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FreddyCheeseman
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Posted - 2007.10.31 08:25:00 -
[1]
OK so last night a corp mate and I were out hunting. We found one of our targets active in space, and began tracking him. I finally managed to get him at a gate, at which point he promptly logged off. Not a problem, his Raven tried to warp but was going nowhere under my warp disruptor II, and was promptly webbed down and being blasted to pieces whilst my corp mate raced from his gate to help. The shields were almost gone, when the Raven just vanished. Removed from space by a player who shall remain unamed logging a different character on to save hs sorry hide. I was expecting it as soon as he logged, but was hoping he wasn't *that* lame.
The point...is there anything I can do about it? Beyond his his ass down to the ends of the earth popping everything he ever flies. If I petition it, what action will CCP take? I can provide locator mails building up to the capture of our target, and I can also provide the warp scrambler notice from my Log, which all have the time and date leading up to the encounter. Do CCP have log records to see when this individul logged off and when he brought on his alt?
Thanks in advance, this really ticked me off......
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WhiteSavage
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Posted - 2007.10.31 08:28:00 -
[2]
This is a huge issue as there are a lot of people who practive it. I say put a simple min. time adjustment to switching chars.
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Captain Thunk
Omniscient Order Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.10.31 08:31:00 -
[3]
This is a common misconception.
The 'logging on another char' doesn't actually work. What happened was he logged off before you aggro'd and was under the 1 minute timer before removal from game. You warp scrammed him before he auto warped to the 1mil km safespot so you were able to witness his disappearance after 60 seconds.
That said it's still lame to be able to log off to avoid dangerous situations. But Eve is about taking no risk for maximum reward now so good luck getting it changed.
THUNK!
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lolzor
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Posted - 2007.10.31 08:34:00 -
[4]
Originally by: FreddyCheeseman OK so last night a corp mate and I were out hunting. We found one of our targets active in space, and began tracking him. I finally managed to get him at a gate, at which point he promptly logged off. Not a problem, his Raven tried to warp but was going nowhere under my warp disruptor II, and was promptly webbed down and being blasted to pieces whilst my corp mate raced from his gate to help. The shields were almost gone, when the Raven just vanished. Removed from space by a player who shall remain unamed logging a different character on to save hs sorry hide. I was expecting it as soon as he logged, but was hoping he wasn't *that* lame.
The point...is there anything I can do about it? Beyond his his ass down to the ends of the earth popping everything he ever flies. If I petition it, what action will CCP take? I can provide locator mails building up to the capture of our target, and I can also provide the warp scrambler notice from my Log, which all have the time and date leading up to the encounter. Do CCP have log records to see when this individul logged off and when he brought on his alt?
Thanks in advance, this really ticked me off......
Utter bull****, logging in another character has no effect at all on characters that might be still in space.
He just logged out before you could get an agression off on him, thus he will vanish after about 1 or 2 minutes.
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FreddyCheeseman
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Posted - 2007.10.31 08:40:00 -
[5]
Originally by: lolzor
Utter bull****, logging in another character has no effect at all on characters that might be still in space.
He just logged out before you could get an agression off on him, thus he will vanish after about 1 or 2 minutes.
OK so I was under a misconception,my humble apologies lolzor. But at the end of the day this guy logged to save his ship and I dont think thats really acceptable.
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lolzor
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Posted - 2007.10.31 08:41:00 -
[6]
Originally by: FreddyCheeseman
Originally by: lolzor
Utter bull****, logging in another character has no effect at all on characters that might be still in space.
He just logged out before you could get an agression off on him, thus he will vanish after about 1 or 2 minutes.
OK so I was under a misconception,my humble apologies lolzor. But at the end of the day this guy logged to save his ship and I dont think thats really acceptable.
Its a perfectly viable way of using game mechanics.
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FreddyCheeseman
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Posted - 2007.10.31 08:46:00 -
[7]
So whats the point in pvp? Battleships become invincible to anything but the most severe ganks. The sheer HP volume on those ships means that not many people will be able to down them within a minute. Whats the point in wardeccing a corp and spending time hunting them when they can just log off? It becomes an utter waste of time because you wont be able to ever kill anybody if they can just log when in danger....
