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agram tabris Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.10.25 14:32:00 - [1] Edited by: agram tabris on 25/10/2007 14:32:32 hi ppl. i just checked the changes coming with next expansion. i really hope this is a bad joke. don't get me wrong: i'm playing eve for more than 2 years now - and i never whined or complained about changes..even not when they seriously influenced my way of playing.. i did not complain about the nanofieber nerf when i was fitting my ships to be speedtanks/fast hard-hitters. nanofiebers were ok for more than 1,5 years, they stayed untouched for couple of patches and suddenly ccp felt they need a nerf? but ok.. i dod not complain when nosferatus were changed when i was fitting my droneboats with nos. i'm gallente - so drones are my way to go anyway. nosferatus whre untouched since i started with eve, and out of nowhere ccp felt they need a nerf? why wasn't nos overpowered 1,5 years that passed before you changed them? but ok.."just use more neuts instead" i tought myself.. now you're going with that drone bandwidth idea..after i spent alot skilling time on skills like bc lvl5 and commandships, drone sprecializations and so on. now eos is nerfed, now myrmidon is nerfed...seriously..it's like taking away two lanucher hardpoints off a drake or making all minmatar ships 20% slower than all others.. you're taking all the fun out of playing eve for me ccp. stop forcing people playing eve like YOU want them to play it. not everybody wants to play with a team - there are people who want to play SOLO. stop nerfing ships where peolpe spent months of training to be able to play alone. (carriers i.e. they are expensive, skill intensive ships - they should be powerfull in may different ways. i can't fly a carrier btw., so it does not affect me but i'm against any figter fielding limitations like delegating fighters to wingman just to be able to use full potential..) you introduced "heat". you say ppl don't have to use it if they don't want but you seem not the see that those who use it have an advantage over those who don't want to use it. again you're forcing ppl indirectly to use it - it comes down to the "adapt or die" thingy.. another thing about bandwidth: if you limit a ship to have 75mbit/s , so it can only field 3 heavy drones, why aren't you consequent enough to allow it to filed 7 medium drones(10mbit/s each) and one small (5mbit/s)?? or 15 small drones (5mbit/s each)?? the last half year i felt that ccp is consequently more and more restricting certain ships/modules - and less and less boosting modules that deserve it.. so my message to ccp: stop nerfing ships and modules and then PRETENDING you're making eve better. stop nerfing ships that requre allot time to skill and than leaving it with "we know it, and we apologize .." - you can apologize once..but thats what you allways do: you APOLOGIZE and then you NERF. just stop it. i want to have some fun in playing eve - not just frustration about the next move ccp introduces; including making my skill-plans going "ad absurdum" ps: YES, i am upset.. pps: sorry for my bad english.. no sig.
Vanquished The Knighthawks FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.25 14:38:00 - [2] /signed Behold My Awsome Sig!
Sinder Ohm Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.10.25 14:44:00 - [3] Il sign this too, I disagree slightly that nos wasnt fine but the nerf it got was very very heavy. still signed none the less .... I wonder what "broken" ship is next in line
Feng Schui Minmatar The Ninja Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.25 14:47:00 - [4] The NOS nerf was fine, for ships like the NOSdomi and NOSMyrmidon, however, it completely broke the Pilgrim, and to some extent, the curse. So, when the hell is CCP going to look at these ships, instead of just giving us 100 grid and saying, here you go, enjoy the cap booster that takes up 165 powergrid. WTF.
Nilya Al'Celare Caldari The Knighthawks FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.25 14:56:00 - [5] Edited by: Nilya Al''Celare on 25/10/2007 14:57:08 Vanquished, you make me sad. As for this 'drone nerf'...people. Think outside the #%^#$ $^&@!% box! 75 bandwidth does not mean 3 heavies, or 5 mediums. It means 2 heavies, 2 meds, 1 light (if you think about it, this even gives you more flexibility. You can kill frigates MUCH easier with this combination, and BS only slightly slower). That's still more DPS than the Domi, and the Myrm is still a tanking beast. And the Eos was never supposed to be a solopwnmobile people. It is meant as a gang boosting ship with a hard tank and lots of space for logistical drones. You can still turn it into a DPS machine, it's just back in line with the rest of the Command Ships now. And before you say anything, yes I'm Caldari, but I fly Gallente. In fact, my ship of choice was (and still is for most situations) the Myrmidon. Can't field five heavies now, but oh well, it never should have. The broken gets fixed...finally.
