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Volscani
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Posted - 2007.11.02 09:30:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Volscani on 02/11/2007 09:32:01
I just heard a rumor that on sisi the scorpion and falcon now receive a 20% ecm jam bonus.
I don't have access to the test server at the moment if anyone could confirm that, it would be very helpful.
If the rumor is false sorry for the thread.(I didn't see anything about this on the last 3 pages so I thought it might be thread worthy if true)
Flame away |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.11.02 09:37:00 -
[2]
Linkage
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1|2|3 |
Volscani
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Posted - 2007.11.02 09:39:00 -
[3]
Thank you very much, and if there was already a post on this I apologize.
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Homo Gestalt
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Posted - 2007.11.02 09:41:00 -
[4]
That's not even what he was asking for, Akita. Stupid... No the Curse is not getting buffed.
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Carniflex
Caldari
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.11.02 09:44:00 -
[5]
Oooooh shiny. We just might start seeing ECCM's in some setups again.
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Volscani
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Posted - 2007.11.02 09:46:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Volscani on 02/11/2007 09:47:49
If the changes stay a ecm range rigged falcon with a covert ops cloak could be a very effective fleet ship. Also maybe a way to balance the new marauders as solo ships?
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.11.02 09:48:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Carniflex
Oooooh shiny. We just might start seeing ECCM's in some setups again.
Actually, our enemies already tend to fit ECCM, due to some high-skill ECM pilots we have. I suspect this change will make them very happy (our pilots that is, not our enemies  ).
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.11.02 10:00:00 -
[8]
Epic win by CCP.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.11.02 10:05:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Homo Gestalt
That's not even what he was asking for, Akita.
Yes it is.
_
1|2|3 |
Mary Makepeace
Caldari
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.11.02 10:12:00 -
[10]
this is the best news I have heard, much needed since the ECM nerf.
is there any indication that ECM will need scripts?
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Cailais
Amarr
VITOC
Fang Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.02 10:23:00 -
[11]
Great. What about the Pilgrim then? It got stuffed by the nos nerf: can we have a boost aswell??
C.
Piratise Low Sec! or Eve on Hard Mode (idea) |
ElCoCo
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.02 10:27:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Mary Makepeace
this is the best news I have heard, much needed since the ECM nerf.
is there any indication that ECM will need scripts?
Why would it need scripts? I think the existance of racial jammers and the low strength of the multis (with pretty high cap use), pretty much covers it.
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Hugh Ruka
Caldari
Free Traders
Free Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.11.02 10:33:00 -
[13]
yes ... YES ... BLOODY HELL YYYEEEEEEAAAAHHHH !!!!
finaly I can start using the ECM ships again at full force ... thank yuou CCP, please let this make it onto TQ !!!
Originally by: Aravel Thon
Originally by: Nith Batoxxx
Hi my alt just leanred to fly the ferox...............
I am so so terribly sorry...
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.11.02 10:37:00 -
[14]
Aye racial jammers are basically the scripted version of ECM - hugely boost one attribute, nerf all others. That, and thye have better range, better faloff, easier fitting and less cap use 
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Denga Vulture
The X-Trading Company
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2007.11.02 10:48:00 -
[15]
ah well .. and why we nerf the arazu with its sensor damps ??? ... time to say again: welcome to caldari online
- All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me
- Pure drone user... give us a mini carrier and faction Dominix please |
Ess Erbe
State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.11.02 10:57:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Denga Vulture
ah well .. and why we nerf the arazu with its sensor damps ??? ... time to say again: welcome to caldari online
You have got to be kidding me.
While I'm personally not to happy with all aspects of the sensor dampener readjustments, they were incredibly powerful and didn't work off of the chance based system that ECM jammers do.
3 damps could neutralize any battlecruiser's offensive capability. A full-skilled Rook with the right racial jammer didn't have a 100% chance of doing that.
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Leya Marcsson
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Posted - 2007.11.02 11:02:00 -
[17]
YAY!
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Gypsio III
Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2007.11.02 11:08:00 -
[18]
Personally, I think this makes the Blackbird hilariously overpowered, for a 4 mill cruiser...
...what am I saying? Boost away, CCP! 
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Remarka
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Posted - 2007.11.02 11:31:00 -
[19]
I think when th scripts actually hits ECM (with a force of slegehummer to the head) it will be like current damps/TD and other. 50% nerf to ECM strengh and optimal and scripts that change strengh into optimal and vice versa. Here you get strong (like now) close range ECM "hello primary, here is the focus for you" or long range (like now) "forget him, he can't jamm even our inties from there".
I wouldn't belive SiSi right now. I better wait for Rev3 going live and then start celebrating... or looking around.
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Delichon
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.11.02 11:42:00 -
[20]
I think BB just got a bit overpowered. It was a great "general annoyance" ship. Now it will become a general "must have" in small gangs. And yes - ECCM all the way for the enemies.
Scorp got what it deserved - with 10% ECM strenght bonus it was only marginally better than BB (2 more mids, some buffer tank that melted in seconds anyway - good, but nothing fancy) Now Scorp gets actually better than BB(at cruiser 5) on Caldary BS 4 - and would shine at Caldary BS 5. It might even become... gulp... a good soloship
Falcon - again, something this ship longed for. Because if soloing Arazu is good for you, soloing Huggin is good for you, even Ammar whine "Why can't my Curse solo!!!" - guess what, soloing Falcon is a death sentence. You can only fit 2 launchers and you have 0 drone capacity(so your DPS almost 0), miss 1 ECM cycle - and you need to warp out.
Widow... I have to take back my words. Widow may become a soloECMpwnmobile. Not that I like this idea (kind of used to being "Caldari - bring a corp" guy), but with 20% per level Widow may have enough ECM tank to effectively solo.
These all observations are my humble oppinion and they are only viable if these changes hit TQ.
