Originally by: Graalum

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also its called a damage control. Not a suitcase.

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Originally by: Khan Durian

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if those numbers are accurate, my skills suck incredibly

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Originally by: hellsknights

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You do realise you can get more DPS without every skill at 5 and
adding some implants.

I can get my Deimos to about 820dps without faction/officer mods.
"im at work so my numbers could be a bit off"

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Originally by: F'nog

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Your math intrigues me, and I wish to subscribe to its newsletter.

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Originally by: Wideen

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So tell me, how does it tank with its 7 low slots?

nice tank I'll take it

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Originally by: Relnala

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Originally by: hellsknights

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You do realise you can get more DPS without every skill at 5 and
adding some implants.

I can get my Deimos to about 820dps without faction/officer mods.
"im at work so my numbers could be a bit off"

---

Yeah cause comparing ships with entirely impractical setups is logical. You're using what... neutron blasters and 3 damage mods...?

@OP: I agree the Zealot needs some love. I think its getting a drone bay in Rev 3 though. (That could be rumor though)

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Originally by: Wideen

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So tell me, how does it tank with its 7 low slots?

nice tank I'll take it

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Originally by: Relnala

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Originally by: hellsknights

---

You do realise you can get more DPS without every skill at 5 and
adding some implants.

I can get my Deimos to about 820dps without faction/officer mods.
"im at work so my numbers could be a bit off"

---

Yeah cause comparing ships with entirely impractical setups is logical. You're using what... neutron blasters and 3 damage mods...?

@OP: I agree the Zealot needs some love. I think its getting a drone bay in Rev 3 though. (That could be rumor though)

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Originally by: Ruah Piskonit

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get off EFT and get in game.

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Originally by: hellsknights

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Originally by: Relnala

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Originally by: hellsknights

---

You do realise you can get more DPS without every skill at 5 and
adding some implants.

I can get my Deimos to about 820dps without faction/officer mods.
"im at work so my numbers could be a bit off"

---

Yeah cause comparing ships with entirely impractical setups is logical. You're using what... neutron blasters and 3 damage mods...?

@OP: I agree the Zealot needs some love. I think its getting a drone bay in Rev 3 though. (That could be rumor though)

---

Do you even fly the Deimos? you do realise that the ship is a gank ship and
not a tanking one. My setup does have a MAR, talking logical builds and sp/stats, do you
know anyone who has everyhting at lvl 5 ????? Don't think so.

As for my comment i just said that with implants the DPS is greater then with
all LVL 5.

BTW, i can get over 800 DPS without usind neutrons if i remember corectly, anyhow the setup works
perfectly for gank.

You either Nano fit the Deimos or you gank fit it, those are my only
two options for that ship.

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Originally by: bundy bear

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Originally by: Ruah Piskonit

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get off EFT and get in game.

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WTF is this meant to mean?, I flown every HAC in game and know the zealot is below par. I used quickfit to generate numbers to backup my claim.

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Originally by: Ruah Piskonit

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get off EFT and get in game.

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Originally by: Damneia Achernius

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my pvp fit on zealot:

4x heavy pulse t2, small best named neut
med inj, web, warp disrutor
mar t2, ean t2, thermic energized t2, 800mm plate, best named DCU (damn cpu :P), 2x heat sinks

2x trimark rigs

i have about 7,1k armor. i know it doesnt have a mwd or ab

if i look at EFT dps... its around 380 whit my skills... but i dont really count that. what matters is what it does ingame :)

done some crazy stuff whit this ship :D... even killed a nano ishtar once (tho on test server :/) and a vaga.

only issue i have whit this ship is that it needs MORE CPU :P

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Originally by: Bellum Eternus

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Originally by: Ruah Piskonit

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get off EFT and get in game.

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No joke. These guys have got to stop installing EFT.

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Originally by: mama guru

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Originally by: Damneia Achernius

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my pvp fit on zealot:

4x heavy pulse t2, small best named neut
med inj, web, warp disrutor
mar t2, ean t2, thermic energized t2, 800mm plate, best named DCU (damn cpu :P), 2x heat sinks

2x trimark rigs

i have about 7,1k armor. i know it doesnt have a mwd or ab

if i look at EFT dps... its around 380 whit my skills... but i dont really count that. what matters is what it does ingame :)

done some crazy stuff whit this ship :D... even killed a nano ishtar once (tho on test server :/) and a vaga.

only issue i have whit this ship is that it needs MORE CPU :P

---

Stop posting crap like this. First of all your setup is completely stupid. Secondly, you dont kill a Vagabond or a nano Ishtar in a Zealot. Period.