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Drasked
North Face Force
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Posted - 2007.10.31 08:50:00 -
[8]
Originally by: FreddyCheeseman So whats the point in pvp? Battleships become invincible to anything but the most severe ganks. The sheer HP volume on those ships means that not many people will be able to down them within a minute. Whats the point in wardeccing a corp and spending time hunting them when they can just log off? It becomes an utter waste of time because you wont be able to ever kill anybody if they can just log when in danger....
Killing a raven that logged out in under 2 min is pretty easy (ofcourse you will need some dps), If you had agressed him before he logged out, then his ship would stay in place (if scrambled) for 15min and if not scrambled the ship will warp off and stay at a savespot for 15min, in both cases its also pretty easy to kill them if you have the right tools (probes)
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Delusion 'Fel
Minmatar Nefarious Ratiocinations Zzz
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Posted - 2007.10.31 08:51:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Delusion ''Fel on 31/10/2007 08:52:27 To be fair tho, this mechanic is also what protects pilots, like you and me, from being ganked when their net connection dies on them.
Sure the log off exploit is a pain, but im happier knowing theres a mechanism which some players will exploit to save their ship and which will also save me if my local exchange is hit by lightning, than knowing a few "lame" players lost their emergency escape option.
I dont mind loosing my ship in a fair fight. I do object to loosing it because the internet fell over.
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FreddyCheeseman
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Posted - 2007.10.31 08:53:00 -
[10]
I was in a brutix, and he logged when he was under cloak from the gate. I got him scram'd but he was retruning from a mission and woul undoubtedly have a few LSE II's on his ship. I couldnt bust through the sheer HP despite him having no active tank. He was certainly NOT there for 15minutes, otherwise I could have killed him several times.
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Shanur
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.10.31 09:01:00 -
[11]
Sounds like a textbook logoffski in my opinion, which is a topic that has been discussed to death. CCP is aware of the cheezy nature of it, but can not pursue it as an exploit because a logoffski is indistinguishable from genuine issues with a shoddy connection. If you have an idea that will remove the ability to logoffski WITHOUT removing EVEN ONE BIT of the protection the current logoff mechanics offer to people with disconnection problems, let's hear it. Otherwise, take a number. This issue has annoyed people in the game for several yars now. |
Sleepkevert
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.31 09:15:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Drasked
Originally by: FreddyCheeseman So whats the point in pvp? Battleships become invincible to anything but the most severe ganks. The sheer HP volume on those ships means that not many people will be able to down them within a minute. Whats the point in wardeccing a corp and spending time hunting them when they can just log off? It becomes an utter waste of time because you wont be able to ever kill anybody if they can just log when in danger....
Killing a raven that logged out in under 2 min is pretty easy (ofcourse you will need some dps), If you had agressed him before he logged out, then his ship would stay in place (if scrambled) for 15min and if not scrambled the ship will warp off and stay at a savespot for 15min, in both cases its also pretty easy to kill them if you have the right tools (probes)
Sooo, you are saying we all should join +30 ship blobs? And as far as the aggro before logout goes, they logout when they are cloaked from the jump trough the gate... I'v seen a nighthawk do it before, and this is EVE at his lamest...
Sign my sig |
Zaqar
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Posted - 2007.10.31 09:24:00 -
[13]
Welcome to Chicken-Online
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Ogdru Jahad
Amarr War Dawgs
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Posted - 2007.10.31 09:34:00 -
[14]
Originally by: FreddyCheeseman Edited by: FreddyCheeseman on 31/10/2007 09:02:47 I was in a brutix, and he logged when he was under cloak from the gate so was impossible to get aggression before he logged. I got him scram'd but he was retruning from a mission and would undoubtedly have a few LSE II's on his ship. I couldnt bust through the sheer HP despite him having no active tank.
So Im geting the feeling that petitioning this would be a profound waste of time? Though I might just do it to get CCPs official stand point on this matter. Ill post the gist of any response I get to clear up if this is a "viable game mechanic" as lolzor said or if CCP declare it an exploit, albeit an uncatchable one (whos to say his net didnt die at the most unfortunate time....yea right).
gets worse. once they know they got away they use the 1m km safe spot login trick. and endup 1m km from you when they do warp back in. -
At last the Gallente can finally lay claim to saying... "my DICtor" is bigger than yours.