Andre Coeurl Gallente TOHA Heavy Industries Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.10.25 14:58:00 - [6] /signed As I already said once, instead than nerfing so easily and breaking down viable setups and sometimes rendering some ships useless from one day to the other, they should consider things a little more in the direction of giving MORE freedom, possibly boosting the weaker ships of the same class. That would make everyone happy, instead than ruining the game for some, and just making happy some professional whiners who won't remain happy anyway because they're just happy when somebody gets nerfed. --- --- ---
Nilya Al'Celare Caldari The Knighthawks FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.25 15:02:00 - [7] Originally by: Andre Coeurl /signed As I already said once, instead than nerfing so easily and breaking down viable setups and sometimes rendering some ships useless from one day to the other, they should consider things a little more in the direction of giving MORE freedom, possibly boosting the weaker ships of the same class. That would make everyone happy, instead than ruining the game for some, and just making happy some professional whiners who won't remain happy anyway because they're just happy when somebody gets nerfed. Lots of games do this. It leads to what I like to call 'supermaning', where there is no such thing as a middle ground between newb and god. Look at L2 after the latest expansion and you'll get a perfect example: just constantly powering things up will never balance anything, and any actual power you obtain will mean next to nothing. And once again: bringing ships back into line with their counterparts IS NOT A NERF.
TomParad0x Caldari Silver Snake Enterprise Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.10.25 15:14:00 - [8] Edited by: TomParad0x on 25/10/2007 15:16:12 I agree /Signed Seems to me they came out of nowhere nerfing the hell out of drone boats. edit: Originally by: Nilya Al'Celare And once again: bringing ships back into line with their counterparts IS NOT A NERF. True, when I say nerfing the hell out of drone boats above, I mean EoS (By the way, why the hell can an ishtar field 5 heavy drones but an EoS cant?? hoping thats a bug), and carriers / moms. (Just to clarify here).
Law Enforcer	Posted - 2007.10.25 15:25:00 - [9] you realize they've been nerfing stuff hardcore since about three weeks after release right? this is not something new.
Andre Coeurl Gallente TOHA Heavy Industries Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.10.25 15:41:00 - [10] Originally by: Nilya Al'Celare Originally by: Andre Coeurl /signed As I already said once, instead than nerfing so easily and breaking down viable setups and sometimes rendering some ships useless from one day to the other, they should consider things a little more in the direction of giving MORE freedom, possibly boosting the weaker ships of the same class. That would make everyone happy, instead than ruining the game for some, and just making happy some professional whiners who won't remain happy anyway because they're just happy when somebody gets nerfed. Lots of games do this. It leads to what I like to call 'supermaning', where there is no such thing as a middle ground between newb and god. Look at L2 after the latest expansion and you'll get a perfect example: just constantly powering things up will never balance anything, and any actual power you obtain will mean next to nothing. And once again: bringing ships back into line with their counterparts IS NOT A NERF. A nerf is a nerf, you can call it anyway you like though... As to the "supermaning", this is not the case, in EVE we have ship classes and you need to train for them, so no "Uber-nOOb" chance here... IF the myrm is in any way stronger than, say, the hurricane, try and boost one or the other of the hurricane abilities and test them, devs could easily find a good balance there. Of course, these things should be tested well and not just done repeatedly because there are whiners who want an uber hurricane, or others that want an uber thorax, or even an uber merlin, just to say... I completely believe that a good game is a balanced one, but always nerfing to reach a balance just reduces the variability and interest of the game, beside wasting player's training time already spent for specific ship types, and this is very bad as a general thing IMHO. --- --- ---

Tiny Carlos Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.25 15:51:00 - [11] Edited by: Tiny Carlos on 25/10/2007 15:52:24 Quote: I completely believe that a good game is a balanced one, but always nerfing to reach a balance just reduces the variability and interest of the game, beside wasting player's training time already spent for specific ship types, and this is very bad as a general thing IMHO. True, always nerfing would be bad, but only boosting for balance would be just as bad. True balance just can't be had when there are so many factors, some times a ship or class need a nerf sometimes a boost. This patch has nerfs (eos, myrm) and boosts (intys), as well as some changes that people can't decide on (torps). "Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others." - Groucho Marx
