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Jakus Cemendur
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.11.16 12:26:00 -
[1]
Are MWDs essential for PvP on battleships? I'm curious because i've never really liked MWds due to how much they cripple cap use.
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Wild Rho
Amarr
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2007.11.16 12:30:00 -
[2]
Not really.
It's generally considered a must have for anything smaller these days as we're living in the nano gang era of pvp but generally only a few battleships such as the megathron will fly with a MWD frequently.
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Meiyang Lee
Gallente
Azteca Transportation Unlimited
Gunboat Diplomacy
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Posted - 2007.11.16 12:32:00 -
[3]
MWD on a BS essential? My guess is not really, unless you need to close the distance to your opponents as fast as possible.
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Ione Hunt
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.11.16 12:36:00 -
[4]
Blasterthron without MWD would be a deathrap...
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Cpt Cosmic
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Posted - 2007.11.16 12:38:00 -
[5]
its good to have it to get back to the gate or outside of bubble. image what would happen if your sniper fleet would be cought at a gate and the fleet commander saying you to get outside of bubble and warp? have fun moving out.
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Crellion
Art of War
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Posted - 2007.11.16 12:39:00 -
[6]
Depending on set ups it can be necessary but it can also be harmful. As a generalisation its just plain wrong.
Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim. |
Jakus Cemendur
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.11.16 12:46:00 -
[7]
Well this would be for a blaster hyperion, so do you think it would be necessary for that?
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Shiken Kan
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Posted - 2007.11.16 12:47:00 -
[8]
er blaster ships need to get close, so yes it would be pretty essential :p
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Crellion
Art of War
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Posted - 2007.11.16 13:02:00 -
[9]
 Originally by: Jakus Cemendur
Well this would be for a blaster hyperion, so do you think it would be necessary for that?
if you plan to use it in a small / medium gang with neutrons you can get away with AB often but dont quote me on this because its heresey and Lukek or Dalman or someone will come along and plonk me.
In fact I have tried abII on a Mega neutron set up on a clone with Low grade snakes (no it was not set up like that for the Mega lol) and I found it worked like a charm. Very situational though. If you ctd and the gang moves one the mwd is the difference between making it home or not very often.
Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim. |
Gamesguy
Amarr
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.11.16 13:06:00 -
[10]
Its pretty much essential period, without you die when you get caught by a bubble/had a gang warp in on you.
For example, you're on the gate and a gang too big for you to engage warps in on you. A few aggresses to force you to jump, once you do the rest jumps and kills you.
With a mwd you can mwd back to the gate and jump back through, you get a few seconds headstart and even in a trimarked/plated bs I've managed to get back through the gate despite webbing on inertia alone.
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Glassback
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.11.16 13:40:00 -
[11]
Yes.
G.
If Eve was just a game, it would have a pause button.
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Zhaine
B e l l u m
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Posted - 2007.11.16 13:43:00 -
[12]
I would say almost always yes, except in certain bizarre set ups or gangs. It will save your ass or help you kill stuff way to often to leave off.
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Cygnus Zhada
Amarr
The Wild Hunt
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Posted - 2007.11.16 14:12:00 -
[13]
You NEED to be able to burn through/out of bubbles so I'd say yes.
Welcome to EVE Online:
Press 1 for Caldari, PVE Online
Press 2 for Minmatar, PVP Online
Press 3 for Gallente, PWN Online
Press 4 for Amarr, Lulz Online |
bloomich
Trotter's Independent Traders Co
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Posted - 2007.11.16 14:13:00 -
[14]
Any non-capital sized PvP ship now really needs a MWD. Even if its a Amarr ship. Especially if its a Amarr Ship!
No MWD means you will be at the mercy of whoever you fight, as they can easaly move outside your scram range and warp away if they have a MWD and you dont. This means your opponants will always have a trump card against you.
What about giant 0.0 blobfests? You need a MWD even more. Without a MWD, you will die in the first bubble you come up against. On top of that, you will never be manouverable and hence become almost useless in tactical scenarios.
With a MWD, you can, even if you are jumping into a bubble, MWD out, warp away and warp back to sniper range. Or perhaps you quickly need to close 10-20km to get into optimal. Or perhaps to move 10-20km Outside of your enemies optimal! Anyhow the point is, always fit a mwd on a non-capital sized pvp ship.
--SIG--
I am aware that my name means reproductive organ in another language, I bought this char for isk with that name without relising that. |
Miss KillSome
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.11.16 14:19:00 -
[15]
bah, i gave up on MWD.
