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Black 5
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Posted - 2004.03.06 18:23:00 -
[1]
Battleships are ruining Eve.
First off batttleships shouldnt be able to mine they are called Battleships for a reason...You want a crazy miner?? Ask CCP to make you an industrial ship specific for minning.
CCP has made the battleship the "do it all ship". And because of that its taken away all purpose for using any other ships for anything.
Secondly Battleships are way to easy to aquire. Every noob can buy one after playing for a month. Seeing a battlleship should be like "wow a battleships!, thats one mean beast" But quite frankly they're more common than frigates and its pathetic.
this would bring frigates and cruiser into the game and bring more pvp because ppl wont be so affraid to lose such an expensive ship. So it will prevent the formation of more carebears.
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Kiana'tre
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Posted - 2004.03.06 18:27:00 -
[2]
Tell them to take out the sentries and i promise we will get rid of alot of them.
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DeGrand
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Posted - 2004.03.06 18:32:00 -
[3]
umm
 Quote:
Secondly Battleships are way to easy to aquire. Every noob can buy one after playing for a month.
this would bring frigates and cruiser into the game and bring more pvp because ppl wont be so affraid to lose such an expensive ship.
Make up your mind please..are they easy to get or expensive?
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2004.03.06 18:33:00 -
[4]
I have to admit that I was more than surprised to see the battleship's cargo capacity. I personally believe it should have less cargo space than a cruiser since a cruiser is intended as an all round ship and the battleship is meant to be, let's face it, an efficient ship designed for battle and nothing else.
I wouldn't mind, but there ARE industrial ships and mining cans and cargo containers and all sorts of things that can be used to mine better - you shouldn't be in a battleship just because you can be, just like you don't fly everywhere in an industial ship.
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Mandros Aslay
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Posted - 2004.03.06 18:43:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Mandros Aslay on 06/03/2004 18:51:17
Edited by: Mandros Aslay on 06/03/2004 18:49:17
Edited by: Mandros Aslay on 06/03/2004 18:44:00
I worry more about the lose of implants and skill points than a battleship..
Lost me a skorp and saved to get a raven .....Got it now. What ship do i use most ?
MY KESTREL.
Why ? speed , can shoot cruise and has a low sig for targeting.
I also test what I can get away with in terms of missons. I get the Caracal if life is hard and if the buggers are being annoying , then the Raven.
Some ships just arent worth the effort. Osprey anyone ...not in my opinion.
But yes Battleships shouldnt have miner ability.
Battleships are for Battle. If you want to kill 2k pirates in a BS then fine but make it cost. Dont allow small and medium weapons to be attached. Large only and expensive charges.
Make the cost of the kill matter ....
BTW dont assume everyone gets battleship in the first month. I worked long and hard for my first ships. I have all Caldari ships now (except the Skorp ) and have worked hard for these......In my day working towards a Indy was a journey and so on .... I hope it still is... there is not enouh content besides the financial drive towards a goal. I have mined, missioned and manufactured, I will NOT pirate , and am a weedy pvp (was better before the Tachs got nerfed (Radio L  ))
Where was I ??? 
Said enuf , didnt follow the subject of the thread probably.
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Nosnibor
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Posted - 2004.03.06 19:04:00 -
[6]
This is a very good thread people and I totally agree with you Black 5 - not that that means much
e.g. I set up my small ship to do mining in a system that has loads of say scordite one day and the next.... the belts rapped by battleships we small guys not standing a chance, a little frustrating to say the least
Nos
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Roger Welco
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Posted - 2004.03.06 19:11:00 -
[7]
I totaly agree. And have said before that BS should never be able to mine. What is needed is a expansion on the industrial that includes mining ships... and yes they should be expensive, to buy, to train to use and have limited defence ablity. After all youare investing in a money making machine.
Yes i have a several BS and never mined in any of them. and to me honest i to use my kestral 90% of the time, i find cruisers etc to slow..... 
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Fuujin
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Posted - 2004.03.06 19:15:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Fuujin on 06/03/2004 19:15:59
"Battleship" is just a way of categorizing the ships. They have turret slots thus they can equip mining lasers. Why should the title of a ship in the game limit what a person uses it for? If it works then do it.
_______________
The sword has to be more than a simple weapon; it has to be an answer to life's questions
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Mamer
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Posted - 2004.03.06 19:20:00 -
[9]
I consider myself an average player(not sure exactly what average is) but I dont spend my life on here, I have work and a gf who dosent know of EVE. How can you say someone can afford a bs in a month? I wish. I started back in August and have struggled for everything I have accomplished. Even when I got a Armageddon, it took me 2 months of so to pay off to the owner. I still have it to this day. Now, 8 month later, I am just now getting a Apoc bp copy, and It will prob be another month before I have all the minerals, mosly zyd and mega before I can even build it. I think someone like me this game is very good in terms of risk/reward ect. I think timewise this game is fitting to me finally getting into a Apoc. I feel after all my work and time that I kinda deserve to enjoy something nice. Your right if you say "if you lose it your screwed" yes, so I'll figure out some insurance and just pick any fights carefully if I can. Im happy with how things are and I see no reason to change much.
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Mongo Peck
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Posted - 2004.03.06 19:23:00 -
[10]
Cargo space is fine ... after all a Battleship needs to hold ammo etc etc ..
I do fully agree that battleships "should not" be able to fit mining lasers ....
Mongo speaks !!
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Nosnibor
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Posted - 2004.03.06 19:25:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Nosnibor on 06/03/2004 19:27:48
I disagree with you Fuujin, it is not just a way to categorise them, they are called what they are called for a reason - study the spec, that's a clue, otherwise they might as well call them Small ships, Medium ships and Large ships!
I think a BS should have drone hold and ammo hold and a very small cargo hold. Problem solved for the ammo issue.
Nos
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Fuujin
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Posted - 2004.03.06 19:32:00 -
[12]
I understand that. But like i say, it has turret slots........thus if need be im going to stick a mining laser on there since its clearly more efficient than my thorax.
I can understand where you're comming from though. If they had a diffrent slot altogether for mining lasers then it would make sense but at this point a turret slot is a turret slot, wether its a mining turret or a fighting turret. I just find it dumb that people say "we'll u should mine in one just because it's called a battleship"
_______________
The sword has to be more than a simple weapon; it has to be an answer to life's questions
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Cabadrin
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Posted - 2004.03.06 19:36:00 -
[13]
I've been saying it for months Black 5, screw the bships, cruisers should be the most used.
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Coalition Kill Board |
Nathan Reynolds
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Posted - 2004.03.06 20:04:00 -
[14]
Only thing i got to say to this is: STFU !!!
I do NOT care if YOU dont like to see Bships mining or if you think they are to easy to get.
I for example do not own a bship yet, as many others like me. If Bships get more expensive WE will be the screwed ones.
Maybee YOU would not care (since you already own a stack of em...) but WE will.
So unless every single player in eve gets striped bar his Bs's AND BS BP's/BPC's you cant simply make em more expensive without thinking about US.
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Pacman
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Posted - 2004.03.06 20:35:00 -
[15]
y dont people stop complaining bout the game and just enjoy it for what it is....i think CCP did a wonderful job of making the game the way it is, sure there are a few things i would like to see changed, but i dont go complaining on the forums when something doesnt go my way....its almost arrogent of u to think that the game should be made to do what u like and what u want it to do.....a word of advice is to just play the game, enjoy it and stop *****ing |
IZON
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Posted - 2004.03.06 20:42:00 -
[16]
This this is an old argument one that has never been addressed by the devs. But I agree, having battleships with the ability to mine became a problem when people realised how fast a roid belt could be stripped with a fleet of them.