DarkWynd Fade to Black Inc	Posted - 2007.10.25 21:43:00 - [12] /signed To summarize my feelings on the situation, I have to say that I also feel the nerfing is getting out of hand. While balance is paramount, and slight tweaks to certain ships will always be needed to certain degrees, yet, it seems that the recent trend is not tweaking balance, but revamping whole game mechanics, and THAT is the problem in its purest form. I have to admit, that 2+ years of changes in this manner are weighing heavy on my general interest to play. (No, Im not quitting, and you can't have my stuff). I recall way back when drones got reduced to 5 max. I was fairly new, and had gotten all excited that I was flying 8 drones with my Arbitrator. I thought I was something else. Then, they nerfed drone numbers. Fine, I thought.... Train a few more skills, and make my drones better. I can live with that. Fastforward to the more recent changes. I had finally gotten my skills to where I was liking them. Being an Amarr pilot, I was enjoying my abilities in my intie, Recons, Assault frig, etc despite the general problems with energy turrets. I was at least happy with the ships. Oh, but guess what, I was using all Khanid ships without missile skills, yet now, the bonuses on all these ships are missile oriented! Nerf me for using turrets moreso than I already am, thanks! And lets make it even better, my Curse died the day of the patch for running out of cap. The role/abilities of the ship are nearly dead thanks to the Nos changes. Fine, I will adapt again, I still like the way I can use a Pilgrim without the NOS. Oh wait! Now drone bandwidth and Sensor Damp nerfs will kill that ship too! As ludicrous as it sounds, I almost feel like the nerfs are following my skill path. I train up to use/fit a certain ship, BAM... it gets changed/nerfed. Thats hard to deal with after the 4th or 5th time. Hey Devs, I think Im gonna train and fit up a bunch of skills to use missile launching, shield tanking, nano ships next. Maybe if those aspects get nerfed, I can go back to the ships/fittings that I like to use, rather than what is FOTM. Darkwynd Industry Director Fade to Black, Inc.
bliskner	Posted - 2007.10.26 15:07:00 - [13] /signed
Necronomicon Caldari KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.26 15:10:00 - [14] /emote runs to get another pen, this one is all /signed out Back /signed. Carlsberg dont make Eve Pilots, but if they did, i wouldnt be one of them.
Ishicko Intakino	Posted - 2007.10.29 08:42:00 - [15] /signed
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr Do Or Die And Live Or Try	Posted - 2007.10.29 09:03:00 - [16] Yeah, remove the stacking penality nerf. It killed my 8 HS geddon that could solo a tempest, munin and minnie battlecruiser.
mythrindar	Posted - 2007.10.29 09:22:00 - [17] /SIGNED in so many ways. You summed up all my thoughts in that Agram, But I doubt that CCP will even consider this, after all, they dont care about us, the people, who pay them all that money every month, do they. IF they did then I think they would listen to the people of eve rather than some newly promoted Dev. Quite Sad really
Tsoula Chimaera IDEON ANDRON Bionic Dawn	Posted - 2007.10.29 09:39:00 - [18] Giving in to the whinage and starting to nerf the so called FOTM is the start of the end for every MMORG !! Seen it many times before! CCP please don't step into this trap!
Takor Ruann	Posted - 2007.10.29 10:02:00 - [19] Edited by: Takor Ruann on 29/10/2007 10:04:47 but then how someone playing only 2 months will be able to be better than 3 years old player ? It's unfair that somoene is better because he play longer, i wanna be better than him, and i played only 2 months !!!!!11111 This is what ccp wanna change, theyr core plan for this game (banner text of eve was "we reward for time, not for how hardcore u play") and now they are nerfing everything that vets can get, so newbies can be more powerfull... Simple, ccp don't care about their credo anymore, now all they wanna is more players (strange that they are still coming to such unplayable game), which equal to more money. Anyway /signed
Michael McNeil	Posted - 2007.10.29 12:35:00 - [20] I do not like any nerfs, unless its to help find cloaks, and thats it. ccp seems to be taking the cries of a few people that can not adapt, or the cries of big alliance's, that do not like small gangs, over the cries of the public. From what ive read, the majority of people DO not aggree with the nerfs in most cases. so i sign this as well.

SketS	Posted - 2007.10.29 13:01:00 - [21] /signed The ships/modules r here for a long time leave em the way they are and if they r overpowered just be creative with new ships/modules and flatten it out instead of choosing the easy way out.