If everybody fits them on everything, that means that they are faster then my plate hyp. Even if i web them (if they are smart, they have a web too and they are faster) they'll just go outside of my web range..Its good to have it coz of bubbles, but every PvP ship nowadays fits a webber and a mwd. Hyp beeing slow, it only helps u to keep them at your range a little longer..
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Damneia Achernius
Northen Breeze
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Posted - 2007.11.16 15:18:00 -
[16]
iv been useing a zealot and geddon ok whitout any speed mod and soon ill be useing a absolution when i bother to do the damn leadership skills (3 base charisma ftl on a achura :P)
it ofc depends where you fight. in high/low sec its possible to do whitout mwd/ab but 0.0 i havent undocked whitout one yet :P
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Corwain
Gallente
Down In Flames
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Posted - 2007.11.16 15:36:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Miss KillSome
bah, i gave up on MWD.
If everybody fits them on everything, that means that they are faster then my plate hyp. Even if i web them (if they are smart, they have a web too and they are faster) they'll just go outside of my web range.
Hype has 5 mids, allowing you to fit dual webs...a dual webbed MWD ship ain't going far 99% of the time.
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Cygnus Zhada
Amarr
The Wild Hunt
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Posted - 2007.11.16 15:41:00 -
[18]
MWD is a defensive option most of the time, not an offensive one. Especially on bigger ships you simply need it.
Welcome to EVE Online:
Press 1 for Caldari, PVE Online
Press 2 for Minmatar, PVP Online
Press 3 for Gallente, PWN Online
Press 4 for Amarr, Lulz Online |
mallina
Caldari
Core Contingency
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Posted - 2007.11.16 15:41:00 -
[19]
For Amarr and Caldari ships, no - they're not essential.
100MN MWDs use far too much cap to be sustained, so unlike HACs they can't really be perma-ran (in order to maintain range) but rather are used to get within range, escape a bubble or, most importantly, burn back to a stargate.
In some alliances (BoB in particular) MWDs are a requirement on fleet-fit BS for many of the above reasons and, in general, to increase mobility.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Uninvited Guests
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Posted - 2007.11.16 15:50:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 16/11/2007 15:50:37
Originally by: Cygnus Zhada
MWD is a defensive option most of the time, not an offensive one. Especially on bigger ships you simply need it.
-For gallente its always an offensive option to have a MWD.
-For minmatar its both an offensive (to somewhat get in dmg range) and defensive (speed tank) mod.
-For amarr its a mod that breaks your cap, doesnt help you get into range because you dont need to get closer but it also fails at keeping your range from other ships because youre slow as a turtle anyway (especially some ships that HAVE to have a passive plate tank)
Welcome to eve , errr i mean mwd-online 
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Uninvited Guests
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Posted - 2007.11.16 15:53:00 -
[21]
Originally by: mallina
For Amarr and Caldari ships, no - they're not essential.
It is, you prolly mean Amarr and Caldari ships arent always viable to fit an mwd because it jacks up their cap etc.
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mallina
Caldari
Core Contingency
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Posted - 2007.11.16 16:07:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: mallina
For Amarr and Caldari ships, no - they're not essential.
It is, you prolly mean Amarr and Caldari ships arent always viable to fit an mwd because it jacks up their cap etc.
I mean they don't need an MWD to be able to get within weapons range. It dosen't change the fact that not fitting an MWD to a Battleship in 0.0 is a bad idea, but it's not absolutely essential (as it would be on a Blasterthron).
The fact that MWDs mess their cap up/etc is a reasonable tradeoff considering they only really need it to escape.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Uninvited Guests
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Posted - 2007.11.16 17:07:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 16/11/2007 17:07:25
Originally by: mallina
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: mallina
For Amarr and Caldari ships, no - they're not essential.
It is, you prolly mean Amarr and Caldari ships arent always viable to fit an mwd because it jacks up their cap etc.
I mean they don't need an MWD to be able to get within weapons range. It dosen't change the fact that not fitting an MWD to a Battleship in 0.0 is a bad idea, but it's not absolutely essential (as it would be on a Blasterthron).
The fact that MWDs mess their cap up/etc is a reasonable tradeoff considering they only really need it to escape.
Uhm
Option 1: A ship that viably can fit MWD without trouble to use its dps. MWD also giving it speed and means to escape and running to gates and out of bubbles.
Option 2: A ship that doesnt need mwd to do damage (these ships mostly dont do the damage equal to ships in option 1) but cant viably fit mwd.
Ok so what is the down side of being in a ship that goes under option 1?
