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Sobach
Gallente
Fourth Circle
Total Comfort
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Posted - 2007.10.28 21:35:00 -
[1]
I can't decide between torp or cruise for my raven for mission, the torps downs BS really quick, but isn't very useful for the smaller targets, and requires constant oversight to ensure that you don't fire an extra salvo at the end.
on the other hand, cruise offers more versatility but less stopping power against BS, but is otherwise pretty much fire-and-forget.
atm I have cruise 4 and torp spec 2, going up to 3. (mostly for pvp purpose after trinity).
keep in mind that the raven is usually in the mission with another hyperion.
any thoughts?
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Zo5o
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Posted - 2007.10.28 21:48:00 -
[2]
Keep training cruise. It looks like torps' range is gonna get nerfed.
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Solid NL
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Posted - 2007.10.29 10:56:00 -
[3]
Well i would not say nerfed. Seems like they are going to reduce the range but increase the damage.
So if your planning on keeping in close range torps would still eb a option. (i almost never have to fly away from the reds but i have a second alt supporting me though).
Anyway still all setups i could come up with in quickfit told me cruise still deal out more dps then torps. Could well be i overlooked a few things but seeing as that cruise missles can still hit the smaller ships better thus allowing you to take out the cruisers alot faster thus turn your attention to the battleships faster i think cruise missles in missions is still your best bet esspecially the T2 cruise launchers.
So download quickfit and try experiment with a few setups.
Greetz Solid
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Exlegion
Caldari
New Light
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.29 11:24:00 -
[4]
As of the upcoming December patch cruise missiles will be the only option for a mission Raven. Train cruise all the way and forget about torps for now.
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Guru |
Vitrael
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.10.29 11:51:00 -
[5]
You're all being ignorant and just want to stick on the "nerf" train. Torps are getting a hilariously awesome boost. With good skills you can get those torps to 30km range and that's just about every NPC you'll ever run into in a mission. I don't fly away from rats in a mission (Raven tanks well enough) and with the 33% ROF increase torps are going to be absolute mission running monsters.
Torps aaaaall the way baby. Unless you want to snipe in safety.
___________
I learned to accept ship changes months ago. Suddenly I enjoy Eve. You should try it some time. |
Carniflex
Caldari
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.10.29 12:28:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Vitrael
You're all being ignorant and just want to stick on the "nerf" train. Torps are getting a hilariously awesome boost. With good skills you can get those torps to 30km range and that's just about every NPC you'll ever run into in a mission. I don't fly away from rats in a mission (Raven tanks well enough) and with the 33% ROF increase torps are going to be absolute mission running monsters.
Torps aaaaall the way baby. Unless you want to snipe in safety.
30 km is not enough to run missions in effective way. There is no MWD in deadspace. If it works for you then good luck with that but people who care about their mission completion time shall be using cruise. Torps will be great for pvp but for pve ... not so great.
Don't get me wrong I do like torps changes and am using them currently for missions also as they are currently the most effective way of running missions. They just fall rather short for almost all level 4 missions. Running around on your afterburner and twiddling your thumbs until you are in range to kill anything does not make effective missionrunning.
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Lochnar Duergah
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Posted - 2007.10.29 12:31:00 -
[7]
Anyone have a link to the article about the torp changes?
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Exlegion
Caldari
New Light
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.29 13:09:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Exlegion on 29/10/2007 13:12:57
Originally by: Vitrael
You're all being ignorant and just want to stick on the "nerf" train. Torps are getting a hilariously awesome boost. With good skills you can get those torps to 30km range and that's just about every NPC you'll ever run into in a mission. I don't fly away from rats in a mission (Raven tanks well enough) and with the 33% ROF increase torps are going to be absolute mission running monsters.
Torps aaaaall the way baby. Unless you want to snipe in safety.
No offense, but you must not run missions much. In level 4's usually you have pockets of NPC's spread across in different directions and as far as 100+ km's away. How do you intend to run missions efficiently with a range of 30 km's max on torps? Then you have NPC rat battleships that INSIST in keeping distance from you. Again, using torps and giving chase to these is highly inefficient. And yes, torps get a buff on damage BUT get an increase in explosion radius, which basically cancels out.
