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Nybbas
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Posted - 2004.03.04 23:13:00 -
[31]
exactly, there is no way to honestly defend them, and their punishment was severe, and i doubt anyone will do something like that again, after seeing what the punishment is. these people were griefers, they were not profiting anything other than ruining some poor n00bs day. that is it, 1.0 are never EVER supposed to be able to be controlled like that, thats why its 1.0 it was a flaw in the game design and they saw the opportunity to exploit the flaw. zero tolerance, sorry, anyone has you say has done something like this before and didnt get banned got off easy. they did not. nothing has been done on a scale like this before.
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Zarthan
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Posted - 2004.03.04 23:16:00 -
[32]
 Quote:
Maybe they got banned because the GM's showed up, and asked them to stop, but they refused?
you are the winner!
_______________________________________________________
Get custom sigs and graphics done here
Unforgivn Website
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pooti
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Posted - 2004.03.04 23:17:00 -
[33]
ccp made the game, they can do whatever the hell they want
there's plenty of room for arguing interpretations as to what they mean with certain rules, but when they say "don't do what you're doing," well, don't ******* do it.
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Archain
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Posted - 2004.03.04 23:18:00 -
[34]
In my eyes their tactic was legit, my hat goes off to them for a job well done. An awesome use of teamwork was displayed there.
Space Invaders Movie Library - [SPVD]
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Skelator
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Posted - 2004.03.04 23:18:00 -
[35]
Quote:
"There is no abuse, exploit or plain cheating involved."
You are wrong. The GM's say it was wrong...that makes it wrong.
I swear some of you don't seem to know or understand, what or who the GM's are.
Common sence is the rarest commodity,
MrBinary
Referees have the FINAL word on any outcome .. In ANY Game
They have us Surrounded again.. the Poor Bastards |
Skelator
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Posted - 2004.03.04 23:20:00 -
[36]
Quote:
Try to look at it this way. 2 known pirate corps.
Zombie Inc want fun. They go grief some noobs.
m0o wants fun. They go fight it out with the CA.
Difference in style and CLASS, ey ?
Yes M00 has Class even though I dont like pirates 
They have us Surrounded again.. the Poor Bastards |
Eduard
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Posted - 2004.03.04 23:29:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Eduard on 04/03/2004 23:34:41
Quote:
The GM's say it's an exploit
Thus, it's an exploit 
Hmm. When I report same behave of PKers but only just in 0.4 I was told by GM it's legit tactics. So how CCP staff suppose have double approach to same problem? Isn't sentry tnaking same tactics as CONCORD tanking?
I think something is seriously broken in EVE's mechanic. Zombie was only so stupid do it in 1.0 if they would do same in 0.4 then they woldn't called exploiters. How long we will see this shortsighting?
Personally I think simple change in EVE dynamic in way of punish supporting ships too by firing on them would be enough. I'd play E&B and there when I was healer (not even involved in group) and use recharge on mates shields I got attacked by all MOBs around.
It would be esier do call it exploit or just fix game? I would prefer fixing game.
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Jimmeh
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Posted - 2004.03.04 23:34:00 -
[38]
If players want pvp, they know where to go and get it, the game has plenty of capacity for that. One of the great things about EVE is that there are so many ways to play the game. Not everyone wants pvp, some want to build stuff and create an empire, amass wealth etc, and they should be able to do that too.
Just because some people want to play the game differently to others doesn't justify the overt and calculated griefing perpetrated by Zomby. Carebears have their place in the game too. Zomby's action will have discouraged noobs, it made a mockery of the concept of 'safe' systems, and in ignoring a GM's request to stop they showed a total disrespect for the wider game.
You commit murder, you get a life sentence. Justice is seen to be done. Well handled, CCP.
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Hellena
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Posted - 2004.03.04 23:46:00 -
[39]
Quote:
In my eyes their tactic was legit, my hat goes off to them for a job well done. An awesome use of teamwork was displayed there.
agreed. it was pretty smart tactics to use sheild ships to keep the apoc going.
HOWEVER they must have known the scorps would not be attacked even though they were helping someone break the law. that part there is an exploit in my opinion. plus the GM asked them to stop(?) they should have then. but they did not so they got banned. simple.
and yes, even though GMs might not always be right, their word is Law, just like in real life. governments might not be right but cant do much about it.
Not Just Another Pretty Face
La Maison Hostess |
Mau dib
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Posted - 2004.03.04 23:47:00 -
[40]
Quote:
How is what Zombie did an exploit or a fault in game mechanics? Everything they did appeared legit and above board, assuming this is what happened -
Zombie sets up a shield tanked apoc at the gate with many smartbombs. apoc commences slaughtering neutrals and is attacked by concord. many other Zombie in scorps assume positions around the apoc and activate legit shield transfer units on the same, thus rendering it neigh on impossible for concord to destroy.