PvP works like this:
Chance of a gank ship NOT getting into range and dying because of it <<<< chance of a non mwd ship getting killed by close range gank ships before doing reasonable amount of damage
To put it short: Mid range is dead in eve. Close range gank ships own eve.
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Shadowsword
COLSUP
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.11.16 17:11:00 -
[24]
One of the main reasons why there's so many MWDing battleships is because they can easily get out of bubbles.
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What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs. |
darkmancer
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Posted - 2007.11.16 18:47:00 -
[25]
I'd say it depends on what type of gang/fleet your in. A MWD can often save your ass, or help you get though that annoying bubble you run into when your roaming.
But the penalties are huge.
If all the other bs have one make sure you do. If some of them don't it's upto you.
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There's a simple solution to every problem. It is always invariably wrong |
Stuart Price
Caldari
Havoc Inc
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Posted - 2007.11.16 18:50:00 -
[26]
I don't fit a MWD to my bs's, but only because they never venture into nullsec.
I fly an Abaddon and a Blaster-Rokh and both have the range to engage at scram distance. If I was flying a ship that had short range guns (blasters on a Rokh hardly qualifies as 'short range' especially when you can load Null and hit out to 32+km) then I would fit a MWD. Simple really.
I prefer tank and gank on the big ships. And neuts, heavy neuts are very useful for when vagabonds try their luck.
"I got soul but I'm not a soldier" |
Ruddger
Minmatar
Damned Legion
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Posted - 2007.11.16 19:40:00 -
[27]
If you fly in low or high sec and are not in a blaster boat, no its not absolutely necessary. If you are in 0.0 chances are you will be yelled and screamed at for not fitting one. Is it necessary? No. You are in a BS, which means you are in the top 3 to be called primary. If you have to burn out of a bubble, chances are even with a MWD the enemy will get a point on you before you make it out and kill you at their leisure. If you are in a fleet of BSs and may not be targeted and melted instantly then chances are that you can close the 12k to the edge of the bubble before going pop (unless you are unlucky enough to land smack in the middle). As someone said we live in the age of the nano, so conventional wisdom says you must have one, practical experience says otherwise. That said, it does help close distance, so if you only have a range of 20k on your guns expect to have trouble reaching your target who has fitted a MWD because its the thing to do.
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madaluap
Gallente
Mercenary Forces
Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.11.16 19:55:00 -
[28]
Edited by: madaluap on 16/11/2007 19:55:51
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 16/11/2007 17:07:25
Originally by: mallina
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: mallina
For Amarr and Caldari ships, no - they're not essential.
It is, you prolly mean Amarr and Caldari ships arent always viable to fit an mwd because it jacks up their cap etc.
I mean they don't need an MWD to be able to get within weapons range. It dosen't change the fact that not fitting an MWD to a Battleship in 0.0 is a bad idea, but it's not absolutely essential (as it would be on a Blasterthron).
The fact that MWDs mess their cap up/etc is a reasonable tradeoff considering they only really need it to escape.
Uhm
Option 1: A ship that viably can fit MWD without trouble to use its dps. MWD also giving it speed and means to escape and running to gates and out of bubbles.
Option 2: A ship that doesnt need mwd to do damage (these ships mostly dont do the damage equal to ships in option 1) but cant viably fit mwd.
Ok so what is the down side of being in a ship that goes under option 1?
PvP works like this:
Chance of a gank ship NOT getting into range and dying because of it <<<< chance of a non mwd ship getting killed by close range gank ships before doing reasonable amount of damage
To put it short: Mid range is dead in eve. Close range gank ships own eve.
I think the problem is passive tanking. In the old days engaging a armageddon would be quite a expirience. It would near insta lock me, zaaaaaaaaaaaaaaap away my shields, i had to press both of my reps active and after 2 cycles of the reps and mwd i was in range but also in hull with 0% resists. The armageddon would life with 80% armor left.
These days, it wont zap away my shields that fast, it will face some heavy plating and higher EM resists. And decent hull resists, allthough a armagedon has a dcu aswell.
Imo, both of these fights are too extreme, the answer is in the middle ground. Not ZAP ZAP lol 80% armor left and you lose, but also not the omg look @ my ammount of armor and increased EM resists.
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Breetime
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hangnoose
Caldari
The Illuminati.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.11.16 20:54:00 -
[29]
I never undock any ship without an mwd ( except caps ofc )
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slothe
Caldari
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.11.16 21:00:00 -
[30]
in pvp in 0.0 especially, mwd is essential on any size ship. i cant imagine any situation where a mwd is not essential tbh.
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