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JackStraw56
The Caymans Knights of Tomorrow
43
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Posted - 2012.02.01 02:06:00 -
[31] - Quote
I've been using a MWD on my Mach ever since they first allowed them and I love it. I didn't need the afterburner to help the tank and with an x-type MWD it's not causing me cap problems.
I don't think this makes long range fits obsolete though, a tach nightmare is still a good mission ship. |
stoicfaux
702
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Posted - 2012.02.01 02:33:00 -
[32] - Quote
Spineker wrote:Neither of which are any big deal it is second nature to me, gun ships are not better than Missiles in PVE missions period. They are more work and you miss a good deal you never miss with missiles. It is all over in the wash guns are fun but missiles are better.
Having flown both gun and missile boats in missions, I disagree. Except for the guns requiring more a bit work. That part is true. Well, except when juggling 3-5 TPs on the Golem.
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
58
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Posted - 2012.02.01 04:03:00 -
[33] - Quote
guns are good unless you are either a simpleton who can't handle much more than pressing one button every now and then, or are only willing to use one mission ship. |
Tore Smith
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
9
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Posted - 2012.02.01 10:53:00 -
[34] - Quote
Spineker wrote:Neither of which are any big deal it is second nature to me, gun ships are not better than Missiles in PVE missions period. They are more work and you miss a good deal you never miss with missiles. It is all over in the wash guns are fun but missiles are better.
If you can't keep up with volley or the number needed to kill the rats you are fighting then I suggest you start getting more experience.
Not true, period. Guns are superior. See how much sense that kind of GÇ£argumentGÇ¥ makes?
OT: IGÇÖve found guns to actually be superior. And that is why: 1.With the exception of the Golem no mission missile ship has the same (high) damage potential as turret ships. The Golem though suffers from range issues and general TP hassle. 2.Tengu: In addition to above mentioned limitation, the Tengu suffers damage loss due to defender missiles and overkill damage. And those 2 donGÇÖt like each other, because if you ungroup the launchers for less overkill damage, the amount of defenders fired rises. 3.DonGÇÖt you hate counting missiles to have maximum efficiency? That has nothing to do with getting more experience, instead it directly invalidates your statement that guns are more work. 4.You never miss, thatGÇÖs true, but you donGÇÖt do full damage either if your target is small and/or fast. In missions transversal management with turrets is easy so missing is not the problem you say it is. |
Firebolt145
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
33
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Posted - 2012.02.01 11:30:00 -
[35] - Quote
Transversal is ridiculously easy to manage. You don't even have to think about it. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
2735
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Posted - 2012.02.01 12:34:00 -
[36] - Quote
L'Petit Object wrote:Since MWD's are allowed in missions. I'm beginning to experiment with MWD short range setups. My torp raven can do 1km/s. So why gimp my DPS? I stay more active and have more fun, and I finish faster. Anyone else having this experience?
My HML Furies do >8Km/s Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
22
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Posted - 2012.02.01 16:26:00 -
[37] - Quote
Spineker wrote:If you don't undestand missiles let me explain.
The first volley takes 8 seconds to hit yet the next volley will take whatever your rate of fire takes.
First volley takes 8 seconds the next volley is 3 seconds behind or whatever your ROF is. Yes there is a delay but very little and more damage compared to guns.
Let me explain something to you, you seem to ignore here. Once your volleys hitting every 3 seconds that ship you are shooting at is going to explode soon. And after it explodes, your volleys are not anymore hitting anything ... ;-)
Instant hits mean you have not to volley count to switch target in time. You do not care much if that stupid rat got lucky and shield rep 3 times instead of the usual 1 time, because you can instantly adjust targets and have not to guess how many volleys you will need now to pop it, you will never waste a volley, ever.
This is an advantage, even when you can compensate with good guessing and experience as missile user. |
Mavnas
The Scope Gallente Federation
16
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Posted - 2012.02.01 23:19:00 -
[38] - Quote
L'Petit Object wrote:Since MWD's are allowed in missions. I'm beginning to experiment with MWD short range setups. My torp raven can do 1km/s. So why gimp my DPS? I stay more active and have more fun, and I finish faster. Anyone else having this experience?
Because you can use that same 1 km/s to get to long-range then sacrifice the tank for DPS mods. |
Mavnas
The Scope Gallente Federation
16
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Posted - 2012.02.01 23:29:00 -
[39] - Quote
Spineker wrote: In PVE I will take missiles over guns any day. They talk about insta hitting but with missiles after the first hit they are insta hitting. Every 3.52 seconds.
