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Soljah	Posted - 2004.03.04 19:16:00 - [1] Quote: "Regarding the mass killings in Yulai last night (3rd of March) As a lot of you are aware, a certain corp willingly exploited a fault in the game mechanics and managed to kill over a 100 people in the supposedly secure Yulai system last night. We have decreed that those who were the recipiants of this heinous crime will be fully reimbursed for their loss. If you are one of those who lost your belongings and still haven¦t petitioned us, please do so and we will see to it that your possessions are returned to you. The exploiters have received a ban for their efforts and anyone thinking of following their example should be aware that the same fate awaits them. - The GM Team " Not many online games wud do this, an trust me i play quite a few olot of em, and wud say welldone, shame about the bug exploit but hey, stuff happeneds. glad u banned them an gave the players their belongings back. =================================== Heaven An Hell Torpedoes 2004.08.01 05:25:56 Combat Your Heaven An Hell Torpedoes Perfectly strikes Sanshas Beast Lord Wrecking 1731.8 damage. The Hunt Can Soon Become The Hunted.
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2004.03.04 19:47:00 - [2] What happend? ------ ROBBLE ROBBLE
Chelsea rorec	Posted - 2004.03.04 19:51:00 - [3] Zombie inc got banned I'd take this on bored if i was you m0o lol In b4 the lock
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2004.03.04 20:25:00 - [4] Quote: Zombie inc got banned I'd take this on bored if i was you m0o lol In b4 the lock huh? ------ ROBBLE ROBBLE
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2004.03.04 20:28:00 - [5] It's the dyslexic pride parade, build a float and go along. fiir teh streapah! Convert Stations
Fuujin	Posted - 2004.03.04 20:59:00 - [6] Quote: How is what Zombie did an exploit or a fault in game mechanics? Everything they did appeared legit and above board, assuming this is what happened - Zombie sets up a shield tanked apoc at the gate with many smartbombs. apoc commences slaughtering neutrals and is attacked by concord. many other Zombie in scorps assume positions around the apoc and activate legit shield transfer units on the same, thus rendering it neigh on impossible for concord to destroy. There is no abuse, exploit or plain cheating involved. If yulai was supposed to be 100% secure, why doesnt it have sentry guns that deal 20,000 dmg with a 1000km range at the gates, or something else coded that cant be fairly beaten? Bans, even warnings for this are unfair in the best light. If my version of events is correct, everything Zombie pulled is legitimate, and good luck to them for finding a way to kill off some whining mining empire space carebares Even if you consider it one or not, they got banned for it.........so that kind of makes it an exploit _______________ The sword has to be more than a simple weapon; it has to be an answer to life's questions
Orestes	Posted - 2004.03.04 21:00:00 - [7] The GM's say it's an exploit Thus, it's an exploit Join the IC!
Sally	Posted - 2004.03.04 21:01:00 - [8] Oh, a GM fanboy. -- Stories: #1 --
Fuujin	Posted - 2004.03.04 21:02:00 - [9] Quote: Oh, a GM fanboy. oh a non-GM fanboy Diffrence of opinion, deal with it. _______________ The sword has to be more than a simple weapon; it has to be an answer to life's questions
Sally	Posted - 2004.03.04 21:03:00 - [10] Quote: The GM's say it's an exploit Thus, it's an exploit Yeah right. My definition: CCP considers something an exploit. Regardless of any common sense. Always been that way. -- Stories: #1 --
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2004.03.04 21:04:00 - [11] Sally would beat kids with a sledgehammer to steal their candy if there were no police, nevermind the sociopaths. Convert Stations
Fuujin	Posted - 2004.03.04 21:05:00 - [12] I'm sure she wakes up each morning and eats a bag on onions before touching the eve boards. _______________ The sword has to be more than a simple weapon; it has to be an answer to life's questions
Orestes	Posted - 2004.03.04 21:05:00 - [13] Hey, no dissing Sally, he's entitled to his opinions, like everyone else Join the IC!
