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Its Official: The Majority are Getting SHAFTED!

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Mortok Tristan	Posted - 2007.11.13 11:15:00 - [31] To The OP, The statistics are based on a SNAPSHOT Taken BEFORE DT !!!!! It means NOTHING !!! So stop whining already !!
Gealbhan Caldari The SAS The Kano Organisation	Posted - 2007.11.13 11:16:00 - [32] Originally by: Omega Man It is even WORSE than the OP states. Just look at the figures again. About 200k of the 433k ships are rookie ships and shuttles. Neither ship is well known for its mining / ratting / mission / pvp prowess. It can hardly be fair that the most common ship in the universe is so useless. Can we perhaps buff shuttles up to say Battlecruiser capability and give noobship the same sort of role as Commandships. This will help the game no end. I tripped over the sarcasm in that post and hurt my pancreas... No seriously to the OP: Let CCP bump up 0.0 because it suits people like myself who have been playing a bit (8 months) and are moving out to 0.0 because Empire gets boring really fast once your pvp skills etc are "up there". "Concentrate all your fire on one target, when it is destroyed, move on to the next. That is how you secure victory". - Tactica Imperium.
Cailais Amarr W A R	Posted - 2007.11.13 11:41:00 - [33] Taken as a snap shot just after DT iirc: You'd need multiple snap shots over time to determine if this was a statistical norm, or an anomoly. The time is important as we might expect a good % of the player base to log on trading alts (etc) during quiter periods in Empire, to take advantage of fewer low sec camps or simply because low sec / 0.0 hasn't 'warmed up' yet. While is true that a good % of the player base will (at any given point in time) be more likley to be conducting 'pve' or rather not pvp'ing its a false assumption to believe that this is what they will always do. Your second assumption that 'pvp' doesn't occur in high sec is equally flawed - what % of the empire population is actually at war? Ship and more importantly pod kills over a 24 hour period suggest that actually empire wars (and thus pvp) are endemic, and intense across high sec. Finally the new Trinity changes comprise of drone changes, marauders, UI changes, graphics improvements, and EW frigates: all pertinent to high sec. Only the Black ops ships and the Carrier changes are 0.0 specific. Your assumptions are therefore blatantly skewed and thus your argument for high sec arenas fataly flawed. C. C. Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Dehumanisation - griefers are cool and if you are not a griefer, you do not belong here.
Altaree Red Frog Investments Blue Sky Consortium	Posted - 2007.11.13 11:47:00 - [34] The snapshot WAS at DT but it looked at ALL players, even those not logged in. I see some people missing this little point. The biggest skew is how people end their day. Do all of low sec and 0.0 run for empire space before they log off for a while? Does everyone switch out of their combat ships into shuttles? How many low SP alts are in cyno networks or have other non-empire positions? I know there aren't many, but with these numbers it won't take many to have an influence. Then again, I would like to see ALL characters with less than 2-3M SP removed from these stats.
Duncan Bannatyne BioDyne Industries	Posted - 2007.11.13 11:54:00 - [35] Originally by: burek You could look at it this way, high sec offers enough already to keep the 78% living there, staying there :) Therefore, CCP is balancing. Well said. Side note: Curzon, your an idiot. Duncan Bannatyne The Dragons Are Taking Over...
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.11.13 12:00:00 - [36] Don't you think that these changes are designed to encourage people to low-sec/0.0? Bear in mind that I have 5 alts, 3 of whom are based permanently in empire. A lot of players will have active alts, who have not left the safety of empire. It's quite simply disproportionate. But not in the way you are bandwagoning. What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!
ry ry StateCorp The State	Posted - 2007.11.13 12:57:00 - [37] Edited by: ry ry on 13/11/2007 13:01:23 Curzon, if you take 'proper' pvp out and replace it with arena combat, all you're left with is a trading game, and the opportunity for the terminally e-peentastic to battle to be THE GREATEST PVPER IN EVE HISTORY!1!! or some such nonsence. it'd defeat the whole point of eve. if you genuinely don't want to play a game where you might fall victim to non-consensual PvP, i'm sure there are others you would enjoy. ps. i got you this for xmas...
