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Tarminic Forsaken Resistance	Posted - 2007.10.29 18:43:00 - [61] Originally by: Kayna Eelai 3) but in the end, this game is all about pvp. BS. The game is about whatever the hell you make it about. I don't PvP much and I'm doing fine. Originally by: Kayna Eelai try a 1v1 stabber VS stabber. one with a faction web and T2 guns with barrage... and the other with just scouts and T1/faction ammo. ok? If the same ship uses versions of your equipment that cost 10,000,000 times more than your equipment, how is it a problem if they win? Quote: earning isk... doing same missions over and over and over... in the same ship every single day... how much fun! There are multiple ways to make ISK. Production? Piracy? Invention? Exploration? Salvage? Scammer? I made 250 million ISK just on the forums. Think outside of the box for once. Missions are not Quests, and this is not WoW. Originally by: Kayna Eelai Originally by: Cinimrat The OP is either a troll or an idiot. Either way there's no reason anyone should be posting in this thread. elaborate or GTFO I'm guessing he thinks your viewpoints are uninformed, poorly thought-out, and hindered by the ranting manner in which you conduct yourself. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in Forum Warfare Wrangler on Whining
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders	Posted - 2007.10.29 18:43:00 - [62] U don't like the new content or are u seeing the nerfs that will be in the patch as 'content' as well? For me personally, i think the content will be great, sure there might be a few nerfs that impo should never have made it to the next synaps of the person who thought them up but overal the next patch looks to be wonderfull, in fact it might be one of hte few patches i'm actually looking forward to. And u do realize the eve patches are free right? no need to buy a disk from a store ala WoW or Guildwars? u just dl and presto, more content, better images... I can't wait for rev3 to be unleashed CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
Kayna Eelai Gallente GNATHIC	Posted - 2007.10.29 18:48:00 - [63] Originally by: 000Hunter000 And u do realize the eve patches are free right? no need to buy a disk from a store ala WoW or Guildwars? u just dl and presto, more content, better images... I can't wait for rev3 to be unleashed please don't compare PATCHES to EXPANSIONS. guildwar just and plains sucks all in all, wont comment on that, but wow gets like twice the PATCHES eve gets (including new items, new contents, new instances, etc. and ofc all the mini bugfix patches, etc) and also FOR FREE. it's the expansion they charge for. not saying i agree or disagree or one is better or worse. just pointing out to not compare PATCHES (please look the meaning of "patch" on wiki) to EXPANSION. fixed to 23.15 kB (23710 bytes)
Kayna Eelai Gallente GNATHIC	Posted - 2007.10.29 18:50:00 - [64] Edited by: Kayna Eelai on 29/10/2007 18:51:10 Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Kayna Eelai try a 1v1 stabber VS stabber. one with a faction web and T2 guns with barrage... and the other with just scouts and T1/faction ammo. ok? If the same ship uses versions of your equipment that cost 10,000,000 times more than your equipment, how is it a problem if they win? geez how thick can people be... it was not about the ISK that equipment costs, but the skills needed to use. i could spend billions on faction items and my ship would still be worse than some1 with T2 guns and ammo. besides... plz check the market and you'll notice how T2 medium projectile guns tend to cost less or same that T1 scouts. so much about ISK. fixed to 23.15 kB (23710 bytes)
