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Brujo Loco Amarr Brujeria Teologica	Posted - 2007.10.27 21:23:00 - [1] So you can see their faces Viva VENEZUELA!!! Archipelago Theory
lofty29 Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.27 21:46:00 - [2] That is unbelievably awesome --- Latest Video : FAT- Camp
Micheal Dietrich Cynical Cartel	Posted - 2007.10.27 21:53:00 - [3] They could probably keep those houses open year round and still catch these guys. They get put on the sex offender list andsent right back out to commit again. They outta be castratred down to the last one, after a while it'll make people think about actions like this. Unfortunatly the sex crimes line is pretty vague in some situations. ___________________________ Never Forget, Never Forgive
Kyanzes Utopian Research I.E.L. Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.10.27 22:00:00 - [4] 03:19 takes everything. Nah, these are sick people, though they should certainly receive some form of punishment. There has to be some reason to their behaviour aside from "simply being phedos".
ReaperOfSly Gallente Lyrus Associates M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.10.27 22:32:00 - [5] Isn't that technically entrapment? --------------------------------------------------------------------
Kyanzes Utopian Research I.E.L. Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.10.27 23:19:00 - [6] Edited by: Kyanzes on 27/10/2007 23:20:37 Originally by: ReaperOfSly Isn't that technically entrapment? Debatable of course. I mean what if some of them would never have done anything like that if there wasn't a "willing child" to openly accept their approach. Actually I have no idea as to how a real child would talk to you in a situation when you would invite him to have sex, don't know how vulnerable they are. I would guess most of them would simply close the chat window but then again I can be wrong. Yes, I think some of these guys would have fled at some point while into the "act" because they would not have been able to go in with it. Ofc some of them would have done it anyway. Actually I feel sorry for some of these people. It has to be hard to have such desires in them for decades (some of them were quite old), without the chance to talk to someone about their problems. I mean let's assume you discover that you have such problems. Who do you talk to? How would you get help? Tough.
Galidir Minmatar	Posted - 2007.10.27 23:40:00 - [7] I dont agree with this program, I bet alot of these guys they catch would never normally go ahead with this except for this time when they have some kid who is 100% asking for it. Like the guy said before most of the time its just entrapment.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.10.28 00:08:00 - [8] Edited by: Surfin''s PlunderBunny on 28/10/2007 00:09:31 Originally by: Galidir I dont agree with this program, I bet alot of these guys they catch would never normally go ahead with this except for this time when they have some kid who is 100% asking for it. Like the guy said before most of the time its just entrapment. Entrapment = Police coerce a suspect into doing something he wouldn't do without them. If those really were underage kids, those guys would've done their "thing" anyway... therefore it is not entrapment... read a book and don't try to use legal terms you think you know what the meaning is. And I think these people get off too easily... I'm collecting signatures to chemically (or surgically if it on the video ) castrate all these guys caught... so I'll be the first /signed Originally by: Liz Kali Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking I owned someone on forums!!!
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.10.28 00:22:00 - [9] What they're doing is borderline illegal, since they're running a sting operation yet they're not law enforcement. They don't do it to catch criminals; they do it to get ratings. Of course the criminals should be dealt with, but their methods are notoriously questionable. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! (updated)
Galidir Minmatar	Posted - 2007.10.28 00:31:00 - [10] Ok maybe entrapment was the wrong choice of word but what i'm trying to say is the programme is giving them an offer these people cant refuse which is something that really wouldnt happen in real life i bet very few of these people would activly seek out sex instead i bet alot of them just get a kick out of sending sick messages to kids. Also pedos have been castrated in the past but they still want to harm children atleast so i've been told. (By my Socialogy teacher)
ReaperOfSly Gallente Lyrus Associates M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.10.28 00:42:00 - [11] Edited by: ReaperOfSly on 28/10/2007 00:44:38 Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Edited by: Surfin''s PlunderBunny on 28/10/2007 00:09:31 Originally by: Galidir I dont agree with this program, I bet alot of these guys they catch would never normally go ahead with this except for this time when they have some kid who is 100% asking for it. Like the guy said before most of the time its just entrapment. Entrapment = Police coerce a suspect into doing something he wouldn't do without them. If those really were underage kids, those guys would've done their "thing" anyway... therefore it is not entrapment... read a book and don't try to use legal terms you think you know what the meaning is. And I think these people get off too easily... I'm collecting signatures to chemically (or surgically if it on the video ) castrate all these guys caught... so I'll be the first /signed Those men would not have gone to that house looking for sex had they not been set up to do so. How does that not fall under the definition of entrapment? Edit: I'm not a lawyer, so if I'm way off the mark, do tell me. --------------------------------------------------------------------
K'vire Shema	Posted - 2007.10.28 01:01:00 - [12] They way I see it is that yes the TV company is doing this for ratings but the actual sting itself is being run by an organisation that is against these dirty bastard pedo's. The police are there also being provided with all the evidence i.e. video footage, internet chat logs etc. Now when a case goes to court the judge can see that an adult was talking to someopne he believed was underage. They are informed of the childs age and as an adult they should not talk about anything untoward with the child. They speak about sex and then are asked or ask if they can meet up which the adult does. As far as I'm concerned these people are meeting up to have sex with a minor, the fact that they arrive at the meet shows that they are a predator and a danger to the general public. I don't have children and I'm only 23, however if I had a child and a bloke came to meet up with my kid for sex he sure would hope to god that the police got him because I would kill the bastard. I think that these kind of operations should happen more often, I hope we have them over here in England soon. K'vire Shema Looking for a forum sig, mail me in-game with a link to your portfolio and I will be in touch.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.10.28 01:02:00 - [13] It's the same as any sting... they were invited and they came. We shall now turn to the holy pages of Wikipedia. "For the defense to be successful, the defendant must demonstrate that the police induced an otherwise unwilling person to commit a crime." The chatlog and then showing up with the intention to molest a child provides every bit of evidence the police need to arrest the suspect. Originally by: Liz Kali Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking I owned someone on forums!!!
Sir Heavy Dragonian Freelancers Academy	Posted - 2007.10.28 01:25:00 - [14] pwned and bbq-ed. The good thing about the US law they're put away for what? 20Years? The sad thing is you get unreal reports who are falsely accused, looks like a witch hunt sometimes That last one is a sad sad story.....
Micheal Dietrich Cynical Cartel	Posted - 2007.10.28 01:47:00 - [15] Originally by: Galider Ok maybe entrapment was the wrong choice of word but what i'm trying to say is the programme is giving them an offer these people cant refuse which is something that really wouldnt happen in real life i bet very few of these people would activly seek out sex instead i bet alot of them just get a kick out of sending sick messages to kids. Also pedos have been castrated in the past but they still want to harm children atleast so i've been told. (By my Socialogy teacher) This is more real than you think. These guys are all over Craigs list, Myspace, Yahoo, MSN, and anywhere else you can think of. They live in places by schools (until convicted then by law they aren't supposed to but that doesn't stop them all), by malls, and by parks. They have their own websites where they trade pictures, make videos, sometimes including their own children. Even if they didn't take the bait of this sting theres the chance that they do find some innocent girl or boy, for some of these people they may already have and may have done it multiple times. And this is the tip of the iceberg. We have children who are kidnapped and sometimes brutally murdered by people like this. There is in fact one such case right where I live where a convicted habitual sex offender killed 2 parents and a older brother to kidnap 5 year old Shasta and her 7 year old brother for sex. He later killed the brother but the police managed to catch him before any more harm came to Shasta but now she's without a family. It's more real than you can imagine. Originally by: Dark Shikari What they're doing is borderline illegal, since they're running a sting operation yet they're not law enforcement. They don't do it to catch criminals; they do it to get ratings. Of course the criminals should be dealt with, but their methods are notoriously questionable. This is true. There was an article about one of these stings, in fact it may be the texas case, where the judge threw out most of the cases because they didn't things by the book and the evidence wouldn't hold up in court. ___________________________ Never Forget, Never Forgive
LVSOCOM Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.28 01:59:00 - [16] Edited by: LVSOCOM on 28/10/2007 02:00:36 To catch a nigerian scammer. The aliases are awesome! "Rich Dimoni"... "Rich Greenbach" Would be pretty hilarious if they used handles like this in the kiddie rapist sting.
Ademaro Imre Caldari Eye of God O X I D E	Posted - 2007.10.28 02:04:00 - [17] Originally by: Dark Shikari What they're doing is borderline illegal, since they're running a sting operation yet they're not law enforcement. They don't do it to catch criminals; they do it to get ratings. Of course the criminals should be dealt with, but their methods are notoriously questionable. There is law enforcement involved. However, the TV network screwed it all up each time they did the show. I don;t know the technical reasons, but the network did not involve district attorney's and showed their faces on TV, screwed up the actual "sting" and many other factors. Almost all were let go. One of the big things was that - after witnessing a crime sting or not, the criminal was interviewed (interrogated) by a TV host, without any miranda rights read to them and lots of other details. I don't know exactly the issues involved but they really f'ed up the stings. About 90% of the people basically walked. But ABC doesn;t care, they do this about every couple months for a ratings show and have police present to make people think they are serious.
Shalia Ripper Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.10.28 02:49:00 - [18] Not one of them was convicted in a court of law. It isn't justice, it is vigilantism. That said, I hope their cash and prizes rot and fall off.
