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I keep reading and hearing how amarr suck

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Maleficius Trucido	Posted - 2007.11.14 10:52:00 - [1] I started a little over a month ago, and Im wondering if thats true? my ship uses cap when shooting lasers and sometimes thats a problem... I have never been any other race, and I am clueless as to what its like in other ships. What are our problems and is this cap problem huge? Should I restart a race? I enjoy pve never done pvp.. but hope to do some at some point and dont want to be in a ship that is already at a loss before I start combat..
Tamia Clant New Dawn Corp New Eden Research	Posted - 2007.11.14 10:58:00 - [2] Well, let me put it this way. Amarr are the worst race to be picking at the moment, both for PVE and PVP. On the other hand, you could go for a FOTM setup and then whine about it when it gets nerfed. Your choice. Looking for queue-free research slots? Click here!
Cailais Amarr W A R	Posted - 2007.11.14 10:58:00 - [3] You'll be fine. Amarr aren't the 'best' race and some will argue that they're weaker in pvp but their limitations won't stop you playing. Most 'ship capability' threads are looking at the fine fine detail (a bit more dps there, a bit more tank there). If need be you can always cross train to another races ship, takes some time but doable. C. Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Dehumanisation - griefers are cool and if you are not a griefer, you do not belong here.
BrainFugger	Posted - 2007.11.14 10:58:00 - [4] gallente need cap to ;)
Cygnus Zhada Amarr The Wild Hunt	Posted - 2007.11.14 10:59:00 - [5] Edited by: Cygnus Zhada on 14/11/2007 11:00:19 I chose amarr for the cool lasers, I read on how they had their problems but I went ahead with it anyway, hoping for thigns to change a bit once I get my skills up. But... here's the deal; - forget about PVE, they're easily the worst for it (can't change damagetype and/or have crappy dronebays) - T1 ships suck donkeya$$, apart from 2 or 3 - solo/small gang stuff doesn't really work, you lack the midslots - if you don't have 70 bazillion SP, don't have a massively expensive setup... forget about it. - the intended tactics for Amarr (midrange) doesn't work, you can't keep em at that range so they either bugger off or get into your face at which point they get into their optimals and start hurting. I regret my choice, I started another account and am training up minmatar. Welcome to EVE Online: Press 1 for Caldari, PVE Online Press 2 for Minmatar, PVP Online Press 3 for Gallente, PWN Online Press 4 for Amarr, Lulz Online
Tar om Minmatar Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.14 10:59:00 - [6] They don't suck, its just that the game trend at the moment is towards very high speeds and high dps. Amar are the tanking race and don't feel much love. The truth is that in small gangs (where the fun is) amar can be extremely important as they either soak up your enemies DPS or get ignored (by smarter enemies) and get a free ride to rip a hole in whoever they want. -- DEVS forget EVERYTHING because LAG is the only issue with which you need concern yourselves. www.octavianvanguard.net
Tar om Minmatar Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.14 11:01:00 - [7] Heh, replying to the post above mine - if you fly a decent apoc you can do a lot of PvE. It just depends on where you are flying. Ravens are the PvE ship, everyone knows that but it doesn't mean Amar suck. -- DEVS forget EVERYTHING because LAG is the only issue with which you need concern yourselves. www.octavianvanguard.net
Cygnus Zhada Amarr The Wild Hunt	Posted - 2007.11.14 11:02:00 - [8] Edited by: Cygnus Zhada on 14/11/2007 11:04:02 Originally by: Tar om They don't suck, its just that the game trend at the moment is towards very high speeds and high dps. Amar are the tanking race and don't feel much love. The truth is that in small gangs (where the fun is) amar can be extremely important as they either soak up your enemies DPS or get ignored (by smarter enemies) and get a free ride to rip a hole in whoever they want. Geddon is primaried after anything E-war/recon, It does good damage and melts like butter. Apoc is left standing last, because well... it couldn't kill a fly. The apoc can do ok since it can run it's tank forever, but it gets 75m3 dronebay and it still can't alter it's damagetype. Caldari have it easy, Minnie can change it's damagetype (both on guns as missiles), Gallente have drones. Welcome to EVE Online: Press 1 for Caldari, PVE Online Press 2 for Minmatar, PVP Online Press 3 for Gallente, PWN Online Press 4 for Amarr, Lulz Online
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr Do Or Die And Live Or Try	Posted - 2007.11.14 11:06:00 - [9] In PvE amarr aren't bad. For belt ratting they are actually quite good, since you can keep going without running out of ammo.
