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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
TheSmokingHertog
TALIBAN EXPRESS
138
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Posted - 2013.09.09 10:45:00 -
[121] - Quote
Denis Seegulls wrote:So, I'm somewhat new at this economy end since I went from warfare to manufacturing. I am a bit misconstrued at the mechanics. Manufacturing something, in theory, is supposed to be cheaper than what is readily available correct?
If so then here is my question. I have sat for about one hour creating spreadsheets from blueprints on various items in this format: Item Lowest Market Value Amount(adding how much I need multiplied to lowest market value).
--Now that I think about it, I should probably estimate it to a median price, but nevertheless--
The value on manufacturing is highly overpriced in relation to readily available goods. For example, according to my skills, to make Tungsten Charge L (x100) it costs me 24,019.35 ISK. Whereas actual market value to lowest seller is only 4850 ISK per 100.
I don't get it, out of 13 spreadsheets I have made, only 4 have profit, and not by a lot by any means, I would be only making barley 1% in return.
Besides the answers above, dont forget about speculation and dumping. People who build stacks in low markets will dump in high markets. But dumping can be a slow proces, some products have months to years of stocks in some peoples hangers (see the Economy talk from Fanfest 2013). |
Vandervecken Smith
Just Exploit
0
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Posted - 2013.10.27 16:51:00 -
[122] - Quote
What's the best way to sell a few rigged capitals I have lying around? Contracts? Sell Orders forum? |
Amarr Citizen 155
Nordar Innovations.
22
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Posted - 2013.11.05 05:47:00 -
[123] - Quote
Vandervecken Smith wrote:What's the best way to sell a few rigged capitals I have lying around? Contracts? Sell Orders forum? Both good ideas, but I would also try the "Ships" ingame channel. Between the Sell Orders forum and the Ships channel you should be able to get it done fairly quickly/easily. |
Red Serenity
Hide From The Tax Man
1
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Posted - 2013.11.10 16:57:00 -
[124] - Quote
What would it take to be able to save a route, so I do not have to input a 100+ systems every time I want to pick up buy orders? |
Red Serenity
Hide From The Tax Man
1
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Posted - 2013.11.11 09:11:00 -
[125] - Quote
Also, an option to edit contracts would be amazing too, rather than having to cancel and redo. |
TheSmokingHertog
TALIBAN EXPRESS
158
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Posted - 2013.11.11 23:39:00 -
[126] - Quote
Post those ideas in Little Things thread in General forums, it helps, sometimes ;) |
Jinxy Ormand
Starfield Industries Ltd. Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
0
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Posted - 2013.11.21 02:45:00 -
[127] - Quote
Rhivre wrote:"When you buy an item in the market, you can pay more than the lowest bidder but it still sells goods from the lowest seller's stock. CCP just basically takes the extra ISK you paid and no one gets it. "
is incorrect.
If you want to pay 100m for a rifter, it gives me the 100m, if mine is the top sell order.
"When selling. You enter a selling price below the lowest bid. The highest bid gets your items at the cost they bid, but you are still only given whatever you bid for the item."
If you sell to me a rifter for 10 isk, it takes 10 isk from me, and gives you a rifter.
So, CCP are not taking anything apart from the fees.
I have had several run-ins with this mechanic, and the latest cost me 500 million isk for a T2 800mm armor plate. I get the broker side of things and how all sales are indirect, but there are not enough tools for a trader to protect themselves from simple mistakes. I updated a buy order that started at 500k and I was trying to add 1 isk to it. I got the decimal out of place and I updated the order to 500 million by accident. Woosh! 500 million gone from the wallet. Thankfully there was only 1 item left on the order so I didn't wind up paying 500 million each for many of them. That could have wiped me out.
There should be more control over these indirect transactions such as stop loss orders. There should be options for things like "cancel trade if buy order exceeds any in-range sell order. We need tools to help us prevent serious losses over simple typos. For toons that have hundreds of orders outstanding, this has got to be a significant pain point. |
Drab Cane
Carbenadium Industries
7
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Posted - 2013.11.27 11:37:00 -
[128] - Quote
Regarding the issue with editing a buy order by a small amount, try the following to avoid errors:
1) if you have a scroll wheel on your mouse, you can easily adjust the amount by 0.01 ISK. Click in the amount field to move the cursor there. Then use the scroll wheel to increase or decrease the price by 0.01 ISK per 'click' of the wheel.