---

Originally by: mama guru

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Originally by: Damneia Achernius

---

my pvp fit on zealot:

4x heavy pulse t2, small best named neut
med inj, web, warp disrutor
mar t2, ean t2, thermic energized t2, 800mm plate, best named DCU (damn cpu :P), 2x heat sinks

2x trimark rigs

i have about 7,1k armor. i know it doesnt have a mwd or ab

if i look at EFT dps... its around 380 whit my skills... but i dont really count that. what matters is what it does ingame :)

done some crazy stuff whit this ship :D... even killed a nano ishtar once (tho on test server :/) and a vaga.

only issue i have whit this ship is that it needs MORE CPU :P

---

Stop posting crap like this. First of all your setup is completely stupid. Secondly, you dont kill a Vagabond or a nano Ishtar in a Zealot. Period.

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Originally by: Ruah Piskonit

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get off EFT and get in game.

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Originally by: Wideen

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So tell me, how does it tank with its 7 low slots?

nice tank I'll take it

---

Originally by: Damneia Achernius

---

my pvp fit on zealot:

4x heavy pulse t2, small best named neut
med inj, web, warp disrutor
mar t2, ean t2, thermic energized t2, 800mm plate, best named DCU (damn cpu :P), 2x heat sinks

2x trimark rigs

i have about 7,1k armor. i know it doesnt have a mwd or ab

if i look at EFT dps... its around 380 whit my skills... but i dont really count that. what matters is what it does ingame :)

done some crazy stuff whit this ship :D... even killed a nano ishtar once (tho on test server :/) and a vaga.

only issue i have whit this ship is that it needs MORE CPU :P

---

Originally by: bundy bear

---

The zealot and the munin are the only 2 ships to have 4 weapon bonuses to the same weapon AFAIK. The zealot has 4 bonuses that apply directly to lasers so its a very specialised ship. It can fire lasers and nothing else.

So you would expect this ship to be prety damn good at using lasers. Using 3 dmg mods and heavy pulse II with high dmg tech II ammo the zealot is able to turn out 465dps.

Using 3 dmg mods and fitting for maximum damage here is a list of all the HAC's from most damage to least damage. (I know these setups arent always practical we are just calculating damage)

Deimos - 794dps
ishtar - 737dps
munin - 696 dps
vagabond - 658dps
sacriledge - 575dps
cerbersus - 516dps
eagle 481 - dps
zealot 465 - dps

So with 4 bonuses dedicated to lasers it is the weakest HAC in terms of max damage output. Not only this but it is also the most limited in damage type, consumes the most cap and most vunerable to EWAR.

The omen which is the zealots tech 1 varient has 2 bonuses to lasers. Using 3 dmg mods it achives 469dps which is more than the zealot.

The zealot is also the only HAC that is outdamaged by its races recon cruiser. The curse fitted with misisles can do 521 dps which is 56 more than the zealot.

The zealot also only manages to 13.4% more dps than the gallente destroyer with 3 dmg mods.

I know most of these setups are not practical but the figures realy do show the zealot is realy lacking in the dps department for a ship designed to do nothing but dmg.

Also I think the eagle is in prety bad state aswell so please dont try to use it to justify the crappness of the zealot.

---

Originally by: bundy bear

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Originally by: Ruah Piskonit

---

get off EFT and get in game.

---

WTF is this meant to mean?, I flown every HAC in game and know the zealot is below par. I used quickfit to generate numbers to backup my claim.

---

Originally by: Setana Manoro

---

Edited by: Setana Manoro on 09/11/2007 11:29:30

Originally by: bundy bear

---

The zealot and the munin are the only 2 ships to have 4 weapon bonuses to the same weapon AFAIK. The zealot has 4 bonuses that apply directly to lasers so its a very specialised ship. It can fire lasers and nothing else.

