/2007 12:07:08 Originally by: Bodhisattvas Big ol pile of *****s ccp. every time I log on I see less and less reason to log on. You identify THE SHIP you want, you train for it.......you specialise for it....then it gets nerfed, time and time again. *****s to balance this balance that...more like keep the peeps training (paying more subscription!!!) Personally I am down to one account now just because of the above. I wonder how many others feel the same way. Chill out dude. ill pass on advice people have been given me as an amarr pilot through the years: -Just fly the ships you like -Fly in a gang, it wont matter much -They'll fix your ship soon, dont worry -Dont listen to the forum whines, go play and have fun
Doonoo Boonoo Amarr	Posted - 2007.10.26 12:11:00 - [63] Eve 2007--Less specialisation.Less DPS.More hitpoints.Less tactics.CCP want the gap between the new(less sp) and older(more sp) players reduced. Seeing as how the average life of an eve player is 6-9 months.In an effort to keep new players they are shafting the older ones.The loyal customers who are the bread and butter of this game are the ones being penalised.WTG CCP.
Tanox	Posted - 2007.10.26 12:12:00 - [64] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 26/10/2007 12:07:08 Originally by: Bodhisattvas Big ol pile of *****s ccp. every time I log on I see less and less reason to log on. You identify THE SHIP you want, you train for it.......you specialise for it....then it gets nerfed, time and time again. *****s to balance this balance that...more like keep the peeps training (paying more subscription!!!) Personally I am down to one account now just because of the above. I wonder how many others feel the same way. Chill out dude. ill pass on advice people have been given me as an amarr pilot through the years: -Just fly the ships you like -Fly in a gang, it wont matter much -They'll fix your ship soon, dont worry -Dont listen to the forum whines, go play and have fun Yes, let's just chill. I mean the drones changes are only for the better, since all the ships received a bigger drone bay, right? Wait a second where is my bigger dronebay?
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.26 12:15:00 - [65] Originally by: Tanox Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 26/10/2007 12:07:08 Originally by: Bodhisattvas Big ol pile of *****s ccp. every time I log on I see less and less reason to log on. You identify THE SHIP you want, you train for it.......you specialise for it....then it gets nerfed, time and time again. *****s to balance this balance that...more like keep the peeps training (paying more subscription!!!) Personally I am down to one account now just because of the above. I wonder how many others feel the same way. Chill out dude. ill pass on advice people have been given me as an amarr pilot through the years: -Just fly the ships you like -Fly in a gang, it wont matter much -They'll fix your ship soon, dont worry -Dont listen to the forum whines, go play and have fun Yes, let's just chill. I mean the drones changes are only for the better, since all the ships received a bigger drone bay, right? Wait a second where is my bigger dronebay? Amarr's have the 2nd biggest drone bays, you dont hear us whining. Scoop drones are exploits.
Doonoo Boonoo Amarr	Posted - 2007.10.26 12:18:00 - [66] Originally by: Tanox Originally by: Bodhisattvas Big ol pile of *****s ccp. every time I log on I see less and less reason to log on. You identify THE SHIP you want, you train for it.......you specialise for it....then it gets nerfed, time and time again. *****s to balance this balance that...more like keep the peeps training (paying more subscription!!!) Personally I am down to one account now just because of the above. I wonder how many others feel the same way. I closed an account due to the drone changes aswell. I decided NOT to take a Power of 2 account because of this.
Tanox	Posted - 2007.10.26 12:18:00 - [67] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Tanox Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 26/10/2007 12:07:08 Originally by: Bodhisattvas Big ol pile of *****s ccp. every time I log on I see less and less reason to log on. You identify THE SHIP you want, you train for it.......you specialise for it....then it gets nerfed, time and time again. *****s to balance this balance that...more like keep the peeps training (paying more subscription!!!) Personally I am down to one account now just because of the above. I wonder how many others feel the same way. Chill out dude. ill pass on advice people have been given me as an amarr pilot through the years: -Just fly the ships you like -Fly in a gang, it wont matter much -They'll fix your ship soon, dont worry -Dont listen to the forum whines, go play and have fun Yes, let's just chill. I mean the drones changes are only for the better, since all the ships received a bigger drone bay, right? Wait a second where is my bigger dronebay? Amarr's have the 2nd biggest drone bays, you dont hear us whining. Scoop drones are exploits. The word is: complaining!
