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Xequecal	Posted - 2007.11.03 05:26:00 - [91] 7.5% armor repped/level is better than 5% resist/level in missions. It's worse in PvP, but nobody is going to PvP in this, it costs way too much. Also, if you think an Abaddon can beat this in missions you're nuts. The Paladin can: - Tractor and salvage WHILE running the mission. You don't have to come back with another ship. Cuts missioning time down significantly. - Burns out crystals at half the rate of the Abaddon, saving ISK. - Has more than enough PG to mission with a full rack of Tachyons and a full tank. Tachyons with Amarr Navy Gamma have superior range and damage to Mega Pulses with Scorch, and you can change in long range ammo on the fly if you want to snipe. Pimp this ship out and nothing is going to outdo it for missioning. 4x Tachyon Beam Laser II Tractor Beam 2x Salvager 2x Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer Domination Stasis Webifier Cap Recharger II Centus X-type LAR 2x Amarr Navy Heat Sink Capacitor Power Relay II 3x rat specific hardener 2x CCC I You're not going to beat the efficiency of this in an Abaddon, ever.
Dromololla	Posted - 2007.11.03 06:43:00 - [92] Ok, anyone can you tell me if we get this ship next patch or in faction warfare patch? Cant get it still!
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.11.03 07:20:00 - [93] Originally by: Xequecal Also, if you think an Abaddon can beat this in missions you're nuts. The Paladin can: - Tractor and salvage WHILE running the mission. You don't have to come back with another ship. Cuts missioning time down significantly. False. While you may be able to gather the wrecks in one place with a rack of tractors, your salvaging with only two salvagers and no tackle rigs will utterly suck. You WILL still come back in a real salvage ship. Of course you can then fit that one with 8 salvagers and be somewhat faster, but it is really only a small improvement in missions. If you can even afford to spend the cap on the looting modules while melting the NPCs. Quote: - Burns out crystals at half the rate of the Abaddon, saving ISK. My Abaddon still runs on its first set of faction crystals which I bought the day they came out, so crystal burnout is pretty much a non issue, unless maybe with scorch which will not be all that good on this ship as you describe in your next point. Quote: - Has more than enough PG to mission with a full rack of Tachyons and a full tank. Tachyons with Amarr Navy Gamma have superior range and damage to Mega Pulses with Scorch, and you can change in long range ammo on the fly if you want to snipe. Pimp this ship out and nothing is going to outdo it for missioning. 4x Tachyon Beam Laser II Tractor Beam 2x Salvager 2x Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer Domination Stasis Webifier Cap Recharger II Centus X-type LAR 2x Amarr Navy Heat Sink Capacitor Power Relay II 3x rat specific hardener 2x CCC I You're not going to beat the efficiency of this in an Abaddon, ever. Abaddon gets 5% extra damage from bonus (unless you got Marauder 5 which is pretty unrealistic) and the 25% resist bonus is also flat out better than the 30% rep amount you get from Marauder 4 on the Paladin. That leaves as real extra bonuses only the cap one and the web one. My Abaddon works perfectly fine without a web and has no cap trouble, so in the end the Paladin will perform slightly worse and gather the loot slightly quicker, which will cancel each other out more or less. So why get a 700 mil ship for a job done just as well by a 150 mil one? Give the Paladin the tracking bonus back and it will have something. Otherwise it will only be useful for people who don't know how to properly fit an Abaddon. I wouldn't even mind a nerf to its PG so it can NOT fit a full rack of tachs without at least one pdu, if only the tracking bonus comes back for one of the less valuable bonuses (web, cap, rep). There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Terianna Eri Amarr STK Scientific Black-Out	Posted - 2007.11.03 07:28:00 - [94] GOOD JOB CCP! <3 Change the web bonus to a tracking one though imho. I'd ask for rep amount -> resists but I won't be that greedy :) __________________________________
Paeniteo	Posted - 2007.11.03 07:35:00 - [95] Personally I think the paladin should really just be a khanid missile boat If you're making it for PvE you might as well give it PvE friendly weapons.