There is no abuse, exploit or plain cheating involved. If yulai was supposed to be 100% secure, why doesnt it have sentry guns that deal 20,000 dmg with a 1000km range at the gates, or something else coded that cant be fairly beaten? Bans, even warnings for this are unfair in the best light. If my version of events is correct, everything Zombie pulled is legitimate, and good luck to them for finding a way to kill off some whining mining empire space carebares 
I agree. If someone can prove that this was a DOCUMENTED exploit by CCP then they should be banned, but where was it posted that there was a rule you could NOT do this. CCP should not make up rules as AFTER people break them. That is just BS!
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.03.04 23:55:00 -
[41]
Cut the crap, Zombie knew they would be banned, they did this for fame.
There really should be a 2000 character cap on muad dibs...
Convert Stations
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.03.04 23:55:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Jash Illian on 04/03/2004 23:57:17
Quote:
ccp made the game, they can do whatever the hell they want
there's plenty of room for arguing interpretations as to what they mean with certain rules, but when they say "don't do what you're doing," well, don't ******* do it.
Well I agree with the sentiment, pooti. But it requires:
1) Saying it before the fact
2) Saying what not to do
3) Saying it some place where it can be verified.
This:
Quote:
As a lot of you are aware, a certain corp willingly exploited a fault in the game mechanics and managed to kill over a 100 people in the supposedly secure Yulai system last night. We have decreed that those who were the recipiants of this heinous crime will be fully reimbursed for their loss. If you are one of those who lost your belongings and still haven¦t petitioned us, please do so and we will see to it that your possessions are returned to you. The exploiters have received a ban for their efforts and anyone thinking of following their example should be aware that the same fate awaits them. - The GM Team
is:
1) Vague on what not to do
2) After the fact.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Vorax
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Posted - 2004.03.05 00:02:00 -
[43]
"I agree. If someone can prove that this was a DOCUMENTED exploit by CCP then they should be banned, but where was it posted that there was a rule you could NOT do this. CCP should not make up rules as AFTER people break them. That is just BS!"
You should read the manuals..you will find it.
"12.14 How do I know whatÆs legal or illegal in the game?
Using the game mechanics in any way to achieve an unintended game behavior is exploiting. "
1.0 sec zones are supposed to be 100% safe from PvP, thus anything that can be done to make it unsafe, is an exploit.
Read the manuals people!
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Interferon
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Posted - 2004.03.05 00:07:00 -
[44]
Exploit or Not, Right or Wrong, as soon as the GM's asked them to stop and they did not, then Zombie sealed their own fate when they continued to fire and thereby BROKE THE TERMS OF THE END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT.....'nuff said?
"What we are dealing with heah, is a complete and total lack of respect for the LAWAH!"...Sheriff Beufford T. Justice
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McWatt
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Posted - 2004.03.05 00:10:00 -
[45]
Quote:
1.0 sec zones are supposed to be 100% safe from PvP, thus anything that can be done to make it unsafe, is an exploit.
Read the manuals people!
says who? what manual? *******s!
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J3tt
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Posted - 2004.03.05 00:14:00 -
[46]
zombie>ccp
w00t
-----------------------------------------
Can your pod outrun a cruise missle? |
Vorax
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Posted - 2004.03.05 00:15:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Vorax on 05/03/2004 00:18:34
"says who? what manual? *******s!"
I think it was implied by the 1.0 meaning the zone is completely secured by Concord. You have to use a bit of common sense with their statement, not alot, but your brain has to be turned on. Is it wrong to beat someone to death with a club? You could say, it is ok if you don't get caught, but you would be worng and when caught, you would go to jail. If you can't see the point, try getting some intelligence implants.
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Monty Burns
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Posted - 2004.03.05 00:18:00 -
[48]
Quote:
The GM's say it's an exploit
Thus, it's an exploit
B*1L S!"t
The GMS/game designers were warned about this tactic MANY MANY times in advance, they took no action. These guys use mechanisms that were IN USE and readily available. Welcome to the world of money .... :-(
You guys paint EVE as a dark world .... learn and adapt like we have to with your NPC rats.
Police get swamped in riots, guess what .... they come out a day/2 stronger ... it don't happen often that it continues over an extended period. You guys got caught off-guard, deal with it like we do as players.
This is a GREAT thing ... learn from it!
Be lucky!
Darwin 4tw
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.03.05 00:33:00 -
[49]
Vorax: if you can't tell the difference between this:
Quote:
Edited by: Vorax on 05/03/2004 00:18:34
"says who? what manual? *******s!"
I think it was implied by the 1.0 meaning the zone is completely secured by Concord. You have to use a bit of common sense with their statement, not alot, but your brain has to be turned on. Is it wrong to beat someone to death with a club? You could say, it is ok if you don't get caught, but you would be worng and when caught, you would go to jail. If you can't see the point, try getting some intelligence implants.
And this:
Quote:
You should read the manuals..you will find it.
1.0 sec zones are supposed to be 100% safe from PvP, thus anything that can be done to make it unsafe, is an exploit.
Read the manuals people!
then you've got problems.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Kalissa
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Posted - 2004.03.05 00:33:00 -
[50]
If there's one good thing that can come from what the Zombie guys did is that maybe this exploit will now be a higher priority for CCP to fix.