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.10.26 12:47:00 - [68] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Amarr's have the 2nd biggest drone bays, you dont hear us whining. Scoop drones are exploits. Agreed, but Amarr pilots are used to it and haven't been top-grade for quite a while, so they just fly their ships and deal with the changes. Gallente pilots don't appear to be so well-adjusted At any rate, they may have hit a ship or two a bit harder then they should now and then, but all the time since I've joined the game, the balance has been getting better, not worse. There still are some underpowered ships / classes, but I'm quite sure they'll fix them when they get around to it, the same way they fixed some of the overpowered ships when they got around to it, which admittedly took a while. However, globally looking, things are constantly getting better.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.26 12:53:00 - [69] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Amarr's have the 2nd biggest drone bays, you dont hear us whining. Scoop drones are exploits. Agreed, but Amarr pilots are used to it and haven't been top-grade for quite a while, so they just fly their ships and deal with the changes. Gallente pilots don't appear to be so well-adjusted At any rate, they may have hit a ship or two a bit harder then they should now and then, but all the time since I've joined the game, the balance has been getting better, not worse. There still are some underpowered ships / classes, but I'm quite sure they'll fix them when they get around to it, the same way they fixed some of the overpowered ships when they got around to it, which admittedly took a while. However, globally looking, things are constantly getting better. Yeah if you look at the big picture ships in general have been more and more balanced through time. But still we need a little buffing on our turret platforms.
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.10.26 13:25:00 - [70] Originally by: Captain Narmio Every drone-user whine I've read has completely ignored the second part of the bandwidth changes - massively increased bay space. Which ships got "massively increased by space"? -- Support fixing the EVE UI

Borasao	Posted - 2007.10.26 13:47:00 - [71] Edited by: Borasao on 26/10/2007 13:48:20 Originally by: Amaefm At the same time it's bandwidth is now 75, so 3 heavies at a time, or some other various combination. Yes, now the myrm can field two waves of heavies, but each wave is merely 3 drones, meaning that it's gaining the capacity of only one extra heavy drone. So, it's nowhere near the astronomical figures you're presenting out of nowhere. Do what Curse pilots have been doing for ages... 2x heavy, 2x medium, 1x light (controllable with 75Mb) and you still have 75m3 drone bay left to field an exact replacement wing or something else for variety.
Darth Felin	Posted - 2007.10.26 14:00:00 - [72] Originally by: Borasao Edited by: Borasao on 26/10/2007 13:48:20 Originally by: Amaefm At the same time it's bandwidth is now 75, so 3 heavies at a time, or some other various combination. Yes, now the myrm can field two waves of heavies, but each wave is merely 3 drones, meaning that it's gaining the capacity of only one extra heavy drone. So, it's nowhere near the astronomical figures you're presenting out of nowhere. Do what Curse pilots have been doing for ages... 2x heavy, 2x medium, 1x light (controllable with 75Mb) and you still have 75m3 drone bay left to field an exact replacement wing or something else for variety. There is only one problem - Myrm is a "little bit" slower than curse. And in PVE you just won't be able to manage 3 dron classes at same time.
Shiken Kan	Posted - 2007.10.26 14:22:00 - [73] actually the only change for a standard rsd fitted droneboat is that you actually have to scoop the drones before your foe achieves a lock as opposed to be half asleep waken up only by the growing red bar on your drones. with 2 rsd, that a myrmi can fit an enemy bs still needs close to 60 secs to lock an ogre, that is with a sb.
Vanessa Vale	Posted - 2007.10.26 14:46:00 - [74] "blablabla our dps are ok because drones are destructable its all paper dps ad nauseam" One week later "waaaaah our drones can be destroyed" Enough with the whining, ok?
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.26 14:59:00 - [75] Originally by: Vanessa Vale "blablabla our dps are ok because drones are destructable its all paper dps ad nauseam" One week later "waaaaah our drones can be destroyed" Enough with the whining, ok? You nailed em right in the face. Other races: Your drone boats have too much dps! Gallente: But its destructable! So its fair! CCP: We nerfed drone scooping Gallente: What!? (gallente thinks: oh no now my drones are destructable FOR REAL) Thats not fair! Other races: What were you saying just a few lines ago about how we could destroy your drones? CCP: LoL, face pwnd gallente.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.10.26 16:03:00 - [76] The Myrm nerf is fine, and the drone shield scoop fix is fine. And I say this as a Gallente drone user. Always viewed the drone scooping things as a sort of exploit, anyway. Dodging intended game mechanics. Glad to see it go. Now if only they'd do something about the price of t2 drones... sigh.
