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Snake Doctor MacroIntel United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2007.11.20 19:14:00 - [1] It's been a few weeks now since a more unified effort was created by UCAM members and community figures and some numbers are coming in. Not exactly complete picture, but an idea of what's been happening. I don't have everyone elses, so this is just what I'm seeing. They are as honest as I can represent them- I'm afraid I didn't log it in a fashion that I thought would be represented in any way: Number of farmers and or macro users added to the list: 40-50 Amount of ISK stolen from farmers in terms of loot, salvage, invaded missions: 1.3 billion+ Amount of ISK in damages incurred: Can't determine an exact number. It's high for hisec. We've taken some navy issue ships out recently. Those are what, 600-800 mil a piece? Add in the countless numbers of ravens, mackinaws, and popped haulers, and you've got yourself upwards of 6 billion +. Personal gains: Around 600 million. Personal losses: 1 Raven, 1 Abaddon(rigged), 1 uninsured drake (wtfbbq), 1 Megathron, 2 Hawks, various frigates, haulers and shuttles. Number of probes burned off: ~560 fathom, ~60 Ferret, 200 or so Snoop, and countless racials. Number of missions invaded: Didn't count, but it's usually 3 a night or so. Chinese learned: Lot's of swearing. Spanish taught to Chinese isk farmers: Rough translations of what they are saying to me. I'll keep better track of stats and put them up on the forum in like a month or so So that's what we do--- imagine if we had 100 more people.... Join Macrointel!
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.20 19:17:00 - [2] Originally by: Snake Doctor It's been a few weeks now since a more unified effort was created by UCAM members and community figures and some numbers are coming in. Not exactly complete picture, but an idea of what's been happening. I don't have everyone elses, so this is just what I'm seeing. They are as honest as I can represent them- I'm afraid I didn't log it in a fashion that I thought would be represented in any way: Number of farmers and or macro users added to the list: 40-50 Amount of ISK stolen from farmers in terms of loot, salvage, invaded missions: 1.3 billion+ Amount of ISK in damages incurred: Can't determine an exact number. It's high for hisec. We've taken some navy issue ships out recently. Those are what, 600-800 mil a piece? Add in the countless numbers of ravens, mackinaws, and popped haulers, and you've got yourself upwards of 6 billion +. Personal gains: Around 600 million. Personal losses: 1 Raven, 1 Abaddon(rigged), 1 uninsured drake (wtfbbq), 1 Megathron, 2 Hawks, various frigates, haulers and shuttles. Number of probes burned off: ~560 fathom, ~60 Ferret, 200 or so Snoop, and countless racials. Number of missions invaded: Didn't count, but it's usually 3 a night or so. Chinese learned: Lot's of swearing. Spanish taught to Chinese isk farmers: Rough translations of what they are saying to me. I'll keep better track of stats and put them up on the forum in like a month or so So that's what we do--- imagine if we had 100 more people.... Nice. Keep up the good work man. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Terail Zoqial	Posted - 2007.11.20 19:37:00 - [3] Nice to hear someones doing the good work. Good job
Ferreus Malukar The X-Trading Company	Posted - 2007.11.20 19:43:00 - [4] I like you. --- This is my main. There are many like it but this one is mine. I must master it as I must master my life. Without me, my main is useless. Without my main I am useless.
Snake Doctor MacroIntel United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2007.11.20 20:34:00 - [5] /me waits for UCAM guys to update this with their stats. Silent Killa and WCPistolPete kill a lot more farmers than I do... Join Macrointel!
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2007.11.20 20:39:00 - [6] Now we know the reason behind the increases in mission salvage theft whines.... Cloaks!!
Snake Doctor MacroIntel United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2007.11.20 21:01:00 - [7] Originally by: Paulo Damarr Now we know the reason behind the increases in mission salvage theft whines.... Oh, you bet your ass. We don't steal from legits though. Not unless we're bored. Join Macrointel!
