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Lithel
Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.02 14:35:00 -
[31]
Originally by: NoNah 10 turrets(with the 50% cap use built in), 37.5% more tank, 25% more cap, and a 99% web, I do believe this is a ship I'll fly.
Wait wait wait, 10 turrets ??? - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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Shevar
Minmatar A.W.M Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.11.02 14:36:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Shevar on 02/11/2007 14:36:59
Originally by: Cleron Another damage clone, that's all we need. Why would i buy this ship when i can grab a Geddon stick a few rigs in it for less then a T2 BS and go kick some ass or hop in an Abaddon ?
Cap bonus dose not address the weapon cap issue. 10% weapon cap reduction is required even hear. The Web bonus we have talked about before, it must be range or bust, better off with tracking other wise. Hell i'd still like a 10% armor bonus over the damage (or web).
Over all it won't be a bad mission runner... good luck finding one used in PVP though.
It has the 50% cap reduction of lasers already built in and with the 25% cap capacity bonus the last problem the paladin has is cap.
And quite frankly none of the t2 battleships will see extensive PvP action in their current state just as faction BS's don't see a lot of action.
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Wait wait wait, 10 turrets ???
4 turrets 100% dmg bonus is 8 turrets, 25% extra from marauders level5 means that it's comparable to having an apoc with 10 turretslots. ---
-The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs |
Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.11.02 14:36:00 -
[33]
Looking at marauders as a whole, it's pretty obvious that being able to kill npc frigs with BS-sized weapons is one of their design points. The web efficiency bonus is better than a web range bonus. That way, you can fit a domination web and have both. And before you complain about the module cost, it's a 1B ship... ------------------------------------------
What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs. |
Vasq
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2007.11.02 14:36:00 -
[34]
so it now has a dmg bonus on top of the built in dmg bonus!
i'm not suprised all the amarr pilots are pleased with it, as it will be by far the most powerfull ranged ship of the new class
CCP really does fall prey to the forum whiners
Smoke me a kipper, i'll be back for breakfast! |
Aya Otosaki
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Posted - 2007.11.02 14:38:00 -
[35]
well i for one love this change, its much more than i ever expected. ----- Ignorance is my strength. |
Aya Otosaki
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Posted - 2007.11.02 14:41:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Vasq so it now has a dmg bonus on top of the built in dmg bonus!
i'm not suprised all the amarr pilots are pleased with it, as it will be by far the most powerfull ranged ship of the new class
CCP really does fall prey to the forum whiners
yes they totally cave in, amarr have been whining for years just for you information. ----- Ignorance is my strength. |
Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.11.02 14:42:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Vasq i'm not suprised all the amarr pilots are pleased with it, as it will be by far the most powerfull ranged ship of the new class
How so? The Kronos gets a damage bonus AND a tracking bonus. How is that less powerful than a Paladin?
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Alyxa Mahan
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Posted - 2007.11.02 14:49:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Shadowsword Looking at marauders as a whole, it's pretty obvious that being able to kill npc frigs with BS-sized weapons is one of their design points.
I carry drones for that job.
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Mamarto
Minmatar Dead Pirates' Society
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Posted - 2007.11.02 14:50:00 -
[39]
What rank is the new Marauder skill? And is it Will/Per or Per/Will?
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Dammar
Amarr Ephorate
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Posted - 2007.11.02 14:51:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Mamarto What rank is the new Marauder skill? And is it Will/Per or Per/Will?
Rank 10, Will/Per.
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Kruel
Blunt Force Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.11.02 14:58:00 -
[41]
I don't understand why they took out the tracking bonus and left in the web strength bonus. I'm still glad for the extra damage, but come on, web strength bonus???
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Susan Acid
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.11.02 15:03:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Susan Acid on 02/11/2007 15:03:40 Bookmarking this thread for 12 months time when the Ship is hit with the Nerf Bat.
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Mamarto
Minmatar Dead Pirates' Society
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Posted - 2007.11.02 15:04:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Mamarto on 02/11/2007 15:03:42
Originally by: Dammar
Originally by: Mamarto What rank is the new Marauder skill? And is it Will/Per or Per/Will?
Rank 10, Will/Per.
Oh bugger, we'll see the first pure Amarr with Marauder 5 after about a day then.
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Deschenus Maximus
Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2007.11.02 15:22:00 -
[44]
Would have made a whole lot more sense to have replaced the web bonus. Not very likely anyone's going to train Marauders to lvl 5, so an Abaddon is still going to be better for missions (assuming you currently don't have trouble tanking lvl 4s with it).
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Lithalnas
Amarr Headcrabs
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Posted - 2007.11.02 15:25:00 -
[45]
giveing up the web bonus for a resist bonus would make it too powerful. -------------
fixed for greater eve content |
Garia666
Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
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Posted - 2007.11.02 15:35:00 -
[46]
Is this the ooohmp we where waiting for? it looks promising.. However the ships will be very expensive.
