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Snake Doctor MacroIntel United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2007.11.20 22:36:00 - [31] Originally by: Mazupty Interesting to see Makinaws mentionned. Got me wondering what % of the ice is mined by actual players, because let's face it: it's probably the most drudging carrer of EvE. As a side effect, if (extremely unlikely) you were able to drive away those macro miners, how many alliances would collapse from lack of fuel to maintain their (over) extended sovereignty? Maybe you should be more careful as you are indirectly declaring war on all the mega alliances Actually, I see many, many real players mining Ice. That's the good news. The bad news is that there are alliances that are supported either directly (you know who you are) or indirectly by ice macros and isk farmers. We perfectly understand how this chain works. While we hope to have the luxury of being a non-political entity, we understand the risk involved. We'd love to go out to 0.0 and help kill the farmers, but it's really hard to be effective when every roving gang coming through the system wants to send you 50 jumps in the other direction. Look- If you want to start a war with me because you lost your sov because your fleet of macros can't operate anymore or you can't spend $$ to buy ISK, go right ahead. If I'm your biggest concern once you've lost sov due to an ice shortage, I'm beyond flattered. Join Macrointel!
Snake Doctor MacroIntel United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2007.11.20 22:39:00 - [32] Originally by: Paulo Damarr Originally by: Devian 666 You have confirmed my theory. You claim that MacroIntel have no authority to attack macroers. Eve is a pvp game and they can attack anyone that they believe, on reasonable grounds, to be a macroer. Myself and many of the pilots I fly with do not operate under such guidelines. We will gun down any pod pilot we see fit to attack. Stick that in your grief play pipe. So a Player is within his rights as a EVE player to conduct acts of harassment in game in an attempt to enforce CCPs EULA? If someone started a Corp "account sharing Intel" and flew around accusing people off sharing accounts with no proof and killed them and followed them around and posting accusations would this be considered acceptable? As long as they didn't use cheats to identify such players, yes. While account sharing isn't the biggest item on the list, lots of farmers are guilty of it as well. You keep mentioning "what's acceptable" and likening it to some moral equivalent in real life, but EVE doesn't work that way. Join Macrointel!
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2007.11.20 22:46:00 - [33] Originally by: Snake Doctor As long as they didn't use cheats to identify such players, yes. While account sharing isn't the biggest item on the list, lots of farmers are guilty of it as well. You keep mentioning "what's acceptable" and likening it to some moral equivalent in real life, but EVE doesn't work that way. Ok dude its nothing personal I just think your out of order and carrying out a witch hunt and im sure in the witch finder generals time the people strapping old ladys to a burning stake thought themselves justified to. What your doing is vigilantism at best, Dress it all down and its simple you are accusing people of a bannable offense and then acting on those accusations. Its the GM teams role to punish people in breech of the EULA and not yours. Cloaks!!
Iota Belisarius Ion Corp. Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.20 22:48:00 - [34] Edited by: Iota Belisarius on 20/11/2007 22:51:42 CCP gives all players to kill whoever they want for whatever reason. Enforcing the EULA is not illegal as long as MacroIntel does not falsify character information or impersonate a GM or CCP employee. --------------------- Your sig is inappropriate. Please read the forum rules before reposting. -Tirg Sig jacked and nerfed in one day, just my luck.
Mazupty	Posted - 2007.11.20 22:49:00 - [35] Originally by: Snake Doctor Actually, I see many, many real players mining Ice. That's the good news. It is indeed nice to read. Sorry for the misconception, I haven't gone to an ice belt in over a year. It was quite bad then and I didn't see any reason for the situation to improve.