Maleficius Trucido	Posted - 2007.11.14 11:08:00 - [10] Im thinking of waiting till after trinity comes out to restart a char. I want to wait a week and see what gets nerfed. Ill probobly just do mission runs and pray for tons of pirate blockades so I can get some nice cash and throw it on whatever new race/char I choose.
Liam Liam	Posted - 2007.11.14 11:11:00 - [11] Ye it's true crosstrain now before you put too many points into them. Cap issues and fitting issues affect them worse than all the other races. A lot of stuff requires mid slots they have the least mid slots of any race. They're poor for missions ...really struggle with em resistant rats They're poor against certain ship types in pvp ... vagabond for example has 92.5% em resist before it puts on a tank so lasers pretty bad against it in fact poor against most armor tanks. They are useful in certain situations for example harbinger good for ratting in certain regions where rats have poor em rsistances. They could almost be good against mainly shield tankers except a lot of their ships can't fire a gun and run a repper at the same time. They could almost be good when using cap boosters except they also have the lowerst cargo hold of any race. All in all yuor better just training another race they've been poor for a long time (years) and the devs have promised to fix them for a long time but just nerf them further.
Cygnus Zhada Amarr The Wild Hunt	Posted - 2007.11.14 11:16:00 - [12] Originally by: Maleficius Trucido Im thinking of waiting till after trinity comes out to restart a char. I want to wait a week and see what gets nerfed. Ill probobly just do mission runs and pray for tons of pirate blockades so I can get some nice cash and throw it on whatever new race/char I choose. Imo, best combi for me would be Caldari/Minmatar. Most minnie PVP ships rely on their shields and they use missiles. Caldari is just FFing uber for anything PVE, minnie is uber for PVP. Welcome to EVE Online: Press 1 for Caldari, PVE Online Press 2 for Minmatar, PVP Online Press 3 for Gallente, PWN Online Press 4 for Amarr, Lulz Online
Dristra Amarr Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.14 11:16:00 - [13] Actually, stick with amarr, as the current trend is to nerf just about anything not amarr, this is the amarr "oomph" It's great being Amarr isn't it.
Maleficius Trucido	Posted - 2007.11.14 11:26:00 - [14] so go minmatar and crosstrain caldari? sounds like a plan. Are caldari shield tanks?
Moghydin Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation	Posted - 2007.11.14 11:32:00 - [15] Amarr are not the best race by far. Both in PvE and PvP. In PvE Apoc is capable of doing quite a damage, but you have to be really specialized. I've completed Guristas Extra. lvl 4 in approx an hour and a half, may be a bit more in Apoc. If you tank it well and use the right drones, you can soak lots of DPS and kill NPCs rather fast. Of course not every mission can be done in Apoc. I had to bail out of "Enemies Abound 5/5" which was crazy as I couldn't tank them at all. In PvP Amarr are not that bad either, but they don't excel in anything in particular and don't have the ship that is the best in its class, so, if you're against that special ship, you have no chance. Amarr certainly need some attention from CCP, but they are not useless, it just takes a lot of skill points to squeeze anything decent from them. Press alt+F4 to reduce lag
Altaree Red Frog Investments Blue Sky Consortium	Posted - 2007.11.14 11:37:00 - [16] Why would ANYONE start a new character? Just train the skills you need. There is no penalty for training another race's ships! I fly both the Raven and Dominix right now. Plus, after you get through one set of t2 ship skills, all you need is one or two more racial skills to get access to more ships.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.14 11:52:00 - [17] Originally by: Maleficius Trucido Im thinking of waiting till after trinity comes out to restart a char. I want to wait a week and see what gets nerfed. Ill probobly just do mission runs and pray for tons of pirate blockades so I can get some nice cash and throw it on whatever new race/char I choose. Remember that nothing stop you from training other races ships. If you train gunnery skills most of them will transfer to other races. I am gallente and I have trained minmatas ships and weapons too (I did wanted some gun capable of doing explosive damage). From my point of view the Amarr tank is beautiful but the damage dealing issue limit them. As thing are evolving the Gallente advantage in drone use will be reduced with the drone ships losing something or at best not gaining anything while some of the other ships will gain larger drone space. So I suggest you to to cross train instead of restarting your character from scratch.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Please Enter Password	Posted - 2007.11.14 12:02:00 - [18] Amarr isn't "broken" as such, nor is it the "worst" race to pick(as race has nothing to do with it but..anyhoo), but it is, probably, the hardest. Amarr were kings. Now we're the new minmatar, the underdogs, the "look at those guys!" /point/laugh My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Tar om Minmatar Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.14 12:02:00 - [19] Originally by: Cygnus Zhada Edited by: Cygnus Zhada on 14/11/2007 11:04:02 Originally by: Tar om They don't suck, its just that the game trend at the moment is towards very high speeds and high dps. Amar are the tanking race and don't feel much love. The truth is that in small gangs (where the fun is) amar can be extremely important as they either soak up your enemies DPS or get ignored (by smarter enemies) and get a free ride to rip a hole in whoever they want. Geddon is primaried after anything E-war/recon, It does good damage and melts like butter. Apoc is left standing last, because well... it couldn't kill a fly. The apoc can do ok since it can run it's tank forever, but it gets 75m3 dronebay and it still can't alter it's damagetype. Caldari have it easy, Minnie can change it's damagetype (both on guns as missiles), Gallente have drones. You fly BS in small gangs? OK... I'd suggest going with amar HAC/Command. They're evil. -- DEVS forget EVERYTHING because LAG is the only issue with which you need concern yourselves. www.octavianvanguard.net
Vladimir Ilych Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.11.14 12:39:00 - [20] As others have said. Don't bother re-rolling. Just train from where you are. You will only throw away the SPs you have already otherwise. Once you have your cap support / armour skills you are halfway to galentte ships in any case.