->My Vids<- |
Markus Aurelian
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Posted - 2007.11.02 15:40:00 -
[47]
so its an abaddon with a web bonus and an active tank bonus instead of resists? no thanks. the abaddon's cap problems in pve are not that bad. the web bonus is still garbage, no amarr pve'er who knows wtf he's doing will ever fit a web, and resistance bonus > rep amount bonus. at least its not the laughingstock of the marauders, but its still not really a worthwhile alternative to the t1 options available to amarr pilots. Meatwad FTW |
eLLioTT wave
Art of War Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.11.02 15:47:00 -
[48]
I'll believe it when it's on TQ :P
But seriously CCP, this is not a T1 battleship. You say these ships are for PvE but Amarr will always suck vs anything but sansha's.
If you really want to make it a PvE ship then it will have to be khanid Mk2 theme. Missiles + drones are Amarr's only hope vs Angels/any other ship that's heavily tanked.
If you want the Paladin to be a laser boat then it MUST do more raw damage than any other maruader to have a hope in PvE. Maybe 5 turrets is a step in that direction (= 10 turrets) but still vs Angel rats I think a T1 raven will easily out damage still.
A PvE focused ship (not PvP as you said these are for PvE) would be: - Tiny capacitor with huge recharge (so it's easily sustainable, but very vulnerable to nos/neuts in pvp) - A huge bonus to AB (not MWD) - The tractor bonus you already have - Hac resists + % rep amount (these should easily out tank a faction fit t1 bs) - Low sensor strength which you already have (easy to jam in pvp but no difference to % based npc jam) - Tiny locking range ( but counter this by totally nurfing the Serpentis maximum damp)
This will make them fairly close range in keeping with the weapons they're designed to use (pulse lasers, AC projectiles, Blasters? lol, Torpedoes)
Maruaders are MASSIVELY skill intensive, MASSIVELY expensive PvE ships. Don't make them "a little bit better than T1/faction BS". Make them AWESOME! something to aspire to for mission runners.
PS I think these are awesome and if you don't comment on this soon I'm gonna copy it to a new thread! :P
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2007.11.02 16:00:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Seriously...anyone to get close enough to actually be caught by the web probably wants to be there anyway (read blaster boats) and they will kick the Paladin's ass at those ranges. Anything the Paladin would want to get close and catch with the web will almost certainly have zero problems staying away from the Paladin.
PvE, remember?
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Pulse are the least damaging close range weapon which is fine because they are the longest range/lowest tracking. The web bonus flies right in the face of that.
Still PvE.
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Also, the rep amount bonus should really be a resist bonus. Gallente traditionally have gotten the rep amount thing, Amarr being the "tank" race (supposedly) get the resist bonus. Seems to have worked ok so far with other ships. Don't see why the Paladin should be different.
Well, if you'd remember they're meant to be PvE boats, and not the new PvP subcapital flagship, you'd see why the bonus is not to resistance, and why the web bonus is sort of superfluos but still nice.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2007.11.02 16:08:00 -
[50]
Originally by: eLLioTT wave
- Tiny locking range ( but counter this by totally nurfing the Serpentis maximum damp)
This will make them fairly close range in keeping with the weapons they're designed to use (pulse lasers, AC projectiles, Blasters? lol, Torpedoes) [/b]
WTH! Screw that. The longer the locking range the better. I don't need to lock 12 targets, but a 100km base locking range would be great. Even if you use Pulse, you still need to agress those faraway rats, so they come to you.
Anyway, it seems to me Pulse outdamage Beams only at 20km or less. I don't care if takes officer RCU's, no way I'd fit one of these with anything less then Faction Beams.
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Sevis
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Posted - 2007.11.02 16:12:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Sevis on 02/11/2007 16:14:44
Any change to the fitting stats?
Also, what does the default cap size and recharge on this ship? It has to be as big as an Apoc's for the 10% cap use / level bonus to truly be built in.
Also, the 10% cap use per level generates more cap on most ships than the 5% cap size per level.
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Mastin Dragonfly
Absolutely No Retreat The Red Skull
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Posted - 2007.11.02 16:21:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 02/11/2007 13:53:48 Bah wtf... This is sooo dumb. They remove the only useful bonus it had and keep the three crappy ones? That way it still don't have anything that makes it worth it over the Abaddon. The tank and cap bonuses are superfluous, I can tank and gank fine in an Abaddon already, and the web bonus is downright silly. While the tracking bonus, especially in light of the TC nerf on Sisi, was its only redeeming factor. It needs both tracking and damage, and it does not need either cap or web or rep.
Oh well, guess that means I will be stuck with getting one of those new Nightmares to complement my Kronos.
Agreed, and having to train a rank 10 skill to lvl 5 just to break even with the Abaddon is teh suck.
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.11.02 16:22:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Qui Shon
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Seriously...anyone to get close enough to actually be caught by the web probably wants to be there anyway (read blaster boats) and they will kick the Paladin's ass at those ranges. Anything the Paladin would want to get close and catch with the web will almost certainly have zero problems staying away from the Paladin.
PvE, remember?