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Paulo Damarr
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Posted - 2007.10.31 09:44:00 -
[15]
It depends on how they are performing their "logoffski" some RTS games have the ability to detect how a player leaves the game in competitive ranked matches, some even know the difference when a player pulls out their modem power cable.
Originally by: MOTOK0 A bit like the second coming of jesus only with screaming and tears and whine threads.
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AntonioBanderas
Empirius Enigmus Navy Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.10.31 10:00:00 -
[16]
^^this is it so hard to implenemt quitting signal to a client? If user quits, signal is sent to the server to let him know that client it's quitting by user request. Otherwise, if no signal is sent, server assumes thet connection was lost and it initiates warp to safety. So CTRL+Q would send signal. Plugging the ethernet cord out of NIC wouldnt, but atleast it woudl be a hassle.
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Banana Torres
The Green Banana Corporation
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Posted - 2007.10.31 10:24:00 -
[17]
This thread make me happy.
Its good that we have a nice logoff thread, so much better than the, "oh noes they are nurfing my uber ship" crap that the Eve community has been farting out recently.
Other than that, I have nothing to add to this thread. If you want to know my views on logging off your can read my posts in the several gazillion other threads on this.
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FreddyCheeseman
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Posted - 2007.10.31 10:57:00 -
[18]
Sorry for posting about log offs again, I wasnt really aware that many threads already existed as Im relatively new to pvp and this is the first experience of someone doing this. The Eve forums dont have any kind search function which makes digging up old info hard.
I did wonder about having some form of timed log out. Say when you click quit, a little timer comes up saying "leaving game in 30secs" or whatever. Atleast any lamer who trys to log at a gate would decloak so you can aggro him before he manages to log. Yes its still open to pulling the net cable, but as previously mentioned atleast its a hastle to pull the plug on your net. Makes it less easy I suppose.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.10.31 10:59:00 -
[19]
Originally by: lolzor
Originally by: FreddyCheeseman
Originally by: lolzor
Utter bull****, logging in another character has no effect at all on characters that might be still in space.
He just logged out before you could get an agression off on him, thus he will vanish after about 1 or 2 minutes.
OK so I was under a misconception,my humble apologies lolzor. But at the end of the day this guy logged to save his ship and I dont think thats really acceptable.
Its a perfectly viable way of using game mechanics.
I shall put it to the devs at fanfest. Because I know they love questions like that :) -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? GMP and TNP |
Blackjack Turner
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Posted - 2007.10.31 11:09:00 -
[20]
Originally by: FreddyCheeseman Edited by: FreddyCheeseman on 31/10/2007 08:36:32 OK so last night a corp mate and I were out hunting. We found one of our targets active in space, and began tracking him. I finally managed to get him at a gate, at which point he promptly logged off. Not a problem, his Raven tried to warp but was going nowhere under my warp disruptor II, and was promptly webbed down and being blasted to pieces whilst my corp mate raced from his gate to help. The shields were almost gone, when the Raven just vanished. Removed from space by a player who shall remain unamed logging a different character on to save hs sorry hide. I was expecting it as soon as he logged, but was hoping he wasn't *that* lame.
The point...is there anything I can do about it? Beyond hunting his ass down to the ends of the earth popping everything he ever flies. If I petition it, what action will CCP take? I can provide locator mails building up to the capture of our target, and I can also provide the warp scrambler notice from my Log, which all have the time and date leading up to the encounter. Do CCP have log records to see when this individul logged off and when he brought on his alt?
Thanks in advance, this really ticked me off......
YARR!! Ye lost yer killmail matey, it'd make me mad too!!
Seriously, wtf?? Better luck next time.
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RetributionBitch01
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Posted - 2007.10.31 13:28:00 -
[21]
First imagine this your are just walking along and suddenly 2 guys with knifes and guns jump out at you ,they start shooting and trying to knife you, WHAT DO YOU?,YOU RUN !!! AS FAST AND AS FAR AS YOU CAN!!!.
When faced with superior firepower,staying and dieing is stupid!! Every one of you so called PvPer's will run/log when your ship is down to hull,so stop the BS !!
IMHO he did the only thing he had availible to save himself,he ran and logged.
So in this case somebody got away from the muggers, Hooray !!!