I won't speak on whether it's a buff to PVP or not since I don't have much experience with torps and PVP nor have I tested the changes in Sisi. But in reference to PVE it is definitely a nerf.
Originally by: Lochnar Duergah
Anyone have a link to the article about the torp changes?
The changes are on the test server.
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Guru |
Rewind12
THE KNIGHTS OF CYDONIA
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Posted - 2007.10.29 14:30:00 -
[9]
Just read the threadm and i really must say something. This is not really a nerf to torps. They getting 33% damage people. Will be most usefull for all those rat farmers in 0.0 that only take out the BSs. I'm not sure about their range and won't talk about that.
My advice and the way i'm going to go i think, get 1 or 2 cruise to draw the rats within torp range and then get shooting. After alerting a group of rats, use the cruise missiles to take out those annoying little frigs ( i've noticed that when they come straight for you from far away and you hit them with cruise missile you do ALOT of damage, must be from the "right in the kisser" hit) and then take out the BSs much faster than you do now.
I say yey for the 33% bonus.
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pandymen
Caldari
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation
space weaponry and trade
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Posted - 2007.10.29 16:39:00 -
[10]
Do none of you "cruise are the only way to go" people realize that torps, even with a 30km range, can be used to aggro every pocket in a mission provided your ship can actually target them?
Regardless of your gun/missile range, shooting at a targetted NPC aggro's them, and they come to you. Seriously, doesn't just about everyone do this anyway? I always aggro several pockets and wait for them to get closer for easier salvaging later.
But honestly, torps already make for faster missioning. Now they will tear apart battleships and bc's even faster. I'm looking forward to trying them out in missions. I can't guarantee they'll be better, but definitely don't discount them. I would bet that they are still more effective post-"nerf."
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Exlegion
Caldari
New Light
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.29 17:42:00 -
[11]
Originally by: pandymen
Do none of you "cruise are the only way to go" people realize that torps, even with a 30km range, can be used to aggro every pocket in a mission provided your ship can actually target them?
Regardless of your gun/missile range, shooting at a targetted NPC aggro's them, and they come to you. Seriously, doesn't just about everyone do this anyway? I always aggro several pockets and wait for them to get closer for easier salvaging later.
But honestly, torps already make for faster missioning. Now they will tear apart battleships and bc's even faster. I'm looking forward to trying them out in missions. I can't guarantee they'll be better, but definitely don't discount them. I would bet that they are still more effective post-"nerf."
Why aggro them and wait for them to get to you when you can aggro them and waste them while they get to you? I'm sure you'll still be able to kill lots of NPC's eventually as you close the distance between. But I'm talking about EFFICIENTLY run missions. You will not be able to efficiently run missions with torps after the "buff".
At the moment torps are more efficient than cruise in missions. If after the patch you don't mind completing a mission in 2 hours instead of 1 then by all means use torps. If you're interested in efficiency then cruise missiles will be your only option.
By the way, the ROF increase is accompanied with an explosion radius increase which pretty much nulls the benefit.
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Guru |
Carniflex
Caldari
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.10.29 18:41:00 -
[12]
Originally by: pandymen
Do none of you "cruise are the only way to go" people realize that torps, even with a 30km range, can be used to aggro every pocket in a mission provided your ship can actually target them?
But honestly, torps already make for faster missioning. Now they will tear apart battleships and bc's even faster. I'm looking forward to trying them out in missions. I can't guarantee they'll be better, but definitely don't discount them. I would bet that they are still more effective post-"nerf."
I'm willing to trade my 7 caldary navy siege launchers for your 7 caldary navy cruise launchers  If you are interested then just drop me and evemail and we can agree about escrow location.
As far as aggroing goes yeh you can do it with any 'agressive' module. Hell even target painter works. However agression will not 'teleport' the poor NPC's into your weapons range. And there is several rat types fitted also with afterburners and rather keen at keeping at 50 km from you. While it ofc is possible to catch up with them eventually guy pumping out 600 dps constantly from warp in to jump to next gate will be better off timewise than torps guys doing somewhere up to 1200 dps in bursts.