K'vire Shema	Posted - 2007.10.28 02:56:00 - [19] I found this video of one of them getting caught out. I gotta say, some people say that these people are ill and need help, I agree to a small extent but this guy really needs help, he has obviously a sandwich short of a picknice and damn, we need to stop thinking about the children and more about the dog's
lofty29 Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.28 03:30:00 - [20] Originally by: LVSOCOM Edited by: LVSOCOM on 28/10/2007 02:00:36 To catch a nigerian scammer. The aliases are awesome! "Rich Dimoni"... "Rich Greenbach" Would be pretty hilarious if they used handles like this in the kiddie rapist sting. Ima Ruinurlife? --- Latest Video : FAT- Camp
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.10.28 03:59:00 - [21] Maybe they should be lying in wait with a 1.5 lead pipe instead of a camera? These people shouldn't be on TV, they should be in the hospital with multiple compound fractures.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.10.28 04:17:00 - [22] Hehe, there was 1 video of a vigilante doing that... he'd get them to come to his house where he'd jump out and start wailing on em. They wouldn't go to the police because he kept the chatlogs and the video of them showing up AND they get what they truly deserve Originally by: Liz Kali Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking I owned someone on forums!!!
lofty29 Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.28 04:20:00 - [23] Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Hehe, there was 1 video of a vigilante doing that... he'd get them to come to his house where he'd jump out and start wailing on em. They wouldn't go to the police because he kept the chatlogs and the video of them showing up AND they get what they truly deserve GET LINK! NOW! --- Latest Video : FAT- Camp
Micheal Dietrich Cynical Cartel	Posted - 2007.10.28 04:26:00 - [24] Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Hehe, there was 1 video of a vigilante doing that... he'd get them to come to his house where he'd jump out and start wailing on em. They wouldn't go to the police because he kept the chatlogs and the video of them showing up AND they get what they truly deserve Right there. If that video is for real it needs to be dispributed so every person who even thinks of commiting this act might want to think of the possibility that he is about to meet one mean muther****** with a baseball bat. ___________________________ Never Forget, Never Forgive
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.10.28 04:44:00 - [25] What I've always wondered: why the hell do they sit down and talk on camera? Is Chris Hansen only catching the truly sick ones that need help and are so desperate that they'll talk out their problems on national facking television? I've yet to see one of them that wasn't reduced to a blubbering mess. There's not a sociopath in the lot. Also, if these are "EEBIL, VIOLUNT PEDOFILES", why haven't any of them gone to the car, gotten their shotgun, and executed the entire film crew? Don't get me wrong, anyone who hurts a child in such a manner deserves punishment that would make Vlad the Impaler blanche. However, the problem is that the social stigma against anyone who even has pedo thoughts is so great that the only places some of these guys can go are groups of like-minded individuals, and the only people they can talk to are other pedos. Hell, you've got the wrong therapist and say the wrong thing, and doctor-patient privilege will quickly be replaced with handcuffs. Like drug addiction, we need a way to identify and treat the sick ones without social stigma, and a way to identify and destroy the dangerous ones. Until we get the sick ones on the society side of the us-v-them equation, they're not going to help us take down the dangerous ones, and they're our single greatest resource for going after said dangerous ones. Who thinks more like a pedo than a potential pedo?
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.10.28 04:56:00 - [26] Originally by: Amarria Black What I've always wondered: why the hell do they sit down and talk on camera? Is Chris Hansen only catching the truly sick ones that need help and are so desperate that they'll talk out their problems on national facking television? I've yet to see one of them that wasn't reduced to a blubbering mess. There's not a sociopath in the lot. Also, if these are "EEBIL, VIOLUNT PEDOFILES", why haven't any of them gone to the car, gotten their shotgun, and executed the entire film crew? Don't get me wrong, anyone who hurts a child in such a manner deserves punishment that would make Vlad the Impaler blanche. However, the problem is that the social stigma against anyone who even has pedo thoughts is so great that the only places some of these guys can go are groups of like-minded individuals, and the only people they can talk to are other pedos. Hell, you've got the wrong therapist and say the wrong thing, and doctor-patient privilege will quickly be replaced with handcuffs. Like drug addiction, we need a way to identify and treat the sick ones without social stigma, and a way to identify and destroy the dangerous ones. Until we get the sick ones on the society side of the us-v-them equation, they're not going to help us take down the dangerous ones, and they're our single greatest resource for going after said dangerous ones. Who thinks more like a pedo than a potential pedo? Sooooo, you want to let the ones who only molest children on the weekends go and focus on the 9-to-5, Sunday to Monday predators huh? Why not apply the same (flawed) logic to murderer's. Hey, the guy only tried to blow his head of with a shotgun. Its not a crime to fail at trying to kill someone right? Lets enlist these failed murderers in the hopes they can spot a real one. There are too many liberal ninnies running around society attempting to explain away everyones problems, passing the buck so to speak. People like those presented in the initial youtube clip need to be drug out behind a large mound of dirt, blood, beaten and sobbing like the cowards they are, and put out of their misery. For those who perpetrate especially horrible crimes, they should have their achielles tendens severed, their fun bits removed at the base, and left to bleed out in the middle of nowhere.
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.10.28 05:02:00 - [27] Originally by: Derovius Vaden Sooooo, you want to let the ones who only molest children on the weekends go and focus on the 9-to-5, Sunday to Monday predators huh? Why not apply the same (flawed) logic to murderer's. Hey, the guy only tried to blow his head of with a shotgun. Its not a crime to fail at trying to kill someone right? Lets enlist these failed murderers in the hopes they can spot a real one. There are too many liberal ninnies running around society attempting to explain away everyones problems, passing the buck so to speak. People like those presented in the initial youtube clip need to be drug out behind a large mound of dirt, blood, beaten and sobbing like the cowards they are, and put out of their misery. For those who perpetrate especially horrible crimes, they should have their achielles tendens severed, their fun bits removed at the base, and left to bleed out in the middle of nowhere. No, I want the ones who think about it but don't act (and who would potentially make the leap to action when presented with a situation like this) to be treated the same as an alcoholic and to be put into a treatment program that does whatever is possible to minimize their proclivities. If they're absolutely untreatable, I want them encarcerated where they can't hurt anyone. And if they act, I want them dead, publicly and quickly. I can understand why you would want a brutal, violent, drawn-out end for this brand of scum. It does serve as a mild deterrant to other future offenders. However, a wise man once said, "When a dog is rabid, you don't torture it. You simply kill it." Same idea. They're dangerously sick, so you put them down.
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.10.28 05:08:00 - [28] Originally by: Amarria Black Originally by: Derovius Vaden Sooooo, you want to let the ones who only molest children on the weekends go and focus on the 9-to-5, Sunday to Monday predators huh? Why not apply the same (flawed) logic to murderer's. Hey, the guy only tried to blow his head of with a shotgun. Its not a crime to fail at trying to kill someone right? Lets enlist these failed murderers in the hopes they can spot a real one. There are too many liberal ninnies running around society attempting to explain away everyones problems, passing the buck so to speak. People like those presented in the initial youtube clip need to be drug out behind a large mound of dirt, blood, beaten and sobbing like the cowards they are, and put out of their misery. For those who perpetrate especially horrible crimes, they should have their achielles tendens severed, their fun bits removed at the base, and left to bleed out in the middle of nowhere. No, I want the ones who think about it but don't act (and who would potentially make the leap to action when presented with a situation like this) to be treated the same as an alcoholic and to be put into a treatment program that does whatever is possible to minimize their proclivities. If they're absolutely untreatable, I want them encarcerated where they can't hurt anyone. And if they act, I want them dead, publicly and quickly. I can understand why you would want a brutal, violent, drawn-out end for this brand of scum. It does serve as a mild deterrant to other future offenders. However, a wise man once said, "When a dog is rabid, you don't torture it. You simply kill it." Same idea. They're dangerously sick, so you put them down. The difference being that the dog was infected, and changed from a normal dog to a rabid dog via this viral infection. Pedophiles are not diseased, nor are they addicts, they are sociopaths who need to be removed from society in the most efficient method possible; this of course being death. This also comes back to the notion of free will, and the fact that these people have pushed aside all common decency and morality to perpetrate what they know is wrong for their own sick gains. The dog does not know its rabid, it simply acts as such. You see the faces on those men when the host walked out from behind that wall and into the kitchen. Typical, "oh ****" face, as seen when someone is caught doing something they shouldn't be, and know it.
