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What to do with minerals from loot

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Buzdo Tomari Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.11.27 13:57:00 - [1] I am running missions, and I always try to loot and salvage afterwards with my little destroyer. From salvaged items I make rigs and this seems to be profitable compared to selling the salvage on the market, and I also sell better named items. But for most of the loot I find that they are worth more reprocessed than sold, which leads me to the question. Is it more profitable to just sell the minerals or should I build something? I found some items which may be better than selling the minerals outright, but I would need Production efficiency V and a researched blueprint, both of which take time. And so, I'm not sure if it's worth investing the time getting Production efficiency V which I could spend training other skills. On the other hand, I only need to train it once and then I'm set (more or less). Any thoughts? What do you do with your loot and/or minerals?
Yaar Podshipnik Gallente Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2007.11.27 14:12:00 - [2] Well, in my corp you can just sell the minerals to corp. Also you can just put all your junk to be refined at perfect effciency and then sold. If you sell on market beware of many "scammers" on market who put big buy orders at ridiculsly low prices. So my advice is - join a good corp :)
Blazing Fire Interstellar Operations Incorporated Black-Out	Posted - 2007.11.27 14:34:00 - [3] I usually save them and build a ship for my own later. Blazing Fire CEO Interstellar Operations Incorporated Corp web site Recruitment Looking for experienced players Looking for new EVE players Services [Service] Killboard hosting [Service] Forum hosting [Service] Web site hosting [Service] Obelisk for rent [Service] Alliance Creation
Ulstan	Posted - 2007.11.27 15:55:00 - [4] A while ago I ran the numbers and discovered that even without well researched BP's and with only a level or two in Production Efficiency, it was slightly cheaper to manufacture my own ammo than to buy it.
Angel DeMorphis Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.27 16:54:00 - [5] Originally by: Ulstan A while ago I ran the numbers and discovered that even without well researched BP's and with only a level or two in Production Efficiency, it was slightly cheaper to manufacture my own ammo than to buy it. ^ This And when I end up getting too many minerals stockpiled, I either sell them to my corp, or give them to a corp mate who will make a ship for me with them.
Ulesi FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.28 03:48:00 - [6] Build a battleship from a 2M bpc from Jita...insure it and then self destruct it. 80M profit. Originally by: Puupuu dude... your face...
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2007.11.28 05:18:00 - [7] Originally by: Ulesi Build a battleship from a 2M bpc from Jita...insure it and then self destruct it. 80M profit. Pwett groans... LOUDLY _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Falka Lakadaka Gallente BakaLakadaka Street	Posted - 2007.11.28 13:49:00 - [8] Originally by: Buzdo Tomari I am running missions, and I always try to loot and salvage afterwards with my little destroyer. From salvaged items I make rigs and this seems to be profitable compared to selling the salvage on the market, and I also sell better named items. But for most of the loot I find that they are worth more reprocessed than sold, which leads me to the question. Is it more profitable to just sell the minerals or should I build something? I found some items which may be better than selling the minerals outright, but I would need Production efficiency V and a researched blueprint, both of which take time. And so, I'm not sure if it's worth investing the time getting Production efficiency V which I could spend training other skills. On the other hand, I only need to train it once and then I'm set (more or less). Any thoughts? What do you do with your loot and/or minerals? If you're making rigs without Production Efficiency V you're ripping yourself off. Even 1 wasted melted capacitor console costs you half a million ISK. As to the minerals sell them on the market if you're not using them. If you don't need the ISK right away, then stockpile until you get a good price - now is a good time to sell Tritanium, last month it was pyerite. Follow the cycles to decide when to sell. Cheers Falka ________________________________________ Check out the Guides Sticky for answers to many questions
Dominious Gallente New Light Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.28 14:14:00 - [9] You can save your minerals so if/when you decide to get into the manufacturing market you can build yourself something nice .
Angel DeMorphis Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.28 15:05:00 - [10] Originally by: Falka Lakadaka If you're making rigs without Production Efficiency V you're ripping yourself off. Even 1 wasted melted capacitor console costs you half a million ISK. Unless you're only making rigs with relatively cheap components. And as long as you can make them with materials that if sold would be less than the worth of the rig, if you sold or bought it, you're not losing money or ripping yourself off.
Angel DeMorphis Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.28 15:11:00 - [11] Originally by: Ulesi Build a battleship from a 2M bpc from Jita...insure it and then self destruct it. 80M profit. No. Just no. If doing this makes your minerals more valuable than just selling them, then sell the battleship, don't insure and destruct it. That's like shooting yourself in the foot and thinking you made money because insurance paid for most of the medical bills. Let's think of a hypothetical situation here: Cost: 2M BPC, 50 Mil worth of minerals (or whatever), 30 Mil insurance. Destroy ship and get return of 100 Mil. Net profit: 18 Mil (if that would even give a profit). Or, Cost: 2M BPC, 50 Mil worth of minerals. Sell on market for 90 Mil. Net Profit: 38 Mil. Let me see if I can figure out which way will give me more profit....