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Spartan dax
High4Life
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.02 11:47:00 -
[21]
Hrrrmmm. No point in flying a Rook anymore apparantly, Falcon all the way.
This is an unneeded boost to ECM IMO and I fly these ships all the time. What CCP should be doing is getting rid of the SDA spammage in the low slots by turning it into a sligthly more powerfull DCU like module (ie you can only fit one). That would give us similar ECM strength as on TQ today and be a boost to the ships, not ECM.
Ok, the Scorpion could use some lovin but the rest is just over the top. The Falcon should have its (10%) ECM strength bonus switched to the cruiser skill so you'd start out with the same Jamming strength as the Blackbird.
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M00dy
Killed In Action
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Posted - 2007.11.02 11:59:00 -
[22]
It was fine before, not needed.
RATatatatata
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Mary Makepeace
Caldari
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.11.02 12:39:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Spartan dax
Hrrrmmm. No point in flying a Rook anymore apparantly, Falcon all the way.
This is an unneeded boost to ECM IMO and I fly these ships all the time. What CCP should be doing is getting rid of the SDA spammage in the low slots by turning it into a sligthly more powerfull DCU like module (ie you can only fit one). That would give us similar ECM strength as on TQ today and be a boost to the ships, not ECM.
Ok, the Scorpion could use some lovin but the rest is just over the top. The Falcon should have its (10%) ECM strength bonus switched to the cruiser skill so you'd start out with the same Jamming strength as the Blackbird.
this sounds like a much better balance.
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Phaedruss
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Posted - 2007.11.02 12:57:00 -
[24]
This is great news. The Falcon deserved a buff.
But doesn't it seem very odd? The Falcon gets nerfed into poor second cousin status, and they realize their blunder by giving it something back. But, in the same patch they decide to finally and absolutely relegate the Pilgrim to the trash heap by kicking it in the guts a second time, and take a big chunk of effectiveness off the Arazu/Lachesis.
Do they have multiple nerfing teams assigned to different ships that just never communicate with each other? The fact that they've decided the Falcon really does need a bit of a buff after the nerf should demonstrate to everyone that no, they really don't know what they're doing.
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.11.02 13:00:00 -
[25]
Originally by: M00dy
It was fine before, not needed.
I take it you don't fly them?
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.11.02 13:10:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 02/11/2007 13:10:19
This is a very nice boost for lower-skilled ECM pilots. At the moment ECM is already good, even in current Scorps, if you have very high ECM skills.
This lowers the bar a bit, and makes it more worthwhile for less skilled pilots to step into a BB or Scorp. This is good, imho.
And boosting the Falcon to be on par with the Rook only makes sense.
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Oron
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Posted - 2007.11.02 13:23:00 -
[27]
Yea, now the Falcon have the Cloak and the Rook the damage as uniq ability - thats nice. Kitsune get a 20% capa bonus! Wow, guess that will be the first frig really be used for in its ECM role.
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demonfurbie
Minmatar
Covert Nexus
Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium
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Posted - 2007.11.02 14:09:00 -
[28]
good the scorp needed a change imo cause you where better off fitting damps over ecm in some situations. now we will see more of them in combat. then it wont be get a rohk or a raven.
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Wrayeth
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.11.02 14:23:00 -
[29]
Wow. I may just undock my scorp, for once. And the falcon I've been deriding for some time as being incapable of jamming heavier ships may actually be something for me to buy, now. And the Widow getting a 20% jam strength bonus instead of 10% is uber, too. I think I may actually start flying ECM boats again.
-Wrayeth
n00b Extraordinaire
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" |
Ulstan
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.11.02 14:33:00 -
[30]
I like these changes, especially for the scorpion and falcon.
Regarding sensor dampeners, I remember CCP nerfing them about 3 years ago because you only needed about two of them to completley shut down any ship. They're still 'better' than ECM in that they work all the time, against any ship.
As far as scripts for ECM goes, they pretty much already come prescripted, given the racial and multi spectral versions.
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joshmorris
Ravenous Inc.
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.11.02 14:47:00 -
[31]
ECM is gonna get spammed and now the rook will be able to shut down about 5 bs ...
At least with sensor damps you could get in range, with ecm you can't counter if u have 1 or 2 ECCM , Is this another nerf for amarr ? (no mids)
Uber idea solves all !! |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.11.02 14:50:00 -
[32]
Originally by: joshmorris
ECM is gonna get spammed and now the rook will be able to shut down about 5 bs ...
At least with sensor damps you could get in range, with ecm you can't counter if u have 1 or 2 ECCM , Is this another nerf for amarr ? (no mids)
Not to mention it'll die to the first person to get a flight of medium or heavy drones on it..it's made of tinfoil decorated with chocolate pudding
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joshmorris
Ravenous Inc.
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.11.02 14:52:00 -
[33]
Edited by: joshmorris on 02/11/2007 14:54:15
It can warp out and back in ... remember,
1: it should be about 80+ k away
2: Its got anything jammed that will be disrupting it.
3: If it see's a dictor it will be out asap b4 it gets to it.
I know all the probs they have its just that should 1 ship be able to shut down so many ?
Edit- I mean its fine as it is now, its just that every1 is moaning because it doesn't wtfpwn its balanced. BUT if these changes happen it will wtfpwn (and every1 will fly 1) and every1 will be asking for a nerf....
Uber idea solves all !! |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2007.11.02 14:55:00 -
[34]
I don't even think I can fit enough ECCM on my BSs to keep from being jammed. Damps are pretty much ruined- almost 30% reduction per damp in lock range damp effectiveness (after installing scripts). This means needing 3x damps to do the work of 2x previously. It's a total mess.
I have plenty of max skilled Rook/Scorp pilots in my crew. This change is just going to make ECCM come back like the plague it was. Right now it's fine. Max skilled pilots can jam anything they want, even with ECCM installed in their targets.