2) Always press the Tab key after editing a price. The field will fill in the commas and periods (depending on your computer settings) so you can easily confirm whether you're buying the item for 500 million, or 50 billion. Click back into the price field if you need to edit. |
Illusive Man Cerberas
Cerberas Industries
0
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Posted - 2013.12.09 20:39:00 -
[129] - Quote
Is there a way to set up my market overview so that it shows only the amount products being sold in that given station or solar system, not the whole region? Iv pushed everyone button, changed my filters all around and can seem to figure it out. An example would be that I want to look up how much trit moves through this one station in a given day. No matter what I filter it shows the amount of what I am assuming is region. |
Samroski
Games Inc. The Night Crew Alliance
407
|
Posted - 2013.12.10 05:06:00 -
[130] - Quote
Illusive Man Cerberas wrote:Is there a way to set up my market overview so that it shows only the amount products being sold in that given station or solar system, not the whole region? Iv pushed everyone button, changed my filters all around and can seem to figure it out. An example would be that I want to look up how much trit moves through this one station in a given day. No matter what I filter it shows the amount of what I am assuming is region. afaik there is no way to do what you want to in-game. You could try doing it manually, or there may be a utility/app that lets you do it. In fact there may be a market for an app that does what you want to, as this question keeps cropping up in MD. Any colour you like. |
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Rhivre
TarNec Invisible Exchequer
648
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Posted - 2013.12.10 21:17:00 -
[131] - Quote
Illusive Man Cerberas wrote:Is there a way to set up my market overview so that it shows only the amount products being sold in that given station or solar system, not the whole region? Iv pushed everyone button, changed my filters all around and can seem to figure it out. An example would be that I want to look up how much trit moves through this one station in a given day. No matter what I filter it shows the amount of what I am assuming is region.
No, there isnt a way.
The only way to do it is check the high and low price against the hub.
There are out of game tools that do show this, Eve-Market data has this functionality EMD site link and I expect other markety sites do too. Fluffy Bunny Pic! |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
1690
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 00:02:00 -
[132] - Quote
Jinxy Ormand wrote:Rhivre wrote:"When you buy an item in the market, you can pay more than the lowest bidder but it still sells goods from the lowest seller's stock. CCP just basically takes the extra ISK you paid and no one gets it. "
is incorrect.
If you want to pay 100m for a rifter, it gives me the 100m, if mine is the top sell order.
"When selling. You enter a selling price below the lowest bid. The highest bid gets your items at the cost they bid, but you are still only given whatever you bid for the item."
If you sell to me a rifter for 10 isk, it takes 10 isk from me, and gives you a rifter.
So, CCP are not taking anything apart from the fees. I have had several run-ins with this mechanic, and the latest cost me 500 million isk for a T2 800mm armor plate. I get the broker side of things and how all sales are indirect, but there are not enough tools for a trader to protect themselves from simple mistakes. I updated a buy order that started at 500k and I was trying to add 1 isk to it. I got the decimal out of place and I updated the order to 500 million by accident. Woosh! 500 million gone from the wallet. Thankfully there was only 1 item left on the order so I didn't wind up paying 500 million each for many of them. That could have wiped me out. There should be more control over these indirect transactions such as stop loss orders. There should be options for things like "cancel trade if buy order exceeds any in-range sell order. We need tools to help us prevent serious losses over simple typos. For toons that have hundreds of orders outstanding, this has got to be a significant pain point.
You know that little message that pops up asking you "Are you really, really sure you want to pay 885% above regional market average for this item"?
That message is your friend. An annoying but loyal friend, that shouts out warnings every time you cross a street, but a friend that is loyal and always there for you when you might make a mistake.
Just yesterday it saved me from accidentally listing five Oneiros hulls at 17.8 million ISK each, which would have been a somewhat expensive error.