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.10.28 05:37:00 - [29] Originally by: Derovius Vaden The difference being that the dog was infected, and changed from a normal dog to a rabid dog via this viral infection. Pedophiles are not diseased, nor are they addicts, they are sociopaths who need to be removed from society in the most efficient method possible; this of course being death. This also comes back to the notion of free will, and the fact that these people have pushed aside all common decency and morality to perpetrate what they know is wrong for their own sick gains. The dog does not know its rabid, it simply acts as such. You see the faces on those men when the host walked out from behind that wall and into the kitchen. Typical, "oh ***" face, as seen when someone is caught doing something they shouldn't be, and know it. Pedophiles are both diseased and addicts. They are compelled by an unnatural sexual urge to perform acts that no sane person would ever commit. Even when they don't want it, the urge is still there. Some of them, even chemical castration only takes away the tools, not the urges. They have conscious control of their actions, but so does a schizophrenic. It's a recognized mental illness, a compulsion that cannot be ignored. The "OH SNAP" people on Dateline? They're the borderline ones I'm talking about. They know it's wrong, clear down to their bones. Some are sublimating these urges the best they can when the perfect honeypot scenario lands right in their lap. They break under the pressure, and Chris Hansen profits. These people are sad, sick individuals and they need to be put somewhere where they can be treated. And most importantly: when they hurt a child, all bets are off.* The best they can hope for is a swift death.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.10.28 05:47:00 - [30] Originally by: Amarria Black Pedophiles are both diseased and addicts. They are compelled by an unnatural sexual urge to perform acts that no sane person would ever commit. Actually, pedophilia is neither a disease nor an addiction, nor does it imply any sort of sexual urge. Like thousands of other fetishes ranging from weird to shocking, it should be acceptable as long as they do not act on those urges. The problem is people who both have the fetish to begin with, but more importantly, are arrogant and insensitive enough to force them upon others, in this case, innocent children. I don't care what people get off to, as long as they don't cause others harm by doing so. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! (updated)
northwesten Amarr Trinity Corporate Services	Posted - 2007.10.28 08:09:00 - [31] Originally by: ReaperOfSly Isn't that technically entrapment? In UK I think it be classed as entrapment but This is good! because we need to get this guys!
me bored	Posted - 2007.10.28 09:26:00 - [32] They pulled this on a judge and he closed the door and shot himself. Also keep your unfunny jokes on 4fail.
ry ry StateCorp The State	Posted - 2007.10.28 10:24:00 - [33] Originally by: me bored They pulled this on a judge and he closed the door and shot himself. Also keep your unfunny jokes on 4fail. a/s/l?
ry ry StateCorp The State	Posted - 2007.10.28 11:22:00 - [34] low bandwidth version
Nyphur Pillowsoft Total Comfort	Posted - 2007.10.28 12:32:00 - [35] Heh, bypassing american entrapment laws by having people other than police committing the entrapment is funny. No wait, the other one.. despicable. You americans are crazy :D. Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2007.10.28 14:09:00 - [36] Edited by: SoftRevolution on 28/10/2007 14:10:56 Originally by: me bored They pulled this on a judge and he closed the door and shot himself. Pix or it didn't happen. And really anyone getting dewy eyed over the despicable perverts getting burned in this should go have a look at Perverted Justice. Really. Human ****. They've got it coming.
Caid Lemant Cunning Hats	Posted - 2007.10.28 14:48:00 - [37] Like the tactics or not, it's hilarious television. Especially the guy who drove by and witnessed one of the previous getting arrested in the front drive way and still showed up. It's more entertaining to me because it's highlighting a perverse side of every human culture that's always been around and how so many people react to this stuff like "Oh my god! I can't believe what people are doing these days, it must be the internet." -------- There is not enough love and goodness in the world for us to be permitted to give any of it away to imaginary things. Friedrich Nietzsche
Micheal Dietrich Cynical Cartel	Posted - 2007.10.28 16:25:00 - [38] Originally by: Caid Lemant Like the tactics or not, it's hilarious television. Especially the guy who drove by and witnessed one of the previous getting arrested in the front drive way and still showed up. It's more entertaining to me because it's highlighting a perverse side of every human culture that's always been around and how so many people react to this stuff like "Oh my god! I can't believe what people are doing these days, it must be the internet." What I find funny and ironic in all this is when we see stuff like this everyone is shocked and like 'oh my'! When the name Micheal Jackson pops up it's all jokes and humor about the very same subject. I caught Micheal Jackson at the store the other day. He misunderstood a sale that was going on: Little boys pants, half off. ___________________________ Never Forget, Never Forgive
me bored	Posted - 2007.10.28 16:46:00 - [39] Originally by: SoftRevolution Perverted Justice They have to be one of the most morally bankrupt organizations I've ever come across. They actually have child abuse victims acting as judge jury and executioner in their little entrapment schemes.
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.10.28 16:57:00 - [40] Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 28/10/2007 16:58:13 Amusing. ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
SurfinSeaOtter Remade	Posted - 2007.10.28 16:59:00 - [41] Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Originally by: Caid Lemant Like the tactics or not, it's hilarious television. Especially the guy who drove by and witnessed one of the previous getting arrested in the front drive way and still showed up. It's more entertaining to me because it's highlighting a perverse side of every human culture that's always been around and how so many people react to this stuff like "Oh my god! I can't believe what people are doing these days, it must be the internet." What I find funny and ironic in all this is when we see stuff like this everyone is shocked and like 'oh my'! When the name Micheal Jackson pops up it's all jokes and humor about the very same subject. I caught Micheal Jackson at the store the other day. He misunderstood a sale that was going on: Little boys pants, half off. What does Michael Jackson like best about 25 year olds? Answer: There's 20 of them Surfin's Plunderbunny's alt... remake of 1st char that lost his life to drunken rage
Ixianus	Posted - 2007.10.28 18:56:00 - [42] Originally by: Dark Shikari What they're doing is borderline illegal, since they're running a sting operation yet they're not law enforcement. They don't do it to catch criminals; they do it to get ratings. Of course the criminals should be dealt with, but their methods are notoriously questionable. Hooray someone thinks the same as me. This isn't about stopping pedophiles, its about making the network money.
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2007.10.28 19:00:00 - [43] Originally by: me bored Originally by: SoftRevolution Perverted Justice They have to be one of the most morally bankrupt organizations I've ever come across. They actually have child abuse victims acting as judge jury and executioner in their little entrapment schemes. It would only be entrapment if the people involved wouldn't have acted in the way they did were it not for the PJ people. Are you suggesting that simply "giving them enough rope" so to speak is the same as making them do it? Lets ignore for a moment the fact that the people they sting are actively looking for children to send pictures of their uglies too and pose a hypothetical - if by accident you ended up chatting to one of their bait members, would you wind up getting "entrapped"? Yeah to be sure, it's not very fair and finding perverts on the internet is a bit like shooting fish in a barrel. Still slapstick comedy though.
Nyphur Pillowsoft Total Comfort	Posted - 2007.10.28 22:40:00 - [44] Originally by: SoftRevolution It would only be entrapment if the people involved wouldn't have acted in the way they did were it not for the PJ people. It all comes down to whether or not they are coerced into committing the crime. For example, if an undercover police officer sells knockoff dvds from the boot of his car and you buy them and are charged with the crime, that's not entrapment. However, if he tries to deliberately convince people to buy them by drawing their attention to them, he's arguably creating crimes by coersion and that is entrapment. In the case being argued here, it depends on the contents of the chat logs as to whether these people were simply offering an illegal activity or convincing people to that potentially might not agree under normal circumstances. The laws in most first world countries have set down fairly well defined lines between what does and doesn't constitute entrapment. Those laws are a little incongruent between countries but usually it's only seen as entrapment if the police are the ones coercing someone into committing a crime. If someone who wasn't police were to coerce you into committing a crime, they would be charged with committing the crime and depending on what country you live in, you'll either be let off or charged with aiding the criminal. In this case, someone that's not the police is coercing people into committing crimes such as attempting a lewd act with a minor but they themselves aren't committing any crime. Arranging to have sex with an underaged person is illegal, but portraying yourself as underaged and arranging to have sex with an adult is not any crime that I can tell. Also, even though the police are involved, they technically aren't the ones entrapping victims and thus it's not punishable. The main problem is that the police are working with people in an effort to entrap victims but are getting around entrapment laws by not talking to the victims themselves. This **** would not fly if I ran the world >: \|. Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2007.10.28 23:02:00 - [45] As I understand their methodology, it is the perverts doing the contacting, not the other way around so it's more a case of you asking an undercover police officer unprompted to sell you DVDs. And how is this "coercing" precisely? Quote: co+erce (kō-vrs') pronunciation tr.v., -erced, -erc+ing, -erc+es. 1. To force to act or think in a certain way by use of pressure, threats, or intimidation; compel. 2. To dominate, restrain, or control forcibly: coerced the strikers into compliance. See synonyms at force. 3. To bring about by force or threat: efforts to coerce agreement. Which of those definitions does this conform to? Now since I doubt these wonderful people would do any of those things with a policeman looking over their shoulder (and if they would, they need locking up for different reasons) I am inclined to believe that they are choosing to commit a crime. They're just stupid enough to do it on national television. If their impulse control is that poor then I'm glad they're getting snared by decoys. As I suggested above it's not like any normal person would fall for their Jedi mind tricks. The alternative argument would almost seem to run along the lines of "It's reasonable for someone to not be able to resist the prospect of a willing 12 year old"... :/
Ravelin Eb Endgame.	Posted - 2007.10.28 23:56:00 - [46] It disgusts me to think of this, how can they entrap people for the sake of entertainment. Signature Your signature exceeds the 400 pixel width limit allowed on the forums. -Darth Patches
ReaperOfSly Gallente Lyrus Associates M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.10.29 00:13:00 - [47] Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: SoftRevolution It would only be entrapment if the people involved wouldn't have acted in the way they did were it not for the PJ people. It all comes down to whether or not they are coerced into committing the crime. For example, if an undercover police officer sells knockoff dvds from the boot of his car and you buy them and are charged with the crime, that's not entrapment. However, if he tries to deliberately convince people to buy them by drawing their attention to them, he's arguably creating crimes by coersion and that is entrapment. In the case being argued here, it depends on the contents of the chat logs as to whether these people were simply offering an illegal activity or convincing people to that potentially might not agree under normal circumstances. The laws in most first world countries have set down fairly well defined lines between what does and doesn't constitute entrapment. Those laws are a little incongruent between countries but usually it's only seen as entrapment if the police are the ones coercing someone into committing a crime. If someone who wasn't police were to coerce you into committing a crime, they would be charged with committing the crime and depending on what country you live in, you'll either be let off or charged with aiding the criminal. In this case, someone that's not the police is coercing people into committing crimes such as attempting a lewd act with a minor but they themselves aren't committing any crime. Arranging to have sex with an underaged person is illegal, but portraying yourself as underaged and arranging to have sex with an adult is not any crime that I can tell. Also, even though the police are involved, they technically aren't the ones entrapping victims and thus it's not punishable. The main problem is that the police are working with people in an effort to entrap victims but are getting around entrapment laws by not talking to the victims themselves. This **** would not fly if I ran the world >: \|. So basically, it WOULD be entrapment if it was the police's idea to set this up. The fact that it was a third party doing this, and they just hung around to arrest people as they left the house makes it legal? That's insane. --------------------------------------------------------------------
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.10.29 02:55:00 - [48] Ready for the real mindf***, Reaper? The people who are arrested and charged in association with this little sting operation? They never spoke with a minor. They never attempted to have sex with a minor. There was no minor ever involved in the process. They're being charged on the premise that they thought it was a child they were soliciting. Therefore, it is now illegal to not have sex with an imaginary person. It's roughly the same as saying that since a small child could've potentially ran in front of my car on the drive to work, I should be charged with vehicular manslaughter every time I leave the house.