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2004.03.04 21:06:00 - [14] GMs have been wrong before, take the incident with m0o in Orvolle for example, lots of back treading on that one, no? ------ ROBBLE ROBBLE
MrBinary	Posted - 2004.03.04 21:06:00 - [15] "There is no abuse, exploit or plain cheating involved." You are wrong. The GM's say it was wrong...that makes it wrong. I swear some of you don't seem to know or understand, what or who the GM's are. Common sence is the rarest commodity, MrBinary "[ 2004.05.20 20:11:42 ] Hodal Xibur > Die MrBinary"
Sally	Posted - 2004.03.04 21:06:00 - [16] Quote: Sally would beat kids with a sledgehammer to steal their candy if there were no police, nevermind the sociopaths. Nice offense here. Hope you get suspended from the forums for that for a few days. -- Stories: #1 --
Deloup Drakar	Posted - 2004.03.04 21:07:00 - [17] Quote: How is what Zombie did an exploit or a fault in game mechanics? Everything they did appeared legit and above board, assuming this is what happened - Zombie sets up a shield tanked apoc at the gate with many smartbombs. apoc commences slaughtering neutrals and is attacked by concord. many other Zombie in scorps assume positions around the apoc and activate legit shield transfer units on the same, thus rendering it neigh on impossible for concord to destroy. There is no abuse, exploit or plain cheating involved. If yulai was supposed to be 100% secure, why doesnt it have sentry guns that deal 20,000 dmg with a 1000km range at the gates, or something else coded that cant be fairly beaten? Bans, even warnings for this are unfair in the best light. If my version of events is correct, everything Zombie pulled is legitimate, and good luck to them for finding a way to kill off some whining mining empire space carebares It's an exploit of the flawed AI that CONCORD won't go after the people using the shield emitters on the shield-tanking apocs, just the person doing the actual attacking. A proper AI for CONCORD would involve them attacking the shield tanking apoc and the scorps that are giving him shield since they are interfering with the law. Consider in RL officers chasing down a criminal, but people in the neighborhood are tossing stuff in front of the cops to slow them down, or shutting doors/gates behind the criminal. It's obstruction of justice and in RL they don't stand for it, so why should it be ok to exploit the current flaw in the AI of CONCORD. The GMs already have stated that people aiding a agressor will be seen as an agressor in Shiva, however they don't think that will get ported into Castor, so they will do a fix on Castor for the time being.
Ishkur	Posted - 2004.03.04 21:08:00 - [18] Yup. This one will get the lock for "trolling". They all get locked for "trolling." What is "trolling" anyway? I think it is whenever they want to lock something, they say, "locked for trolling/flaming" and then that's it. Of course, that's just me. Also, it discusses an exploit (never mind that the GMs post these things on the forums and/or in-game news, we are supposed to read it and then pretend we never saw it). waits for the inevitable click My favorite is when they locked Pann's thread though, and said it was for trolling. That was a classic.
SwitchBl4d3	Posted - 2004.03.04 21:08:00 - [19] theyt should make a new playable server non carebear that u can use on existing accounts. not like chaos i mean from scratch.. think of all the 1.0 frig wars... and of couse no exr=tra payment. all important "Teh lord of Nonni"
ZelRox	Posted - 2004.03.04 21:11:00 - [20] Try to look at it this way. 2 known pirate corps. Zombie Inc want fun. They go grief some noobs. m0o wants fun. They go fight it out with the CA. Difference in style and CLASS, ey ? ---------------------- I wanna tuc tuc ..
Fuujin	Posted - 2004.03.04 21:13:00 - [21] Quote: theyt should make a new playable server non carebear that u can use on existing accounts. not like chaos i mean from scratch.. think of all the 1.0 frig wars... and of couse no exr=tra payment. all important Not everyone wishes to play pirate or fight or whatever. Thats the reason secure space exists, it's so people that can go through the game mining/trading/producing/whatever safely. Just because they choose to play that way doesn't make them any less entitled to the game then you. _______________ The sword has to be more than a simple weapon; it has to be an answer to life's questions
Hematic	Posted - 2004.03.04 21:24:00 - [22] Quote: m0o wants fun. They go fight it out with the CA. You apparently haven't been around long enough to see all the arguing m0o used to do with the GMs. Maybe m0o was never banned because they have a bit of repore(sp?) with CCP from being in beta? Who knows. Personally banning is a bit harsh imo for using game play. Maybe CCP should just institue a system that works and that way no one would get banned.
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.03.04 21:29:00 - [23] Would you also have had no problem with RUS having access to virtually endless supplies of megacyte because their use of the duplication exploit, and subsequent loss of a substantial amount in an indy in Catch (that certainly rings a bell to recent events, non?) alerted CCP to the problem and, as such, they should be congratulated? Any and all exploits should be dealt with in the same harsh manner - nothing else will deter future abuse. Zombie will serve their ban but, in the end, people will make heroes out of them. That's punishment and reward enough. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Basileus	Posted - 2004.03.04 21:34:00 - [24] Edited by: Basileus on 04/03/2004 21:36:57 Quote: The GM's say it's an exploit Thus, it's an exploit Yes, and the GM's know it all, don't they? O dear, did we just start to discuss the GM's actions? That's not allowed, isn't it? You sad, sad people. You just got whooped big time, and the only thing you can come up with is to ban people who were smarter than you. Now,... where have I heard that one before...