Ormen Tuttle Caldari Intergalactic Amalgamated Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.13 13:08:00 - [38] Quote: That means that 78% of all the players in Eve are PvE oriented, and live in highsec. The various other statistics go quite some distance in confirming it. You are assuming that everyone in high sec are carebears. The fact is there are several corporations that live in high sec, but who are very pvp oriented and conduct both high sec and low sec/null sec wars with their neighbors. Some of the mercenary corps also occupy high sec areas, but offer services that include low sec/null sec operations. These prefer not to deal with the hassle of operating POSs in null sec so they can occupy and hold nul sec areas. I've been in low sec and null sec and have found that I make a ton more isk in high sec so I live in high sec and operate in low sec/null sec when I want to pvp or participate in high sec wars or even do some mining in low sec/null sec when my corp can provide security. Ormen Tuttle
Ares Lightfeather Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.13 13:09:00 - [39] Originally by: ry ry (...) Reading comprenhension lvl 1 needed much ? What curzon proposes is to replace the loot stealing mechanisms used to have consensual pvp in high sec by a CCP-made mechanisms... In other word : - no changes at all in low and 0.0 sec. - easier to PvP in high sec. Doesn't change the fact that his conclusion is wrong, CCP shouldn't care about high sec that is profitable enough to attract 78% of people there, and should do exactly what they are doing now, try to attract more people to low and 0.0 sec. -- Siggie ! Come back here ! -- Originally by: Victor Valka Originally by: MotherMoon well a drone UI is a bit of an artist job Drone AI is obviously done by an artist too. One that is heavily into abstract
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.13 13:13:00 - [40] on my 2 accounts i have 2 chars in 0.0 and 4! in highsec (trade & industry alts). im sure this looks somehow similar on all accounts havin theyre mains in 0.0.
Danzig256k Caldari Mortal Devastating Kin	Posted - 2007.11.13 13:14:00 - [41] Originally by: Curzon Dax Well, the link I just posted in my OP is how I suggest we get the other 78% of the population to engage in PvP. =) i think some folks just aren't interested in it. dunno about other folks but i put in a full week at work, i don't really feel like working the rest of the week to replace boats and regain sec status after a day of popping indy's in hork. well that's my 2 isk worth.
Darken Two Gallente Cruororis Consors Conlegium Ivy League	Posted - 2007.11.13 13:15:00 - [42] Originally by: Ares Lightfeather Originally by: ry ry (...) Reading comprenhension lvl 1 needed much ? What curzon proposes is to replace the loot stealing mechanisms used to have consensual pvp in high sec by a CCP-made mechanisms... In other word : - no changes at all in low and 0.0 sec. - easier to PvP in high sec. Doesn't change the fact that his conclusion is wrong, CCP shouldn't care about high sec that is profitable enough to attract 78% of people there, and should do exactly what they are doing now, try to attract more people to low and 0.0 sec. If people are offered a choice between monkey turd and horse turd for breakfast, the fact that 78% chose Monkey turd doesn't make it automatically the best kind of cereal. "What curzon proposes is to replace the loot stealing mechanisms used to have consensual pvp in high sec by a CCP-made mechanisms..." What does this statemnet mean? you want CCP to start making artificial boundries? Whats next? we get a choice if we want to have death penalties or not ? If you want to have a well defined and linera world, there's plenty of choice in the MMO market. Please go somewhere else and stop trying to ruin this one. Originally by: Blind Fear Generally, when trying to be a puppetmaster, it is considered good form not to wrap the strings around your neck and choke yourself.
Lazuran Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation	Posted - 2007.11.13 13:23:00 - [43] From looking at the replies in this thread, I'd say the whole EVE population is frustrated and angry and they're venting their emotions on the forums... Personally, I don't care about all the shiny / nerfy stuff CCP is waving at us, everyone knows that the biggest problems at the moment are lag and the crappy client UI. All the new content stuff isn't going to change that, so why bother speculating / whining about it? "...been designed for one purpose and one purpose only. Imagine a handful of repair drones pouring from the carebear's mouth. Now imagine they have um, nothing." -Unknown Hel redesigner (2007)
Red Dot'Clicking	Posted - 2007.11.13 13:24:00 - [44] Perhaps the answer is to make control of null sec harder so players can go there without someone saying "this is my system". The non empire spaces are where people should mount expeditions to. They always come back to sell anyhow. The real problem is people living in 0.0. This should be made far more difficult. By all means allow a corp to construct a pos in a single luctrative system. But thats the limit. A remote outpost they can use like a mountain lodge. Since most of 0.0 is free for all. The high sec miners would gather some guards and head down for fat profits. The pirates would get thier chance on them too.
Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services The Acquisition	Posted - 2007.11.13 13:24:00 - [45] If the PVE content is "more fun and invigorating," why does it need work? If 0.0 only houses 9% of the population, it needs some lovin'. <Customary Amarr whine cleverly worked into the context of whatever we're discussing>. But really, just taking a snapshot @ DT isn't going to give you an accurate assessment of how the population is distributed anyway. Then again, apparently I'm a member of an overly vocal minority.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.13 13:28:00 - [46] I honestly do not know why you people are mad over the OP. Honestly, the OP has valid points because the statistics are taken from reliable sources and he is forwarding arguments on those facts. I do not see the OP's point of view is any different from players posting DPS graphs and put forward their interesting points. The way I see it, people flogging the OP in not a nice way are pots calling the kettle black. I am all for arena combat because arenas won't affect low and null secs dwellers. More likely arenas would encourage empire dwellers to live in low and null secs. My 0.01 ISK. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
oniplE NED-Clan R i s e	Posted - 2007.11.13 13:32:00 - [47] like it says in the OP: "a HUGE leap of faulty assumption " aka bull.. x
3rdD Dave Gallente Deadly Addiction	Posted - 2007.11.13 13:37:00 - [48] The only safe space in EVE is in 0.0 IMHO.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.11.13 13:38:00 - [49] Originally by: Mortok Tristan The statistics are based on a SNAPSHOT Taken BEFORE DT !!!!! It means NOTHING Exactly. We are talking about the amount of people in each area at a single period in time. Not how many people live there permanently. And the numbers can be due to many many factors. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Winterblink Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.11.13 13:40:00 - [50] Originally by: Lazuran From looking at the replies in this thread, I'd say the whole EVE population is frustrated and angry and they're venting their emotions on the forums... But the forums (and certainly not the people in this single thread) don't represent the whole EVE population, just the minority who choose to participate here. The OP is certainly making some assumptions, something which the QEN specifically addresses with "However, note that this is a single snapshot which we cannot draw any strong conclusions from". One snapshot does not indicate a trend. Others have stated this, but there's certainly a substantial amount of PVP occurring in Empire space. Something not included in the QEN is, at the time of the snapshot, how many Empire wars were currently active. One could make the not-so-out-there assumption that a fair portion of those wars would be directly impacting a certain amount of those high security dwellers. warp drive active \| nature vraie
Darken Two Gallente Cruororis Consors Conlegium Ivy League	Posted - 2007.11.13 13:57:00 - [51] Originally by: Ares Lightfeather Originally by: Darken Two "What curzon proposes is to replace the loot stealing mechanisms used to have consensual pvp in high sec by a CCP-made mechanisms..." What does this statemnet mean? you want CCP to start making artificial boundries? Whats next? we get a choice if we want to have death penalties or not ? If you want to have a well defined and linera world, there's plenty of choice in the MMO market. It means, among other things, that you cannot read, nor click on a simple link in the OP, and that you enjoy flaming people without having the slightest clue of what you're speaking about. Quote: Please go somewhere else and stop trying to ruin this one. There is no way I'll go where I have a chance to meet you. I want no change to low, 0.0 sec, and easier access to pvp in high sec. MOAR PVP. You're preventing me from asking for more pvp in Eve, so, I have to answer you : Hello kitty online : that way. LOL You want more PvP by having carebear arenas where you caress each otehr with lasers is it? You're such a hardcore PvPer Oh my I can't stop laughing. Anyways, we already have arenas. It's called "Empire Wars" and you get teh chance to shoot a whole bunch of people for a nominal fee. Originally by: Blind Fear Generally, when trying to be a puppetmaster, it is considered good form not to wrap the strings around your neck and choke yourself.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.13 13:57:00 - [52] Edited by: Gamesguy on 13/11/2007 13:58:56 Originally by: Curzon Dax So...9% of players live in 0.0 and 13% of players live in lowsec. Lets take a HUGE leap of faulty assumption and presume that not a single one of them are carebears. Every single 0.0 person I know has at least one empire alt, most have several. For example I have 2 characters that I regularly take into 0.0(although one of them spend half its time in empire), and 4 other characters that are empire alts. If you look at the statistic instead of jumping to conclusions, you'll see that almost 60% of characters in eve are under 1 mil SP. Since the average number of trial characters is a little under 10% of eve, we can assume the other 50% are alts. So of that 79% in highsec, half of that are alts, now some maybe alts of other empire dwellers, but many, MANY, will be alts of people who live in lowsec/0.0. I was surprised by the lack of pirates in this game actually, there really arent many people with negative sec, only like 3k out of 400k are below -3... Goes to show how greatly exaggerated the whole "lowsec is pirate infested" argument is.
