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Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.23 05:40:00 - [31] Originally by: DHB WildCat I see This game turning into who can field the most logistic ships, nano hacs, and rooks as the power gangs of eve. And turning away from who can field the most damp/cloak snipers with cloaked interdictors? Yep. You're probably right.
Helen Hunts Gallente Red Dragon Mining inc	Posted - 2007.11.23 05:56:00 - [32] My first experience in PvP was with a loot thief who was only 12 or so hours old. I had a few weeks in and a nice new destroyer that I was getting to know and love. (I was new ) He got to the wreck first and went flashy red, so I proceeded to roast his hide.....and had only the first volley do any damage. He trained for combat, NOS and ECM right off the bat and had me scrambled, NOSsed to nothing and unable to hit him no matter what I did. No cap, no guns, no escape. I've since learned much more about PvP.... I try not to make the same mistakes twice. Tactics and strategy is better than raw SP, ships and fittings combined. _______________________________ Mine da rocks, make more ships. Pop da rats, make more rigs. Sell da gear, make more money. Any Questions?
Argaven Steelbane	Posted - 2007.11.23 06:16:00 - [33] someone fill me in here, what are these "Scripts" you're all talking about?
Argaven Steelbane	Posted - 2007.11.23 06:18:00 - [34] Edited by: Argaven Steelbane on 23/11/2007 06:18:32
Major Stallion Four Rings Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.23 06:33:00 - [35] Originally by: DHB WildCat I see This game turning into who can field the most...and rooks because heaven forbid caldari have a ship thats good in pvp, right? Of all people, youd be the last id suspect a whine from. ________________________________ Originally by: CCP Nozh As soon as people start comparing EVE to real life or battlestar galactica I stop reading.
Krazy Bitsch	Posted - 2007.11.23 06:35:00 - [36] Originally by: Metal Dude Wow, what can I say. I agree with BE. Older players get no love from CCP at all. and this is different from any other MMORPG, how??? rofl.
J Valkor Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.11.23 08:53:00 - [37] Yep. Because if two groups of players with the same ships and same tactical ability faught each other, but one group had higher SP higher specialized characters, they wouldn't easily win. Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Dracorimus Caldari 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.11.23 09:11:00 - [38] But then again, us 'vets' have been training the "skills" for over 3 years now, to allow for us to for instance 1 volley a newer player, and rightly so, after having trained said skill for much much longer....We should have every possibility of doing so in this case... ...Therefore.....for some 2 month old player to effectively screw me over totally with a frigate is most off putting, almost insulting considering the amount of time, read: "REAL MAN HOURS", I put into training for <insert ship/mod name here> in this game. I wish back when I started I had 805,000 SP... 8000 SP starting chars FTW ! -
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2007.11.23 09:11:00 - [39] Quote: Should a character made in 2007, be able to beat a character made in 2003? If yes then fine. Second question. Should the better tactician (age irrelivent) be able to win a fight? If yes, then sorry but with script tactics have left the window 0/ These points seem mutually contradictory. You've already said that your answer to the second question is "No". EVE RELATED CONTENT
Peanut Swsh Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.23 09:30:00 - [40] If you have more skill points you are still going to have an advantage over a player with less skillpoints, scripts no scripts, whatever. So whats the whine again? Anything that closes the gap between high sp players and low sp players is a good thing in my opinion e.g. the new ew frigates. Eve should be more about who has better tactics and teamwork, rather then who has been playing the game for longer. But end of the day the blob will probably win, but then again, thats just anothe part of the game. If you can get more people to follow your cause and fight for you then more power to you.