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2007.10.29 03:13:00 - [49] The difference obviously being killing a child with your car isn't something you would set out with intent to do. Strawmen work much better if they even vaguely resemble whatever it is you're attacking Point of interest, if every time you left your drive way you drove like you intended to commit vehicular manslaughter you'd probably get picked up for something.
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.10.29 05:05:00 - [50] Originally by: SoftRevolution The difference obviously being killing a child with your car isn't something you would set out with intent to do. Strawmen work much better if they even vaguely resemble whatever it is you're attacking Point of interest, if every time you left your drive way you drove like you intended to commit vehicular manslaughter you'd probably get picked up for something. Okay, how's this one strike you: You go out to buy drugs. Some yob on the corner sells you oregano, because you're powerdumb. A cop sees you make the transaction, follows you, stops you, and arrests you for drug possession. Of imaginary drugs.
QwaarJet Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.10.29 05:17:00 - [51] Originally by: Brujo Loco So you can see their faces Don't really think that's helping anyone tbh. Funny, but wrong.
Battleclash	Posted - 2007.10.29 05:19:00 - [52] Originally by: Amarria Black Originally by: SoftRevolution The difference obviously being killing a child with your car isn't something you would set out with intent to do. Strawmen work much better if they even vaguely resemble whatever it is you're attacking Point of interest, if every time you left your drive way you drove like you intended to commit vehicular manslaughter you'd probably get picked up for something. Okay, how's this one strike you: You go out to buy drugs. Some yob on the corner sells you oregano, because you're powerdumb. A cop sees you make the transaction, follows you, stops you, and arrests you for drug possession. Of imaginary drugs. They have to prove it's actually drugs. BUT, They can still get you if you confess that you were out to buy drugs. If you keep your mouth shut and they find it's oregano, they can't do a damn thing.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.10.29 05:45:00 - [53] Edited by: Surfin''s PlunderBunny on 29/10/2007 05:45:41 Originally by: Battleclash [ Okay, how's this one strike you: You go out to buy drugs. Some yob on the corner sells you oregano, because you're powerdumb. A cop sees you make the transaction, follows you, stops you, and arrests you for drug possession. Of imaginary drugs. They have to prove it's actually drugs. BUT, They can still get you if you confess that you were out to buy drugs. If you keep your mouth shut and they find it's oregano, they can't do a damn thing. Actually, if they can prove you had the intent to buy drugs they'll nail you AND the dealer. Video of the transaction usually taken from the dashcam is usually plenty. The Mens rea is proven by you accepting the "drugs" and the Actus reas is the money transfer. That's all that is needed if you in the USA. Yes, I have a degree in criminal justice and work in law enforcement Originally by: Liz Kali Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking I owned someone on forums!!!
Siobhan Ni Gallente Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.10.29 06:46:00 - [54] Cut it off live on TV and make them eat it.
Daedalus DuGalle Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2007.10.29 11:18:00 - [55] I wonder if that moron lawyer will blame computer games? Originally by: Chribba Buy me enough Smirnoff Ice at the fanfest and I might get too drunk and do a Britney with you
Nyphur Pillowsoft Total Comfort	Posted - 2007.10.29 11:31:00 - [56] Originally by: Amarria Black You go out to buy drugs. Some yob on the corner sells you oregano, because you're powerdumb. A cop sees you make the transaction, follows you, stops you, and arrests you for drug possession. Of imaginary drugs. That's a different scenario. They actually have a solid law against attempting to solicit sex from a minor and that law revolves around intent to commit the crime rather than the crime itself. The presence of a real minor doesn't make it more or less valid. It's actually a relatively minor sentence but the guys in the video make it seem like these guys are being charged with child abuse and going to prison for the rest of their lives or something. A comparable analogy with drugs doesn't work as I'm not aware of any laws that prosecute under in eventuality that you're sold herbs. You might be interested to know that there's a guy over here in the UK called Something McIntire who runs these kinds of sting operations as TV shows. He gets recently convicted criminals to explain how their particular crime works and help him set up a sting for another criminal of the same kind. There was one show where found a guy that stole cars on demand for people. They asked him for a certain type of car, then bought and parked a car of that type in the driveway of a house in which they were waiting. Once he got in the car, they sprung out and chased him out and down the street, talking to him about the crime. He doesn't bring the police into it and even though he documents the entire crime, he can't press charges. It's either because of the UK law being stricter on entrapment or because the guy asking the criminal to steal the car would be charged with something. The police instead used the video evidence as a basis to keep track of the thief and he comitted another car theft on his own that he was arrested for. These kinds of sting operations should only be used to obtain information for the police to watch the fellows, they shouldn't be immediately arrested and their identities certainly shouldn't be televised when their guilt could be due in part to coersion. Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
Verone	Posted - 2007.10.29 12:58:00 - [57] Sorry, but I think this is an awesome idea and an awesome thing to be doing. Anything that keeps messed up people like this away from kids and protects them from potential abuse is a good thing in my opinion. I've been donating to the NSPCC since I was old enough to have a job, and I think this is excellent. People who go so far as to take proactive steps towards meeting with a minor for any form of untoward contact need to be publically humiliated and named like this. Sadly, the UK Goverment would rather spend our hard earned taxes on giving people like Maxine Carr a new identity to prevent any repocussions for her actions. In this case, the US have the right attitude. Even if it is boosting ratings, it's helping protect children from these messed up sub human freaks. >>> TRIBUTE TO A FALLEN WINGMAN <<<
annoing Amarr	Posted - 2007.10.29 13:55:00 - [58] These people have NO place in society. There is NO excuse, there are NO reasons. The whole reason behind prisons and prison reform is to re-educate the offender, to turn them into a person society can accept back after thier punishment has been served. You cannot re-educate scum like this. There is NO point in locking them up for years at a time for them to be released to offend again. At court, if they are found guilty, take out the back, bullet in the head, cheap cardboard coffin, burn the fkers. Personally, i'd prefer to burn the fkers first, then put a bullet in the head but I doubt if the humane society would allow that. They are NOT members of the human race, they dont deserve the same rights as any humans from any background or any colour. They are simply walking sh*t. Kill them and lets be done with it.
Battleclash	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:49:00 - [59] Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Originally by: Battleclash Originally by: Amaria black Okay, how's this one strike you: You go out to buy drugs. Some yob on the corner sells you oregano, because you're powerdumb. A cop sees you make the transaction, follows you, stops you, and arrests you for drug possession. Of imaginary drugs. They have to prove it's actually drugs. BUT, They can still get you if you confess that you were out to buy drugs. If you keep your mouth shut and they find it's oregano, they can't do a damn thing. Actually, if they can prove you had the intent to buy drugs they'll nail you AND the dealer. Video of the transaction usually taken from the dashcam is usually plenty. The Mens rea is proven by you accepting the "drugs" and the Actus reas is the money transfer. That's all that is needed if you in the USA. Dashmount isn't enough evidence for conviction. If you see 2 people making a transaction, arrest them with neither talking, and the 'drug' turns out to be oregano, that's false arrest buddy. What's to say guy B just didn't want some home grown Oregano from Guy A. Not to mention that most of the time dashmount wont even pick it up (officer drives by the 7-11 and see's it out his side window.) This is why they say that you have a right to remain silent. This is why they tell you that anything you say or do can be used against you in the court of law. If you are caught in any situation you keep your mouth shut except to say yes or no. You cooperate. When you get to the station let them know the only person you'll talk to is a lawyer. Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Yes, I have a degree in criminal justice and work in law enforcement About a month ago I coulda swore that you were talking about your job in the USMC along with your training in different weapons. When ya get out?