Fuujin	Posted - 2004.03.04 21:36:00 - [25] Quote: Quote: The GM's say it's an exploit Thus, it's an exploit Yes, and the GM's know it all, don't they? O dear, did we just start to discuss the GM's actions? That's not allowed, is it? You sad, sad people. You just got whooped big time, and the only thing you can come up with is to ban people who were smarter than you. Now,... where have I heard that one before... They are GM's for a reason, their word is law, wether you like it or not. _______________ The sword has to be more than a simple weapon; it has to be an answer to life's questions
Nybbas	Posted - 2004.03.04 21:46:00 - [26] GMs word is law, and zombie taking advantage of a flaw in game mechanics (namely concord not attacking suport ships) is EXPLOITING that flaw and they did it, not just killing a bunch of carebears, but people new to the game who are not yet ready to go out into 0.0 and fight, (because we ALLL know if you dont go kill people in 0.0 and all you wanna do is hunt npc pirates and mine in security you are a carebear ) were being slaughtered, this is not fun, someone new to the game sees this and thinks, what the hell? they were exploiting and i am OVERJOYED at their punishment.
Shamis Orzoz	Posted - 2004.03.04 22:10:00 - [27] I think that as long as it is possible to attack innocent people in empire space, every player has a right to try to figure out a way to pull it off without getting killed by the police. It may be considered an exploit by some, but tactics like this one can't be compared to exploiting a dup bug or something like that. Out witting the system using normal game play tactics should be allowed. After something like this occurs, the GMs obviously need to change the way the game works to prevent it from happening again, but I don't think that individuals that pulled it off should be banned. One of the coolest things about eve is that it doesn't completely sepearte the PvP'ers from the carebears. Everybody has to live in one world. And all PvP'ers should be allowed to dream about someday taking over empire space. It should be nearly impossible, but if you make it impossible then it becomes unrealistic and boring.
Basileus	Posted - 2004.03.04 22:20:00 - [28] Quote: ...but tactics like this one can't be compared to exploiting a dup bug or something like that. Out witting the system using normal game play tactics should be allowed. ... After something like this occurs, the GMs obviously need to change the way the game works to prevent it from happening again, but I don't think that individuals that pulled it off should be banned. I could not agree with you more.
Vodalus	Posted - 2004.03.04 23:02:00 - [29] Maybe they got banned because the GM's showed up, and asked them to stop, but they refused? -------------------------------------------------------------- Originally by: Oveur EVE is primarily a PVP game
dalman	Posted - 2004.03.04 23:11:00 - [30] Quote: Maybe they got banned because the GM's showed up, and asked them to stop, but they refused? Exactly. Senior GMs told them to stop it. They didn't stop it. Quote: SUSPENSION AND BAN POLICY 7. MISCELLANEOUS Severe offenses may result in an immediate ban without warning; however, warnings may be given for first time offenses, followed by account suspensions of varying degree and ultimately a permanent ban if a player: a. Fails to follow the instructions of authorized EVE personnel. M.I.A. since 2004-07-30
Nybbas	Posted - 2004.03.04 23:13:00 - [31] exactly, there is no way to honestly defend them, and their punishment was severe, and i doubt anyone will do something like that again, after seeing what the punishment is. these people were griefers, they were not profiting anything other than ruining some poor n00bs day. that is it, 1.0 are never EVER supposed to be able to be controlled like that, thats why its 1.0 it was a flaw in the game design and they saw the opportunity to exploit the flaw. zero tolerance, sorry, anyone has you say has done something like this before and didnt get banned got off easy. they did not. nothing has been done on a scale like this before.
Zarthan	Posted - 2004.03.04 23:16:00 - [32] Quote: Maybe they got banned because the GM's showed up, and asked them to stop, but they refused? you are the winner! _______________________________________________________ Get custom sigs and graphics done here Unforgivn Website
pooti	Posted - 2004.03.04 23:17:00 - [33] ccp made the game, they can do whatever the hell they want there's plenty of room for arguing interpretations as to what they mean with certain rules, but when they say "don't do what you're doing," well, don't ******* do it.