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2007.10.29 18:51:00 - [65] Originally by: Kayna Eelai Edited by: Kayna Eelai on 29/10/2007 16:55:07 ok, it's the third time i write this post... 2 previous tries were to specific, looked to bad/noobish and didn't really manage to explain my point. (so i didn't even post em) and TBH, i am not sure if i'll be able to express it correctly this time either. i am a bit angry / disappointed with CCP for doing new content (aka T2 BS) that apparently is only directed at the 3 years old players with gazillions of ISK and SP. i am not talking about new graphics and all that generic stuff, but about new items and new skills. veteran players (mission runners for example) already have billions of ISK and SP, they'll get their marauders for example pretty fast and make more ISK even faster... the veteran PVP will jump into their new ewar ships pretty soon too... and what about the guy who is just 3-6 month old? i am sitting in the same battleship, doing the same lvl4 missions now for over 1 month. ofc i'll get the "ohhh, only 1 month and already whining" comments, but i don't care. that's not the way of keeping newer players hooked to a game, having them 1 month doing the same crap in the same ship over and over. "go pvp, that's what this game is ment for" will most of you yell at me... and my answer: where the hell do you think all the ISK i made all this last month go, huh? into lame ass gatecamps or blobs. 10M ISK ship gone in 30 seconds without even being able to fire of a single shell. same with a 50M isk ship or a 5billion ship... you're primary = you're dead. OMG HOW FUN IS THAT.... but this is NOT a pvp whine, not really. this is about the fact that in my opinion, CCP is more bothered to keep the veteran players happy, who are masochist enough to play this for 3 years already anyways, rather than giving some more content to newer players, to keep em hooked to it and not get bored too soon. now, i am sure i'll get a **load of flames, loads of smartasses talking crap and some people trying to give me hints about what i could be doing... but this post is not only about ME. it's about all new coming people... just try this yourself before smack talking here: join the rookie channel ingame. stay there for 5-14 days... you'll see many new players joining every single day... and only a mere 1-5% (and 5% is being VERY generous) stays, while the rest of people quits this game, mostly because it becomes too boring really fast or because it's too hardcore (pvp) for them. eve-online as a game has absolutely no respect for new coming players and if it wasn't for the community, which is one of the best i've seen so far, this game would be dead and buried for a few years already. in fact, why are we paying for this game? CCP should pay the community for keeping their game alive! anyways, i could keep ranting here for hours but that would not make my point any clearer... MORE FOR THE NEWBS, LESS FOR THE VETS!!! What a whine! You're a month old. The 'new' content for you is four races and dozens of ships per race. All those ships are 'new' to you, homeboy. Train for this before you fault CCP for not adding another BS....oh, wait, they did! Called Maelstrom Rokh, Hyperion, Abbadon. shhh, newb. ----------------- Friends Forever** Kill. BoB. Dead.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance	Posted - 2007.10.29 18:55:00 - [66] Originally by: Kayna Eelai Edited by: Kayna Eelai on 29/10/2007 18:51:10 Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Kayna Eelai try a 1v1 stabber VS stabber. one with a faction web and T2 guns with barrage... and the other with just scouts and T1/faction ammo. ok? If the same ship uses versions of your equipment that cost 10,000,000 times more than your equipment, how is it a problem if they win? geez how thick can people be... it was not about the ISK that equipment costs, but the skills needed to use. i could spend billions on faction items and my ship would still be worse than some1 with T2 guns and ammo. besides... plz check the market and you'll notice how T2 medium projectile guns tend to cost less or same that T1 scouts. so much about ISK. Faction Stasis Webifiers are a bit more expensive than T2 guns, I hate to tell you. Also, how is this even relevant to the overall discussion? ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in Forum Warfare Wrangler on Whining
Kayna Eelai Gallente GNATHIC	Posted - 2007.10.29 18:56:00 - [67] Originally by: Haniblecter Teg You're a month old. on what, the wookie calendar? L2R before you post. fixed to 23.15 kB (23710 bytes)
Jack Target Koshaku Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.10.29 18:56:00 - [68] I'm looking forward to Trinity just so I can fantasize about piloting the new ships one day! I will think of them longingly before I fall asleep in bed. I'll probably enjoy running the new missions as well - but I don't fantasize about this in the same way.
