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lvl 4 missions vs ratting -- which makes more ISK?

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pyr8t	Posted - 2007.11.12 05:34:00 - [1] Which yields more ISK? Ratting in 0.0 or lvl 4 missions? I'm looking for some advice. Currently, I'm attempting to work my way up to a lvl 4 agent (because the $$$ is better) but the process is slow and frustrating me to the point where I'm considering giving up (even with social skills). Generally-speaking, how much ISK can I expect to earn by doing the average run-of-the-mill LVL 4 mission. And secondly, estimate how much ISK ratting in 0.0 will yield versus doing lvl 4 missions (on a per-hour basis).
Rewind12 THE KNIGHTS OF CYDONIA	Posted - 2007.11.12 08:17:00 - [2] Depends on what sec. your 0.0 has, how negative is it? A -1.0 system is clearly better that missions. If you're in drone region, no isk to see there. My advice, if you're in a nice 0.0 don't leave.
Henry Fredyericus Gallente H.F. Enterprises Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.12 08:49:00 - [3] Edited by: Henry Fredyericus on 12/11/2007 08:50:06 Edited by: Henry Fredyericus on 12/11/2007 08:49:53 It all depends on the stage setup. For ratting you have to work up the fields to get higher paying battleships. For missions you have to get the ones, what have more high-reward battleships. I personally prefer missions as there the stages are already set. Originally by: Three Wise Men Don't teach pigs to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pigs...
FT Diomedes Gallente Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2007.11.12 10:42:00 - [4] A nicely pruned system in the Drones region (the only place I have experience ratting) can be very lucrative. Even at the alloy prices the corp sets, which are much lower than Jita (I have no problem with this, the corp has to do well), ratting is more profitable than Level 4 missions. Off the top of my head, if I really focus, and I get decent missions, I can make around 25-30 million an hour running level 4 missions under ideal circumstances. I can do better than this ratting, under ideal circumstances. I still prefer to do missions because I don't have to worry about roaming gangs interrupting my work, I don't have to worry about other people killing some of the spawns in a system I took the time to prune (it is their right, after all, unless I am already in that belt) and I find missions more fun. Still, if you can get a few hours of uninterrupted ratting, you can make some serious ISK. ------------ Improvize. Adapt. Overcome.
Yukisa	Posted - 2007.11.12 11:06:00 - [5] Originally by: Rewind12 Depends on what sec. your 0.0 has, how negative is it? A -1.0 system is clearly better that missions. If you're in drone region, no isk to see there. My advice, if you're in a nice 0.0 don't leave. Droning for alloys earns more isk than ratting. As for -1.0 systems clearly better.. no way. All the -1.0 systems have a lot of ratters. They often share space with a huge alliance. In theory if u can have the system all to yourself, sure its great isk. L4 missions still is a great isk earner with minimal risk.
abbagabba Gallente Monster Raving Loonies	Posted - 2007.11.12 11:54:00 - [6] Originally by: FT Diomedes A nicely pruned system What is 'pruning'? I want to grow my own BS garden!
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.11.12 12:02:00 - [7] 0.0 ratting breaks more or less even with level 4 missions after you take into account general 0.0 inefficency (need to get ammo, ocasional hostile, etc). Rough ballpark is around 30 mil / h. Peak rewards can wary a lot from average. In 0.0 you need to be vigilant to avoid ganks and for max efficency need to work system in. In level 4 missions you need to have 'good' setup for good income (faction/T2) while in 0.0 you can do with just T2 as good or even better. Missions can't compete against 0.0 below true sec -0.7 and lower tho. And ofc take it with grain of salt. It's based on personal experience, but that experience is somewhat old (a bit over year has passed) and a lot has happened to game inbetween.