Jallem Sims Minmatar Exploring Blind	Posted - 2007.11.23 09:36:00 - [41] first... "luke, feel the force" yeah, something tells me that you are loosing more these days?? and, it has to be because of all the nerf to make noobs in anyway aprt of this game like you clearly are. But please god father, i promise to trade all my loot to you for your so holy protection! Your basically saying that your skills rock and therefore piloting skill and knowledge on how to set up to tackle a solopwnmobile and kick your 'i am older than you' ass is not on...... but then, if you really are a good pilot that dosen't rely on you 40mil (welldone i admire you) skills you'd be like this guy Originally by: Ugluuk 1 vs 1 empty system Megathron vs Hyperion Alt account in next system sees the Sacriledge,Hurricane,Stabber,Omen,Crow,Crow,Manticore,Merlin and rifter that waits for a go signal..No jamming ships..Ok cool lets go.. I warp to him..Guns online and drones ready.. Not even bothering to say go and opening fire.. 9 guys arrive shortly after as expected..And before i could say i expected it: "We are goons, we cant help it" shows up in local.. Result: 8 dead Goons Hyperion,Hurricane,Stabber,Thorax,Omen,Crow,Merlin Rifter Thanx for the loot,fraps,fight and better luck next time.. Linkage the will always be better pilots than you, no matter what age you are! BTW, i am just about to hit my first year.... i play support to the battle ships... and... this game is about multi player.... you can be a loner, you just got to be better at it now good luck... lots of changes makes this game always different and interesting.
Ash Solar	Posted - 2007.11.23 09:42:00 - [42] what really hurts are the racial weapon specialisation changes...oh wait wrong game.
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Fnck the blob.	Posted - 2007.11.23 09:53:00 - [43] I'm coming up on 20mil sp and tbh im sick of seeing t2 stuff getting "balanced" or lowered toward t1 crap that anyone can use. Everything i've specialized in is getting a bit of a nerfing, the t3 bc's are a start, there was a big gap between battlecruiser and having enough SP to fly a battleship properly, not so much now. I beat older players regularly, once you specialize it doesnt really matter how much they've got. I'm happy with them having an advantage... it's what i work towards myself. I think this is going the wrong way entirely. I can understand CCPs masterplan but EVERY. SINGLE. CHANGE. in this game since i started benefits and encourages MOAR BLOB HP boost for a start... ick... Hopefully once they're done screwing with eve they will just remove local and pos's and fix everything in 2 clicks
Hungo Minmatar Unholy Foundation Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.11.23 10:05:00 - [44] You should read the EVE V WOW thread. And then let me ask you a question Mr Attention seeking DHB Why should you, a mere 40mil pilot be invincible to younger players? Hell im a 65mil sp player and i certainly don't care who im killed by Ego on shelf please
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.23 10:06:00 - [45] Sensor Boosters don't need a tweak it needs to be split into two modules, one for speed and one for range, simple as that. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Argaven Steelbane	Posted - 2007.11.23 10:07:00 - [46] As a 5 day old player, with less than 1mil SP... I don't know how to respond to this thread, it's way over my head, but from the comments it seems that it'll become easier for me a newb to kill all the really experienced guys if I play my cards right, which sounds great to me. But I'm a little newb, so what do I know?
Zhaine B e l l u m	Posted - 2007.11.23 10:18:00 - [47] I can't tell if you're joking. Your post is totally ridiculous and makes sweeping and frankly ******** generalizations, but for all that you do seem be serious.
Laechyd Eldgorn Caldari Karjala Inc. Onnenpyora	Posted - 2007.11.23 10:57:00 - [48] Well setup battleship killing few cruisers. Ok. 50mil sp character killing few cruisers just because he has 50mil sp in trivial skills. Not ok. :D
Cailais Amarr W A R	Posted - 2007.11.23 11:02:00 - [49] Originally by: DHB WildCat I apologise for the confusion, let me try to clear things up. Younger players in smaller ships should die to an older player in a larger ship, right? . wrong C. Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Dehumanisation - griefers are cool and if you are not a griefer, you do not belong here.
