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Lurk
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Posted - 2004.03.06 01:57:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Lurk on 09/03/2004 12:24:17
I made some thoughts how the game could be changed in order to make battleships not the optimal ship for everything but make them worth their money.
Which these changed, every shipclass in eve would have it's role. It would make sense to choose a frigate or cruiser even if you own a battleship for certain situations. But if you choose to fly a battleship you would still fly the king of all ships. However, if you travel without escort, you are vulnerable to quick frigate/bomber raids.
Instead of changing the ships, CCP could just make the level2 ships to what i suggest:
General things that need to be changed:
- A lot of modules (shield hardeners for example) need fitting requiments and using requiments, either in percentage (5% powergrid usage) or depending on ship size. That would make those modules easier available for smaller ships and making it a bit harder to fit for the big ones. (in general what happened to ABs and MWDs already)
- Shield recharge rate needs to mean something. If shield recharge would be similar fast to the cap recharge now, combined with upped hitpoints mentioned below, ships would have a relatively good natural shield tanking ability, however shield boosters have a purpose as the shield recharge rate would be very low once the shield is down (similar to the cap). There should be some kind of maximum though to prevent invincible ships. (This would solve problems involving cap power relays and the uselessness of +shield recharge rate bonus)
- Capital Ships need a huge boost in HP, i suggest putting it mainly into structure.
Examples:
I'd give an indy values like 1000hp shield/1000hp armor/50000hp structure. It's not designed for combat but it is a large ship so don't expect it to go down fast though it will go down eventually if without help.
A battleships should have like 7000hp shield/10000hp armor/70000hp structure. It's designed to take damage, a lot of damage, even if it's primary defenses are down (shields, armor), it still takes a lot of time to kill all the structure.
A Cruiser like 3000hp shield/2000hp armor/10000-20000hp structure, depending on the cruiser class. Can take considerable damage but nothing compared to a battleship.
Frigates would be fine with the values they have now, i would up it a bit though, something like 500hp shield/500hp armor/800hp structure. Now this would be A LOT less than bigger ships but they could take one or too big hits.
That should vary depending on classes, bombers having more armor and structure cause they are slower and interceptors having a big shield but low structure.
- Bigger ships should require more scrambling strenght to be successfully scrambled (I think this is already in order)
- Introduce module or system damage !
you have to be somehow able to damage and thus deactivating ship modules and/or systems while damaging the structure. Either make special guns / ammunition for that cause, give a %-chance of system damage when hitting structure or add the ability to shoot at specific modules/systems of a ship. Modules and Systems should repair automatically over time.
In fact there are modules in game that raise module hitpoints but currently there seems to be no way to damage them (and even if damaged, modules still work 100%)
- I don't know what to do with smartbombs yet. The way they are currently, they are WAY to overpowered against frigates, drones and missiles.
Ship Changes:
Frigates:
As already planned there should be very different classes of frigates, including scouts, interceptors, bombers and special op ships. Scouts are fast, agile and have excellent sensors but poor armament. Interceptors should be the ideal anti-frigate frigate. They should be similar to scouts but do good damage vs all kinds of frigates but poor damage against anything bigger. Gunships would be the next class, slower than scouts and interceptors but more hitpoints and firepower. They have problems tracking fast frigates but are good against slower frigates and small cruisers. Bombers should be relatively fast bit not agile. They do excellent damage to big cruisers, battleships and stationary targets with their bombs but they need to be close for that. They have a good armor but they are no match for interceptors. Special Op frigates should perform tasks like flying ahead cloaked, spy the enemy, jam or scramble big ships while the rest of the fleet warps in. They are a good allround frigate, but weaker as interceptors and do poor damage against big ships.
Edit: Had one point posted twice.
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Lurk
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Posted - 2004.03.06 01:58:00 -
[2]
Cruisers:
There should be Escort, Support and Assault Cruisers. Escort Cruisers being relatively small and fast, having the role to escort big ships and defend them against nasty bombers. They are fairly good against frigates but have problems tracking the faster ones so they don't do the job as good as interceptors do. In return they do more damage against bigger ships. They are still fast enough to dodge most of the big weapons. However, their firepower is nothing compared to assault cruisers which have good hp and BIG guns. Ideal for attacking slower cruisers, big battleships and stationary targets. They are rather slow though, thus making them vulverable to bombers. They don't hit anything being smaller than a medium cruiser well. Support Cruisers serve a variety of roles, including EW, shield and cap support or drone carriers.
Battleships:
The king size ... but not almighty. They receive awesome hitpoints but they are vulnerable to bombers and a pack of big cruisers. They speciality is dealing awesome damage, long range if neccessary. The don't hit well if the target moves fast though. They can be fitted for less damage but more tracking making them able to hit the fastest cruisers but still frigates pose a threat. They can also be fitted as support ships, bearing large shield transfer arrays for example that keep the rest of the fleet alive. A battleships role should be destroying bigger cruisers, other battleships and staionary targets like sentry guns, mobile disruptors and assaulting stations.
