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joshmorris
Ravenous Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.11.02 14:47:00 -
[31]
ECM is gonna get spammed and now the rook will be able to shut down about 5 bs ... At least with sensor damps you could get in range, with ecm you can't counter if u have 1 or 2 ECCM , Is this another nerf for amarr ? (no mids)
Uber idea solves all !! |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.11.02 14:50:00 -
[32]
Originally by: joshmorris ECM is gonna get spammed and now the rook will be able to shut down about 5 bs ... At least with sensor damps you could get in range, with ecm you can't counter if u have 1 or 2 ECCM , Is this another nerf for amarr ? (no mids)
Not to mention it'll die to the first person to get a flight of medium or heavy drones on it..it's made of tinfoil decorated with chocolate pudding
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joshmorris
Ravenous Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.11.02 14:52:00 -
[33]
Edited by: joshmorris on 02/11/2007 14:54:15 It can warp out and back in ... remember,
1: it should be about 80+ k away 2: Its got anything jammed that will be disrupting it. 3: If it see's a dictor it will be out asap b4 it gets to it.
I know all the probs they have its just that should 1 ship be able to shut down so many ?
Edit- I mean its fine as it is now, its just that every1 is moaning because it doesn't wtfpwn its balanced. BUT if these changes happen it will wtfpwn (and every1 will fly 1) and every1 will be asking for a nerf....
Uber idea solves all !! |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2007.11.02 14:55:00 -
[34]
I don't even think I can fit enough ECCM on my BSs to keep from being jammed. Damps are pretty much ruined- almost 30% reduction per damp in lock range damp effectiveness (after installing scripts). This means needing 3x damps to do the work of 2x previously. It's a total mess.
I have plenty of max skilled Rook/Scorp pilots in my crew. This change is just going to make ECCM come back like the plague it was. Right now it's fine. Max skilled pilots can jam anything they want, even with ECCM installed in their targets.
With the drone nerf, bleh. Drones will die much too quickly to counter any ECM.
Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I |
joshmorris
Ravenous Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.11.02 14:57:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus I don't even think I can fit enough ECCM on my BSs to keep from being jammed. Damps are pretty much ruined- almost 30% reduction per damp in lock range damp effectiveness (after installing scripts). This means needing 3x damps to do the work of 2x previously. It's a total mess.
I have plenty of max skilled Rook/Scorp pilots in my crew. This change is just going to make ECCM come back like the plague it was. Right now it's fine. Max skilled pilots can jam anything they want, even with ECCM installed in their targets.
With the drone nerf, bleh. Drones will die much too quickly to counter any ECM.
Thats what i'm trying to say, he just put it in a much better way. QFT !!!!!!!!!!
Uber idea solves all !! |
The Lamentress
Glenn Danzig's Mother
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Posted - 2007.11.02 15:12:00 -
[36]
Ooooh the nice
Originally by: Monsier Aragorn We come from CAOD to watch things here and quite frankly, no wonder why you folks don't dare to post there
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Galactic Magi
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Posted - 2007.11.02 16:12:00 -
[37]
Originally by: joshmorris ECM is gonna get spammed and now the rook will be able to shut down about 5 bs ... At least with sensor damps you could get in range, with ecm you can't counter if u have 1 or 2 ECCM , Is this another nerf for amarr ? (no mids)
You even give whiners a bad name. Read before posing next time maybe. Rook didnt get changed. It will still be the same ship it is now. Falcon bonus got boosted so now it will be similer as rook.
Only thing that looks good is the BB and Scorp, bb will be nice for newcomers in ew pvp. And pilot with bs 5 can do some serious EW with the scorp. This one was much needed considering thats the only thing this ship can do.
Dont know much about widow to comment but, looks a bit overpowered.
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Spartan dax
High4Life SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.02 16:13:00 -
[38]
Originally by: joshmorris ECM is gonna get spammed and now the rook will be able to shut down about 5 bs ...
Oh for crying out loud, the Rook can't do that today and the Rook isn't getting a boost either so quit your unfounded whining.
A Rook can solidly shut down 2 BS during a fight, add a third one and you're gonna start missing cycles. Add a fourth and those missed jams will get you killed or force you to jump out faster than you'd like. (as a Rook pilot that is.) Shutting down 5 BS's.... Not gonna happen.