FT Diomedes Gallente Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2007.11.12 15:56:00 - [8] Edited by: FT Diomedes on 12/11/2007 15:57:58 Originally by: abbagabba Originally by: FT Diomedes A nicely pruned system What is 'pruning'? I want to grow my own BS garden! Pruning means you go into a system and promptly and quickly kill all the non-triple BS spawns, including any at the gates. Then, you can start chaining spawns so that every spawn in the system is a triple BS spawn. To do this you make sure to leave at least one smaller ship alive in each triple BS spawn. For easier identification, damage one small rat in each spawn into structure, but don't kill it. Then you know which spawns need to be obliterated, and which you are waiting for the BSs to reappear. ------------ Improvize. Adapt. Overcome.
Liam Liam	Posted - 2007.11.12 16:16:00 - [9] IT all depends ... if your sort of low on skills and fly a cheap ship set up lvl 4's can be quite time consuming and net around ú5m an hour If you have good skills pimped out ship and an alt to follow behind either helping or salvaging you can fly through them. ú15m an hour is possible Ratting I always hear ú40m an hour but never ever make anywhere near that lucky to make ú10m an hour most times.. what with hostiles and competition, yes where I rat I've rarely got a whole system to myself never mind several ( I've also lost more ships ratting than missioning not to the rats of course.) The other thing to take into account is I'll mission in a full set of +4 implants but would never rat in them cos I might have to pvp at a minutes notice so your skill training will take longer ratting. Plus you get your implants cheaper missioning from lp store they usually cost a lot out in 0.0
Castra Noor	Posted - 2007.11.13 08:48:00 - [10] Ratting is better. Next to all that bounties, rare spawns and good loot you can loot some extremely expensive officer items, if you are lucky and get an officer spawn. An estamel invulnerability field for example costs 10-15 billion isk, if you loot that this makes up a year of missionrunning.

Moghydin Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation	Posted - 2007.11.13 13:30:00 - [11] Ratting can bring you more if you're lucky. Faction/officer spawns drop some nice loot. But that is a big IF. Overall I've been ratting for more than a year during my Eve life. I've seen faction spawns 3 times only and never an officer spawn. I'd go with missions although they drop pure crap, you can safely do them without worrying about roaming ganksquads, finding an empty system for yourself or dealing with those that think they own the system as private property and trying to smuggle good loot 30 jumps to Empire to sell it. And btw, in my experience, 0.0 ratting gave me approx. the same as lvl 4 missions. Press alt+F4 to reduce lag
PauZotoh Zhaan Teylas Inc. Rare Faction	Posted - 2007.11.13 14:31:00 - [12] Well I must say ratting in 0.0 is better (but more booooring) You not only get more salvage components (25% less from missions), but you get better loot (sell or refine and sell) plus big change getting comanders (faction) or officers. You can easy make 1b ratting with one char in 0.0 and you dont have to spend all day doing it. Just rat salvage and sell loot. Atleast I got that much from ratting in stain without faction/officer npc's. But its booring warp to belt F1-F8 .... wait... warp to belt F1-F8 ...
Umamasyean	Posted - 2007.11.13 15:49:00 - [13] The missioning LP is also worth something...if you use it get valuble items to sell, I would guess.
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.11.13 16:02:00 - [14] IMO, the only problem with level 4 missions is the time commitment. With ratting you can go out, kill 1-2 spawns and re-dock to go about your real life if need be. With a mission, you kinda have to finish it and it may take 20 minutes to a couple of hours depending on what resources you bring to the table and whether or not you loot/salvage. I never understood why level 4s are so long....it doesn't make it any harder, just means I have to bring a bigger ship and commit way more time to it. -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes
Moghydin Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation	Posted - 2007.11.13 16:28:00 - [15] Edited by: Moghydin on 13/11/2007 16:29:05 Originally by: Xaen IMO, the only problem with level 4 missions is the time commitment. With ratting you can go out, kill 1-2 spawns and re-dock to go about your real life if need be. With a mission, you kinda have to finish it and it may take 20 minutes to a couple of hours depending on what resources you bring to the table and whether or not you loot/salvage. I never understood why level 4s are so long....it doesn't make it any harder, just means I have to bring a bigger ship and commit way more time to it. Yes, many lvl 4 missions are too long. I remember on one mission I nearly fell asleep, it was a tedious task of wiping one group of rats after another, and they seem never to end. Ratting looks a better option if you don't have a lot of time to commit, but it only seems so. Why? Because 0.0 life is much more than ratting. But tbh, neither gives REALLY good ISK. Really good ISK is for those who was lucky in the lottery some time ago, but that's way off topic for this forum. As I said in the above post, I'd go for missions. Press alt+F4 to reduce lag
pandymen Caldari Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade	Posted - 2007.11.13 17:52:00 - [16] Ratting is far and above better...assuming you are in 0.0 systems that are relatively secure...so you don't spend long periods of time docked/cloaked. And if you know how to encourage faction spawns, it can be even better (hint: don't chain). If you really want mission style gaming, just do the cosmic anomalies in 0.0. There are usually plenty about, and the "stage is already set" so to speak.