Ikserak tai Caldari Ghengis Tia Corp	Posted - 2007.11.14 14:41:00 - [21] Sometimes I'd rather be in a 4x4 going slow on a bumpy road having crazy fun as opposed to sitting on my living room couch of a sedan on an interstate. I figure being Amarr is the 4x4, being Caldari or Gallente is the sedan. This all might get fixed someday, but being the underdog is okay, someone's got to do it. (Bumper Sticker: My other character is Amarr-got cap?) YOU'VE NEVER ROCKED 'TIL YOU'VE UNDOCKED.
seleka	Posted - 2007.11.14 15:19:00 - [22] There are some decent t2 boats (sacrilege, curse, absolution, guardian , damnation). All of the t1 cruisers suck though. Arbitrator is okish but unfortunately ist tier1 and has nothing to do with lasers or amarrian ship design. Harbi is ok. But truth is you won't really have something thats worth aiming for which isn't either t2 or a battleship/capital. Solo pvp is mostly out of the window for you. And to actually fly all decent ships you really need minmatar-like skill portfolio (drones for recons and geddon, missiles for khanid line, laser/gunnery for the crap-line, armor tank skills - basically shield skills are all you don't necessarily need). Oh yeah and for some ships you'll also need t2 autocannons. Well why bother? If you have a look at the latest dev q&a thread you'll notice nothing has gone forward the last 8 months. They have explicitly stated they didn't have time (lol) to look at the ships in the past 8 months although a mysterious amarr-superdev had been designated at that point. No one has ever seen him or heard anything about him since that day... So if you get into internal amarr affairs to deeply you might just "disintegrate" and never be seen again. Of course they have time to severely screw the other 3 races with nerfs and fix the really important issues like the deimos or torps. Also notice how threads now get locked with a pointer to the ultimate amarr whine erm problem thread. I.e. a receptacle for disgruntled customers so the devs can maneuver around those issues more conveniently. No, really the state of the empire is great. Just go amarr and get in for the ride. Ohh, wait...
Cygnus Zhada Amarr The Wild Hunt	Posted - 2007.11.14 15:24:00 - [23] Originally by: seleka although a mysterious amarr-superdev had been designated at that point. No one has ever seen him or heard anything about him since that day... He's called CCP Procrastination Welcome to EVE Online: Press 1 for Caldari, PVE Online Press 2 for Minmatar, PVP Online Press 3 for Gallente, PWN Online Press 4 for Amarr, Lulz Online
Vanessa Vale	Posted - 2007.11.14 15:45:00 - [24] Originally by: Cygnus Zhada Edited by: Cygnus Zhada on 14/11/2007 11:00:19 I chose amarr for the cool lasers, I read on how they had their problems but I went ahead with it anyway, hoping for thigns to change a bit once I get my skills up. But... here's the deal; - forget about PVE, they're easily the worst for it (can't change damagetype and/or have crappy dronebays) - T1 ships suck donkeya$$, apart from 2 or 3 - solo/small gang stuff doesn't really work, you lack the midslots - if you don't have 70 bazillion SP, don't have a massively expensive setup... forget about it. - the intended tactics for Amarr (midrange) doesn't work, you can't keep em at that range so they either bugger off or get into your face at which point they get into their optimals and start hurting. I regret my choice, I started another account and am training up minmatar. Lol. - With minmatar t1 ships suck donkeyballs until you at last get t2 guns, and some are just unusable (stabber). - Solo/small gang, you are still going to be solobbqpwned by gallente or they'll just go through the gate. - You do need another bazillion skillpoints on minnies. Split weapon systems, mixed armor/shield tanking, need speed+missiles+guns+tank+drones. - The intended tactics for minmatar (speed) don't "work". While you can keep them at range they'll simply go back to the gate and jump through, as getting in web range is usually very very unhealthy for minmatar even for non speed tanking stuff because you lose the capability of imposing range and fall into ranges where others have superior tank and dps and therefore you die. Amarr is 16% of the population, but minnie is 20%. That 4% is only due to minnies being cooler ;) As a suggestion I strongly recommend to train for a curse and see how many people start running away from you.
