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stab nerf has not fixed the problem

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Jones Maloy Minmatar	Posted - 2007.10.30 14:19:00 - [1] Edited by: Jones Maloy on 30/10/2007 14:21:23 the problem is: some ships and setups can achieve the i-win-or-i-run button. ccp's solution: nerf stabs. effect: ships now speed tank to escape from undisirable fights and are still able to take out normalily equiped ships. while mission runners and ratters can no longer target at a decent range while at the same time being safe from scrams. new problem: some ships and setups can achieve the i-win-or-i-run button. solution: un-nerf stabs and _______________ to fix the problem. any suggestions? <edit> i just noticed that the stababond has turned into the nanobond. maybe the ship is the problem? </edit>
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.30 14:22:00 - [2] Originally by: Jones Maloy Edited by: Jones Maloy on 30/10/2007 14:21:23 the problem is: some ships and setups can achieve the i-win-or-i-run button. ccp's solution: nerf stabs. effect: ships now speed tank to escape from undisirable fights and are still able to take out normalily equiped ships. while mission runners and ratters can no longer target at a decent range while at the same time being safe from scrams. new problem: some ships and setups can achieve the i-win-or-i-run button. solution: un-nerf stabs and _______________ to fix the problem. any suggestions? <edit> i just noticed that the stababond has turned into the nanobond. maybe the ship is the problem? </edit> Nerf vagabond.
Arvald Caldari House of Tempers	Posted - 2007.10.30 14:25:00 - [3] Edited by: Arvald on 30/10/2007 14:24:57 Originally by: Jones Maloy Edited by: Jones Maloy on 30/10/2007 14:21:23 the problem is: some ships and setups can achieve the i-win-or-i-run button. ccp's solution: nerf stabs. effect: ships now speed tank to escape from undisirable fights and are still able to take out normalily equiped ships. while mission runners and ratters can no longer target at a decent range while at the same time being safe from scrams. new problem: some ships and setups can achieve the i-win-or-i-run button. solution: un-nerf stabs and _______________ to fix the problem. any suggestions? <edit> i just noticed that the stababond has turned into the nanobond. maybe the ship is the problem? </edit> ...you do relize that prety much every nano ship if its going so fast that not even prisicion missle will hit it, that it cant hit you with guns.....right? --------------------------- Originally by: eddie valvetino little small voice in the back of my head i've ignored all summer now screams "BLOW SOMETHING UP!!!!!!!!! M***R FCKER!!!!!!"
William DeMeo Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2007.10.30 14:33:00 - [4] Originally by: Jones Maloy Edited by: Jones Maloy on 30/10/2007 14:21:23 the problem is: some ships and setups can achieve the i-win-or-i-run button. ccp's solution: nerf stabs. effect: ships now speed tank to escape from undisirable fights and are still able to take out normalily equiped ships. while mission runners and ratters can no longer target at a decent range while at the same time being safe from scrams. new problem: some ships and setups can achieve the i-win-or-i-run button. solution: un-nerf stabs and _______________ to fix the problem. any suggestions? <edit> i just noticed that the stababond has turned into the nanobond. maybe the ship is the problem? </edit> The speed bonus + the description on the vaga might be an indication it's supposed to go fast . Solution? Stop sucking. And stabs suck. Yarr
OwnedBy Me	Posted - 2007.10.30 14:39:00 - [5] Edited by: OwnedBy Me on 30/10/2007 14:40:06 More whines on the forums.. The vaga will never kill u if u have a brain and use it... It will kill you if ur ratting in a belt or if ur at a planet.. If u warp to the station u mwd to it and dock, same with a gate.. If u jump in and there is a vaga, go to the gate if he agros u jump back.. If he doesnt u align and warp to the next gate.. They dont have webs dude, and if they do and go into ur web range they are dead.. Now if you cant kill it in ur gang you might just not be because its overpowered, it might be ur gang that sucks/wrong fittings...
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.30 14:42:00 - [6] Originally by: OwnedBy Me Edited by: OwnedBy Me on 30/10/2007 14:40:06 More whines on the forums.. The vaga will never kill u if u have a brain and use it... It will kill you if ur ratting in a belt or if ur at a planet.. If u warp to the station u mwd to it and dock, same with a gate.. If u jump in and there is a vaga, go to the gate if he agros u jump back.. If he doesnt u align and warp to the next gate.. They dont have webs dude, and if they do and go into ur web range they are dead.. Now if you cant kill it in ur gang you might just not be because its overpowered, it might be ur gang that sucks/wrong fittings... Something feels terribly wrong when a vaga bond catches my 7+km/s crusader and kills it without webs. They should be fast but not friggin interceptor fast. Its imbalanced and you know it.
