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LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.03 11:28:00 - [61] Edited by: LUKEC on 03/11/2007 11:28:51 Edited by: LUKEC on 03/11/2007 11:27:55 Originally by: William DeMeo Originally by: Ess Erbe Originally by: Denga Vulture ah well .. and why we nerf the arazu with its sensor damps ??? ... time to say again: welcome to caldari online You have got to be kidding me. While I'm personally not to happy with all aspects of the sensor dampener readjustments, they were incredibly powerful and didn't work off of the chance based system that ECM jammers do. 3 damps could neutralize any battlecruiser's offensive capability. A full-skilled Rook with the right racial jammer didn't have a 100% chance of doing that. No but the difference is the battlecruiser pilot could just microwarpdrive within range and then pwn the person doing the dampening. Or get webbed and then kept at range(7-8km) while dying slowly to 250dps from arazu? The silly thing is caldari cruiser class, old stuff that didn't require drones. Now rook with faction ammo and 5x hml II (unable to fit ham without gimping other stuff) does almighty 175dps (kin/otherwise less) and no tricks in the sleeve. That's like 50dps more than gallente/minmatar recons do with drones only. Then you can't fit dmg mods thanks to silly distortion amps and not much shield buffer(1 lse II with rig for pg reduction) due to pg/slot limits. Then you have no tricks in the sleeve like other recons(nanos mostly) and your weapons don't work at your "optimal" range. You can jam at 150 with reasonable skills, you can shoot at 60 :P Oh and rook isn't getting any better really with new patch (3. amp doesn't do much, you still can't armor tank and 1 bcu will improve dps for 30. win? i don't think so)
KTOZ Caldari Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.03 12:58:00 - [62] i didnt read all the post in here so excuse me if i mised something important or my question is already answeared somewhere but what are the rooks for by now then, if falcons will have more ecm str ( if u fit 3 signal dist amp ), and they are able to cloack also :) i m ecm pilot my self and told how ridiculus was the falcon nerf (provided by ecm mods nerf a while ago) long while ago. but this time wont they overpower the rooks on jamming + they can cloack?? Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Kreul Intentions ([email protected])
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2007.11.03 15:10:00 - [63] RoF bonus instead of kinetic, or 25m drone bay on the Rook please
Magazaki	Posted - 2007.11.03 15:56:00 - [64] Originally by: KTOZ i didnt read all the post in here so excuse me if i mised something important or my question is already answeared somewhere but what are the rooks for by now then, if falcons will have more ecm str ( if u fit 3 signal dist amp ), and they are able to cloack also :) i m ecm pilot my self and told how ridiculus was the falcon nerf (provided by ecm mods nerf a while ago) long while ago. but this time wont they overpower the rooks on jamming + they can cloack?? The rook gets a 3rd low as well, so now their only difference is the dmg potential, and the small difference between combat and force recon resists... -----sig----- Originally by: Kaemonn:Signature Originally by: kieron: off duty You dont have to swallow! Win...
Setana Manoro Gallente Firefly Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.03 16:06:00 - [65] Edited by: Setana Manoro on 03/11/2007 16:10:18 Originally by: Volscani Edited by: Volscani on 02/11/2007 10:41:34 Edited by: Volscani on 02/11/2007 09:32:01 edited no longer a rumor I just heard a rumor(it was confirmed) that on sisi the scorpion, blackbird, and falcon now receive a 20% ecm jam bonus. link below provides Information. Flame away Falcon is already 100 m in jita and rens. :( Failgeddon wrecks CCP for XXX annoyed customers !
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.11.03 21:19:00 - [66] Originally by: Setana Manoro Falcon is already 100 m in jita and rens. :( M-m-m-mmmmonster Invention Profit (for those wo'd do it) ! _ 1\|2\|3
Hugh Ruka Caldari Free Traders Free Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.03 21:47:00 - [67] Originally by: Setana Manoro Edited by: Setana Manoro on 03/11/2007 16:10:18 Originally by: Volscani Edited by: Volscani on 02/11/2007 10:41:34 Edited by: Volscani on 02/11/2007 09:32:01 edited no longer a rumor I just heard a rumor(it was confirmed) that on sisi the scorpion, blackbird, and falcon now receive a 20% ecm jam bonus. link below provides Information. Flame away Falcon is already 100 m in jita and rens. :( ** I should have bought more than one ... Originally by:** Aravel Thon Originally by: Nith Batoxxx Hi my alt just leanred to fly the ferox............... I am so so terribly sorry...
Daelin Blackleaf Aliastra	Posted - 2007.11.03 23:01:00 - [68] Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 03/11/2007 23:02:03 Somebody think of the poor Minmatar!