So you would expect this ship to be prety damn good at using lasers. Using 3 dmg mods and heavy pulse II with high dmg tech II ammo the zealot is able to turn out 465dps.

Using 3 dmg mods and fitting for maximum damage here is a list of all the HAC's from most damage to least damage. (I know these setups arent always practical we are just calculating damage)

Deimos - 794dps
ishtar - 737dps
munin - 696 dps
vagabond - 658dps
sacriledge - 575dps
cerbersus - 516dps
eagle 481 - dps
zealot 465 - dps

So with 4 bonuses dedicated to lasers it is the weakest HAC in terms of max damage output. Not only this but it is also the most limited in damage type, consumes the most cap and most vunerable to EWAR.

The omen which is the zealots tech 1 varient has 2 bonuses to lasers. Using 3 dmg mods it achives 469dps which is more than the zealot.

The zealot is also the only HAC that is outdamaged by its races recon cruiser. The curse fitted with misisles can do 521 dps which is 56 more than the zealot.

The zealot also only manages to 13.4% more dps than the gallente destroyer with 3 dmg mods.

I know most of these setups are not practical but the figures realy do show the zealot is realy lacking in the dps department for a ship designed to do nothing but dmg.

Also I think the eagle is in prety bad state aswell so please dont try to use it to justify the crappness of the zealot.

---

First of all your comparison is ... wrong to say the least.
Let me break it down to you.
Ishtar is another of them very specialized hacs, because it is a drone carrier. Because of this it has crap pg and cpu - the bane of drone ships being pg, not to mention just 3 weapon slots. This means that you will have no tank in that "maxed for damage" ishtar, while the Zealot still retains 4 slots for armor tank.
So you do not compare a ship that can still tank and dish out damage to an all gank ship.
The same goes for Muninn, Vagabond, Sacrilege. And with a special mention for the first 2, you do not do the paper dps with them unless you are stationary at 2km from the target. That is why you take the EFT/quickfit dps of a ac ship with a grain of salt.
For the others, Cerberus doesn't do insta-damage, Eagle does more damage just because of blasters and of the shield tank, which allows you to fit dam mods and tracking mods in lows.

Oh and btw, if you compare lasers with blasters, 10km for medium blasters is using null and even missing some shots, 10km for Heavy Pulse II with Conflag M is constant hit if you control the transversal.

As for most vulnerable to EW, that is a matter of opinion, depends on the EW, and guess what, even ac's/blasters are affected by td's.
In fact the new scripts for EW coming soon will give it somewhat of a boost - but it will be an indirect one.

---

Originally by: bundy bear

---

The omen which is the zealots tech 1 varient has 2 bonuses to lasers. Using 3 dmg mods it achives 469dps which is more than the zealot.

The zealot is also the only HAC that is outdamaged by its races recon cruiser. The curse fitted with misisles can do 521 dps which is 56 more than the zealot.

The zealot also only manages to 13.4% more dps than the gallente destroyer with 3 dmg mods.

I know most of these setups are not practical but the figures realy do show the zealot is realy lacking in the dps department for a ship designed to do nothing but dmg.

---

Originally by: bundy bear

---

Originally by: Wideen

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So tell me, how does it tank with its 7 low slots?

nice tank I'll take it

---

With 3 heatsinks you have a 4 slot tank. Without the heatsinks you do 281DPS.

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Originally by: bundy bear

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Originally by: Ruah Piskonit

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get off EFT and get in game.

---

WTF is this meant to mean?, I flown every HAC in game and know the zealot is below par. I used quickfit to generate numbers to backup my claim.

---

Originally by: bundy bear

---

With 3 heatsinks you have a 4 slot tank. Without the heatsinks you do 281DPS.

Deimos and munin can drop all their dmg mods and leave 5/6 slots respectively for low slot tanking and still beat the zealots DPS. With more flexibility in dmg types.

---

Originally by: F'nog

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Your math intrigues me, and I wish to subscribe to its newsletter.

---

Originally by: Haniblecter Teg

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OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOM
OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOM
OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOM
OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOM
OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOM
OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOM
OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOM

DAMAGE IS THE ONLY STAT THAT MATTERS.

NEVERMIND TANK OR ANYTHING ELSE.


