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Colonel Branigain Midnight Suns	Posted - 2007.11.06 18:55:00 - [1] Okay, I've done some reading on the forums concerning the upcoming drone bandwidth thing. The following points seem to be in agreement by the majority of posters I've seen. 1. That drones will carry a bandwidth cost that will equal their size... 2. That you will still be able to field only (up to) 5 drones at a time... My question: Why put this in game? All it adds really is an additional mechanic to the game with no clear benefit. By way of example: I have one ship that has a 75m3 drone bay, and another that has 300m3... each can only field (up to) 5 drones at single time. Now lets say the bandwidth capabilities of ship 1 = 75, and the bandwidth of ship 2 = 125 (again hypothetical)... and each can still only field (up to) 5 drones. Why do we need extra game mechanic reinforcing drone use limitation? with a 75m3 drone bay that clearly limits your drone options alot more than with a drone heavy ship with a 300m3 drone bay. Currently I have an eos with a 300m3 drone bay.. I can field 5 heavy drones at once (which is the bulk of that ships dps)... however the real versatility comes from that ship's ability to carry alot of different drones and to launch drones appropriate to the situation. Whether I need an e-war drone, log drone, or simply different damage type drone, I can mix the drone load out, group the drones by forseen need, and deploy (again up to 5)... if the bandwidth only really limits what we can deploy from the drone bay why do we need the mechanic? When we are already limited to the ceiling of 5 drones it doesn't seem that we would need just another way of limitign how many drones can be deployed from amoung those you can carry. This is my opinion, any insights would be welcome because frankly I just don't see the point. Maybe I'm misinformed, or maybe I'm missing some important aspect I really should see after 3 years of playing this game. We hate Mirph, its the kind of personal, deep down loathing that makes you pet your favorite gun and smile. Yes we hate Mirph, the kind of hate that keeps our lasers warm, and our railguns low on ammo
omiNATION Gallente Vanguard of the Ouroboros Nation	Posted - 2007.11.06 19:03:00 - [2] Now you can have a drone bay of 150m3 on a ship designed to field 75m3, so lets say you're using 3 ogres then someone brings a frigate. you swap it out for 5 warrior II, then maybe even switch them out for 5 medium armor repair to help a friend out... etc. Of course, it's actually a nerf since CCP didn't really increase the bays on any of the ships on SiSi, did they? [sig] EVE, basically an MMORPG with prison rules. [/sig]
Lienae	Posted - 2007.11.06 19:07:00 - [3] For example if your ship has a drone bay of 125m^3 you could control 5 heavy drones with no problems before trinity, but after patch if your ship gets a 50m^3 bandwitdh (still has a dronebay of 125m^3) you will be forced to use medium drones. As you can see this change will reduce the drone damage output of ships getting lower bandwitdh than their dronebay.
Compendium	Posted - 2007.11.06 19:09:00 - [4] Glad to see the Myrmidon nurfed in some way finally. About time the dps is lowered.
Formulka	Posted - 2007.11.07 10:17:00 - [5] Edited by: Formulka on 07/11/2007 10:17:15 Originally by: omiNATION Now you can have a drone bay of 150m3 on a ship designed to field 75m3, so lets say you're using 3 ogres then someone brings a frigate. you swap it out for 5 warrior II, then maybe even switch them out for 5 medium armor repair to help a friend out... etc. Of course, it's actually a nerf since CCP didn't really increase the bays on any of the ships on SiSi, did they? well the arbitrator and T2 versions got doubled dronebay to 150m3 (- 1/3 bandwith though, down to 50m3)
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2007.11.07 11:11:00 - [6] Myrmidon has received an additional 25m3 drone space (150m3 total) , but can only control 75m3. Arbitrator family is limited to medium drones but will have three sets of drones .. HUUUUGE versatility increase. Personally I think the idea of bandwidth is spot on. The notion of having large dronebays without turning a ship into nberwtfpwnage is well worth the adjustment needed by us. The SiSi stats are still very much in flux, just take the Eos' new tanking boost (midslot swapped for lowslot). Devs will have a much smoother balancing tool as well giving them more time to fix the broken stuff ... :)
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.07 11:34:00 - [7] I'm liking the change to the Arbitrator and its variants. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.11.07 11:53:00 - [8] I am happy with the new changes to drones, drone bandwidth and drone not recharging shields in the drone bay. Plus the smaller drone gui and new commands. What only concerns me is that for most ships, the drone bayS have not been increased. All that has been done for most ships is that their drone bandwidth equals their drone bay size. E.g. Bellicose 40m3, 40mbit That to me is kind of lame, now as this bandwidth idea is to allow you to have more spare drones but you can only field X amount of a certain sized drone then where are the drone bay increases, where's the 40m3:60mbit for a bellicose? or any other ship with drones. Note/ the bellicose was just an example as its the only ship I know the m3 & mbit of off the top of my head.