Kaya Divine Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.11.28 15:31:00 - [12] If you are not dirty rich, and you don`t need money so desperate...don`t sell ships, you will need them..sooner or later. I consulted moralists to learn how to appear, philosophers to find out what to think and novelists to see what I could get away with and in the end it all came down to one principle:win or die.
Angel DeMorphis Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.28 15:41:00 - [13] Originally by: Kaya Divine If you are not dirty rich, and you don`t need money so desperate...don`t sell ships, you will need them..sooner or later. Well, yeah, that, too. Just don't insure them and blow them up. Prices aren't that bad yet.
Gaius Sejanus Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.11.28 18:33:00 - [14] How about: Sell 50M worth of minerals for 50M. Profit: 50M Blowing up ships for insurance is almost never a smart thing to do.
Ulesi FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.29 04:37:00 - [15] Originally by: Angel DeMorphis Originally by: Ulesi Build a battleship from a 2M bpc from Jita...insure it and then self destruct it. 80M profit. No. Just no. If doing this makes your minerals more valuable than just selling them, then sell the battleship, don't insure and destruct it. That's like shooting yourself in the foot and thinking you made money because insurance paid for most of the medical bills. Let's think of a hypothetical situation here: Cost: 2M BPC, 50 Mil worth of minerals (or whatever), 30 Mil insurance. Destroy ship and get return of 100 Mil. Net profit: 18 Mil (if that would even give a profit). I'm just saying the minerals you get from loot are actually "free". So that 50M in minerals is mute. And I was just suggesting it if he wants some quick cash from it. Originally by: Puupuu dude... your face...
Hozac	Posted - 2007.11.29 07:17:00 - [16] Originally by: Gaius Sejanus How about: Sell 50M worth of minerals for 50M. Profit: 50M I see you're no master of economics...
Helen Hunts Gallente Red Dragon Mining inc Red Dragon Industries	Posted - 2007.11.29 07:40:00 - [17] Modules and minerals aren't free. They can always be sold, used for manufacture, something. The cost is whatever else you could have done with them. Although if you still insist that they are free....Can I have your 'free' stuff? Hmm...the only real 'free'-ish things in the game are noobships and the fittings that come with. _______________________________ Mine da rocks, make more ships. Pop da rats, make more rigs. Sell da gear, make more money. Any Questions?
Buzdo Tomari Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.11.29 10:04:00 - [18] OK, so thanks for the answers and just to comment on a few things. Some rigs I'm building are expensive, some are not, but what can I do? Production efficiency V is on my to do list, but not at the top (character is only two months old, had a big break between the trial and actual playing). There are just too many other things to train. So I make the rigs aware that I'm not profiting as much as I could, but I do make a profit compared to just selling the salvage. I have also put some blueprints for research. As for the minerals, I don't consider them to be free. I was thinking of building ships with the minerals (e.g. destroyers) but it seems that the profit is too small to pay off the BPO + research in a resonable amount of time. This is actually what made me start the thread. I am definitely not filthy rich, so I wanted some input. It seems that the minerals will have to wait for better skills.
Gaius Sejanus Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.11.29 20:46:00 - [19] By all means then, oh economic great one, explain how, given the prior examples, I'm wrong. 50M Minerals + 2M BPC + production costs = 80M battleship = 28-ish M Profit. But selling the minerals directly somehow doesn't count? Do tell.
Alaris Nightshadow Caldari Jester's Retribution	Posted - 2007.11.29 21:41:00 - [20] Originally by: Gaius Sejanus By all means then, oh economic great one, explain how, given the prior examples, I'm wrong. 50M Minerals + 2M BPC + production costs = 80M battleship = 28-ish M Profit. But selling the minerals directly somehow doesn't count? Do tell. the 28-ish mill profit is in addition to the mineral worth. you are actually spending 2M + production cost to turn 50M of minerals into 78M of profit on a ship. ----------------------------------------------- "I am a Mining God!!! but a PvP noob"
Angel DeMorphis Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.29 21:51:00 - [21] Edited by: Angel DeMorphis on 29/11/2007 21:51:42 Originally by: Gaius Sejanus By all means then, oh economic great one, explain how, given the prior examples, I'm wrong. 50M Minerals + 2M BPC + production costs = 80M battleship = 28-ish M Profit. But selling the minerals directly somehow doesn't count? Do tell. Here is a good definition of the word profit: The amount received for a commodity or service in excess of the original cost. Here is a good definition of salary: a fixed compensation periodically paid to a person for regular work or services. The minerals you own is a result of spending time (work) to shoot down ships, gather loot, and reprocess it. The worth of the minerals, then, falls under the definition of a salary, or payment for work done. Now you have a commodity worth 50 Mil. If you take those 50 Mil worth of minerals to turn it into and 80 Mil worth ship, you can view those minerals as a cost. You could have turned the 50 Mil worth of minerals into 50 Mil ISK. You instead paid 50 Mil worth of minerals and a 2 Mil BPC to get an 80 Mil ship. Therefore, the "profit" of this venture is the ISK received in excess of the original cost (minerals and BPC).