With the drone nerf, bleh. Drones will die much too quickly to counter any ECM.
Bellum Eternus
[Vid] L E G E N D A R Y
[Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I |
joshmorris
Ravenous Inc.
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.11.02 14:57:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
I don't even think I can fit enough ECCM on my BSs to keep from being jammed. Damps are pretty much ruined- almost 30% reduction per damp in lock range damp effectiveness (after installing scripts). This means needing 3x damps to do the work of 2x previously. It's a total mess.
I have plenty of max skilled Rook/Scorp pilots in my crew. This change is just going to make ECCM come back like the plague it was. Right now it's fine. Max skilled pilots can jam anything they want, even with ECCM installed in their targets.
With the drone nerf, bleh. Drones will die much too quickly to counter any ECM.
Thats what i'm trying to say, he just put it in a much better way. QFT !!!!!!!!!!
Uber idea solves all !! |
The Lamentress
Glenn Danzig's Mother
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Posted - 2007.11.02 15:12:00 -
[36]
Ooooh the nice 
Originally by: Monsier Aragorn
We come from CAOD to watch things here and quite frankly, no wonder why you folks don't dare to post there
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Galactic Magi
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Posted - 2007.11.02 16:12:00 -
[37]
Originally by: joshmorris
ECM is gonna get spammed and now the rook will be able to shut down about 5 bs ...
At least with sensor damps you could get in range, with ecm you can't counter if u have 1 or 2 ECCM , Is this another nerf for amarr ? (no mids)
You even give whiners a bad name. Read before posing next time maybe. Rook didnt get changed. It will still be the same ship it is now. Falcon bonus got boosted so now it will be similer as rook.
Only thing that looks good is the BB and Scorp, bb will be nice for newcomers in ew pvp. And pilot with bs 5 can do some serious EW with the scorp. This one was much needed considering thats the only thing this ship can do.
Dont know much about widow to comment but, looks a bit overpowered.
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Spartan dax
High4Life
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.02 16:13:00 -
[38]
Originally by: joshmorris
ECM is gonna get spammed and now the rook will be able to shut down about 5 bs ...
Oh for crying out loud, the Rook can't do that today and the Rook isn't getting a boost either so quit your unfounded whining.
A Rook can solidly shut down 2 BS during a fight, add a third one and you're gonna start missing cycles. Add a fourth and those missed jams will get you killed or force you to jump out faster than you'd like. (as a Rook pilot that is.) Shutting down 5 BS's.... Not gonna happen.
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Lagerstars
Caldari
Independent Operations
Amen Anera
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Posted - 2007.11.02 16:15:00 -
[39]
Will def be using a Falcon more often if these changes make it on to TQ
It will mean it could actually be a useful ship!
-----------------------------------------
- This space intentionally left blank - |
Incantare
Caldari
Kernel of War
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.11.02 16:21:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Sokratesz
Epic win by CCP.
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FOFOFOF
CRAPSTORM
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Posted - 2007.11.02 16:22:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Spartan dax
Oh for crying out loud, the Rook can't do that today and the Rook isn't getting a boost either so quit your unfounded whining.
He got a point, the best ecm strengh bonus isnt getting anything better, what they done was to improve the other ships and get more usability out of they intended roles.
Gallente crap, plz, move along, this isnt your official drone/damp whine thread.
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Hozac
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Posted - 2007.11.02 17:04:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Hozac on 02/11/2007 17:05:57
So long dampfest.
Hello ecmfest.
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ElCoCo
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.02 17:10:00 -
[43]
Edited by: ElCoCo on 02/11/2007 17:10:15
Falcon/widow is too much.... 15% would be enough.
Other than that, I welcome the changes.
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Leya Marcsson
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Posted - 2007.11.02 17:21:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Hozac
Hello ecmfest.
About time! Wasting all mid slots and 3 low slots on one purpose should give you a greater change to be good at it than the loosy slightly 50%-60% the BB/Scroption currently have at maxed skill! Both ships really need that boost!
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SkyEstaLimit
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Posted - 2007.11.02 17:29:00 -
[45]
I don't see the need for this boost. A scorpion can already perma jam a BS and a blackbird ... well it can also, so why boost em ?
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Wannabehero
Caldari
Absolutely No Return
The Red Skull
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Posted - 2007.11.02 18:02:00 -
[46]
This is fantastic News!
When I first started out in this game, I began training up in Caldari and ECM because I liked the idea of being an EW pilot. A couple of battles and several Blackbirds later I found this to be a losing proposition.
Now it is time to finish up that Caldari Recon training and dust off the ol' Scorpion.
Thank you CCP for the much need ECM rebalance.
--
Don't harsh my mellow |
FOFOFOF
CRAPSTORM
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Posted - 2007.11.02 18:07:00 -
[47]
Originally by: SkyEstaLimit
I don't see the need for this boost. A scorpion can already perma jam a BS and a blackbird ... well it can also, so why boost em ?
Im sorry, but have you done that before? permajam a BS in a BB?
Sounds like you dont have a clue or cant see the difference between a BB and a Rook, both are blacks, right...
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dor amwar
Foundation
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.11.02 18:08:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Denga Vulture
ah well .. and why we nerf the arazu with its sensor damps ??? ... time to say again: welcome to caldari online
and here i thought it was Gallente online.
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Danjira Ryuujin
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.11.02 18:16:00 -
[49]
I've been focused on ewar speciality since I started a year ago. I was finally getting useful when ECM was nerfed. I stuck with it, and it looks like its paid off big! Go meeeeeeee!
Amarr - Annoying the Eve Community since 2005 |
Ulstan
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.11.02 18:40:00 -
[50]
Quote:
A scorpion can already perma jam a BS and a blackbird ... well it can also, so why boost em ?
How often have you perma jammed a battleship with your blackbird? Especially now that it's chance based, I just don't see that working out too well. How many failed jamming cycles do you think a blackbird can stand up to a battleships firepower? 1? 2?