Industrials:
Don't increase their speed and agility but their cargo a bit and greatly increase their hp. How are indys mean to be escorted if the attackers can ignore the escort and just finish off the indy in one salvo. Also introduce mining ships, battleships aren't really meant to be mining are they ? Mining ships should be similar to cargo ships but have a smaller cargo (~1000m¦) and laser hardpoints. However they should not be able to mount weapons so they are defenseless against any kind of attack (if not escorted). They should also have a big structure keeping them alive long enough for the escort to finish the attackers.
Drones:
Drones should serve even more special roles than frigates. In general they should have low hp, bearing their strengh in their small size and fast speed. Any drones should die quick when attacked by interceptors or gunboat cruisers. Big ships don't need defenses against interceptors, as interceptors can't harm them anyways. There should be small drones to deal with the bigger frigates as bombers. Bigger drones are easier to hit but do more damage, being best used against larger cruisers. And finally heavy drones, doing quite some damage but being relatively big and slow, but ideal against battleships. Support drones would also be cool such as repair drones, scramble drones, defender drones (against missiles) and ecm drones.
Please do not flame in this post but try to improve my ideas. Constructive critisism is welcome too.
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Baleur
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Posted - 2004.03.06 02:47:00 -
[3]
damn man, let ccp hire u right now and put you in charge of the patches 
God i gotta change my sig..
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Lurk
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Posted - 2004.03.06 12:48:00 -
[4]
I forgot one thing:
Smaller targets should be harder to hit than bigger targets. Right now only the transversal speed is significant (as far as i know).
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Inquisitus
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Posted - 2004.03.06 16:35:00 -
[5]
I like it! Great ideas there
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Wild Rho
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Posted - 2004.03.07 01:01:00 -
[6]
Very very well thought out. Thumbs up here.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it... |
Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.03.07 02:46:00 -
[7]
Arouff!
Convert Stations
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Vel Kyri
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Posted - 2004.03.08 07:27:00 -
[8]
Love the idea..
got me thinking again :)
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Janus Rebelknight
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Posted - 2004.03.08 07:58:00 -
[9]
Excellent ideas here and this would go a long way to restoring ship balance.
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Janus
"I'm not a stripper, I'm a miner." |
Nicholas Marshal
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Posted - 2004.03.08 09:39:00 -
[10]
 Quote:
I forgot one thing:
Smaller targets should be harder to hit than bigger targets. Right now only the transversal speed is significant (as far as i know).
This is the single biggest thing that would make a difference. A battleship (with big guns equpipped) should have virtually NO chance of hitting a rifter/raptor etc going 3000k/ms.
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Hitomi
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Posted - 2004.03.08 12:51:00 -
[11]
It's times like this i wish the devs would actually respond to threads in this section, then we'd know they have seen this stuff!
Love the ideas
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Lurk
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Posted - 2004.03.09 01:10:00 -
[12]
Edit:
We need to get rid of wrecking shots as they are now. Currently a wrecking shot has like 1% to occur, not taking into account range and transversal speed. So you can score a wrecking to a target that is 500km away with a neutron blaster or hit a 2km/s orbiting frigate with your 1400mm Howitzer. Considering a wrecking from a howitzer annihilates a frigate they need to be changed ...
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Jemba'k Ko'cha
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Posted - 2004.03.09 01:40:00 -
[13]
very very good suggestions imo. especialy the Mining vessel and the structural HP.
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Knowledge is the bomb |
Imperishable
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Posted - 2004.03.09 02:45:00 -
[14]
good ideas, tho points 1 and 2 are the same
I suggest making shield recharge rate very fast on frigates but slow on battleships.
I also think that frigates should be able to target certain modules on battleship, with a % chance to hit the module. If they miss, it's treated like regular damage.
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Dawson
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Posted - 2004.03.09 03:01:00 -
[15]
These are all great ideas, that would be brilliant for eve... sounds alot like homeworld 2 though.
Ambassador
Admiral of the Blue
Join BSC |
Jemba'k Ko'cha
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Posted - 2004.03.09 03:11:00 -
[16]
Quote:
These are all great ideas, that would be brilliant for eve... sounds alot like homeworld 2 though.
that in itself definatly isnt a bad thing. homeworld 2 was a brilliant game.
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Knowledge is the bomb |
Churchyard
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Posted - 2004.03.09 03:37:00 -
[17]
Nice one Lurk
I agree 100% with all you just said
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Neko Makai
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Posted - 2004.03.09 04:11:00 -
[18]
one thing i hate is how ppl counter with other games being similar. Face it, now a days everything that anyone has been done once or twice over. Its really hard to make a game without taking from any other source whatsoever. So what if its a little like Freelancer, So what if it has some things of homeworld. Combining good points of other games is what make games now great.
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Neko Makai
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Posted - 2004.03.09 04:15:00 -
[19]
Also, pertaining topic, your ideaas are great. I dont think CCP wanted ship classes just to be a step ladder to BS, i think they wanted all ships to be incorparated in battle.