mallina Caldari Core Contingency	Posted - 2007.10.30 14:45:00 - [7] Vagabond is incredibly ineffective against anyone with a clue. It can run away a lot and sometimes kill NPCers, but is otherwise just an oversized Interceptor. It's a great ship for people who care about nothing but their ubar K/D ratio, but generally nothing more than an annoyance compared to actual combat ships. ---
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.30 14:47:00 - [8] Originally by: mallina an oversized Interceptor. And you dont see how this is so wrong in so many ways? Its the same deal with the nano domis. They got nerfed. Why? Because something that big going that fast and having too much dps for its speed is imbalanced. Vagas will get nerfed some day.
OwnedBy Me	Posted - 2007.10.30 14:48:00 - [9] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: OwnedBy Me Edited by: OwnedBy Me on 30/10/2007 14:40:06 More whines on the forums.. The vaga will never kill u if u have a brain and use it... It will kill you if ur ratting in a belt or if ur at a planet.. If u warp to the station u mwd to it and dock, same with a gate.. If u jump in and there is a vaga, go to the gate if he agros u jump back.. If he doesnt u align and warp to the next gate.. They dont have webs dude, and if they do and go into ur web range they are dead.. Now if you cant kill it in ur gang you might just not be because its overpowered, it might be ur gang that sucks/wrong fittings... Something feels terribly wrong when a vaga bond catches my 7+km/s crusader and kills it without webs. They should be fast but not friggin interceptor fast. Its imbalanced and you know it. If you used a snake implant set u might just have been going a bit faster then the vaga ?... U should be going fast with implants and what not.. And dont just run away in a straigt line.. That will get u killed by even a large gun.. lulz
Last Wolf Templars of Space	Posted - 2007.10.30 14:51:00 - [10] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: mallina an oversized Interceptor. And you dont see how this is so wrong in so many ways? Its the same deal with the nano domis. They got nerfed. Why? Because something that big going that fast and having too much dps for its speed is imbalanced. Vagas will get nerfed some day. Don't fly in a straight line? Hell even a sieged dread will pop you if you do that.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.30 14:53:00 - [11] Originally by: Last Wolf Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: mallina an oversized Interceptor. And you dont see how this is so wrong in so many ways? Its the same deal with the nano domis. They got nerfed. Why? Because something that big going that fast and having too much dps for its speed is imbalanced. Vagas will get nerfed some day. Don't fly in a straight line? Hell even a sieged dread will pop you if you do that. I think you two are missing the point.
Jones Maloy Minmatar	Posted - 2007.10.30 14:53:00 - [12] i've never encountered a nanobond before as i never go into low sec. nerfing stabs didn't do enough so maybe that wasn't the right move. to fix a problem you can make slight tweaks or a huge overhaul. i've found that most things in-between don't work very well. my issue is that nerfing stabs was not the way to fix the problem and had many undisireable side effects. therefore, un-nerf stabs and do something to fix the problem while not affecting anything else. --- WCS Nerf boycott low-sec
OwnedBy Me	Posted - 2007.10.30 14:55:00 - [13] Originally by: Jones Maloy Hr. i havent see a vagabond but lets change it right now, i hate having a longer lock time when i fit stabs on my Caldari Navy Raven I see what u did there
Arvald Caldari House of Tempers	Posted - 2007.10.30 14:56:00 - [14] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: mallina an oversized Interceptor. And you dont see how this is so wrong in so many ways? Its the same deal with the nano domis. They got nerfed. Why? Because something that big going that fast and having too much dps for its speed is imbalanced. Vagas will get nerfed some day. well then i guess we should be glad that their not that big and dont ahve taht much dps then eh? --------------------------- Originally by: eddie valvetino little small voice in the back of my head i've ignored all summer now screams "BLOW SOMETHING UP!!!!!!!!! M***R FCKER!!!!!!"
Daelin Blackleaf Aliastra	Posted - 2007.10.30 15:00:00 - [15] Originally by: Jones Maloy the problem is: some ships and setups can achieve the i-win-or-i-run button. You stoled my wordz! Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf [29/10/2007] A speed tank should be a viable tactic, reducing damage in a manner comparable to a standard tank while providing added mobility and range dictation, but it should not an I-win-or-I-run button.