Archain	Posted - 2004.03.04 23:18:00 - [34] In my eyes their tactic was legit, my hat goes off to them for a job well done. An awesome use of teamwork was displayed there. Space Invaders Movie Library - [SPVD]
Skelator	Posted - 2004.03.04 23:18:00 - [35] Quote: "There is no abuse, exploit or plain cheating involved." You are wrong. The GM's say it was wrong...that makes it wrong. I swear some of you don't seem to know or understand, what or who the GM's are. Common sence is the rarest commodity, MrBinary Referees have the FINAL word on any outcome .. In ANY Game They have us Surrounded again.. the Poor Bastards
Skelator	Posted - 2004.03.04 23:20:00 - [36] Quote: Try to look at it this way. 2 known pirate corps. Zombie Inc want fun. They go grief some noobs. m0o wants fun. They go fight it out with the CA. Difference in style and CLASS, ey ? Yes M00 has Class even though I dont like pirates They have us Surrounded again.. the Poor Bastards
Eduard	Posted - 2004.03.04 23:29:00 - [37] Edited by: Eduard on 04/03/2004 23:34:41 Quote: The GM's say it's an exploit Thus, it's an exploit Hmm. When I report same behave of PKers but only just in 0.4 I was told by GM it's legit tactics. So how CCP staff suppose have double approach to same problem? Isn't sentry tnaking same tactics as CONCORD tanking? I think something is seriously broken in EVE's mechanic. Zombie was only so stupid do it in 1.0 if they would do same in 0.4 then they woldn't called exploiters. How long we will see this shortsighting? Personally I think simple change in EVE dynamic in way of punish supporting ships too by firing on them would be enough. I'd play E&B and there when I was healer (not even involved in group) and use recharge on mates shields I got attacked by all MOBs around. It would be esier do call it exploit or just fix game? I would prefer fixing game.
Jimmeh	Posted - 2004.03.04 23:34:00 - [38] If players want pvp, they know where to go and get it, the game has plenty of capacity for that. One of the great things about EVE is that there are so many ways to play the game. Not everyone wants pvp, some want to build stuff and create an empire, amass wealth etc, and they should be able to do that too. Just because some people want to play the game differently to others doesn't justify the overt and calculated griefing perpetrated by Zomby. Carebears have their place in the game too. Zomby's action will have discouraged noobs, it made a mockery of the concept of 'safe' systems, and in ignoring a GM's request to stop they showed a total disrespect for the wider game. You commit murder, you get a life sentence. Justice is seen to be done. Well handled, CCP.
Hellena	Posted - 2004.03.04 23:46:00 - [39] Quote: In my eyes their tactic was legit, my hat goes off to them for a job well done. An awesome use of teamwork was displayed there. agreed. it was pretty smart tactics to use sheild ships to keep the apoc going. HOWEVER they must have known the scorps would not be attacked even though they were helping someone break the law. that part there is an exploit in my opinion. plus the GM asked them to stop(?) they should have then. but they did not so they got banned. simple. and yes, even though GMs might not always be right, their word is Law, just like in real life. governments might not be right but cant do much about it. Not Just Another Pretty Face La Maison Hostess
Mau dib	Posted - 2004.03.04 23:47:00 - [40] Quote: How is what Zombie did an exploit or a fault in game mechanics? Everything they did appeared legit and above board, assuming this is what happened - Zombie sets up a shield tanked apoc at the gate with many smartbombs. apoc commences slaughtering neutrals and is attacked by concord. many other Zombie in scorps assume positions around the apoc and activate legit shield transfer units on the same, thus rendering it neigh on impossible for concord to destroy. There is no abuse, exploit or plain cheating involved. If yulai was supposed to be 100% secure, why doesnt it have sentry guns that deal 20,000 dmg with a 1000km range at the gates, or something else coded that cant be fairly beaten? Bans, even warnings for this are unfair in the best light. If my version of events is correct, everything Zombie pulled is legitimate, and good luck to them for finding a way to kill off some whining mining empire space carebares I agree. If someone can prove that this was a DOCUMENTED exploit by CCP then they should be banned, but where was it posted that there was a rule you could NOT do this. CCP should not make up rules as AFTER people break them. That is just BS!
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2004.03.04 23:55:00 - [41] Cut the crap, Zombie knew they would be banned, they did this for fame. There really should be a 2000 character cap on muad dibs... Convert Stations
Jash Illian	Posted - 2004.03.04 23:55:00 - [42] Edited by: Jash Illian on 04/03/2004 23:57:17 Quote: ccp made the game, they can do whatever the hell they want there's plenty of room for arguing interpretations as to what they mean with certain rules, but when they say "don't do what you're doing," well, don't ***** do it. Well I agree with the sentiment, pooti. But it requires: 1) Saying it before the fact 2) Saying what not to do 3) Saying it some place where it can be verified. This: Quote:** As a lot of you are aware, a certain corp willingly exploited a fault in the game mechanics and managed to kill over a 100 people in the supposedly secure Yulai system last night. We have decreed that those who were the recipiants of this heinous crime will be fully reimbursed for their loss. If you are one of those who lost your belongings and still haven¦t petitioned us, please do so and we will see to it that your possessions are returned to you. The exploiters have received a ban for their efforts and anyone thinking of following their example should be aware that the same fate awaits them. - The GM Team is: 1) Vague on what not to do 2) After the fact. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Vorax	Posted - 2004.03.05 00:02:00 - [43] "I agree. If someone can prove that this was a DOCUMENTED exploit by CCP then they should be banned, but where was it posted that there was a rule you could NOT do this. CCP should not make up rules as AFTER people break them. That is just BS!" You should read the manuals..you will find it. "12.14 How do I know whatÆs legal or illegal in the game? Using the game mechanics in any way to achieve an unintended game behavior is exploiting. " 1.0 sec zones are supposed to be 100% safe from PvP, thus anything that can be done to make it unsafe, is an exploit. Read the manuals people!