Michael McNeil	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:07:00 - [22] lets try tatics... yes if your in combat in real life and an enemy has more powerful ships then you do, or an advantage you do not, you use tatics to win...
Koval Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:23:00 - [23] Edited by: Koval on 29/10/2007 14:23:46 Originally by: agram tabris [...] stop forcing people playing eve like YOU want them to play it. not everybody wants to play with a team - there are people who want to play SOLO I would agree with you about the part about playing solo IF you understood one thing. Playing solo IS NOT playing with nano-nos-ecm-drone ships only. I've spent nearly 20mil for gunnery skills, equally insane sp number for tanking and other combat skills, i like to watch my guns shooting instead of nosing and using drones and what? few mil sp noob will pwn me with nos/ecm/drone setup. It would be all fine if all kinds of tactics had their place in solo pvping, which is the reason of the nerfageddon. Quote: stop nerfing ships where peolpe spent months of training to be able to play alone That's right, but unnerf all the rest of ships which people spent years of training for, to be able to play, which they can't because every nos/ecm/drone noob can pwn them anyway. Quote: [...]but i'm against any figter fielding limitations like delegating fighters to wingman just to be able to use full potential..) with that I can agree, capital ships should be MORE POWERFUL than any smaller ships. This is what seriously **es me off, people waste hundreds of millions isk for ships when they found themselves less useful than cheap t1 small junk. If ccp has a problem with growing number of capships they should invent proper counter-weapon instead of making 1bil isk ship useless. Quote:** stop nerfing ships and modules and then PRETENDING you're making eve better nerfing is about making equal chances for others, it always makes me laugh when I see ppl crying about the nerf of their beloved ultimate solo pwnmobiles.
Ynos Fukse	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:55:00 - [24] Edited by: Ynos Fukse on 29/10/2007 14:55:53 simple question: Why nerfing some ships and not boost the others?? That will make a ballance too! Ballancing is a thing. Changing the game is something else. I feel the whole game is going down slowly like the Titanic.
Altaica Amur	Posted - 2007.10.29 15:50:00 - [25] My main issue with this is the fact that they think they can do it all at once, forgetting that no matter how many people they have working at CCP they won't always be able to predict the side affects of the changes they make. Without a doubt some of the drone boats out there are somewhat overpowered and could probably merit a degree of balancing however it's nothing short of stupid to be doing that at the same time as broader changes to how drones work are being made, specifically the nerf to scooping and redeploying, something that was needed, but may well be enough on it's own to slow down drone boats. Put simply, until the broader changes to drone use are put into TQ and we see how that affects gameplay 'balancing' overpowered droneboats is a fallacy since even CCP doesn't know how powerful they will be, at best they can guess and hope for the best, which really isn't acceptable when you're so seriously affecting people's games. If droneboats are broken and overpowered then they have been so for a long time, there are already some things in the upcoming patch that will help address this I think EVE can handle dealing with the droneboats for one more patch while things settle down, all I ask is patience.
Lillandra Peregrine	Posted - 2007.10.29 16:12:00 - [26] /signed The nos change was... imho, debateable and a very interesting change. It's the kind of change which i've come to associate with eve. Creative and got people thinking. (Ok so it probably did hit a few ships harder than others. And yes, I flew a nos-domi as well. Not as uber anymore but still puts up a decent fight) Thus far the kinds of balancing changes i've seen I can adapt to. It has as a whole been challenging to me as a player - the kind of challenge I feel is part of the game. Concerning the recent changes - there's a caveat i'd like to put forward : All preceding changes have, as prior replies have correctly observed, happened over a longer period of time. Very carefully thought out, weighed, tested and debated. Now we have a proposed heavy carrier change, bandwidth changes which affect the majority of [drone] ships in eve, major changes to two very respectable gallente ships, increases in torp dmg, new modules,..etc..etc.. Has there been sufficient thought into such major changes? Enough testing? Consideration for players who have invested long term time and effort into planning for their intended race/ships? Perhaps a consideration that Eve's races and ships have always been different but competitive in their own way? I respectfully suggest that the changes be re-considered. At the very least, keep all the ships competitive per status quo and tweak stuff like bandwidth post-rev3; When there has been sufficient time to think things through.