So you expect a Paladin to chase rats around a mission area to get within 10km why? And that will help the Paladin in PvE how? If it gets that close a regular web is more than sufficient. Hardly a need for a bonus particularly when you DO NOT want to get below 10km ranges.
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Pulse are the least damaging close range weapon which is fine because they are the longest range/lowest tracking. The web bonus flies right in the face of that.
Still PvE.
Read worst tracking short range weapon system. Why would the Paladin WANT to get targets sub 10km? Ok, so now it has webbed them and tracking may be less an issue. Frankly a normal web generally suffices anyway and the Paladin would still be better off keeping the rats at 20km ranges.
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Also, the rep amount bonus should really be a resist bonus. Gallente traditionally have gotten the rep amount thing, Amarr being the "tank" race (supposedly) get the resist bonus. Seems to have worked ok so far with other ships. Don't see why the Paladin should be different.
Well, if you'd remember they're meant to be PvE boats, and not the new PvP subcapital flagship, you'd see why the bonus is not to resistance, and why the web bonus is sort of superfluos but still nice.
It goes to overall design philosophy. Some say resist bonus is > rep bonus. Maybe but then this has been done this way awhile and has worked fine (Amarr getting a resist bonus). It would not make the Paladin an uber PvPer. As noted these are meant to be PvE and are not substantially better enough to risk in PvP (although the Vargur might make a good sniper). The Paladin should have some things to set it apart.
And the web bonus is just pure crap.
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Mastin Dragonfly
Absolutely No Retreat The Red Skull
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Posted - 2007.11.02 16:29:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Mastin Dragonfly on 02/11/2007 16:29:20 Actually, for PvE (missions that is) the web and tracking bonus might have been worthwhile cause it would allow you to fit beams and still be able to hit those pesky NPCs that do get close, you can't always avoid it. But alas...
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Kruel
Blunt Force Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.11.02 16:41:00 -
[55]
I would've rather had the rep amount bonus changed to a resistance bonus, and the web bonus changed to damage or optimal. Taking out the tracking bonus sucks, cuz it might've made beams worth using in PVE.
The web bonus is almost completely useless on this ship.
At least CCP are doing something though. I might actually fly this ship now, if for nothing else than running lvl4s.
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queen1121
Empire Dreams
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Posted - 2007.11.02 16:41:00 -
[56]
My pve d1ck is longer than yours !
All I can say at these marauder threads is wtflol. 800mil for ship and 100mil for t2 setup or 100mil for ship and 500 mil for setup? Which one will be better at the end without "kill me" written on it
Imo the whole idea of pve bs hull is like ... wrong? Please make sure you make them unscrambable, immune to EW and not bumpable so carebears can gather isk with no risk.
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Veng3ance
Prophets Of a Damned Universe
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Posted - 2007.11.02 16:42:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Shevar Edited by: Shevar on 02/11/2007 14:16:55
Originally by: Acoco Osiris Is this a whole new bonus or did they switch one?
But IMO, a needed change.
Old situation;
* 5% bonus to capacitor capacity per Amarr BS level * 2% bonus to stasis webifier velocity factor per Amarr BS level * 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per Marauder level * 7.5% bonus to large energy turret tracking per Marauder level
I'll take 5% damage over tracking any day of the week. That being said I would have prefered to get rid of either web strenght or cap capacity instead of the tracking bonus.
But meh can't have it all .
Indeed! Nerf the webbing bonus! Give us Falloff or tracking.
Either way! Nice change, thanks guys.
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eLLioTT wave
Art of War Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.11.02 16:45:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Qui Shon
Originally by: eLLioTT wave
- Tiny locking range ( but counter this by totally nurfing the Serpentis maximum damp)
This will make them fairly close range in keeping with the weapons they're designed to use (pulse lasers, AC projectiles, Blasters? lol, Torpedoes) [/b]
WTH! Screw that. The longer the locking range the better. I don't need to lock 12 targets, but a 100km base locking range would be great. Even if you use Pulse, you still need to agress those faraway rats, so they come to you.
Anyway, it seems to me Pulse outdamage Beams only at 20km or less. I don't care if takes officer RCU's, no way I'd fit one of these with anything less then Faction Beams.
You fail to see the design of these ships. It is for close range, hence if you'd have read my other points you would see AB bonus. Perhaps make AB half an MWD for these ships. Then you could get into range a lot quicker. If this isn't done they may be turned into OP sniper ships. This is CCP's design for Marauders, like it or not they are not meant to be sniper pvp ships.
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Kadoes Khan
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Posted - 2007.11.02 16:53:00 -
[59]
Quote:
If you really want to make it a PvE ship then it will have to be khanid Mk2 theme. Missiles + drones are Amarr's only hope vs Angels/any other ship that's heavily tanked.
Yes please! ^_^ -=^=- "Someday the world will recognize the genius in my insanity." |
Mrski Okupator
Amarr The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.11.02 17:08:00 -
[60]
Good.
Now unnerf the Kronos. ___ Apocalypse Mining. Mine your way to heaven.
What playing Amarr feels like. Shamelessly snatched from Almarez. |
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