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Incantare Caldari Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.11.02 17:10:00 - [61] Though I think the tracking bonus was great and differenciated this ship from the t1 BSs, I'm glad they gave it a damage. It'll at least be useable now.
Laboratus Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.11.02 17:18:00 - [62] This ship so needs its name changed... A related link ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
kessah Blood Blind	Posted - 2007.11.02 17:19:00 - [63] can we have the Apoc looked at now please. -------------------------------------------------------- [Video] Forever Pirate 3
Ma Raia'l Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.02 17:46:00 - [64] MUCH BETTER, but the web and repair bonuses are still so.. non-Amarrian. I would expect the web bonus on the Minmatar ship, the rep amount on the Gallante. It's not just the Paladin though; it seems the devs went crazy on the bonuses, throwing whatever they felt like on random ships with no regard to the typical racial trends. Pre-boost The Paladin had a web bonus AND a tracking bonus, when only one is needed. Now that tracking bonus is a damage bonus, but I think that the Paladin should have retained the tracking bonus, and the web bonus replaced instead. As well as the rep repair amount changed to a 5% resistance per level bonus. For being a Carthum ship, the Paladin's bonuses don't really reflect that. So it would look like: * 5% bonus to capacitor capacity per Amarr BS level * 5% bonus to large energy turret damage per Amarr BS level * 5% bonus to armor resistance per Marauder level * 7.5% bonus to large energy turret tracking per Marauder level
Cryselle	Posted - 2007.11.02 17:49:00 - [65] Originally by: Ma Raia'l * 5% bonus to capacitor capacity per Amarr BS level * 5% bonus to large energy turret damage per Amarr BS level * 5% bonus to armor resistance per Marauder level * 7.5% bonus to large energy turret tracking per Marauder level That's what I call Amarrian!
Kruel Blunt Force Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.02 18:14:00 - [66] Originally by: Ma Raia'l * 5% bonus to capacitor capacity per Amarr BS level * 5% bonus to large energy turret damage per Amarr BS level * 5% bonus to armor resistance per Marauder level * 7.5% bonus to large energy turret tracking per Marauder level ^^ That's what I'm talkin about!
xDow Fallen Pandas	Posted - 2007.11.02 18:15:00 - [67] Originally by: Ma Raia'l * 5% bonus to capacitor capacity per Amarr BS level * 5% bonus to large energy turret damage per Amarr BS level * 5% bonus to armor resistance per Marauder level * 7.5% bonus to large energy turret tracking per Marauder level Yes! - I has a spaceship.
Kera Va'Tauri	Posted - 2007.11.02 18:15:00 - [68] Originally by: Ma Raia'l MUCH BETTER, but the web and repair bonuses are still so.. non-Amarrian. I would expect the web bonus on the Minmatar ship, the rep amount on the Gallante. It's not just the Paladin though; it seems the devs went crazy on the bonuses, throwing whatever they felt like on random ships with no regard to the typical racial trends. Pre-boost The Paladin had a web bonus AND a tracking bonus, when only one is needed. Now that tracking bonus is a damage bonus, but I think that the Paladin should have retained the tracking bonus, and the web bonus replaced instead. As well as the rep repair amount changed to a 5% resistance per level bonus. For being a Carthum ship, the Paladin's bonuses don't really reflect that. So it would look like: * 5% bonus to capacitor capacity per Amarr BS level * 5% bonus to large energy turret damage per Amarr BS level * 5% bonus to armor resistance per Marauder level * 7.5% bonus to large energy turret tracking per Marauder level
Qui Shon	Posted - 2007.11.02 18:15:00 - [69] Edited by: Qui Shon on 02/11/2007 18:20:46 Originally by: eLLioTT wave You fail to see the design of these ships. It is for close range, hence if you'd have read my other points you would see AB bonus. Perhaps make AB half an MWD for these ships. Then you could get into range a lot quicker. If this isn't done they may be turned into OP sniper ships. This is CCP's design for Marauders, like it or not they are not meant to be sniper pvp ships. Indeed they are not sniper pvp ships, that's why they don't have a resist bonus and don't offer anything over their T1 counterparts in that role that would come close to justifying the price. That's also why they'll be permajammed. I read your other ideas, and I disagree with the short range idea. Frankly, I think it sucks. AB / MWD, doesn't matter for many missions. Still too slow to switch targets, imho. Pulse outdamages Beams only by a little, and needs to get within 20km to do that superior damage. No, webbing bonus does make some sense. You web the close target and let it slow down while you shoot the target at 30+km, with Beams. If you can manage that, your guns work non-stop, which means you gain 700-900+ dps for every second your guns are active compared to the Pulse + AB/MWD ship which uses those seconds to get in range. Ofc you can't do it for full effect if your long range target is at 45-50+km, since you'll need longer range crystals but that doesn't mean the web thing won't work. And a Faction fit Beam Geddon still does decent damage at 80km, much like a Tach Abaddon. Pulse do nothing. One day I'll fly a faction Tach Geddon in missions, though not alone of course. Btw, how does 13500mw translate to meant for 4x large Pulse? Or did they change it? Perhaps you didn't notice that grid. Geddon only has 16500mw, and needs to fit 7 guns. 4x faction Beams at AWU 5 is less then 12900mw, and with Engineering 5 the Paladin should have almost 4000 grid left over, before grid mods, to fit tank and whatever. Geddon is 1800mw in the negative in the same situation, Abaddon has 500mw left after fitting beams, -3500 after Tachs. Obviously, Beams are easy to fit, and Tachs are entirely possible for the Paladin. Unless they have changed the grid after the dev blog? Sure you have to gimp your tank, almost remove it entirely, to fit 3xHS + 7x Beams on Geddon, but that's still the only way I'd ever fly the Geddon for missions, and have a remprep or two on another ship. Paladin allows beams, 3xHS and 4 slot rep tank.