Interferon	Posted - 2004.03.05 00:07:00 - [44] Exploit or Not, Right or Wrong, as soon as the GM's asked them to stop and they did not, then Zombie sealed their own fate when they continued to fire and thereby BROKE THE TERMS OF THE END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT.....'nuff said? "What we are dealing with heah, is a complete and total lack of respect for the LAWAH!"...Sheriff Beufford T. Justice
McWatt	Posted - 2004.03.05 00:10:00 - [45] Quote: 1.0 sec zones are supposed to be 100% safe from PvP, thus anything that can be done to make it unsafe, is an exploit. Read the manuals people! says who? what manual? *******s!
J3tt	Posted - 2004.03.05 00:14:00 - [46] zombie>ccp w00t ----------------------------------------- Can your pod outrun a cruise missle?
Vorax	Posted - 2004.03.05 00:15:00 - [47] Edited by: Vorax on 05/03/2004 00:18:34 "says who? what manual? *******s!" I think it was implied by the 1.0 meaning the zone is completely secured by Concord. You have to use a bit of common sense with their statement, not alot, but your brain has to be turned on. Is it wrong to beat someone to death with a club? You could say, it is ok if you don't get caught, but you would be worng and when caught, you would go to jail. If you can't see the point, try getting some intelligence implants.
Monty Burns	Posted - 2004.03.05 00:18:00 - [48] Quote: The GM's say it's an exploit Thus, it's an exploit B*1L S!"t The GMS/game designers were warned about this tactic MANY MANY times in advance, they took no action. These guys use mechanisms that were IN USE and readily available. Welcome to the world of money .... :-( You guys paint EVE as a dark world .... learn and adapt like we have to with your NPC rats. Police get swamped in riots, guess what .... they come out a day/2 stronger ... it don't happen often that it continues over an extended period. You guys got caught off-guard, deal with it like we do as players. This is a GREAT thing ... learn from it! Be lucky! Darwin 4tw
Jash Illian	Posted - 2004.03.05 00:33:00 - [49] Vorax: if you can't tell the difference between this: Quote: Edited by: Vorax on 05/03/2004 00:18:34 "says who? what manual? *****s!" I think it was implied by the 1.0 meaning the zone is completely secured by Concord. You have to use a bit of common sense with their statement, not alot, but your brain has to be turned on. Is it wrong to beat someone to death with a club? You could say, it is ok if you don't get caught, but you would be worng and when caught, you would go to jail. If you can't see the point, try getting some intelligence implants. And this: Quote:** You should read the manuals..you will find it. 1.0 sec zones are supposed to be 100% safe from PvP, thus anything that can be done to make it unsafe, is an exploit. Read the manuals people! then you've got problems. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Kalissa	Posted - 2004.03.05 00:33:00 - [50] If there's one good thing that can come from what the Zombie guys did is that maybe this exploit will now be a higher priority for CCP to fix. Also well done to CCP for banning these griefers. 1.0 space is there for a reason, and thats to give noobs and people who don't get their fun out of Eve through combat a safe place to enjoy themselves. The Zombie guys knew what they were doing was wrong and not in the spirit of the game. They got exactly what they deserved. Personally I not only would I have banned them, I'd have taken a couple of million skill points off their characters for this.