Remove the ability to mine for BS's and up the mining turrets on 'lvl 5' industrials.
"...master! there's a guy in the south village called IZON, he is a Ninja!" |
Mirimon
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Posted - 2004.03.06 21:26:00 -
[17]
The only good point, that I agree with, that really should have been like this the whole time is Battleship not being able to equip mining lasers. This is one of the most annoying things, IMO, that seems really screwed up, and needs to be fixed. It's REALLY simple...have MINING TURRET hardpoints, and new mining ship...not that hard.
"Then I guess I have no choice...but to kill you all." |
Tank CEO
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Posted - 2004.03.06 21:37:00 -
[18]
Quote:
Tell them to take out the sentries and i promise we will get rid of alot of them.
hahaha YEA.
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syndic4te
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Posted - 2004.03.06 22:13:00 -
[19]
hey tank ur in moo, i though joo was fe
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2004.03.06 22:19:00 -
[20]
The only issue I have with battleships is the fact they can be unbelievable mining vessels. One solution I've seen on the boards several times before was to make Miners and Deep Core Mining Lasers operate only on a dedicated turret mount type, one that battleships and other vessels clearly dedicated for combat should not have.
You read the information on ships and you see how they're talked about as being new combat class ships for a particular race or wahtever, yet those same ships are often use almost exclusively for things they're not "intended" for. Might be nice if that could be fixed somehow.
___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie// |
K'roth Manatir
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Posted - 2004.03.06 22:50:00 -
[21]
I totally agree, there are still too many battleships in eve. I think part of the reson they're so prevelant is the way the skill tree works. it just makes alot more sence to train up for battleship asap rather than spending time training your skills to make frigates and cruisers more powerful.
Battleships are everywhere so much so that its hard to do any PvP in a frig or cruiser as you're almost guaranteed to meet a bunch of battleships as your foe.
As there are so many battleship the game has been balanced now in such a way as to make it even harder for frigs and cruisers. NPC hunting is now really hard in anything under a BS. If you want to hunt convoys you cant now due to the long range guns. Piracy in frigs would also be really hard as everyone is in a battleship.
Oh and of course lots of battleships = big risk in fighting = boring blob wars.
CCP seem aware of the problem tho judging by the recent dev chat. I hope they can find a way to balance it soon.
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Horatio Starkiller
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Posted - 2004.03.06 23:24:00 -
[22]
Totally agree there should be a dedicated miner with similar capacity to an indy with a few more hi-slots for more mining laser's. In real life would u take a mining vessel that could hold nothing?
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Nathan Zachary
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Posted - 2004.03.07 23:10:00 -
[23]
Why are always the ppl who already HAVE their Bships AND already made millions with em complaining about em?
You cant change that without think about all the new players that want to earn some isk too in a reasonable amount of time.
and a indy with 2 mining lasers or something along that does not realy compare to an appoc or mega doign it for moths now....
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KIAInkZ
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Posted - 2004.03.07 23:20:00 -
[24]
what's mining?
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Forums/Killboard - http://www.kia-corp.co.uk |
Mongo Peck
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Posted - 2004.03.07 23:24:00 -
[25]
KIAInkZ .......... whats pvp .... 
Mongo speaks !!
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Nemesis I
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Posted - 2004.03.07 23:26:00 -
[26]
Cruisers and Frigates, aswell as Battleships are a fighter class ships. So if the battleship cant have them, neither by the same logic, can the small fighter class ships.
Only solution to your argument, is to make a new ship class for mining - which probably becuase its purpose built for mining, would be huge have just as many mining turrets as a battleship and cause the same arguments.
Ive found plenty of belts to mine in and out of empire space - just takes a bit of work!
Just play the game...
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KIAInkZ
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Posted - 2004.03.07 23:39:00 -
[27]
Quote:
KIAInkZ .......... whats pvp ....
not sure, but i've been advised not to ask you :P
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Forums/Killboard - http://www.kia-corp.co.uk |
Lord JoeBlack
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Posted - 2004.03.08 00:09:00 -
[28]
As far as the problem that Battleships are too easily aquired... The problem is the game moves at such a phenominally slow pace that by the time something new comes out, 80% of all players have the wealth and resources accumulated to aquire whatever they want. This decreases there potential value making them affordable even to new players. And even tho a n00b cant use it worth a damn cause they have just enough skills to fly it, and nothing more. They dont risk loosing much because they can insure it for the time it takes to train up a good skill set with one payment. And they have everything to gain by turning it into a huge mining/npc hunting platform. Then, on top of it all... They have nothing but time (until "soon") to use that battleship to aquire wealth to wait for the next best thing. So the problem is the players are developing faster than the game. Castor was an attempt to slow things down a bit, and release a few temporary solutions to tide people over.. This is one of the main reasons just about 90% of the experienced players I know either left the game or joined a PVP corp like m0o or Evol. Its not battleships that ruin the game... Its a combination of broken game mechanics and lack of content.
P.S. Dont get me wrong.. I love the game. It has huge potential. Just right now I'm completely bored with everything the game has to offer. The only way to move forward is to gain wealth and resorces for an unknown item that will be released at an unknown time. And game mechanics prevent any sense of real power or influence. The most you can do is make people run away and dock/log. Then when you go away they come right back. So I'm waiting patiently until the game has something to offer again. Paying a subscription fee for a game I dont even play anymore in the hopes I can play it later.
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Jayad
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Posted - 2004.03.08 00:22:00 -
[29]
im so worried CCP think the inclusion of T2 Frigs is enough to ballance things.
As mentioned, we need game changing dynamics, extra hardpoint types and more combat mechanics to acurately portray combat of Large/Small vessels.
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Voss Matsu
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Posted - 2004.03.08 00:39:00 -
[30]
Ok, if Battleships weren't designed to mine, what do you make of this:
MOA: Quote:
The Moa-class is almost exclusively used by the Caldari Navy, and only factions or persons in very good standing with the Caldari State can acquire one. The Moa was designed as an all-out combat ship, and its heavy armament allows the Moa to tackle almost anything that floats in space.
THORAX: Quote:
The Thorax-class cruisers are the latest combat ships commissioned by the Federation. In the few times it has seen action since its christening, it has performed admirably. The hordes of combat drones it carries allow it to strike against unwary opponents far away and to easily fight many opponents at the same time.
Most probably the 2 most favored cruiser class ships ingame, and nothing about mining in their description. The moa was designed as an all out combat ship, and the thorax is the latest combat vessel of the Federation. So how dare people use them for mining right?
People have different proffessions in game. Miners paid just as much for their battleships, therefore they are entitled to gain from them, just as combat pilots are. The beauty of eve is that one can outfit their ship to suit their needs. The old "battleships should be used for battle" is getting old people.
A BS is the only option to extend mining abilities from a cruiser class ship, so until industrial mining ships are introduced, stripping BS's of their mining abilities is ridiculous.
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DREAMWORKS
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Posted - 2004.03.08 01:51:00 -
[31]
Well we removed 9 tonight from the game, so were doing our best!
__________________________
http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html |
Deep Spacer
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Posted - 2004.03.08 02:18:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Deep Spacer on 08/03/2004 02:23:56
U can fit guns to a battleship?! 
im a miner. all i do is mine. every day.
i saved up 120 million to buy my shiney apoc...why the heck should u care what i do with it.
the big problem is apocs wandering into the .9 and 1.0 systems and stripping it out. i mine in empire space, but i WILL NOT mine .9 and 1.0, those are for the new players. anyone that does so is a complete pansey/n00b/dork/moron/carebear!!
if they ever made an industrial that is worth anything for mining (at least 4 turrets, 2000 dronebay, 2000 cargo, and mining bonus's) i would trade my apoc in and buy 3 of em. i like mining in a BS, but its a real shame to be doing it in the most powerful amarr ship
they need to restrict battleships in 1.0 somehow. make concord powerdown all high slot modules for battleships or sumthing. From a RP standpoint that would be like for the maximum prevention of conflict or sumthing. those big corps will have to move there wars out to .9 and lower
*edit* kinda trailed off and never finished off the post with ideas to fix problems
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Sassinak
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Posted - 2004.03.08 02:34:00 -
[33]
Quote:
Cargo space is fine ... after all a Battleship needs to hold ammo etc etc ..