Devian 666 Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.20 22:52:00 - [36] Originally by: Paulo Damarr Originally by: Devian 666 You have confirmed my theory. You claim that MacroIntel have no authority to attack macroers. Eve is a pvp game and they can attack anyone that they believe, on reasonable grounds, to be a macroer. Myself and many of the pilots I fly with do not operate under such guidelines. We will gun down any pod pilot we see fit to attack. Stick that in your grief play pipe. So a Player is within his rights as a EVE player to conduct acts of harassment in game in an attempt to enforce CCPs EULA? If someone started a Corp "account sharing Intel" and flew around accusing people off sharing accounts with no proof and killed them and followed them around and posting accusations would this be considered acceptable? You don't get it. I don't try to enforce the EULA I just shoot down pilots. I like your idea for "account sharing intel" as it provides an excuse to shoot anyone. My previous corp Sectoid Technolgies was used to war dec arrogant carebears who ranted on the forums or who generally made idiots of themselves like Savvon or Mtber Trading's Zonda ***e. You seem to have an issue thinking that pvp in in pvp game is harrassment or grief play. If you have a problem with pvp existing in eve you can sign up for the Hello Kitty Beta. We almost won. [ 2007.11.17 08:26:19 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 150mm Railgun II places an excellent hit on Shrike [EVOL]<BOB>(Avatar), inflicting 41.4 damage.
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2007.11.20 23:06:00 - [37] Originally by: Devian 666 You don't get it. I don't try to enforce the EULA I just shoot down pilots. I like your idea for "account sharing intel" as it provides an excuse to shoot anyone. My previous corp Sectoid Technolgies was used to war dec arrogant carebears who ranted on the forums or who generally made idiots of themselves like Savvon or Mtber Trading's Zonda ***e. You seem to have an issue thinking that pvp in in pvp game is harrassment or grief play. If you have a problem with pvp existing in eve you can sign up for the Hello Kitty Beta. Your the one not getting it, All your doing now is chest thumping and saying "Me PvPer you carebear, you go to Hello kitty now!!" your posts are usually more intelligent than that. The issue is not PvP or the reasons for it the issue is about unfounded accusations vigilantism and people carrying out fumbling attempts to enforce the EULA when they have no rights to do so. I dont have a problem with PvP at all never have and never will, what I do have a problem with is how a group of players can claim themselves to be some sort of unofficial EULA police and make accusations and bullying and harassing players over those accusations. Cloaks!!
Snake Doctor MacroIntel United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2007.11.20 23:07:00 - [38] Originally by: Paulo Damarr Originally by: Snake Doctor As long as they didn't use cheats to identify such players, yes. While account sharing isn't the biggest item on the list, lots of farmers are guilty of it as well. You keep mentioning "what's acceptable" and likening it to some moral equivalent in real life, but EVE doesn't work that way. Ok dude its nothing personal I just think your out of order and carrying out a witch hunt and im sure in the witch finder generals time the people strapping old ladys to a burning stake thought themselves justified to. What your doing is vigilantism at best, Dress it all down and its simple you are accusing people of a bannable offense and then acting on those accusations. Its the GM teams role to punish people in breech of the EULA and not yours. Again, this is not some misdirected witch hunt, as you put it. It takes months to make an accusation. You're right. It's the GM's role to punish those in breach of Eula, not us. I don't think GM's do anything in the breech, but I'd love to see them stick a farmer into the breech of a 1400mm. It is vigilantism. It is. You know what? CCP loves vigilantes. It was and is advertised as a career path, and it's not against the rules. Please, if you're unwilling to see things from another point of view, stop dragging down a thread that was supposed to be aimed at the positives. I don't want to repost something that's been locked because it became quickly nonconstructive. Please stay objective instead of wildly throwing out "what is and is not appropriate" according to your personal beliefs or play style. Join Macrointel!