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Lucas Goran
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Posted - 2007.11.02 18:55:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Ulstan
Quote:
A scorpion can already perma jam a BS and a blackbird ... well it can also, so why boost em ?
How often have you perma jammed a battleship with your blackbird? Especially now that it's chance based, I just don't see that working out too well. How many failed jamming cycles do you think a blackbird can stand up to a battleships firepower? 1? 2?
Well maybe im alone here but i very rarely have a problem permajamming a single BS in my blackbird or falcon. I confess my ECM skills are above average but anyone who says it is near impossible surely can't fly the ships 
However... yay to the boost  now i can permajam 3 battleships
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Tacitus Krekt
The Phoenix Rising
FreeFall Securities
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Posted - 2007.11.03 04:12:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Tacitus Krekt on 03/11/2007 04:13:15
In regards to complaints, and I apologize for the metaphor...
1. Fit ECCM.
2. ?????
3. Laugh at rook/falcon/bb/scorp pilot.
Oh NOES! I have to fit a mod to prevent someone from hurting me! ECM is the only CHANCE based component of the game. Your average ECM pilot will have between 5-6 jammers, pending on ship setup and type. If you live in an area where you KNOW hostile ECM pilots live -- counter this! ECCM puts any jamming ship on an already steep slope in respect to besting you.
And a personal question, in regards to the rook/falcon.
Is there any reason to fly a rook anymore - other than the fact that you bring a ship dealing sub-caracal damage? Granted it is a respectable step above that of the falcon in respect to dps, however, isn't survivability as opposed to damage going to be higher on your list whilst jamming?
Both ships get 7 medium slots. The rook gets 2 lows, whereas the falcon gets 3. Furthermore -- the falcon can fit and warp with the T2 cloak (yes you should know that, but I'm just making obvious comparisons here).
I just don't see the need for wanting to fly a rook any more. Maybe a ROF bonus as opposed to +kinetic? Since jamming strength is going to be on par between the two, make the damage upgrade (being the ONLY reason for flying the ship) worth losing 1 low and the ability to warp cloaked. Do we add fitting? 8 meds / 2 low on rook, 7 meds 3 low on falcon?
Don't get me wrong - I love my rook. I've only ever flown it because I'm a dedicated jammer. I now see myself moving over to the falcon, taking advantage of 1 additional low and a T2 cloak. My job isn't damage -- it's jamming.
But hey -- I'm looking forward to this, don't get me wrong. 3m cruiser with 75% jamming strength bonus? Makes the BB an even more awesome ship when I don't want to fly the recons.
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Arana Tellen
Gallente
The Blackguard Wolves
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.11.03 04:32:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Spartan dax
Originally by: joshmorris
ECM is gonna get spammed and now the rook will be able to shut down about 5 bs ...
Oh for crying out loud, the Rook can't do that today and the Rook isn't getting a boost either so quit your unfounded whining.
A Rook can solidly shut down 2 BS during a fight, add a third one and you're gonna start missing cycles. Add a fourth and those missed jams will get you killed or force you to jump out faster than you'd like. (as a Rook pilot that is.) Shutting down 5 BS's.... Not gonna happen.
The arazu/lachesis can now lock down one..... If its lucky and not a long range battleship like the rokh, or a fast battleship (any battleship with a MWD).....
Lets see I could either train sensor damping to V and get a little boost to a pathetic sensor damp amount, or I could train caldari cruiser V in pretty much the same time..... I cant imagine which I will go for.
---------------------------------
Core 2 Duo E4300 1.8ghz @ 3ghz |
Atsuko Ratu
Caldari
VSP Corp.
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Posted - 2007.11.03 04:38:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Spartan dax
Hrrrmmm. No point in flying a Rook anymore apparantly, Falcon all the way.
This is an unneeded boost to ECM IMO and I fly these ships all the time. What CCP should be doing is getting rid of the SDA spammage in the low slots by turning it into a sligthly more powerfull DCU like module (ie you can only fit one). That would give us similar ECM strength as on TQ today and be a boost to the ships, not ECM.
Ok, the Scorpion could use some lovin but the rest is just over the top. The Falcon should have its (10%) ECM strength bonus switched to the cruiser skill so you'd start out with the same Jamming strength as the Blackbird.
Hint: the Rook can actually fight.
Also, an increase in strength means you can choose not to put those lowslot mods on, or as much, and you will still get similiar strength if not better. Got level 4 recon? Take two SDA's off and put some nano mods on, and you will have the same strength as before.
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Atsuko Ratu
Caldari
VSP Corp.
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Posted - 2007.11.03 04:39:00 -
[55]
Originally by: joshmorris
ECM is gonna get spammed and now the rook will be able to shut down about 5 bs ...
At least with sensor damps you could get in range, with ecm you can't counter if u have 1 or 2 ECCM , Is this another nerf for amarr ? (no mids)
The rook is not getting an increase aside from an extra lowslot if I'm correct, and that's really not that big of a deal. I liked my highslot
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Suprox
Epic.
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Posted - 2007.11.03 05:16:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Suprox on 03/11/2007 05:16:53
Originally by: Tacitus Krekt
Do we add fitting for the rook? Give it the same 3 lows as the falcon?
Rook now has 3 lows on test server. I was going to buy a rook, but looking at this change, I am going to keep flying my falcon.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2007.11.03 05:18:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Tacitus Krekt
Edited by: Tacitus Krekt on 03/11/2007 04:17:28
Edited by: Tacitus Krekt on 03/11/2007 04:13:15
In regards to complaints, and I apologize for the metaphor...
1. Fit ECCM.
2. ?????