Mr Ignitious Gallente Kingpins	Posted - 2007.11.07 12:00:00 - [9] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Myrmidon has received an additional 25m3 drone space (150m3 total) , but can only control 75m3. Arbitrator family is limited to medium drones but will have three sets of drones .. HUUUUGE versatility increase. Personally I think the idea of bandwidth is spot on. The notion of having large dronebays without turning a ship into nberwtfpwnage is well worth the adjustment needed by us. The SiSi stats are still very much in flux, just take the Eos' new tanking boost (midslot swapped for lowslot). Devs will have a much smoother balancing tool as well giving them more time to fix the broken stuff ... :) yah i love this too, sure i cant field 5 heavies any more, but thats ok because i can carry A TON more... wait, what the deuce this is only room for 5 lightS??!?! omg... nono, it's a nerf alright...i suppose it was needed, but they didn't increase anything but the arbitrators.... if they are going to say they are MASSIVELY increasing drone bays then they shouldn't try and trick us like this...eos had it reduced which is just stupid. the only way i see this as actually increasing drone bay size is ratio wise, before i could only carry 1 wave of drones, NOW I CAN CARRY 3!!! ....of smaller types, which actually cost me more to have with me, i'm not happy with this at all. it would be ok if they actually increased the bay sizes by a significant amount and gave us some way to rep drones in bay or something because it costs me upwards of 10mil per wave of t2 hammerheads, they are not throw aways.
Constance Nobel	Posted - 2007.11.08 00:03:00 - [10] Thing is, that if this is just some sort of nerftastic idea.. then why not just lower the dronebay sizes of the individual ships instead of adding another mechanic for the game to track?
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2007.11.08 00:17:00 - [11] Originally by: Constance Nobel Thing is, that if this is just some sort of nerftastic idea.. then why not just lower the dronebay sizes of the individual ships instead of adding another mechanic for the game to track? So you want to nerf them even more? Sounds good to me
Bardi MecAuldnis Amarr Heretic Army	Posted - 2007.11.08 00:45:00 - [12] Originally by: Constance Nobel Thing is, that if this is just some sort of nerftastic idea.. then why not just lower the dronebay sizes of the individual ships instead of adding another mechanic for the game to track? Because this allow for more variations without having Curses running around with 5 Ogre II's --- Amarr/Caldari, and proud of it. Hey hey let's go kenka suru! Taisetsuna mono protect my balls! Boku ga warui so lets fighting! LET'S FIGHTING LOVE!!!
PathetiQ Gallente Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.11.08 01:42:00 - [13] Originally by: Compendium Glad to see the Myrmidon nurfed in some way finally. About time the dps is lowered. ahh comeon the damn drake overkill everything too! ;) ::Killing Space Monkey Since 1969::
Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2007.11.08 01:44:00 - [14] only ships that are affected by the bandwidth change in a negative fasion are: myrm: 75 m/bit (2 heabies, 2 mediums, 1 light max in space) but 25^3 more drone space. Eos: 75 m/bit (bay reduced through bonus change....but still quite large for waves of mediums) Ishkur 25 m/bit (only 5x lights now, no mixing in mediums) The ishkur change is meh...but really only because assault frigs suck, and this was one of the few good ones, mostly because of how drones work on it today. Myrm needed a nerf, We can argue if this was the right one or not, but it got the job done. Eos needed a nerf, only problem is is that it cannot fall back on its actual intended role, as it sucks horrible at it. At least its no longer better than the Astarte at the Astarte's role. arbie line got biger bays, but only 50 m/bit domi and ishtar are UNCHANGED (must emphasize....alot of misconceptions out there) all other ships are unchanged at this point...but now they can be tweaked easily in the future <-----this is really the bigest point to bandwidth...room for future fun. Originally by: Snuggly It's just so great to have an actual reason to not die, incentive is fantastic!