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.10.29 17:02:00 - [60] Originally by: Battleclash Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Originally by: Battleclash Originally by: Amaria black Okay, how's this one strike you: You go out to buy drugs. Some yob on the corner sells you oregano, because you're powerdumb. A cop sees you make the transaction, follows you, stops you, and arrests you for drug possession. Of imaginary drugs. They have to prove it's actually drugs. BUT, They can still get you if you confess that you were out to buy drugs. If you keep your mouth shut and they find it's oregano, they can't do a damn thing. Actually, if they can prove you had the intent to buy drugs they'll nail you AND the dealer. Video of the transaction usually taken from the dashcam is usually plenty. The Mens rea is proven by you accepting the "drugs" and the Actus reas is the money transfer. That's all that is needed if you in the USA. Dashmount isn't enough evidence for conviction. If you see 2 people making a transaction, arrest them with neither talking, and the 'drug' turns out to be oregano, that's false arrest buddy. What's to say guy B just didn't want some home grown Oregano from Guy A. Not to mention that most of the time dashmount wont even pick it up (officer drives by the 7-11 and see's it out his side window.) This is why they say that you have a right to remain silent. This is why they tell you that anything you say or do can be used against you in the court of law. If you are caught in any situation you keep your mouth shut except to say yes or no. You cooperate. When you get to the station let them know the only person you'll talk to is a lawyer. Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Yes, I have a degree in criminal justice and work in law enforcement About a month ago I coulda swore that you were talking about your job in the USMC along with your training in different weapons. When ya get out? 4th MARDIV, I get out in 2 months... 3 years STA, 3 years heloborne infantry. Just because I'm military doesn't mean I'm uneducated. I was smart enough to go reserves and get my degree. Originally by: Liz Kali Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking I owned someone on forums!!!
Haakon Jarl Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.10.29 17:08:00 - [61] Originally by: Dark Shikari What they're doing is borderline illegal, since they're running a sting operation yet they're not law enforcement. Did you see the video? They had the cops with them. In it for the state
Mr Rourke	Posted - 2007.10.29 17:29:00 - [62] Chris Hans0wned why don't you have a seat over there... on a serious note, the vigilantes who run these stings, and the people who film this stuff for national television are just as sick as the alleged perpetrators...allegedly.
Haakon Jarl Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.10.29 17:35:00 - [63] Originally by: Mr Rourke alleged perpetrators Yeah, those chat logs were faked. Watch me vomit In it for the state
Mr Rourke	Posted - 2007.10.29 17:39:00 - [64] Originally by: Haakon Jarl Originally by: Mr Rourke alleged perpetrators Yeah, those chat logs were faked. Watch me vomit it's an allegation until proven guilty by a jury of peers in a court of law, not a bunch of former child abuse victims with computers. EVERYONE deserve due process.
Haakon Jarl Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.10.29 17:42:00 - [65] Originally by: Mr Rourke it's an allegation until proven guilty by a jury of peers in a court of law, not a bunch of former child abuse victims with computers. EVERYONE deserve due process. Ofcorse they do. But they were CAUGHT REDHANDED. Due process is irrelevant in this case, they have solid evidence of their guilt. In it for the state
ReaperOfSly Gallente Lyrus Associates M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.10.29 17:52:00 - [66] Originally by: annoing These people have NO place in society. There is NO excuse, there are NO reasons. The whole reason behind prisons and prison reform is to re-educate the offender, to turn them into a person society can accept back after thier punishment has been served. You cannot re-educate scum like this. There is NO point in locking them up for years at a time for them to be released to offend again. At court, if they are found guilty, take out the back, bullet in the head, cheap cardboard coffin, burn the fkers. Personally, i'd prefer to burn the fkers first, then put a bullet in the head but I doubt if the humane society would allow that. They are NOT members of the human race, they dont deserve the same rights as any humans from any background or any colour. They are simply walking sh*t. Kill them and lets be done with it. Ye gods, you can't seriously mean that? --------------------------------------------------------------------
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.10.29 17:57:00 - [67] Originally by: Mr Rourke Originally by: Haakon Jarl Originally by: Mr Rourke alleged perpetrators Yeah, those chat logs were faked. Watch me vomit it's an allegation until proven guilty by a jury of peers in a court of law, not a bunch of former child abuse victims with computers. EVERYONE deserve due process. I disagree, but yeah. everyone GETS due process Originally by: Liz Kali Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking I owned someone on forums!!!
ReaperOfSly Gallente Lyrus Associates M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.10.29 18:00:00 - [68] Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Originally by: Mr Rourke Originally by: Haakon Jarl Originally by: Mr Rourke alleged perpetrators Yeah, those chat logs were faked. Watch me vomit it's an allegation until proven guilty by a jury of peers in a court of law, not a bunch of former child abuse victims with computers. EVERYONE deserve due process. I disagree, but yeah. everyone GETS due process If you deprive a certain group of people due process, who gets deprived of it next? Be careful what you wish for, because it just might be you. --------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr Rourke	Posted - 2007.10.29 18:01:00 - [69] Originally by: Haakon Jarl Originally by: Mr Rourke it's an allegation until proven guilty by a jury of peers in a court of law, not a bunch of former child abuse victims with computers. EVERYONE deserve due process. Ofcorse they do. But they were CAUGHT REDHANDED. Due process is irrelevant in this case, they have solid evidence of their guilt. red handed or not, the Bill of Rights guarantees the right to a fair and speedy trial and a jury of peers. Even if they wrote a confession they receive a trial. Even then Dateline NBC doesn't count as solid evidence and neither does Perverted Justice's evidence. Many of the cases brought to trial as a result of Perverted Justice's efforts fail in court because of shady methods. I for one do NOT welcome our vigilante, private justice contractor overlords. If PJ had some sort of oversight I would trust them more. As it stands, there is nothing to keep them in check besides throwing out their court cases.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.10.29 18:01:00 - [70] Edited by: Surfin''s PlunderBunny on 29/10/2007 18:01:50 Nope, because I do a very simple thing that some people seem to have a hard time doing... OBEYING THE LAW!!! Just not in Eve Originally by: Liz Kali Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking I owned someone on forums!!!
ReaperOfSly Gallente Lyrus Associates M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.10.29 18:05:00 - [71] Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Edited by: Surfin''s PlunderBunny on 29/10/2007 18:01:50 Nope, because I do a very simple thing that some people seem to have a hard time doing... OBEYING THE LAW!!! Just not in Eve You've never run a red light or gone too fast down a motorway then? --------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr Rourke	Posted - 2007.10.29 18:08:00 - [72] Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Edited by: Surfin''s PlunderBunny on 29/10/2007 18:01:50 Nope, because I do a very simple thing that some people seem to have a hard time doing... OBEYING THE LAW!!! Just not in Eve you've never cut the crust off of a peanut butter sandwich or used a swing on a swingset without paying the copyright owners? Let alone downloaded music or video...
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.10.29 18:08:00 - [73] Nope, I'm perfect in every way Originally by: Liz Kali Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking I owned someone on forums!!!
ReaperOfSly Gallente Lyrus Associates M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.10.29 18:10:00 - [74] Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Nope, I'm perfect in every way Then you'll be safe as a member of the new master race when all this **** hits the fan. --------------------------------------------------------------------
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.10.29 18:14:00 - [75] I like Singapore law... ironically the safest place to live. Steal something... they cut off hand, say "don't do it again" and no one does! Amazing how once you stop tolerating crime it ceases to happen. What? Smuggling in drugs? DEATH!!! Originally by: Liz Kali Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking I owned someone on forums!!!
lofty29 Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.29 18:17:00 - [76] Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Amazing how once you stop tolerating crime it ceases to happen. No, would-be criminals just think twice, and regular criminals find ways to not get caught. --- Latest Video : FAT- Camp
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.10.29 18:21:00 - [77] I meant noticable crimes Originally by: Liz Kali Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking I owned someone on forums!!!
lofty29 Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.29 18:29:00 - [78] Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny I meant noticable crimes Drug smuggling still happens. I'm 99% sure that people still get murdered, thievery probably still happens. It acts as a deterrent, not a reason not to. While it's effective, your claim of 'no crime' is wrooong. --- Latest Video : FAT- Camp
Mr Rourke	Posted - 2007.10.29 18:35:00 - [79] if there is law, there is crime. No way around it. And Singapore is rampant with organized crime, so I don't think their system is working better than anyone else's.
annoing Amarr	Posted - 2007.10.29 18:37:00 - [80] Originally by: ReaperOfSly Ye gods, you can't seriously mean that? Yup. Notice I said 'if they are found guilty', is that enough due process for you? Found guilty by a fair legal process with a jury made up of their peers. All done, all finished... now burn the f*kers, really. All the pain the world can NEVER heal a child, never heal the parents. But it will help cos they then KNOW it wont happen again. It will also make those offenders consider the punishment if they are caught. Really, what do they have to fear atm? They get locked in prison wings with their own kind. The chances of another prisoner getting to them have long gone thanks to the liberal do-gooders. They serve a few years, get released on good behavior and though I have no proof of the figures, I suspect the re-offending rate is pretty high. But do we have to let them keep offending while we consider the correct level of punishment? Why should we spend over ú4k per week housing this scum? Saves alot of time, money and pain to kill them now. Also you cannot seriously tell me that you would be happy to have one of these scumbags living next door you you and your nice pretty tender young children eh? See who changes his tune quicker than a olympic 100m sprinter The trouble with being an idealistic young liberal is that reality quickly catches up with you and you find yourself changing to suit your new responsibilities. I have 3 kids now, I stopped drinking and smoking before the birth of my first. I dont club, I only go to the cinema with my kids and when we eat out we choose restaurants that accept kids. If you are going to breed and have kids, recognise that they need you in totality. If you aint prepared for that dont have kids. PS: Im also happier now than I have ever been. Drinking was great, meeting girls even better, but my kids are everything now. Anmd thats all that is important.