Rialtor Amarr Yarrrateers	Posted - 2007.11.14 15:52:00 - [25] Originally by: Tamia Clant Well, let me put it this way. Amarr are the worst race to be picking at the moment, both for PVE and PVP. On the other hand, you could go for a FOTM setup and then whine about it when it gets nerfed. Your choice. That's not true, Amarr and Caldari share the spot as worst in pvp. both the races aren't too far off minmatar, the gap between gallente is a bit bigger, which is where the major imbalance lies. As for PVE that's just wrong. In many instances Amarr are the best PVE Race. You just have to turn down missions not suited to you, pretty much only Gurista missions. For Blood and Sansha missions the Abaddon is the best mission runner in the game, imo. However overall the Raven is better, but on those 2 groups Amarr can run it faster. If you run missions for Amarr agents you generally get Blood or Sansha missions the vast majority of the time -- occasionally you turn down the Gurista missions. ---- sig ---- Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world... Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.11.14 16:20:00 - [26] I don't fly any amarr stuff for various reasons, but I've heard from several mission runners that they use an apoc/abaddon in serpentis/Sansha level 4s over even the Raven. Those same mission runners also sometimes use a tempest/typhoon for angel missions. Only caldari ships with configurable damage types are the PvE jack of all trades. And for 0.0 ratting you typically rat in one area against one rat type so you can easily pick the best race for that area. And for Sansha & serpentis that's Amarr. -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes
Jezabel2	Posted - 2007.11.14 16:40:00 - [27] my abaddon just melts sansha, blood raider, angel missions. :) 8.6 dmg mod 4.55 Rof .068 tracking only 14 cap per shot :) of course if it has high em resists I struggle a little with it, but sticking to amarr territory I have no problem.
Ruciza	Posted - 2007.11.14 16:42:00 - [28] The whining is not consistent. In one thread Amarr EW is described as "weaksauce" because it doesn't affect missiles, in the next thread somebody whines that missiles are underpowered and Caldari never used in PvP. Where Amarr EW ships are considered good, they "aren't really Amarr", and where they are considered underpowered, they are used to illustrate Amarr weakness. Selective perception is the order of the day. Thousands of opinions. First hand accounts in both directions. Where people report their successes with Amarr ships, the opposition must have been noobish, or handicapped in one way or another. Accounts in the opposite direction are gospel. For the benefit of the OP, this is not the place to find out what to fly. The real place is on the servers (use Sisi as a better EFT). Go out and find out for yourself, nobody can tell you what you have fun doing.
Andreya Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.11.14 17:57:00 - [29] Originally by: Liam Liam Ye it's true crosstrain now before you put too many points into them. Cap issues and fitting issues affect them worse than all the other races. A lot of stuff requires mid slots they have the least mid slots of any race. They're poor for missions ...really struggle with em resistant rats They're poor against certain ship types in pvp ... vagabond for example has 92.5% em resist before it puts on a tank so lasers pretty bad against it in fact poor against most armor tanks. They are useful in certain situations for example harbinger good for ratting in certain regions where rats have poor em rsistances. They could almost be good against mainly shield tankers except a lot of their ships can't fire a gun and run a repper at the same time. They could almost be good when using cap boosters except they also have the lowerst cargo hold of any race. All in all yuor better just training another race they've been poor for a long time (years) and the devs have promised to fix them for a long time but just nerf them further. dont bring a vagabond into this. they have 92% ARMOUR resist, whic vagas dont make use of. and may i add amarr t2 ships have stupid high explosive resist, which is the minmatar damage type. dont go round basing a race without looking fm the opposite side. that being said, Amarr are great, but focus more on their missile boats or sniping BS... both take a lot of training, but are worth it in the end, and look cool _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything.
Gner Dechast Gallente Flashman Services	Posted - 2007.11.14 18:11:00 - [30] Originally by: Cygnus Zhada Originally by: seleka although a mysterious amarr-superdev had been designated at that point. No one has ever seen him or heard anything about him since that day... He's called CCP Procrastination I lol'ed. Out of symphaty to all Amarr in Eve, I leave one turret un-activated when engaging them in PvP

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