Dracon Zethera	Posted - 2007.11.08 01:56:00 - [15] Originally by: Nian Banks I am happy with the new changes to drones, drone bandwidth and drone not recharging shields in the drone bay. Plus the smaller drone gui and new commands. What only concerns me is that for most ships, the drone bayS have not been increased. All that has been done for most ships is that their drone bandwidth equals their drone bay size. E.g. Bellicose 40m3, 40mbit That to me is kind of lame, now as this bandwidth idea is to allow you to have more spare drones but you can only field X amount of a certain sized drone then where are the drone bay increases, where's the 40m3:60mbit for a bellicose? or any other ship with drones. Note/ the bellicose was just an example as its the only ship I know the m3 & mbit of off the top of my head. The bellicose also isn't a drone ship. The point of drone bandwith is to increase the stock of drones that drone boats can have while not allowing them to use higher end drones. Perfect example is the myrm, 125m3 before the drone bandwith meant it could field 5 heavy drones. With a drone bay of 150m3 and a bandwith of 75m3 it can field 5 mediums, or 3 heavies, or 2 heavies 2 mediums and a small drone, but it cannot field 5 heavies even though its drone bay can hold that much. It forces a person into filling their drone bays with more, smaller drones. That way a drone boat can use a good amount of different drones: one set of attack drones, one set of Ewar drones, and one set of utility drones for example.
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.08 02:10:00 - [16] Drone bandwidth also prevents you from doing the "scoop and redeploy" trick to get 5x heavies out of a 25 m^3 drone bay. Liang -- Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU. Yarr?
a51 duke1406 Order Of The Sentinel	Posted - 2007.11.08 03:35:00 - [17] To anwser the poster, Drone bandwidth has been introduced for one reason to nerf a certain ships, it has not benifited one ship, and does not give any ship an advantage, drones and drone ships are being nerfed, this is the tool the devs are using, there is no silvir lining, dont look for one. And any1 that answers with the ridiculas it gives you more options, more varity etc, has never flown a drone ship, nor understands what you use them for i.e dps. Btw the eos and myr needed nerfing.
Herring Pimpology Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2007.11.08 03:55:00 - [18] Originally by: Colonel Branigain Okay, I've done some reading on the forums concerning the upcoming drone bandwidth thing. The following points seem to be in agreement by the majority of posters I've seen. 1. That drones will carry a bandwidth cost that will equal their size... 2. That you will still be able to field only (up to) 5 drones at a time... My question: Why put this in game? All it adds really is an additional mechanic to the game with no clear benefit. By way of example: I have one ship that has a 75m3 drone bay, and another that has 300m3... each can only field (up to) 5 drones at single time. Now lets say the bandwidth capabilities of ship 1 = 75, and the bandwidth of ship 2 = 125 (again hypothetical)... and each can still only field (up to) 5 drones. Why do we need extra game mechanic reinforcing drone use limitation? with a 75m3 drone bay that clearly limits your drone options alot more than with a drone heavy ship with a 300m3 drone bay. Currently I have an eos with a 300m3 drone bay.. I can field 5 heavy drones at once (which is the bulk of that ships dps)... however the real versatility comes from that ship's ability to carry alot of different drones and to launch drones appropriate to the situation. Whether I need an e-war drone, log drone, or simply different damage type drone, I can mix the drone load out, group the drones by forseen need, and deploy (again up to 5)... if the bandwidth only really limits what we can deploy from the drone bay why do we need the mechanic? When we are already limited to the ceiling of 5 drones it doesn't seem that we would need just another way of limitign how many drones can be deployed from amoung those you can carry. This is my opinion, any insights would be welcome because frankly I just don't see the point. Maybe I'm misinformed, or maybe I'm missing some important aspect I really should see after 3 years of playing this game. There's really no point, they could have much more easily just changed the drone bay sizes of the ships they wanted to nerf. Bandwidth was just a spin they used to try and make the nerf seem like a positive thing to the gallente players. CCP - please stop with the nerfing and boost something already.
Seth Allasatre Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.08 04:30:00 - [19] Ishtar is unchanged? IOW, there's no bandwidth limitation or it has a limit of 125mb? If they nerf that down to 75mb along with the BCs, I'm gonna be ****ed. I think 80mb would've been a perfect amt of bandwidth for the BC class. That'd give you 2 large, 3 med along with your guns. Powerful? Yes. Overpowered? Not any more.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2007.11.08 04:35:00 - [20] Bandwidth is a great and much needed idea. The 'problem' is how it is being implemented. One drone ship has been improved via the bandwidth concept: the Vexor. Other than that no other ships have been buffed. The Myrmidon and Eos have been nerfed, no, gutted, and we're left with some sort of half assed ship designs that arn't drone ships anymore, but just unimpressive piles of crap that happen to have some sort of drone bonus tacked on. The Eos has the same DPS as a Thorax now. The Myrm gets the majority of it's DPS from guns now, even though it doesn't have a gun bonus. Drone ship? Not really. The drone ships should be re-designed around their drones as their main form of firepower and flexibility, and their turret DPS reduced. Not the other way around. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I
Jenea Gallente The Copernicus Institute	Posted - 2007.11.08 05:22:00 - [21] Yeah, bandwidth is pretty much just a way to nerf a couple drone boats. I've been waiting a year since the last drone revamp (nerf), patiently waiting variations on drone modules, faction drones, drone implants, and a faction drone battleship. What I got was passed up on damage rigs and a new mechanic (nerf) called bandwidth. Don't be suprised if bandwidth isn't used to further tweak (nerf) other ships (Ishtar) in the future and dronebays are magically increased on some other ships (while other ships get the almighty, overpowering +X dronebay increase per level as one of their special abilities.)
