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Alynthir
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Posted - 2004.03.05 07:09:00 -
[61]
Zombie took advantage of a flaw in the game AI - True.
Zombie exploited - False.
I can understand the various arguments here, but the fact is that a pirate corp worked together to embarrass CONCORD and CCP. The devs should take a role playing approach to this, install uber sentry guns in 1.0 systems and send some elite CONCORD ships (GMs) after the criminals to hunt them down.
Another thing: On a different thread, drunkenmaster of SPVD noted that no one tried to stop Zombie either. Now that I think about it, he's right. The thought never crossed my mind because I didn't actually realize what was going on until things started widning down. Even then, the half dozen guys in my squad were all in frigates. But drunk is correct in that I find it surprising that one of the corps with a bit more heavy metal on hand didn't open up on the Zombie ships.
I mean, it's not like CONCORD was going to shoot back. They were too busy shooting at that Apoc. 
_____
CLS Civil Affairs Bureau
"Permanent = Today's Plan."
Training: Noob Instructor Level 5  |
Nuclear Baggins
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Posted - 2004.03.05 07:24:00 -
[62]
 Quote:
ccp made the game, they can do whatever the hell they want
there's plenty of room for arguing interpretations as to what they mean with certain rules, but when they say "don't do what you're doing," well, don't ******* do it.
Got to say very good point 
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Capn Blood
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Posted - 2004.03.05 07:35:00 -
[63]
Didn't TankCEO and Molly get temporary bans for killing people in 1.0 sec space waaayyy back?
It was stated clearly then, that attacking someone in 1.0 space and NOT getting killed by Concord is considered to be an exploit.
Yulai 1.0
Zombies not killed by Concord.
Exploit.
Argueing won't change it, and if they WERE told to stop by the GMs and didn't, then they should get PERM bans for being so stupid if nothing else.
Don't want to throw the whole carebear thing out here, but pirates do it fast enough. Carebears are people who want the game changed solely in their own favour.
Anyone whining at CCP because they can't gank people in 1.0 is a cearbear.
Anyone whining about CCP banning people is a carebear.
Not knowing the rules is no defence, it's up to you to find out if what you are doing is illegal or not.
Now stop flogging this dead horse and get on with something else 
==============================================
"Trust no man who says to you that 'The ends justify the means' or who says that 'We will do whatever it takes...'.
These men have no honour, and are fit only to be politicians."
The book of Rab
Chapter 1, Verse 3.
============================================== |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.03.05 08:08:00 -
[64]
Quote:
Didn't TankCEO and Molly get temporary bans for killing people in 1.0 sec space waaayyy back?
It was stated clearly then, that attacking someone in 1.0 space and NOT getting killed by Concord is considered to be an exploit.
*BUZZ*...Wrong. What happened then was totally different as Concord was completely broken and was not responding in those solar systems at all. And Molly was incorrectly accused, as I still have the screenshots of her warp scrambled, webified and jammed by CONCORD when they did respond.
Since you started with a flawed assumption, the rest isn't important.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Thano
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Posted - 2004.03.05 08:18:00 -
[65]
Quote:
Zombie took advantage of a flaw in the game AI - True.
Zombie exploited - False.
Quote:
hmm looks like someone doesnt know what exploiting is because you just contradicted yourself. in this context exploiting would be: takeing advantage of a flaw in game machanics to gain an un fair advantage.... and last time i checked Game AI was a game machanic. but that is irelivent in the fact exploiting or not the GMs told them to stop and they refused that alone is reason to be banned
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Alynthir
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Posted - 2004.03.05 08:45:00 -
[66]
Quote:
Quote:
Zombie took advantage of a flaw in the game AI - True.
Zombie exploited - False.
Quote:
hmm looks like someone doesnt know what exploiting is because you just contradicted yourself. in this context exploiting would be: takeing advantage of a flaw in game machanics to gain an un fair advantage.... and last time i checked Game AI was a game machanic. but that is irelivent in the fact exploiting or not the GMs told them to stop and they refused that alone is reason to be banned
Thano, I'm just saying that if CCP truly wanted to make 1.0 safe, they should take steps to do so. What Zombie did should have not been allowed to continue after then first minute or two because a GM piloted Death Squad shows up and blasts them to atoms.
As to the flaw in the AI, this has been something that CCP has known about for a long time. Maybe now they will finally do something about it.
_____
CLS Civil Affairs Bureau
"Permanent = Today's Plan."
Training: Noob Instructor Level 5 |
Busko Moonwalker
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Posted - 2004.03.05 09:38:00 -
[67]
Well in my opione i think the ban is ok.
AS the Gms told the Zombis to stop but they ignored them and cont to do what they where doing.
I bet that that tiped the balace to a ban. Like i said before its CCPs(GMs) game and they deside whats Exploit and whats not.
Also i dont buy the fact they someone was saying they knew about that (bug) and whated to show ccp what they need to fix coz if that was the point they could have contacted GMs and showed it somewhere else without killing lots of players.
You dont like it make our own game and deside whats allowed and whats not.
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Spaceman
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Posted - 2004.03.05 10:21:00 -
[68]
Hmm, I sold 8 large smartbomb's the other night in Luminaire, I will have to check my log see who it was too!