As for why the market works the way it does - it's an anti-RMT feature. If an RMT seller instructs someone 'Give me RL cash, then go to station X, and set a sell order to sell 1 Tritanium for 4 billion ISK, and I'll buy it', this feature ensures that the RMT seller can be disrupted by someone else getting there and posting 100000 Trit at 10000 ISK/unit. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. An enemy is just a friend that you stab in the front. |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
440
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Posted - 2014.02.05 23:24:00 -
[133] - Quote
I'm trying to understand the relation between sell orders and buy orders. Obviously I get what they both do, but in certain situations I don't understand why one would sell to buy orders to begin with?
Take Jita for instance. It's easy to set up a buy order for minerals there and have it filled in a matter of minutes (sometimes even seconds) if you are the highest bidder. I generally attribute this to people not caring about the price they get and just hit sell.
But apparently the same thing happens with T2 materials (moon goo products) and the people producing these things generally do not blindly hit sell.
So what is the reasoning for selling to a buy order when you can list the product as a sell order at a much higher price and still have a guaranteed sale?
Can someone explain how these two types of orders co-exist and why someone would choose on over the other? My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
Samroski
Games Inc. The Night Crew Alliance
427
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 12:28:00 -
[134] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:I'm trying to understand the relation between sell orders and buy orders. Obviously I get what they both do, but in certain situations I don't understand why one would sell to buy orders to begin with?
Take Jita for instance. It's easy to set up a buy order for minerals there and have it filled in a matter of minutes (sometimes even seconds) if you are the highest bidder. I generally attribute this to people not caring about the price they get and just hit sell.
But apparently the same thing happens with T2 materials (moon goo products) and the people producing these things generally do not blindly hit sell.
So what is the reasoning for selling to a buy order when you can list the product as a sell order at a much higher price and still have a guaranteed sale?
Can someone explain how these two types of orders co-exist and why someone would choose on over the other? Just a few situations where I would sell to buy orders: 1. Someone undercuts my sell order every minute, and I do not have the patience/time/inclination to do pvp. 2. I have large units of the item to sell, and it would take ages for the all the units to sell, and I need the money now to buy the materials I need for my next manufacturing binge. Thus I dump on sell orders. 3. I want to crash the market, and I dump 20 zillion units on buy orders. 4. I have not trained trade skills, and do not have slots to place sell order/s, and the taxes are such for me, and the difference in buy/sell orders such that it makes little sense to sell using sell orders 5. I do not know that items sell pretty quickly using sell orders at Jita, thus in my ignorance I dump of buy orders. 6. I just have one fricking unit to sell. The hell with setting up a sell order.
The exact opposite holds true for buying using buy orders. A large majority of casual eve players buy stuff off sell orders. Whereas if they had patience they could set up buy orders and get it cheaper, but hey this is eve. People will pay double the price if you make the item available to players where they need it. Any colour you like. |
Bashan Amphal
Feral Solutions Inc The Autonomy
0
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Posted - 2014.03.03 20:48:00 -
[135] - Quote
Samroski wrote:TigerXtrm wrote: Can someone explain how these two types of orders co-exist and why someone would choose on over the other?
Just a few situations where I would sell to buy orders: 1. Someone undercuts my sell order every minute, and I do not have the patience/time/inclination to do pvp. 2. I have large units of the item to sell, and it would take ages for the all the units to sell, and I need the money now to buy the materials I need for my next manufacturing binge. Thus I dump on sell orders. 3. I want to crash the market, and I dump 20 zillion units on buy orders. 4. I have not trained trade skills, and do not have slots to place sell order/s, and the taxes are such for me, and the difference in buy/sell orders such that it makes little sense to sell using sell orders 5. I do not know that items sell pretty quickly using sell orders at Jita, thus in my ignorance I dump on buy orders. 6. I just have one fricking unit to sell. The hell with setting up a sell order. 7. Edit: My manufacturing cost is so low (I get the minerals free by mining 24/7) that I make a huge 'profit' selling to buy orders. Screw setting up a sell order.
What you have just described is the service that traders provide to you: liquidity.