Cagot Gallente Arcanus	Posted - 2007.10.26 16:18:00 - [77] Originally by: Alex Harumichi The Myrm nerf is fine, and the drone shield scoop fix is fine. And I say this as a Gallente drone user. Always viewed the drone scooping things as a sort of exploit, anyway. Dodging intended game mechanics. Glad to see it go. Now if only they'd do something about the price of t2 drones... sigh. I hate the Myrmidon nerf -- we have a dedicated drone cruiser and battleship, so it would make sense to have a capable drone battlecruiser as well. I hate to see the prettiest ship in the game limp back into the hangars. Similarly, the unnecessary (imo) Ishkur nerf makes me sad. I see your point on the drone scooping. However, it's a huge change to the way people use drones, and it seems to me it would have made more sense to do it separately, and only then have the devs decide whether the Eos and Myrmidon and Ishkur are still overpowered. The way it was done, it gives the impression that CCP hates drones and are determined to make drone boats unplayable. But if that were true, why would they go to the effort of improving the drone interface?
Helfix Caldari Lucretia Seven Nihil-Obstat	Posted - 2007.10.26 16:40:00 - [78] So is this the first time Gallante are getting touched by a nerf? If so I wanted to say this for a while. Train Caldari :). (Got kind of sick of the "Train Gallante" )
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.10.26 17:33:00 - [79] Originally by: Helfix So is this the first time Gallante are getting touched by a nerf? If so I wanted to say this for a while. Train Caldari :). (Got kind of sick of the "Train Gallante" ) You're a bit new here, right? I well remember a time when using anything other that Caldari in pvp was rank stupidity, and Gallente in general sucked so hard you wouldn't believe. And no, it's far from the first time Gallente have been touched by a nerf.
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2007.10.26 20:43:00 - [80] Originally by: Bodhisattvas Big ol pile of *****s ccp. every time I log on I see less and less reason to log on. You identify THE SHIP you want, you train for it.......you specialise for it....then it gets nerfed, time and time again. ***s to balance this balance that...more like keep the peeps training (paying more subscription!!!) Personally I am down to one account now just because of the above. I wonder how many others feel the same way. Well dont "identify" what ship you want to fly by going "OMG Myrmidons WTFPWNZ Gotta get me one of them!!11one!!" Originally by:** MOTOK0 A bit like the second coming of jesus only with screaming and tears and whine threads.

a51 duke1406 Order Of The Sentinel	Posted - 2007.10.27 02:29:00 - [81] Originally by: Cagot Originally by: Alex Harumichi The Myrm nerf is fine, and the drone shield scoop fix is fine. And I say this as a Gallente drone user. Always viewed the drone scooping things as a sort of exploit, anyway. Dodging intended game mechanics. Glad to see it go. Now if only they'd do something about the price of t2 drones... sigh. I hate the Myrmidon nerf -- we have a dedicated drone cruiser and battleship, so it would make sense to have a capable drone battlecruiser as well. I hate to see the prettiest ship in the game limp back into the hangars. Similarly, the unnecessary (imo) Ishkur nerf makes me sad. I see your point on the drone scooping. However, it's a huge change to the way people use drones, and it seems to me it would have made more sense to do it separately, and only then have the devs decide whether the Eos and Myrmidon and Ishkur are still overpowered. The way it was done, it gives the impression that CCP hates drones and are determined to make drone boats unplayable. But if that were true, why would they go to the effort of improving the drone interface? Well as I said in my first post, the myr needed nerfing it really did, the thing could fight 2 bs's and win. It did an insane amount of dps, and had a fantastic tank. The eos nerf was a little 2 much in my opinion, now it will do the exact same damage as a thorax, 5 medium drones and 5 turret points, with a bad tank compared to other ships of its class. Anyway As I said when I started this topic, Its not about the ship nerfs, there is 15 other treads about that go post there. What I am trying to put across is that in my opinion, this extra drone nerf was unneeded and unwanted. We have lost alot and gotten noting in return. The ships I do use domi and ishtar did not get bigger drone bays etc, drones will now be alot easier kill. They have always been easy to kill, but now even easier. Drone boats have already been nerfed with the nos changes, I have done what people said at the time, I adapted. I did not train BC 5 because everybody and their mother knew the eos/myr nerf would come. But this extra drone nerf was unneeded. It will now just make my 1v1 fights very expensive. To the person that said whats the problem, a bs takes 35 seconds to lock an orge 2, It takes 6 seconds with a sensor booster, 10 seconds without. To the above post, what drone interface changes? Do the drones scoop faster as was promised? Nope, and if they did whats the point anyway? Is it easier to micro manage your drones? nope. All we have gotten is a display that now makes it more difficult to see the current health of a drone, oh and the ability to move the drone interface tab around the screen, just as well, because you hit F11 now and your overview disapears. I will adapt at some point, I and the community always does, but why was this introduced and what are we getting in return? A terrible new interface, oh and a new drone ship, the sin..... Ty CCP
Shiken Kan	Posted - 2007.10.27 02:58:00 - [82] erm i was saying it takes that time when you use damps, which is a standard module on most fits, especially gallente droneboats and is a really easy to use module to protect you and your drones. if you don't fit those you shouldn't complain about drones being killed tbh.