Space
'Eve, possibly as addictive as drink & drugs, only less understood, which could make it inherently more dangerous' |
Capn Blood
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Posted - 2004.03.05 10:29:00 -
[69]
Quote:
Quote:
Didn't TankCEO and Molly get temporary bans for killing people in 1.0 sec space waaayyy back?
It was stated clearly then, that attacking someone in 1.0 space and NOT getting killed by Concord is considered to be an exploit.
*BUZZ*...Wrong. What happened then was totally different as Concord was completely broken and was not responding in those solar systems at all. And Molly was incorrectly accused, as I still have the screenshots of her warp scrambled, webified and jammed by CONCORD when they did respond.
Since you started with a flawed assumption, the rest isn't important.
BUZZZZ Wrong....
Just because first part was wrong doesn't make the 2nd part worng. Also it was a question, not a statement of fact, so kinda pointless post Jash.
CCP still stated categorically, that killing in a 1.0 sec system and not getting killed by Concord IS an exploit.
There is NO argument.
They stated it clearly.
All this amateur lawyering and argueing is pointless. If you disagree I suggest you bring it up with the devs and mods, they sure aren't gunna wade through these sorts of posts.
==============================================
"Trust no man who says to you that 'The ends justify the means' or who says that 'We will do whatever it takes...'.
These men have no honour, and are fit only to be politicians."
The book of Rab
Chapter 1, Verse 3.
============================================== |
fras
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Posted - 2004.03.05 10:43:00 -
[70]
RUS duplicating megacyte and this incident have got nothing to do with each other. One was clearly a cheat and the other using legit in game mechanics to get around CONCORD.
They both may be viewed as exploits but one of them is alot more respectable than the other imo.
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2004.03.05 11:03:00 -
[71]
it's not a flaw in the game mechanics, it's a flaw in the game design.
Sentry guns were never *designed* to cycle targets.
Concord was never designed to cycle targets.
People offering shields were never *designed* to be marked hostile.
Concord weren't *designed* to be able to stop smartbombing.
Concord weren't *designed* with increasing reaction levels.
If any of these things were in the design, implemented, and not working, then yes, it would be a flaw in the mechanics, or 'bug' if you prefer.
They are simply features that have not been put in the game yet.
it would be like banning ninja miners. What they do is against the intentions of the game ("you're not supposed to mine ark at zero risk, etc."), but the NPC's weren't designed to counter ninja tactics, so you can't call that a flaw in the mechanics, either.
I still maintain that they should have been punished. But any more than a temp ban would be overdoing it. Nobody lost anything here, most would have gained some free isk.
.
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Tyrrax Thorrk
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Posted - 2004.03.05 11:04:00 -
[72]
Those of you claiming everyone's already been reimbursed (drunkenmaster) Hah. I haven't gotten anything yet 2 days later :P Doubt it'll be fully reimbursed for another few days.
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Grimster
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Posted - 2004.03.05 11:16:00 -
[73]
Quote:
CCP still stated categorically, that killing in a 1.0 sec system and not getting killed by Concord IS an exploit.
There is NO argument.
They stated it clearly.
I'm finding this one kinda bizarre. What you're saying is that if you "accidentaly" shoot someone in 1.0 (this can happen with the new bracket colours - yellow vs orange) then you should just float there, and wait to be smacked by Concord rather than run away.
Pffft! I'm running mate.
On topic proper, yes it was funny. Most people knew what was going on within the 1st 20 or 30 kills (I was 54 jumps away at the time and I knew what was going on) so a lot of rubberkneckers got ganked - but....
If you ignore the GM's when told to stop something then expect trouble.
My 2p. 
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McWatt
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Posted - 2004.03.05 11:22:00 -
[74]
Edited by: McWatt on 05/03/2004 11:22:55
Quote:
Just because first part was wrong doesn't make the 2nd part worng. Also it was a question, not a statement of fact, so kinda pointless post Jash.
just don t connect two sentences with "(if) ...then" if the first one is wrong. it makes little sense.
if the first part was a real question, then isn t it pointless to draw conclusions of stuff you do not know?
as i see it:
1. 1.0 is not meant to be 100% safe.
2. ccp would save itself lots of trouble if they would fix problems instead of having a lot of possible abuses and exploits hanging around.
the simple fact is, they did a sloppy job.
3. again, as DM has pointed out above, we see how different acts (killing, ninja/grid/can mining, bookmarks,....) get very different treatment.
4. situation as it is now, is still rather unclear: if i kill 2 ppl at once, is it enough if i die once? or do i owe concord a death?
would it have been ok if zombie had finally let concord******their ships after the event?
so: fix the ******* game and don t punish ppl for pointing to the holes.
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DREAMWORKS
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Posted - 2004.03.05 12:00:00 -
[75]
Edited by: DREAMWORKS on 05/03/2004 12:03:12
Zombie took advantage of a flaw in the game AI.
Zomie was asked to stop or face the consequences.
Zombie didnt stopped and is now sitting on the blisters.
Its pretty easy, and no reason to discuss it more than that.
CCP made this game, CCP controlls this game. Their will = law.
Live with it.
And i don't agree with my fellow corp members, if your warned beforehand and you ignore that then no GM should even bother trying to blow up ships. There is a statement that has to be made: You don't play by CCP's rules, you ignore GM's = no more eve. Simple.
__________________________
http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html |
Orestes
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Posted - 2004.03.05 12:03:00 -
[76]
What Dreamworks said.
On second thought, I'm going to keep this thread closed..
Join the IC! |
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