Xequecal	Posted - 2007.11.03 07:48:00 - [96] Edited by: Xequecal on 03/11/2007 07:48:40 Originally by: Leandro Salazar False. While you may be able to gather the wrecks in one place with a rack of tractors, your salvaging with only two salvagers and no tackle rigs will utterly suck. You WILL still come back in a real salvage ship. Of course you can then fit that one with 8 salvagers and be somewhat faster, but it is really only a small improvement in missions. If you can even afford to spend the cap on the looting modules while melting the NPCs. I suppose you have a point if you intend to salvage all the frigs in a typical mission. However, with Salvaging IV and two salvagers it goes pretty damn fast, with double tractorbeam speed you'll generally be able to get a BS tractored in, looted, and salvaged while you're blowing up the next one. FYI: Salvaging skill stacks additively. Salvaging IV is four times more effective than Salvaging I. Quote: Abaddon gets 5% extra damage from bonus (unless you got Marauder 5 which is pretty unrealistic) and the 25% resist bonus is also flat out better than the 30% rep amount you get from Marauder 4 on the Paladin. That leaves as real extra bonuses only the cap one and the web one. My Abaddon works perfectly fine without a web and has no cap trouble, so in the end the Paladin will perform slightly worse and gather the loot slightly quicker, which will cancel each other out more or less. So why get a 700 mil ship for a job done just as well by a 150 mil one? Give the Paladin the tracking bonus back and it will have something. Otherwise it will only be useful for people who don't know how to properly fit an Abaddon. I wouldn't even mind a nerf to its PG so it can NOT fit a full rack of tachs without at least one pdu, if only the tracking bonus comes back for one of the less valuable bonuses (web, cap, rep). 1. Tachyon IIs with Amarr Navy MF outdamage Mega Pulses with Scorch by a LARGE margin. With two SS tracking comps the optimal is 44km and 25km falloff. Note that absolutely NOTHING in a non-storyline mission will orbit further than 49km away from you, ever. You simply cannot fit 8x Tachyon II on an Abaddon unless the mission requires absolutely no tank whatsoever, the cap use is way too severe to shoot and tank with them. (83 cap/second just to fire guns.) 2. The 5% armor resistances/level is not "far better" than 7.5% armor repaired/level. It is approximately 3% better. 5% armor resist/level is equivalent to 33% armor repaired/level. Note that 5% resist/level is far, far better in PvP (as it works on passive tanks) but for missions it's only very slightly superior.
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.11.03 11:48:00 - [97] Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 03/11/2007 11:48:17 Originally by: Xequecal Edited by: Xequecal on 03/11/2007 07:48:40 Originally by: Leandro Salazar False. While you may be able to gather the wrecks in one place with a rack of tractors, your salvaging with only two salvagers and no tackle rigs will utterly suck. You WILL still come back in a real salvage ship. Of course you can then fit that one with 8 salvagers and be somewhat faster, but it is really only a small improvement in missions. If you can even afford to spend the cap on the looting modules while melting the NPCs. I suppose you have a point if you intend to salvage all the frigs in a typical mission. However, with Salvaging IV and two salvagers it goes pretty damn fast, with double tractorbeam speed you'll generally be able to get a BS tractored in, looted, and salvaged while you're blowing up the next one. FYI: Salvaging skill stacks additively. Salvaging IV is four times more effective than Salvaging I. Well I only salvage BSes and the occasional medium wreck that happens to be in salvager range already. Maybe it is as you say, but I not so long ago switched from salvaging without tackles to salvaging with three tackles, and it was a whole world of a difference, so having only two untackled salvagers does seem a bit underpowered to me. Quote: Quote: Abaddon gets 5% extra damage from bonus (unless you got Marauder 5 which is pretty unrealistic) and the 25% resist bonus is also flat out better than the 30% rep amount you get from Marauder 4 on the Paladin. That leaves as real extra bonuses only the cap one and the web one. My Abaddon works perfectly fine without a web and has no cap trouble, so in the end the Paladin will perform slightly worse and gather the loot slightly quicker, which will cancel each other out more or less. So why get a 700 mil ship for a job done just as well by a 150 mil one? Give the Paladin the tracking bonus back and it will have something. Otherwise it will only be useful for people who don't know how to properly fit an Abaddon. I wouldn't even mind a nerf to its PG so it can NOT fit a full rack of tachs without at least one pdu, if only the tracking bonus comes back for one of the less valuable bonuses (web, cap, rep). 