Atama Cardel GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.08 05:36:00 - [22] Originally by: omiNATION Of course, it's actually a nerf since CCP didn't really increase the bays on any of the ships on SiSi, did they? Wait, what? That's a load of crap, if they're going to add in bandwith like that to supposedly increase the variety of drones you can carry then they need to up the freakin' drone bay size otherwise it doesn't add any versatility. Originally by: Odda hey im a gonnie and i like to sue CCP to gett the game to my favor
Ray Duo	Posted - 2007.11.08 07:12:00 - [23] I wonder what all this will do to the Guardian Vexor
Planktal Kenshao Industries	Posted - 2007.11.08 08:04:00 - [24] nothing, the Guardian Vexor is so rare and unused that it wont matter to anyone, even the collectors who have one. it's a non-issue period.
PVT Necromancist Minmatar Full Metal Seraphim	Posted - 2007.11.08 08:15:00 - [25] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Myrmidon has received an additional 25m3 drone space (150m3 total) , but can only control 75m3. Arbitrator family is limited to medium drones but will have three sets of drones .. HUUUUGE versatility increase. Personally I think the idea of bandwidth is spot on. The notion of having large dronebays without turning a ship into nberwtfpwnage is well worth the adjustment needed by us. The SiSi stats are still very much in flux, just take the Eos' new tanking boost (midslot swapped for lowslot). Devs will have a much smoother balancing tool as well giving them more time to fix the broken stuff ... :) Yeah, i've been thinking of getting a myrm, but i put it on ice after reading all the whine about this nerf... though after i've seen what it's reallyabout, i'm gonna get one. Thanks a heap for making stuff clear ----------------------------------------
Si'dun Took	Posted - 2007.11.08 09:44:00 - [26] Basically, CCP is punishing all people for choosing gallente as a race. Cuz you know we are all dirty frenchies and shouldnt get racial benefits (drones like other races get their bonuses (caldari = missiles). Its only fair that we frenshies pay. Because after all we are born to die like chicken. On a serious note, This is really lame and they should be reducing the turret slots on drone based ships rather than taking away the point of ships like the myrmadin, ishkur, and etc. Drone combat is a playing style that takes alot of SP's to be good at and shouldnt be nerfed as a whole.
Gartel Reiman Project F3	Posted - 2007.11.08 10:01:00 - [27] Originally by: a51 duke1406 To anwser the poster, Drone bandwidth has been introduced for one reason to nerf a certain ships, it has not benifited one ship, and does not give any ship an advantage, drones and drone ships are being nerfed, this is the tool the devs are using, there is no silvir lining, dont look for one. And any1 that answers with the ridiculas it gives you more options, more varity etc, has never flown a drone ship, nor understands what you use them for i.e dps. Btw the eos and myr needed nerfing. Well, now that the scoop-and-redeploy trick is no more, drones will be a lot more fragile - having extra waves of drones will be very useful. And the ability to carry multiple types of drones is excellent too - take a flight of mediums/heavies for your main damage, and with a larger dronebay you can now carry some Warrior IIs as well for the smaller faster targets. Previously you would have had to choose between the two. Additionally you can back up your main DPS flights with some non-damaging types, so we'll likely see a lot more use of e.g. ECM and repair drones, as ships can now carry them without having to compromise the flight of combat drones they can field. Of course, all of this works on the assumption that bandwidth is less than dronebay size. My understanding was that most ships would have a dronebay larger than the bandwidth to allow for this flexibility - perhaps your average combat ship will not have 'spare' dronebay space whereas specialised drone boats will, or vice versa. Until the actualy stats are released on Tranquility I'm reserving judgement.
