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Why is CCP a miserable failure with respect to Jita?

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Ademaro Imre Caldari Eye of God	Posted - 2007.11.10 21:36:00 - [1] I actually did need to go to Jita. And for the last 35 minutes - been stuck at a gate, in a station, unable to assemble a ship, or stuck entering the game, or purchases lagging 5 minutes. Is this just some aspect of the game that CCP is unwilling or incompetent to deal with? CCP is unable to handle a system of 709 players that are basically market trading?
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.10 21:39:00 - [2] Originally by: Ademaro Imre I actually did need to go to Jita. And for the last 35 minutes - been stuck at a gate, in a station, unable to assemble a ship, or stuck entering the game, or purchases lagging 5 minutes. Is this just some aspect of the game that CCP is unwilling or incompetent to deal with? CCP is unable to handle a system of 709 players that are basically market trading? Don't be an ass. It's not a simple problem to solve. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.10 21:41:00 - [3] Actually it is very easy but depends on whether the method is communally acceptable. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Shiner BockBeer Go Go Gadget ForumPostingAlt	Posted - 2007.11.10 21:41:00 - [4] I just bounced giddily through Jita on my way to Minmatar space. No problems at all. I even hopped and skipped and swung my picnic basket back and forth.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance	Posted - 2007.11.10 21:42:00 - [5] Computational power required for the number of players interacting is X^2, where X is the number of players, or slightly better when optimized. 100 Players = 100,000 computations 200 Players = 400,000 computations 400 Players = 1,600,000 computations 800 players = 6,400,000 computations You can see the problem here. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in ~~pink~~ Forum Warfare
Stitcher Caldari legion of qui	Posted - 2007.11.10 21:43:00 - [6] would you like some cheese with your whine? - The game is not the problem. The problem is that you are not adapting to the game.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.10 21:45:00 - [7] How can you tell, Tarminic? --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Peter VonThal Raygun Technologies	Posted - 2007.11.10 21:45:00 - [8] Sometime in 2008: CCP has new hardware and gives Jita the resources to handle 2100 people. 2200 people are in Jita and complaining about lag. It will always be a problem. IMO, it's going to be up to a percentage of players to perhaps take the effort to jump to another system to buy or sell something.
Kenneth McCoy Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.11.10 21:49:00 - [9] If I'm not mistaken, CCP is extremely well aware of the problem, and is in fact undergoing procedures to help the situation. Individuals coming on to the forums are crying about it every 45 minutes does nothing but **** off everyone around you. So knock it off, please.
Gealbhan Caldari The SAS The Kano Organisation	Posted - 2007.11.10 21:50:00 - [10] I can jump into and out of jita no problem, undocking included. What's my secret? Don't go there at peak times. "Concentrate all your fire on one target, when it is destroyed, move on to the next. That is how you secure victory". - Tactica Imperium.
Ademaro Imre Caldari Eye of God	Posted - 2007.11.10 21:54:00 - [11] Originally by: Kenneth McCoy If I'm not mistaken, CCP is extremely well aware of the problem, and is in fact undergoing procedures to help the situation. Individuals coming on to the forums are crying about it every 45 minutes does nothing but **** off everyone around you. So knock it off, please. my stuck character petition has been "in action" for 45 minutes. And I have been stuck there well over that amount of time.
Fscout	Posted - 2007.11.10 21:56:00 - [12] Edited by: Fscout on 10/11/2007 21:56:25 I love it when people come on the forums saying stuff like this. If you had any idea about how to program a game engine, game netcode, or just the slighest clue what you were talking about you would stop whining about "incompetance" when you clearly don't have a clue what you're on about. CCP/EVE holds the record for the max concurrent users in the same game environment, this is not something they've achieved via incompetance. It is not easy to get a thousand computers talking to each other over the internet in real time without lag. Why do you think other mmo's are sharded, why do you think most fps's have a max limit of 64 players? Writing netcode that can deal with 1000 simultaneous players the in same place is not easy funnily enough. However if you feel you can write better code than CCP's programmers, feel free to post it here to help them. That, or please stfu.
Kenneth McCoy Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.11.10 21:57:00 - [13] And I'm sure if the professionals could snap their fingures and fix the problem overnight, they would. So until they do, you might consider avoiding Jita at peak times. Or maybe the Eve Gods just hate you. /shrug.
Ademaro Imre Caldari Eye of God	Posted - 2007.11.10 21:59:00 - [14] Originally by: Fscout Edited by: Fscout on 10/11/2007 21:56:25 I love it when people come on the forums saying stuff like this. If you had any idea about how to program a game engine, game netcode, or just the slighest clue what you were talking about you would stop whining about "incompetance" when you clearly don't have a clue what you're on about. CCP/EVE holds the record for the max concurrent users in the same game environment, this is not something they've achieved via incompetance. 4 years to keep up with it. They can't. I don't care about the records. CCP is also getting the concurrent record of paying customers ina system they changed 2 years ago to reduce the market hubs. CCP is still failing with a system of people jumping in and out and trading.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance	Posted - 2007.11.10 22:00:00 - [15] Edited by: Tarminic on 10/11/2007 22:00:37 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire How can you tell, Tarminic? I'm a software developer, and we use what's called "Big O Notation" to describe the computational complexity of programs or algorithms within a program. I'll explain it simply, using collision detection as my example (which is only part of the required calculations): If you have ten people on a grid, you need to do various calculations to determine if anyone bounces off of each other. How do we know if they need to bounce off of each other? We need to check the position of each player relative to each other player. For example: Originally by: Simplified Representation of Collision Detection Is player 1 running into player 2? Is player 1 running into player 3? Is player 1 running into player 4? Is player 1 running into player 5? Is player 1 running into player 6? Is player 1 running into player 7? Is player 1 running into player 8? Is player 1 running into player 9? Is player 1 running into player 10? Is player 2 running into player 3? Is player 2 running into player 4? Is player 2 running into player 5? ... You can optimize this slightly by various techniques that no one here cares about enough to explain, but unfortunately the actual complexity of the algorithm (the X^2 part) can't really be changed. So you always see this kind of growth in complexity. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in ~~pink~~ Forum Warfare
Kenneth McCoy Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.11.10 22:01:00 - [16] No one is holding a gun to your g*****and forcing you to trade in Jita, buddy. I prefer Rens or Hek, myself.