Also well done to CCP for banning these griefers. 1.0 space is there for a reason, and thats to give noobs and people who don't get their fun out of Eve through combat a safe place to enjoy themselves. The Zombie guys knew what they were doing was wrong and not in the spirit of the game. They got exactly what they deserved. Personally I not only would I have banned them, I'd have taken a couple of million skill points off their characters for this. |
Fuujin
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Posted - 2004.03.05 01:01:00 -
[51]
Quote:
zombie>ccp
w00t
Last i checked zombie were the ones that got banned and not CCP =\
_______________
The sword has to be more than a simple weapon; it has to be an answer to life's questions
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Slithereen
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Posted - 2004.03.05 01:20:00 -
[52]
The profoundity is not really about killing in 1.0 space, since the GMs can personally enforce any law, but with corp wars in empire space, even in the same 1.0 Yulai system or in empire capitals.
Think of it this way.
Person A has a corp war, flying any battleship, let's say, an Apoc. Person A goes on to engage Person B, whom Person A has a corp war with.
Person C is Person A's good friend or ally. But Person C is not part of the Person A's corp, and is not involved in the corp war with Person B. Person C comes with an Armaggedon with few guns, relays on the back end, with shield adn energy transfer modules.
As Person A and B starts their fight, Person C flies to within transfer distance of Person A, and starts pumping Person B's shields and energy up. Person B cannot attack Person C,without the Concord coming down on him. In the end, Person A wins.
Person C may even be an alt of Person A. :P
There is just so many ways to exploit these modules and the system. CCP really needs to remedy this serious loophole.
One suggested restriction is that transfers are only allowed within gangs, requiring that gangs must be formed. Anything within that gang, regardless of which corp they belong to, would be automatically be included as combantants and participants in the corp war, and should be considered legitimate targets.
And of course, the NPC AI should be written to target anyone making transfers to the "criminal", whether its sentry guns, Concord, or the Navies (the current loophole also makes it possible to farm Navy NPCs).
_______________________________________________
"Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies,
"Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy.
"Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
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Hafthor
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Posted - 2004.03.05 03:16:00 -
[53]
Zombie deserved to be banned. It is obvious since they.. got banned
I do however think they weren't banned for long.. just a week or so. Sad.. all this fuss over something that wasn't really that hard to do. It's not as if noone had thought of it. It's just that noone was dumb enough to do it in Yulai.
And for those that think Zombie didn't know this was an exploit, read this.
Quite funny... shortly after that post Triniton got his wish fulfilled. 
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Hafthor
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Posted - 2004.03.05 03:17:00 -
[54]
ohh and Quote:
There really should be a 2000 character cap on muad dibs...
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Imperishable
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Posted - 2004.03.05 03:30:00 -
[55]
If I was in charge of CCP. I'd simply get the GMs warn people on different chat channels about the gate camp and also try to organize a player driven event where players have an opportunity to help CONCORD without it being considered hostile action by it.
I hate all artifical solutions to game problems. Players can solve everything, they just need someone to organize and direct them.
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.03.05 03:33:00 -
[56]
Yes if they could've instantly made Zombie fair game everywhere that'd be super. But since no such tool is in place.
Convert Stations
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Imperishable
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Posted - 2004.03.05 03:40:00 -
[57]
I thought the whole reason for choosing to code game logic in python script was to make it easily customizable at run time, withing rebooting servers. They have the tools, they just took the easy way out. Many people complain here about about poor role playing and lack of content supported story. It's not just the players. CCP also don't like to role play much, else they would have turned this into a special event and made a story
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Vorax
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Posted - 2004.03.05 03:45:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Vorax on 05/03/2004 03:47:41
Edited by: Vorax on 05/03/2004 03:46:41
Ok, perhpas my explanation using some of CCP's info and an elobaration and some metaphors were a little to abstract of an explanation as to why this is an exploit. Heres one last attempt at simplification, read slow and look up the big words with an adult if necessary:
If it seems wrong it probably is. If you do it and get banned, don't whine about it or whine about others banned for doing it.
Any clearer? Picture forming yet? 1+1=2 and all that? Deep breaths...concentrate
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Cattraknoff
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Posted - 2004.03.05 04:06:00 -
[59]
Quote:
I thought the whole reason for choosing to code game logic in python script was to make it easily customizable at run time, withing rebooting servers. They have the tools, they just took the easy way out. Many people complain here about about poor role playing and lack of content supported story. It's not just the players. CCP also don't like to role play much, else they would have turned this into a special event and made a story
yes, they coulda said, members from zombie inc killed hundreds of new pilots etc...they were sentenced to 10 days or w/e in a maximum secuirty prison, and concord apologises for the lost ships and promises full reimbnursement, just a small rp story like that
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Doppleganger
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Posted - 2004.03.05 06:15:00 -
[60]
Quote:
or gone there themselves and taken Zombie out.
They did..... they took those Zombie members out (of the game for a bit).
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