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Elton
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Posted - 2004.03.09 12:49:00 -
[20]
how is a mining ship going to stay alive on it's own without weapons in the NPC pirate patroled belts
that will put more pressure on the belts in higher security space
not everybody is in a large corp that goes out mining in pacts of 3or more
that is if mining ships don't have drone bays like industrial
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Lurk
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Posted - 2004.03.09 13:27:00 -
[21]
It was never planned that solo players should be able to mine in 0.0 (at least not effectively). You don't need to be in a large corp though. Get some friends or join a small corp, 2-4 people are enough to do it (depending on the NPC spawns).
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Exousia
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Posted - 2004.03.11 13:28:00 -
[22]
god damn man.. 
CCP should hire you!
P.S. you have to much time to think!
(in a good way) 
seriously, great idea!
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Elton
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Posted - 2004.03.11 17:10:00 -
[23]
who's talking about mining in 0.0 you can mine anywhere but as it is now it will just be a toy for the corporations that do such mining trips with enough people that want to and are online
without backup it's useless on it's own that will never make people want one and they will stick with the battleships that atleast have drones for protections against NPC pirates so they can go down to 0.5 for kernite or 0.4 i forgot where the stuff is 
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Drac Dragnog
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Posted - 2004.03.11 19:35:00 -
[24]
Quote:
without backup it's useless on it's own that will never make people want one and they will stick with the battleships that atleast have drones for protections against NPC pirates so they can go down to 0.5 for kernite or 0.4 i forgot where the stuff is
.7  you need to explore a bit more....
*Disclaimer* Random Babble is quite possible |
Elton
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Posted - 2004.03.12 14:05:00 -
[25]
0.7 whatever
and how that makes me a bad explorer which i'm not anyway i don't understand
i clearly said i forgot where it was specialy since they have been moving ore types around since the patch before the last one
Castor patch i think
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Tripp Orsam
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Posted - 2004.03.13 20:46:00 -
[26]
I cant believe that someone has taken the time to post some really nice ideas here and noone from CCP has replied (same with many other good posts i've read in this section of the forum), even just to say that this has been seen by someone in house. Would be very nice to have some feedback from anyone in CCP as to what they think of the ideas.
maybe this is not how this forum is supposed to work, maybe ive missed something.
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EVE Online perfectly strikes all your free time wrecking your 1994 marriage. |
Roninman
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Posted - 2004.03.14 22:03:00 -
[27]
Great ideas !
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DHU InMe
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Posted - 2004.03.15 01:40:00 -
[28]
Quote:
I forgot one thing:
Smaller targets should be harder to hit than bigger targets. Right now only the transversal speed is significant (as far as i know).
Good point.
Also for all other ship, give them (CCP) some time to draw ship and balance them.
Nice links (updated 20 Dec 04):
BP, bugs about them.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way. |
Brother Victae
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Posted - 2004.03.15 03:49:00 -
[29]
Good ideas, although I think you went a wee bitty overboard on the HP increases
With those values it would be almost impossible to kill an enemy ship unless you outnumber them, meaning blob-wars would become even more commonplace.
The trouble with the current system is that the advantage:drawback ratio is not properly ballanced. Frigates and most cruisers(blackbird still does pretty well) have many drawbacks, but few advantages, whereas battleships have a ton of advantages but very very few drawbacks.
It should work in a fairly simplistic way really, ie:
Battleships > Stations, other battleships(depending on skills), moderatly useful vs larger cruisers, utterly useless against tier 1/2 cruisers and frigates.
Tier 3 cruisers > other cruisers, decent vs battleships, fairly useless against frigates.
Tier 1/2 cruisers > similar cruisers, fair chance against tier 3 cruisers, not very effective vs battleships, moderatly useful against frigates(certain cruisers like the Arbitrator are ideal for anti-frigate Destroyer classes).
(Im assuming all frigates are being deployed in squadrons of between 3 and 5 here)
Interceptors > all other frigates, worthless against anything else.
Escorts > Bombers, fair chance against tier 1/2 cruisers, worthless vs Interceptors, tier 3 cruisers and battleships.
Bombers > tier 1/2 cruisers, moderate chance against tier 3 cruisers, can pose a serious threat to battleships unless target has anti-frigate escorts. Useless against other frigates.
When I envisioned fleet combat in EVE, I saw a balanced ship composition. A typical fleet(using the above as a guideline) would consist of:
2-5 battleships
4-8 tier 3 cruisers
2-6 tier 1/2 cruisers(some configured as support, some as anti-frigate Destroyers)
8-20 frigates of various classes.
This sort of system would radically reduce blob-wars, because unless your going up against something much much bugger than you, or something designed specifically to kill you, you have a fair chance. As it stands now, Battleships > everything else.
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Kywrith Droshi
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Posted - 2004.04.20 18:04:00 -
[30]
These ideas are really great, I like them very much and I am still a new player. Lurk I think you shoud contact them with your information and request that they look it over, in hopes that some of these changes are developed, or something.
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