OP is an idiot, go back to your EFT drawing board. (7 slot tank, 4 slot with full gank)

---

Originally by: Hait

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Edited by: Hait on 09/11/2007 20:54:06
I'm not convinced that your maths is entirely accurate. Now I'm not max skilled in flying the Zealot, but mine puts out 575dps with conflag. Admittedly that includes a 5% damage to all turrets implant, but even so...

I think a max skilled character without implants will hit 600dps. Chuck in a 5% to all and 5% to medium lazers and you're at 660dps.

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Originally by: F'nog

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Your math intrigues me, and I wish to subscribe to its newsletter.

---

Originally by: Grytok

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Deimos get's 750 DPS in that manner but with 2x MagStab instead of 3 (Void M)

The tanks are pretty the same if you fit them both with a 4-Slot Tank. Zealot has some 300 HP more and a tad more resistances, but that does'nt make up for the low speed and higher CapUsage.

---

Originally by: Liang Nuren

---

Originally by: Grytok

---

Deimos get's 750 DPS in that manner but with 2x MagStab instead of 3 (Void M)

The tanks are pretty the same if you fit them both with a 4-Slot Tank. Zealot has some 300 HP more and a tad more resistances, but that does'nt make up for the low speed and higher CapUsage.

---

Meanwhile the Zealot has a huge optimal and the Deimos has to be within 5km...

I'm not sayin don't boost the Zealot (because we should), but comparing blaster DPS at 5km to Pulse DPS at 30km is just silly.

Liang

---

Originally by: bundy bear

---

Originally by: Setana Manoro

---

Edited by: Setana Manoro on 09/11/2007 11:29:30

Originally by: bundy bear

---

The zealot and the munin are the only 2 ships to have 4 weapon bonuses to the same weapon AFAIK. The zealot has 4 bonuses that apply directly to lasers so its a very specialised ship. It can fire lasers and nothing else.

So you would expect this ship to be prety damn good at using lasers. Using 3 dmg mods and heavy pulse II with high dmg tech II ammo the zealot is able to turn out 465dps.

Using 3 dmg mods and fitting for maximum damage here is a list of all the HAC's from most damage to least damage. (I know these setups arent always practical we are just calculating damage)

Deimos - 794dps
ishtar - 737dps
munin - 696 dps
vagabond - 658dps
sacriledge - 575dps
cerbersus - 516dps
eagle 481 - dps
zealot 465 - dps

So with 4 bonuses dedicated to lasers it is the weakest HAC in terms of max damage output. Not only this but it is also the most limited in damage type, consumes the most cap and most vunerable to EWAR.

The omen which is the zealots tech 1 varient has 2 bonuses to lasers. Using 3 dmg mods it achives 469dps which is more than the zealot.

The zealot is also the only HAC that is outdamaged by its races recon cruiser. The curse fitted with misisles can do 521 dps which is 56 more than the zealot.

The zealot also only manages to 13.4% more dps than the gallente destroyer with 3 dmg mods.

I know most of these setups are not practical but the figures realy do show the zealot is realy lacking in the dps department for a ship designed to do nothing but dmg.

Also I think the eagle is in prety bad state aswell so please dont try to use it to justify the crappness of the zealot.

---

First of all your comparison is ... wrong to say the least.
Let me break it down to you.
Ishtar is another of them very specialized hacs, because it is a drone carrier. Because of this it has crap pg and cpu - the bane of drone ships being pg, not to mention just 3 weapon slots. This means that you will have no tank in that "maxed for damage" ishtar, while the Zealot still retains 4 slots for armor tank.
So you do not compare a ship that can still tank and dish out damage to an all gank ship.
The same goes for Muninn, Vagabond, Sacrilege. And with a special mention for the first 2, you do not do the paper dps with them unless you are stationary at 2km from the target. That is why you take the EFT/quickfit dps of a ac ship with a grain of salt.
For the others, Cerberus doesn't do insta-damage, Eagle does more damage just because of blasters and of the shield tank, which allows you to fit dam mods and tracking mods in lows.

Oh and btw, if you compare lasers with blasters, 10km for medium blasters is using null and even missing some shots, 10km for Heavy Pulse II with Conflag M is constant hit if you control the transversal.