Jones Maloy Minmatar	Posted - 2007.10.30 15:05:00 - [16] Originally by: OwnedBy Me Originally by: Jones Maloy quote stealing and editing is rude I see what u did there huh? i fly a pve destroyer. my account was inactive for two years. they also reduce lock range by a .50 modifier. fitting two to counter one scram would reduce your targeting range to 25% of what it would be otherwise. the point of this thread is that the stab nerf did not fix anything and should be undone --- WCS Nerf boycott low-sec
achoura	Posted - 2007.10.30 15:07:00 - [17] Originally by: Jones Maloy i've never encountered a nanobond before as i never go into low sec. nerfing stabs didn't do enough so maybe that wasn't the right move. to fix a problem you can make slight tweaks or a huge overhaul. i've found that most things in-between don't work very well. my issue is that nerfing stabs was not the way to fix the problem and had many undisireable side effects. therefore, un-nerf stabs and do something to fix the problem while not affecting anything else. You just don't understand - this is exactly what the vaga was designed to do. That is it's role. What you also do not understand is that pre stab nerf you hardly ever saw nanoed vagas they were all slow and stabbed because the bulk of the pilots were inexperienced and phobic about loosing that hac that cost them 200 mil + fittings (when tii mods weren't cheap). What they always failed to understand was a vagas strength is speed which has always been a more effective tactic than stabbing. The final thing you do not understand is fitting stabs on a pvp ship is a complete waste of a slot or, more to the point, the ship and pilot are not fit for the task. If you're going into a fight you don't plan on winning you shouldn't be there and that's all stabs are good for so no they're good the way you are. In eve if you gain something someplace you loose something someplace else, in stabs case someplace haullers arn't effected. The only reason for someone to want stabs the way they were is so they can go pick fights then run when they're loosing. Improve your piloting skills before blaming gms and modules.
Alowishus Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.30 15:10:00 - [18] I-win-or-I-run is what a good PvPer does. Fact of life. CCP will fix the Vagabond when they are cheap enough, and plentiful enough, that everyone uses them because they're the defacto I-win ship. But don't expect that to happen because last I checked these are pretty expensive and hard to find. Which means the problem is not big enough for anyone, other than the few who have been killed by one, to notice. FWIW: I've never been killed by a Vagabond. But if you really believe it's this huge problem, the solution I am offering up is 10,000m/s webifying missiles.
Cheif Wongmarainer	Posted - 2007.10.30 15:14:00 - [19] Edited by: Cheif Wongmarainer on 30/10/2007 15:16:48 Edited by: Cheif Wongmarainer on 30/10/2007 15:15:40 Originally by: achoura Originally by: Jones Maloy i've never encountered a nanobond before as i never go into low sec. nerfing stabs didn't do enough so maybe that wasn't the right move. to fix a problem you can make slight tweaks or a huge overhaul. i've found that most things in-between don't work very well. my issue is that nerfing stabs was not the way to fix the problem and had many undisireable side effects. therefore, un-nerf stabs and do something to fix the problem while not affecting anything else. You just don't understand - this is exactly what the vaga was designed to do. That is it's role. What you also do not understand is that pre stab nerf you hardly ever saw nanoed vagas they were all slow and stabbed because the bulk of the pilots were inexperienced and phobic about loosing that hac that cost them 200 mil + fittings (when tii mods weren't cheap). What they always failed to understand was a vagas strength is speed which has always been a more effective tactic than stabbing. The final thing you do not understand is fitting stabs on a pvp ship is a complete waste of a slot or, more to the point, the ship and pilot are not fit for the task. If you're going into a fight you don't plan on winning you shouldn't be there and that's all stabs are good for so no they're good the way you are. In eve if you gain something someplace you loose something someplace else, in stabs case someplace haullers arn't effected. The only reason for someone to want stabs the way they were is so they can go pick fights then run when they're loosing. Improve your piloting skills before blaming gms and modules. i use pve setups and i want to be able to trade low-slots for the ability to warp away if somone tries to kill me. with the .5 modifier to max targeting range i can't fit any and still be effective at ratting or mission running. and the nerf does affect indys. they have to lock targets to use the tractor beam. if vagabonds are fine then un-nerf stabs because what was the point of nerfing them anyway if people can still get the same result using a different setup? also i doubt my destroyer could tank a t2 cruiser. <god damn alt is always set as default poster. please fix it to select the last poster as the default--jonesy>
Alowishus Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.30 15:23:00 - [20] Stabs were nerfed because of Vagabonds? I always thought it was Ravens.