3. Laugh at rook/falcon/bb/scorp pilot.
Oh NOES! I have to fit a mod to prevent someone from hurting me! ECM is the only CHANCE based component of the game. Your average ECM pilot will have between 5-6 jammers, pending on ship setup and type. If you live in an area where you KNOW hostile ECM pilots live -- counter this! ECCM puts any jamming ship on an already steep slope in respect to besting you.
And a personal question, in regards to the rook/falcon.
Is there any reason to fly a rook anymore - other than the fact that you bring a ship dealing sub-caracal damage? Granted it is a respectable step above that of the falcon in respect to dps, however, isn't survivability as opposed to damage going to be higher on your list whilst jamming?
Both ships get 7 medium slots. The rook gets 2 lows, whereas the falcon gets 3. Furthermore -- the falcon can fit and warp with the T2 cloak (yes you should know that, but I'm just making obvious comparisons here).
I just don't see the need for wanting to fly a rook any more. Maybe a ROF bonus as opposed to +kinetic? Since jamming strength is going to be on par between the two, make the damage upgrade (being the ONLY reason for flying the ship) worth losing 1 low and the ability to warp cloaked. Do we add fitting for the rook? Give it the same 3 lows as the falcon?
Don't get me wrong - I love my rook. I've only ever flown it because I'm a dedicated jammer. I now see myself moving over to the falcon, taking advantage of 1 additional low and a T2 cloak. My job isn't damage -- it's jamming.
But hey -- I'm looking forward to this, don't get me wrong. 3m cruiser with 75% jamming strength bonus? Makes the BB an even more awesome ship when I don't want to fly the recons.
One ECCM isn't enough. Fail more plx.
Bellum Eternus
[Vid] L E G E N D A R Y
[Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I |
Spartan dax
High4Life
SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.11.03 08:33:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Atsuko Ratu
Also, an increase in strength means you can choose not to put those lowslot mods on, or as much, and you will still get similiar strength
I suppose that's pretty much CCP's thinking, increase the ECM strength bonus so that the ECM ships can free up a few precious low slots. Well that's obviously not gonna happen to any larger extent.
The SDA's should either be removed completely from the game or turned into a DCU kind of module with the ECM modules being sligthly buffed. That would be the biggest buff to the ships and not a buff to ECM. This proposed change on sisi will only serve to make ECM ships even more primary.
I'll be honest and say that I like the current strenght on most of the ships, just a slight adjusting of where the bonuses are placed and I'd be happy as Larry. It's not an I win button like some people seem to think and it won't be after all these crazy bonus changes comes in, if they come in.
But, it won't actually make the ships better, it'll keep them a one trick pony and not really opening them up to any kind of outside the box thinking, a shame really.
For instance a HAM fitted Rook would be awesome to try out but isn't really a viable setup thanks to the SDA's in the lows. And I'm missing enough cycles as it is to dare try and take one off. Buff the ships, keep ECM the way it is!
|
Laboratus
Gallente
BGG
League of Abnormal Gentlemen
|
Posted - 2007.11.03 10:23:00 -
[59]
\o/
Maybe we will start to see more ECM ships out there.
___
P.S.
Post with your main.
Mind control and tin hats |
William DeMeo
Gallente
the united
|
Posted - 2007.11.03 11:10:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Ess Erbe
Originally by: Denga Vulture
ah well .. and why we nerf the arazu with its sensor damps ??? ... time to say again: welcome to caldari online
You have got to be kidding me.
While I'm personally not to happy with all aspects of the sensor dampener readjustments, they were incredibly powerful and didn't work off of the chance based system that ECM jammers do.
3 damps could neutralize any battlecruiser's offensive capability. A full-skilled Rook with the right racial jammer didn't have a 100% chance of doing that.
No but the difference is the battlecruiser pilot could just microwarpdrive within range and then pwn the person doing the dampening.
Yarr |
LUKEC
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2007.11.03 11:28:00 -
[61]
Edited by: LUKEC on 03/11/2007 11:28:51
Edited by: LUKEC on 03/11/2007 11:27:55
Originally by: William DeMeo
Originally by: Ess Erbe
Originally by: Denga Vulture
ah well .. and why we nerf the arazu with its sensor damps ??? ... time to say again: welcome to caldari online
You have got to be kidding me.
While I'm personally not to happy with all aspects of the sensor dampener readjustments, they were incredibly powerful and didn't work off of the chance based system that ECM jammers do.
3 damps could neutralize any battlecruiser's offensive capability. A full-skilled Rook with the right racial jammer didn't have a 100% chance of doing that.
No but the difference is the battlecruiser pilot could just microwarpdrive within range and then pwn the person doing the dampening.
Or get webbed and then kept at range(7-8km) while dying slowly to 250dps from arazu?
The silly thing is caldari cruiser class, old stuff that didn't require drones. Now rook with faction ammo and 5x hml II (unable to fit ham without gimping other stuff) does almighty 175dps (kin/otherwise less) and no tricks in the sleeve. That's like 50dps more than gallente/minmatar recons do with drones only.
Then you can't fit dmg mods thanks to silly distortion amps and not much shield buffer(1 lse II with rig for pg reduction) due to pg/slot limits.
Then you have no tricks in the sleeve like other recons(nanos mostly) and your weapons don't work at your "optimal" range. You can jam at 150 with reasonable skills, you can shoot at 60 :P
Oh and rook isn't getting any better really with new patch (3. amp doesn't do much, you still can't armor tank and 1 bcu will improve dps for 30. win? i don't think so)
|
KTOZ
Caldari
Mortis Angelus
The Church.
|
Posted - 2007.11.03 12:58:00 -
[62]
i didnt read all the post in here so excuse me if i mised something important or my question is already answeared somewhere but what are the rooks for by now then, if falcons will have more ecm str ( if u fit 3 signal dist amp ), and they are able to cloack also :) i m ecm pilot my self and told how ridiculus was the falcon nerf (provided by ecm mods nerf a while ago) long while ago. but this time wont they overpower the rooks on jamming + they can cloack??