Fuujin	Posted - 2004.03.05 01:01:00 - [51] Quote: zombie>ccp w00t Last i checked zombie were the ones that got banned and not CCP =\ _______________ The sword has to be more than a simple weapon; it has to be an answer to life's questions
Slithereen	Posted - 2004.03.05 01:20:00 - [52] The profoundity is not really about killing in 1.0 space, since the GMs can personally enforce any law, but with corp wars in empire space, even in the same 1.0 Yulai system or in empire capitals. Think of it this way. Person A has a corp war, flying any battleship, let's say, an Apoc. Person A goes on to engage Person B, whom Person A has a corp war with. Person C is Person A's good friend or ally. But Person C is not part of the Person A's corp, and is not involved in the corp war with Person B. Person C comes with an Armaggedon with few guns, relays on the back end, with shield adn energy transfer modules. As Person A and B starts their fight, Person C flies to within transfer distance of Person A, and starts pumping Person B's shields and energy up. Person B cannot attack Person C,without the Concord coming down on him. In the end, Person A wins. Person C may even be an alt of Person A. :P There is just so many ways to exploit these modules and the system. CCP really needs to remedy this serious loophole. One suggested restriction is that transfers are only allowed within gangs, requiring that gangs must be formed. Anything within that gang, regardless of which corp they belong to, would be automatically be included as combantants and participants in the corp war, and should be considered legitimate targets. And of course, the NPC AI should be written to target anyone making transfers to the "criminal", whether its sentry guns, Concord, or the Navies (the current loophole also makes it possible to farm Navy NPCs). _______________________________________________ "Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies, "Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy. "Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
Hafthor	Posted - 2004.03.05 03:16:00 - [53] Zombie deserved to be banned. It is obvious since they.. got banned I do however think they weren't banned for long.. just a week or so. Sad.. all this fuss over something that wasn't really that hard to do. It's not as if noone had thought of it. It's just that noone was dumb enough to do it in Yulai. And for those that think Zombie didn't know this was an exploit, read this. Quite funny... shortly after that post Triniton got his wish fulfilled.
Hafthor	Posted - 2004.03.05 03:17:00 - [54] ohh and Quote: There really should be a 2000 character cap on muad dibs...
Imperishable	Posted - 2004.03.05 03:30:00 - [55] If I was in charge of CCP. I'd simply get the GMs warn people on different chat channels about the gate camp and also try to organize a player driven event where players have an opportunity to help CONCORD without it being considered hostile action by it. I hate all artifical solutions to game problems. Players can solve everything, they just need someone to organize and direct them.
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2004.03.05 03:33:00 - [56] Yes if they could've instantly made Zombie fair game everywhere that'd be super. But since no such tool is in place. Convert Stations
Imperishable	Posted - 2004.03.05 03:40:00 - [57] I thought the whole reason for choosing to code game logic in python script was to make it easily customizable at run time, withing rebooting servers. They have the tools, they just took the easy way out. Many people complain here about about poor role playing and lack of content supported story. It's not just the players. CCP also don't like to role play much, else they would have turned this into a special event and made a story
Vorax	Posted - 2004.03.05 03:45:00 - [58] Edited by: Vorax on 05/03/2004 03:47:41 Edited by: Vorax on 05/03/2004 03:46:41 Ok, perhpas my explanation using some of CCP's info and an elobaration and some metaphors were a little to abstract of an explanation as to why this is an exploit. Heres one last attempt at simplification, read slow and look up the big words with an adult if necessary: If it seems wrong it probably is. If you do it and get banned, don't whine about it or whine about others banned for doing it. Any clearer? Picture forming yet? 1+1=2 and all that? Deep breaths...concentrate
Cattraknoff	Posted - 2004.03.05 04:06:00 - [59] Quote: I thought the whole reason for choosing to code game logic in python script was to make it easily customizable at run time, withing rebooting servers. They have the tools, they just took the easy way out. Many people complain here about about poor role playing and lack of content supported story. It's not just the players. CCP also don't like to role play much, else they would have turned this into a special event and made a story yes, they coulda said, members from zombie inc killed hundreds of new pilots etc...they were sentenced to 10 days or w/e in a maximum secuirty prison, and concord apologises for the lost ships and promises full reimbnursement, just a small rp story like that
Doppleganger	Posted - 2004.03.05 06:15:00 - [60] Quote: or gone there themselves and taken Zombie out. They did..... they took those Zombie members out (of the game for a bit).