Krissie Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.29 17:37:00 - [27] Guys, the sum of this all is the CCP devs are very amateur, anyone playing other MMOs will notice how noobish CCP is. They take the "one bad apple ruins the cart" approach to everything, which is not the stance one takes from intelligence, but the way stupid and foolish minds go about looking at the problem... So there is no hope unless we can get staff changes in CCP, we got a crew of noobs and fools in there now. I really think CCP has done it for me, I never play hardly anymore, they've nerfed the fun basically. If they rolled the code back to kali, and lock the code down , fire the devs, things would be perfect again. ** the new t2 crap ass ships, the tier 3 battleships, the nos, nano nerfs, ccp, give us back a fun game to play, and ** all whiners...
prathe Minmatar Omega Enterprises Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.10.29 17:57:00 - [28] game mechanic are very delicate and should only be altered with great care the problem is many time nerfs come which are the product of the " we want this so swallow it " mentality one nerf creates a void that something else replaces it and has to be nerfed in turn and you begin the endless cycle of tweak , counter tweak , re tweak and so on most nerfs generally i find are there to hide deficient game mechanics rather than exploits or overpowered tactics and ships honestly if ccp wants player opinions and just to have some civil convoes on game mechanics and so on convo me signature removed - please email us to find out why (include a link to the image URL) - Jacques([email protected]) why dont you just tell me ?
Tertius Caedes D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.29 18:13:00 - [29] Edited by: Tertius Caedes on 29/10/2007 18:14:40 signed, i hate the nerfing too. Everybody in EvE can train for a Eos. So stop whinig that ship is to good. If everybody whine about the adavantage of the other Race¦s and CCP would fix this, we fly next Year all the same Ships in differnt Hulls :) And yes i am upset too, I trained for the Eos, And spend alot of time for that. It¦s a nice Ratting ship with 7*250mm and 5 Heavys. But now i never fly the eos agains. For PvP i use my Claymore. So goodbye Eos. I downgrade to an Ishtar for Ratting. D
yaniv abo Gallente A.W.M Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.10.29 18:30:00 - [30] /signed

Cupdeez Vengeance of the Fallen	Posted - 2007.10.29 21:25:00 - [31] Edited by: Cupdeez on 29/10/2007 21:27:02 /signed not because the drone nerf but because 2-3 updates a year with massive change is to much for me. I like to play this game solo or in small gangs of 5 in 0.0 which is becoming very difficult with CCP. 0.0 is going to who can come with 500 members to fight.. I have 3 characters all with 50+ mil skill points. I like to camp on gates in my dictor and try and kill or run from whatever comes through the gates.. If they nerf my carrier I'm done. And no one can have my characters they will all just be canceled. I'm getting sick of all these changes.. People don't like change but can adjust. People who pay for a game don't like change and don't like paying for changes they don't like..
Trigos Trilobi Man-Eating Village Idiots	Posted - 2007.10.29 21:27:00 - [32] Originally by: Tertius Caedes Edited by: Tertius Caedes on 29/10/2007 18:14:40 i hate the nerfing too. Everybody in EvE can train for a Eos. So stop whinig that ship is to good. Everyone's ability to train whatever is a flawed argument. Balance is imperative, imbalance eats away the diversity. If one option is clearly better than the others, there will be little use for the others. Quote: If everybody whine about the adavantage of the other Race¦s and CCP would fix this, we fly next Year all the same Ships in differnt Hulls :) How's that exactly worse than everybody flying an Eos? Quote: And yes i am upset too, I trained for the Eos, And spend alot of time for that. It¦s a nice Ratting ship with 7*250mm and 5 Heavys. But now i never fly the eos agains. For PvP i use my Claymore. So goodbye Eos. I downgrade to an Ishtar for Ratting. Maybe you're using the wrong tool for the job. Would you consider the other 3 fleet command ships also good ratting ships? If you answered no, what does that tell you?