As for most vulnerable to EW, that is a matter of opinion, depends on the EW, and guess what, even ac's/blasters are affected by td's.
In fact the new scripts for EW coming soon will give it somewhat of a boost - but it will be an indirect one.

---

Read where I said these werent all practical setups, the zealot is meant to be a damage HAC but fails horribly. The vagabond is a speed hac that has to eb the most popular HAC in game.

Ishtar an field a 5 slot duel rep tank with injector and MWD. Then have another 2 slots after webb to play with while easily out damaging the zealot.

---

Originally by: Zubakis

---

Something about hacs:
Each race has 2 hacs, one of them is a short range ship the other is a long range ship. You just have to look at the bonuses to figure it out.

Amarr: Zealot (long), Sacri (short)
Minmatar: Munin (long), Vaga (short)
Caldari: Eagle (long), Cerb (should be short, but has a big range too)
Gallente: Ishtar (long with sentrys, but nobody use it so), Deimos (short)

---

Originally by: Grimpak

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Originally by: Zubakis

---

Something about hacs:
Each race has 2 hacs, one of them is a short range ship the other is a long range ship. You just have to look at the bonuses to figure it out.

Amarr: Zealot (long), Sacri (short)
Minmatar: Munin (long), Vaga (short)
Caldari: Eagle (long), Cerb (should be short, but has a big range too)
Gallente: Ishtar (long with sentrys, but nobody use it so), Deimos (short)

---

I'll go even farther as to put each ship in a unique role.

Zealot: med range gunboat
Sacrilege: short missile spewing hard nugget
Munnin: long range artillery support
Vagabond: hit-and-run skirmisher
Eagle: sniper
Cerebrus: missile platform
Ishar: multi-purpose drone platform
Deimos: point blank in-your-face damage dealer.


...this is how I classify them tho.

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Originally by: Kamen

---

U're waaaaaay out of line with those setups. They are completely unrealistic and you know it! I dunno why you are complaining...

Eagle 470DPS??? Ok.. fine...
4x Neutron Blaster II (5km + 6km)
2x HM Launcher II
3x MFS II
1x BCS II
OOOOOOooooopsss... out of grid now....
Now I can't fit a MWD, and how in the hell am I supposed to get in range? With AB??? Even with MWD (to rig it for PG), I can get tops 1.4k/s at an extremely low agility.

Now your "crappy" 465DPS Zealot:
4x Heavy Pulse II (Conflag) (11km + 5km)
5x HS II
This setup uses ONLY HALF the grid available. I put a friggen DUAL cap injector, 10MN MWD II, MAR and it STILL has grid to spare.

Please do not compare grandmas and frogs! DPS is not DPS. Learn about ship's fitting capabilities.

---

Quote:

---

Deimos - 794dps
ishtar - 737dps
munin - 696 dps
vegabond - 658dps
sacriledge - 575dps
cerbersus - 516dps
eagle 481 - dps
zealot 465 - dps

---

Originally by: Ruah Piskonit

---

get off EFT and get in game.

---

Originally by: Agetec Core

---

Edited by: Agetec Core on 10/11/2007 04:35:17
Heres the problem to all you people saying GTFO of EFT and into Eve.
(Flying HACS atm mind you)

I hope you all realize that 200 - 400 dps on a T2 Heavy assult ship (with 400 being as far as gank can take you by stripping your tank while 200 being normal which is frigate level) is beyond unacceptable. Granted it has some kooky range but only with scorch and that cuts the DPS by 1/3 which if you think 200 DPS from a HAC at 20km is acceptable, you needa dose of reality. Its lack of damage is very notable in real fights.

Also for those that say GTFO of eft, I'll bet quite a few isk that you DONT fly amarr. Instead, you're probably being a hypocrite by flyin the deimos or any other HAC(and luvin it) and simply saying: Zomg i rockz (which you do with the good HACs). After all its not like those vids comming out are 98% gallente

---

Originally by: Phelan Lore

---

Edited by: Phelan Lore on 10/11/2007 08:21:18
Here's a hint... if you fit pulses on a zealot you are a noob. Zealot is fine it is in line with the other races HACs perfectly.