Umamasyean	Posted - 2007.11.14 09:55:00 - [17] Originally by: Xaen IMO, the only problem with level 4 missions is the time commitment. With ratting you can go out, kill 1-2 spawns and re-dock to go about your real life if need be. With a mission, you kinda have to finish it and it may take 20 minutes to a couple of hours depending on what resources you bring to the table and whether or not you loot/salvage. I never understood why level 4s are so long....it doesn't make it any harder, just means I have to bring a bigger ship and commit way more time to it. I thought you get a week to do it. Unless you really want that small cash bonus.
BlackMatrix Gallente Jazz Associates R i s e	Posted - 2007.11.15 13:21:00 - [18] Originally by: Xaen IMO, the only problem with level 4 missions is the time commitment. I never understood why level 4s are so long....it doesn't make it any harder, just means I have to bring a bigger ship and commit way more time to it. This is because level 4's were always intended to be done in groups. Now we all know they can be solo'd ... however try doing them in a group of 5 ... they last 5-10 minutes max.
Peiagh	Posted - 2007.11.17 22:29:00 - [19] Originally by: Umamasyean Originally by: Xaen IMO, the only problem with level 4 missions is the time commitment. With ratting you can go out, kill 1-2 spawns and re-dock to go about your real life if need be. With a mission, you kinda have to finish it and it may take 20 minutes to a couple of hours depending on what resources you bring to the table and whether or not you loot/salvage. I never understood why level 4s are so long....it doesn't make it any harder, just means I have to bring a bigger ship and commit way more time to it. I thought you get a week to do it. Unless you really want that small cash bonus. Only problem is the spawns reset after the downtime so you have to start all over again I think an important point that was raised by a previous poster but seems to have been overlooked was the implants. Whilst mission running you can quite happily have the most expensive set in you can afford. Not many ratters use +4's and imo that is part of the cost of ratting in 0.0
Kadoes Khan	Posted - 2007.11.18 06:07:00 - [20] Originally by: Umamasyean The missioning LP is also worth something...if you use it get valuble items to sell, I would guess. With some simple time spent researching the market you can easily get 2000 ISK per point of LP. With decent trade skills and a good mission ship I think missioning is a better option, especially considering the risk involved is very low. -=^=- "Someday the world will recognize the genius in my insanity."