I do fully agree that battleships "should not" be able to fit mining lasers ....
Yup
Battleship
Sass
Arcane Technologies |
Ashantee
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Posted - 2004.03.08 02:36:00 -
[34]
boy... i still remember the first screenshot of a BS. It was next to a frig, and cause back then in beta all i had ever seen were frigs (and i think everyone else had seen) i was amazed. a huge thread was started about how big and cool it was... and how only CEO's of corps would be flying them... kinda like most people right now view titans.
My point is, untill titans come out, A BS should be the flag ship of the fleet, but right now it serves as the basic combat unit.
In the long term, i hope to see a great fleet battle.. with 1 titan leading 2-3 BS's and 15 cruisers... all those supported by a few frigs (gunboats and interceptors). I think this is what CCP saw too, as they admitted people got to BS's WAY faster than they thought.
I was hoping it would be something impressive, a moral breaker. If you went in to attack an enemy mining op and instead of seeing a thorax or 2 guarding... you saw a BS. It would be the thing that would make you re-think sticking around.
I also hope they change the mining laser thing (note: CCP made indy's hauling ships, not mining ships, personally i doubt we will ever see the mining indy as it would break up the teamplay of miner/hauler) not just on BS but on other ships, a Thorax is hailed as the greates mining cruiser ever, it can have 5 miner II's and a load of heavy drones to guard.. or sub some of those heavies for harvies. It kinda defeats the idea of a dedicated miner, one that would NEED protecting, that would support teamplay.
But as i doubt any Devs would read this far into the topic, and how 99% of posters don't actually think about what they read... this post most likely falls on deaf ears.
/emote sighs
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Mitawyn
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Posted - 2004.03.08 02:46:00 -
[35]
Quote:
Edited by: Fuujin on 06/03/2004 19:15:59
"Battleship" is just a way of categorizing the ships. They have turret slots thus they can equip mining lasers. Why should the title of a ship in the game limit what a person uses it for? If it works then do it.
I totally agree with the above post. I wish everyone would quit trying to stuff their idea of what this game is and how it should go down everyone else's throat. You buy the ship, you have the right to use it however you wish. It really does not matter what anyone else thinks.
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Alexis Machine
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Posted - 2004.03.08 02:55:00 -
[36]
Quote:
boy... i still remember the first screenshot of a BS. It was next to a frig, and cause back then in beta all i had ever seen were frigs (and i think everyone else had seen) i was amazed. a huge thread was started about how big and cool it was... and how only CEO's of corps would be flying them... kinda like most people right now view titans.
My point is, untill titans come out, A BS should be the flag ship of the fleet, but right now it serves as the basic combat unit.
In the long term, i hope to see a great fleet battle.. with 1 titan leading 2-3 BS's and 15 cruisers... all those supported by a few frigs (gunboats and interceptors). I think this is what CCP saw too, as they admitted people got to BS's WAY faster than they thought.
I was hoping it would be something impressive, a moral breaker. If you went in to attack an enemy mining op and instead of seeing a thorax or 2 guarding... you saw a BS. It would be the thing that would make you re-think sticking around.
I also hope they change the mining laser thing (note: CCP made indy's hauling ships, not mining ships, personally i doubt we will ever see the mining indy as it would break up the teamplay of miner/hauler) not just on BS but on other ships, a Thorax is hailed as the greates mining cruiser ever, it can have 5 miner II's and a load of heavy drones to guard.. or sub some of those heavies for harvies. It kinda defeats the idea of a dedicated miner, one that would NEED protecting, that would support teamplay.
But as i doubt any Devs would read this far into the topic, and how 99% of posters don't actually think about what they read... this post most likely falls on deaf ears.
/emote sighs
Heh.. .. I remember when we were arguing over frigates being too powerful. Anyway.I felt the same way. Very dissapointed.
I saw something about mining lasers being slot specific. I think that would be kinda cool. Of course you'd have to rethink the layout and balance on current ships.. or just come up with new ones...heh. But it should at least be considered.
----------------sig----------------------------
Dtai'kai'-dte sa-de nau'gkon dtain'aun bpi-de.
if you don't wake up, i'll have to stop kissing you. all that flailing has made you sleepy. you rest while i untie you. stay here until they find you. My hand made mannequin. i won't let them get you. they'll know you're mine by the fingerprints on your throat. isn't she lovely? isn't she wonderful? like the *****s that we are, swatting flies from the wounds we design. |
Drahcir Nasom
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Posted - 2004.03.08 03:02:00 -
[37]
Why should anyone else care what I do with my BS, whether I mine with it, run agent missions with it or hunt NPC rats in Empire with it, the one thing I will never do with it is come looking for a PvP fight.
I mainly do agent missions and the odd bit of rat hunting, I use a small frigate for fast cargo runs where cargo<100m3, a hauler kitted for speed where cargo>750m3 and a BS for everything else.
If you remove mining capabilities from battleships and cruisers, firstly the prices of all minerals will initially skyrocket like Mega and Zyd did when they became rare. Secondly as a result of the high mineral prices, prices for all manufactured items will skyrocket as well. But since rats drop too much loot, the people who have BS already and can go rat hunting will just dump loot onto the market. So rat hunters will make money from bounties AND from loot, manufacturers will be undercut by rat hunters and so won't be able to make any money. With the initial skyrocket of mineral prices more people will start mining to take advantage of it, but eventually because manufacturers aren't buying, prices will come back down, at which point mining in an indy will become unprofitable so all the miners that can will switch to rat hunting. Basically Eve will descend into a roller coaster economy with people switching between mining and rat hunting depending which is the better money maker. If the pirates manage to destroy ships/modules/cargo in the game faster than the miners can mine minerals to replace them, then eventually people will be forced into smaller and smaller ships as only the people with money will be able to afford the bigger ships. Those people who aren't in the game for PvP will quit, noobs won't be able to make any money to get anywhere and so will get bored really fast and quit and so the number of players will drop, until eventually the whole system crashes around us and Eve is no longer.
Eve atm works, it works fine, why go changing things for the sake of changing them? For all of you who want to ban BS's from anything except fighting, here's a clue, I and many others like me will quit this game before we become PvPers.
Drahcir Nasom
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Shannon Foraker
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Posted - 2004.03.08 03:04:00 -
[38]
Until CCP gives us dedicated mining ships of course we will all use combat ships to mine..
This thread has no meaning until the mining ships arrive. At the moment all I use my Apocs for is mining but if we get a mining ship I will use that.
As for saying that bs are ruining Eve... all I can say is CODSWALLOP...
We are getting dedicated ship soon(tm) so your guess is as good as mine as to when they will arrive.
Oh yeah and for 0.0 space it's a good idea to have a ship that can suck up some damage and not go BOOM!
As for them mining in 0.5 and higher just make the mining lasers inactive in those systems if they are on a bs. Problem solved.