mallina Caldari Core Contingency	Posted - 2007.10.30 15:25:00 - [21] whether Vaga or speed-setups in general are overpowered or not is another matter entirely. The fact is, people will do anything to minimize the risks and give them some chance of surviving if things go bad. This may include: Stabs Ludicrous Speed Damping Target Jamming ECM Drones ECM Burst Nerfing insane speedsetups is fine and all, but the potential FOTM after that (ECM+ECM Drones, which are stupendously effective compared to standard combat drones) dosen't sound too appealing, either. I would hope CCP were smart about what they did, if anything. Last thing we want is another Jamfest. ---
Kruel Blunt Force Syndicate	Posted - 2007.10.30 15:31:00 - [22] I've never been killed by a Vaga, but I've killed a few (and made more than a few run). Stop with all the damn "nerf this" whines. Get out of your farming Ravens and pvp.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.30 15:33:00 - [23] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: mallina an oversized Interceptor. And you dont see how this is so wrong in so many ways? Its the same deal with the nano domis. They got nerfed. Why? Because something that big going that fast and having too much dps for its speed is imbalanced. Vagas will get nerfed some day. No, its completely different deal, Because vagabond must slow down to deal damage. So it cannto kill you and be safe at same time. So its NOT overpowered, its PERFECLTY balanced. You must be an IDIOT to die to a solo vagabond easily if you are in a tier 2 BC or better. A nanoishtar is FAR FAR more dangerous (but the dampener nerf will diminish that) If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
William DeMeo Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2007.10.30 15:39:00 - [24] Edited by: William DeMeo on 30/10/2007 15:44:56 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: OwnedBy Me Edited by: OwnedBy Me on 30/10/2007 14:40:06 More whines on the forums.. The vaga will never kill u if u have a brain and use it... It will kill you if ur ratting in a belt or if ur at a planet.. If u warp to the station u mwd to it and dock, same with a gate.. If u jump in and there is a vaga, go to the gate if he agros u jump back.. If he doesnt u align and warp to the next gate.. They dont have webs dude, and if they do and go into ur web range they are dead.. Now if you cant kill it in ur gang you might just not be because its overpowered, it might be ur gang that sucks/wrong fittings... Something feels terribly wrong when a vaga bond catches my 7+km/s crusader and kills it without webs. They should be fast but not friggin interceptor fast. Its imbalanced and you know it. No, it's not imbalanced. I can't imagine it's very hard to get out of disruptor range when you're in a frig doing 7km/s, you turn alot faster then a vaga you know... EDIT: only stupid people die to any type of nano hac if they're in a tier 2 BC, Vaga simply doesn't have the dps to break most tanks, the ishtar's drones pop in a matter of seconds and can't be scooped so it's frankly a ***** to kill anyone with half a braincell in the ishtar, even many cruisers can survive it if they're plated. Yarr
Jones Maloy Minmatar	Posted - 2007.10.30 15:43:00 - [25] hi, i'd like to shift the attention back to why the stab nerf didn't accomplish much/anything --- WCS Nerf boycott low-sec
Solid Trust Minmatar Haven Front	Posted - 2007.10.30 15:46:00 - [26] With the introduction of two additional ships with web bonuses the Nano ships are taking a nerf. Couple that with heat and Vagas can never get close enough to kill anything safely except stupid frig/inty pilots who follow the Vaga out too far (and away from the gang).
OwnedBy Me	Posted - 2007.10.30 15:50:00 - [27] Originally by: Jones Maloy hi, i'd like to shift the attention back to why the stab nerf didn't accomplish much/anything Are u a slow person ? It did a lot.. People dont fit them on ships they pvp in, no more stab gangs.. That was what it was meant to do and it did.. Stop being a fukken r-tard
Jones Maloy Minmatar Unified Naval Command	Posted - 2007.10.30 15:57:00 - [28] Originally by: OwnedBy Me Originally by: Jones Maloy hi, i'd like to shift the attention back to why the stab nerf didn't accomplish much/anything Are u a slow person ? It did a lot.. People dont fit them on ships they pvp in, no more stab gangs.. That was what it was meant to do and it did.. Stop being a fukken r-tard so now we have nano gangs. is anything any different? the nerf was not meant to hurt pve and looting in low-sec, but it did. also avoiding word filters by slightly altering words is an exploit. --- WCS Nerf yes i'm still angry
Jones Maloy Minmatar Unified Naval Command	Posted - 2007.10.30 16:04:00 - [29] Originally by: OwnedBy Me btw: hallo kitty is that way -> btw: throat slitting is this way ^ --- WCS Nerf yes i'm still angry
OwnedBy Me	Posted - 2007.10.30 16:08:00 - [30] Originally by: Jones Maloy Originally by: OwnedBy Me btw: hallo kitty is that way -> btw: throat slitting is this way ^ But u cant handle that Would have been fun thought.. Btw: one could say that was a rl thing to say as there is no throat slitting in eve but ill just guess by ur other posts that u are a clueless WOW player.

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