Kayna Eelai Gallente GNATHIC	Posted - 2007.10.29 18:57:00 - [69] Originally by: Tarminic Also, how is this even relevant to the overall discussion? because i claimed that in order to be ANY good in pvp, you need certain skills, like T2 guns and that's it's pretty boring while those skills go up... and some smartass came and said that's not correct, that a rifter could kill a titan any day (well not exactly like this, but sums it up) fixed to 23.15 kB (23710 bytes)
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance	Posted - 2007.10.29 19:02:00 - [70] Originally by: Kayna Eelai Originally by: Tarminic Also, how is this even relevant to the overall discussion? because i claimed that in order to be ANY good in pvp, you need certain skills, like T2 guns and that's it's pretty boring while those skills go up... and some smartass came and said that's not correct, that a rifter could kill a titan any day (well not exactly like this, but sums it up) Too bad that's not true. The first time I PvPed I was in a Vexor with less than 3 million SP, and I helped take down a battleships before I was jammed and taken out myself. You're still looking at this from a WoW perspective, where the only way you can win is by out-tanking or out-damaging your opponent. As I said before, try thinking outside of the box. Despite the fact that Goonswarm has relatively low-SP players, they've been able to fight and beat many alliances with more SP and better-equipped ships through numbers and superior tactics. Also, a T2-fitted megathron can be shut down by a single cruiser (Blackbird/Celestis) or four frigates. How does that factor into your equation? ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in Forum Warfare Wrangler on Whining
kurg Amarr Science Production And NuKing Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.29 19:10:00 - [71] Originally by: Kayna Eelai Edited by: Kayna Eelai on 29/10/2007 16:55:07 i am a bit angry / disappointed with CCP for doing new content (aka T2 BS) that apparently is only directed at the 3 years old players with gazillions of ISK and SP. i am not talking about new graphics and all that generic stuff, but about new items and new skills. And how is that different from World of Warcraft players that have a full set of Tier 4, 5 or 6 and or a full set of Arena PvP gear? Im so sick and tired of players like your self that whine about things that make no sense! In World of Warcraft most players will NEVER see that kind of gear! in Eve-Online at least ALL players stand a chance to using everything available in game! all skills have a max level of 5 which EVERYONE will get at some point! So please go shot your self and play something else!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kayna Eelai Gallente GNATHIC	Posted - 2007.10.29 19:10:00 - [72] ok, i'll try to make a real life example, to make my point a little more clear. maybe those who still study and not work won't understand it completely: we wake up each day, we work, we earn money, come home, dinner and to bed. what for? so once a year we can have fun on a nice vacation somewhere. but the rest of the year we're depressed and bored like hell. wouldn't it be nicer if we could have a LITTLE BIT of fun every day? if we have a hobby it can get boring too if we do the same day after day, so would be nice to have MORE OPTIONS. (it's just an exaaaaample, don't u guys start to overreact with stupid replies to this part of my post, lol) thats all i am asking for: more options for newer players (and i don't refer only to the 2-4 weeks old, but anything under 6 month). options that don't require throwing away your whole skill plan and spend 2 month learning something different. what i am talking about is (for example) more ships per race and/or type. more hybrid ships that are TRUELY hybrid (jack of all trades, and not pwnmobiles at just ONE thing) and stuff like that. not asking for 10 new machariel ships that only cost 10 ISK and can be piloted with frigatte skills. but certainly more variety. for example, if minmatar and gallente are so "friendly" each other, why not have a cheap faction cruiser with less firepower and a bigger dronebay... just as example. or a gallente ship with some projectile bonuses instead hybrid guns. wouldn't hurt to mix the races some more on this way. doubt it would hurt eve storyline (as if there was anything to hurt in first place, lol) and even those considered enemy each other (minmatar/amarr) could have some hybrid ship... i mean it only needs ONE PERSON (or small team) to invent something like that. could be a minmatar slave who worked in the labs of some amarr engineer and they invented this together. who cares, just give us MORE OPTIONS. not better or worse. just MORE. fixed to 23.15 kB (23710 bytes)