Diomidis Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.08 12:08:00 - [28] Bandwidth is a nice balancing issue that leaves little room for Cruise / BC class fighting vessels to load and use "A full rack" of BS class weapons. Like loading that ol-kestrel with Cruise missiles thing... The Myrmidon is still useful as it can carry multiple waves of med sized drones and fit guns on it's high slots that do considerable dps. Drone-boats that use primarily drones for damage dealing like the Ishtar or the Arbi's line-up got a slight indirect buff - that's ok, cause they actually needed it. The "leave behind-scoop-redeploy" "cheat" is also fixed for those mean campers :P Let the real life game mechanics sort if this "nerf" actually ruins your beloved drone-boats, along with the "scoop to reshield it" think...try fitting some damps + tracking disruptors to prolong you drones life, and even try to move close for remote repping...adapt
Gartel Reiman Project F3	Posted - 2007.11.08 14:02:00 - [29] Originally by: Diomidis Like loading that ol-kestrel with Cruise missiles thing... The Manticore?
Justice Bringer Minmatar Space-Bar FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2007.11.08 15:00:00 - [30] Originally by: Dracon Zethera Originally by: Nian Banks I am happy with the new changes to drones, drone bandwidth and drone not recharging shields in the drone bay. Plus the smaller drone gui and new commands. What only concerns me is that for most ships, the drone bayS have not been increased. All that has been done for most ships is that their drone bandwidth equals their drone bay size. E.g. Bellicose 40m3, 40mbit That to me is kind of lame, now as this bandwidth idea is to allow you to have more spare drones but you can only field X amount of a certain sized drone then where are the drone bay increases, where's the 40m3:60mbit for a bellicose? or any other ship with drones. Note/ the bellicose was just an example as its the only ship I know the m3 & mbit of off the top of my head. The bellicose also isn't a drone ship. The point of drone bandwith is to increase the stock of drones that drone boats can have while not allowing them to use higher end drones. Perfect example is the myrm, 125m3 before the drone bandwith meant it could field 5 heavy drones. With a drone bay of 150m3 and a bandwith of 75m3 it can field 5 mediums, or 3 heavies, or 2 heavies 2 mediums and a small drone, but it cannot field 5 heavies even though its drone bay can hold that much. It forces a person into filling their drone bays with more, smaller drones. That way a drone boat can use a good amount of different drones: one set of attack drones, one set of Ewar drones, and one set of utility drones for example. Yes but your argument is flawed, as are some of the changes on SISI. The Myrmidon is a drone boat pure and simple with 10% increase to drone HP and damage per lvl. This bonus doesn't extend to non combat drones and therefore it gives the Myrmidon pilot no incentive to use utility drones as this would greatly reduce the overall damage dealt since it receives no turret based damage bonus. This is the same as with the Ishtar and Dominix and these ships have been left untouched as far as their ability to launch 5 heavies. The Eos is another drone ship/drone carrier (call it what you will), that has been fliped upside down and has come out battered and buruised. I already calculated that with command at lvl 5 I can field 6 waves of 5 medium drones currently on Tranq, but on SISI I cannot do this at all and this is because it has had too many changes all at the same time and it is now rendered weaker than a Brutix. -2 turrets is fine, swapping one med for a low is questionable based on the actual role of the ship, but then on top of all of that the drone bay bonus and the actual drone bay size have been swapped around in such a way as to make worse than it currently is. lvl 5 Command will give: Tranq - 300m3 Drone Bay (Base is 50m3 with 50m3 per lvl) = 6 waves of medium drones SISI - 225m3 Drone Bay (Base is 150m3 with 15m3 per lvl) = 4 waves of med and 1 of light. So contrary to the more drones space and more waves of drones that CCP have espoused this is not so based on the current stats of the Eos. People seem to have got into their minds that the Eos or Myrmidon shouldn't be able to field 5 heavy drones because they are large and therfore should be the reserve of battleships only. Well the ishtar isn't a battleship and for me this is one ship that has been designed well coming from it's base ship the Vexor. Someone in this thread asked why the Bellicose doesn't have the ability to field more drones etc etc, and your response was that it's not a 'drone ship'. Well here we have drone ships that are being changed in such a way as to render them not drone ships but simply expensive ships with no real role. As someone else has also stated the only reason for drone Bandwidth is to nerf certain ships and that just means the design of them wasn't thought out as well as it should have been. Just my 2 isk. Justice