Currently yeah. They are uber for missions. I can kill the poor NPC battleships from 20 to 30 seconds with torps from 0 to 100 km. After the patch I will be able to kill NPC battleships in 12 to 20 seconds from 0 to 30 km.
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Valentina Gallatoire
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Posted - 2007.10.29 18:50:00 -
[13]
I think people are dismissing torps as mission tools a little too soon. First off, we really don't know what the final state of torps will be. Likewise, the Golem bonuses might change as well. Finally, there are rigs and implants to consider. For me, the magic number is 45km or so. If torps can go that far, I'll be using them.
I'm not saying that it will work out, but the whining is really kind of premature at this point.
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Carniflex
Caldari
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.10.29 19:08:00 -
[14]
Naaah. We are not whining. When we would whine then we would demand 'more fitting' changes or rant how they should not be changed. This change is good for PvP it's just not so stellar for PvE bcos of range.
Before current changes torps advantages over cruise were not that noticeable so people had to wonder witch one is really better while now both missile systems will be with clearer definitions. Short range high damage and long range with lower damage. Pity they nuked the javelin range advantage but meh it was too good to be true anyway.
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Exlegion
Caldari
New Light
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.29 19:21:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Carniflex
Naaah. We are not whining. When we would whine then we would demand 'more fitting' changes or rant how they should not be changed. This change is good for PvP it's just not so stellar for PvE bcos of range.
Before current changes torps advantages over cruise were not that noticeable so people had to wonder witch one is really better while now both missile systems will be with clearer definitions. Short range high damage and long range with lower damage. Pity they nuked the javelin range advantage but meh it was too good to be true anyway.
Agreed. I'm actually preparing for the torp change (sharpening my skills for a Cruise Golem). Torps omgwtfpwnd in missions. Now they won't. I'll adapt and move on to the next best thing. I love this game too much to cry over changes like these, expecially since in the long run it should make the game more enjoyable for everyone.
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Guru |
VLAD DRACU
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Posted - 2007.10.29 19:50:00 -
[16]
raven for missions:
30 km wont be enough to take down most of guristas ships that hang out at around 45km, including bs's; drones? takes long.
if enough angels bs's get below 30km, my shield starts getting shades of red. in ae bonus stage if i dont keep the distance as soon as i warp in, i have to jump sooner or later, especially when the 2nd wave arrives.
ok, that will be compensated by increased power and rof. but still no solution for guristas
cruise? nah.
i'm the kind that likes to kill the mosquito with the cannon.
anyway if the rummors are true i dont think torps will be the right tool for the missions
btw anyone got a link to a dev post?
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Carniflex
Caldari
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.10.29 20:14:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Exlegion
I'm actually preparing for the torp change (sharpening my skills for a Cruise Golem).
If current bonuses on Golem hold you might get better speeds for slightly cheaper in Cruise CNR. Golem will be rather good salvage ship tho thanx to tractor bonuses. Ofc Golem will be good for missions also just not that big step upwards from Raven to justify the bill if CNR's will go for approx the same price or slightly cheaper. Altho this is not relevant to this thread ofc.
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Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.10.29 20:28:00 -
[18]
Using torps in missions? Hah. I have two words for you:
Rachen Mysuna
Let's see you efficiently finish him off with a max range of 30km.
--
(Battle hardened industrialist)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
Qui Shon
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Posted - 2007.10.29 22:26:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Qui Shon on 29/10/2007 22:25:56
nm wrong thread, sorry.
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Exlegion
Caldari
New Light
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.30 13:26:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Carniflex
Originally by: Exlegion
I'm actually preparing for the torp change (sharpening my skills for a Cruise Golem).
If current bonuses on Golem hold you might get better speeds for slightly cheaper in Cruise CNR. Golem will be rather good salvage ship tho thanx to tractor bonuses. Ofc Golem will be good for missions also just not that big step upwards from Raven to justify the bill if CNR's will go for approx the same price or slightly cheaper. Altho this is not relevant to this thread ofc.