Shakuul Caldari O RLY corp YTMND.	Posted - 2007.11.20 21:08:00 - [8] I'm glad you derive pleasure from making it more difficult for people to do their jobs and feed their families.
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2007.11.20 21:15:00 - [9] Edited by: Paulo Damarr on 20/11/2007 21:19:06 Personally I think you should be investigated by the GMs for harassment as your motives for "griefing" are not for game play reasons and your accusations of "macroing" are not proven, Your making public allegations claiming people are in breech of the EVE EULA and CCPs terms of service with no proof and by repeatedly killing and stealing from players outside of the bounds of reasonable game play as part of your "crusade" is definitely harassment definable as greif play. Cloaks!!
Shadow Joy	Posted - 2007.11.20 21:18:00 - [10] Originally by: Shakuul I'm glad you derive pleasure from making it more difficult for people to do their jobs and feed their families. Do you say the same thing to police officers?
Snake Doctor MacroIntel United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2007.11.20 21:19:00 - [11] Originally by: Shakuul I'm glad you derive pleasure from making it more difficult for people to do their jobs and feed their families. I surely do. Join Macrointel!
Snake Doctor MacroIntel United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2007.11.20 21:24:00 - [12] Originally by: Paulo Damarr Edited by: Paulo Damarr on 20/11/2007 21:19:06 Personally I think you should be investigated by the GMs for harassment as your motives for "griefing" are not for game play reasons and your accusations of "macroing" are not proven, Your making public allegations claiming people are in breech of the EVE EULA and CCPs terms of service with no proof and by repeatedly killing and stealing from players outside of the bounds of reasonable game play as part of your "crusade" is definitely harassment definable as greif play. Investigate away. We're doing nothing against EULA or TOS. As for verifying someone's a macro or farmer, we have our methods. Nothing in a videogame can be proven, but if there's any doubt, we simply move on to another target. There are certain cues that actual players pick up on that farmers do not. If I flip a can and the owner complains, I either leave or simply don't shoot if they take it back. I invite anyone to come fly with me and my group if they think we're being unfair, and petition us if they think we're breaking any of the rules. Join Macrointel!
Devian 666 Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.20 21:25:00 - [13] Originally by: Paulo Damarr Edited by: Paulo Damarr on 20/11/2007 21:19:06 Personally I think you should be investigated by the GMs for harassment as your motives for "griefing" are not for game play reasons and your accusations of "macroing" are not proven, Your making public allegations claiming people are in breech of the EVE EULA and CCPs terms of service with no proof and by repeatedly killing and stealing from players outside of the bounds of reasonable game play as part of your "crusade" is definitely harassment definable as greif play. I think we have identified a Macro Troll. Or someone that shouldn't be playing a pvp game. We almost won. [ 2007.11.17 08:26:19 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 150mm Railgun II places an excellent hit on Shrike [EVOL]<BOB>(Avatar), inflicting 41.4 damage.
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2007.11.20 21:34:00 - [14] Originally by: Devian 666 Originally by: Paulo Damarr Edited by: Paulo Damarr on 20/11/2007 21:19:06 Personally I think you should be investigated by the GMs for harassment as your motives for "griefing" are not for game play reasons and your accusations of "macroing" are not proven, Your making public allegations claiming people are in breech of the EVE EULA and CCPs terms of service with no proof and by repeatedly killing and stealing from players outside of the bounds of reasonable game play as part of your "crusade" is definitely harassment definable as greif play. I think we have identified a Macro Troll. Or someone that shouldn't be playing a pvp game. Its nothing to do with pvp and as for me being a macro troll well lol, This guy is making unsubstantiated accusations about what basically amounts to cheating. Using macros is a bannable offense and is a serious breech of CCPs terms of service and is purely a matter for CCPs GMs to deal with. This "Macro Intel" are accusing people with no proof and then following them around disrupting their game play by invading their missions or attempting to flag them by flipping cans. That's harassment, not pvp Cloaks!!