Justice Bringer Minmatar Space-Bar FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2007.11.08 15:26:00 - [31] Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn only ships that are affected by the bandwidth change in a negative fasion are: myrm: 75 m/bit (2 heabies, 2 mediums, 1 light max in space) but 25^3 more drone space. Eos: 75 m/bit (bay reduced through bonus change....but still quite large for waves of mediums) Ishkur 25 m/bit (only 5x lights now, no mixing in mediums) Well this just shows that you're not really a drone ship user because on SISI I can launch medium drones from my Ishkur no problem: 2 med + 1 light (25MBit/s) 1 med + 3 light (25MBit/sec) Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn The ishkur change is meh...but really only because assault frigs suck, and this was one of the few good ones, mostly because of how drones work on it today. Myrm needed a nerf, We can argue if this was the right one or not, but it got the job done. Eos needed a nerf, only problem is is that it cannot fall back on its actual intended role, as it sucks horrible at it. At least its no longer better than the Astarte at the Astarte's role. This is not such a bad thing to have as the Astarte should clearly be the damage dealer, but now the Eos does less damage than the Brutix which cannot be correct.... Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn arbie line got biger bays, but only 50 m/bit domi and ishtar are UNCHANGED (must emphasize....alot of misconceptions out there) Well of course they remain unchanged because afterall they are drone ships.... Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn all other ships are unchanged at this point...but now they can be tweaked easily in the future <-----this is really the bigest point to bandwidth...room for future fun. Room for future fun??? Yeah of course and there I was thinking that I was having fun with my drone ships already...!!! Justice
Jenea Gallente The Copernicus Institute	Posted - 2007.11.08 17:15:00 - [32] Edited by: Jenea on 08/11/2007 17:15:42 Originally by: Diomidis Bandwidth is a nice balancing issue that leaves little room for Cruise / BC class fighting vessels to load and use "A full rack" of BS class weapons. A heavy drone is not a battleship class weapon, but in fact, just a heavy drone. Larger drones have been, and continue to will be, mixed around and used in smaller ships such as the Ishkur and Vexor. Had CCP wanted to maintain the hard division between drone classes, much like the way that turrets and missile launchers are restricted in the downward use of larger size weaponry, drones would have been introduced to the game with CPU and PG requirements that prohibit heavier drones downward use by smaller ship classes. Statements catagorizing heavy drones as battleship weapons are illogical at best.
Natalie Jax Indecision Industries	Posted - 2007.11.08 17:17:00 - [33] Originally by: Justice Bringer Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn only ships that are affected by the bandwidth change in a negative fasion are: myrm: 75 m/bit (2 heabies, 2 mediums, 1 light max in space) but 25^3 more drone space. Eos: 75 m/bit (bay reduced through bonus change....but still quite large for waves of mediums) Ishkur 25 m/bit (only 5x lights now, no mixing in mediums) Well this just shows that you're not really a drone ship user because on SISI I can launch medium drones from my Ishkur no problem: 2 med + 1 light (25MBit/s) 1 med + 3 light (25MBit/sec) I wouldn't mock someone for "not being a drone user" with this kind of suggestion. You could use a combination of medium and lights, but it lowers your DPS and doesn't really have any benefits. Invariably, 5 drones will out-dps an equally deployable lower number of drones. i.e. 3 Ogre II's = 261 dps 2 Ogre II's, 2 Hammerhead II's, 1 Hobgoblin II = 284 dps Both use 75m3 (or 75 Mbit) but the second option has all the cards. The only exception being versus a ship with smartbombs, but with the change to scoop-redeploy you'd be hosed either way.
Blutreiter Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.11.09 14:13:00 - [34] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Myrmidon has received an additional 25m3 drone space (150m3 total) , but can only control 75m3. Arbitrator family is limited to medium drones but will have three sets of drones .. HUUUUGE versatility increase. Personally I think the idea of bandwidth is spot on. The notion of having large dronebays without turning a ship into nberwtfpwnage is well worth the adjustment needed by us. The SiSi stats are still very much in flux, just take the Eos' new tanking boost (midslot swapped for lowslot). Devs will have a much smoother balancing tool as well giving them more time to fix the broken stuff ... :) I call bull**** on the arbitrator "Boost". 33% DPS reduction anyone? How in hell is that a boost? An Arbitrator has pss-poor weapon capabilities outside of fielding drones. Let me remind you, 1 SINGLE launcher. 2 UNBONUSED turretslots. Frigates outdamage that. And everyone that cries about "hooray versatility!"... i guess if you think about using additional EW drones in there, please remember the stacking nerfs, which means: bigger EW drones = better results even in smaller numbers. Plus it kills the sentry sniper role COMPLETELY from the arbitrator. Vexor is no replacement, due to lacking 1 medslot and lacking around 50 CPU. Hard cold facts. Amarr get another foot in their posteriors. Cogito ergo boom* - I think i'll blow sht up*