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Shannon Foraker
Tactical Operations |
Archemedes
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Posted - 2004.03.08 03:16:00 -
[39]
Ironically, I recently got rid of my Apocalypse because it was a money sink. No one blew it up, so I had to re-insure it... but I wasn't making 35 million a month in it (my main occupation is running missions, which rarely need a battleship). 35 million every 4 weeks for a ship that just sits around my hangar 90% of the time wasn't worth it...
With insurance going up to 12 weeks I may get another Apoc (or a Geddon), since they ARE fun to hunt in... but when I'm actually working for ISK instead of having fun you'll usually find me in a frigate hauling stuff for my agents. So not EVERYONE jumps in a battleship for every occasion.  I personally fly the fastest, most maneuverable ship that can do the job (interceptors are FUN!)... but in PVP I can't imagine NOT using a battleship until the Bomber and Assault frigates come in. A normal frigate is one lucky hit away from death, and a cruiser can't do ANYTHING as well as a battleship can. That's the REAL problem: the battleship's main weakness (low speed and agility) isn't an issue. Cruisers just aren't enough faster and more maneuverable to be worth it.
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Panzer
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Posted - 2004.03.08 03:18:00 -
[40]
Stop thinking now, think ahead. BS are ruining the game somewhat. Yes megacyte and Zydrine prices would skyrocket. But when people become smart and after loosing so many BS, cruisers and frigates will become more common, making a lower demand for most minerals. BS should not be able to mine well.
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Voss Matsu
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Posted - 2004.03.08 03:40:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Voss Matsu on 08/03/2004 04:11:35
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Voss Matsu
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Posted - 2004.03.08 04:09:00 -
[42]
Quote:
First off batttleships shouldnt be able to mine they are called Battleships for a reason...
Cruiser: One of a class of warships of medium tonnage, designed for speed and long cruising radius
Frigate: A general purpose warship... used as an escort vessel
These are the dictionary definitions of some of the other classes of ships used in EVE to mine. The point that I am trying to make is that the Devs needed to classify the different types of ships in some way, and this is the way they chose.
If you go on the theory of Black 5 and others who have posted here, the only vessel that we could use to mine with would be an indy. Get over your preconceived notions of what these ships "should" be, and realize what they ARE.
The arguement that a battleship can only be used for battle is null and void, unless all ships are made unable to mine except the indy.
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Interferon
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Posted - 2004.03.08 06:19:00 -
[43]
what a RIDICULOUS and LUDICROUS idea!!! If you believe this, then you can only use a truck for a ranch, or a jeep for offroad, and Corvettes should NEVER see the median strip of a city lane where 30mph and school zones are common place. You know what, you're a entitled to your opinion, and thank the man upstairs that's ALL it is. Just play your game and let others play theirs.
You dont like the fact that a BS can be used for mining, Then dont use YOURS for that purpose. Go gate camp or "Zombify" secure space. But how dare you suggest what OTHERS can or cannot do with what they worked for?
See you in space.
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Omniwar
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Posted - 2004.03.08 06:26:00 -
[44]
Why should it bother anyone what people do in their battleship ?
Spawn of the Devil
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NoHawker
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Posted - 2004.03.08 06:39:00 -
[45]
Too many Battleships flying about, youÆd think their going out of style or something. I donÆt think CCP ever intended to have so many battleships in the universe but they didnÆt take certain things in good measure.
Getting ships should mostly be about connections and standings then ISK. For example in order to fly an Apocalypse you must be in very high regard and standings with the Empire. Once you acquire this very rare ship it will cost you weekly or monthly expenditures in cost of operations and payments toward the full value of the ship. Not every one can afford to maintain a Battleship or receive a battleship but Cruisers and especially frigates are with in most needs. Battleships should be earned by your standings and they should cost several billion ISK, this includes life time insurance. Penalty for losing a Battleship is a waiting period for a replacement and a small hit with your ratings.
Getting a Battleship is like going car shopping
What are you going to do?
I'm going to kill them all sir |
Xeris
|
Posted - 2004.03.08 06:51:00 -
[46]
Worst. Thread. Ever.
Too lazy to get my sig changed |
Imperishable
|
Posted - 2004.03.08 06:54:00 -
[47]
It bothers people to see all these battleships because the other ship types are useless, pretty much. Variety is a good thing, people want to fly different ships. And overall gameplay would be more interesting if you had to use different type of ships for different tasks.
Doesn't matter how it relates to real world.
Consider checkers - all pieces the same.
Consider chess - different pieces, each have a good role, if used properly.
Which game has more interesting gameplay?
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Omniwar
|
Posted - 2004.03.08 06:55:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Omniwar on 08/03/2004 07:00:30
Quote:
Getting ships should mostly be about connections and standings then ISK. For example in order to fly an Apocalypse you must be in very high regard and standings with the Empire. Once you acquire this very rare ship it will cost you weekly or monthly expenditures in cost of operations and payments toward the full value of the ship. Not every one can afford to maintain a Battleship or receive a battleship but Cruisers and especially frigates are with in most needs. Battleships should be earned by your standings and they should cost several billion ISK, this includes life time insurance. Penalty for losing a Battleship is a waiting period for a replacement and a small hit with your ratings.
Getting a Battleship is like going car shopping
So people who dont do missions gant fly an Apoc ?
You dont see people in real life who have hundreds of millions in the bank driving a Traktor.
Why should they have to do that in a game ?
Get real people, its game and shouldnt be limited who gets to do what.
I have bad sec status and cant enter some systems, that means I most likely cant do missions in empire so I cant ever fly an apoc even if I have the skills for it?
Not that I want to or would do missions.
Spawn of the Devil
|
Lansfear
|
Posted - 2004.03.08 06:58:00 -
[49]
Quote:
The only issue I have with battleships is the fact they can be unbelievable mining vessels. One solution I've seen on the boards several times before was to make Miners and Deep Core Mining Lasers operate only on a dedicated turret mount type, one that battleships and other vessels clearly dedicated for combat should not have.
You read the information on ships and you see how they're talked about as being new combat class ships for a particular race or wahtever, yet those same ships are often use almost exclusively for things they're not "intended" for. Might be nice if that could be fixed somehow.
I agree. Mining lasers use turret slots but infact are not turrets according to the Weapons Upgrade skill.
Creating a new catagoty in ships dedicated to mining lasers is a briliant idea. Just as long as the Dominix gets to keep two for mining.
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Janus Rebelknight
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Posted - 2004.03.08 07:13:00 -
[50]
Quote:
A normal frigate is one lucky hit away from death, and a cruiser can't do ANYTHING as well as a battleship can. That's the REAL problem: the battleship's main weakness (low speed and agility) isn't an issue. Cruisers just aren't enough faster and more maneuverable to be worth it.
If CCP are smart they will restore balance thru the next wave of ship technology where next tech cruisers can ice old tech battleships so they aren't worth flying anymore in the way that they are being flown now.
-----
Janus
"I'm not a stripper, I'm a miner." |
Skelator
|
Posted - 2004.03.08 07:27:00 -
[51]
Quote:
I have to admit that I was more than surprised to see the battleship's cargo capacity. I personally believe it should have less cargo space than a cruiser since a cruiser is intended as an all round ship and the battleship is meant to be, let's face it, an efficient ship designed for battle and nothing else.
I wouldn't mind, but there ARE industrial ships and mining cans and cargo containers and all sorts of things that can be used to mine better - you shouldn't be in a battleship just because you can be, just like you don't fly everywhere in an industial ship.
OR make a Ammo hold where only ammo and missles can be held in the hold of Battleships
They have us Surrounded again.. the Poor Bastards |
Nathan Zachary
|
Posted - 2004.03.08 08:16:00 -
[52]
Quote:
Too many Battleships flying about, youÆd think their going out of style or something. I donÆt think CCP ever intended to have so many battleships in the universe but they didnÆt take certain things in good measure.