Zinras	Posted - 2007.11.23 11:14:00 - [50] Can I have your stuff? I thought people realised that skills only train to level 5 in EVE. Seriously, it all depends on how you and they have spread your SP.. It doesn't take 40m SP to fly a Raven like an expert and neither does it to fly a Cruiser like one, skill wise. So what if you can fly a titan or use all the drones in the universe, if it doesn't matter for that specific fight? Out of the 40m SP you have, how many are specialized in the exact setup you were flying at that time? Propulsion Jamming V won't do much good if you don't actually web people, for example, so regarding that exact fight, those SP would be wasted. They might have decided go for excellent skills regarding cruisers and would then obviously be able to blow you out of the sky. EVE should be about being able to specialize and use the right tactics. I'm pretty sure that you could own each of them solo, which is where your SP mostly play a part, as well as kill them if they try to fly a ship they're not specialized in and you are.
NeoTheo Caldari Species 5618 R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.23 11:42:00 - [51] to be honest i am glad i the days of the solo pwn mobile are comming to a end, scripts arnt just gonna break 1 setup, they are gonna alter them all. meaning whilst the change effects you, it prolly effects everyone else in your gang also.
Grismar Gallente The Establishment Establishment	Posted - 2007.11.23 11:59:00 - [52] I agree with the majority of the posters in this thread: older players shouldn't be able to defeat newer ones simply because of their age. However, it remains a valid point that older players should (or at least could) be awarded for being around longer. And guess what: they are. Having been around for longer doesn't just get you a ton of level V skills in any given profession (which a new player can get in a couple of months). It's gets you a ton of skill points in other professions as well, which gives you something the new player doesn't get: versatility. I can jump in any battleship, T2 cruiser, T2 frigate or some specialist ship (like a Bomber, Barge, Freighter or a Logistics vessel) and fly it decently. That's what my age gets me, but when I'm 1-on-1 with a newer player in the exact same ship, who just happens to have focused his skills on that ship, the odds are even. (well, except for the fact that I lose a fortune when I lose my clone, but then you shouldn't lose it ^^) That's -exactly- as it should be in a properly balanced game. Greetings, Grismar. Your EVE IGB home: EVE Wiki, Explorer, Navigator
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.23 12:12:00 - [53] In response to the opening post: Assuming a "normal" encounter,.... If 4 pvp characters with 10mil SPs each engage 1 pvp player who has 40mil SPs, the 1 player should die. ANY other outcome is broken. As for encounters where one side or the other has marked advantages or disadvantages, the 1 player could beat the 4, or be killed even more easily. CCP must work aggressively to be sure that any pvp player a year old who has reasonable focus in his training can be dangerous to ANY target when the 1 year old is acting within his trained role, ESPECIALLY in group play. Play nice while you butcher each other.
Cautet North Siders	Posted - 2007.11.23 12:48:00 - [54] If this game was simply a game of "who has the most sp wins" why bother logging on, we can just compare sp's instead - you get more you win, I get more I win (oh wait, thats trumps). Why bother playing eve when you can go play football against a bunch of 5 year olds instead, or that not satisfying enough? If you have been around for longer you should (and do) know more tricks and tactics than the younger player, which should be a good enough advantage for you. Plus you still get huge advantages in having more SP's, not to mention more flexibility so you can adapt better to changes.
NeoTheo Caldari Species 5618 R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.23 12:58:00 - [55] Edited by: NeoTheo on 23/11/2007 13:05:04 Originally by: Sergeant Spot In response to the opening post: Assuming a "normal" encounter,.... If 4 pvp characters with 10mil SPs each engage 1 pvp player who has 40mil SPs, the 1 player should die. ANY other outcome is broken. what a load of codswallop. i stoped reading here (maybe a mistake and ill get pwned). you can only have so many skillpoints in 1 thing. my 30 million SP dont get me any better than someone in a Assault frig with 15 million SP assuming he has AF5, and light missiles 5. and relivent support skills. 1 ship can only be flow so good, and with very well planed training you can max out certain ships very quickly.