Snake Doctor MacroIntel United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2007.11.20 21:45:00 - [15] Originally by: Paulo Damarr Its nothing to do with pvp and as for me being a macro troll well lol, This guy is making unsubstantiated accusations about what basically amounts to cheating. Using macros is a bannable offense and is a serious breech of CCPs terms of service and is purely a matter for CCPs GMs to deal with. This "Macro Intel" are accusing people with no proof and then following them around disrupting their game play by invading their missions or attempting to flag them by flipping cans. That's harassment, not pvp Please join us on an op. "No proof" is a rather uninformed claim. We have lists of people we watch for months before we make any sort of action. Besides-- The only thing it would come close to is hi sec piracy. I invite anyone who would like to come with us to see for themselves or join us ingame in the macrointel channel. Join Macrointel!
Iota Belisarius Ion Corp. Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.20 21:46:00 - [16] Originally by: Paulo Damarr ...disrupting their game play by invading their missions or attempting to flag them by flipping cans. Both of which are completely legitimate tactics. However lame you may think they are, it's not illegal. --------------------- Your sig is inappropriate. Please read the forum rules before reposting. -Tirg Sig jacked and nerfed in one day, just my luck.
Snake Doctor MacroIntel United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2007.11.20 21:50:00 - [17] Originally by: Paulo Damarr Harassment is a breech of the EULA and TOS, And yes accusing someone of cheating and the following them around causing them problems is harassment. Grief play involves stalking one person repeatedly until they quit the game- While we all wish we were that good at stalking farmers, they just don't quit. The only effective way is to interrupt random groups and surprise them. This amounts to nothing more than hisec piracy, which, as defined by TOS, it totally legal. We have very strict policies about targeting legitimate players and methods of identifying them. Usually, all you have to do is open a chat with someone and ask them. If someone says "no. I'm not a farmer, please don't steal my ****" I'm not going to sit there and tell him he's lying and continue to mess with him. None of the UCAM people are allowed to do that. Again. I'd invite you to come along before throwing out accusations of grief play. Join Macrointel!
Chenoa Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.20 21:51:00 - [18] Originally by: Paulo Damarr This "Macro Intel" are accusing people with no proof and then following them around disrupting their game play by invading their missions or attempting to flag them by flipping cans. That's harassment, not pvp No, it's piracy or griefing, both of which are within the rules. Welcome to EVE.
Snake Doctor MacroIntel United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2007.11.20 21:54:00 - [19] Edited by: Snake Doctor on 20/11/2007 21:55:45 Originally by: Paulo Damarr This "Macro Intel" For reference: We wish the proper form of "Macro Intel" as a corporate entity to be "MacroIntel", "MI", or "Those bastards" (even if Goons have it trademarked) . The public chat channel that preceded the corporation is simply "macrointel" and the group as a whole would be "macrointel guys", "UCAM" or "those bastards". Thank you, Snake Dizzle Join Macrointel!
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2007.11.20 21:56:00 - [20] Originally by: Iota Belisarius Originally by: Paulo Damarr ...disrupting their game play by invading their missions or attempting to flag them by flipping cans. Both of which are completely legitimate tactics. However lame you may think they are, it's not illegal. Thats what the Racketeers do and they do it as part of EVEs gameplay, they steal and kill players and act as High sec street thugs. Claiming people are breaking EVEs EULA and accusing them of cheating whilst carrying out tactics like this to disrupt their gameplay is not legitimate. Originally by: Snake Doctor Besides-- The only thing it would come close to is hi sec piracy. I invite anyone who would like to come with us to see for themselves or join us ingame in the macrointel channel. This is not piracy, piracy is a valid game style where killing and stealing is part of the game. Your making serious allegations and harassing them on that basis. Cloaks!!
Golan Cinquanteneuf	Posted - 2007.11.20 21:59:00 - [21] Originally by: Shakuul I'm glad you derive pleasure from making it more difficult for people to do their jobs and feed their families. Chinese ISK farmers are not an endangered species. Although they should be.