Getting ships should mostly be about connections and standings then ISK. For example in order to fly an Apocalypse you must be in very high regard and standings with the Empire. Once you acquire this very rare ship it will cost you weekly or monthly expenditures in cost of operations and payments toward the full value of the ship. Not every one can afford to maintain a Battleship or receive a battleship but Cruisers and especially frigates are with in most needs. Battleships should be earned by your standings and they should cost several billion ISK, this includes life time insurance. Penalty for losing a Battleship is a waiting period for a replacement and a small hit with your ratings.
Getting a Battleship is like going car shopping
Reset ALL player hangars and items bays, reset ALL wallets and delete any floating cargo container (secure or not) from the game, putting everyone in the same position except skills, THEN you can talk about limiting something you have been able to profit from for many months.
...
...
...
dont like bships? get a kestrel gang and mob em up whenever you see them. else shut up....
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nether void
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Posted - 2004.03.08 08:22:00 -
[53]
This last post is plain stu.... Wipe. LOL Good one.
I agree, make battle ships for ... uh battle?
---------------------------
nether void - since '97 |
Alexander Rahl
|
Posted - 2004.03.08 08:25:00 -
[54]
Well all I can say is HA HA HA HA HA.
A battleship is used for whatever the fleet or ship commander wants it to do . Plain and simple. And as for someones statement regarding the cargo size in a battleship. You obviously are not aware of how much storage space exists on a BS in real when compared to a cruiser. Much bigger ship, Much bigger cargo space. Period.
Personally you might be right regarding the number of BS in the game but thats the way it is so adapt. My corp is currently at war and in most engagements we have, both sides have had people in frigates and cruisers instead of BS so they are not the be all and end all after all. (hmm not sure if that is bad english or not hehe).
Finally, until CCP get the bugs fixed I personally wouldnt ask them to do anything they might also screw up. Let them concentrate on sorting out all the problems that exist instead of giving them stupid ideas on changing the game. CCP get the tech 2 cruisers out asap will you.
----/ / /-----<[]>-----\ \ \----
Head of House Rahl
Warleader of the Rahl Clans
"Death and Glory, Honour with Courage, Fury and Vengeance"
- Chronicles of Rahl. |
Siddy
|
Posted - 2004.03.08 08:27:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Siddy on 08/03/2004 08:28:43
Me and Scalor Valentis are doing our best to keep BS population at control
but its dam hard to do that because thees days only 1 of 10 ataks on mining parties sucses
Reasons why we screw up
1) To many dam roids
2) They see us in local and go to station
3) They stacks 4 Warpcorestabiliser
4) They simpply log off before we are in range
5) They Lagg us whit all thous drones
6) Reasons 1,2,3,5 together
i think many pirat/BS huntter find it hard to kill anyone exept total AFK miner/n00b
its to dam safe out there and almost no risk miing in expensive BS
-------------------------------------------
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Nathan Zachary
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Posted - 2004.03.08 08:33:00 -
[56]
Quote:
This last post is plain stu.... Wipe. LOL Good one.
I agree, make battle ships for ... uh battle?
its not plain stu....
Why should newer player loose the ability to ern their millions in a bship while you ppl dont loose anything? You already got your Stack of Bships, got your millions and got the good stuff using Bships for the various possibilitys to get the good stuff...
This thread is about a bunch of wannabee elitists who just cant get over the fact that other ppl can get Bships too without spending half their lifetime doing it.
Youre just a greedy little pack of (censored).
So far noone of the "true" pvpers have complained about bships doing mining jobs and other "lesser" activities.
So unless youre willing to reset everyone to zero in matter of items, ships and money you better stfu, since you have NO right to limit newer players in their possibilitys just because "you dont like seeing bships mining".
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Frank Horrigan
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Posted - 2004.03.08 08:52:00 -
[57]
Quote:
Secondly Battleships are way to easy to aquire. Every noob can buy one after playing for a month.
I got my bs in janurary.. i started playing in setpember... easy? hell no. i sold all my posessions worth over 300k cept my maller and i dident even insure the thing...
well now is march and i have recently sold my armageddon and got myself an apoc it has no inshurence yet because well i got 6m and i dont want 50% inshurence i want 100%
well now i sit in my blackbird mining rare ore... well i havent latley bistot right outside and i dont feel like it. thinking of cancling eve for a month or 20 days... anyway im gonna insure my apoc and when i do im going to kill 0.0 rats with it. but for now empire rats suck cant make inshurnece money off that.. mining? well if i sit there 24/7 in my apoc (witch i will never ever do) i could make it in a while then there missions.. well i dont have 3 months to get a lvl 3 agent so forget that... i need to find a large c5l or a named L gun to make some cash to get inshurence on my apoc but i cant use it to do that anyway so im kinda in a stale mate...
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Bhaal
What has turned out better than expected?
Everything. Remember, we're from Iceland.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This i |
Slarti
|
Posted - 2004.03.08 09:06:00 -
[58]
Battleships can mine cos this is a mining sim......
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Siddy
|
Posted - 2004.03.08 09:10:00 -
[59]
Quote:
Quote:
Secondly Battleships are way to easy to aquire. Every noob can buy one after playing for a month.
I got my bs in janurary.. i started playing in setpember... easy? hell no. i sold all my posessions worth over 300k cept my maller and i dident even insure the thing...
well now is march and i have recently sold my armageddon and got myself an apoc it has no inshurence yet because well i got 6m and i dont want 50% inshurence i want 100%
well now i sit in my blackbird mining rare ore... well i havent latley bistot right outside and i dont feel like it. thinking of cancling eve for a month or 20 days... anyway im gonna insure my apoc and when i do im going to kill 0.0 rats with it. but for now empire rats suck cant make inshurnece money off that.. mining? well if i sit there 24/7 in my apoc (witch i will never ever do) i could make it in a while then there missions.. well i dont have 3 months to get a lvl 3 agent so forget that... i need to find a large c5l or a named L gun to make some cash to get inshurence on my apoc but i cant use it to do that anyway so im kinda in a stale mate...
Try killing stuff
Player BS's Drop good loot
-------------------------------------------
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Durandal
|
Posted - 2004.03.08 09:26:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Durandal on 08/03/2004 09:28:42
Quote:
Creating a new catagoty in ships dedicated to mining lasers is a briliant idea. Just as long as the Dominix gets to keep two for mining.
How would this solve anything exactly? I mean, if we get a mining ship how many mining turret slots are we going to have on it 6,7,8? And then how is this any different from having Battleships mining. In fact if this new mining class of ship was to be made more affordable than a battleship the situation in high sec systems would be even worse!! Unless the argument is that it is stupid having a battleship mining, creating a new class of ship is pointless, and even if this is the argument what do people care how others use their ships?
If you want to address the problem of empty belts in n00b systems - which I think needs to be done to allow new players to get a foothold in the game and keep the player base up - you need to ban battleships from mining in 0.5 and above. I have no idea if this is possible or not, but if there were to be a Concord response to BS mining then people would stop it fairly quickly. It would also push more people out of the "core" systems and into 0.4-0.1, and if at the same time sentry range was fixed to 55km in 0.4-0.1 and left at 150km in 0.5-1.0 this would also bring back the risk/reward balance.
If people want a mining class of ship because they are not into PvP I can understand this, but it should (imo) cost at least the equivalent of a tier 1 BS, have the same armour and shields as a tier 2 BS, have no drone capacity, 6/7/8 mining only turret slots, half the cargo capacity of an indy and also not be allowed in 0.5-1.0 space.
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!"