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Lagerstars
Caldari Independent Operations Amen Anera
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Posted - 2007.11.02 16:15:00 -
[39]
Will def be using a Falcon more often if these changes make it on to TQ It will mean it could actually be a useful ship! -----------------------------------------
- This space intentionally left blank - |
Incantare
Caldari Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.11.02 16:21:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Sokratesz Epic win by CCP.
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FOFOFOF
CRAPSTORM
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Posted - 2007.11.02 16:22:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Spartan dax
Oh for crying out loud, the Rook can't do that today and the Rook isn't getting a boost either so quit your unfounded whining.
He got a point, the best ecm strengh bonus isnt getting anything better, what they done was to improve the other ships and get more usability out of they intended roles.
Gallente crap, plz, move along, this isnt your official drone/damp whine thread.
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Hozac
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Posted - 2007.11.02 17:04:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Hozac on 02/11/2007 17:05:57
So long dampfest. Hello ecmfest.
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ElCoCo
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.02 17:10:00 -
[43]
Edited by: ElCoCo on 02/11/2007 17:10:15 Falcon/widow is too much.... 15% would be enough. Other than that, I welcome the changes.
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Leya Marcsson
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Posted - 2007.11.02 17:21:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Hozac Hello ecmfest.
About time! Wasting all mid slots and 3 low slots on one purpose should give you a greater change to be good at it than the loosy slightly 50%-60% the BB/Scroption currently have at maxed skill! Both ships really need that boost!
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SkyEstaLimit
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Posted - 2007.11.02 17:29:00 -
[45]
I don't see the need for this boost. A scorpion can already perma jam a BS and a blackbird ... well it can also, so why boost em ?
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Wannabehero
Caldari Absolutely No Return The Red Skull
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Posted - 2007.11.02 18:02:00 -
[46]
This is fantastic News!
When I first started out in this game, I began training up in Caldari and ECM because I liked the idea of being an EW pilot. A couple of battles and several Blackbirds later I found this to be a losing proposition.
Now it is time to finish up that Caldari Recon training and dust off the ol' Scorpion.
Thank you CCP for the much need ECM rebalance. --
Don't harsh my mellow |
FOFOFOF
CRAPSTORM
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Posted - 2007.11.02 18:07:00 -
[47]
Originally by: SkyEstaLimit I don't see the need for this boost. A scorpion can already perma jam a BS and a blackbird ... well it can also, so why boost em ?
Im sorry, but have you done that before? permajam a BS in a BB?
Sounds like you dont have a clue or cant see the difference between a BB and a Rook, both are blacks, right...
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dor amwar
Foundation R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.11.02 18:08:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Denga Vulture ah well .. and why we nerf the arazu with its sensor damps ??? ... time to say again: welcome to caldari online
and here i thought it was Gallente online.
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Danjira Ryuujin
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.11.02 18:16:00 -
[49]
I've been focused on ewar speciality since I started a year ago. I was finally getting useful when ECM was nerfed. I stuck with it, and it looks like its paid off big! Go meeeeeeee!
Amarr - Annoying the Eve Community since 2005 |
Ulstan
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.11.02 18:40:00 -
[50]
Quote: A scorpion can already perma jam a BS and a blackbird ... well it can also, so why boost em ?
How often have you perma jammed a battleship with your blackbird? Especially now that it's chance based, I just don't see that working out too well. How many failed jamming cycles do you think a blackbird can stand up to a battleships firepower? 1? 2?
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Lucas Goran
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Posted - 2007.11.02 18:55:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Ulstan
Quote: A scorpion can already perma jam a BS and a blackbird ... well it can also, so why boost em ?
How often have you perma jammed a battleship with your blackbird? Especially now that it's chance based, I just don't see that working out too well. How many failed jamming cycles do you think a blackbird can stand up to a battleships firepower? 1? 2?
Well maybe im alone here but i very rarely have a problem permajamming a single BS in my blackbird or falcon. I confess my ECM skills are above average but anyone who says it is near impossible surely can't fly the ships
However... yay to the boost now i can permajam 3 battleships
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Tacitus Krekt
The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities
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Posted - 2007.11.03 04:12:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Tacitus Krekt on 03/11/2007 04:13:15 In regards to complaints, and I apologize for the metaphor...