Angel DeMorphis Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.29 21:54:00 - [22] Edited by: Angel DeMorphis on 29/11/2007 21:54:34 Originally by: Alaris Nightshadow Originally by: Gaius Sejanus By all means then, oh economic great one, explain how, given the prior examples, I'm wrong. 50M Minerals + 2M BPC + production costs = 80M battleship = 28-ish M Profit. But selling the minerals directly somehow doesn't count? Do tell. the 28-ish mill profit is in addition to the mineral worth. you are actually spending 2M + production cost to turn 50M of minerals into 78M of profit on a ship. No, the 80 Mil ship does not have 78 Mil profit. The profit from building a ship is: profit = ISK upon sale (assumed as 80 Mil ISK in our example) - costs (50 Mil minerals + 2 Mil BPC + production costs) Therefore, profit ~= 28 Mil. Selling the minerals you have from looting for ISK is just changing an asset from solid to liquid.
Luka Lavandi Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.29 22:58:00 - [23] Keeping in mind the t1 ship market in hisec is quite tight on profit, I'd prefer to sell minerals instead of that building-headache. -------------------------------------------- Just flying to the nearest mall --------------------------------------------
Angel DeMorphis Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.30 14:30:00 - [24] Originally by: Luka Lavandi Keeping in mind the t1 ship market in hisec is quite tight on profit, I'd prefer to sell minerals instead of that building-headache. Yeah, and that's perfectly acceptable, too. But just don't build them and blow them up for insurance. It's not more profitable. :S
Dinslan Minmatar	Posted - 2007.11.30 14:50:00 - [25] I don't bother reprocessing and transport it to the nearest trade hub. Some of those module that you reprocess are worth lots of money. I generally get as much out of loot as out of salvage ( which I sell too ). I also only sell as much as I can be bothered to, if I have 2-3 lots of loot the individaul items sometimes stack saving me time on selling them. Generally I won't got to the trade hub with less than 5000m3 of stuff, but it is better to fill a hauler. This process takes 2 hours or so but it has the advantage of learning what will sell and can easily broken down into small time chunks unlike missions. IMO Rigs aren't worth making unless you are making them for yourself. The profit margin ( for me anyway ) is so small it isn't worth the extra hassle.
Boomhaur Minmatar	Posted - 2007.11.30 15:42:00 - [26] Personally I keep the loot and put it in the Other container in my hanger to use later. After all this time im able to make any ship build for any ship I want with named modules, which comes in handy when im in a situation where I need something and I need it NOW. This is what happens to the majority of my loot except for the more expensive loot I picked up which gets thrown into another container labled Sell, for obvious purposes (salvage stuff also end up there). So I end up with a bunch of good cheap modules and I have enough to equip entire fleets of ships, while still making a decent amount of money off loot. May not be the way of the best/fastest profit but being a pack rat does have it's advantages. Definition of Minmatar, former slaves who built ships from duct tape and scraps of rusted metal, who rose up against their master's and emerged victorious. And further proof the Ammar suck.
Panch0Villa Caldari AFK	Posted - 2007.11.30 17:37:00 - [27] Originally by: Yaar Podshipnik Well, in my corp you can just sell the minerals to corp. Also you can just put all your junk to be refined at perfect effciency and then sold. If you sell on market beware of many "scammers" on market who put big buy orders at ridiculsly low prices. So my advice is - join a good corp :) These "scammers" are also called traders. Don't sell to the buy orders, compete with the sell orders! Also, regarding ammo, it is definitely true that you can easily make your own ammo for cheaper than people will sell it, even with an ME0 bpo. This applies specifically where you are far away from a trade hub, and have to choose between paying 5-10% markup on local goods, or going 10 jumps away to get cheaper stuff. It's such a small margin no one really cares, but ammo makes you money in high volumes. Re vera, potas bene.
Seraphll Friends of Xanu	Posted - 2007.11.30 17:52:00 - [28] What I always do with mission loot is keep everything I might use (only 8) then shred everything else for ammo, mods, and ships! With the salvage, definitely build parts if you can.
Kell Braugh Caldari letter of marque Plunder-Bears	Posted - 2007.11.30 19:50:00 - [29] Originally by: Ulesi Build a battleship from a 2M bpc from Jita...insure it and then self destruct it. 80M profit. Sounds like a true BOB tactic... evil prevails when good men do nothing.
Gaius Sejanus Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.11.30 20:25:00 - [30] Originally by: Alaris Nightshadow the 28-ish mill profit is in addition to the mineral worth. you are actually spending 2M + production cost to turn 50M of minerals into 78M of profit on a ship. One way your wallet increases by 88M, the other way your wallet increases by 50M. The intermediate steps don't actually matter a whole lot. It's the end result we're looking at here. So...why is selling the minerals directly not profit? Building the ship might be MORE profitable (of course presuming you get a decent ME print, and have production efficiency 5 yourself), but selling the minerals is hardly not profit. Either way, blowing the ship up for insurance is foolish.

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