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.11.09 14:31:00 - [35] Quote: I call bull**** on the arbitrator "Boost". 33% DPS reduction anyone? How in hell is that a boost? An Arbitrator has pss-poor weapon capabilities outside of fielding drones. Never seen arbitrators field a mix of drones, allways 5 medium. Quote:* Let me remind you, 1 SINGLE launcher. 2 UNBONUSED turretslots. Frigates outdamage that. Not if you include the dronebay and other aspects of the ship like EW goodies and more HP. There is more to a ship than simply damage. Yes EW is going to be nerfed, but this counts (more) for other ships aswell. Quote: And everyone that cries about "hooray versatility!"... i guess if you think about using additional EW drones in there, please remember the stacking nerfs, which means: bigger EW drones = better results even in smaller numbers. Drones will be easy to kill, multiple waves will be very nice. Dont think about NOW, think about how the situation will be AFTER the patch. Quote: Plus it kills the sentry sniper role COMPLETELY from the arbitrator. Vexor is no replacement, due to lacking 1 medslot and lacking around 50 CPU. Ive heard this before. Tbh i have never encountered/heard about sniping arbitrators. Like someone said: adapt or die with the dronenerfs, thats what i will do as a gallente fighter. Why dont you do the same? Quote: Amarr get another foot in their posteriors. Funny how everything is supposed to be a amarr nerf. Drones get nerfed! omg amarr nerf, Damps are nerfed to hell and back and other modules (EW (not ECM), tracking comps, sensorboosters) require scripts. OMG amarr nerf. its redicolous _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Lord Rahvin	Posted - 2007.11.09 15:15:00 - [36] Yes the increased drone bays allow for more versatility for which drones you use on different ships. But the fact remains, the increased drone bays and bandwidth is only to appease the noobs that are too stupid to keep their drones alive in the first place. I mean hell their shields completly regen as soon as they dock. Just keep a close eye on your drones and dock them when there being shot at, and undock them right away to resum the attack. But unfortunetly people are stupid. Like people sending out drones when their enemy is 40-60km's away, thats just stupid. I dont care what anyone says, there is no such thing as drone sniping. I hate how ccp is trying to take away gallentes main advantage and weapon and leave them with only hybrid turrets. Hybrid turrets are great and everything but are at a huge disadvantage since they require cap, unlike launchers and projectile turrets. Instead of taking away drone advantages how about taking away their turrets? or have the gallene ships SPECIALIZE (MEANING THAT NOT ALL SHIPS OF THE SAME CLASS HAVE TO BE EXACTLY THE SAME!!!!!!!!!!) in either hybrid turrets or drones.
Blutreiter Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.11.09 15:39:00 - [37] Edited by: Blutreiter on 09/11/2007 15:42:58 Originally by: madaluap Quote: I call bull**** on the arbitrator "Boost". 33% DPS reduction anyone? How in hell is that a boost? An Arbitrator has pss-poor weapon capabilities outside of fielding drones. Never seen arbitrators field a mix of drones, allways 5 medium. Quote:* Let me remind you, 1 SINGLE launcher. 2 UNBONUSED turretslots. Frigates outdamage that. Not if you include the dronebay and other aspects of the ship like EW goodies and more HP. There is more to a ship than simply damage. Yes EW is going to be nerfed, but this counts (more) for other ships aswell. Quote: And everyone that cries about "hooray versatility!"... i guess if you think about using additional EW drones in there, please remember the stacking nerfs, which means: bigger EW drones = better results even in smaller numbers. Drones will be easy to kill, multiple waves will be very nice. Dont think about NOW, think about how the situation will be AFTER the patch. Quote: Plus it kills the sentry sniper role COMPLETELY from the arbitrator. Vexor is no replacement, due to lacking 1 medslot and lacking around 50 CPU. Ive heard this before. Tbh i have never encountered/heard about sniping arbitrators. Like someone said: adapt or die with the dronenerfs, thats what i will do as a gallente fighter. Why dont you do the same? Quote: Amarr get another foot in their posteriors. Funny how everything is supposed to be a amarr nerf. Drones get nerfed! omg amarr nerf, Damps are nerfed to hell and back and other modules (EW (not ECM), tracking comps, sensorboosters) require scripts. OMG amarr nerf. its redicolous This just means you haven't seen many arbitrator pilots at all. Also Tracking Disruptors are considered to be the "weakest" EW to begin with. ALSO, drone users that are unable to keep their drones alive are dead drone users, read the poster above... the drone changes affect all ships with the rescoop fix. Just because you're ignorant of this ship, doesn't mean you can stamp your foot and proclaim "it's all good" Cogito ergo boom - I think i'll blow sht up*
Gartel Reiman Project F3	Posted - 2007.11.09 22:16:00 - [38] Edited by: Gartel Reiman on 09/11/2007 22:22:52 Originally by: Lord Rahvin the increased drone bays and bandwidth is only to appease the noobs that are too stupid to keep their drones alive in the first place. I mean hell their shields completly regen as soon as they dock. Not any more, this 'feature' is being removed in Rev 2.3 to make drones actually destroyable. Quote: I dont care what anyone says, there is no such thing as drone sniping. Sentries.