Veryez	Posted - 2007.11.04 17:04:00 - [69] Christmas came early this year. I am SO SICK of fitting RSD's on a Scorpion. Since the day it came out I said ECM ships got nerfed too much, the ECM nerf was fine, but the ship nerf was too much. Caldari Battleship 5, Signal Dispersion 5 and I get told - bring a rohk. Maybe I'll get to fly my favorite ship again.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.11.05 00:17:00 - [70] IMO the Scorpion needed this. Being less good at jamming than the Rook, mean the Scorp was just plain obselete. As for the others? I'm not convinced they need boosting. Blackbirds are/were the 'cheap ECM cruiser'. Falcons are cloakers that can jam. Rooks were mobile jamming platforms. (because lets face it, no one flew them for their awesome caracal grade DPS). All had their niche. And whilst we're at it, the Kitsune needs that jammer bonus moved to EAS not frigate. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? GMP and TNP
Byzan Zwyth Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.11.05 00:31:00 - [71] seems like a bit much, dont know when devs from any game will learn not to nerf/boost stuff too much. crazy, ---------------------- Rank: Tech 1 and a 1/2 cannon fodder Pointless forum slowing bandwidth hogging signature pic inc?
Cyan Nuevo Dudes In Crazy Killing Ships	Posted - 2007.11.05 02:03:00 - [72] OK, an ECM boost is good in general, but 20% for the Falcon? Way too much. It's a friggin' force recon. --- Proud Amarr pilot.
Adam Weishaupt Minmatar Pyrrhus Sicarii The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.05 03:03:00 - [73] Yeah, but what's the point of flying the Rook in fleets now? Is there one? The Falcon is infinitely more useful with its ability to act as scout and cyno ship, AND high-powered ECM boat. Who cares about damage? Granted, I sometimes choose to fly the Huginn when I could be in a Rapier, but ECM ships always get primaried over anything else. I don't think it's really a bad change, but I agree with the guy who said that is just a really unfair kick in the gut to the pilgrim. I normally don't like Amarr ships, but once upon a time thought about training for them just for the recons.
Multras Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.05 03:14:00 - [74] All the other races recons had the same Ewar bonuses, why should Caldari's be treated different? Thanks to EVE Art Store for the sig.
Nebuchadnezzar I Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.05 04:21:00 - [75] Originally by: Tacitus Krekt And a personal question, in regards to the rook/falcon. Is there any reason to fly a rook anymore - other than the fact that you bring a ship dealing sub-caracal damage? Granted it is a respectable step above that of the falcon in respect to dps, however, isn't survivability as opposed to damage going to be higher on your list whilst jamming? Both ships get 7 medium slots. The rook gets 2 lows, whereas the falcon gets 3. Furthermore -- the falcon can fit and warp with the T2 cloak (yes you should know that, but I'm just making obvious comparisons here). I just don't see the need for wanting to fly a rook any more. Maybe a ROF bonus as opposed to +kinetic? Since jamming strength is going to be on par between the two, make the damage upgrade (being the ONLY reason for flying the ship) worth losing 1 low and the ability to warp cloaked. Do we add fitting for the rook? Give it the same 3 lows as the falcon? Don't get me wrong - I love my rook. I've only ever flown it because I'm a dedicated jammer. I now see myself moving over to the falcon, taking advantage of 1 additional low and a T2 cloak. My job isn't damage -- it's jamming. Well, the rook is cheaper :)
Theron Gyrow Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.11.05 07:36:00 - [76] Originally by: ElCoCo Why would it need scripts? I think the existance of racial jammers and the low strength of the multis (with pretty high cap use), pretty much covers it. No worries, ECM mods apparently get an overall 40% cap use reduction on test server. Multis will use less cap than racials do now. -- Gradient forum
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2007.11.05 07:47:00 - [77] Originally by: Theron Gyrow Originally by: ElCoCo Why would it need scripts? I think the existance of racial jammers and the low strength of the multis (with pretty high cap use), pretty much covers it. No worries, ECM mods apparently get an overall 40% cap use reduction on test server. Multis will use less cap than racials do now. Holy christ. TQ: 96 cap activation cost for a Hypnos multispec. On Sisi: 57 cap. Just f'ing great. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I
Incantare Caldari Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.11.05 07:51:00 - [78] Properly set up ECM ships have no tank, a small buffer at most. Apart from the scorp they have no drone bay. ECM is chance based and when you add to that no tank it leads to a constant risk of sudden death. Of course there are advantages too (range, near total shutdown...) but the drawbacks are major. When your dampening boats stop fitting armor tanks and fit low slot strength mods instead, give up their drone bays and damps become chance based you'll have the right to complain about them being less effective. The current situation is backwards, and is being corrected.