An Anarchyyt Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.11.20 23:08:00 - [39] Originally by: Paulo Damarr Originally by: Devian 666 You don't get it. I don't try to enforce the EULA I just shoot down pilots. I like your idea for "account sharing intel" as it provides an excuse to shoot anyone. My previous corp Sectoid Technolgies was used to war dec arrogant carebears who ranted on the forums or who generally made idiots of themselves like Savvon or Mtber Trading's Zonda *e. You seem to have an issue thinking that pvp in in pvp game is harrassment or grief play. If you have a problem with pvp existing in eve you can sign up for the Hello Kitty Beta. Your the one not getting it, All your doing now is chest thumping and saying "Me PvPer you carebear, you go to Hello kitty now!!" your posts are usually more intelligent than that. The issue is not PvP or the reasons for it the issue is about unfounded accusations vigilantism and people carrying out fumbling attempts to enforce the EULA when they have no rights to do so. I dont have a problem with PvP at all never have and never will, what I do have a problem with is how a group of players can claim themselves to be some sort of unofficial EULA police and make accusations and bullying and harassing players over those accusations. Does that mean you get to police the police? Or are the vigilante of the vigilantes? Originally by:** CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.20 23:12:00 - [40] Originally by: Paulo Damarr Ok dude its nothing personal I just think your out of order and carrying out a witch hunt and im sure in the witch finder generals time the people strapping old ladys to a burning stake thought themselves justified to. What your doing is vigilantism at best, Dress it all down and its simple you are accusing people of a bannable offense and then acting on those accusations. Its the GM teams role to punish people in breech of the EULA and not yours. Snake Doctor & co. are going after suspected macro users & farmers, and you say it's not their job. But who said it was your job to denounce people you perceive as causing harassment? Also, if you'd rather leave things to the GMs, consider this. Real farmers & macro users are highly unlikely to petition macrointel for harassment - even if they were successful, there's a good chance that they'd be banned as well on the strength of evidence collected by macrointel (especially contracts, which can easily be verified independently by CCP). A non-farmer/macro user, on the other hand, would probably petition and see justice done. I've heard of people using this vulnerability to their advantage by paying gullible farmers to join shell corps in 0.0 alliances. They then raise the corp tax to punitive levels and trap the farmers by repeatedly giving them roles My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2007.11.20 23:14:00 - [41] Originally by: Snake Doctor It is vigilantism. It is. You know what? CCP loves vigilantes. It was and is advertised as a career path, and it's not against the rules. Really? I missed the bit where it advertises EVE saying "Join the worlds largest single server and fastest growing community of Unofficial and illegitimate EULA police" Cloaks!!
Snake Doctor MacroIntel United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2007.11.20 23:20:00 - [42] Originally by: Paulo Damarr The issue is not PvP or the reasons for it the issue is about unfounded accusations vigilantism and people carrying out fumbling attempts to enforce the EULA when they have no rights to do so. This is not the issue and never has been. You've no grounds to claim that we make unfounded accusations. I don't recall ever xing you into a gang or including you in a petition. I would make my petitions and notes available, but the former is against TOS and the latter would expose certain tactics that the "bad guys" haven't identified yet. I'm really stuck between a rock and a hard place with this matter- I can't prove to you that we make unfounded claims, but you won't come with us to see for yourself. I don't think you want to believe that there is a months-long process involved in this. Much of my time is spent doing "boring administrative tasks" (as I said in another thread somewhere). These tasks include keeping up on intel and distilling the information I have. It's very time consuming and almost like a second job- but for some reason, I mostly enjoy it. Even if we were to simply start stealing from anyone, any time, that too would be within terms of service. You don't have to throw out your moral compass to play eve, but you should note that the ethical direction on said compass points a different way in New Eden. I'd suggest reading The Science of Good and Evil, (Michael Shermer) and The art of war (Sun Tzu and Machiavelli versions) for further insight. Join Macrointel!
Snake Doctor MacroIntel United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2007.11.20 23:32:00 - [43] Originally by: Paulo Damarr Really? I missed the bit where it advertises EVE saying "Join the worlds largest single server and fastest growing community of Unofficial and illegitimate EULA police" That's not in CCP's ad, it's in MacroIntel's. I was referring to the open ended game play eve provides. Also; I know I'm windy, but please read the entire response before posting. (only gold so most people notice this. I don't like breaking up responses with quotes) Quote: Its not my Job and If i started a Corporation and carried out a campaign of in game harassment and posting accusations I would expect to be dealt with myself. If you chose to do that, no one would petition you for it, because it's a valid play style. Please keep posts constructive in one way or another. Originally by: Paulo Damarr Join the worlds largest single server and fastest grow
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2007.11.20 23:34:00 - [44] Originally by: Snake Doctor This is not the issue and never has been. You've no grounds to claim that we make unfounded accusations. I would make my petitions and notes available, I can't prove to you that we make unfounded claims, but you won't come with us to see for yourself. I don't think you want to believe that there is a months-long process involved in this Until you can prove your claims they are unfounded and about evidence and "notes" I could sit and write a bunch of notes about almost anything and tout them as proof so your inability to produce them is no great loss. And finally your corp is only around a month old so how has this been a process of "months" you are claiming billions worth of damage 600 mill profits and you did this while gathering Intel in around 4 weeks in a corp with 7 members? Cloaks!!