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2007.10.27 03:01:00 - [83] Nearly every weapon has a severe draw back, Lasers do damage that every ship has a naturally high resistance to and they use an awesome amount of cap, Missiles have long travel time. So drones are vulnerable now with the scoop fix but because of the bandwidth introduction you can carry spares and regarding the Cost of T2s its not written in stone you must use T2s you can use several waves of throw away T1s, and in any case a lot of drone users claim to use T1s so they dont end up having to leave expensive T2s behind in fast moving gang pvp. Originally by: MOTOK0 A bit like the second coming of jesus only with screaming and tears and whine threads.
Admiral Pelleon Caldari White Shadow Imperium Burning Horizons	Posted - 2007.10.27 03:06:00 - [84] Quit whining AND ADAPT FFS. ________ "It's a good day to die!" Free cake and punch to whomever signs my sig!
here'n'there	Posted - 2007.10.27 08:32:00 - [85] Originally by: Paulo Damarr Nearly every weapon has a severe draw back, Lasers do damage that every ship has a naturally high resistance to and they use an awesome amount of cap, Missiles have long travel time. So drones are vulnerable now with the scoop fix but because of the bandwidth introduction you can carry spares and regarding the Cost of T2s its not written in stone you must use T2s you can use several waves of throw away T1s, and in any case a lot of drone users claim to use T1s so they dont end up having to leave expensive T2s behind in fast moving gang pvp. imagine - in one of future patches ccp introduces 'turret bandwidth' - you can use only several turrets, not all, and they can be destroyed while active and then everyone says "So turrets are vulnerable now with this fix but because of the bandwidth introduction you can carry spares"
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.27 09:26:00 - [86] Originally by: here'n'there Originally by: Paulo Damarr Nearly every weapon has a severe draw back, Lasers do damage that every ship has a naturally high resistance to and they use an awesome amount of cap, Missiles have long travel time. So drones are vulnerable now with the scoop fix but because of the bandwidth introduction you can carry spares and regarding the Cost of T2s its not written in stone you must use T2s you can use several waves of throw away T1s, and in any case a lot of drone users claim to use T1s so they dont end up having to leave expensive T2s behind in fast moving gang pvp. imagine - in one of future patches ccp introduces 'turret bandwidth' - you can use only several turrets, not all, and they can be destroyed while active and then everyone says "So turrets are vulnerable now with this fix but because of the bandwidth introduction you can carry spares" Sure, if my turrets can fly around in space with small sig radius and i can scoop em whenever i like. Why not.
Gypsio III Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.27 10:12:00 - [87] And also if my turrets then become largely immune to ewar, yeah, sounds great!
here'n'there	Posted - 2007.10.27 10:39:00 - [88] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Sure, if my turrets can fly around in space with small sig radius and i can scoop em whenever i like. Why not. hi there, good troll lets propose it to ccp then and everyone will be happy
Lt Angus Caldari the united	Posted - 2007.10.27 11:18:00 - [89] Lag redudcing method, make drone boats pointless, Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers
Schnuur Gallente Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.27 11:32:00 - [90] Drones are as good/bad as they have ever been - see the possibilities - only 3 instead of four - target your NOSes at more than one object and you have same drone damage ability as before (i.e. you do loose more cap because of the extra time it takes to kill an adversary). And I never lost a drone unless I was drunk. Only rely on drones in Armor fitted ships, AB the enemy, release drones when all ships have targetted you, activate armor modules, engage drones and then Armor repair - you can't die but maybe you will have to flee. 10 Dark Lords can't kill a Dominix (NPCs that is - intelligent real players is ofc a totally different story) I really don't care - Ravens had a nerf that was worse - they found out how to circumvent it- and Raven is still the most popular Rat ship.