Jacinta Worth	Posted - 2007.10.29 19:11:00 - [73] It seems to me that the OP is too concerned with what he's flying rather than what he's doing or planning to do. While there is a healthy dose of desire to fly bigger, badder, more pimped out ships in most of us, in reality the focus is on flying a ship that does the job at hand well, or at least well enough. What has frustrated me a little with some of the posts had been this concept that more ships available to newbies to fly would equal a better game when in fact there are simply masses of ships available for newbies. Of course not all of them are suited to the purpose of running missions but how redundant would those ships be if they could all do the same thing? It's not really anyone's problem except your that you are dissatisfied with flying the same ship for months on end for the sole purpose of flying missions to earn ISK. If the ship is designed for that purpose then there is no need to fly anything else. Were you interested in trying out exploration you could train for covert ops ships, for instance. Or train recon for electronic warfare, or any number of other ships for different options. My request is please not to whine about the lack of variety if you are simply not interested in finding that variety for yourself since the game really does offer that to you. Go out and look. You shall be rewarded. Also, I don't know if this is true but it appears to me that you're not spending a lot of time with other payers in the game. A collective goal (be that mission-running, empire-building or pirating) will help you to fly and fit ships for PvP purposes or different ships for PvE purposes. Assault Frigates, HACs and Command Ships can all come in useful for missions or complexes when working in a group.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance	Posted - 2007.10.29 19:15:00 - [74] Originally by: Kayna Eelai thats all i am asking for: more options for newer players (and i don't refer only to the 2-4 weeks old, but anything under 6 month). options that don't require throwing away your whole skill plan and spend 2 month learning something different. what i am talking about is (for example) more ships per race and/or type. more hybrid ships that are TRUELY hybrid (jack of all trades, and not pwnmobiles at just ONE thing) and stuff like that. Then why didn't you just say this to begin with? That way you could have avoided 70+ posts of defending your angst against CCP and at the same time actually be productive? Instead you've wasted three pages ranting and then poorly defending your rant. Even better, why not suggest new ships that could be added and see how people like or dislike them? ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in Forum Warfare Wrangler on Whining
Zentan Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.10.29 19:16:00 - [75] to the OP: I can understand your problems, Eve isnt the perfekt game. But in my opinion its still the best MMO on the market. Because its playerdriven. Since i touched Eve, i will never be able to play games like World of Warcraft anymore, where you have absolutely no influence on the environment.
Saraith Narr	Posted - 2007.10.29 19:19:00 - [76] Quote: 3) the entertainment is much higher due the fact you get a "feeling of reward" as you level up, get new items from missions (what do we get in eve? LP, isk, LP, isk and more isk... and the good items u need to spend ****load of ISK on lame faction tags) OP's a troll, just ignore him. The ingame tutorial nets you new ships, free skillbooks and implants. So he either didnt bother doing it, or hes posting a fake whine to get e-attention. Either way, he's a clown.
Kayna Eelai Gallente GNATHIC	Posted - 2007.10.29 19:21:00 - [77] Originally by: Tarminic Too bad that's not true. The first time I PvPed I was in a Vexor with less than 3 million SP, and I helped take down a battleships before I was jammed and taken out myself. bolded the important thing. and... how many guys where you? and what was the fit of those other guys? and maybe the battleship guy was just 2 month old? see where i am going? i'll tell you one of MY first pvp experiences: i attacked a ratting rupture (was sitting in a bellicose back then) and he seemed to be AFK. when he only had 1/4 of armor left he apparently came back from pvp and started shooting at me. by the time i popped his ship i was in structure already. why would that be? 1) his drones were T2 2) his repper was T2 3) his guns were T2 (my log was telling me he was dealing double the damage per hit i was doing back then) want me to keep going? yes i won. i won because the fight started because a vet player made a noob mistake of going afk. but that and all the fights i did later against players with just 2-3 more month than me showd me that T2 = win against T1. in order to get T2 i need to get skills up first. getting skills up = boring time. and the game itself does NOT encourage you to do anything specific, you could just log off and come for skill swap, and CCP would be a happy bunny coz you pay, but u don't use their server resources. fixed to 23.15 kB (23710 bytes)
Kayna Eelai Gallente GNATHIC	Posted - 2007.10.29 19:24:00 - [78] Originally by: Tarminic Even better, why not suggest new ships that could be added and see how people like or dislike them? because the lack of success of those suggestion, as for what i've seen on this forums, discouraged me of doing that. fixed to 23.15 kB (23710 bytes)