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Kreul Intentions ([email protected]) |
Atsuko Ratu
Caldari
VSP Corp.
|
Posted - 2007.11.03 15:10:00 -
[63]
RoF bonus instead of kinetic, or 25m drone bay on the Rook please
|
Magazaki
|
Posted - 2007.11.03 15:56:00 -
[64]
Originally by: KTOZ
i didnt read all the post in here so excuse me if i mised something important or my question is already answeared somewhere but what are the rooks for by now then, if falcons will have more ecm str ( if u fit 3 signal dist amp ), and they are able to cloack also :) i m ecm pilot my self and told how ridiculus was the falcon nerf (provided by ecm mods nerf a while ago) long while ago. but this time wont they overpower the rooks on jamming + they can cloack??
The rook gets a 3rd low as well, so now their only difference is the dmg potential, and the small difference between combat and force recon resists...
-----sig-----
Originally by: Kaemonn:Signature
Originally by: kieron: off duty
You dont have to swallow!
Win... |
Setana Manoro
Gallente
Firefly Inc.
|
Posted - 2007.11.03 16:06:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Setana Manoro on 03/11/2007 16:10:18
Originally by: Volscani
Edited by: Volscani on 02/11/2007 10:41:34
Edited by: Volscani on 02/11/2007 09:32:01
edited no longer a rumor
I just heard a rumor(it was confirmed) that on sisi the scorpion, blackbird, and falcon now receive a 20% ecm jam bonus.
link below provides Information.
Flame away
Falcon is already 100 m in jita and rens. :(
Failgeddon wrecks CCP for XXX annoyed customers ! |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2007.11.03 21:19:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Setana Manoro
Falcon is already 100 m in jita and rens. :(
M-m-m-mmmmonster Invention Profit (for those wo'd do it) !
_
1|2|3 |
Hugh Ruka
Caldari
Free Traders
Free Trade Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.11.03 21:47:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Setana Manoro
Edited by: Setana Manoro on 03/11/2007 16:10:18
Originally by: Volscani
Edited by: Volscani on 02/11/2007 10:41:34
Edited by: Volscani on 02/11/2007 09:32:01
edited no longer a rumor
I just heard a rumor(it was confirmed) that on sisi the scorpion, blackbird, and falcon now receive a 20% ecm jam bonus.
link below provides Information.
Flame away
Falcon is already 100 m in jita and rens. :(
**** I should have bought more than one ...
Originally by: Aravel Thon
Originally by: Nith Batoxxx
Hi my alt just leanred to fly the ferox...............
I am so so terribly sorry...
|
Daelin Blackleaf
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2007.11.03 23:01:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 03/11/2007 23:02:03
Somebody think of the poor Minmatar!
|
Veryez
|
Posted - 2007.11.04 17:04:00 -
[69]
Christmas came early this year.
I am SO SICK of fitting RSD's on a Scorpion. Since the day it came out I said ECM ships got nerfed too much, the ECM nerf was fine, but the ship nerf was too much. Caldari Battleship 5, Signal Dispersion 5 and I get told - bring a rohk. Maybe I'll get to fly my favorite ship again.
|
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
M. PIRE
|
Posted - 2007.11.05 00:17:00 -
[70]
IMO the Scorpion needed this. Being less good at jamming than the Rook, mean the Scorp was just plain obselete.
As for the others? I'm not convinced they need boosting. Blackbirds are/were the 'cheap ECM cruiser'. Falcons are cloakers that can jam. Rooks were mobile jamming platforms. (because lets face it, no one flew them for their awesome caracal grade DPS). All had their niche.
And whilst we're at it, the Kitsune needs that jammer bonus moved to EAS not frigate.
--
Crane needs more grid
249km locking?
GMP and TNP |
Byzan Zwyth
Dark Centuri Inc.
Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2007.11.05 00:31:00 -
[71]
seems like a bit much, dont know when devs from any game will learn not to nerf/boost stuff too much. crazy,
----------------------
Rank: Tech 1 and a 1/2 cannon fodder
Pointless forum slowing bandwidth hogging signature pic inc? |
Cyan Nuevo
Dudes In Crazy Killing Ships
|
Posted - 2007.11.05 02:03:00 -
[72]
OK, an ECM boost is good in general, but 20% for the Falcon? Way too much. It's a friggin' force recon.
---
Proud Amarr pilot.
|
Adam Weishaupt
Minmatar
Pyrrhus Sicarii
The Church.
|
Posted - 2007.11.05 03:03:00 -
[73]
Yeah, but what's the point of flying the Rook in fleets now? Is there one? The Falcon is infinitely more useful with its ability to act as scout and cyno ship, AND high-powered ECM boat. Who cares about damage? Granted, I sometimes choose to fly the Huginn when I could be in a Rapier, but ECM ships always get primaried over anything else.
I don't think it's really a bad change, but I agree with the guy who said that is just a really unfair kick in the gut to the pilgrim. I normally don't like Amarr ships, but once upon a time thought about training for them just for the recons.
|
Multras
Caldari
D00M.
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2007.11.05 03:14:00 -
[74]
All the other races recons had the same Ewar bonuses, why should Caldari's be treated different?
Thanks to EVE Art Store for the sig. |
Nebuchadnezzar I
Art of War
Cult of War
|
Posted - 2007.11.05 04:21:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Tacitus Krekt
And a personal question, in regards to the rook/falcon.
Is there any reason to fly a rook anymore - other than the fact that you bring a ship dealing sub-caracal damage? Granted it is a respectable step above that of the falcon in respect to dps, however, isn't survivability as opposed to damage going to be higher on your list whilst jamming?
Both ships get 7 medium slots. The rook gets 2 lows, whereas the falcon gets 3. Furthermore -- the falcon can fit and warp with the T2 cloak (yes you should know that, but I'm just making obvious comparisons here).