Snake Doctor MacroIntel United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2007.11.20 23:46:00 - [45] Edited by: Snake Doctor on 20/11/2007 23:50:53 Originally by: Paulo Damarr Until you can prove your claims they are unfounded and about evidence and "notes" I could sit and write a bunch of notes about almost anything and tout them as proof so your inability to produce them is no great loss. And finally your corp is only around a month old so how has this been a process of "months" you are claiming billions worth of damage 600 mill profits and you did this while gathering Intel in around 4 weeks in a corp with 7 members? Don't back peddle I accused you of being a "Unoffical EULA police Vigilante" and you said CCP advertised it is a profession. Again, please keep posts constructive-- I no longer feel the need to prove anything to you; I've invited you along on an op and you didn't even respond. You're the one denying any proof being presented by turning a blind eye to it. You can't just say "I wasn't looking! Doesn't count!" MacroIntel is an organized effort that came about as a need to be in line with mechanics of warfare. While the corp has been active about a month and only has 7 members, macrointel (the channel and "support group" if you will) has been around a long time. I've been hunting macros a lot longer than 1 month and there are many, many more than 7 people who help. I'm sure anyone in macrointel at any time would clear that up. While your wording isn't what CCP says exactly, they've always advertised that vigilantism is a valid play style. Originally by:* Paulo Damarr Join the worlds largest single server and fastest growing community of Unofficial and illegitimate EULA police! Join Macrointel!
Devian 666 Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.20 23:47:00 - [46] Originally by: Paulo Damarr Your the one not getting it, All your doing now is chest thumping and saying "Me PvPer you carebear, you go to Hello kitty now!!" your posts are usually more intelligent than that. The issue is not PvP or the reasons for it the issue is about unfounded accusations vigilantism and people carrying out fumbling attempts to enforce the EULA when they have no rights to do so. I dont have a problem with PvP at all never have and never will, what I do have a problem with is how a group of players can claim themselves to be some sort of unofficial EULA police and make accusations and bullying and harassing players over those accusations. Player enforcement is encouraged. Look at the outlaw system players are encouraged to attack flashy red pilots to help enforce the in-game "law". If these suspected macroers feel like they have been bullied or harassed then they can put in a petition. If MacroIntel are killing off so many genuine players then surely they would have been petitioned successfully for their activities. If you have such a big compliant about MacroIntel then start Anti-MacroIntel and enforce it yourself as moaning on the forums won't get you anywhere. Hello Kitty Online beta test is still an option for you. We almost won. [ 2007.11.17 08:26:19 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 150mm Railgun II places an excellent hit on Shrike [EVOL]<BOB>(Avatar), inflicting 41.4 damage.