Amarr:

Solo/Small gang: take your sac out

Large gang: take your beam zealot (if you fit pulses or bring a sac you are a noob)

Minmatar:

Solo/Small gang: take your vaga

Large gang: take your muninn with arties (your vaga is crap here)

Gallente:

Solo/Small gang: take a ishtar or blaster deimos

Large gang: take your rail deimos (we aren't going to wait for your ******* drones)

Caldari:

Solo/Small gang:

Large gang: your eagle and cerb are both awesome



In summation: Stop sucking and stop playing with EFT.

---

Originally by: Liang Nuren

---

Originally by: Grytok

---

Deimos get's 750 DPS in that manner but with 2x MagStab instead of 3 (Void M)

The tanks are pretty the same if you fit them both with a 4-Slot Tank. Zealot has some 300 HP more and a tad more resistances, but that does'nt make up for the low speed and higher CapUsage.

---

Meanwhile the Zealot has a huge optimal and the Deimos has to be within 5km...

I'm not sayin don't boost the Zealot (because we should), but comparing blaster DPS at 5km to Pulse DPS at 30km is just silly.

Liang

---

Originally by: Grimpak

---

Originally by: Grytok

---

stuff

---

you made 2 mistakes here:

first was regarding tankability of a deimos.

a tanked deimos is as useful as a half boat: you can't do half **** with it. the ship is solely designed for one purpose only and that is inflicting the most damage out in the shortest time possible in point-blank ranges.
some people nano it and it's fine tbh.

so in sum, the deimos is a point-blank gank ship that is as situationally limited as the zealot.

where's the mistake? please try to put the full potential out of the deimos at 15km range.
can't tackle at that range? well what are your gang buddies for?


2nd mistake was to underestimate the zealot, basing itself in damage only. Sure it deals the least damage of all HAC's at their optimal. But a Deimos needs to be at reaaly inside web range to get the fullest out of him. The ishtar is not so great as people say, considering how screwy drones can be. The vagabond will do **** all damage to you ("HAY LOOK AT ME DOIN' 100DPS AT 20KM RANGE WITH BARRAGE WHOOO!"). The Munnin lacks any tank at all, and in AC setups is just a poor man's vagabond (stabber is more effective at this role tbh). The Cerebrus amazing damage will only hit you if you're stupid enough to stick arround (and they don't have that much of a tank, really). The eagle will, at most, tickle you. The sacrilege can be a tough nut to *****, but is based himself arround a weapon system that is easily jammable, and the Zealot sucks in the damage type department.
But hey! At least the deimos dishes this ZOMGWTFPWNAGEGANKTASTIC! dps (at 2km range). The Ishtar is damn versatile (paper-thin and it's easier to shoehorn the titanic inside a... well, a shoe, than to fit it). The vagabond is fast (damage sucks tho). The Munnin can pump some serious alpha in an anti-support role (with zero tank to back it up), the Cerebrus can hit far for full damage (takes ages to hit anything), the Eagle is the only cruiser that can hit at 250km range ("OH GEE YOU ARE TICKLING ME WITH YOUR 250mm RAILS!"). The Sac can tank and shoot crap out of the sky like there's no tomorrow (watch out for thos ECM's tho), and the Zealot can hit for good damage at ranges that other ships simply can't (deimos), or instantly (cerebrus) (don't forget to bring friends tho).
Anywas as I said, don't underestimate the zealot. Sure it has some problems (could use a 5th turret, I concur), but besides that, it has a place, as many people here might be forgetting, or simply not seeing.

paper DPS from EFT is nice and is a good way to use as base to setup ships, but there are thing that EFT/QF can't replicate and can't take into account other things like the "supposed" roles that each ship has, so don't take it for granted, as many dps-addicts here do.

---

Originally by: Grytok

---

Deimos has no problems in dictating Range like the Zealot. Fit a Zealot with an MWD and you're capping out real fast. Keep in mind that you've only 240m¦ Cargo and no supporting drones.
If you web the Deimos, so that it can't operate in 2km right in your face... well I switch to Null, having no problems hitting you.

Also, a standard 4-Slot-tank on a Deimos is not that crappy, as you're saying, leaving you still with 2x MFS II supporting those 5x Neutron II.