I just don't see the need for wanting to fly a rook any more. Maybe a ROF bonus as opposed to +kinetic? Since jamming strength is going to be on par between the two, make the damage upgrade (being the ONLY reason for flying the ship) worth losing 1 low and the ability to warp cloaked. Do we add fitting for the rook? Give it the same 3 lows as the falcon?
Don't get me wrong - I love my rook. I've only ever flown it because I'm a dedicated jammer. I now see myself moving over to the falcon, taking advantage of 1 additional low and a T2 cloak. My job isn't damage -- it's jamming.
Well, the rook is cheaper :)
|
Theron Gyrow
Gradient
Electus Matari
|
Posted - 2007.11.05 07:36:00 -
[76]
Originally by: ElCoCo
Why would it need scripts? I think the existance of racial jammers and the low strength of the multis (with pretty high cap use), pretty much covers it.
No worries, ECM mods apparently get an overall 40% cap use reduction on test server. Multis will use less cap than racials do now. 
--
Gradient forum |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
|
Posted - 2007.11.05 07:47:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Originally by: ElCoCo
Why would it need scripts? I think the existance of racial jammers and the low strength of the multis (with pretty high cap use), pretty much covers it.
No worries, ECM mods apparently get an overall 40% cap use reduction on test server. Multis will use less cap than racials do now.
Holy christ. TQ: 96 cap activation cost for a Hypnos multispec. On Sisi: 57 cap. Just f'ing great.
Bellum Eternus
[Vid] L E G E N D A R Y
[Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I |
Incantare
Caldari
Kernel of War
Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2007.11.05 07:51:00 -
[78]
Properly set up ECM ships have no tank, a small buffer at most. Apart from the scorp they have no drone bay. ECM is chance based and when you add to that no tank it leads to a constant risk of sudden death. Of course there are advantages too (range, near total shutdown...) but the drawbacks are major.
When your dampening boats stop fitting armor tanks and fit low slot strength mods instead, give up their drone bays and damps become chance based you'll have the right to complain about them being less effective.
The current situation is backwards, and is being corrected.
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Leya Marcsson
|
Posted - 2007.11.05 08:09:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Incantare
Properly set up ECM ships have no tank, a small buffer at most.
Exact that is the reason dedicated ECM boots need that Bonus.
|
Mary Makepeace
Caldari
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2007.11.05 10:09:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Originally by: ElCoCo
Why would it need scripts? I think the existance of racial jammers and the low strength of the multis (with pretty high cap use), pretty much covers it.
No worries, ECM mods apparently get an overall 40% cap use reduction on test server. Multis will use less cap than racials do now.
Holy christ. TQ: 96 cap activation cost for a Hypnos multispec. On Sisi: 57 cap. Just f'ing great.
that is really going to far, especially with the number of ships that have cap reduction bonuses.
any fleet should now have about 20% BBs with the idiot fit of multies.
|
Multras
Caldari
D00M.
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2007.11.05 10:43:00 -
[81]
Who honestly uses multis? "Never fear I got a 15-20% chance to jam that BS hope it doesnt fail guys!"
Thanks to EVE Art Store for the sig. |
welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
|
Posted - 2007.11.05 10:47:00 -
[82]
Edited by: welsh wizard on 05/11/2007 10:50:30
Should be:
Scorpion: 20% ECM strength, lower mass
Blackbird: lower mass
Falcon 15% ECM strength, +1 turret/missile hardpoint, lower mass
Rook: lower mass, kinetic damage bonus switched to all types
Not much point in the Rook with the Falcon changes. You don't really use the Rook for damage anyway...
Also the Pilgrim needs its nos/neut range bonus increased by about 50% to bring it closer to the Curse.
[Balance] The Caldari problem. |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
M. PIRE
|
Posted - 2007.11.05 10:49:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Multras
Edited by: Multras on 05/11/2007 10:46:56
Who honestly uses multis? On any dedicated jamming ship you use racials. They have longer range, use less CPU, and less cap, although cap isnt really an issue.
It's better odds than an 'off' racial, especially if you're looking at a small number of opponents (e.g. so there's still fairly good chances that you won't get 1 jammer per ship of the right race).
Most reason I use racials is range.
--
Crane needs more grid
249km locking?
GMP and TNP |
Hugh Ruka
Caldari
Free Traders
Free Trade Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.11.05 11:20:00 -
[84]
Originally by: welsh wizard
Edited by: welsh wizard on 05/11/2007 10:50:30
Should be:
Scorpion: 20% ECM strength, lower mass
Blackbird: lower mass
Falcon 15% ECM strength, +1 turret/missile hardpoint, lower mass
Rook: lower mass, kinetic damage bonus switched to all types
Not much point in the Rook with the Falcon changes. You don't really use the Rook for damage anyway...
Also the Pilgrim needs its nos/neut range bonus increased by about 50% to bring it closer to the Curse.
hmm agreed :-) tho the +1 hardpoint on the falcon will do nothing. I'd like a probe launcher CPU bonus instead.
Originally by: Aravel Thon
Originally by: Nith Batoxxx
Hi my alt just leanred to fly the ferox...............
I am so so terribly sorry...
|
Ancy Denaries
Caldari
Isseras Manufacture
|
Posted - 2007.11.05 11:44:00 -
[85]
Originally by: MrRookie
I like that they changed the cap use on the frigs aswell. 10% - 15% reduction. Might even make the griffin a viable cheap EW frig
It already is. I use it daily :P (and loose a few too, I must admit :D)
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Cyan Nuevo
Dudes In Crazy Killing Ships
|
Posted - 2007.11.06 20:12:00 -
[86]
Originally by: welsh wizard
Scorpion: 20% ECM strength, lower mass
Blackbird: lower mass
Falcon 15% ECM strength, +1 turret/missile hardpoint, lower mass
Rook: lower mass, kinetic damage bonus switched to all types
Not much point in the Rook with the Falcon changes. You don't really use the Rook for damage anyway...