For a lower price than what you would get if you put up a sell-order, selling to a buy order gives you isk instantly. It is then up to the trader to translate that into a sell-order with a little bit of something added on top.
I'll scratch your back, if you scratch mine, basically. :) |
Kudos12345
Republic University Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2014.03.15 11:15:00 -
[136] - Quote
How do i raise a successful loan on these forums?
edit: What does the community require?
API keys? Forum Post? asking for isk and thats it? |
Samroski
Games Inc. The Night Crew Alliance
449
|
Posted - 2014.03.15 13:07:00 -
[137] - Quote
Kudos12345 wrote:How do i raise a successful loan on these forums?
edit: What does the community require?
API keys? Forum Post? asking for isk and thats it? In one word: Collateral.
Reputation, API keys (audit) and a good business plan helps, but gone are the days of uncollateralized loans (this used to happen a lot on the old forums, and then there were a series of large and small scams which put an end to the good times).
So have some collateral ready, valued at 110% of the required loan (use Evepraisal), and you'll get yourself a loan in a few minutes. Offer 3% interest.
Any colour you like. |
Kudos12345
Republic University Minmatar Republic
7
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Posted - 2014.03.15 13:22:00 -
[138] - Quote
Samroski wrote:Kudos12345 wrote:How do i raise a successful loan on these forums?
edit: What does the community require?
API keys? Forum Post? asking for isk and thats it? In one word: Collateral. Reputation, API keys (audit) and a good business plan helps, but gone are the days of uncollateralized loans (this used to happen a lot on the old forums, and then there were a series of large and small scams which put an end to the good times). So have some collateral ready, valued at 110% of the required loan (use Evepraisal), and you'll get yourself a loan in a few minutes. Offer 3% interest.
Cool man thanks for the info, that makes more sense now. |
Slemtiger
Legion Of Spork
2
|
Posted - 2014.03.15 15:22:00 -
[139] - Quote
As far as i know, sales tax can be as low as 0,75%, but what about the brokers fee? |
Samroski
Games Inc. The Night Crew Alliance
449
|
Posted - 2014.03.15 16:21:00 -
[140] - Quote
Slemtiger wrote:As far as i know, sales tax can be as low as 0,75%, but what about the brokers fee? afaik, base broker fee may also be as low as 0.75% of sales value.
For the entire formula see this
Any colour you like. |
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MyLittleP0ny
LDK Sorry We're In Your Space Eh
1
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 09:08:00 -
[141] - Quote
I got a question...lets say im buying something for 130k thats with 13% margin and some one steps in and rises buy price by 2k so that changes margin for 10% profit. So i just cant understand why do they do this i will outbid him no mather how high he will rise the price |
Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
67
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 11:06:00 -
[142] - Quote
MyLittleP0ny wrote:So i just cant understand why do they do this i will outbid him no mather how high he will rise the price
And he will just do the same, so that answers your "why does he do this?" He experienced the same when you put up your buy order at 130k. He though "I had it at 15% margin, why does someone raise it to 130k? I'll outbid him no matter what ..." EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager. |
Samroski
Games Inc. The Night Crew Alliance
451
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 13:30:00 -
[143] - Quote
Hel O'Ween wrote:MyLittleP0ny wrote:So i just cant understand why do they do this i will outbid him no mather how high he will rise the price And he will just do the same, so that answers your "why does he do this?" He experienced the same when you put up your buy order at 130k. He though "I had it at 15% margin, why does someone raise it to 130k? I'll outbid him no matter what ..." This is market pvp. People will do strange things just to get you out of their market. Will even sustain losses for a while as long as they get rid of the competition.
Quote: i will outbid him no mather how high he will rise the price Not sure how long this will hold true... How about if he bids something nearly equal to sell order price? Will you still outbid him? Any colour you like. |
MyLittleP0ny
Corporate Scum Northern Associates.
2
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Posted - 2014.03.26 21:16:00 -
[144] - Quote
actually i crashed all of the orders to teach him there was like 60 of them an i rised every order to 0.7% margin... so now Neither I nor he will make isk |
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