Kayna Eelai Gallente GNATHIC	Posted - 2007.10.29 19:25:00 - [79] Originally by: Saraith Narr Quote: 3) the entertainment is much higher due the fact you get a "feeling of reward" as you level up, get new items from missions (what do we get in eve? LP, isk, LP, isk and more isk... and the good items u need to spend **load of ISK on lame faction tags) OP's a troll, just ignore him. The ingame tutorial nets you new ships, free skillbooks and implants. So he either didnt bother doing it, or hes posting a fake whine to get e-attention. Either way, he's a clown. the ingame tutorial doesn't tell you **. and i've made a new char every patch they changed it. maybe you should try other MMOs before making yourself look like a clueless fanboi. fixed to 23.15 kB (23710 bytes)
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance	Posted - 2007.10.29 19:26:00 - [80] Quote: i'll tell you one of MY first pvp experiences: i attacked a ratting rupture (was sitting in a bellicose back then) and he seemed to be AFK. when he only had 1/4 of armor left he apparently came back from pvp and started shooting at me. by the time i popped his ship i was in structure already. why would that be? 1) his drones were T2 2) his repper was T2 3) his guns were T2 (my log was telling me he was dealing double the damage per hit i was doing back then) want me to keep going? yes i won. i won because the fight started because a vet player made a noob mistake of going afk. but that and all the fights i did later against players with just 2-3 more month than me showd me that T2 = win against T1. in order to get T2 i need to get skills up first. Ok, then how about this. Name a system and I'll meet you there and fight you. You bring your battleship with T2 gear, I'll bring my battleship with T1 gear only. If you win it proves your point, and if I win it proves my point. I'll come alone, you can scan my setup or a neutral party can do it, I don't care. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in Forum Warfare Wrangler on Whining
priceguy	Posted - 2007.10.29 19:36:00 - [81] Originally by: Kayna Eelai thats all i am asking for: more options for newer players (and i don't refer only to the 2-4 weeks old, but anything under 6 month). options that don't require throwing away your whole skill plan and spend 2 month learning something different. what i am talking about is (for example) more ships per race and/or type. more hybrid ships that are TRUELY hybrid (jack of all trades, and not pwnmobiles at just ONE thing) and stuff like that. not asking for 10 new machariel ships that only cost 10 ISK and can be piloted with frigatte skills. but certainly more variety. for example, if minmatar and gallente are so "friendly" each other, why not have a cheap faction cruiser with less firepower and a bigger dronebay... just as example. or a gallente ship with some projectile bonuses instead hybrid guns. wouldn't hurt to mix the races some more on this way. doubt it would hurt eve storyline (as if there was anything to hurt in first place, lol) and even those considered enemy each other (minmatar/amarr) could have some hybrid ship... i mean it only needs ONE PERSON (or small team) to invent something like that. could be a minmatar slave who worked in the labs of some amarr engineer and they invented this together. who cares, just give us MORE OPTIONS. not better or worse. just MORE. A gallente ship with projectile bonuses would just be a minmatar ship with a chassis that fit another race's model. There is also nothing stopping you from fitting projectiles to gallente, or lasers to minmatar. Pirate ships (cross bonused) ships would still require you to break your skill path to fly them and at the same time open up another race's ships. You can already do this with out having the goal of a pirate ship and double your potential ship base. I also don't see how more will solve your problem. Ships train very fast, you can be in another races BS in 2-3 weeks and at the same time open up their entire frigate and cruiser hangar. But you would still need to train drones, hybrids, etc. That is where your time is being chewed up. Giving you a minmatar drone boat, or caldari laser boat isn't going to open a whole new field, its just going to create redundant ships with different skins. As I said before, ships are only limited by what you want to do with them.
kurg Amarr Science Production And NuKing Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.29 19:39:00 - [82] Originally by: Kayna Eelai ok, i'll try to make a real life example, to make my point a little more clear. maybe those who still study and not work won't understand it completely: Eve is most likely to be the MOST working class friendly game within the MMO industry! NO OTHER GAME will allow someone while at work, traveling, on vacation or what ever else they do to continue to train skills while offline! without ever the worry of NOT being able to keep up with friends! Your either very young or just plain ignorant if you cant see that, instant gratification? eh? you must be allot of fun in bed!
Dash Dannon	Posted - 2007.10.29 19:44:00 - [83] Originally by: Kayna Eelai the ingame tutorial doesn't tell you ****. and i've made a new char every patch they changed it. maybe you should try other MMOs before making yourself look like a clueless fanboi. What do you think should be included in the tutorial then?