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Shaelin Corpius
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Posted - 2004.03.08 10:13:00 -
[61]
Well BS easy to get, and playing this game for one month you can get one. And your the exact person who lose their BS the first fight they have. Cause there are no skills to back up the ship.
All ships are useful, if you have good skills.
If you think a fleet of cruisers can't take on a few BS, well your wrong. It happens all the time.
Your skills suck = your ship sucks. No matta which one.
Your skills good = your ship good. No matta which one.
So what if noobs can buy them. They are supporting the economy, cause they gonna lose it really quick. Therefore they have to buy another one.
If your afraid of losing an expensive ship, don't fly the damn thing.
Cruiser are quite nice to have on the playing field anyway. Can lose a bunch of em an not worry bout it one bit.
As far as mining goes, who cares, were gonna be able to mine moons with platforms 24/7 in time to come.
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Wild Rho
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Posted - 2004.03.08 10:17:00 -
[62]
Quote:
I have to admit that I was more than surprised to see the battleship's cargo capacity. I personally believe it should have less cargo space than a cruiser since a cruiser is intended as an all round ship and the battleship is meant to be, let's face it, an efficient ship designed for battle and nothing else.
I wouldn't mind, but there ARE industrial ships and mining cans and cargo containers and all sorts of things that can be used to mine better - you shouldn't be in a battleship just because you can be, just like you don't fly everywhere in an industial ship.
If you were to reduce the cargo hold of the bs the devs need to introduce a seperate bay for ammo or else any ship that doesnt use lasers is going to suffer from constant ammo shortages simply becuase the ammo a bs carries is much larger.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it... |
Azziza Meekstone
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Posted - 2004.03.08 10:20:00 -
[63]
A "battleship" equipped with mining lasers is no longer a "battleship", it has become a "mining vessel".
Keep mining in those 100mill ships, preferrably in 0.4 or below.
*Theyre coming to take me away ! ho ho hi hi ha ha!!* |
Lagivre
|
Posted - 2004.03.08 13:06:00 -
[64]
Well the problem aint miners in bs's
before castor my main char was mining in 0.4 or .3 I think. in a cruiser. never tought he would set his feet into a bs. then all of a sudden a pk'r came into the belt and guess what after 20sec my main was toasted. another time he did tried to go after a scorpion while he was in a cruiser again. bam 30 secs after the cruiser was no more. tried to team up with other ppl to hunt these "noble" pirates. they warped in and out to avoid missiles. yes it was pre castor. and they waped to sfae spots when they did get a little damage in. the pirates I've seen only prey on smaller targets where is the honor in that? where is the challenge in shooting defensless miners?. I did challenge one to a cruiser vs cruiser battle but the pirate was too scared  it should be like.
Miner: I see you are a pk'r
pirate: yeah
Miner: gimme a sec to get me fitted for a battle
Pirat: okey m8
they meet at a moon fight to last man standing. then drink a quafe and move on.
Piratebear whiners grow up and face the music |
Buggsi
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Posted - 2004.03.08 13:25:00 -
[65]
Heres the thing.
Im currently working my way up to a cruiser. Can carry much more mining lasers then an indy or a frigate right?
Well when I get to Cruiser, ill be working my way up to battleship, then.....
When I get my battleship I bet im going to be gawking at the Titans, and working my way up to a titan. No doubt the titan will be able to mine faster then a battleship.
Its pretty much all on a ever increasing scale of your ability to mine. There is really no limit to what I can do, my only limit is time.
In other games, your either a miner, or your a fighter, or your a tailor, or you can be a multi-class, or a jack-of-all-trades kind of dude (never an expert in one field).
In this game you can be everything, so thats the problem right there. You can spend 5 years upgrading your characters skills and probably never run out. You can be a, GOD GOD GOD GOd god *echos*.
Im curious as to why the Devs of this game decided to break with hundreds of years of gaming tradition. :)
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Severe McCald
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Posted - 2004.03.08 13:34:00 -
[66]
It is pointless to suggest that BSs should not be able to mine. It isn't going to change.
However, noob systems need protecting from BS miners. So why not make it an offence for BS to target roids in .9 and 1.0 systems.
Yes, this will result in a certain number of accidental deaths of BSs being targeted by Concord, but only if the BS pilot is targeting near roids in high sec space, which he shouldn't be doing (very often) anyway. Incidentally, this would bring in a frisson of fear for BS pilots fighting wars in high sec space .
Fear teh roids!
Severe
And Moses was content to dwell with the man:and he gave Moses Zipporah his daughter. And she bare him a son, and he called his name Gershom:for he said, I have been a stranger in a strange land. |
Nathan Zachary
|
Posted - 2004.03.08 16:01:00 -
[67]
Quote:
Im curious as to why the Devs of this game decided to break with hundreds of years of gaming tradition. :)
Only because its tradition does not imply its GOOD.
In Fact, it kind off sucks if you need to level up another char just because you want to do something different for a while (example: youre normaly a fighter char, but want to try out healer type gameplay, usuly you need to make a new char for this reason and level it up.
I like the possibility to do what i want when i want without the need to switch to another char.
|
Wild Rho
|
Posted - 2004.03.08 18:48:00 -
[68]
Quote:
Well the problem aint miners in bs's
before castor my main char was mining in 0.4 or .3 I think. in a cruiser. never tought he would set his feet into a bs. then all of a sudden a pk'r came into the belt and guess what after 20sec my main was toasted. another time he did tried to go after a scorpion while he was in a cruiser again. bam 30 secs after the cruiser was no more. tried to team up with other ppl to hunt these "noble" pirates. they warped in and out to avoid missiles. yes it was pre castor. and they waped to sfae spots when they did get a little damage in. the pirates I've seen only prey on smaller targets where is the honor in that? where is the challenge in shooting defensless miners?. I did challenge one to a cruiser vs cruiser battle but the pirate was too scared it should be like.
Miner: I see you are a pk'r
pirate: yeah
Miner: gimme a sec to get me fitted for a battle
Pirat: okey m8
they meet at a moon fight to last man standing. then drink a quafe and move on.
Piratebear whiners grow up and face the music
That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard of. If your a miner and dont like being attacked by pirates then get somone to cover you. If your too lazy to do that then though luck.
Pirates want rich targets that can be taken down with minimal risk, if you want a duel of honour then go and set up a tournament. Out in low sec space its kill or be killed, get used to it and stop expecting people to play the way you think they should.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it... |
Thyro
|
Posted - 2004.03.08 18:57:00 -
[69]
Quote:
I have to admit that I was more than surprised to see the battleship's cargo capacity. I personally believe it should have less cargo space than a cruiser since a cruiser is intended as an all round ship and the battleship is meant to be, let's face it, an efficient ship designed for battle and nothing else.
I wouldn't mind, but there ARE industrial ships and mining cans and cargo containers and all sorts of things that can be used to mine better - you shouldn't be in a battleship just because you can be, just like you don't fly everywhere in an industial ship.
Would be nice to see a BS with less cargo space than a Frig... and if that was true ... would be nice to see where to carry the ammo and missiles... eheheh... probably in ur back
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Aldelphius
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Posted - 2004.03.08 19:43:00 -
[70]
Quote:
A normal frigate is one lucky hit away from death, and a cruiser can't do ANYTHING as well as a battleship can. That's the REAL problem: the battleship's main weakness (low speed and agility) isn't an issue. Cruisers just aren't enough faster and more maneuverable to be worth it.
obviously youve never mined in deep 0.0. no one in their right mind would mine in a bs without a super force, the risk/reward factors is too great. all it takes is to loose 1 bs and the entire days mining is shot. unless pre aligned and mwd equiped, a bs is far, far too cumbersome to escape npc rats if they spawn and target it.
the problem is, as said before, bs mining in 1.0 and 0.9 space. its supposed to be n00b ish space, and its not like theres not 600 0.7-0.5 empire systems to mine out. some people are just lazy and dont want to venture out to new systems to mine. and thats their loss.