Leora Nomen	Posted - 2007.11.18 09:02:00 - [21] I've timed myself and using a 6m sp character in a cruiser I've made exactly 20 million ISK in one hour straight up ratting in a -0.18 system that wasn't under NPC sovereignty. This was income from bounties and loot I gathered and later sold, but I did not salvage. I also did not find any special spawns and thought the loot I gathered was average, not poor but not very good either. I do not think I could have made this much with the same character on missions, not to mention that it would have taken me 100+ missions and many hours to get to level 4's while you don't have to do anything to get to 0.0 space and once there you can log off and on in the same system for days to not travel through gate camps and such. However in 0.0 space you also spend some time with your alliance defending the said space, if you live out of POSs might even have to spend some time taking care of those. Overall I think an average ratter can make more money doing missions in empire rather than belt ratting in 0.0 just because he can put all his time and effort into making ISK in empire and not worry about anything else, while in 0.0 if you're part of some corp or alliance you will have other distractions. guide to game time codes
Jason Edwards	Posted - 2007.11.18 12:10:00 - [22] Well it really depends where you are in 0.0. Some factions drop better loot typically. Second obviously is true sec. Take for example. I was a super newb 4mil sp pilot who couldn't even fly battleships. I was in a serp 0.0 area(true sec -.65). As in they were the enemies. I sort of effectively passively tanked against serp. Well in that they couldn't break my tank despite terrible skills. I could effectively tank and eventually kill the triple big bs spawns. Unfortunately at the time I could tank but not kill shadow serp spawns. Now there's obviously 2 ways to going about ratting. One is the kill everything while the other is leave the little guys to get them to spawn the big groups. I killed everything. I got 3 shadow serp spawns in the first week. While some of my corpmates did the song and dance of killing just the big guys and leaving the small guys. They never got any shadow serp spawns and only 1 hauler spawn. Now looking back... I honestly never made the same amount of money I do now with lvl 4 missions. If I found out what the shadow serp spawns dropped... most likely would have been a much different change. Also given a pilot and ship that could kill far more efficiently would change that also. Even then... once you do factor in the inefficiency of 0.0 and frankly the cost of fuel and such involved. I think hi sec mission running is more efficient at isk earning. The cons obviously being the huge amount of wasted time in getting to lvl 4 agents, and frankly the fact that it forces you to kill lots and lots of frigates and cruisers at no real value. Or even the factions that give no bounty... drones and such for ex. Quote: This is because level 4's were always intended to be done in groups. Now we all know they can be solo'd ... however try doing them in a group of 5 ... they last 5-10 minutes max. You can solo lvl 4s very quickly. There are people out there with a ganking domi setup with sentry drones. They use tech 2 praetors vs blood raider blockade. It eats away blockade very quickly and you complete it in 15-20 minutes. You than jump in there quick with a salvager and clean up. You just earnt lots of isk very quickly.
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.11.18 13:31:00 - [23] In my experience (missioning for Amarr agents, ratting vs. Serpentis and Angels) it is like this: Ratting in a decent truesec gives you good rewards (I would guess 20 mil per hour) for low investment, and the chance to hit mother lodes in haulers/commanders/officers. With good salvage like angels drop, the number actually goes up somewhat too. Missioning in a faction/officer pimped gankship (2 bil + setups) gives you even better rewards (averages around 30 mil per hour, with peaks at 70 mil for a handful of missions), but requires quite the investment. If you could rat in the pimped mission ship, the rewards would be a lot higher too (but you would have to be insane to do that in 0.0), while obviously the rewards in lesser ships for missions drop quite a bit. All in all, I would say that ratting is a bit more profitable if you hit your fair share of special spawns, and it requires a lot less investment in isk and time, but for any kind of efficiency you need a relatively safe system and always have to watch your back. Missioning is a bit less rewarding and requires a huge investment in time as well as isk to rake in serious money, but it is a lot safer and relaxed. Personally I have to admit that I did not really run any missions ever since I started ratting in Tenerifis. This is mainly due to silly wardecs than due to any isk concerns though. All in all I would say the balance between ratting and missioning is quite okay. Obviously those people who enjoy ruining other peoples days will disagree, but they might just slightly biased. There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Tycoon inc	Posted - 2007.11.18 19:37:00 - [24] Mission Vs Ratting? If you are able to do lvl 4 missions by yourself and quickly (via no longer than 20-25 minutes) or depends on the mission and rat amounts, you will break even with ratting in 0.0 -1.0 Also you need to take into account the LP's you are earning so maybe your loseing 5M isk an hour during the week right? you play maybe 20 hours a week, so thats 100M you missed right? Ow look my agent just offered me a Faction BS... Well i bet i could sell that Faction ship for ow... 250 or more depending. Lv 4 missions out way ratting in the viability in accessability, stability, security, and long run bonuses. Then again ive always like 10/10 complex running with a 5-10 man gang and fighters so ehh... each to his own i suppose.


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