Megadon Caldari Deathshead Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.23 13:08:00 - [56] Originally by: DHB WildCat Younger players in smaller ships should NOT die to an older player in a larger ship, right? WildCat fixed it for you courtesy of Oveure --------------
Louis DelaBlanche Cosmic Odyssey YouWhat	Posted - 2007.11.23 13:21:00 - [57] Solo PvP in big ships has been a dead art for a longtime. It takes alot luck, & a scout alt (wish i had one would have saved me alot of isk in losses ), to hope to have any real sucess at it (ie, being able to shoot more than one thing before the heavens open & the blob decends upon you). Nanohacs, & lately Nanohac blobs are the "PvPer" setup of choise these days I think. I miss being able to solo in big ships, as I dont enjoy nanoganking. But the move away from large ship soloing is not recent, nor is it now impossible either as has been said. As to old players beating new players by default...no. My sp lvl is no indication of my capabilities of flying n using a ship. id say for every ship i fly, at least 1/2 of my skillpoints have no affect on, if not more. If im flying a pimped out T2 ship n run into a T1 ship of a new player, id expect to win; but if not, take it as a lesson for myself not an unfair/broken/discriminatory aspect of the game (least now we dont have to fear the multispec of doom )
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.23 13:50:00 - [58] Edited by: Sergeant Spot on 23/11/2007 13:53:45 Originally by: NeoTheo Edited by: NeoTheo on 23/11/2007 13:05:04 Originally by: Sergeant Spot In response to the opening post: Assuming a "normal" encounter,.... If 4 pvp characters with 10mil SPs each engage 1 pvp player who has 40mil SPs, the 1 player should die. ANY other outcome is broken. what a load of codswallop. i stoped reading here (maybe a mistake and ill get pwned). you can only have so many skillpoints in 1 thing. my 30 million SP dont get me any better than someone in a Assault frig with 15 million SP assuming he has AF5, and light missiles 5. and relivent support skills. 1 ship can only be flow so good, and with very well planed training you can max out certain ships very quickly. Illiterate for the lose You seem to be demanding I'm wrong because you firmly believe my statements are correct. Play nice while you butcher each other.
Liam Liam	Posted - 2007.11.23 14:03:00 - [59] Edited by: Liam Liam on 23/11/2007 14:03:59 I think the point he was trying to make is that a fully skilled battleship with good gun/ missile skills should own a couple of frigs and a couple of cruisers with poor to reasonable skills not the other way round. I can see the problem I think a fully skilled battleship should be able to own frigs but at the moment it can't. To be honest battleships are a bit underpowered.
DHB WildCat BURN EDEN	Posted - 2007.11.23 16:10:00 - [60] Originally by: Liam Liam Edited by: Liam Liam on 23/11/2007 14:03:59 I think the point he was trying to make is that a fully skilled battleship with good gun/ missile skills should own a couple of frigs and a couple of cruisers with poor to reasonable skills not the other way round. I can see the problem I think a fully skilled battleship should be able to own frigs but at the moment it can't. To be honest battleships are a bit underpowered. Im glad someone has a better ability to get the point accross than I do. This is the first part of my problem but expressed much better than I had done. Thank you Liam. My second part was about tactics. Most active modules are becoming nerfed by having scripts to diviate thier abilities. Would you agree? This takes what used to be one module and forces you to fit to if you want the desired effect you used to have from just the one. So what this will force a lot of people to do is to set-up modules that can be more effective while saving slots. So what used to be a smaller gang could hold thier own against a much larger one, with a wide range of tactics, is reduced to only a hand full. Of which I expect to see those fully exploited 8). Im just saying that I think this game has been reduced to blaster set-ups and logistic ships, with very few options to think outside the box. It can still be done, but the limitations have greatly increased due to scripts. I have noticed that quite a few older players agree when they understand what Im trying to say, which is hard I know 8). And the younger ones are still saying well I should be able to hang with the older boys. We dissagree on that but we always will. Thank you to all the older players that make rthis game fun. Intense 1 vs 1 / 2 vs 1 is what I still live for, but the blob is going to overcome us. While I do have the I-WIN button, I really do hate the idea that I can destroy an entire fleet with no tactics whatso ever and will continue to use the raven as much as possible. For those of you who are going to say well that's contridictory, it is not. I believe one guy should be able to take on a smallish (2-5) Younger players, not destroy 2-300 man fleets with one click. WildCat

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