The RepoMan Caldari Red Horizon Inc Red Horizon	Posted - 2007.11.09 23:21:00 - [39] To allow better control over what drone sizes a player is able to use for a given ship and to allow for true reserve drone space, two mechanics which were desired but not present in game until now. I would have thought that was obvious to any pants on head ******, clearly I give eve-o forum monkeys too much credit.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates	Posted - 2007.11.09 23:37:00 - [40] Originally by: Bardi MecAuldnis Originally by: Constance Nobel Thing is, that if this is just some sort of nerftastic idea.. then why not just lower the dronebay sizes of the individual ships instead of adding another mechanic for the game to track? Because this allow for more variations without having Curses running around with 5 Ogre II's What he said. Spare drones are useful. Fielding more/bigger drones is (or can be) overpowered. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? GMP and TNP
Kaker Viper Squad Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.09 23:50:00 - [41] Edited by: Kaker on 09/11/2007 23:54:29 Originally by: Compendium Glad to see the Myrmidon nurfed in some way finally. About time the dps is lowered. Why does every one complain about the mryms DPS its dps is max like 550 unless you t2 rig it and t2 neutrons which leaves you with no tank useless. myrm is fine nuff said kill the drones Originally by: Jenea Edited by: Jenea on 08/11/2007 17:15:42 Originally by: Diomidis Bandwidth is a nice balancing issue that leaves little room for Cruise / BC class fighting vessels to load and use "A full rack" of BS class weapons. A heavy drone is not a battleship class weapon, but in fact, just a heavy drone. Larger drones have been, and continue to will be, mixed around and used in smaller ships such as the Ishkur and Vexor. Had CCP wanted to maintain the hard division between drone classes, much like the way that turrets and missile launchers are restricted in the downward use of larger size weaponry, drones would have been introduced to the game with CPU and PG requirements that prohibit heavier drones downward use by smaller ship classes. Statements catagorizing heavy drones as battleship weapons are illogical at best. -signed A Bc should be able to do 381 dps so should a Fleeet command ship take my turrets away from my eos ffs just trained sentry 5 and cant use them but on 2 ships now( megat doesnt count ) stop with this bandwith crap its useless. If anything you should make all turret to be destroyed like my drones [url=http://www.eve-triumvirate.com/killboard/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=4059] [/url]
Atsuko Ratu Caldari Advanced Logistics	Posted - 2007.11.10 00:44:00 - [42] Originally by: Herring There's really no point, they could have much more easily just changed the drone bay sizes of the ships they wanted to nerf. Bandwidth was just a spin they used to try and make the nerf seem like a positive thing to the gallente players. Learn to read. That would actually nerf the drone ships ever more.
Solomun Gendy	Posted - 2007.11.10 01:12:00 - [43] I know drone pilots are concerned about their dps, and as a gallente pilot who has been aiming for an Eos for the last 4 months I admit it is frustrating, but I find another general issue has been made apparent, at least for me. What about logistics drones? Generally speaking, i'm a logistics / ewar pilot. When i get my Eos, my drone bay's probably going to have shield and armor rep drones for the sake of utility in the gangs I run with. With the decrease in its drone bay, and the fact that logistics drones have bandwidth which is comparable to other drones of the same size, it makes it so that a fleet command ship is of less general use for logistics situations. I can get over the bandwidth nerf as an effect on dps, but why do the logistics / ewar drones have to have the same bandwidth as the others? Especially considering the ewar nerf, having light or even medium ewar drones out will be of little use. What could it hurt to give them 1/5/10 for bandwidth?
Allan Robertson Gallente Azure Horizon Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.11.10 02:19:00 - [44] I think this drone change or more of a nerf is really going to be unpopular, it's over complicating matters and unimaginative. --- The Cake is a Lie! Say YES! to Mining Cargo Holds on barges!
Zendoc Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.11.10 03:05:00 - [45] I'm pretty sure this also fixes the exploit where a ship with a small dronebay could deploy a drone, leave it in space, dock and put a new drone in the bay, go back to where it parked its drone, leave it in space, repeat, until the ship could field 5 equal to the largest size of its drone bay. This means you could field 5 Hammerhead IIs using in an Ishkur. You couldn't warp off anywhere, but you could deffinately camp a gate with them. Putting a limiter on the amount of drones a ship can actually control fixes this exploit, it also nerfs a few overpowered drone boats, the myrm for example.

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