Tertius Caedes D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.30 18:40:00 - [33] Check the Killboards. I didn¦t see thousands of Eos kills. I choosed the Ship for Ratting cause of the nice Attributes. So i decided to skill this long way, And now CCP says, Hey Mr Caedes this is a fleet Cmd. It¦s not for Ratting. Mhh ok, but why you tell me that after i skilled the long way. The Eos is not a new ship. This is what i hate. I use the Claymore for gang, because it¦s faster. Maybe i should whine why my eos is so slow and the crap Range. Maybe they fix that in future, And 10 patches later all Fleet Cmd are the same :)) That would be Awesome D
Luna Nilaya Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.30 19:14:00 - [34] Originally by: agram tabris Edited by: agram tabris on 25/10/2007 14:32:32 hi ppl. i just checked the changes coming with next expansion. i really hope this is a bad joke. don't get me wrong: i'm playing eve for more than 2 years now - and i never whined or complained about changes..even not when they seriously influenced my way of playing.. Of course you haven't whined because you've been flying gallente ships. I'm flying Caldari and Gallente ships and I think that Gallente ships deserve all the nerfing.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.10.30 19:32:00 - [35] It's a necessary part of the game IMO. Changes in content, makes certain combinations of ships and modules too powerful. There's no problem with _certain_ ships being more effective in certain situations than others, but ... when you have a ship that's better in a _lot_ of situations, then yes, it does need adjustment. And no, you can't just 'retrain'. T2 large guns take a LONG time. So does ship skills at 5. Retraining, so you can fly the pwnmobile of the day is a stupid thing to force on a game, especially one where skills are real time. I want people to retrain to fly stuff because they want to fly it, not because they're a noob who's going to lose every fight if they _don't_ do it. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? GMP and TNP
Hatch	Posted - 2007.10.30 20:11:00 - [36] I have the perfect idea for solving all the problems, just give everyone every skillbook, trained to lvl 5 from the time they start the game. That way everyone can fight in any ship and everything is then fair....... </sarcasm> there are more problems with eve that need to be fixed before ccp even starts listening to the damn whiners complain about having their frigate blown up by a carrier. i see eve turning into another SWG with all the damn nerfing.
Denga Vulture The X-Trading Company Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.10.30 22:27:00 - [37] Originally by: Tertius Caedes Edited by: Tertius Caedes on 29/10/2007 18:14:40 signed, i hate the nerfing too. Everybody in EvE can train for a Eos....... Thats a real good point !!! In EVE with its open skill to char/race system , everyone can fly the ships he wants to ... so really nobody has to feel happy about a nerf This whole nerfing carb makes me just angry, so /signed - All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me - Pure drone user... give us a mini carrier and faction Dominix please
Gilgamoth Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.10.30 22:59:00 - [38] Originally by: Hatch I see eve turning into another SWG with all the damn nerfing. Quoted for truth. CCP, I've played this game for a over 4 years now (char 'born' 2003.10.16), and I've lived through all of your "tweaks" and "nerfs", but now you just seem to be making changes for no apparent reason. After the first major corp theft one of the devs said something along the lines of "We just make the tools for the players to use as they see fit" and yet with the latest carrier changes, you seem to be going back on that and changing the game mechanics because you don't like what people are doing with them. There were cries of exploit to which CCP responded that it was just "playing within the game mechanics", well let us play within the game mechanics as we see fit and not where you want us to go. Please CCP, don't go the way of SWG and E&B, and 'balance' the game into extinction. Regards, Gil Live on Eden Underground Radio every Wednesday 19:00 - 21:00 GMT.
MTX PT New European Regiment Pax Atlantis	Posted - 2007.10.30 23:24:00 - [39] /Signed
Neo Rainhart Caldari Leela's Lamas	Posted - 2007.10.31 13:22:00 - [40] /signed That is all.

Phaedruss	Posted - 2007.10.31 14:03:00 - [41] It gets said time and time again, and it gets ignored with increasing frequency: over-nerfing generally leads to the necessity of more nerfs and changes down the track because its often the act of nerfing itself that creates imbalances and real discontent in the player base. You only have to look at the timeline of nerfs and whines in these forums to see the truth of it. The whiners will keep on whining because they'll continue to get killed no matter what changes are made to the game. Those players that truly get hurt and frustrated are the ones that get initiative, creativity and months of training flushed down the toilet by developers that don't seem to have any sense of evolution, stability or continuity in the game. Rather than make Eve an evolving Universe that benefits from certain intelligent and creative people finding new ways to do things, each patch seems to involve inexplicable changes in reality that as often as not and for all intents and purposes represent a sudden de-evolution in technology and the loss of 20 IQ points. We wake up every patch day and find not that the developers had found a brilliant new way to counter certain powerful ships/modules in Eve, but that the manufacturers of these ships/modules had suddenly become brain dead and sent certain of their designs and models back into the dark ages. While there will of course always be certain mistakes made that require re-balancing, development should be set up so as to minimize the circumstances where these mistakes and subsequent re-balancing will be necessary. This involves a little bit of self-constraint when introducing new features and attempting to fix things. Another important issue is continuity in development so there is a clear knowledge and understanding among those calling the shots about what has happened in the past and why it happened. People really do have short memories.