priceguy	Posted - 2007.10.29 19:45:00 - [84] Originally by: Kayna Eelai Originally by: Tarminic Too bad that's not true. The first time I PvPed I was in a Vexor with less than 3 million SP, and I helped take down a battleships before I was jammed and taken out myself. bolded the important thing. and... how many guys where you? and what was the fit of those other guys? and maybe the battleship guy was just 2 month old? see where i am going? i'll tell you one of MY first pvp experiences: i attacked a ratting rupture (was sitting in a bellicose back then) and he seemed to be AFK. when he only had 1/4 of armor left he apparently came back from pvp and started shooting at me. by the time i popped his ship i was in structure already. why would that be? 1) his drones were T2 2) his repper was T2 3) his guns were T2 (my log was telling me he was dealing double the damage per hit i was doing back then) want me to keep going? yes i won. i won because the fight started because a vet player made a noob mistake of going afk. but that and all the fights i did later against players with just 2-3 more month than me showd me that T2 = win against T1. in order to get T2 i need to get skills up first. getting skills up = boring time. and the game itself does NOT encourage you to do anything specific, you could just log off and come for skill swap, and CCP would be a happy bunny coz you pay, but u don't use their server resources. Ok, generally I cringe when people shout "go back to whatever" but in this case you are bringing a mindset into EvE that belongs in other MMOs. What you are asking for here is a skill system that rewards you for in game action. In 1 on 1 the person who is better equipped should win. Your problem is that in order to get the better equipment you have to train it which takes time. There is no active reward for training until it is complete. There for what you are asking for is a change to a classic RPG style of XP gain. As for EvE not encouraging you while training, no one is going to hold your hand here. I think Jacinta Worth hit the nail on the head as far as your boredom problem, but only you can do something to fix that.
Kwint Sommer Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion	Posted - 2007.10.29 19:46:00 - [85] Deer OP, Things have been substantially dumbed down over the last year to make it easier for noobs like you to get higher level content. It took hours for me to get my first million ISK and I was proud of it. Flying a cruiser was a big deal for me and because you didn't start out with so much and ISK wasn't so easy to make you actually waited until you had substantial skills to get into a BS. During those 6+ months of training for that BS I would usually fly around PvPing and having fun in a frigate. Now that noobs can jump into a BS quickly I guess they don't appreciate the tremendous diversity and versatility of smaller ships. If you want to make tons of ISK then grind L4's but if you want to enjoy the richness of possible roles and activities of EVE then get into something small and quick and have fun. Noobs have most of the non POS content in the game available to them so stop whining that us veterans finally got something that didn't include the phrase "nerf". Sig removed. Please keep sigs to 400x120 pixels and 24000 bytes in size or less. -Kaemonn
kurg Amarr Science Production And NuKing Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.29 19:48:00 - [86] Originally by: Kwint Sommer Deer OP, Things have been substantially dumbed down over the last year to make it easier for noobs like you to get higher level content. It took hours for me to get my first million ISK and I was proud of it. Flying a cruiser was a big deal for me and because you didn't start out with so much and ISK wasn't so easy to make you actually waited until you had substantial skills to get into a BS. During those 6+ months of training for that BS I would usually fly around PvPing and having fun in a frigate. Now that noobs can jump into a BS quickly I guess they don't appreciate the tremendous diversity and versatility of smaller ships. If you want to make tons of ISK then grind L4's but if you want to enjoy the richness of possible roles and activities of EVE then get into something small and quick and have fun. Noobs have most of the non POS content in the game available to them so stop whining that us veterans finally got something that didn't include the phrase "nerf". Very well put!