Leya Marcsson	Posted - 2007.11.05 08:09:00 - [79] Originally by: Incantare Properly set up ECM ships have no tank, a small buffer at most. Exact that is the reason dedicated ECM boots need that Bonus.
Mary Makepeace Caldari Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.11.05 10:09:00 - [80] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Theron Gyrow Originally by: ElCoCo Why would it need scripts? I think the existance of racial jammers and the low strength of the multis (with pretty high cap use), pretty much covers it. No worries, ECM mods apparently get an overall 40% cap use reduction on test server. Multis will use less cap than racials do now. Holy christ. TQ: 96 cap activation cost for a Hypnos multispec. On Sisi: 57 cap. Just f'ing great. that is really going to far, especially with the number of ships that have cap reduction bonuses. any fleet should now have about 20% BBs with the idiot fit of multies.
Multras Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.05 10:43:00 - [81] Who honestly uses multis? "Never fear I got a 15-20% chance to jam that BS hope it doesnt fail guys!" Thanks to EVE Art Store for the sig.
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.11.05 10:47:00 - [82] Edited by: welsh wizard on 05/11/2007 10:50:30 Should be: Scorpion: 20% ECM strength, lower mass Blackbird: lower mass Falcon 15% ECM strength, +1 turret/missile hardpoint, lower mass Rook: lower mass, kinetic damage bonus switched to all types Not much point in the Rook with the Falcon changes. You don't really use the Rook for damage anyway... Also the Pilgrim needs its nos/neut range bonus increased by about 50% to bring it closer to the Curse. [Balance] The Caldari problem.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.11.05 10:49:00 - [83] Originally by: Multras Edited by: Multras on 05/11/2007 10:46:56 Who honestly uses multis? On any dedicated jamming ship you use racials. They have longer range, use less CPU, and less cap, although cap isnt really an issue. It's better odds than an 'off' racial, especially if you're looking at a small number of opponents (e.g. so there's still fairly good chances that you won't get 1 jammer per ship of the right race). Most reason I use racials is range. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? GMP and TNP
Hugh Ruka Caldari Free Traders Free Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.05 11:20:00 - [84] Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 05/11/2007 10:50:30 Should be: Scorpion: 20% ECM strength, lower mass Blackbird: lower mass Falcon 15% ECM strength, +1 turret/missile hardpoint, lower mass Rook: lower mass, kinetic damage bonus switched to all types Not much point in the Rook with the Falcon changes. You don't really use the Rook for damage anyway... Also the Pilgrim needs its nos/neut range bonus increased by about 50% to bring it closer to the Curse. hmm agreed :-) tho the +1 hardpoint on the falcon will do nothing. I'd like a probe launcher CPU bonus instead. Originally by: Aravel Thon Originally by: Nith Batoxxx Hi my alt just leanred to fly the ferox............... I am so so terribly sorry...
Ancy Denaries Caldari Isseras Manufacture	Posted - 2007.11.05 11:44:00 - [85] Originally by: MrRookie I like that they changed the cap use on the frigs aswell. 10% - 15% reduction. Might even make the griffin a viable cheap EW frig It already is. I use it daily :P (and loose a few too, I must admit :D)
Cyan Nuevo Dudes In Crazy Killing Ships	Posted - 2007.11.06 20:12:00 - [86] Originally by: welsh wizard Scorpion: 20% ECM strength, lower mass Blackbird: lower mass Falcon 15% ECM strength, +1 turret/missile hardpoint, lower mass Rook: lower mass, kinetic damage bonus switched to all types Not much point in the Rook with the Falcon changes. You don't really use the Rook for damage anyway... Agreed. "Not much point in the Rook" is an understatement. --- Proud Amarr pilot.
Neo Rainhart Caldari Leela's Lamas	Posted - 2007.11.06 20:25:00 - [87] This will make the caldari recons same as amarr recons were before nosnerf..solopwnmobiles..now before nerfing them back to less jam strenght, just boost all other recons to the same level and everyone is happy
Cyan Nuevo Dudes In Crazy Killing Ships	Posted - 2007.11.06 20:35:00 - [88] No, they won't be solo pwnmobiles because only the Pilgrim and the Curse can (could?) actually kill anything since nosferatu and neutralizers can break tanks. The Falcon will just be overpowered, overused, and generally a big pain. --- Proud Amarr pilot.
J Valkor Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.11.06 20:47:00 - [89] Originally by: Cyan Nuevo No, they won't be solo pwnmobiles because only the Pilgrim and the Curse can (could?) actually kill anything since nosferatu and neutralizers can break tanks. The Falcon will just be overpowered, overused, and generally a big pain. Yes, but not solo. Which is the important bit.
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.11.06 21:33:00 - [90] No drones, no nos, no solopwn. [Balance] The Caldari problem.

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