1. Tachyon IIs with Amarr Navy MF outdamage Mega Pulses with Scorch by a LARGE margin. With two SS tracking comps the optimal is 44km and 25km falloff. Note that absolutely NOTHING in a non-storyline mission will orbit further than 49km away from you, ever. You simply cannot fit 8x Tachyon II on an Abaddon unless the mission requires absolutely no tank whatsoever, the cap use is way too severe to shoot and tank with them. (83 cap/second just to fire guns.) Well my Abaddon usually runs 3 Tachs and 5 Megabeams with a slight tank, that is only slightly less damage than 8 Tachs in theory, and assuming only +20% damage on the Paladin and +25% on the Abaddon, it should actually be more. Quote: 2. The 5% armor resistances/level is not "far better" than 7.5% armor repaired/level. It is approximately 3% better. 5% armor resist/level is equivalent to 33% armor repaired/level. Note that 5% resist/level is far, far better in PvP (as it works on passive tanks) but for missions it's only very slightly superior. Quite the contrary. In the ganktank mission running that I do, most of my actual tank is the HP buffer, not the repper. The repper is only there to fill that buffer back up when it runs a little low. So the resistance bonus is 3% better for my repping, and 33% better for my main tank feature. And to me, that IS far better. I guess for a permatanking afk-fool the repper bonus would be better IF it reached 37.5%. Which it will not on the Paladin for most people. There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
KD.Fluffy The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.03 12:44:00 - [98] Quote: Well I only salvage BSes and the occasional medium wreck that happens to be in salvager range already. Maybe it is as you say, but I not so long ago switched from salvaging without tackles to salvaging with three tackles, and it was a whole world of a difference, so having only two untackled salvagers does seem a bit underpowered to me. You seem to be unaware of the fact that a salvage tackle only speeds up the process of salvaging, not the quality of salvaged components. It boosts the access difficulty which just determines your chance of salvaging a wreck, not what you salvage from it. Boost The Eagle!
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.11.03 12:50:00 - [99] Originally by: KD.Fluffy Quote: Well I only salvage BSes and the occasional medium wreck that happens to be in salvager range already. Maybe it is as you say, but I not so long ago switched from salvaging without tackles to salvaging with three tackles, and it was a whole world of a difference, so having only two untackled salvagers does seem a bit underpowered to me. You seem to be unaware of the fact that a salvage tackle only speeds up the process of salvaging, not the quality of salvaged components. It boosts the access difficulty which just determines your chance of salvaging a wreck, not what you salvage from it. Oh of course I am aware of that. But missioning is all about doing stuff fast, and if you fall behind due to only two untackled salvagers, it is inefficient. The whole world of difference is that the tackled hurricane salvages much faster. And time = isk. There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Doomed Predator Xoth Inc Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.11.03 13:56:00 - [100] Edited by: Doomed Predator on 03/11/2007 13:56:11 Originally by: Shadowsword THIS I will buy. :) Now, CCP, if you could boost the Golem, too... yes please,give the golem a dmg bonus and i'll be happy and every caldari player