Alynthir	Posted - 2004.03.05 07:09:00 - [61] Zombie took advantage of a flaw in the game AI - True. Zombie exploited - False. I can understand the various arguments here, but the fact is that a pirate corp worked together to embarrass CONCORD and CCP. The devs should take a role playing approach to this, install uber sentry guns in 1.0 systems and send some elite CONCORD ships (GMs) after the criminals to hunt them down. Another thing: On a different thread, drunkenmaster of SPVD noted that no one tried to stop Zombie either. Now that I think about it, he's right. The thought never crossed my mind because I didn't actually realize what was going on until things started widning down. Even then, the half dozen guys in my squad were all in frigates. But drunk is correct in that I find it surprising that one of the corps with a bit more heavy metal on hand didn't open up on the Zombie ships. I mean, it's not like CONCORD was going to shoot back. They were too busy shooting at that Apoc. _____ CLS Civil Affairs Bureau "Permanent = Today's Plan." Training: Noob Instructor Level 5
Nuclear Baggins	Posted - 2004.03.05 07:24:00 - [62] Quote: ccp made the game, they can do whatever the hell they want there's plenty of room for arguing interpretations as to what they mean with certain rules, but when they say "don't do what you're doing," well, don't ******* do it. Got to say very good point
Capn Blood	Posted - 2004.03.05 07:35:00 - [63] Didn't TankCEO and Molly get temporary bans for killing people in 1.0 sec space waaayyy back? It was stated clearly then, that attacking someone in 1.0 space and NOT getting killed by Concord is considered to be an exploit. Yulai 1.0 Zombies not killed by Concord. Exploit. Argueing won't change it, and if they WERE told to stop by the GMs and didn't, then they should get PERM bans for being so stupid if nothing else. Don't want to throw the whole carebear thing out here, but pirates do it fast enough. Carebears are people who want the game changed solely in their own favour. Anyone whining at CCP because they can't gank people in 1.0 is a cearbear. Anyone whining about CCP banning people is a carebear. Not knowing the rules is no defence, it's up to you to find out if what you are doing is illegal or not. Now stop flogging this dead horse and get on with something else ============================================== "Trust no man who says to you that 'The ends justify the means' or who says that 'We will do whatever it takes...'. These men have no honour, and are fit only to be politicians." The book of Rab Chapter 1, Verse 3. ==============================================
Jash Illian	Posted - 2004.03.05 08:08:00 - [64] Quote: Didn't TankCEO and Molly get temporary bans for killing people in 1.0 sec space waaayyy back? It was stated clearly then, that attacking someone in 1.0 space and NOT getting killed by Concord is considered to be an exploit. BUZZ...Wrong. What happened then was totally different as Concord was completely broken and was not responding in those solar systems at all. And Molly was incorrectly accused, as I still have the screenshots of her warp scrambled, webified and jammed by CONCORD when they did respond. Since you started with a flawed assumption, the rest isn't important. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Thano	Posted - 2004.03.05 08:18:00 - [65] Quote: Zombie took advantage of a flaw in the game AI - True. Zombie exploited - False. Quote: hmm looks like someone doesnt know what exploiting is because you just contradicted yourself. in this context exploiting would be: takeing advantage of a flaw in game machanics to gain an un fair advantage.... and last time i checked Game AI was a game machanic. but that is irelivent in the fact exploiting or not the GMs told them to stop and they refused that alone is reason to be banned
Alynthir	Posted - 2004.03.05 08:45:00 - [66] Quote: Quote: Zombie took advantage of a flaw in the game AI - True. Zombie exploited - False. Quote: hmm looks like someone doesnt know what exploiting is because you just contradicted yourself. in this context exploiting would be: takeing advantage of a flaw in game machanics to gain an un fair advantage.... and last time i checked Game AI was a game machanic. but that is irelivent in the fact exploiting or not the GMs told them to stop and they refused that alone is reason to be banned Thano, I'm just saying that if CCP truly wanted to make 1.0 safe, they should take steps to do so. What Zombie did should have not been allowed to continue after then first minute or two because a GM piloted Death Squad shows up and blasts them to atoms. As to the flaw in the AI, this has been something that CCP has known about for a long time. Maybe now they will finally do something about it. _____ CLS Civil Affairs Bureau "Permanent = Today's Plan." Training: Noob Instructor Level 5
Busko Moonwalker	Posted - 2004.03.05 09:38:00 - [67] Well in my opione i think the ban is ok. AS the Gms told the Zombis to stop but they ignored them and cont to do what they where doing. I bet that that tiped the balace to a ban. Like i said before its CCPs(GMs) game and they deside whats Exploit and whats not. Also i dont buy the fact they someone was saying they knew about that (bug) and whated to show ccp what they need to fix coz if that was the point they could have contacted GMs and showed it somewhere else without killing lots of players. You dont like it make our own game and deside whats allowed and whats not.