Haakon Jarl Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.10.29 18:50:00 - [81] Edited by: Haakon Jarl on 29/10/2007 18:50:45 Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny I like Singapore law... ironically the safest place to live. Steal something... they cut off hand, say "don't do it again" and no one does! What? Smuggling in drugs? DEATH!!! Theres plenty of dismembered people in countries that follows Sharia law. and every now and then theres someone executed for smuggeling drugs. Quote: Amazing how once you stop tolerating crime it ceases to happen. This was so stupid I just had to quote it. In it for the state
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2007.10.29 23:41:00 - [82] As far as I know it's more about clearup rates and making things socially unacceptable than just penalties per se. Live somewhere where the Police catch the vast majority of burglars and said burglars neighbours won't tolerate it and it's basically not going to happen. Doesn't matter what the penalty is if people think they're going to get away with it. You also need to ensure that people still have something to lose if they commit a worse crime so skipping straight to the really over the top punishments probably isn't as effective as you would imagine.
Keorythe Caldari Terra Rosa Militia Sev3rance	Posted - 2007.10.29 23:58:00 - [83] Originally by: annoing These people have NO place in society. There is NO excuse, there are NO reasons. The whole reason behind prisons and prison reform is to re-educate the offender, to turn them into a person society can accept back after thier punishment has been served. You cannot re-educate scum like this. There is NO point in locking them up for years at a time for them to be released to offend again. At court, if they are found guilty, take out the back, bullet in the head, cheap cardboard coffin, burn the fkers. Personally, i'd prefer to burn the fkers first, then put a bullet in the head but I doubt if the humane society would allow that. They are NOT members of the human race, they dont deserve the same rights as any humans from any background or any colour. They are simply walking sh*t. Kill them and lets be done with it. Pedophilia is a social issue and is determined by consensus of whats the right age and wrong age. Less than a century ago a 14yr old female was fair game for much older men. It was the same for young boys as well but considered an oddity. These guys are in the same league as rapists due to statutory laws and nothing else. A government determines what the age of consent is and varies from state to state and country to country. Remember also that these guys went to that house under pretense that this would be consentual with that particular kid. No kidnapping involved. Nothing forced. No one murdered. Now how many here had sex before the age of consent (US=18yr)? Other than legality, whats the difference between 40yr male and a 16yr male having sex with the 16yr old girl? Dirty old man...err 40yr old man gets new creepy title and jail time, 16yr old gets bragging rights. The state of thing in todays age might change within another 50yrs or so.
Jago Kain Amarr Ramm's RDI	Posted - 2007.10.30 00:11:00 - [84] Wow. A lot of righteous indignation in this thread, particularly from folk who think that because they have passed their genes on to the next generation, that advocating torture and mutilation is acceptable. Regardless of the illegality of child abuse, the law already has penalties in place for such crimes, so no amount of baying at the moon and frothing will get the vengeful morons in this thread the public executions they seem to want. Perhpas some enlightened debate would prove more constructive? Bear (no pun intended) with me. There was, a few years back, an initiative set to go ahead at Nottingham Prison. It was based on similar experiments in other countries in Europe that had proven encouraging. A special unit was to be set up, within the walls of the prison. Here, sex offenders who had served their time, and would *otherwise be released into the community, would live whilst participating in therapy and drug programmes designed to minimise the risk of re-offending. They were to be supervised at all times, and if they left the unit, as they would have been allowed to do not being prisoners any more, they would be accompanied by a member of staff at all times whilst out and about. Bear in mind, the offenders going into the unit were not forced, the programme was to be entirely voluntary. The participants wanted to do something about their own offending behaviour. There were way more applicants than there were to be places too; that should tell you something about some* abusers. The local media got hold of the news, but rather than report accurately, they took the lazy route and went with scaremongering, and folk got scared that Nottingham was about to become a walking, under-age buffet for "pedo-bears". There was a massive public protest by NIMBYs and the cancellation of this, and similar projects, despite all the measures taken to makes sure that the public were protected and the cost benefits from having the unit rather than a number of support/social workers in different locales trying to keep tabs on ex-prisoners all over the place. The end result? Well; you can't keep folk in prison once they have served their sentance. Most of the offenders who were to have participated in the programme, ended up being placed by social services in the very communities that were so set against the unit. By and large, the would-be participants ended up back where they had started, in the local community, with little support instead of in a secure place where they were safe from vigilantism and the community was safe from them. By helping to close the unit before they had even finished building it, the local community ensured the transition of those offenders back into the community, thus increasing the danger they were so set againt. Like a lot of offending behaviours, child abuse is part of a cycle and this unit would have been part of a way to break the cycle and actually rehabilitate ex-offenders. Anyone who has personally know or worked with children from backgrounds where child abuse has been an issue will tell you, the results are not pretty. A lot of abusers were themselves abused as children, and it is this cycle that needs breaking. However, that doesn't suit some folk. They would rather have an excuse to commit the most horrific acts of hate and violence than to try and understand the root cause of the issue and support measures designed to combat it. The unit at Nottingham would undoubtably have helped, but too many narrow-minded, short sighted, fearful people stood in the way. It's all a bit sad really. ___________________________________________________ The game will never be over, because we're keeping the meme alive.
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.10.30 02:10:00 - [85] Originally by: Jago Kain Liberal Socialist Crap. I'd like to see these people continue the cycle when they are all wearing cement underpants at the bottom of 200ft-deep lake. Once again the liberal pansy argues for understanding for people who need to be dealt with in a permenant fashion. As it stands, prison corrects no one, nor does the so-called social programmes made up by closet offenders. The only recourse of crimes as vile as sex crimes is capital punishment, done in the quickest and cheapest method possible.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.10.30 02:19:00 - [86] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 30/10/2007 02:26:11 Originally by: Derovius Vaden Originally by: Jago Kain Liberal Socialist Crap. I'd like to see these people continue the cycle when they are all wearing cement underpants at the bottom of 200ft-deep lake. Once again the liberal pansy argues for understanding for people who need to be dealt with in a permenant fashion. As it stands, prison corrects no one, nor does the so-called social programmes made up by closet offenders. The only recourse of crimes as vile as sex crimes is capital punishment, done in the quickest and cheapest method possible. The country that has the heaviest punishment in the world of all first world countries (the US) has the worst crime rate of all first world countries. The country that has one of the lowest (not sure if it is THE lowest, its 7 times lower than the US) crime rate of all first world countries, Japan, doesn't have capital punishment at all, and is far more mild than the United States in terms of punishment. There is no proven correlation at all between punishment and stopping crime. In fact, much evidence supports the fact that increased punishment actually increases crime. Not to say that people shouldn't be punished, obviously, but that more severe punishment will likely do nothing at all for the crime rate. Also, note that depending on the crime, your so-called "social programs" can be quite effective. A classic example is drug-related crimes; if you can get someone off the addiction, they will often go back to living a normal life. I know this is true, because that's exactly what my cousin did. Obviously this doesn't apply to all criminals. Of course, if someone is truly unsalvageable, why not put them to work? Put them in prison for life, and give them a job. Get society the benefit of their existence without the risk. Also, the other problem with your argument is the definition of a "sex crime." In many states, you are labeled as a sex offender for life for such "crimes" as, say, urinating in a back alley. That is, you're put in the exact same category as a convicted child molester. The fact that in a large portion of the country no distinction exists between someone caught taking a piss and a rapist means that one cannot declare that "sex criminals be executed." 23 Member EVE Video makers: save bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! (updated)
Captain Hudson Caldari Intergalactic Space Defense Force	Posted - 2007.10.30 02:35:00 - [87] Edited by: Captain Hudson on 30/10/2007 02:39:59 Originally by: Brujo Loco So you can see their faces All look like typical types that are into that kinda stuff tbh, lauged when one of the guys was a truck driver. I have to say i felt a bit sad for 'kinky_man_in_corona' , talk about bad luck and he even seemed pretty repentent once he knew he was caught. Japan are more reserved than the USA, perhaps even have a better society so they have lower crime? The Real Eve FanFest