To me I see the opposite. Missiles take a lot of extra work because you have to remember to turn them off 1-3 volleys early depending on your setup/distance to target. You also have to guess correctly that you're that many volleys away from killing your target. On my NH killing a BC at 50km, if I don't do this I shoot it 5 times instead of 3, meaning I'm really only applying 60% of my DPS.
I'm experimenting with a blaster proteus. So far, all I've determined is that my gunnery skills are still mediocre and that drones are easily killed. (Might drop some extra drones for 37.5% more tracking. At that point I'd have no trouble shooting frigs with my med blasters.) |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
41
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Posted - 2012.02.02 01:06:00 -
[40] - Quote
In incursions assaults and HQ's the sniper fits ARE A NECESSITY |
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Surge Roth
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
32
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Posted - 2012.02.02 04:18:00 -
[41] - Quote
L'Petit Object wrote:Since MWD's are allowed in missions. I'm beginning to experiment with MWD short range setups. My torp raven can do 1km/s. So why gimp my DPS? I stay more active and have more fun, and I finish faster. Anyone else having this experience?
i use MWD a lot with long range guns. I still get 20+ mil bounty ticks if the missions have enough stuff to shoot at. |
MadMuppet
Kerguelen Station
114
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Posted - 2012.02.02 04:23:00 -
[42] - Quote
I long range L3s with my 720mm Loki, but I short range L4s in the Mach. If I ever come up with a time efficient long range Mach fit I might change out.
I know I left a battleship in this station. Wait, you can put ships in Station Containers? ****! I just trashed them. |
Spineker
147
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Posted - 2012.02.02 05:00:00 -
[43] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Spineker wrote:Neither of which are any big deal it is second nature to me, gun ships are not better than Missiles in PVE missions period. They are more work and you miss a good deal you never miss with missiles. It is all over in the wash guns are fun but missiles are better.
Having flown both gun and missile boats in missions, I disagree. Except for the guns requiring more a bit work. That part is true. Well, except when juggling 3-5 TPs on the Golem.
LOL 3 to 5 is hard to manage! Especially with their slow count down. The only point I am making is that after the first volley it is all just like guns only they always hit for max damage. 8 seconds (8 seconds is saying they are like 100km off say Assault and you will not hit them with a gun but I can hit them with a missile) for first volley to hit and then everything after that hits with the same amount of time as guns it is a wash considering all the glancing and scratching shots for 400 to 600 on BS's. So yeah you lose a little amount of time. Now if you read the news while you are firing missiles yeah it is not very good for the pocket book, which I don't because if it is a bounty mission like say The Assault then I need to kill everything quick like to make cash.
But then I make my own T2 missiles which makes them far cheaper. I pay 400 a unit maybe sometimes more I guess I have never done the math with making my own. It is far cheaper and can be done in Highsec fairly reasonably. Takes about a week to set up your own production of T2 Fury missiles but after that it is all down hill just use a Noctis to salavage and loot a few drone missions and turn that into minerals and poof you have your own T2 production. Of coure I stil buy those gravity things and some other parts. However still far cheaper and with PI takes a couple of runs in a Crane or Badger. |
Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
23
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Posted - 2012.02.02 15:24:00 -
[44] - Quote
Spineker wrote:
But then I make my own T2 missiles which makes them far cheaper. I pay 400 a unit maybe sometimes more I guess I have never done the math with making my own. It is far cheaper and can be done in Highsec fairly reasonably. Takes about a week to set up your own production of T2 Fury missiles but after that it is all down hill just use a Noctis to salavage and loot a few drone missions and turn that into minerals and poof you have your own T2 production. Of coure I stil buy those gravity things and some other parts. However still far cheaper and with PI takes a couple of runs in a Crane or Badger.
How this is cheaper than selling those missiles you make for profit? Oh, wait, I remember, minerals are for free, and so is using a noctis to salvage instead of doing missions ... ;-)
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Mavnas
The Scope Gallente Federation
16
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Posted - 2012.02.02 18:27:00 -
[45] - Quote
Spineker wrote:stoicfaux wrote:Spineker wrote:Neither of which are any big deal it is second nature to me, gun ships are not better than Missiles in PVE missions period. They are more work and you miss a good deal you never miss with missiles. It is all over in the wash guns are fun but missiles are better.