Peter VonThal Raygun Technologies	Posted - 2007.11.10 22:05:00 - [17] Originally by: Ademaro Imre 4 years to keep up with it. They can't. I don't care about the records. CCP is also getting the concurrent record of paying customers ina system they changed 2 years ago to reduce the market hubs. CCP is still failing with a system of people jumping in and out and trading. Yes, they changed systems and routes so people didn't have to go through certain places. But for the most part the players chose to keep going to those places anyway.
Eulalinda Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.10 22:11:00 - [18] Originally by: Ademaro Imre Is this just some aspect of the game that CCP is unwilling or incompetent to deal with? Certainly unwilling, but maybe unable. The problem you highlighted has been around for years. The only way CCP will address it is if more people complain.
Cailais Amarr W A R	Posted - 2007.11.10 22:12:00 - [19] Originally by: Fscout Edited by: Fscout on 10/11/2007 21:56:25 I love it when people come on the forums saying stuff like this. If you had any idea about how to program a game engine, game netcode, or just the slighest clue what you were talking about you would stop whining about "incompetance" when you clearly don't have a clue what you're on about. CCP/EVE holds the record for the max concurrent users in the same game environment, this is not something they've achieved via incompetance. It is not easy to get a thousand computers talking to each other over the internet in real time without lag. Why do you think other mmo's are sharded, why do you think most fps's have a max limit of 64 players? Writing netcode that can deal with 1000 simultaneous players the in same place is not easy funnily enough. However if you feel you can write better code than CCP's programmers, feel free to post it here to help them. That, or please stfu. /signed. C. Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Dehumanisation - griefers are cool and if you are not a griefer, you do not belong here.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance	Posted - 2007.11.10 22:15:00 - [20] Originally by: Eulalinda Originally by: Ademaro Imre Is this just some aspect of the game that CCP is unwilling or incompetent to deal with? Certainly unwilling, but maybe unable. The problem you highlighted has been around for years. The only way CCP will address it is if more people complain. Trust me, it's unable. If CCP figures out a way to do it conveniently, they need to patent it and sell it to microsoft. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in ~~pink~~ Forum Warfare
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.11.10 22:17:00 - [21] Why is OP a miserable failure with respect to Life? Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Edited by: Surfin''s PlunderBunny on 04/11/2007 21:34:44 EDIT You know what, Tortun has this one under control...* *Basks in the chaos of this thread
Peter VonThal Raygun Technologies	Posted - 2007.11.10 22:17:00 - [22] Originally by: Eulalinda Originally by: Ademaro Imre Is this just some aspect of the game that CCP is unwilling or incompetent to deal with? Certainly unwilling, but maybe unable. The problem you highlighted has been around for years. The only way CCP will address it is if more people complain. They have addressed it. Many times. Fixing it without breaking the game as we know it right now is just not feasible. Until we get the supercomputers, anyway, which may come next year.
Pitt Bull Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.10 22:17:00 - [23] Ctrl+Q seemed to make the lag go away for me... try that.
Ademaro Imre Caldari Eye of God	Posted - 2007.11.10 22:19:00 - [24] Originally by: Fscout However if you feel you can write better code than CCP's programmers, feel free to post it here to help them. That, or please stfu. Yes. Get it for me and I will.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.10 22:20:00 - [25] Wow Tarminic. That looks very complicating. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Bumrush Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.10 22:20:00 - [26] Buy more RAM
Kenneth McCoy Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.11.10 22:21:00 - [27] lol. I'm sure they're constantly looking for superhuman coders that are able to singlehandedly solve the problems that a team of professionals have been working on for quite a while. Drop them a line, I bet they'd be glad to have you.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance	Posted - 2007.11.10 22:22:00 - [28] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Wow Tarminic. That looks very complicating. Well that's why they make you go to school for for years before people will hire to you write software. Don't let me talk about it too much though, I'm a gigantic nerd and I'm perfectly willing to discuss all the nuances of programming difficulties. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in ~~pink~~ Forum Warfare
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates	Posted - 2007.11.10 22:22:00 - [29] Have a look at the latest EVE-TV - I think it covers a presentation on CCPs plans. One of them involves upgrading the cluster with a fast data interconnect, which ... well, basically makes it a supercomputer, meaning that it's possible to distribute the workload that 'jita' presents across more physical hardware. At the moment, that's not possible - the 'bits' that make up a solar system need to communicate, and therefore cannot be farmed out onto separate processors. Which means there'll always be a point where Jita gets too busy for the server to be able to cope with. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? GMP and TNP
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.10 22:24:00 - [30] Tarminic, is it possible to make it x^0.5 or x? --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.

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