Icarus Starkiller Minmatar	Posted - 2007.11.20 22:01:00 - [22] I fully endorse, condone, and would sponsor these guys if I had an ISK to my name. Keep it up. Keep 'em broke. And guess what, folks, these people could 'grief' (as you say) the same pilot(s) for months on end and you want to know what? THEY WON'T LEAVE! Why won't they? They're macros. They have no sense of loss or pain or anger at being 'griefed' (sic). The primary targets for MI are just bait, left out there purposefully to keep MI busy while their real macro activities take place in some of the biggest game alliances in 0.0 Or single-person/NPC corp twinks in 0.0 cloak-BS. I vote: Remove NPC war immunity. That'll fix the game in about 1 month. - Life is pain...anyone who says differently is selling something.
Devian 666 Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.20 22:08:00 - [23] Originally by: Paulo Damarr Stuff. Ignorance is bliss. Funnily enough I go to systems with hundreds of obvious macroers. If the GMs were taking significant action against macros there would be hundreds of macro accounts shut down with great ease. However, I believe GM efforts are dealing with isk sellers and buyers rather than struggling to kill off isk at the source. Ranting some rubbish at us without investigating the problem yourself is just chosing to remain ignorant. If you've put in a petition in relation to this thread then you need a good slapping. We almost won. [ 2007.11.17 08:26:19 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 150mm Railgun II places an excellent hit on Shrike [EVOL]<BOB>(Avatar), inflicting 41.4 damage.
Snake Doctor MacroIntel United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2007.11.20 22:11:00 - [24] Originally by: Icarus Starkiller I vote: Remove NPC war immunity. That'll fix the game in about 1 month. Some of us really like that suggestion, but for the new player experience, it would ruin the game. It opens up some serious holes in the new player experience, as well as actual grief play. Actual grief play is picking on someone. We're not picking on anyone-- Our style of play is to disrupt the flow of isk into the wallets of characters owned by people who share accounts for the purpose of selling isk for real world currency. Please understand that we aren't "MacroGriefers," we're "MacroIntel." We collect intel before we make action and petition suspected farmers. Please tell me what is wrong with this picture: Look Also try to find the article written by Voogru, as we subscribe to many of his philosophies and the tactics he's devised. Join Macrointel!
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2007.11.20 22:18:00 - [25] Originally by: Devian 666 Originally by: Paulo Damarr Stuff. Ignorance is bliss. Funnily enough I go to systems with hundreds of obvious macroers. If the GMs were taking significant action against macros there would be hundreds of macro accounts shut down with great ease. However, I believe GM efforts are dealing with isk sellers and buyers rather than struggling to kill off isk at the source. Ranting some rubbish at us without investigating the problem yourself is just chosing to remain ignorant. If you've put in a petition in relation to this thread then you need a good slapping. Im not ignorant to the fact that Macro users and ISK farmers are a problem and I agree that it needs dealing with but look at at it this way if CCP or any other MMO provider started a campaign of systematic cycle of unfounded and unproven accusations and acted against large amounts of legitimate players there would be uproar and a PR disaster. MacroIntel are conducting exactly such a campaign without any authority to do, They have no proof that someone is in breech of CCPs EULA but they act on these accusations regardless and bully and harass the players that they deem to be "macroers" Cloaks!!
Devian 666 Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.20 22:19:00 - [26] Originally by: Snake Doctor Please tell me what is wrong with this picture: Look It's a bargain I tell you. On a more serious note their has been major inflation in rockets lately. We almost won. [ 2007.11.17 08:26:19 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 150mm Railgun II places an excellent hit on Shrike [EVOL]<BOB>(Avatar), inflicting 41.4 damage.