Rooker Lysian Enterprises	Posted - 2007.11.21 00:36:00 - [47] Looks like we've found one of karlemagne's alts... Who cares about the reasoning behind it? CCP has designed this game so that it encourages and aids those want to cause grief to others, then conveniently redefines the word "grief" to suit their license. If they didn't want mining barges to explode in suicide attacks, weapons would not fire in high sec. If they didn't want salvage to be stolen out from under a mission runner's nose, probes wouldn't work at all for objects in deadspace. If they didn't want ore to be stolen, no one but the owner would be able to remove something from a jetcan. This sort of economic disruption is exactly what they intended for people to do. We just choose not to direct our attention to people who seem to be following the rules. Somebody with a name instead of a random string of keyboard mashing, in a real corporation and who have actually named their ship are left alone. gagkkeasd, in School of Applied Knowledge, flying gagkkeasd's Raven, on the other hand... Well, he's gonna have a bad day. -- Let Us Avoid Systems Via Autopilot
JForce The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.11.21 01:00:00 - [48] You guys do a great job, and I'm sure for your pilots the satisfaction of a job well done is a wonderful feeling. You have managed to find a reason to PvP without the issue of engaging in POS-wars, something many players dream of. I salute you and look forward to more reports of your successes
WCPistolPete Gallente MacroIntel United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2007.11.21 01:06:00 - [49] Originally by: Rooker gagkkeasd, in School of Applied Knowledge, flying gagkkeasd's Raven, on the other hand... Well, he's gonna have a bad day. He's not the only one, though. /me adds Paulo Damarr to his -10 list WCPistolPete
VicturusTeSaluto	Posted - 2007.11.21 01:06:00 - [50] Edited by: VicturusTeSaluto on 21/11/2007 01:06:41 Originally by: Paulo Damarr Edited by: Paulo Damarr on 20/11/2007 21:19:06 Personally I think you should be investigated by the GMs for harassment as your motives for "griefing" are not for game play reasons and your accusations of "macroing" are not proven, Your making public allegations claiming people are in breech of the EVE EULA and CCPs terms of service with no proof and by repeatedly killing and stealing from players outside of the bounds of reasonable game play as part of your "crusade" is definitely harassment definable as greif play. God damn! You are truly as dumb as a brick. Chinese macro'ers are unmistakable. Let's see, they use nonsense names, they are on 23/7, 7 days a week and oh... THEY SPEAK CHINESE! How dumb can one be? Also, how much isk have you brought from the Chinese this week? Hope it is enough to compensate.
Shalia Ripper Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.11.21 01:09:00 - [51] Paulo kills me. In EVE, it is acceptable to camp a gate and kill everything that goes through it. It is acceptable for pirate gangs in low sec to attack mission runners. It is acceptable for group A to attack group B for any reason at all. But when a corp choses macroers as a target it is griefing? What a joke. I approve of what Macrointel is doing and support them fully. Hey Snake, looking for recruits?
Snake Doctor MacroIntel United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2007.11.21 01:13:00 - [52] Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto Edited by: VicturusTeSaluto on 21/11/2007 01:06:41 Originally by: Paulo Damarr Edited by: Paulo Damarr on 20/11/2007 21:19:06 Personally I think you should be investigated by the GMs for harassment as your motives for "griefing" are not for game play reasons and your accusations of "macroing" are not proven, Your making public allegations claiming people are in breech of the EVE EULA and CCPs terms of service with no proof and by repeatedly killing and stealing from players outside of the bounds of reasonable game play as part of your "crusade" is definitely harassment definable as greif play. God damn! You are truly as dumb as a brick. Chinese macro'ers are unmistakable. Let's see, they use nonsense names, they are on 23/7, 7 days a week and oh... THEY SPEAK CHINESE! How dumb can one be? Also, how much isk have you brought from the Chinese this week? Hope it is enough to compensate. Vic, while I appreciate your support and understanding, please refrain from attacking Paulo. Even if he may be wrong in his thought process, it's unfair to call him dumb Please be constructive Originally by: Paulo Damarr Join the worlds largest single server and fastest growing community of Unofficial and illegitimate EULA police! Join Macrointel!
Snake Doctor MacroIntel United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2007.11.21 01:14:00 - [53] Originally by: Shalia Ripper Hey Snake, looking for recruits? Always- Office at the Wiyrkomi Station in Oichiya. It's a busy place for farmers. Originally by: Paulo Damarr Join the worlds largest single server and fastest growing community of Unofficial and illegitimate EULA police! Join Macrointel!