1. Fit ECCM. 2. ????? 3. Laugh at rook/falcon/bb/scorp pilot.
Oh NOES! I have to fit a mod to prevent someone from hurting me! ECM is the only CHANCE based component of the game. Your average ECM pilot will have between 5-6 jammers, pending on ship setup and type. If you live in an area where you KNOW hostile ECM pilots live -- counter this! ECCM puts any jamming ship on an already steep slope in respect to besting you.
And a personal question, in regards to the rook/falcon.
Is there any reason to fly a rook anymore - other than the fact that you bring a ship dealing sub-caracal damage? Granted it is a respectable step above that of the falcon in respect to dps, however, isn't survivability as opposed to damage going to be higher on your list whilst jamming?
Both ships get 7 medium slots. The rook gets 2 lows, whereas the falcon gets 3. Furthermore -- the falcon can fit and warp with the T2 cloak (yes you should know that, but I'm just making obvious comparisons here).
I just don't see the need for wanting to fly a rook any more. Maybe a ROF bonus as opposed to +kinetic? Since jamming strength is going to be on par between the two, make the damage upgrade (being the ONLY reason for flying the ship) worth losing 1 low and the ability to warp cloaked. Do we add fitting? 8 meds / 2 low on rook, 7 meds 3 low on falcon?
Don't get me wrong - I love my rook. I've only ever flown it because I'm a dedicated jammer. I now see myself moving over to the falcon, taking advantage of 1 additional low and a T2 cloak. My job isn't damage -- it's jamming.
But hey -- I'm looking forward to this, don't get me wrong. 3m cruiser with 75% jamming strength bonus? Makes the BB an even more awesome ship when I don't want to fly the recons.
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Arana Tellen
Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.11.03 04:32:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Spartan dax
Originally by: joshmorris ECM is gonna get spammed and now the rook will be able to shut down about 5 bs ...
Oh for crying out loud, the Rook can't do that today and the Rook isn't getting a boost either so quit your unfounded whining.
A Rook can solidly shut down 2 BS during a fight, add a third one and you're gonna start missing cycles. Add a fourth and those missed jams will get you killed or force you to jump out faster than you'd like. (as a Rook pilot that is.) Shutting down 5 BS's.... Not gonna happen.
The arazu/lachesis can now lock down one..... If its lucky and not a long range battleship like the rokh, or a fast battleship (any battleship with a MWD).....
Lets see I could either train sensor damping to V and get a little boost to a pathetic sensor damp amount, or I could train caldari cruiser V in pretty much the same time..... I cant imagine which I will go for. ---------------------------------
Core 2 Duo E4300 1.8ghz @ 3ghz |
Atsuko Ratu
Caldari VSP Corp.
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Posted - 2007.11.03 04:38:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Spartan dax Hrrrmmm. No point in flying a Rook anymore apparantly, Falcon all the way.
This is an unneeded boost to ECM IMO and I fly these ships all the time. What CCP should be doing is getting rid of the SDA spammage in the low slots by turning it into a sligthly more powerfull DCU like module (ie you can only fit one). That would give us similar ECM strength as on TQ today and be a boost to the ships, not ECM.
Ok, the Scorpion could use some lovin but the rest is just over the top. The Falcon should have its (10%) ECM strength bonus switched to the cruiser skill so you'd start out with the same Jamming strength as the Blackbird.
Hint: the Rook can actually fight.
Also, an increase in strength means you can choose not to put those lowslot mods on, or as much, and you will still get similiar strength if not better. Got level 4 recon? Take two SDA's off and put some nano mods on, and you will have the same strength as before.
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Atsuko Ratu
Caldari VSP Corp.
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Posted - 2007.11.03 04:39:00 -
[55]
Originally by: joshmorris ECM is gonna get spammed and now the rook will be able to shut down about 5 bs ... At least with sensor damps you could get in range, with ecm you can't counter if u have 1 or 2 ECCM , Is this another nerf for amarr ? (no mids)
The rook is not getting an increase aside from an extra lowslot if I'm correct, and that's really not that big of a deal. I liked my highslot
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Suprox
Epic.