Richard Blade	Posted - 2007.11.01 12:49:00 - [91] i wish i had the answers for drones .for myself and others. when i first started, drones were the galente thing.we could use 10.fair enuff they change that sayin that it would help with lag and the skill changes would make for the same damage anyway.well i have 7 mil in drones,4x as much as i did then and still they dont damage as fast.also unlike missles they take time to get to the next target.eg.missles would get 5 vollies of before drones even arrived.als in missions(which is wat i do no pvp at all)the way the missions spawn in now means you cant really use them unless you are willin to lose 10mil in drones or more
Ashaz Mindstar Technology	Posted - 2007.11.01 13:58:00 - [92] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Most ret@rded thing I've ever heard. You know how much T2 hammerhead cost? I'd lose more in drones in one fight than the cost of your entire ship. this pretty much sums it up... The eos and myrm now has the damage potential of a vexor. What do you say we "balance" the other races to be the same way?
Hyakuchan Earth Federation Space Force	Posted - 2007.11.01 14:10:00 - [93] Edited by: Hyakuchan on 01/11/2007 14:16:45 Originally by: Captain Narmio You can now have twice as many (if not more!) drones in your bay, Mr Young Gallente Pilot. On which ship? Originally by: Xaldor the person that can launch 12 mediums Is a developer.
Romulan Dominiae	Posted - 2007.11.01 14:17:00 - [94] Originally by: Captain Narmio Edited by: Captain Narmio on 25/10/2007 03:33:04 Every drone-user whine I've read has completely ignored the second part of the bandwidth changes - massively increased bay space. You can now have twice as many (if not more!) drones in your bay, Mr Young Gallente Pilot. uhm ... no. eos has less dronebay now.
Ashaz Mindstar Technology	Posted - 2007.11.01 14:18:00 - [95] Originally by: Paulo Damarr Originally by: Bodhisattvas Big ol pile of *****s ccp. every time I log on I see less and less reason to log on. You identify THE SHIP you want, you train for it.......you specialise for it....then it gets nerfed, time and time again. ***s to balance this balance that...more like keep the peeps training (paying more subscription!!!) Personally I am down to one account now just because of the above. I wonder how many others feel the same way. Well dont "identify" what ship you want to fly by going "OMG Myrmidons WTFPWNZ Gotta get me one of them!!11one!!" no. instead do like I do and pick a ship that totaly sucks and smack your head into a brick wall for a while. "But I wana fly a pilgrim! There has got to be a way to fit it still! ..! Why won't it work! oh atleast I am not getting nerfed any time soon... wait. damn. 50Mb bandwidth? **! There went my dps..."
Zed Nash Solarflare Heavy Industries Pure.	Posted - 2007.11.02 00:56:00 - [96] The Eos nerf was overdone, lose 2 high or lose the 5 (unbonused) heavies, not both. I've sold mine, probably won't ever fly her again, no reason to given the poor gang bonuses, tank, and now DPS. The Myrm nerf was needed, sorry guys, it was so unbalanced I refused to fly it, made me feel dirty............ No reason to nerf the Ishkur, seriously, she was a rarely used anyway. Scooping, meh, people like to Chicken Little this one. Seriously, getting your drones shot in PvE is not an issue if you're even halfway competent, and I don't go into a PvP situation wondering if my drones are gonna get shot, I know they will. Losing drones is part of the price you pay, I'd gladly pay it for the flexibility the drone ships provide. The "new and improved drone AI" just means one thing, borked drones for a few weeks while they work on it. Been here long enough to see what happens when they play with drone AI. Who knows what faction drones will bring to the table, this alone has me actually looking forward to the next patch. Am I upset my preferred playstyle got a kick in the backside? Not really.
Bodhisattvas Mentally Unstable Enterprises	Posted - 2007.11.02 02:52:00 - [97] Originally by: Captain Narmio Edited by: Captain Narmio on 25/10/2007 03:33:04 Every drone-user whine I've read has completely ignored the second part of the bandwidth changes - massively increased bay space. You can now have twice as many (if not more!) drones in your bay, Mr Young Gallente Pilot. This means that when they get popped, you can just spit out some moreand have at it. Couple that with a few damps and the already nasty lock time for a drone, and you can put a lot of hurt on someone while they're taking out your three whole waves of drones. It might get a little expensive if your Ogre and Hammerhead IIs keep dying, but you'll still be pretty damn effective. You Stupido........I don't have to explain why...ignorance is bliss....that explains away the slight smile your avator has.


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