Threv Echandari Caldari Dragons Of Redemption Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.29 20:04:00 - [87] Originally by: Kayna Eelai Originally by: Tarminic Also, how is this even relevant to the overall discussion? because i claimed that in order to be ANY good in pvp, you need certain skills, like T2 guns and that's it's pretty boring while those skills go up... and some smartass came and said that's not correct, that a rifter could kill a titan any day (well not exactly like this, but sums it up) And I'll have to say BS to some of that. I PVP and the majority of my kills come from T1 Cruises (though I do load Faction Ammo)and EWAR, and I fly a Glass Cannon (Manticore) sure I rat in a Raven but I can rat in a Drake whose tank blows away Raven. Or a Brutix, heck If I want really Challenge myself I can take on triple 1.4 mill BS spawns in an Arbitrator! (Is it efficient...err no but it is fun) I used to think like you (and I'm a C64 era guy) about all the real ****zle happens when I get T2 Guns, and it a boring waiting game till then. But I have found more fun in the T2 Frigs than in BS's. but thats me. I also Trained Both Amarr AND Caldari all T1 combat ships to BS4, and am training to get Amarr T2 Frigs. When I got bored with those I trained Gallente and even a little Minmatar. Now I will admit that had I styed focused I could have had my T2 Guns earlier but I wanted to experience the different ships to see what I liked. Once you have the basics trained and your learns the door is wide open. Heck I have not really tried Exploration despite the fact I trained all the Skills for that too. (Oh all that and I have LESS than 13 million SP). Am I Training T2 guns, yes (now seriously) I'm on the last leg T2 Large Hybrids. But thats becuase my alliance needs it, but I am useful as a Tackler or EWAR or Support. since I just got T2 Med Hybrids, Myrmidons are now a new tool in my box. I think that there are plenty of things for Newbies to do and learn. The Biggest problem is acculturation to the Corp/Gang Philosophy. No man is an Island and Teamwork leads to big Success. You mentioned that somewhere that there is no place for a small (what 20-40 man?) corp to make a name. Well I be to Differ. Triumvirate started off as a small pirate gang living in NPC stations last year. Now look at us. admittidly I was not around for the Early days but I have been in other Corps and surrounding yourself with like-minded players will increase the fun factor. Unfortunately there is no way to easily "Shepperd" or Mentor new players into Corps and get them out of the newbie corps. Is there alot of work to be done to improve the "NPE" sure, but increasing the number of ships isn't one of them.
Adunh Slavy KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.29 20:07:00 - [88] When I started this game I had a lot of the same thoughts and feelings youÆre having (OP Author). Eventually I realized I donÆt have to follow anyoneÆs silly rules about what I should or should not do. I found other things to do no one ever talks about, going after npc convoys, low sec trade runs in cheap crappy little ships, using probs to find all the crap people leave all over the place, youÆd be amazed at the stuff I found. You have two throw away characters too, keep skills on your main and with one of those guys, go be a noob pirate, blow something up, steal some other noobs cans, whatever. ISK is not more valuable than fun. Once you get that concept you can see Eve as a game again like you probably did your first few days. So youÆll never be the uber person or run a huge alliance. The sooner you accept this, the sooner you can have fun. Keep your clone up to date and everything else is gravey. -AS
Threv Echandari Caldari Dragons Of Redemption Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.29 20:21:00 - [89] Originally by: Adunh Slavy W So youÆll never be the uber person or run a huge alliance. The sooner you accept this, the sooner you can have fun. Keep your clone up to date and everything else is gravy. I agree with you one on everything but that. Everyone has the potential to be an Uber player or run a Huge alliance. However not everyone has the Drive or temperament. But I guess RL is like that too eh?
Sky Grunthor Minmatar Core Element	Posted - 2007.10.29 20:22:00 - [90] I really can't agree with the op on this. I'm 5ish months old (2007-5-16) and already can fly every single t2 minmatar frigate out there. I was effective in pvp combat from the moment I could fly a rifter with webbers and scram capability. I was not and am still not a capable solo pvper but I never expect to be. And I don't need uber skills to waste chump change on pvp. I do however notice the very deeply the waste bin that is pvp in terms of isk. it only gets worse. However I think pvp is worth it. Do I really want to spend hours ratting or missioning? not really. However I did do the missioning to get the Jump clone capability so that I could do the 0.0 ratting and pvping that I wanted to do. but this game is not about your skills. never has been. There is alway someone with more sp than you and more money than you. Its about getting out there with a group (small in my opinion) and duking it out with the next guy. In all my previous mmo experience it was the guys with the lvl 40 or whatever to my lv 3 that won. it was a rule. you couldn't get around it. He does 3billion damage to my 5 damage. and you couldn't get around that other than grinding more and more and more until you where lvl 40. It didn't matter if there was 40 of lvl 5's versus that lvl 40.. the lvl 40 won. With eve you take 40 of the newbs in with a variety of shortly trained skills and YOU can win. Its not garaunteed. But its also not garaunteed that the high sp player will win either. Theres plenty for new guys to do. If anything its the blob big ship focus of the forums and the talk that like this very thread here that hides all that wonderful stuff. http://ineve.net/skills/character.php?charID=MTc3Mjg4MzM4Nw%3D%3D Search: Sky Grunthor

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