---

Originally by: Grytok

---

Deimos has no problems in dictating Range like the Zealot. Fit a Zealot with an MWD and you're capping out real fast. Keep in mind that you've only 240m¦ Cargo and no supporting drones.
If you web the Deimos, so that it can't operate in 2km right in your face... well I switch to Null, having no problems hitting you.

Also, a standard 4-Slot-tank on a Deimos is not that crappy, as you're saying, leaving you still with 2x MFS II supporting those 5x Neutron II.

---

Originally by: Grimpak

---

Originally by: Grytok

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Deimos has no problems in dictating Range like the Zealot. Fit a Zealot with an MWD and you're capping out real fast. Keep in mind that you've only 240m¦ Cargo and no supporting drones.
If you web the Deimos, so that it can't operate in 2km right in your face... well I switch to Null, having no problems hitting you.

Also, a standard 4-Slot-tank on a Deimos is not that crappy, as you're saying, leaving you still with 2x MFS II supporting those 5x Neutron II.

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to fit any kind of above average tank in a deimos you will have to switch to electrons, and even with that 4 slot tank you will cap out pretty damn fast since blasters are not that cap friendly. Don't forget that the Deimos cap is not that famous tbh. If you fit an injector you will lose most of your tackling abilities. you will need a web to operate in blaster range, and you will need a 1pointer to keep him in place. Even in a gang you will need thos 2 modules plus the mwd to operate at top efficiency.
dedicating all your rig slots to grid rigs is also, imho, a waste of rig slots, since I could slap there more usefull things like CCC's or even polycarbs.

here's a mix&match setup using neutrons, 3 MFS, and med ECM drones (wich tbh can be much more usefull than drones), together with my skills (AWU at lvl4) that dishes arround 500dps with faction AM (void has too many penalties tbh):

5 neutrons
T2 mwd + T2 pointer + X5 web
T2 mar + T2 expl hardener + DCU II + 3 MFS
for rigs I have a grid rig and a CCC, giving me still 62 grid and 7 cpu free with this fitting

it caps out with everything running at arround 40 secs and even if I turn off the mwd it won't last long aswell.

sure I have like arround 15km range max with null, but the same thing that happens with the vagabond happens here with the deimos: the firepower is not that great at falloff ranges.

as you can see, the deimos is not that easy to handle and suffers from cap problems aswell.

I concede that the zealot could use a 5th turret and fitting stats changed to accomodate such change however.

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Originally by: Zubakis

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1. Your comparison is silly, you compare apple with oranges.

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Originally by: Grytok

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Zealot is not reliant on a Web, which makes it easier here, granted, but then there is the somewhat low damage for going solo vs. something bigger then a T1-Cruiser, which I can do even with an uninjected Deimos

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Originally by: Leviaxxan

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zealot - 465dps - Tier 1 varient, able to apply its slightly sup-par dps from RANGE using its (shock-horror) BONUSES, imho one of the more useable hacs, nannoed with pulses and tracking enhancers is one of the more efficiant dps'ers in any nano group.

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Originally by: Terianna Eri

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I would be happy if the Zealot got any of the following.
Significantly more CPU/Powergrid (I have to heavily faction-fit in order to throw MWD/Booster/Heavy Pulse/Reps/Heatsinks, more so than I've ever had to fit anything else ever)

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Originally by: Goumindong

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Edited by: Goumindong on 10/11/2007 12:23:45
Those are some pretty terrible fits for the Cerb, Eagle, and Muninn. I didnt really check the rest.

Also you have hybrid damage mods on your vagabond.

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Originally by: Goumindong

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If there is one thing the Zealot isnt lacking its powergrid. The thing has powergrid falling out of its rear. Its got so much powergrid and so much more powergrid than all the other comparable ships its ridiculous. The thing can nearly fit a rack of its highest turrets with an MWD and 1600 plate.

You could probably put a 5th turret on the thing and make no changes to its fitting profile the thing has so much powergrid.

Its got so much powergrid that there is space for a 5th Heavy beam laser after a full sniping fit. Its got over 600 powergrid left after fitting 4 pulse and an MWD. What in the world could you be possibly fitting that uses so much powergrid that you are having a hard time fitting it to your Zealot, Heavy Injectors? Large Cap Batteries?[actually only tough to fit due to CPU] LARs? 100mn mwds?