Ares Lightfeather Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.13 14:00:00 - [53] Edited by: Ares Lightfeather on 13/11/2007 14:02:50 Originally by: Darken Two LOL You want more PvP by having carebear arenas where you caress each otehr with lasers is it? You're such a hardcore PvPer Oh my I can't stop laughing. Anyways, we already have arenas. It's called "Empire Wars" and you get teh chance to shoot a whole bunch of people for a nominal fee. So, we could have more way to shoot each other, and you're saying that you want to stay at the state the game is now ? What a "real" PvPer you are, trying to prevent people to create more way to shoot each other. But that's derailing the thread. Your point of view and mine are but a repetition of what is in the thread curzon linked... -- Siggie ! Come back here ! -- Originally by: Victor Valka Originally by: MotherMoon well a drone UI is a bit of an artist job Drone AI is obviously done by an artist too. One that is heavily into abstract
Darken Two Gallente Cruororis Consors Conlegium Ivy League	Posted - 2007.11.13 14:03:00 - [54] Originally by: Ares Lightfeather Edited by: Ares Lightfeather on 13/11/2007 14:00:37 Originally by: Darken Two Originally by: Ares Lightfeather LOL You want more PvP by having carebear arenas where you caress each otehr with lasers is it? You're such a hardcore PvPer Oh my I can't stop laughing. Anyways, we already have arenas. It's called "Empire Wars" and you get teh chance to shoot a whole bunch of people for a nominal fee. So, we could have more way to shoot each other, and you're saying that you want to stay at the state the game is now ? What a "real" PvPer you are, trying to prevent people to create more way to shoot each other. But that's derailing the thread. Your point of view and mine are but a repetition of what is in the thread curzon linked... No I'm saying arenas are an artificial and restricting construct that will ruin some of the flavor of EvE's PvP system. Unless the Arenas we pockets of space where anyone could intrude, you have no insurance and ship loss was guaranteed. In which case, I'd be all for it. Is that what you were advocating or were you advocating arenas like the one that exists in every other lame PVE MMO. Originally by: Blind Fear Generally, when trying to be a puppetmaster, it is considered good form not to wrap the strings around your neck and choke yourself.
Ares Lightfeather Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.13 14:06:00 - [55] Darken two, it is what is proposed. -- Siggie ! Come back here ! -- Originally by: Victor Valka Originally by: MotherMoon well a drone UI is a bit of an artist job Drone AI is obviously done by an artist too. One that is heavily into abstract
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.11.13 14:13:00 - [56] Wow, that's awful, but not terribly surprising given their past track record. I'd always thought it was odd that there were all these modules that were completely useless in PvE due to rats cheating. And I'd always supposed that there were a lot of carebears, but damn. This makes the fact that there are never any high-sec research slots open all the more ridiculous. I've said it before and I'll say it again: [ 2007.11.12 17:22:16 ] (combat) CCP's Lack of Perspective II beam perfectly strike's CCP's Foot, wrecking for 23423090.27 USD. Perhaps I should give up on my year long campaign to get the GUI fixed and just make that my sig. -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes
Darken Two Gallente Cruororis Consors Conlegium Ivy League	Posted - 2007.11.13 14:18:00 - [57] Originally by: Ares Lightfeather Edited by: Ares Lightfeather on 13/11/2007 14:08:07 Darken two, it is what is proposed, except for people intruding. Ship are lost, and high-sec only. Yea sure if there's no insurance and ship destruction guaranteed, why not. Originally by: Blind Fear Generally, when trying to be a puppetmaster, it is considered good form not to wrap the strings around your neck and choke yourself.
Aakron Filthy Scum	Posted - 2007.11.13 14:32:00 - [58] For the 2x combat characters that I have, which operate in lowsec/0.0, I have 6x other characters that never leave highsec, scouting, checking market prices, making money, engaging in industry. The figures are heavily skewed, if alts and highsec characters could be associated with a lowsec/0.0, or highsec merc/empire war pvper, I would hope that the number of players interested in combat and lowsec still outweighs those who are only interested in living in highsec. ---
Arenis Xemdal Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.13 14:38:00 - [59] Its very simple, empire offers enough money that you can grind for all your character-specific achievements in a reasonable amount of time. Nearly every single in empire you ask will say something along the lines of "when we have enough ISK, we will try 0.0". At one point in time, mining low end ore was all you could do in high sec, and it still had plenty of people in it doing that and trading goods. Thats all it should be for, because it takes a pretty massive suspension of disbelief to accept that tens of thousands of pirate ships could infiltrate empire on a daily basis just so you could blow them up. I don't understand why there is a middleground such as lowsec if CCP isn't going to force people to at least go there to be able to progress. Curzon Dax, you are making a classic carebear fallacy. -First, is your assumption that majority means anything in EVE, when it quite clearly isn't a democracy. -Second is the assumption that CCP isn't putting high end content in 0.0 to entice YOU to finally leave empire, and not satisfy the existing 0.0 crowd. -Third assumption is that the pvp system is broken because most people would prefer security over risk. -And fourth assumption, that EVE is a PVE game or even that PVE in EVE is any fun. Arena combat is probably one of the worst ideas anyone has, or will ever mention. Right up there with warp to zero, lvl 4 agents in empire, and capital ship insurance.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.13 14:42:00 - [60] YOu can't base decisions on this observation alone. I have 5 characters in 0.0 atm, 2 in lowsec, and 11 in highsec. But only 2 of the trained ones are in Empire, the other 4 are in 0.0. Highsec mostly has my trading alts, some semi-discarded scouts, while lowsec means cyno-alts. ------------------------------------------------

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