Michael McNeil	Posted - 2007.10.31 14:22:00 - [42] as i have stated in other nerfing post... the true sign of a flawed game is seen in the amount of nerfs done.
Sainna Minmatar Siorai Iontach Brotherhood of the Spider	Posted - 2007.10.31 15:32:00 - [43] /signed Quote: ps: YES, i am upset.. Aren't we all. Quote: pps: sorry for my bad english.. Not hard to understand when most of us feel the same way. Doubt this makes it to the DEV's but I like the OP.
ginsu gnife	Posted - 2007.10.31 16:08:00 - [44] /signed how do you take a cool ship like the nightmare and convert it to an all laser boat? i already own an abaddon, and it is useless against gurista missions. talk about completely changing a ship.. and i am also very dissappointed in the tech II battleships. as a mission runner, the devs completely mislead us into believing one of the tech II BB's would be for mission runners. the current state of the tech 2 battleships DPS are all worse than the caldari navy raven - and anyone can fly that ship within a month.
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr Do Or Die And Live Or Try	Posted - 2007.10.31 16:39:00 - [45] /unsigned
Arenis Xemdal Amarr	Posted - 2007.10.31 16:47:00 - [46] When you go and develop a game, lets see you balance and fix broken things without ever decreasing anything. In effect you'll be boosting all other things to compensate for one whack item, just to bring everything to the same level. When you have hundreds of ships and thousands of items, do you really want to be doing that? Is that even something which can be tested? And wouldn't that cause infinite times more disruption to the playerbase? What I feel you should stop pretending, is that your post is somehow a crusade against nerfing. We all know when somebody whines and cries, its because that change affects them - and everything else they didn't care about because it did not affect them. If you disagree with a nerf, for whatever reason, you literally stand zero chance of ever seeing any change from a post like this. The best way is to outline what things are, what the devs changed, what you want, and why. If the math is good and the logic sound, you can help influence gameplay. The kicker is that if your logic is sound (and most of the time its not), the change is probably something that isn't going to benefit you too much. It would be something that makes the game fun for everybody.
Cyberus Caldari Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.31 17:03:00 - [47] This is only the top of the mount tbfh. This first lots of changes to ships/modules (nerf, ballancing whatever you call it) with the TRINETY II deployment is just fisrt step from DEVS. The new engine will open the doors for devs to change,ballance,nerf it more what they was not able to do it with old engine. So basicly in the year 2008 we probebly will look at EVE and think about 2-4 years ago and do not recognize the game completely. I'm only afraid that CCP did open the box of Pandora and still dont realize that they beauty(EVE) turning slowly in the beast(WOW).
Dymas V	Posted - 2007.11.01 15:14:00 - [48] /signed Making so many changes that are generally downgrading the versatility in EVE is a really bad idea from my point if view. As someone already stated, we are going to be flying same ships in different hulls really really soon if this goes any further. Even at this point racial features are virtually insignifficant. Caldari are shield tanking EW race that can't tank, jam and do really pitful DPS with they weapons of choice. Gallentes are drone nation that are getting drone nerfs which will hinder them in every possible way. Amarrians are laser/nos users which can't nos or support their own guns cap-wise. Minmatar are speed tankers with the Vagabond being the only speed boat etc, etc.. It's all getting out of hand and the only thing that kheeps me arround is the fact that there isn't anything remotely simmilar to EVE and it's complexity. But these things may change and I may get to spend my "ISK" elsewhere...