You're right. But I'm hoping CCP realizes this and somehow fixes it so that the Golem reflects a more affordable price, since it won't be THE mission running ship. It's a fat chance, but if the Golem turns out to cost 200-300 million isks less than the CNR it may actually turn out to be an efficient option to running missions. Either way, I'll still get the Golem, even if just to add to my collection of toys.
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Guru |
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Jezabel2
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Posted - 2007.10.30 18:42:00 -
[21]
if u can get their range to 50 km or so it would be great, thats all u need for missions
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Synapse X
Gallente
Species 5618
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.30 19:16:00 -
[22]
Ive run enuff missions in a torp raven to get over 1m LP's with my agent... I don't kill anything until its at its minimum range or within 20km. Otherwise salvaging(and looting) is a huge pain.
Fly in, aggro entire pocket, kill ships as they reach 20km. Carry a stack of t2 torps for 45km range for those few stubborn ranged rats.
I cant imagine how you can loot/salvage rats you are killing 90km in each direction, I'd claw my eyes out before I looted that.
Since LP's arent worth much anymore, and bounties have dropped, why are you running level 4's if you arent salvaging?
I for one, cannot wait to get my hands on a Golem (I currently fly a faction pimped torp CNR).
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Lucas Edge
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Posted - 2007.10.30 19:24:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Andrue
Using torps in missions? Hah. I have two words for you:
Rachen Mysuna
Let's see you efficiently finish him off with a max range of 30km.
LOL - I just finished him off at 6km away using a stasis web and a 100nm ab. It's simple really -just kill everything else, warp off and fit the web and ab, warp back but do NOT target him. Just approach until he hits his burner which won't be until 20 or 30km away from you. At that point turn on your AB and close into web range. After that just watch him slowly die. His dps is pathetic and is only kinetic so only 2 kinetic hardeners are needed freeing up the mids for the web and AB. Tactics my friend... tactics.
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Carniflex
Caldari
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.10.31 07:46:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Synapse X
Ive run enuff missions in a torp raven to get over 1m LP's with my agent... I don't kill anything until its at its minimum range or within 20km. Otherwise salvaging(and looting) is a huge pain.
Fly in, aggro entire pocket, kill ships as they reach 20km. Carry a stack of t2 torps for 45km range for those few stubborn ranged rats.
I cant imagine how you can loot/salvage rats you are killing 90km in each direction, I'd claw my eyes out before I looted that.
Since LP's arent worth much anymore, and bounties have dropped, why are you running level 4's if you arent salvaging?
I for one, cannot wait to get my hands on a Golem (I currently fly a faction pimped torp CNR).
Simple. Dont loot/salvage. In faction fitted CNR you would get better isk/h just chaining missions for bounties and LP. Don't underestimate the power of LP. It's possible to get 2000 isk/LP approx by piking your offers reasonably. With good social skills and pimped CNR it's possible to put out approx 20 000 LP / h in lower end hi sec + bounties from missions.
Ofc there is some missions where it's worth looting or salvaging, but even then usually not all the rats around you but just few bigger clusters.
And to answer your last question. I'm running them for isk to fund my other hobbies. Better than mining and as I'm addicted to expencive implants I like to hang out in empire and go to 0.0 only in corp business or when I'm really really bored of missions (with lower grade implants ofc).
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hypersk
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Posted - 2007.10.31 09:16:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Lucas Edge
Originally by: Andrue
Using torps in missions? Hah. I have two words for you:
Rachen Mysuna
Let's see you efficiently finish him off with a max range of 30km.
LOL - I just finished him off at 6km away using a stasis web and a 100nm ab. It's simple really -just kill everything else, warp off and fit the web and ab, warp back but do NOT target him. Just approach until he hits his burner which won't be until 20 or 30km away from you. At that point turn on your AB and close into web range. After that just watch him slowly die. His dps is pathetic and is only kinetic so only 2 kinetic hardeners are needed freeing up the mids for the web and AB. Tactics my friend... tactics.
For what AB and WEB ;) I killed him from 50Km with Caldari navy cruise launchers loades with Caldary navy wrath cruise missles and 2x 350mm prototype railgun loaded with faction antimater. It cost me only one reload. I moved to this setup when i hear about torp. nerf and its A LOT better that my previous torpedo setup. Now i run some missions twice faster ;)
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