FOFOFOF CRAPSTORM	Posted - 2007.11.02 18:17:00 - [70] Originally by: Ma Raia'l So it would look like: * 5% bonus to capacitor capacity per Amarr BS level * 5% bonus to large energy turret damage per Amarr BS level * 5% bonus to armor resistance per Marauder level * 7.5% bonus to large energy turret tracking per Marauder level THIS!
Kera Va'Tauri	Posted - 2007.11.02 18:17:00 - [71] Originally by: Ma Raia'l So it would look like: * 5% bonus to capacitor capacity per Amarr BS level * 5% bonus to large energy turret damage per Amarr BS level * 5% bonus to armor resistance per Marauder level * 7.5% bonus to large energy turret tracking per Marauder level Personally I would switch the 5% armor resist and 5% turret damage bonuses, but otherwise I LOVE these bonuses. As you level up Marauder you're damagewould get better and you're tank would be at 100% right from the start. Additionally, I would change the Paladin's base cap to match or beat the Kronos, to make the cap bonus actually a bonus. It would be an Amarr ship that actually works and works well!
DeadDuck Amarr Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.02 18:30:00 - [72] The ships is now great. Extremelly good for NPC, fleet battle and close range. Best Amarr BS hands down.
MirrorGod Heretic Army	Posted - 2007.11.02 18:39:00 - [73] Edited by: MirrorGod on 02/11/2007 18:40:26
MirrorGod Heretic Army	Posted - 2007.11.02 18:40:00 - [74] Originally by: Vasq so it now has a dmg bonus on top of the built in dmg bonus! i'm not suprised all the amarr pilots are pleased with it, as it will be by far the most powerfull ranged ship of the new class CCP really does fall prey to the forum whiners STFU, KTHX
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.02 18:41:00 - [75] Edited by: LUKEC on 02/11/2007 18:41:18 Originally by: DeadDuck The ships is now great. Extremelly good for NPC, fleet battle and close range. Best Amarr BS hands down. Yeh right. And die like sack of **** vs decent arma/abaddon Oh wait that rep bonus is so good ! oh wait 2 times... you can jam it with punisher with jammer :P
Perry Amarr The X-Trading Company Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.11.02 18:56:00 - [76] Originally by: Ma Raia'l * 5% bonus to capacitor capacity per Amarr BS level * 5% bonus to large energy turret damage per Amarr BS level * 5% bonus to armor resistance per Marauder level * 7.5% bonus to large energy turret tracking per Marauder level this ________________ Rev 3 Patchnotes: Amarr Oompf! -Apocalypse is no longer the worst Battleship! Paladin is. -Redeemer costs 1b isk and cant cloak! -Devoter brings more fail to Amarr Cruisers
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.02 19:14:00 - [77] Considering price... I dont really know what i'd like. Apart from maybe caps going into deadspace again
DeadDuck Amarr Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.02 19:29:00 - [78] Originally by: LUKEC Edited by: LUKEC on 02/11/2007 18:41:18 Originally by: DeadDuck The ships is now great. Extremelly good for NPC, fleet battle and close range. Best Amarr BS hands down. Yeh right. And die like sack of **** vs decent arma/abaddon Oh wait that rep bonus is so good ! oh wait 2 times... you can jam it with punisher with jammer :P well try use a eccm + cap booster + neutralizers and you will see what happens to abaddon