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Originally by: Grimpak

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Originally by: Zubakis

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Something about hacs:
Each race has 2 hacs, one of them is a short range ship the other is a long range ship. You just have to look at the bonuses to figure it out.

Amarr: Zealot (long), Sacri (short)
Minmatar: Munin (long), Vaga (short)
Caldari: Eagle (long), Cerb (should be short, but has a big range too)
Gallente: Ishtar (long with sentrys, but nobody use it so), Deimos (short)

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I'll go even farther as to put each ship in a unique role.

Zealot: med range gunboat
Sacrilege: short missile spewing hard nugget
Munnin: long range artillery support
Vagabond: hit-and-run skirmisher
Eagle: sniper
Cerebrus: missile platform
Ishar: multi-purpose drone platform
Deimos: point blank in-your-face damage dealer.


...this is how I classify them tho.

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Originally by: Grimpak

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Ma Raia'l, while I prefer a full tackling gear on short range ships, I must say that you are making a big mistake in not fitting webs on the short range ships, specially on the deimos since you will need it.

a mwd+injector+web is viable in a blaster ship if you're in a gang
a mwd+injector+1pointer is not viable even in a solo blaster ship since you can simply watch the guy mwd'ing out of your range or pretty much go back to the gate/dock.


also the cerberus setup is a bit meh. Fury missiles are only good if your'e engaging webbed BS'es due to their high penalties. Normal heavies or precisions are a better option here.

the beam version of the zealot works nicely for the role you want to use, while disregarding almost any sort of tank and go full 720's on the muninn seems to be a better way of using the ship.

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Originally by: Grytok

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Edited by: Grytok on 10/11/2007 13:45:44
Horrible fittings

EDIT: You can't make any suggestions without fitting rigs on a HAC. Thats why your setups fail IMHO.

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Originally by: DarK

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Wish medium range was useful in this game, instead of having eagles with ******* blasters on them and every ship using short range weapons. But no, close range gets to you too quickly and makes your railguns totally useless.

DAMAGE DAMAGE DAMAGE !!!

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Originally by: Bentula

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Is that with AWU 10? Or a 1mn mwd? After fitting 4 heavy pulse and a 10mn mwd i get about 480 pg free. -346 for dual rep, -150 for injector. Tilt. I need a fitting mod.

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Originally by: Goumindong

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Originally by: Bentula

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Is that with AWU 10? Or a 1mn mwd? After fitting 4 heavy pulse and a 10mn mwd i get about 480 pg free. -346 for dual rep, -150 for injector. Tilt. I need a fitting mod.

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Nope, just a typo, 600 before the mwd.

Not that that isnt freaking huge

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Originally by: Grytok

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Edited by: Grytok on 10/11/2007 13:45:44
Horrible fittings

EDIT: You can't make any suggestions without fitting rigs on a HAC. Thats why your setups fail IMHO.

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Originally by: Lisento Slaven

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Originally by: Grytok

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Edited by: Grytok on 10/11/2007 13:45:44
Horrible fittings

EDIT: You can't make any suggestions without fitting rigs on a HAC. Thats why your setups fail IMHO.

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Put two armor rep bonus rigs on his sac setup and you essentially have the same setup (-1 EANM +1 BCS) I use on my sacrilege for gate camping in low-sec.

You should not generalize your statement since the rigs are kind of just a "spice it up a bit" type of thing. Unless you're highly specializing the ship. I personally don't view rigs as becoming baseline/standard for setups just yet but some people think you can't launch without them apparently =P

The vaga with mag stabs is kind of sad though.

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Originally by: Goumindong

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Edited by: Goumindong on 10/11/2007 15:53:39
Dual repping isnt really for cruisers. The setup there is a bit ridiculous.

mwd, injector,
mar, mar

Its unnecessary and foolish.

How about

mwd, web, scram
mar, 800

or mwd, web, scram
rcu, 1600,

Or

mwd, web, scram
800, 800

There is lots to complain about, but powergrid isnt one of those things.

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Originally by: Bentula

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You know, ridiculous, was exactly what i thought when i noticed that this "cruiser" setup actually fits. Your going to engage that in your plated zealot? Duel rep is very desirable if it fits.

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Originally by: bundy bear

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(I know these setups arent always practical we are just calculating damage)

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