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Ishkur
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Posted - 2004.03.08 20:27:00 -
[71]
I just got a Megathron this weekend, and whoa! Can that baby mine!
Here's my thoughts on this:
First: There really isn't anything for a "mining ship" right now. My last ship, a Thorax, was pretty good. I mean, sure, 7 Miner IIs is better than 5, but going back to a Thorax wouldn't be the end of the world.
Except that a Thorax really kind of sucks for "mining" per se. Surely, it is a good ship, but if I were *designing* a ship from scratch for mining, I wouldn't make a Thorax.
I'd give it lots of power, high CPU, big cargo space, low powergrid, lots of turrets, and decent drone space. Max out the high slots (turrets only), 1 or 2 med slots, and 2 or 3 low slots.
Where your whines fall apart is that there isn't a mining class in the game right now.
*switch back to real life*
If, for example, they only knew how to build three ships: Container ships, Battleships, Sailboats, and Yachts, what do you think people would use for large commercial fishing?
Container ships = no way, what a mess that would be. You can't fit a large enough crew on board in comfortable quarters (= turret bays) to make it useful.
Sailboats = unlikely, because they just don't have the range or the staying power, and they also have low crew (= turret bays).
Yachts are a bit closer, they're bigger, have more cargo, tad faster, more agile, but not quite good for large-scale fishing.
Battleships hold ungodly numbers of people (=turret bays) and can stay at sea for very long times. These would clearly make the best large-scale fishing ships (i.e., deep sea stuff) because they are more stable, larger, bigger, and hold more.
All of that said, I have a hard time seeing how someone in a BS is *hurting* you... I realize it seems a bit odd to see a "battle"ship out mining... but what is the alternative?
One of the things I like most about EVE is that there aren't silly restrictions on stuff. I would hate to see CCP go and add a "mining laser only" thing to the game. That just feels out of place with the general direction that EVE goes in, of being open and free.
I think noticing that everyone mines in Battleships should say to CCP that if they don't like it, they need to provide an honest alternative to combat that problem.
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Ishkur
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Posted - 2004.03.08 20:32:00 -
[72]
A simple fix to the 1.0-0.9-0.8 BS mining problem is this:
Spread out the fields, and make the roids smaller. Put bigger, fatter, juicier ores in lower security space.
You mention "risk vs. reward" so let's talk a bit about this:
(Note: I don't mine in 0.9 or 1.0 space, as a matter of principle, but I can see why some do)
Why should I risk life and limb mining VELDSPAR in 0.3 space when I can mine it in 1.0 space? If I need Tritanium, why the hell would I mine VELDSPAR out in dangerous space?!
So here's how to fix it:
Make the Veldspars in 1.0 space very tiny... 500-1000 units of ore in each one, MAX.
This allows new players to mine there, while a BS pilot would be annoyed to hell with the locking and mining and unlocking each time. And spread them out. I certainly HATE having to move much in that big old thing, whereas a frigate is designed for those maneuvers.
Introduce some new "higher level" ores that yield more of the low level "stuff" that we need. Example:
Ishkurite: Contains 1000 Tritanium and 2000 Pyerite when refined.
That way, you can put "low level ores" in low security space, but make it so that mining Veldspar in 0.2 might actually be something people would *want* to do.
I realize this can have larger market ramifications... But it is something to think about.
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Belzavior
|
Posted - 2004.03.08 20:39:00 -
[73]
1.) They aren't going to stop people from fitting miners to their apocs and other battleships. Might as well accept the fact. Having a 100m indy with 8 mining slots isn't much of an answer as that ship won't even require teamwork to stripmine belts fast.
2.) They will probably be introducing more mining based ships as the game progresses and make CPU reqs for tech 3+ miners too high to fit an apoc with 3 of them. Best bet is that there will be a mining class BS or INDY that will have lots of turrets and give reduction in CPU (elite mining frigs get around 90% cpu reduction from DCM) needs for mining turrets. Using this method they'll be able to restrict these ships to more mining type behavior by not haveing high hp and no offensive or defensive abilities.
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Dasani
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Posted - 2004.03.08 20:54:00 -
[74]
How often does someone have to beat this dead horse subject?
Battleships shouldn't mine blah blah blah.
Simply fact is miners will use the best ship they can to get the job done.
Is there too many BSs in the game? Probably. But that cat's been out of the bag for a long time.
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Lagivre
|
Posted - 2004.03.08 21:12:00 -
[75]
[
That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard of. If your a miner and dont like being attacked by pirates then get somone to cover you. If your too lazy to do that then though luck.
Pirates want rich targets that can be taken down with minimal risk, if you want a duel of honour then go and set up a tournament. Out in low sec space its kill or be killed, get used to it and stop expecting people to play the way you think they should.
well thepirates I see run when theres ppl covering so no they want easy prey my friend. they aint up for some real pvp then they run
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KrapYl
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Posted - 2004.03.08 22:14:00 -
[76]
dp you have any idea how much the price of low end minerals would raise ?
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matt
|
Posted - 2004.03.08 22:48:00 -
[77]
Quote:
Battleships are ruining Eve.
First off batttleships shouldnt be able to mine they are called Battleships for a reason...You want a crazy miner?? Ask CCP to make you an industrial ship specific for minning.
CCP has made the battleship the "do it all ship". And because of that its taken away all purpose for using any other ships for anything.
thats a bit stupid
cruiser and frigs can take out battleships if theres a few of them
Secondly Battleships are way to easy to aquire. Every noob can buy one after playing for a month. Seeing a battlleship should be like "wow a battleships!, thats one mean beast" But quite frankly they're more common than frigates and its pathetic.
this would bring frigates and cruiser into the game and bring more pvp because ppl wont be so affraid to lose such an expensive ship. So it will prevent the formation of more carebears.
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Denathis Arabar
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Posted - 2004.03.08 22:51:00 -
[78]
I think battleships should be able to mine, i dont do it but i see nothing wrong with it. Its part of the freedom of eve which makes it cool, imagine its an old retired battleship refitted with miners and cargo bays (as they are) its weaker then a battleship dedicated to fighing and slower most likely. So when you pirates meet it its easier to blow up no?
The only thing i disagree with is the amount of battleships, which im sure ccp are not too happy about either, the fact is we have to live with it. Nothing can be done about it as it would not be fair on the newer players to make them more expensive and not fair on the older players to remove them.
I feel there should be an upkeep cost to battleships with a crew or a charge while you are flying it. Say a million isk per 12 hours online time ect. (obviously would need research into a good cost lol) Then we would see the smaller ships used more often and the newer players are not punished as they can still get a bship as easy as us.
You have to look to real life, the reason for the lack of battleships/aircraft carriers now adays is prohibitive costs to run them. So to minimise them in eve would need a similare theme.
Otherwise its battleships for all !!!!
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Qinoly
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Posted - 2004.03.08 23:36:00 -
[79]
Apoc, 7 miner 2's, 1 vapor, 8 harvesters + 1 ogre, mining lvl 5, astro level 4.
Don't you dare to make my machine unable to mine..
Imagine mining in 0.0 with an indy-like mining ship with minimal defences. Oh thats right, the original poster has never been in 0.0.
nm
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Ris Dnalor
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Posted - 2004.03.09 00:20:00 -
[80]
Quote:
umm
Quote:
Secondly Battleships are way to easy to aquire. Every noob can buy one after playing for a month.
this would bring frigates and cruiser into the game and bring more pvp because ppl wont be so affraid to lose such an expensive ship.