Lithalnas Amarr Headcrabs	Posted - 2007.11.21 01:14:00 - [54] Paulo Damarr: POST WITH YOUR MAIN, if you feel so strongly about it, come out and say it with your MAIN. (COAD rules for this thread plz) Well that made me feel better, as a resurrected macro intel member all i have to say is that usually if we find a Raven with a corp (not one named ljyffj) we usually leave it alone, If we ask something in local and get a response we usually leave them alone (F%^* YOU is not a valid response). If they fly the farmer quartet 2 ravens, domi with remote reps and Armageddon to take agro or salvage. And our efforts are effecting isk sales, with such public threads like this one, we can preventing people from crossing the line and purchaseing isk. IF you really REALLY have a problem with what we are doing please, wardec me. -Lithalnas - Head Headcrab - [CRABS] ------------- fixed for greater eve content
Shalia Ripper Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.11.21 01:17:00 - [55] Originally by: Snake Doctor Originally by: Shalia Ripper Hey Snake, looking for recruits? Always- Office at the Wiyrkomi Station in Oichiya. It's a busy place for farmers. After my new build is done (UPGRADE TIME!), I will look you folks up.
VicturusTeSaluto	Posted - 2007.11.21 01:19:00 - [56] Edited by: VicturusTeSaluto on 21/11/2007 01:19:43 Originally by: Snake Doctor Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto Edited by: VicturusTeSaluto on 21/11/2007 01:06:41 Originally by: Paulo Damarr Edited by: Paulo Damarr on 20/11/2007 21:19:06 Personally I think you should be investigated by the GMs for harassment as your motives for "griefing" are not for game play reasons and your accusations of "macroing" are not proven, Your making public allegations claiming people are in breech of the EVE EULA and CCPs terms of service with no proof and by repeatedly killing and stealing from players outside of the bounds of reasonable game play as part of your "crusade" is definitely harassment definable as greif play. God damn! You are truly as dumb as a brick. Chinese macro'ers are unmistakable. Let's see, they use nonsense names, they are on 23/7, 7 days a week and oh... THEY SPEAK CHINESE! How dumb can one be? Also, how much isk have you brought from the Chinese this week? Hope it is enough to compensate. Vic, while I appreciate your support and understanding, please refrain from attacking Paulo. Even if he may be wrong in his thought process, it's unfair to call him dumb Please be constructive Constructive? I just like 'splosions. That includes macros(must have killed about two dozen chinese raven/drake/scorp in the past 2 weeks), but I am in no way affiliated with macrointel.
Snake Doctor MacroIntel United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2007.11.21 01:21:00 - [57] Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto Constructive? I just like 'splosions. That includes macros(must have killed about two dozen chinese raven/drake/scorp in the past 2 weeks), but I am in no way affiliated with macrointel. It's cool man- I just worry that it's a pretty hot topic and is already close-to-locked. Anyway- Explosions are cool, and doubly awesome if it causes an isk farmer an hour of his time! Originally by: Paulo Damarr Join the worlds largest single server and fastest growing community of Unofficial and illegitimate EULA police! Join Macrointel!
Tenebrion Darkness Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.11.21 01:26:00 - [58] I'm just a little confused. Everyone seems to be using farmer/macro as if they're the same thing, which they aren't.... and only one of them is against the EULA. Now MI has stated they have some roundabout means of tracking isk flow from such chars, which could point to them breaking the EULA in other ways. In any event, keep up the good work, and hope no one undeserving of your "company" gets it.
VicturusTeSaluto	Posted - 2007.11.21 01:30:00 - [59] Originally by: Tenebrion Darkness I'm just a little confused. Everyone seems to be using farmer/macro as if they're the same thing, which they aren't.... and only one of them is against the EULA. Now MI has stated they have some roundabout means of tracking isk flow from such chars, which could point to them breaking the EULA in other ways. In any event, keep up the good work, and hope no one undeserving of your "company" gets it. Not that is matters since they are CCP's most loyal and valued customers that will continue playing long after we're all gone... But, farmers are going against the EULA whether they use macro programs or not. They are all account sharing. No single person could be playing EVE 23/7 for years on end. Not to mention that they are all producing and selling dirty isk.
Silent Killa Caldari Macrominer Waste Management United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2007.11.21 01:32:00 - [60] I stopped petitioning them, I enjoy their loot far too much /me hides http://macrointel.kicks-ass.org/

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