Earthan Gallente The Absolutely Amazing Fire Eaters Breidablik	Posted - 2007.11.20 22:21:00 - [27] Originally by: Shakuul I'm glad you derive pleasure from making it more difficult for people to do their jobs and feed their families. Sorry man but for me its liek an argument a policeman shouldnt catch a thief cause the thief got a fammily to feed. Yes its less serious but it still ruins the game for all of us. Good job, tough personally i woudl never spend my little tiem for eve on this , i admire:) - Killing Eve bullies all over the galaxy hunting stories
Devian 666 Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.20 22:24:00 - [28] Originally by: Paulo Damarr Originally by: Devian 666 Originally by: Paulo Damarr Stuff. Ignorance is bliss. Funnily enough I go to systems with hundreds of obvious macroers. If the GMs were taking significant action against macros there would be hundreds of macro accounts shut down with great ease. However, I believe GM efforts are dealing with isk sellers and buyers rather than struggling to kill off isk at the source. Ranting some rubbish at us without investigating the problem yourself is just chosing to remain ignorant. If you've put in a petition in relation to this thread then you need a good slapping. Im not ignorant to the fact that Macro users and ISK farmers are a problem and I agree that it needs dealing with but look at at it this way if CCP or any other MMO provider started a campaign of systematic cycle of unfounded and unproven accusations and acted against large amounts of legitimate players there would be uproar and a PR disaster. MacroIntel are conducting exactly such a campaign without any authority to do, They have no proof that someone is in breech of CCPs EULA but they act on these accusations regardless and bully and harass the players that they deem to be "macroers" You have confirmed my theory. You claim that MacroIntel have no authority to attack macroers. Eve is a pvp game and they can attack anyone that they believe, on reasonable grounds, to be a macroer. Myself and many of the pilots I fly with do not operate under such guidelines. We will gun down any pod pilot we see fit to attack. Stick that in your grief play pipe. We almost won. [ 2007.11.17 08:26:19 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 150mm Railgun II places an excellent hit on Shrike [EVOL]<BOB>(Avatar), inflicting 41.4 damage.
Snake Doctor MacroIntel United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2007.11.20 22:24:00 - [29] Edited by: Snake Doctor on 20/11/2007 22:25:41 Originally by: Paulo Damarr ...PR disaster. MacroIntel are conducting exactly such a campaign without any authority to do, They have no proof that someone is in breech of CCPs EULA but they act on these accusations regardless and bully and harass the players that they deem to be "macroers" 1. Not really. It's a game. No one takes it that seriously after a week or so. 2. This point is already moot - I've given you the tools you need to see for yourself. I've invited you 3 or 4, maybe 5 times to come on an op and or sit in the channel. You just keep making the accusation even after I've given you an alternative. This simply says you're not willing to listen to another point of view. I could very well, at this point, make the accusation that you're trolling/trying to start a flame war, but you won't get one out of me. Again, we know how you feel- I invite you or anyone else to see me ingame, join an op, join the macrointel channel, the kill macros mailing list, check out the macrointel killboards, UCAM killboards, watch Silent Killa's videos, or anything else we can offer you to change your mind. This isn't closed source. It's not a secret of any kind. Please remember instead that we're here to demonstrate that the players won't accept non-players farming our game. If they were to all leave tomorrow, I'd simply find something else to do. Edit: Cleaned a quote tag. Join Macrointel!
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2007.11.20 22:31:00 - [30] Originally by: Devian 666 You have confirmed my theory. You claim that MacroIntel have no authority to attack macroers. Eve is a pvp game and they can attack anyone that they believe, on reasonable grounds, to be a macroer. Myself and many of the pilots I fly with do not operate under such guidelines. We will gun down any pod pilot we see fit to attack. Stick that in your grief play pipe. So a Player is within his rights as a EVE player to conduct acts of harassment in game in an attempt to enforce CCPs EULA? If someone started a Corp "account sharing Intel" and flew around accusing people off sharing accounts with no proof and killed them and followed them around and posting accusations would this be considered acceptable? Cloaks!!

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