Spaceman	Posted - 2004.03.05 10:21:00 - [68] Hmm, I sold 8 large smartbomb's the other night in Luminaire, I will have to check my log see who it was too! Space 'Eve, possibly as addictive as drink & drugs, only less understood, which could make it inherently more dangerous'
Capn Blood	Posted - 2004.03.05 10:29:00 - [69] Quote: Quote: Didn't TankCEO and Molly get temporary bans for killing people in 1.0 sec space waaayyy back? It was stated clearly then, that attacking someone in 1.0 space and NOT getting killed by Concord is considered to be an exploit. BUZZ...Wrong. What happened then was totally different as Concord was completely broken and was not responding in those solar systems at all. And Molly was incorrectly accused, as I still have the screenshots of her warp scrambled, webified and jammed by CONCORD when they did respond. Since you started with a flawed assumption, the rest isn't important. BUZZZZ Wrong.... Just because first part was wrong doesn't make the 2nd part worng. Also it was a question, not a statement of fact, so kinda pointless post Jash. CCP still stated categorically, that killing in a 1.0 sec system and not getting killed by Concord IS an exploit. There is NO argument. They stated it clearly. All this amateur lawyering and argueing is pointless. If you disagree I suggest you bring it up with the devs and mods, they sure aren't gunna wade through these sorts of posts. ============================================== "Trust no man who says to you that 'The ends justify the means' or who says that 'We will do whatever it takes...'. These men have no honour, and are fit only to be politicians." The book of Rab Chapter 1, Verse 3. ==============================================
fras	Posted - 2004.03.05 10:43:00 - [70] RUS duplicating megacyte and this incident have got nothing to do with each other. One was clearly a cheat and the other using legit in game mechanics to get around CONCORD. They both may be viewed as exploits but one of them is alot more respectable than the other imo.
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2004.03.05 11:03:00 - [71] it's not a flaw in the game mechanics, it's a flaw in the game design. Sentry guns were never designed to cycle targets. Concord was never designed to cycle targets. People offering shields were never designed to be marked hostile. Concord weren't designed to be able to stop smartbombing. Concord weren't designed with increasing reaction levels. If any of these things were in the design, implemented, and not working, then yes, it would be a flaw in the mechanics, or 'bug' if you prefer. They are simply features that have not been put in the game yet. it would be like banning ninja miners. What they do is against the intentions of the game ("you're not supposed to mine ark at zero risk, etc."), but the NPC's weren't designed to counter ninja tactics, so you can't call that a flaw in the mechanics, either. I still maintain that they should have been punished. But any more than a temp ban would be overdoing it. Nobody lost anything here, most would have gained some free isk. .
Tyrrax Thorrk	Posted - 2004.03.05 11:04:00 - [72] Those of you claiming everyone's already been reimbursed (drunkenmaster) Hah. I haven't gotten anything yet 2 days later :P Doubt it'll be fully reimbursed for another few days. http://eve.klaki.net/
Grimster	Posted - 2004.03.05 11:16:00 - [73] Quote: CCP still stated categorically, that killing in a 1.0 sec system and not getting killed by Concord IS an exploit. There is NO argument. They stated it clearly. I'm finding this one kinda bizarre. What you're saying is that if you "accidentaly" shoot someone in 1.0 (this can happen with the new bracket colours - yellow vs orange) then you should just float there, and wait to be smacked by Concord rather than run away. Pffft! I'm running mate. On topic proper, yes it was funny. Most people knew what was going on within the 1st 20 or 30 kills (I was 54 jumps away at the time and I knew what was going on) so a lot of rubberkneckers got ganked - but.... If you ignore the GM's when told to stop something then expect trouble. My 2p.
McWatt	Posted - 2004.03.05 11:22:00 - [74] Edited by: McWatt on 05/03/2004 11:22:55 Quote: Just because first part was wrong doesn't make the 2nd part worng. Also it was a question, not a statement of fact, so kinda pointless post Jash. just don t connect two sentences with "(if) ...then" if the first one is wrong. it makes little sense. if the first part was a real question, then isn t it pointless to draw conclusions of stuff you do not know? as i see it: 1. 1.0 is not meant to be 100% safe. 2. ccp would save itself lots of trouble if they would fix problems instead of having a lot of possible abuses and exploits hanging around. the simple fact is, they did a sloppy job. 3. again, as DM has pointed out above, we see how different acts (killing, ninja/grid/can mining, bookmarks,....) get very different treatment. 4. situation as it is now, is still rather unclear: if i kill 2 ppl at once, is it enough if i die once? or do i owe concord a death? would it have been ok if zombie had finally let concord****their ships after the event? so: fix the ***** game and don t punish ppl for pointing to the holes.
DREAMWORKS	Posted - 2004.03.05 12:00:00 - [75] Edited by: DREAMWORKS on 05/03/2004 12:03:12 Zombie took advantage of a flaw in the game AI. Zomie was asked to stop or face the consequences. Zombie didnt stopped and is now sitting on the blisters. Its pretty easy, and no reason to discuss it more than that. CCP made this game, CCP controlls this game. Their will = law. Live with it. And i don't agree with my fellow corp members, if your warned beforehand and you ignore that then no GM should even bother trying to blow up ships. There is a statement that has to be made: You don't play by CCP's rules, you ignore GM's = no more eve. Simple. __________________________ http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html
Orestes	Posted - 2004.03.05 12:03:00 - [76] What Dreamworks said. On second thought, I'm going to keep this thread closed.. Join the IC!

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