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ry ry
StateCorp The State
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Posted - 2007.10.31 13:31:00 -
[22]
Edited by: ry ry on 31/10/2007 13:33:48
Originally by: Retribution*****01 First imagine this your are just walking along and suddenly 2 guys with knifes and guns jump out at you ,they start shooting and trying to knife you, WHAT DO YOU?,YOU RUN !!! AS FAST AND AS FAR AS YOU CAN!!!.
When faced with superior firepower,staying and dieing is stupid!! Every one of you so called PvPer's will run/log when your ship is down to hull,so stop the BS !!
IMHO he did the only thing he had availible to save himself,he ran and logged.
So in this case somebody got away from the muggers, Hooray !!!
except in real life, you can't just hit ctrl+q and be teleported back to your house to hide under a duvet until you think it's safe to come out.
ctrl+q shouldn't work if there is another ship within 10k or something imo.
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FreddyCheeseman
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Posted - 2007.10.31 13:36:00 -
[23]
Ive got to totally disagree. Logging off when you get caught out is the last gasp escape of a coward. If I found myself in that situation, I would try to escape or fight my way out, and yes I have done so before and managed to escape without logging. Once you jump into an enemy target, its your own fault for not scouting or being careful.
I dont get how some people can defend it, maybe im just some sort of idiot with noble ideas of honour and going down fighting.
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Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr Do Or Die And Live Or Try
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Posted - 2007.10.31 13:38:00 -
[24]
Declare on people who wants to fight instead of mission *****s, perhaps?
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Shakuul
Caldari O RLY corp YTMND.
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Posted - 2007.10.31 13:39:00 -
[25]
Maybe you should increase your DPS
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2007.10.31 14:06:00 -
[26]
Originally by: FreddyCheeseman
I dont get how some people can defend it, maybe im just some sort of idiot with noble ideas of honour and going down fighting.
I have to agree with Jaketh here. There is absolutely nothing noble about trying to gank what are essentially non-combatants, however temporary their status as such may be.
Non-consensual PvP is an important part of the game for sure, but there's nothing *noble* about it. Don't use that word and your logoffski whine is just fine and dandy.
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Phaedruss
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Posted - 2007.10.31 14:16:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Paulo Damarr It depends on how they are performing their "logoffski" some RTS games have the ability to detect how a player leaves the game in competitive ranked matches, some even know the difference when a player pulls out their modem power cable.
Yep, that would be a good way of doing it. Disconnects initiated via the player interface or game shortcuts should be treated differently to those initiated outside the game i.e. pulling the cable. It won't put a stop to logoffsky, but it certainly makes it less convenient.
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Xilimyth Derlin
The Funkalistic SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.31 14:21:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Phaedruss
Originally by: Paulo Damarr It depends on how they are performing their "logoffski" some RTS games have the ability to detect how a player leaves the game in competitive ranked matches, some even know the difference when a player pulls out their modem power cable.
Yep, that would be a good way of doing it. Disconnects initiated via the player interface or game shortcuts should be treated differently to those initiated outside the game i.e. pulling the cable. It won't put a stop to logoffsky, but it certainly makes it less convenient.
This is a grey subject though. How would the game treat a crash versus someone just ALT-F4ing? Personally, I'm of the belief that if you get agressed, and disconnected, the ship should stay and give the kill but the pod should never spawn.
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RetributionBitch01
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Posted - 2007.10.31 14:24:00 -
[29]
If I get jumped by one ship I fight until I die or the other guy dies or runs/logs. If I get jumped by 2 or more I run and log because no chance of winning,odds are 99% against you. If you wanted to be "noble" you would only shoot those that displayed they were willing to accept the fight. In Jumpgate players who were willing to accept any and all fights flew "Highguard" and had a tag that showed that to other players,they could be engaged anywhere and in any sector without any security penality. And a pilot flying "Highguard" could not log off for 300 sec a pilot not flying "Highguard" could log off immediatly. A pilot could only change their status highguard/non-highguard once a day. If some thing like this was in the game,all you "Quake" wannabes could have all the fights you wanted. After 2-3 weeks most of you would be flying non-highguard IMHO
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ry ry
StateCorp The State
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Posted - 2007.10.31 14:25:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Xilimyth Derlin This is a grey subject though. How would the game treat a crash versus someone just ALT-F4ing?
i don't think activating a module would cause an emergency warp ;)
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