Having flown both gun and missile boats in missions, I disagree. Except for the guns requiring more a bit work. That part is true. Well, except when juggling 3-5 TPs on the Golem. LOL 3 to 5 is hard to manage! Especially with their slow count down. The only point I am making is that after the first volley it is all just like guns only they always hit for max damage. 8 seconds (8 seconds is saying they are like 100km off say Assault and you will not hit them with a gun but I can hit them with a missile) for first volley to hit and then everything after that hits with the same amount of time as guns it is a wash considering all the glancing and scratching shots for 400 to 600 on BS's. So yeah you lose a little amount of time. Now if you read the news while you are firing missiles yeah it is not very good for the pocket book, which I don't because if it is a bounty mission like say The Assault then I need to kill everything quick like to make cash. But then I make my own T2 missiles which makes them far cheaper. I pay 400 a unit maybe sometimes more I guess I have never done the math with making my own. It is far cheaper and can be done in Highsec fairly reasonably. Takes about a week to set up your own production of T2 Fury missiles but after that it is all down hill just use a Noctis to salavage and loot a few drone missions and turn that into minerals and poof you have your own T2 production. Of coure I stil buy those gravity things and some other parts. However still far cheaper and with PI takes a couple of runs in a Crane or Badger.
The fewer volleys you take to kill something, and longer range you're firing from, the worse your DPS becomes. For example, for every 21-22km to target my NH puts another volley in the air before the previous one hits. At the extremes of 50km or so, I can shoot 3 times before the first connects. If I don't turn off the missiles manually and switch early, I've wasted up to 2 volleys. On a ship that takes 3 volleys to kill, I've now wasted 40% of my DPS by applying it to a target that was already dead but didn't know it. It's not about wasting ammo, it's about wasting the time it took to fire those extra volleys at a dead target. Long-range is often touted as a big advantage of missiles, but the further you are from your target the more you have to micro manage your firing. It's why I've begun experimenting with gunships and will eventually move to a Mach.
This is not a problem guns have. |
killroy Atram
EVE Protection Agency Intrepid Crossing
6
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Posted - 2012.03.21 05:24:00 -
[46] - Quote
how bout this all of you ITS YOUR OWN DAMN OPINION!!! |
Bricksauce
Red Dawn.
5
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Posted - 2012.03.22 11:22:00 -
[47] - Quote
I like using an MWD on my ships since if I use short to midrange ammo, it allows me to effectively dictate range, but only versus Serpentis and Angel rats. I prefer longer range ships (missiles or sentries) against Sansha and Guristas since they have decent EWAR (Sansha - TD) and can hit you no matter what (Guristas - Missiles) Red Dawn. is Now Recruiting! |
Zaltone
Lokresh Industries
2
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Posted - 2012.03.22 23:28:00 -
[48] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:I'm so disappointed that nobody has yet quoted:
"A microwarp drive?!? In a battleship?!? Are you insane?!?" - Solomon "Sol" Burke, Clear Skies 2
"You can't hotdog in a battleship! ... Oh what am I saying, you are going to do it anyway aren't ya?" - Solomon "Sol" Burke, Clear Skies 3 You are my hero |
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
85
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Posted - 2012.03.24 14:57:00 -
[49] - Quote
Whatever floats your boat I say ...
Personally a raven with torps and MWD would be a ***** to fit and fly ... but the OP was using it in a specific special situation where he has to do 0 tanking himself. Thus his question and comparison is garbage.
Torps are a pain even in a 3 Republic painters golem ... cant even think about how terrible they are in a normal raven.
Cruise CNR <3 |
Reaver Glitterstim
Resurrected Darkness
53
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Posted - 2012.03.24 23:11:00 -
[50] - Quote
Seems to me that the biggest thing preventing anyone from making long range fits work well is that you can't adjust your warp-in point. Seems to me there are short-range missions and medium-range missions, but aside from The Blockade, there's not really very many long-range missions available unless you wanna spend a few minutes MWDing away from the crowd before you aggro them. Otherwise you won't get much time to gun them down before they get too close to be hit. -á"The Mittani: Hated By Badposters i'm strangely comfortable with it" -Mittens |
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RougeOperator
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
167
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Posted - 2012.03.25 05:16:00 -
[51] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Seems to me that the biggest thing preventing anyone from making long range fits work well is that you can't adjust your warp-in point. Seems to me there are short-range missions and medium-range missions, but aside from The Blockade, there's not really very many long-range missions available unless you wanna spend a few minutes MWDing away from the crowd before you aggro them. Otherwise you won't get much time to gun them down before they get too close to be hit.
This is more true then I like to admit.
what is the point of Ravens and rohks and arty maels being able to shoot over 200km when most missions rats start no further away then 100km.
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