Sevis	Posted - 2007.11.02 19:39:00 - [79] I'm not sure that the 5% cap size per level should be a given and I want to look into it. The 10% laser cap use per level is competative in a lot of situations. The downside is that it only works when you're running guns. Personally, I've never had a problem with cap when I wasn't running guns, so that advantage should be mostly moot. I'll demonstrate using Energy Management V,Energy Systems Operation V, and Controlled Bursts V. All are reasonable for a long term Amarr pilot. Also, they don't help my point. The difference would be more exaggerated in my favor if I didn't include the skills. (I estimated the the peak recharge of the Paladin with 2.39 x average recharge. It seems like it should be somewhere between 2.38 and 2.40cps, but I didn't work the full equation. You'll get the idea even with this margin of error.) Paladin cap size (no skills,no bonus): 5625 Paladin cap size (skills, no bonus): 7031.25 Paladin cap size (skills, bonus): 8789.1 Paladin recharge time (no skills): 923.9 Paladin recharge time (skills): 692.925 Paladin peak recharge (skills, no bonus): 24.3 Paladin peak recharge (skills, bonus): 30.2 Paladin peak recharge (skills, no bonus, 2x Cap recharger II): 38 Paladin peak recharge (skills, bonus, 2x Cap recharger II): 47.2 For reference: Apoc peak recharge with all skills at 5 = 26 (Yes, the Paladin has more cap/second than the Apoc.) 5% Cap size bonus @ L5 w/ Tachs & Multifreq 4xT2 Tachs, no bonus = -22.8 Net cap recharge (bonus, no rechargers) = 7.4 Net cap recharge (bonus, 2x Cap Recharger II) = 24.4 10% cap use per level @L5 w/ Tachs & Multifreq 4xT2 Tachs = -11.4 Net cap recharge (no bonus, no rechargers) = 12.9 Net cap recharge (no bonus, 2x Cap Recharger II) = 26.6 5% Cap size bonus @ L5 w/ Tachs & Radio 4xT2 Tachs = -19.4 Net cap recharge (bonus, no rechargers) = 10.8 Net cap recharge (bonus, 2x Cap Recharger II) = 27.8 10% cap use per level @L5 w/ Tachs & Radio 4xT2 Tachs = -9.7 Net cap recharge (no bonus, no rechargers)= 14.6 Net cap recharge (no bonus, 2x Cap Recharger II) = 28.3 5% Cap size bonus @ L5 w/ Pulses & Multifreq 4xT2 Megapulse = -15.2 Net cap recharge (bonus, no rechargers) = 15 Net cap recharge (bonus, 2x Cap Recharger II) = 32 10% cap use per level @L5 w/ Pulses & Multifreq 4xT2 Megapulse = -7.6 Net cap recharge (no bonus, no rechargers) = 16.7 Net cap recharge (no bonus, 2x Cap Recharger II) = 30.4 5% Cap size bonus @ L5 w/ Pulses & Radio 4xT2 Megapulse = -13 Net cap recharge (bonus, no rechargers)= 17.2 Net cap recharge (bonus, 2x Cap Recharger II) = 34.2 10% cap use per level @L5 w/ Pulses & Radio 4xT2 Megapulse = 6.5 Net cap recharge (no bonus, no rechargers) = 17.8 Net cap recharge (no bonus, 2x Cap Recharger II) = 31.5 So, the 5% cap size per level bonus is better once you fit greater than 2 cap recharge mods or when you're primarily in situations where your tank is on but your guns are off. The 10% cap use per level bonus is better with less than 2 cap recharge mods or when using high cap use guns most of the time. If you plan to fit boosters, the 10% laser cap use bonus is probably better, but its all kinda moot after you go to boosters since Cargo capactity matters so much more. All in all, the 5% cap size per level bonus is probably slightly better. But not by a whole lot, and there situations where it is not.
Myra2007	Posted - 2007.11.02 19:41:00 - [80] I am pleased. Good one ccp.