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Posted - 2007.11.03 05:16:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Suprox on 03/11/2007 05:16:53
Originally by: Tacitus Krekt Do we add fitting for the rook? Give it the same 3 lows as the falcon?
Rook now has 3 lows on test server. I was going to buy a rook, but looking at this change, I am going to keep flying my falcon.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2007.11.03 05:18:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Tacitus Krekt Edited by: Tacitus Krekt on 03/11/2007 04:17:28 Edited by: Tacitus Krekt on 03/11/2007 04:13:15 In regards to complaints, and I apologize for the metaphor...
1. Fit ECCM. 2. ????? 3. Laugh at rook/falcon/bb/scorp pilot.
Oh NOES! I have to fit a mod to prevent someone from hurting me! ECM is the only CHANCE based component of the game. Your average ECM pilot will have between 5-6 jammers, pending on ship setup and type. If you live in an area where you KNOW hostile ECM pilots live -- counter this! ECCM puts any jamming ship on an already steep slope in respect to besting you.
And a personal question, in regards to the rook/falcon.
Is there any reason to fly a rook anymore - other than the fact that you bring a ship dealing sub-caracal damage? Granted it is a respectable step above that of the falcon in respect to dps, however, isn't survivability as opposed to damage going to be higher on your list whilst jamming?
Both ships get 7 medium slots. The rook gets 2 lows, whereas the falcon gets 3. Furthermore -- the falcon can fit and warp with the T2 cloak (yes you should know that, but I'm just making obvious comparisons here).
I just don't see the need for wanting to fly a rook any more. Maybe a ROF bonus as opposed to +kinetic? Since jamming strength is going to be on par between the two, make the damage upgrade (being the ONLY reason for flying the ship) worth losing 1 low and the ability to warp cloaked. Do we add fitting for the rook? Give it the same 3 lows as the falcon?
Don't get me wrong - I love my rook. I've only ever flown it because I'm a dedicated jammer. I now see myself moving over to the falcon, taking advantage of 1 additional low and a T2 cloak. My job isn't damage -- it's jamming.
But hey -- I'm looking forward to this, don't get me wrong. 3m cruiser with 75% jamming strength bonus? Makes the BB an even more awesome ship when I don't want to fly the recons.
One ECCM isn't enough. Fail more plx.
Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I |
Spartan dax
High4Life SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.03 08:33:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Atsuko Ratu
Also, an increase in strength means you can choose not to put those lowslot mods on, or as much, and you will still get similiar strength
I suppose that's pretty much CCP's thinking, increase the ECM strength bonus so that the ECM ships can free up a few precious low slots. Well that's obviously not gonna happen to any larger extent.
The SDA's should either be removed completely from the game or turned into a DCU kind of module with the ECM modules being sligthly buffed. That would be the biggest buff to the ships and not a buff to ECM. This proposed change on sisi will only serve to make ECM ships even more primary.
I'll be honest and say that I like the current strenght on most of the ships, just a slight adjusting of where the bonuses are placed and I'd be happy as Larry. It's not an I win button like some people seem to think and it won't be after all these crazy bonus changes comes in, if they come in. But, it won't actually make the ships better, it'll keep them a one trick pony and not really opening them up to any kind of outside the box thinking, a shame really.
For instance a HAM fitted Rook would be awesome to try out but isn't really a viable setup thanks to the SDA's in the lows. And I'm missing enough cycles as it is to dare try and take one off. Buff the ships, keep ECM the way it is!
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Laboratus
Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen
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Posted - 2007.11.03 10:23:00 -
[59]
\o/ Maybe we will start to see more ECM ships out there. ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats |
William DeMeo
Gallente the united
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Posted - 2007.11.03 11:10:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Ess Erbe
Originally by: Denga Vulture ah well .. and why we nerf the arazu with its sensor damps ??? ... time to say again: welcome to caldari online
You have got to be kidding me.
While I'm personally not to happy with all aspects of the sensor dampener readjustments, they were incredibly powerful and didn't work off of the chance based system that ECM jammers do.
3 damps could neutralize any battlecruiser's offensive capability. A full-skilled Rook with the right racial jammer didn't have a 100% chance of doing that.
No but the difference is the battlecruiser pilot could just microwarpdrive within range and then pwn the person doing the dampening. Yarr |
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