Make up your mind please..are they easy to get or expensive?
You're misquoting him. He said [ I paraphrase ].. that the battleships should be more expensive so that people will be more afraid to lose them.
tralala
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Jump Drive Operation / Rank 5 / SP: 1280000 of 1280000
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Chrimera
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Posted - 2004.03.09 00:31:00 -
[81]
Been playing Eve since August and I got my first BS, a Armageddon about 3 to 4 weeks ago, solely for the purpose of mining. I run a corp with 3 members and we are manufactor's. How the hell else do we mine enough minerals to build enough goods to sell?
Oh, so we have to join one of the mega corps? I would rather close my account down than do that. I worked hard for my bs and I totally fail to see how anyone could be in a bs within a month, thats rubbish in my opinion.
Battleships aren't the problem, the problem is that the small corps need Battleships to be viable in eve, period. The problem with pvp, coming up against BS's can be resolved with good team work and co-ordination with your attacks.
I love eve, yeah it has a few bugs, but I have never played a game thats 100% right. I love the game how it is. I just wish people wouldn't force change down other peoples throats because "THEY" want it that way.
HUBRIS TECHNOLOGIES, SHAPING THE FUTURE |
Jayad
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Posted - 2004.03.09 01:51:00 -
[82]
Many posts on many changes so solve:
TOO MANY BATTLESHIPS
What ever need to be done, everyone should agree on change.
It will never stop, when Titans are in it will start all over again, resulting in even more striped belts within the empires and noobs feeling totally disheartened. Every ship class needs a firm place, and should not be treated as a level class.
Level class systems in MMOs result in game death, as the veteran player base dominates.
So i really dont care what IS done, i just want new players to carry more importance within large corporations.
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aim9x
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Posted - 2004.03.09 03:54:00 -
[83]
First off its a game GET OVER IT. Sounds lika bunch of whiners who have lost their ship to someone who was using a BS. If you think a BS is supposed to be used strictly for combat than use it for that. If you dont like the BS than dont buy one. Get a ship for the purpose for which you are going to use it for. BS can be a very effective weapon to have if you are going into a region of space that you know you are going to be attacked. If not by NPCs than other players.
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Thorion Mortisfilius
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Posted - 2004.03.09 04:26:00 -
[84]
I have only been playing for a month and am no where near owning a battleship. Though I am working towards it and yes I am going to use it for mining.
I might not be eve-experienced enough to see the problem with this. I agree mining with a battleship in a 0.8 or above is not only ruining the game for new players, it's almost the equivalent of a pirate attacking an Indy in 1.0 space for minerals. Reading between the lines of a majority of these posts and I feel the reasoning is that miners aren't easy targets while in BSs and thats their gripe. They want easy kills while a miner is mining and they want easy kills while the miner has to transport his ores - just in case he missed him while he was mining.
Everybody here is griping that everybody is trying to push their playing style on everyone else. Pirates believe battleships are only for battle so they can outgun miners or so miners are forced to pay for escort services. But when miners figure a slight advantage the whole universe is going to unravel because (may I say it) they got to work for their kills.
Don't get me wrong I think PvP is a economically viable commodity and is needed in dynamic game-play, but that doesn't mean everybody has to be either a hardcore PKer or a victim.
Before anybody tries to dispute my theories by saying that merchant ships have always needed a military convoy to protect them. That's a crock. Plus most military escorts were provided free of charge by the government that was going to profit the most by the shipment and didn't come out of the merchants pocket. Secondly, when piracy was rampant back in the time of the tall ships. Most merchant ships carried more firepower than any pirate ever dreamed of. Their sole advantage was fast and maneuverable ships. So to say a BS doesn't belong in the hands of a miner just for the sake of an easy kill is BULL.
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Jequan
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Posted - 2004.03.09 09:28:00 -
[85]
I agree partly. Atm battleships can do everything a cruiser can but better. They are much more expensive and should be better but it think there should be still a reason to use cruisers.
HAving the kestrel still being able cruise missiles is a good thing though. It makes a frigate in combat useful still.
With the new scout class frigates we'll see more useful frigates soon.
If they'd make cruiser somewhat more useful it would be all fine. (Or battleships more rare)
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Jayad
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Posted - 2004.03.09 11:09:00 -
[86]
aim9x,
I have been complaining about this problem for a while. My eve status is of an experianced/rich player with access to a host of resources. However i certainly grap every change to fly something else other than a bs. I mine with Battleships:
Hell i can mine crokite and bistot on my own if i want and i do, however i know this is bad for the game. Mining on your own in deap space is a bad thing, kills team play.
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dutchfreak
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Posted - 2004.03.09 11:17:00 -
[87]
First of all, i could not be bothered to read all of it, sorry.
To be honest i see trhe biggest problem in the game is simple... its us,
we make a corporation, gang eachother, and help the other out.
That's how i got my dominix a week ago (after 5 months of playing or so)
Now, with a decent corporation, and teamwork, indeed, it is np getting a bs
I just calculated a bity, and i have to repay 35mil, which takes me 17 hours of non stop jaspet mining...
17 hours... that aint much innit? YES IT F*CKIN IS! on your own.
THe reason there are so many BS is that their are so many people, helping ech other out.
If u want to restrick BS use... i should make the minerals requirements 10 times this, so that big corps will have to so some efford for em... but then again u nerf small corporation who have to work long and hard for em.
I smell alot of: hey i got this quick... the rest must also have done it as quick as me.
... sorry i didn't
I didnt get a BS in a month, and i had, and still have to, work hard for it.
Come on guys, its a game for crying out loud, stop nerving it...
i can understand that u are ****ed, u worked hard, got a BS, got all exited, looked around and thought like: f*ck, im not the only guy around here flying a megathron?
Get over it... more peeps should use BS, more peeps should make trhemselves at least 3, so they can use the rest for PvP... cause that is wat u want right?
Im getting a bit sick of reading the forums with people giving idea's out, and doing it with an additude like: see, i have the fix fot this, dont i rule?
No! u dont, let CCP handle it, and give THEM the idea's.
Not to us please
sod it, im ****ed, im gonna go hunt in my new BS with my new Large hybrids, i worked for em, can i please use my BS for the things that i want? for crying out loud!
------------------------
Remember, my child: Without innocence the cross is only iron,
hope is only an illusion & Ocean Soul's nothing but a name...
The Child bless thee & keep thee forever
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Slithereen
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Posted - 2004.03.09 11:27:00 -
[88]
The problem with this game is that it lacks variety in money sinks. Ships and more ships, bigger ships, faster ships, are the only biggest money sinks this game has, and as a way of earning money. You have this linear progression in the ship money sink from small to bigger to biggest, and that's still the main path around.
Elite Frigates is moving the status binge from battleships to nifty new frigs, but it aint enough.
What this game needs is another money sink that also offers an alternative way of making money without extensively using a ship.
Let players build stations and other deployable structures, and let players buy shares and stocks on existing NPC stations. When people invest in real estate and structures, they invest less in ships. Structures like stations provide another alternative in earning money from fees, rent and tolls.
_______________________________________________
"Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies,
"Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy.
"Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
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Nelix Trist
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Posted - 2004.03.09 12:01:00 -
[89]
dont know what this is but a battleship is what you make it just change there name!
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Bad A*s Pilot / Rank 5 / SP: 1,000,000 of 1,300,000 |
Phoenix ShadowDancer
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Posted - 2004.03.09 14:00:00 -
[90]
Just as a though you can add a requirment for battleships as a ranking of 5 or higher in the goverment body that the ship comes from. When it is destroyed you loose a little bit of it. This would make them very hard and you would really have to work at it to get.
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