Jezabel2	Posted - 2007.11.03 15:49:00 - [101] Originally by: Xequecal Edited by: Xequecal on 03/11/2007 07:48:40 Originally by: Leandro Salazar False. While you may be able to gather the wrecks in one place with a rack of tractors, your salvaging with only two salvagers and no tackle rigs will utterly suck. You WILL still come back in a real salvage ship. Of course you can then fit that one with 8 salvagers and be somewhat faster, but it is really only a small improvement in missions. If you can even afford to spend the cap on the looting modules while melting the NPCs. I suppose you have a point if you intend to salvage all the frigs in a typical mission. However, with Salvaging IV and two salvagers it goes pretty damn fast, with double tractorbeam speed you'll generally be able to get a BS tractored in, looted, and salvaged while you're blowing up the next one. FYI: Salvaging skill stacks additively. Salvaging IV is four times more effective than Salvaging I. Quote: Abaddon gets 5% extra damage from bonus (unless you got Marauder 5 which is pretty unrealistic) and the 25% resist bonus is also flat out better than the 30% rep amount you get from Marauder 4 on the Paladin. That leaves as real extra bonuses only the cap one and the web one. My Abaddon works perfectly fine without a web and has no cap trouble, so in the end the Paladin will perform slightly worse and gather the loot slightly quicker, which will cancel each other out more or less. So why get a 700 mil ship for a job done just as well by a 150 mil one? Give the Paladin the tracking bonus back and it will have something. Otherwise it will only be useful for people who don't know how to properly fit an Abaddon. I wouldn't even mind a nerf to its PG so it can NOT fit a full rack of tachs without at least one pdu, if only the tracking bonus comes back for one of the less valuable bonuses (web, cap, rep). 1. Tachyon IIs with Amarr Navy MF outdamage Mega Pulses with Scorch by a LARGE margin. With two SS tracking comps the optimal is 44km and 25km falloff. Note that absolutely NOTHING in a non-storyline mission will orbit further than 49km away from you, ever. You simply cannot fit 8x Tachyon II on an Abaddon unless the mission requires absolutely no tank whatsoever, the cap use is way too severe to shoot and tank with them. (83 cap/second just to fire guns.) 2. The 5% armor resistances/level is not "far better" than 7.5% armor repaired/level. It is approximately 3% better. 5% armor resist/level is equivalent to 33% armor repaired/level. Note that 5% resist/level is far, far better in PvP (as it works on passive tanks) but for missions it's only very slightly superior. Just remeber To switch back to pulses in angel missions cause tracking beams at 7 km is like firing blanks ;)
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2007.11.03 20:19:00 - [102] \\o o// \o\ /o/ )o) (o( )o( (o) \\o o// \o\ /o/ )o) (o( )o( (o) \o/.
Almarez Setenta Corp Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2007.11.04 05:34:00 - [103] Originally by: NoNah 10 turrets(with the 50% cap use built in), 37.5% more tank, 25% more cap, and a 99% web, I do believe this is a ship I'll fly. I agree this is MUCH better but I don't know if you're right on the 50% cap use built in if you're comparing it to the Apoc as at lvl Amarr BS it is the same cap use as this. I think that makes sense. News flash: Alliance losing members at an astounding rate but it's okay cause I just saved a bunch of money on car insurance by switching to Geiko.
Jack Jombardo Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.04 05:50:00 - [104] Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 04/11/2007 05:50:20 it will be a perfect salvager ship :D 7 * Cargo Expander II 2 * Cargo Optimizer II 4 * Tractorbeam 3 * Salvager 8873 m3 Cargo with 40 km Tractor range ;) so now even the last use for Destroyers is gone :(.
Almarez Setenta Corp Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2007.11.04 05:52:00 - [105] Originally by: Jack Jombardo Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 04/11/2007 05:50:20 it will be a perfect salvager ship :D 7 * Cargo Expander II 2 * Cargo Optimizer II 4 * Tractorbeam 3 * Salvager 8873 m3 Cargo with 40 km Tractor range ;) so now even the last use for Destroyers is gone :(. LOL. News flash: Alliance losing members at an astounding rate but it's okay cause I just saved a bunch of money on car insurance by switching to Geiko.
The ArchWarder Dragons Of Redemption Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.04 06:03:00 - [106] Change the useless web bonus to a tracking bonus and you have a ship thats worth a T2 pricetag. Honestly fixing this ship was as simple as removing the useless web bonus and adding a dmg bonus in the beginning and problem would have been solved.

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