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.10.30 02:41:00 - [88] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 30/10/2007 02:28:42 Originally by: Derovius Vaden ...stuff... The country that has the heaviest punishment in the world of all first world countries (the US) has the worst crime rate of all first world countries. I don't think the US comes even remotely close to the heaviest handed when it comes to dishing out punishments. Those states that have an active death penalty on the books take decades to complete sentencing. Quote: The country that has one of the lowest (not sure if it is THE lowest, its 7 times lower than the US) crime rate of all first world countries, Japan, doesn't have capital punishment at all, and is far more mild than the United States in terms of punishment. There is also 100 times more people per square kilometer in Japan (perhaps more, given the limited landmass), and the understanding (on a most basic level of their society) that they will get caught for their crimes. Time and again you see North American criminals thinking that they can outsmart law enforcement, where in Japan, the criminals tend to surrender in hopes of lenacy, expecting to be apprehended. Quote: There is no proven correlation at all between punishment and stopping crime. In fact, much evidence supports the fact that increased punishment actually increases crime. I'd like to see a dead rapist ***again. Seems pretty correlated to me. Quote: Also, the other problem with your argument is the definition of a "sex crime." In many states, you are labeled as a sex offender for life for such "crimes" as, say, urinating in a back alley. That is, you're put in the exact same category as a convicted child molester. The fact that in a large portion of the country no distinction exists between someone caught taking a piss and a rapist means that one cannot declare that "sex criminals be executed." Tell me Dark Shikari, how many times have you urinated in an alley? It doesn't matter if you were caught or not, how many times have you pulled out your genitals in a public area? I'm guess in the range of never to 0. Do I care that some drunk son of a *** gets the needle for emptying the tank in public? Not particularly, as I would never be in a similar situation, as I have the decency to exercise moderation when in public. Its the lack of this decency and discipline that our society suffers from; look at your favourite nation, Japan, in terms of violent crimes. When a Japanese student gets kicked out of school for fighting, or otherwise, they don't come back the next week with an assault rifle and kill 10 people, they jump infront of a train and kill themselves. Quite frankly, for the betterment (is that a word?) of society.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.10.30 02:56:00 - [89] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 30/10/2007 03:03:00 Originally by: Derovius Vaden Tell me Dark Shikari, how many times have you urinated in an alley? It doesn't matter if you were caught or not, how many times have you pulled out your genitals in a public area? I'm guess in the range of never to 0. Do I care that some drunk son of a ***** gets the needle for emptying the tank in public? Not particularly, as I would never be in a similar situation, as I have the decency to exercise moderation when in public. Its the lack of this decency and discipline that our society suffers from; look at your favourite nation, Japan, in terms of violent crimes. When a Japanese student gets kicked out of school for fighting, or otherwise, they don't come back the next week with an assault rifle and kill 10 people, they jump infront of a train and kill themselves. So basically you think that execution should be the punishment for basically any crime, regardless of severity. There are a number of Middle-Eastern and third-world countries I think you would like to live in, where stoning to death is an acceptable punishment for most crimes. How about you move there, if you really like the idea of execution as the solution to society's problems? P.S. I would bet that under your "rules", over 90% of America would be dead before they graduate high school. See "having sex with a minor." 23 Member EVE Video makers: save bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! (updated)
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.10.30 03:42:00 - [90] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 30/10/2007 03:03:00 Originally by: Derovius Vaden Tell me Dark Shikari, how many times have you urinated in an alley? It doesn't matter if you were caught or not, how many times have you pulled out your genitals in a public area? I'm guess in the range of never to 0. Do I care that some drunk son of a ***** gets the needle for emptying the tank in public? Not particularly, as I would never be in a similar situation, as I have the decency to exercise moderation when in public. Its the lack of this decency and discipline that our society suffers from; look at your favourite nation, Japan, in terms of violent crimes. When a Japanese student gets kicked out of school for fighting, or otherwise, they don't come back the next week with an assault rifle and kill 10 people, they jump infront of a train and kill themselves. So basically you think that execution should be the punishment for basically any crime, regardless of severity. There are a number of Middle-Eastern and third-world countries I think you would like to live in, where stoning to death is an acceptable punishment for most crimes. How about you move there, if you really like the idea of execution as the solution to society's problems? P.S. I would bet that under your "rules", over 90% of America would be dead before they graduate high school. See "having sex with a minor." There is an endemic problem with overpopulation of our species, most of the members would not have survived naturally if it was not society as a whole protecting them from the inevitable. With that said, you have not presented any counter-argument to the notion of whether or not society would be better off, both in terms of security and fiscal spending, if persons deemed unable to exist properly in said society were removed with prejudice. It is mentalities such as yours that are a detriment to our social wellbeing, as you advocate that it is not the perpetrators fault for how he acts, but an unpunishable third party. As such, you create a infinite logic loop by which this scum gets free to ply their trade anew. Please continue with your "I'm sure you'd love to move away from our system to <insert nation I have a general dislike for>" mentality. Advocating the quitter mentality speaks of your character, Dark Shikari.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.10.30 03:52:00 - [91] I love how everyone on this topic is just trying to work everyone else up and there's one person who's being serious and he's sitting there all **ed off Originally by:** Liz Kali Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking I owned someone on forums!!!
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.10.30 03:53:00 - [92] Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny I love how everyone on this topic is just trying to work everyone else up and there's one person who's being serious and he's sitting there all ****ed off Derovius Vaden ftw. Internets are Serious Business. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! (updated)
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.10.30 04:09:00 - [93] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny I love how everyone on this topic is just trying to work everyone else up and there's one person who's being serious and he's sitting there all ****ed off Derovius Vaden ftw. Internets are Serious Business. The topic of discussion is not the internet, or some unimportant game, its pedophilia and persons who victimize others sexually. Perhaps you two cannot differentiate between reality and the internet, but the lack of maturity only makes you look the bigger fool at the end of the day. Go back to your game, children, those of us with the mental fortitude to have worth while discussions without breaking out the fart jokes and meme's don't need to slow things down for you bystanders. This is the last I will say on the topic. At the end of the day, sexual crimes should be met with the harshest punishment excisible by society, and thats the relenquishment of ones life. Life long incarceration delays the inevitible, reform is not possible, so make the logical choice and remove the diseased (I use the term in a moral sense, not a physiological one) elements of society so those who do obey the laws can feel a legitimate sense of safety.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.10.30 04:13:00 - [94] It's the interweb where everyone here has the mask of anonymity... most pedos do not break the law and keep their sick fantasies in their sick heads where they belong... predators are the ones I want castrated and banished to some isolated island plagued by leprosy, but people here are being all crazy and it's funny to throw a wrench into it every once and a while Originally by: Liz Kali Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking I owned someone on forums!!!
Keorythe Caldari Terra Rosa Militia Sev3rance	Posted - 2007.10.30 06:42:00 - [95] Originally by: Derovius Vaden The topic of discussion is not the internet, or some unimportant game, its pedophilia and persons who victimize others sexually. Perhaps you two cannot differentiate between reality and the internet, but the lack of maturity only makes you look the bigger fool at the end of the day. At the end of the day, sexual crimes should be met with the harshest punishment excisible by society, and thats the relenquishment of ones life. Life long incarceration delays the inevitible, reform is not possible, so make the logical choice and remove the diseased (I use the term in a moral sense, not a physiological one) elements of society so those who do obey the laws can feel a legitimate sense of safety. Well first of all I support the death penalty here in Texas 100%. However, applying it to "sex crimes" as opposed to "capital murder" just doesn't fly with me. As I mentioned before "sex crimes" are socially motivated and are defined as crimes solely because a morale majority says so. They have nothing to do with victimization or malicious intent. Forcible ***is a form of assault and intent is rarely about sex while statutory ***is based on age of consent even if the underage individual fully consents. Kidnapping is still kidnapping no matter what the criminal intends to do with the victim later. Statutory laws are more about someone damaging or intending to damage someone's property (i.e. their children). When the individual becomes a legal adult their parents have no say in what they can or cannot do including becoming a pRon star. Ironically in some states if a 40yr male marries a 16yr female then its perfectly legal to have sex, attend swinger's parties, or have a pRon website with the couples sex acts. Sorry dude but "harshest punishment" should never be applied to something that is due to popular morality. If thats the case you ought to be adding high school teenagers to the list as they are the biggest "victimizers" or underage boys and girls. I'll stick with executing serial killers or kidnap/murders.
Jago Kain Amarr Ramm's RDI	Posted - 2007.10.30 13:29:00 - [96] Originally by: Derovius Vaden Originally by: Jago Kain Liberal Socialist Crap. incoherent frothing You say liberal socialist like it's a bad thing. Pansy? Nope, sorry, not sure what you mean there chap. Are you implying that because I don't support your right-wing, reactionary politics when it comes to treatment of offenders that I might be effeminate or homosexual? And if so, which is it? Do tell. Are you implying that there is something wrong with being effeminate or homosexual? You'll be telling me it's wrong to be not-white, or non-Christian next. I pray to chemical chance that you are on the wind-up, because I fear for your nation, and the bits of the world you might visit were you bright enough to fill in the passport application, if you actually mean half of what you say. Why not have a nice, refreshing cup of informed opinion and stop barking like a Yorkshire terrier left out in the rain? Just a thought. ___________________________________________________ The game will never be over, because we're keeping the meme alive.
Nyphur Pillowsoft Total Comfort	Posted - 2007.10.30 13:59:00 - [97] Originally by: Derovius Vaden Please continue with your "I'm sure you'd love to move away from our system to <insert nation I have a general dislike for>" mentality. Advocating the quitter mentality speaks of your character, Dark Shikari. Be glad that your place of residence doesn't actually subscribe to your own personal ideas on how law enforcement should work. You could be "getting the needle" right now for defamation of character or libel :p. Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
ry ry StateCorp The State	Posted - 2007.10.30 14:07:00 - [98] The paedophiles should be taken to a special island, along with the perverted-justice lot who trawl chatrooms to incite would-be paedophiles, and left to it. they're both as disgusting as each other. two birds, one stone.