Marine Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.11.01 20:32:00 - [49] Originally by: Dymas V /signed It's all getting out of hand and the only thing that kheeps me arround is the fact that there isn't anything remotely simmilar to EVE and it's complexity. But these things may change and I may get to spend my "ISK" elsewhere... Signed. What happens to CCP ? It starts with missile, then laser, ecm, nano, etc. You had skill to run the module, you run it well. No skill, no run. Now you need the skill to run the ship to run the module. To run what next ? Since you want to run just be nerfed or will be soon ? I repeat this statement : CCP dont play his own game : and it's normal : where Zulupark comes from, how much time he played this game ? Did he fly carrier in huge fleet battle ? Bad for CCP, Fanfest arrives, hope that the pressure of people who pay them is going to calm down. I even expect some "incidents" in Fanfest if CCP persist and dont want to hear what people who pay them every month have to tell them about the way they drive the game.
infinityshok	Posted - 2007.11.01 23:02:00 - [50] Originally by: Dymas V It's all getting out of hand and the only thing that kheeps me arround is the fact that there isn't anything remotely simmilar to EVE and it's complexity. But these things may change and I may get to spend my "ISK" elsewhere... Try RL...it has complexity slightly higher than this game. Along with better rewards and fewer nerfs.

PauZotoh Zhaan Teylas Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.02 00:13:00 - [51] Edited by: PauZotoh Zhaan on 02/11/2007 00:14:32 /signed Every patch eve is less fun:( Every patch new nerfs. There was time I loved paying this game. Now I play becouse I paid for few monhts. Dunno If Im gonna play after expansion. Paying for 4 accounts game which isnt fun is waste of money That happens when you hire ppl who dont play eve as long as comunity, they start to intruduce stupid ideas, and making this game more and more less fun. Becouse its all about FUN.
Nifka	Posted - 2007.11.02 01:06:00 - [52] /Signed CCP! Listen to your Customer base and STOP THE NERFING! I personally Like to play SOLO. I like to pirate sole, fly solo, be a solo merc, mission solo, explore solo, rat solo, plex solo... that's just how I like to play... why force me to depend on others... just cut all the crap. the game works the way it is... leave it alone.
Vasili vonHolst	Posted - 2007.11.02 03:37:00 - [53] Originally by: agram tabris Edited by: agram tabris on 25/10/2007 14:32:32 i did not complain about the nanofieber nerf when i was fitting my ships to be speedtanks/fast hard-hitters. nanofiebers were ok for more than 1,5 years, they stayed untouched for couple of patches and suddenly ccp felt they need a nerf? but ok.. i dod not complain when nosferatus were changed when i was fitting my droneboats with nos. i'm gallente - so drones are my way to go anyway. nosferatus whre untouched since i started with eve, and out of nowhere ccp felt they need a nerf? why wasn't nos overpowered 1,5 years that passed before you changed them? but ok.."just use more neuts instead" i tought myself.. you're taking all the fun out of playing eve for me ccp. QFT!!! /Signed
Pheonix Kanan Caldari Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.11.02 03:40:00 - [54] Edited by: Pheonix Kanan on 02/11/2007 03:40:32 VOTEBAN - NERFBAT AND CCP'S NERF TEAM. Seriously, it seems like you guys have nothing left to do with your time and are just doing things just to do them, without forethought or consideration for the game you love so much. Sig begins here: There are not enough failure images in existence to describe Rev 3
Presidente Gallente Pirate Hunters Inc Exa Nation	Posted - 2007.11.02 09:36:00 - [55] Edited by: Presidente Gallente on 02/11/2007 09:41:28 /signed as president CCP, we all really want an explanation how you come to all those nerfs at the end?! For example: I fly a Myrm since Revelations now, I am a good skilled player with lots of PvP experience. The Myrm never had a +I have 5 heavies and Blaster so I win½ button. It's fun to fly this ship with good skills because you are able to take some more risks for PvP. As an experienced player with that ship I just say: the nerf to 3 heavy drones for combat is making that ship useless. It's too much. It killing it. I am sure that this is the opinion of all experienced PvPer. But it's not the opinion of low-skilled player with less patience for that game who were killed in their lame fitted BS by a Myrm. The problem of that game seems to be that the majority of player are noobs and carebears sending petitions all the time like: +A Myrm again killed my BS. How can that be?½ and the PvPer take their losses mainly without petiton because it is how it is. So let 1.000.000 flies eating sh*t destroy that game because 1.000.000 flies can't be wrong. Pres G +++ JOIN PAP +++
Kitia STK Scientific Black-Out	Posted - 2007.11.02 11:14:00 - [56] I think this explains everything Nurfageddon
adriaans Amarr Advanced Capital Ship Designs	Posted - 2007.11.02 14:07:00 - [57] /signed buff 'weaker' stuff instead (ok, sometimes you need to nerf something, but not always!) --sig-- Knowledge is power!


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