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.02 19:51:00 - [81] Originally by: DeadDuck Originally by: LUKEC Edited by: LUKEC on 02/11/2007 18:41:18 Originally by: DeadDuck The ships is now great. Extremelly good for NPC, fleet battle and close range. Best Amarr BS hands down. Yeh right. And die like sack of **** vs decent arma/abaddon Oh wait that rep bonus is so good ! oh wait 2 times... you can jam it with punisher with jammer :P well try use a eccm + cap booster + neutralizers and you will see what happens to abaddon You don't have 50% chance to be jammed by ... dominix :p
Udyr Vulpayne Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.02 22:51:00 - [82] Originally by: Ma Raia'l So it would look like: * 5% bonus to capacitor capacity per Amarr BS level * 5% bonus to large energy turret damage per Amarr BS level * 5% bonus to armor resistance per Marauder level * 7.5% bonus to large energy turret tracking per Marauder level this would still be a lot better than what is on sisi now. theres really no reason to have a web effectiveness bonus on a laser boats. especially on a bs where you have drones to deal with any frigs that get too close. as it stands now i would propably fit a cap recharger II instead of the webber and waste the bonus but have get better overall performance.
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.02 23:21:00 - [83] Originally by: Ma Raia'l * 5% bonus to capacitor capacity per Amarr BS level * 5% bonus to large energy turret damage per Amarr BS level * 5% bonus to armor resistance per Marauder level * 7.5% bonus to large energy turret tracking per Marauder level You know where the irony lies in this proposed change? Its an abaddon. Abaddon with tracking and cap. But it is NOT an apoc. Ergo: apoc = sucks.
Dammar Amarr Ephorate	Posted - 2007.11.02 23:22:00 - [84] Bonuses are win currently...now just a tad more dronebay m3's. :P
Caya Amarr Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.11.02 23:59:00 - [85] Originally by: Ma Raia'l MUCH BETTER, but the web and repair bonuses are still so.. non-Amarrian. I would expect the web bonus on the Minmatar ship, the rep amount on the Gallante. It's not just the Paladin though; it seems the devs went crazy on the bonuses, throwing whatever they felt like on random ships with no regard to the typical racial trends. Pre-boost The Paladin had a web bonus AND a tracking bonus, when only one is needed. Now that tracking bonus is a damage bonus, but I think that the Paladin should have retained the tracking bonus, and the web bonus replaced instead. As well as the rep repair amount changed to a 5% resistance per level bonus. For being a Carthum ship, the Paladin's bonuses don't really reflect that. So it would look like: * 5% bonus to capacitor capacity per Amarr BS level * 5% bonus to large energy turret damage per Amarr BS level * 5% bonus to armor resistance per Marauder level * 7.5% bonus to large energy turret tracking per Marauder level This man speaks the truth.
FawKa Gallente x13	Posted - 2007.11.03 00:03:00 - [86] Originally by: NoNah 10 turrets(with the 50% cap use built in), 37.5% more tank, 25% more cap, and a 99% web, I do believe this is a ship I'll fly. I just wonder how much that 25% CAP really gives you PVP wise anyways. Seems like these ships can store 100 freaking 800 charges anyways. From my point of view the bonus is still wasted. The general "oh its a tanker, therefor it got more cap" just fails with the cargo tbh and yes, I do fly amarr
Kazuma Saruwatari	Posted - 2007.11.03 00:23:00 - [87] Originally by: Ma Raia'l MUCH BETTER, but the web and repair bonuses are still so.. non-Amarrian. I would expect the web bonus on the Minmatar ship, the rep amount on the Gallante. It's not just the Paladin though; it seems the devs went crazy on the bonuses, throwing whatever they felt like on random ships with no regard to the typical racial trends. Pre-boost The Paladin had a web bonus AND a tracking bonus, when only one is needed. Now that tracking bonus is a damage bonus, but I think that the Paladin should have retained the tracking bonus, and the web bonus replaced instead. As well as the rep repair amount changed to a 5% resistance per level bonus. For being a Carthum ship, the Paladin's bonuses don't really reflect that. So it would look like: * 5% bonus to capacitor capacity per Amarr BS level * 5% bonus to large energy turret damage per Amarr BS level * 5% bonus to armor resistance per Marauder level * 7.5% bonus to large energy turret tracking per Marauder level This, CCP. You took the first step, now take the next one. Oh, dont forget the Apoc too! - Odd Pod Out, a blog of EVE Online
Sevis	Posted - 2007.11.03 03:31:00 - [88] I'd take a 20% per level bonus to the effectiveness of tracking computer mods over the web effectiveness bonus.
Markus Aurelian	Posted - 2007.11.03 04:49:00 - [89] Originally by: Forkrul * 10% bonus to Large Energy Turret rate of fire per Amarr BS level * 10% bonus to Large Energy Turret rate of fire per Marauder level WIN! ONOEZ WHERED MY CAP GO Meatwad FTW
Forkrul	Posted - 2007.11.03 04:50:00 - [90] It all went KABLAAMO on your enemies and made them go.... kablaamo....

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