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2007.10.30 15:33:00 - [99] Edited by: SoftRevolution on 30/10/2007 15:36:46 I love how these social Darwinism types always give you the impression that they think they would be the ones to survive. Hands up who thinks Derovius Vaden got the good stuff, genetically speaking /\|\ That's right chap. In my master-race you'd be getting castrated and sent to tend the terrier farms... until I needed kidney
Ignatius Armitage	Posted - 2007.10.30 17:29:00 - [100] Originally by: Jago Kain Originally by: Derovius Vaden Originally by: Jago Kain Liberal Socialist Crap. incoherent frothing You say liberal socialist like it's a bad thing. Pansy? Nope, sorry, not sure what you mean there chap. Are you implying that because I don't support your right-wing, reactionary politics when it comes to treatment of offenders that I might be effeminate or homosexual? And if so, which is it? Do tell. Are you implying that there is something wrong with being effeminate or homosexual? You'll be telling me it's wrong to be not-white, or non-Christian next. I pray to chemical chance that you are on the wind-up, because I fear for your nation, and the bits of the world you might visit were you bright enough to fill in the passport application, if you actually mean half of what you say. Why not have a nice, refreshing cup of informed opinion and stop barking like a Yorkshire terrier left out in the rain? Just a thought. it's kind of a Texas thing. the rest of the nation...not so much
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.10.30 19:54:00 - [101] Quote: Well first of all I support the death penalty here in Texas 100%. However, applying it to "sex crimes" as opposed to "capital murder" just doesn't fly with me. As I mentioned before "sex crimes" are socially motivated and are defined as crimes solely because a morale majority says so. They have nothing to do with victimization or malicious intent. Forcible ***is a form of assault and intent is rarely about sex while statutory *is based on age of consent even if the underage individual fully consents. Kidnapping is still kidnapping no matter what the criminal intends to do with the victim later. And *is rape, in the eyes of the law; you are attempting to compare sexual assault with statetory rape, which are not held in the same class of felony in any legal system in Western society. Quote: Statutory laws are more about someone damaging or intending to damage someone's property (i.e. their children). When the individual becomes a legal adult their parents have no say in what they can or cannot do including becoming a pRon star. Ironically in some states if a 40yr male marries a 16yr female then its perfectly legal to have sex, attend swinger's parties, or have a pRon website with the couples sex acts. Or it could be based on the notion that children are not considered mentally capable of independent thought until, on average, 18 years of age. There are of course exceptions to this rule, that sway to either end of the spectrum, so an acceptable mean value was chosen. The entire purpose of this rule/law is the ensure that individuals are punishable for exploiting the innocence and naivity of youth for their own gains. This is further reinforced by the fact that smoking, drinking and gambling all follow a similar route, as all are exploitative "vices". Quote: Sorry dude but "harshest punishment" should never be applied to something that is due to popular morality. If thats the case you ought to be adding high school teenagers to the list as they are the biggest "victimizers" or underage boys and girls. I'll stick with executing serial killers or kidnap/murders. I cannot think of any era where it has been unacceptable to molest a child, than a few hundred years later, the latter is true. Morality is not an occilating phenomenon, it builts as society becomes more advanced. There are certain elements that shift in and out of style, such as the acceptability of homosexuality and so forth, but the basic teants of protecting the so-called innocent persons seems to be consistant. Quote: You say liberal socialist like it's a bad thing. Coming from a nation that had a liberal government for nearly two decades, and have personally observed the wake of corruption that followed its exit, it is a bad thing. Liberalisation of society makes it weak and devoid of structure, why work when the government will feed and cloth you for free? Why raise your children properly when their inevitable dissent into anti-social behaviour is not your responsibility? Quote:** Pansy? Nope, sorry, not sure what you mean there chap. Are you implying that because I don't support your right-wing, reactionary politics when it comes to treatment of offenders that I might be effeminate or homosexual? And if so, which is it? Do tell. Effeminate individuals are not a sex crime, to my knowledge, and the homosexuals suffer for their life choices later in life as they rest on their death beds with no family around them to affirm their life had purpose.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance	Posted - 2007.10.30 19:59:00 - [102] Ah yes. I made a good decision by staying out of this thread. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in Forum Warfare Wrangler on Whining
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.10.30 19:59:00 - [103] Quote: Be glad that your place of residence doesn't actually subscribe to your own personal ideas on how law enforcement should work. You could be "getting the needle" right now for defamation of character or libel :p. Never have I seen someone reach so far with an idea and fail; how can you compare the molestation of children to civil statute violations. You owe nothing to society for defaming an individual, you owe the individual, thus is why the punishment is often financial, not a loss of ones freedom. How about you find a case inwhich an individual has been incarcerated due to defamation charges (and not contempt of count or failure to pay, etc.) and get back to us. Quote: I love how these social Darwinism types always give you the impression that they think they would be the ones to survive. Hands up who thinks Derovius Vaden got the good stuff, genetically speaking /\|\ That's right chap. In my master-race you'd be getting castrated and sent to tend the terrier farms... until I needed a kidney See Godwin's Law Quote: it's kind of a Texas thing. the rest of the nation...not so much Another American who thinks the internet starts and ends at his border; I wonder if he realizes that the servers are in England, or that thee developer is in Iceland.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.10.30 20:27:00 - [104] Originally by: Tarminic Ah yes. I made a good decision by staying out of this thread. oh c'mon in, you can send BOOBHEAD here off on a rant just by uttering one sentence... it's funny you know, in Thailand for $5 you can get 3 10 year olds for a weekend Originally by: Liz Kali Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking I owned someone on forums!!!
Jago Kain Amarr Ramm's RDI	Posted - 2007.10.30 20:38:00 - [105] Originally by: Derovius Vaden ...more rabid frothing... I was desperately racking my brain to think of some way to get across to you how offensive and narrow minded you come across as in your posts. Then I realised; it doesn't really matter. Whatever I say, you will still be an intolerant bigot. I realise now that nothing can change that but you. So, I'll just settle for hoping I'm never trapped in a lift, or latched onto at a party by someone so obnoxious and unaware. I will, on this occasion, forgo the traditional hurling of insults... most of what I'd have to say I doubt you would understand anyway. Get well soon. ___________________________________________________ The game will never be over, because we're keeping the meme alive.
ReaperOfSly Gallente Lyrus Associates M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.10.30 22:09:00 - [106] Originally by: Derovius Vaden See Godwin's Law He didn't mention **s or **. You fail due to false invokation of Godwin . By the way, imagine for a second two American 17 year olds who are going at it like rabbits. If only they lived in England, that'd be perfectly legal. But as it is, (if Vaden ruled the world, at least) they'd have to both be taken out and shot. The point is, there are ALOT of different types of sex crime, ranging from barely-worth-the-paperwork to unforgivable-kill-that-****-now. Now, the men in that video went to that house to have sex with a minor who they thought was gagging for it. At the very least, (had it not been a setup) it would have been consentual. Okay, it's still a vile thing to do, but can you honestly say it's death-worthy? There are worse crimes that don't have the death penalty attached to them. --------------------------------------------------------------------
Ademaro Imre Caldari Eye of God O X I D E	Posted - 2007.10.31 00:46:00 - [107] Edited by: Ademaro Imre on 31/10/2007 00:48:27 Originally by: Derovius Vaden Quote: it's kind of a Texas thing. the rest of the nation...not so much Another American who thinks the internet starts and ends at his border; I wonder if he realizes that the servers are in England, or that thee developer is in Iceland. Give it up already. You tripped over yourself trying to insult an American again. He specifically stated one nation, and one state when referring to the zeal in which the death penalty is applied. And no entity fries more people than Texas in western nations. And there are servers in Texas, and there are developers in Texas. Texas is bigger than most European nations in fact.
Nyphur Pillowsoft Total Comfort	Posted - 2007.10.31 11:14:00 - [108] Originally by: Derovius Vaden HALP I AM POSTING ON THE INTERNET The cure is stop posting on the internet. I'll send you a bill. Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
Marine Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.10.31 11:19:00 - [109] Originally by: Brujo Loco So you can see their faces I did not know that Spanish was second official language in United States.
Keorythe Caldari Terra Rosa Militia Sev3rance	Posted - 2007.10.31 17:49:00 - [110] Originally by: Derovius Vaden And ***is rape, in the eyes of the law; you are attempting to compare sexual assault with statetory rape, which are not held in the same class of felony in any legal system in Western society. The comparison was made due to an earlier post. Sexual assaulters are required to register as sex criminals (I lolz saying that) because the courts still recognize it as a sex crime instead of an aggravated assault or assault and battery(some states may vary). Having to be registered from sex crimes is surprisingly not that hard here in America. And while you state that they are not in the same league I beg to differ. Many states from gone out of their way to make child molestation a form of rape. Child molestation counts if you're 19 and the girl is 17 as in a famous case making its way through the appeals process now. Originally by:** Derovius Vaden Or it could be based on the notion that children are not considered mentally capable of independent thought until, on average, 18 years of age. There are of course exceptions to this rule, that sway to either end of the spectrum, so an acceptable mean value was chosen. The entire purpose of this rule/law is the ensure that individuals are punishable for exploiting the innocence and naivity of youth for their own gains. This is further reinforced by the fact that smoking, drinking and gambling all follow a similar route, as all are exploitative "vices". Once again we come to my main point in that the age chosen to represent "mentally capable" is not set in stone, has fluctuated over the decades, and is only something occuring within the past 100 years. There's an interesting read on this subject dealing with the decline of dowry and standard of living requirements for marriage from the 1800's and below and how it affected the age of consent and spawned the laws we are discussing now. Originally by: Derovius Vaden I cannot think of any era where it has been unacceptable to molest a child, than a few hundred years later, the latter is true. Morality is not an occilating phenomenon, it builts as society becomes more advanced. There are certain elements that shift in and out of style, such as the acceptability of homosexuality and so forth, but the basic teants of protecting the so-called innocent persons seems to be consistant. A few hundred? Try 100. This is relatively a new concept and even in its early years children and women morality laws had more in common with property laws than anything else. The tenants of child protection had more to do with physical injury than emotional injury. Emotional injury is yet another new thing we are dealing with today. Morality doesn't build as a society becomes more advanced. It becomes more prevelant and bloated when a society becomes stagnate and lazy. When humans reach the point that their image is more important than their survival then morality laws become more public than private.

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