Agreed. "Not much point in the Rook" is an understatement.
---
Proud Amarr pilot.
|
Neo Rainhart
Caldari
Leela's Lamas
|
Posted - 2007.11.06 20:25:00 -
[87]
This will make the caldari recons same as amarr recons were before nosnerf..solopwnmobiles..now before nerfing them back to less jam strenght, just boost all other recons to the same level and everyone is happy
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Cyan Nuevo
Dudes In Crazy Killing Ships
|
Posted - 2007.11.06 20:35:00 -
[88]
No, they won't be solo pwnmobiles because only the Pilgrim and the Curse can (could?) actually kill anything since nosferatu and neutralizers can break tanks.
The Falcon will just be overpowered, overused, and generally a big pain.
---
Proud Amarr pilot.
|
J Valkor
Blackguard Brigade
|
Posted - 2007.11.06 20:47:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Cyan Nuevo
No, they won't be solo pwnmobiles because only the Pilgrim and the Curse can (could?) actually kill anything since nosferatu and neutralizers can break tanks.
The Falcon will just be overpowered, overused, and generally a big pain.
Yes, but not solo. Which is the important bit.
|
welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
|
Posted - 2007.11.06 21:33:00 -
[90]
No drones, no nos, no solopwn.
[Balance] The Caldari problem. |
Waxau
Mortis Angelus
The Church.
|
Posted - 2007.11.06 21:38:00 -
[91]
Originally by: welsh wizard
No drones, no nos, no solopwn.
Lets boost them again!!! ^^
|
Feirik
|
Posted - 2007.11.06 21:49:00 -
[92]
Oh good, lets rebalance all ewar... and suddenly buff ecm.
People were talking about how ecm would get alot more used now with dampner rebalance, and on top of that you give the jamming ships a buff? Way to go... maybe look after patch at ecm ship usage instead of having multiple changes affecting 1 thing (ewar balance) in a quick go. I'd tell you, ecm ships wouldve been used alot even without this buff.
This is coming from a falcon pilot... ask any [Insert random pirate camp] how fail my falcon was with the poor 10% bonus. (and thats with medicore skills)
15% to the BS, keep falcon and BB at 10%... have a close look how extensively the new t2 ewar frig will be used aswell.
Hmmmmmmmm: This could actually be interesting, just lower some hac's sensor strenght a little, and you would see whole nanogangs getting permajammed by 1 ewar ship. Could be a counter... But still think its stupid to have 1 destinct kind of ewar needed for a gang.
Change first thing.
See what happens. (You cant check this on test/dev servers, the players on TQ always find new ways to 'exploit' changes to the maximum.)
Discuss if a new change is needed to balance further.
Rinse and repeat.
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Leya Marcsson
|
Posted - 2007.11.06 22:02:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Leya Marcsson on 06/11/2007 22:02:46
It is a good buff, if you fly a ship focused on ECM with no tank with barly any damage - using the all MID slots (but one) for ECM you should have a greater success rate than 60-70% on at least 2 battleships.
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Waxau
Mortis Angelus
The Church.
|
Posted - 2007.11.06 23:10:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Waxau on 06/11/2007 23:11:11
Kk - ill explain, for new and old players.
Last year, during the great caldari nerf, ECM was nerfed (namely due to ECM/NOS domis). Those 2007 players who think nos domis were bad....imagine if you cant even target them back. However, due to this nerf, ALL ecm was nerfed. This meant that ECM ships were in effect made redundant in all but small small gangs. With the introduction however of singal dispersion amps, they got a SLIGHT boost, to that of being as good as a domi back in the days of 2006.
With this boost now hitting ECM ships, they are now back to their previous strength. A balanced one. It was voiced for the entire year, and straight after the patch, that folks thought that ECM should have been nerfed for ONLY non-ecm ships.
Another arguement was that caldari was made less useful in pvp. At the time, we had barely no pvp ships. Or capable pvp ships. The ferox was near to useless, the raven wasnt the best choice for the long range battles, and the harpy/hawk arent the most useful ships to say the least for pvp. That left caldari with the ecm ships, and the crow.
Then the ecm ships went.
This boost puts caldari back on par with other races. And even more so, in role play aspects, caldari are always favoured as a 'fleet' race. Strength in numbers, rather than singularity. Such as gallente, vs caldari.
So to finish off - The falcon may be a fantastic jammer, and a hell of an annoying opponent, but solo - its little more than a fly buzzing around your head, and is as much risk as an air molecule. Those who think its overpowered, will just have to have a taste of what it feels like to be anything other than the superior race (gallente...) lol
Just for clarity:
ECM ships have NO damage, NO tank, NO speed, NO defence, NO tackling equipment.
All they have is ECM.
|
Mary Makepeace
Caldari
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2007.11.07 11:00:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Mary Makepeace on 07/11/2007 11:00:38
Originally by: Waxau
Just for clarity:
ECM ships have NO damage, NO tank, NO speed, NO defence, NO tackling equipment.
All they have is ECM.
and they are always called primary.
|
Ceridan02
Caldari
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2007.11.07 11:19:00 -
[96]
Edited by: Ceridan02 on 07/11/2007 11:21:35
The Scorpion with this "boost" is as strong as it was before the ECM nerf.... it took only one year to for CCP to find this out. 
Before the nerf the ECM Moduls had 100% strength¦, the Scorpion a Bonus of 10%/level.
After the nerf the ECM Moduls have 50% strength, but the Bonus didnt change to 20% which makes jamming like Blackbird with the same bonuses.
ECM is the only role the Scorpion fits in, plated it is flying like a Moon and does nearly no damage.
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IamBen
Caldari
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
|
Posted - 2007.11.07 11:29:00 -
[97]
time to dust off my scorpion.
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